BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%

Subject: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 10 Nov 11 - 05:36 PM

Let us please start the new discussion here without reference to past internal disputes.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,TIA - PM
Date: 10 Nov 11 - 02:52 PM

From OccupyWallStreet.org:

{Note that this is not an official statement since we don't have officials. It is the opinion of one, but well spoken and widely endorsed and acted upon}

"The Occupy Movement has stated that it is Non-Violent. While this has remained overwhelmingly true, there is, undeniably, a violent element that is using OWS as a place to hide. Smashed windows, paint on buildings, and even horrifically violent stories of rape are coming out of the encampments.

The truth of it is that once any kind of violent element emerges from the movement, the movement ceases to be about stopping corruption and greed and becomes a movement about stopping violence. This simply must be the case. People will look at the violence within our movement and point to it in order to damn us. Therefore, when violence happens from the movement, we must pause and deal with it before we do anything else.

What this means is that there must be an expectation of self enforcement. We have little difficulty standing in front of a police barricade and shouting "Shame Shame Shame" to Police officers who overstep their bounds, and abuse their power. What we haven't come to realize is that we too have power that we can abuse, and some of us do abuse that power.

The moment a person engages in a violent act, they are no longer part of the movement. They are part of the problem. Even more then that, they are the most important problem. If you have gathered in order to protest a banking institution, or a government official, that protest ceases and you should begin protesting against their violent act, instantly. You should be accepting that the protest is capable of changing in this regard, as internal violence is even more dangerous than external violence.

If you see someone spraying paint on the side of a building, you should stop and begin crying "Shame Shame Shame" at them. Whip out those video cameras. Condemn their Violence. Do not allow them to hide in our numbers.

Go even farther. Give the videos of the individuals who do violence to the Police. Report the violence to the media outlets directly. Show those institutions how hard we are working to destroy violence internally. Build a trust between yourselves and those who enforce and report on these things.


Go even farther. Publicly condemn all violence done by your movement, and by others to your movement. This should be topic one in all General Assemblies; to create a statement that you can give to all media outlets condemning the violence done. This should be done every single time a violent act happens that is even remotely connected to the movement. We must show the world that we are entirely intolerant of violence, in all forms. We must show the world that we are more then willing to work with them in order to shine a light on our own internal violence.

Go Even Farther. Set up a working group to educate people about what Non-Violence is. Create a Library filled with works that show Gandhi and Martin Luther King. Make us the primary source of Non-Violent Education.

This movement cannot become perceived as a violent movement. That should be the number one goal, before anything else. Violence is catalyzing and shocking. We need to respond to it with equal fervour, while remaining entirely Non-Violent. We must be able to stand our ground and say to those who detract "We have worked hard with Police Officials and Media outlets to destroy our own violence. We have released statement after statement condemning each individual act of violence. We have turned violent offenders over to Police Officials, and made those people known to all. What more would you like?"

If we are to say we are Non-Violent, we must fight to prove it."

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 10 Nov 11 - 05:42 PM

I do not agree with everything in the above. I would whip out my video phone and give the material to the police. I would not read Ghandi or MLK when the problem is basically vandalism. I also would not go for the public condemnation. There are assholes everywhere. Best to deal with them quietly.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Bobert
Date: 10 Nov 11 - 05:47 PM

Thanks, JtS, for re-posting this great post by TIA... It kinda went down the drain with the pulling of the plug on the other thread... And is is very important because Boss Hog is ready use his vast wealth and ownership of BIG MEDIA to cripple OWS in any manner...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 10 Nov 11 - 05:50 PM

I think it has to be discussed. Obviously if OWS doesn't define its self, others will.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Don Firth
Date: 10 Nov 11 - 06:01 PM

And by the way, to blow a little clean air through the room and forestall any recurrences of earlier claims, the ridiculous attempt to equate OWS demonstrations with KKK rallies, as far as I can trace back, emanated from Brit Hume of Fox News Service. Need I say more?

This, I think, is fairly good evidence that OWS has the 1% and its lackeys trembling in their boots.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 11 Nov 11 - 02:04 PM

Don, you are not telling the truth about what I said.

Thanks for changing it to something you CAN argue with.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: gnu
Date: 11 Nov 11 - 02:20 PM

I see the next thread on the list is the one about the amazing speech by the war verteran. I hope it is shown at the rallies and all over the world.

BTW... 6 posts in and we get inane crap? WTF is up with you? He didn't post anything about you or about anything you posted. He could NOT have done so because you hadn't even posted to the thread yet. Ya know, when you post inane crap like that, EVERYONE who reads it shakes their heads and says "What an asshole."... more or less.

If I had the power, I would turf your ass outta here for being such a dick. Smarten the fuck up eh???!!!

Yeah I am in a bad mood. Guess why... g'wan... take a stab at it.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 11 Nov 11 - 02:23 PM

Bruce, He is constantly doing that to those who present truth, as opposed to what he spews forth, from wanting to be relevant...then he argues against what HE SAYS you said! Get hip to it...then his devotee, Bobert, out of frantic need for convenient 'back up' chimes in..and the bottom line is 'Vote Democratic'..regardless of how, wrong they are!..nor how fucked up the candidate is.

Now, I've saved them from having to froth their false, corrupted crap!

....................you're welcome!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 11 Nov 11 - 02:25 PM

Its funny. I was brought up and educated to treat any vandalism and crime that way. We have all been conditioned to look the other way. Not to report crimes. Not demand justice. Not to trust justice. Not to trust government.

Certainly, OWS cannot demand accountability from the bankers if they do not demand it from each other. As with the violence being prevented, the first step for holding the banks to account is for witnesses to speak up.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 11 Nov 11 - 02:31 PM

NOTHING beardedbruce said was mentioned in Don's post. If he was not defending bruce, he was at least taking the heat off bruce by blaming Brit Hume.

Can we please leave it at that?

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 11 Nov 11 - 02:51 PM

My last post in the earlier thread- about the opening of this thread...


Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: beardedbruce
Date: 10 Nov 11 - 02:55 PM

Good post, Guest TIA. I agree with all of it.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: gnu
Date: 11 Nov 11 - 03:06 PM

Fuck me! WHAT is it you children do NOT understand? Leave it ALONE. Are youse brain dead? Are youse just fuckin stunned as me arse?

Read my lips... bb and gfs... get some manners and fuck off.

If you wanna contribute, great. If youse just wanna be complete assholes... read my lips.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 11 Nov 11 - 03:17 PM

Bruce. That is one of the reasons I chose that as the starting point of the new conversation. It seems to be a mature stance on the issue with which many of us can agree. I gave specifics of my opinion. Would you care to go the same.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Barb'ry
Date: 11 Nov 11 - 03:28 PM

Please don't let this discussion go down the pan as well. It is a genuinely interesting debate, particularly as those of us on 'the other side of the pond' get to hear more about what is really going on in America... so let's debate and not get another thread closed!

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: gnu
Date: 11 Nov 11 - 03:52 PM

Barb'ry... that's what I was sayin, albeit in a manner I thought might be understood by the posters I was addressing.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: akenaton
Date: 11 Nov 11 - 04:31 PM

It's all a joke...right?
The whole Western world is about to implode and you guys are fighting about a bunch of old hippys, students and the Tea Party!!!

Where is the unity?....nowhere to be seen.

You are all still wedded to your partisan politics...In most "liberal" minds, OWS is simply an antidote to the Tea Party; and I recognise these protesters, they have been seen on every left wing protest campaign since Adam was a boy.
I was even one of them in my "activist" days

Recognise what is happening please, this is not a game, not cricket, we are about to have the life squeezed out of us by the capitalist system.......no regulation nor General Assemblies of the converted can save us.

Time to get serious.....Forget your manufactured political differences and start connecting with each other....start by explaining to our young folks why we failed them, why we bought into the system and sold their future.....Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Nov 11 - 04:34 PM

There are people who don't agree with the movement so they don't want it to be a civil discussion. They want the topic to be about them and they know that throwing stink bombs into the thread will disrupt the conversation. That's what they're doing and we recognize the strategy as their main technique.

Ignore their trolling and discuss the topic as if they weren't here.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: gnu
Date: 11 Nov 11 - 04:43 PM

Ake... gee whiz... I seldom agree with you or your ways that you "say it" but I do this time to an extent.

Let us not forget that peaceful protests in the US "recently" lead to a victory by the masses in the US. Unfortunately, there were four dead in Ohio before things got changed. When the bullets flew, the rich backed off and for good reason. I wish the OWS protesters would sing Ohio as a warning to the bastards that subjugate them and their brothers and sisters around the world.

Maybe if The Shat did his interpretation of Young's song at a rally? Sorry... couldn't resist that one. >;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: gnu
Date: 11 Nov 11 - 04:50 PM

For those who don't know what happened at Kent State University... google it.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 11 Nov 11 - 04:57 PM

I don't agree with any of you except for the tactics proposed by SRS, even then I think we will do better to maturely engage than ignore. The approach proposed in the opening of this thread are, I think, most effective in dealing with vandals or trolls.

This is not 1969. Certainly protestors and police have learned from those lessons. G20 and other protestors have been infiltrated by police and provocateurs even in nominally civilized places like Quebec, Vancouver and Seattle.

I think the kids doing this protesting are doing a brilliant job of shining light on the problems and opening up the conversation. I agree with SRS because she seems to be saying that it is our responsibility not to let the conversation devolve into "he said vs he said" over inane comparisons to bad actors of the past.

Maybe we should endeavor to steer the conversation away from metaphor and toward what is happening now.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 11 Nov 11 - 05:00 PM

Here is a side topic which may deserve its own thread but could certainly be discussed on this thread.

Tuesday's elections. Has the Rupublican/Tea Party tide turned? The Republican anti-union efforts were defeated in Ohio. Democrats were elected in Kentucky. How much of this is due to the OWS movement?

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: akenaton
Date: 11 Nov 11 - 05:02 PM

I knew you weren't a lost cause gnu.......:0)

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Greg F.
Date: 11 Nov 11 - 05:03 PM

Has the Rupublican/Tea Party tide turned?

In a word: No. Good proportion of the bible-beating "conservative"[sic] boobocracy still loves 'em.

Next question. (But this probably should, as you suggest, be a separate thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 11 Nov 11 - 05:05 PM

Greg F, Unwavering Republicans are about 25% of the electorate. The tide rolls back and forth over the center of the middle.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: gnu
Date: 11 Nov 11 - 05:06 PM

I still ain't sure about you ake. >;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 11 Nov 11 - 05:07 PM

We could talk about how or if OWS has taken the media's attention from the Tea Party manufactured deficit scare and put it on theft, mismanagement and corruption where it belongs.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 11 Nov 11 - 05:15 PM

That's exactly it Jack. OWS has changed the national conversation.
Look back one year, and see how many newspaper articles or TV talk shows spent any time on wealth inequality in the USA. Not much at all.
Now we've got people talking about it. If nobody even talks about the real problems, they will never get fixed.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 11 Nov 11 - 05:22 PM

The rich were winning the PR war. Silly accusations of "Class Warfare" were repeated in the press like holy writ.

Now, that has decreased, a little.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Nov 11 - 10:28 PM

If we are speaking of the stuff that the rich can control, yes, they are winning the PR battle... They own 100% of Big Media down to the ads that run...

They don't own the internet... Yet...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 12 Nov 11 - 12:15 AM

gnu: "Fuck me! WHAT is it you children do NOT understand? Leave it ALONE. Are youse brain dead? Are youse just fuckin stunned as me arse?
Read my lips... bb and gfs... get some manners and fuck off.
If you wanna contribute, great. If youse just wanna be complete assholes... read my lips."

Manners????
I take it then if someone doesn't agree with the direction of a movement, that you like..that they don't have manners???????

That's rude!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: John P
Date: 12 Nov 11 - 07:36 PM

One of the things I like about the OWS movement is the short, easy to remember, and damning slogan. "We are the 99%". Everyone who isn't rich or Republican can feel that resonate as they watch their savings dwindle, their kids not finding jobs, and their peers at work being downsized.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: gnu
Date: 12 Nov 11 - 09:04 PM

GfS... keep diggin... let's see how deep ya can shovel shit on yerself.

Once more... ya got anything ta contribute to the discussion besides crap and spew?

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Nov 11 - 09:16 PM

Yo, gn-ze...

Think Tea Partier here... She hates the government because it is the government and not because it has been corrupted by the rich...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 12 Nov 11 - 09:24 PM

Leave her alone Gnu, ain't it obvious she was born on a raft? ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: gnu
Date: 12 Nov 11 - 09:39 PM

I would love to leave it alone and I will... GfS actually qoted me saying those EXACT words. Problem is, GfS didn't contribute... just shovelled shit.

And, now, I shall say gnightgnu, as I often do after I have made my point, supported (it is to laugh, if it wasn't so sad) by those that I have pointed out. I really don't think I can contribute any more than those who will carry on this thread. I just hope this thread is not closed by trolls being nasty... even tho it began early on.

Have fun.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Nov 11 - 09:45 PM

She's clueless, Gn-ze... Leave her the heck alone...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 13 Nov 11 - 01:17 AM

99% Time Person of the Year?

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: akenaton
Date: 13 Nov 11 - 03:32 AM

Do you guys really live in a bubble, or have you never heard of "trickle down" economics?

The system depends on greed and inequality to drive itself.

Watch my lips! It is impossible to regulate Global Capitalism, or any other form of Capitalism in todays world, given a population with our expectations,

The 99% are as guilty and complicit as the 1%

I'm a builder, and I watched in disbelief as everyone hocked themselves up to the neck to scrabble up yhe property ladder.....and in most cases it wasn't stupidity, It was pure greed, the chance to make a few dollars and always at the expense of the REAL poor.

I'm afaid we suffer from an infection wich wont respond to aspirin.
Which is the remedy being prescribed here.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Sawzaw
Date: 13 Nov 11 - 07:59 AM

MSNBC:

A woman wielding an "exacto razor blade attached to a pen or pencil-like object" slashed one officer as police tried to keep marchers at the Embarcadero near Broadway from blocking the intersection where light rail tracks are located.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,999
Date: 13 Nov 11 - 09:47 AM

Uh huh. And having mentioned that, what IS your point?

###############################################

To the rest of you: it's fairly obvious that a few people do their best to have threads of this nature shut down. The longer you engage with them the more vituperative the thread becomes. IGNORE them, completely. They will then stand out like the lone nudists at a football game. Getting angry back just makes you wear the shit they're slinging. IGNORE THEM!

You have stuff to post about the good being done by the 99ers, post it. People ranting and you ranting back means you're losing the plot. IGNORE THEM. Ignore trhem, and their posts will be deleted, not the entire thread closed. WTF cares what they say? WAKE UP ffs.

imo

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Greg F.
Date: 13 Nov 11 - 10:47 AM

Hmmm- whaddaya s'pose a "pencil-like object" IS, Bruce?

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Sawzaw
Date: 13 Nov 11 - 10:56 AM

Bankers Looting the Country While Obama Turns a Blind Eye

Banks took all that bailout money and didn't increase lending, because Congress didn't add even minimal strings to the cash.

And we've certainly noticed that the president has pulled in $15.6 million from Wall Street for his own campaign and the Democratic party. That's why we Occupy!

    The largest banks are larger than they were when Obama took office and are nearing the level of profits they were making before the depths of the financial crisis in 2008, according to government data.

    Wall Street firms   independent companies and the securities-trading arms of banks are doing even better. They earned more in the first 2 1/2 years of the Obama administration than they did during the eight years of the George W. Bush administration, industry data show.

      Behind this turnaround, in significant measure, are government policies that helped the financial sector avert collapse and then gave financial firms huge benefits on the path to recovery. For example, the federal government invested hundreds of billions of taxpayer dollars in banks low-cost money that the firms used for high-yielding investments on which they made big profits.

    "There’s a very popular conception out there that the bailout was done with a tremendous amount of firepower and focus on saving the largest Wall Street institutions but with very little regard for Main Street," said Neil Barofsky, the former federal watchdog for the Troubled Assets Relief Program, or TARP, the $700 billion fund used to bail out banks. "That’s actually a very accurate description of what happened."

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 13 Nov 11 - 11:00 AM

There is a certain profound stupidity in the right wing opposition to the movement. A woman trips on a step, a minor incident, here and there and they try to make us think it is armed insurrection.

A little perspective and balance is in order. But the so called right in this country is not known for that.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,999
Date: 13 Nov 11 - 11:22 AM

I have one of those objects, Greg. It's got a handle that is gold-coloured and a blade on it like #11 in the following link. I used it for fine cutting of leather, cloth, skin (when I get the odd splinter), paper and a few other things. The blade is very sharp and about 1 1/4" in length.

http://www.tedpella.com/dissect_html/549-9-scalpels.jpg

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Sawzaw
Date: 13 Nov 11 - 11:38 AM

"the right wing opposition to the movement"

What makes you think the right wing is opposed to the movement?

Have you ever asked anybody or investigated on your own?

Could it be that the assumtpion comes from the movement itself?

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Greg F.
Date: 13 Nov 11 - 11:39 AM

They earned more in the first 2 1/2 years of the Obama administration than they did during the eight years of the George W. Bush administration, industry data show.

Probably true!(Source??) And all due to the policies and legislation of the BuShites, preceeded by the Reaganoids, wch, with an obstructionist Republican cadre in both branches of the legislature, the Obama Administration has so far been unable to reverse.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 13 Nov 11 - 02:32 PM

>>What makes you think the right wing is opposed to the movement?

Have you ever asked anybody or investigated on your own?<<<

Yes. I have.

Part of my investigation is a known "right" wing reactionary posting an insignificant tidbit attributed to MSNBC.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Stringsinger
Date: 13 Nov 11 - 03:14 PM

The homophobic football coach gets canned at Penn State and the students riot and throw rocks at police and overturn cars. They get off easy.

OWS resists peacefully and get the crap beaten out of them by cops.

What's wrong with this picture?

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Don Firth
Date: 13 Nov 11 - 03:32 PM

"Do you guys really live in a bubble, or have you never heard of "trickle down" economics?"

What century to you live in, Ake? Who here has NOT heard of "trickle down" economics? That was Reagan's big economic slogan. Even AT THE TIME, people were saying, "If you actually do feel something trickling down, that's because there's someone standing on a huge pile of money and he's peeing on your head!"

Don't ask silly questions!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Nov 11 - 03:33 PM

"What's wrong with this picture?"

I think I'm immune to the picture, Frank, having watched it with minor variations for most of my life. SSDD

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,999
Date: 13 Nov 11 - 03:34 PM

That guest was me, sorry.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 14 Nov 11 - 12:06 AM

A definition of the occupy movement.

We met Delthea a couple of weeks ago. It is possible that she was referring to me when she says that people say the movement needs goals.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: akenaton
Date: 14 Nov 11 - 02:52 AM

Yes Jack, thats more or less what I think about the issue, and when the lady says we "must fix the system"......I get the idea that she means "fix it GOOD!!"

Excellent, but to have any chance of it working, we have to understand that it will take a long time and that there will be lots of ideological battles along the way.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 15 Nov 11 - 02:35 AM

Glad to see they moved in at daybreak to remove these creeps. I would prefer if they taught them a Kent State lesson.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 15 Nov 11 - 07:25 AM

Sadly, there will be a Kent State moent somewhere.
Then all Hell breaks loose.
We are exhorting all to remain non-violent.
But the 1% are using their minions to incite violence.
Then they can discredit the entire movement.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Bobert
Date: 15 Nov 11 - 09:18 AM

It is disgusting that these evictions are coming in the dark of night... Very sinister and very KKKish...

What, is America so ashamed of what it is becoming that it has to use these tactics???

Shame on America... Shame!!!

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Mrrzy
Date: 15 Nov 11 - 10:41 AM

It's not the 1% here that are inciting violence, it's the homeless drunks. One night, 3 arrests and two teenage girls taken to hospital before they could be taken (further) advantage of... we hae asked for more police until we can outnumber the drunks, but then the city responded by giving us a night-club license, and the cops are heavily present (which we like) and anybody too drunk to leave has to sleep in the park with the rest of us!

Don't feed the trolls, Liz and John!

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 15 Nov 11 - 10:48 AM

Yes Mrrzy, we have a (a little bit) of the same. But we have also seen people who are clearly provocateurs posing as OWS supporters...holding ridiculous signs and saying absurd things trying to incite problems.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 15 Nov 11 - 10:52 AM

check out this video of "protestors" later seen in uniform:

infiltrators

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Stringsinger
Date: 15 Nov 11 - 12:31 PM

"Bluesman" is a misnomer. True blues musicians would have been with the Patriots
at Zucotti (Liberty) Park. Obviously, Bluesman is not an African-American musician.
He is probably one of these phony white boys who claims to play the blues by aping blues musicians without understanding of the social and emotional elements that go into
interpreting the blues. Or, he might be an agent provacateur.

What was done at the Park was a trashing of democracy and inhibiting of free speech
by the corrupted NYPD and Blumberg.

State owned corporatocracy or corporate owned State is fascism. What we saw in New York
was a form of fascism by storm troopers.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Mrrzy
Date: 15 Nov 11 - 12:33 PM

Jackbooted thugs, I believe, is the term?

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 15 Nov 11 - 12:34 PM

Keep your eyes on the the prize folks, ignore the peanut gallery. His comments do not hurt the cause.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 15 Nov 11 - 12:42 PM

What happened to the 5,000 volume People's Library?
If they tossed them (or maybe even burned them) wouldn't that be symbolic as hell?

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Stringsinger
Date: 15 Nov 11 - 12:43 PM

Rosie Gray, a writer for The Village Voice, recounted telling a police officer, "I'm press!" She said the officer responded, "Not tonight."

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: akenaton
Date: 15 Nov 11 - 12:51 PM

Like I said, you want an overnight revolution you got to be prepared to lose everything that the system has bribed you with....and possibly your life.

Somehow, I don't think the US or UK people are quite ready for that.

We are not desperate enough.

Better go for unity and play the long game.
Look at your fellow humans not as political enemies, examine their views, find common ground and take it from there.
Social conservatism often makes more sense than ideological "liberalism"

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Stringsinger
Date: 15 Nov 11 - 01:03 PM

The battle lines have been drawn. There is no common ground between the rich and the poor. Social conservatism is neither social or conservative. The issues will have to be resolved not by violence but by peaceful participation. Americans can't afford to hide their heads in the sand any more.

The police are working for the corporations and not to "protect and serve".

You can see this in Syria, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, Israel, Egypt and now the USA.
The time for honest dialogue has past. Now, it's action.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Stringsinger
Date: 15 Nov 11 - 01:10 PM

Blumberg many have done the country a service by mobilizing more Patriots to take their position with Occupy Wall Street Movement.

It's being lead by young people who are being penalized by the exorbitant fees on their education in the so-called richest country in the world.

it's disgraceful that the richest country in the world can't have a national health care.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Stringsinger
Date: 15 Nov 11 - 02:08 PM

There is the canard that the Park in NYC was closed due to health issues. There were medical teams on staff there.

It was an excuse by Blumberg to flex his muscles. He is linked to the Koch Brothers.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 15 Nov 11 - 02:41 PM

One might look a bit more closely at the recall election movements in Ohio and Wisconsin to see how an effective populist movement can accomplish something.
Less dramatic than camping out with drums, but a good deal more effective.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 15 Nov 11 - 02:46 PM

Find common ground? You've got to be kidding. Look where we are after 30+ years of compromising. That counts as the long game doesn't it? Or do you think we should put up with 300 years of serfdom while we wait for the 1% to come around on there own. Screw that (peacefully of course).

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 15 Nov 11 - 02:50 PM

I just heard from a friend on-site...apparently the library was destroyed (thrown in a dump truck and hauled away) by NYPD.

Here is the catalogue from the People's Library:

catalogue

http://www.librarything.com/catalog.php?view=OWSLibrary&shelf=list

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 15 Nov 11 - 02:53 PM

2:44 a.m. NYPD destroys OWS Library. 5,554 donated books in dumpster.
All in the name of "sanitation".
Mental sanitation perhaps?
Heil!

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: akenaton
Date: 15 Nov 11 - 03:03 PM

Sorry Frank, I feel that you and I view this system in much the same way, but experience tells me that we are in the minority by a large percentage.

Just look at the progressives who post here....all in thrall to the Dems in the US or the Labour Party in UK.

They are not the stuff of which revolutions are made, still too many who believe they have something to lose.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,999
Date: 15 Nov 11 - 04:05 PM

Which states allow for recall elections?


Alaska
Kansas
New Jersey
Arizona
Louisiana
North Dakota
California
Michigan
Oregon
Colorado
Minnesota
Rhode Island
Georgia
Montana
Washington
Idaho
Nevada
Wisconsin
Illinois

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 15 Nov 11 - 04:12 PM

Many still just do not get it. OWS is decidedly *not* a Democratic Party support rally. Awfully easy to characterize it that way on ones butt from thousands of km away. Easy, but incorrect.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,999
Date: 15 Nov 11 - 04:30 PM

TIA, many people, mostly Democrats, want OWS to be a party support group. Keeps it in the family so to speak. Thing is, there are almost as many Democrat millionaires in Congress as Republican. So, I ask for about time ten, what changes with a Democrat victory?

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,999
Date: 15 Nov 11 - 06:26 PM

THIS is what 'Bluesman' advocates.

The kids in that photo montage died on May 4, 1970, while peacefully protesting.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 15 Nov 11 - 06:49 PM

Neither party should "own" OWS---it should go out and co-opt the Dems, much as the Tea Party co-opted the Repubs.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: gnu
Date: 15 Nov 11 - 07:01 PM

"5,554 donated books" I googled it... 5000 books? Doesn't look like that little shelter could hold 5000 books. But, even 500 in the thrash seems awful.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Lox
Date: 15 Nov 11 - 08:04 PM

If OWS is pro democratic party, why did it spring up under a democratic party president? Why is it protesting against the policies of a Democratic president?

What nonsense some people talk.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Bobert
Date: 15 Nov 11 - 08:08 PM

Wow...

I got censored for calling Bluesman a Nazi but it's okay for him to advocate killing protesters???

Uh huh???

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Greg F.
Date: 15 Nov 11 - 08:27 PM

He's not a Nazi, Bobert- just a blowhard fuckwitted asshole.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Don Firth
Date: 15 Nov 11 - 08:29 PM

"Just look at the progressives who post here....all in thrall to the Dems in the US or the Labour Party in UK."

In thrall to the Dems? A rash assumption on your part, Ake. Many of we progressives are fed up with the Democratic Party, which is WHY the Occupy Wall Street movement in New York and in some 900+ other cities around the U.S.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 15 Nov 11 - 09:52 PM

Don't Google it! Follow the Goddam link. The 5554 books in the People's Library were catalogued. The record is there. follow the MFin link!
5554 books into the dumpster.
Heil NYPD.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Bobert
Date: 15 Nov 11 - 09:56 PM

Yeah, TIA...

Some really messed up things going down...

Boss Hog has had enough of this and so he's going to try to squish it... He can, you know... He can use his BIG MEDIA to spread as much propaganda as in needed... Forget FOX... They are who they are... Look out for CBS, NBC and ABC... They are dangerous... Very denagerous...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 15 Nov 11 - 09:58 PM

Ake blows shitwind. I do not know what his agenda is, but he just doesn't get it.
Gnu I respect, but this one needs to get some non-Google facts.
Bluesman is a (thanks Greg F.) Fuckwit.
Forget the Kent State Moment.
What government destroys >5000 books?
Wake the fuck up people.
I am exhorting all around me to make it peaceful, but the revolution is *on*!
Okay naysayers - let's hear you defend the wanton destruction of books.
Anyone?
Anyone?
Come on, you can do it.
Anyone?







(Yes, I am pissed. I am a teacher. My Mom was a librarian. This is personal *and* political.)

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 15 Nov 11 - 10:00 PM

Cross posted. Keep drummin' Bobert. We will shake hands on top of the barricade.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 15 Nov 11 - 10:25 PM

There is one particular simile that is universally (particularly here on mudcat) reviled as "over the top" and inflammatory and the last refuge of those without cogent arguments.

I will simply ask everyone whether there is a difference between burning thousands of books and dumping thousands of books into a wet dumpster.

Please explain the difference. Consequentialist and Categorical arguments are acceptable. Proceed please....

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,999
Date: 15 Nov 11 - 10:36 PM

"I will simply ask everyone whether there is a difference between burning thousands of books and dumping thousands of books into a wet dumpster."

The former will require that the fire department be called out.

#######################################

I understand now why the earlier post I made in which I referred to Bluesman as Mudcat's #1 shithead was deleted. It was the bad word I used. Sorry about that.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 15 Nov 11 - 11:51 PM

I can see that many have been baited into name calling and insulting buy the comments of GUEST,bluesman and others. In a thread stared with a strategy for eliminating violence, this is not as good sign. Be worthy of the movement, apologize to the people you have insulted. Cherish their right to their opinions. Talk about the goals instead of dissing the tactics.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 16 Nov 11 - 12:09 AM

Well the good news is, the rubbish has now been cleared off the streets. The police handled it well. So all your comments, all your huffing and blowing amounted to nothing yet again. Job well done.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 16 Nov 11 - 12:13 AM

Are you bluesman the registered member?

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 16 Nov 11 - 12:29 AM

Mind your own business.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 16 Nov 11 - 12:32 AM

Hi Moderators, We seem to have a rude, non member impersonating a member. It is just my opinion, but thorough deletion and a blocking of an IP address seems to be in order.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Don Firth
Date: 16 Nov 11 - 12:35 AM

GUEST,Bluesman, the movement started by OWS is just getting under way. It's only just BEGINNING.

Get used to it. It will be around for awhile.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Don Firth
Date: 16 Nov 11 - 12:39 AM

And here's a thought to conjure with, Bluesman:   if there are any incidents like the Kent State incident, the OWS movement will multiply exponentially.

Think about THAT!

Be careful what you wish for.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 16 Nov 11 - 12:45 AM

Yes, here in the UK we hear similar boasts. I actually like to see such protests, I enjoy watching the police getting ripped into them. You tend to find the mouthpieces who stand in front of the cameras making idle boasts and threats aren't as big when a policeman with a baton is standing in front of him on a one to one.

The media should be banned from covering such events and the police should use full force, take no prisoners guys.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Don Firth
Date: 16 Nov 11 - 01:38 AM

You're all heart!

You've never been to a protest demonstration, have you. Probably better avoid them, then. You might get hit by a stray truth.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 16 Nov 11 - 01:50 AM

I endorse law and order. I expect to see trouble makers removed off the streets swiftly. I agree that those within financial institutions who make profits for investors should be rewarded.

No point in talking about it, they have been removed off the streets, so job done, game over.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 16 Nov 11 - 01:50 AM

100

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 16 Nov 11 - 02:19 AM

As many of you know, I've 'mentioned' to you, about the OWS crowd missing the mark...and about GOVERNMENT corruption...both parties...and it seems to ruffle some feathers......, that there is a 'charade' going on here....and you ARE NOT BEING Represented...but ripped off!....
I was going to post another post, I posted before about this, which warns of the violence, that could be coming, as a result of OWS...and the folks, doing it, were being 'used'....and NOT fully identifying the problem.... Gosh, what did I know????


..funny how those backing the OWS, are the same ones, smokescreening!

..Like I've said, relentlessly, as Little Hawk, has posted, as well...


Well, well, well!!!!!

GfS

like I've said, repeatedly........you've been deceived, and suckered!!!!

Anybody waking up yet!!!

Chalk up another one for 'GfS'!!

Remember the 'Boxer' analogy????

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 16 Nov 11 - 02:28 AM

Oh, and Don...I just scrolled down and read your last posts.....once again, you've been betting on the wrong horse!...especially, in light of the 'new' reports!!!!!!!!!!!!

Smilin' and a winkin'....

GfS

P.S....I don't know how many times, I have to keep reminding some of you, that I,m on YOUR side!

Fuck!..Play music!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,999
Date: 16 Nov 11 - 02:33 AM

Rough start to the day in Colorado, uh?

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 16 Nov 11 - 02:35 AM

I'm smooth.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Greg F.
Date: 16 Nov 11 - 08:23 AM

I endorse law and order.

Like Dick Nixon did, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 16 Nov 11 - 11:50 AM

Mayor Bloomberg deserves a vote of thanx from the OWs for providing their biggest PR boost in a month. I was particularly impressed by his banning reporters from the park-clearing activities and his cavalier treatment of the books.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,999
Date: 16 Nov 11 - 12:00 PM

And the case is still before the court. I understand there was a stay issued by a judge that is being appealed by NYC. The stay was issued before the eviction.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Don Firth
Date: 16 Nov 11 - 01:46 PM

The actions of New York's mayor seem to have spurred OWS activity in other cities. It appears that the forcible suppression that Bluesman and GfS favor is highly counterproductive.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 16 Nov 11 - 02:19 PM

One of the most revealing incidents occurred when, after having previously arrested protesters for impeding traffic on the Brooklyn
Bridge, the City shut down the busy Queensboro bridge for a weekend in order to---hear this--allow a film crew to film a Batman sequel.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Greg F.
Date: 16 Nov 11 - 03:03 PM

Bloomberg always has been and always will be a pompous ass. Make that a millionaire pompous ass.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: gnu
Date: 16 Nov 11 - 04:05 PM

I just googled the OWS library and saw the "garage tent" and thought... "Where is the library?' on accounta I can't see 5000+ books being in it. I was KINDA asking a question in a poor manner... and I also stated that destroying even 500 books was a crime.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 16 Nov 11 - 04:06 PM

The real 99% is getting tired of this protester nonsense.
Time to clean out the parks so that they can once more be used by parents and their children.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 16 Nov 11 - 04:08 PM

The real 99%, includes the protestors and the asses who think they are better than the protestors.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 16 Nov 11 - 05:16 PM

I'm a parent that has been in the parks with two of my children.
And there are lots of other parents and children there.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Nov 11 - 05:39 PM

The latest email message from Dennis Kucinich:

Dear Friends,

At 1:00 AM Tuesday night, after two months of peaceful protest against the people and institutions that wrecked our economy, police officers under direct orders from the Mayor of New York City raided Occupy Wall Street and evicted protestors from Zuccotti Park.

The First Amendment of the Constitution guarantees all of us - including these protestors - the right to peacefully assemble and express our views. But over the past week, similar nighttime raids executed by mayors in Oakland, Portland and Atlanta have cast a dangerous shadow over our liberties.

Today, I am asking you to join me in standing with Occupy protests everywhere and demanding that the Mayors of America respect the First Amendment and the rights of our citizens to assemble and express themselves. Click here to sign the petition and demand that the mayors of America respect the Constitution and the rights of Occupy Wall Street to exist.

Right now, corporations are spending unlimited amounts of money to influence our election system under the guise of free speech. Yet when people like you and me gather in parks across America to protest this broken system, we are deemed a threat by local mayors.

Stand with me, Occupy Wall Street and all Americans who wish to defend our disappearing liberties in demanding that America's mayors respect the Constitution and rights guaranteed to all Americans in the First Amendment. Sign the petition today.

With respect,

Dennis

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: katlaughing
Date: 16 Nov 11 - 05:49 PM

LH, I was just about to post that, too. Here's a link to the PETITION which simply says:

PROTECT THE FIRST AMMENDMENT.

I/We stand with Occupy Wall Street and all Americans who wish to defend our disappearing liberties in demanding that the Mayors of America respect the First Amendment and the rights of our citizens to assemble and express themselves.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Don Firth
Date: 16 Nov 11 - 08:02 PM

Thanks, Little Hawk, for posting the letter, and Kat, for posting the link.

I just signed it.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Suffet
Date: 16 Nov 11 - 11:39 PM

Greetings from New York:

Marilyn and I left Zuccotti Park nine hours before the NYPD invaded, and we will not have a chance to return until tomorrow (Thursday, Nov. 17). But watching the events on live streaming and watching the news reports afterwards got me to thinking that the Occupy Wall Street movement hasn't seen serious really repression yet, certainly not the kind that was visited upon the Civil Rights movement in the southern USA during the 1950s and 1960s.

However -- and this is a big HOWEVER -- if and when OWS ever becomes a serious threat to the economic and political order, those in power will come at us with everything they've got, and I don't mean with only batons, pepper spray, and plastic handcuffs. Instead they will...

• Freeze our bank accounts, seize our property, audit our taxes, and hit us with judgements, fines and civil penalties.

• Harass us with lawsuits, subpoenas, TROs, and injunctions; haul us before grand juries and Congressional committees; get judges to issue gag orders and cite us for contempt.

• Indict and prosecute us under various state and federal criminal laws, including for conspiracy and/or criminal solicitation, since nearly any conduct can be considered a felony even if no actual criminal act ever takes place.

• Confiscate or revoke our passports; put our names on the no-fly list.

• Take away our children on grounds of neglect, abuse, or endangerment, including claiming that we are "indoctrinating" them.

• Get FISA warrants to tap our phones, bug our homes and offices, intercept our mail and e-mail, and place GPS devices in our vehicles.

• Plant spies, informers, and provocateurs among us; spread disinformation; use bribes and intimidation to turn us against each other.

• Subject us to preventive detention, psychiatric civil commitment, or indefinite arrest as material witnesses.

• Bring trumped-up criminal charges for such things as drug trafficking, weapons possession, child pornography, and sexual assault; plant false evidence; use perjured testimony.

• Go after our families, our friends, our coworkers, our employers, even our lawyers.

• And if all these are not enough, use deadly force.

If you don't believe such things can happen in the western democracies, go ask the Black Panthers and other targets of COINTELPRO, and that happened long before the USA Patriot Act.

--- Steve

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 17 Nov 11 - 01:51 AM

The OWS crowd has lost it's focus. It's NOT about the park, remember?..but now its turning into a media event, with lots of sabre rattling about the fucking park!
OWS is LOSING public support...and to get it back, they have to deal with the REAL issues and culprits....in WASHINGTON, too!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Nov 11 - 02:16 AM

From: Don Firth
Date: 16 Nov 11 - 01:46 PM

"The actions of New York's mayor seem to have spurred OWS activity in other cities. It appears that the forcible suppression that Bluesman and GfS favor is highly counterproductive."

Where in the hell did you get that figment of your screwed up imagination?????????????????

I'm in favor of forcible suppression??????
jeez you political nut-jobs just think you can make up ANYTHING!...but then................you usually do!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Nov 11 - 02:19 AM

I tend to agree...it's not about the park...or about any specific location. If you give an oppressor a stationary target, he eventually finds ways to attack it. A moving target is a lot harder to deal with.

There should be more creative ways of staging a protest than simply occupying a park. If there were enough people willing to take to the streets, as there were in Egypt recently, then doing something like occupying Tahrir Square could possibly work in the long run...but I don't see that happening here yet. Not enough people are taking part for it to happen.

The same thing is occurring in Toronto, and the occupation of a park there is being used by the media to turn the general public against the protest movement. They say that the protestors are trespassing, messing up the park, and causing harm to local businesses. Many people are falling for that negative line of propaganda....and the actual message of the protest is being covered over by it.

Mind you, that could have been expected. The elite are always looking for a way to make anyone who objects to the gross material divisions in society look like "a bum"...and people fall for it.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 17 Nov 11 - 02:24 AM

Hey, Little Hawk..Were you ever able to open those music attachments?

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Don Firth
Date: 17 Nov 11 - 02:25 AM

Mo, ir'S NOT about the PARK.

Who ever said it WAS?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,Guest from sanity
Date: 17 Nov 11 - 02:26 AM

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 17 Nov 11 - 02:27 AM

Its past you bedtime!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Nov 11 - 02:34 AM

Couldn't open them, GfS. I have certainly enjoyed the links you posted about those other videos, though (Judy Collins, etc).

Well, gonna get some more sleep now. I had gone to bed hours ago, but woke up a short while ago and thought I'd check things here.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 17 Nov 11 - 02:39 AM

Well don't lose sleep over it!!!!!!

(Probably couldn't sleep wondering what ridiculous post the 'Bob and Don Show' was going to puke up!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: akenaton
Date: 17 Nov 11 - 04:06 AM

If you "liberals" read between the lines of Suffets post, you can probably gauge that he and I are in agreement about what needs to be done.

The Disneyland attitude of giving our leaders a "good talking to" will change nothing.

Your ultimate choice is civil war.....annihilation; or a genuine attempt to unite and find common ground with the REAL majority of ordinary folks who have no political motivation.

Education, Education, Education......get it?

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: akenaton
Date: 17 Nov 11 - 04:11 AM

In short, stop apologising for the system, faceup to the uncomfortable truth, or shut the fuck up and bend over.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Suffet
Date: 17 Nov 11 - 06:42 AM

Akenaton,

There is no need to read between the line. We are pretty much in agreement about the situation, but then so are a lot of people. Where the big differences of opinion exist are over tactics and strategy. Personally, I am not wedded to any one approach, but at this point in time I strongly believe that tactical nonviolent resistance is and should be the cutting edge, while others engage in activities as varied as electoral politics, education, organizing around specific issues such as defending the rights of labor unions.

I presume that we also agree that while "We are the 99%" makes for a good slogan, the issues go much deeper than getting the 1% to pay their fair share. Even if that demand were won, the inherent inequities of the global corporate capitalist system would remain in place virtually unchanged. Furthermore, within the 99% there are still the very serious divisions of class, as well as problems such as racism, neo-colonialism, sexual and gender oppression, and more. What we have is a global economic system that is built upon exploitation on all levels. Even those people closer to the bottom exploit those beneath them -- think of the petty slumlord or sweatshop owner -- while those closer to the top are exploited by those above them.

What OWS has accomplished, if nothing else, are two things: 1. It has refocused the political conversation in such a way that people are now raising such fundamental questions. 2. It has motivated millions of people to engage in mass action. Because of these two accomplishments, I am now feeling more optimistic than I have in years. I believe a struggle has now begun, but let us not fool ourselves into believing that occupying a few parks will be enough.

--- Steve

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,John from Kemsing
Date: 17 Nov 11 - 06:57 AM

I notice a number of posters have vented their spleen on Washington. On this side of the Atlantic we have politicians, especially the opposition who spout things like "This Government should get a grip and introduce measures to combat this global recession!". When asked what measures the critics have in mind the answer is a blank, they haven`t got a bloody clue themselves!

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Nov 11 - 09:22 AM

I am extremely concerned about the 18 city co-ordinated police action against OWS coincidentily while the President is out of the country.

A staff member of the Federal Judicial dept said that a joint meeting of Homeland Security and various state and city mayoral and police forces are mobilizing for a nationwide police action.

We have all seen the results of the new rules OWS is to obey under ammended free speech interpretations by the (authorities?)
and the resulting police vandalism to private property accross the country.

The only TV media I have acces to outside the internet is Obermann and Pacifica radio. The other outlets have gone uniformally silent and all repeat the same talking points.

What are the best media sites out there.

PS When it comes to insuireing the public health and safety of of the public on the street I would start by not assualting , terrorinzing, stealing from and injuring the people.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 17 Nov 11 - 12:13 PM

Steve Suffet: "What OWS has accomplished, if nothing else, are two things: 1. It has refocused the political conversation in such a way that people are now raising such fundamental questions. 2. It has motivated millions of people to engage in mass action. Because of these two accomplishments, I am now feeling more optimistic than I have in years. I believe a struggle has now begun, but let us not fool ourselves into believing that occupying a few parks will be enough."

Right!...Now it is time to FOCUS on the real problems, and get solutions. Where the OWS crowd is missing the mark, is that they are shifting the focus OFF the original intent, and now making themselves the issue!

Because of political partisan bickering, in which both sides have played a huge, and corrupt role in all this,(as I've posted before, and including the insider trading collusion between Wall Street and Washington), I tend to think that the 'representatives'(?), on BOTH sides, are going to make as much as they can, before the house of cards collapses on their corrupt game!

Frankly, this whole thing smacks of an orchestrated Machiavellian scheme, in which when its all said and done, the very people who the OWS crowd purports to be against, is the very same people who will orchestrate the 'crackdown' that they've been itching for, for years!!
...and this will drag a lot of innocent people down with it, and leave our freedoms(what we have left), to a memory, and a footnote to history....then the very people who are 'allegedly' being protested against, will have unfettered control over EVERY aspect of our lives!

Its time to move onto prosecuting the high crimes and treason that have been foisted against our country, and set into place measures that clean up their act...BOTH in Washington, AND Wall Street, and not fall into the trap of thinking one party is more innocent than the other. They're BOTH in it together....because when a candidate goes to Washington, it is NOT to represent the people, but to make a fast buck, and keep doing it as long as possible, or needed!!!
Our present president is a glowing example of this, being as he has carried on the exact same policies, and direction that his predecessors have done!

Do you ever wonder how many stocks in pharmaceuticals, and the medical INDUSTRY were traded in the days surrounding the 'Health Care' vote?? ...by the very people who voted for it??? Iraq?? the 'bailouts??

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 17 Nov 11 - 12:41 PM

(oops, hit the wrong button...)

....Freddie and Fannie?? 'Loan' guarantees??
If a 'representative'(?) knows which bill is going to pass, and the financial repercussions of that bill, don't you think he and his stock broker are exchanging inside maneuvers, that will obviously sway which way he is going to vote......regardless of what he publicly says to the press, and his/her constituents???

The Democrats think that if they pander to 'caring' about the bleeding hearts, and the Republicans stir up fear, and to resolve it, they push 'patriotism' and 'national security'...they both will have support, and lots of it, by the blind followers, chanting a mantra of talking points, from the respective positions.......then they pass whatever money making, fraudulent bullshit, in which they don't give a rat's ass, about the care and well being of us, nor our freedoms..or what made this country worth defending!!!!

What is REALLY a piss-off, is that the devotees/promoters of this bullshit, just plain IGNORE the very truth, staring them in the face...and just go on defending, and making stupid rationalizations, stretching reality, and twisting it into pretzel-like 'logic'...just because the 'party' they happen to belong to, sells them a fictitious sales pitch, in which they feel came down from the deities!

If the OWS crowd wants to succeed in 'their mission', they need to FOCUS on the REAL issues, and NOT let their successes b overrun by loose cannon, morons, and opportunists, who will just escalate this into bloodshed, by their bad judgements, and behavior!..Which in turn, will deteriorate the effectiveness, and credibility of their valid points.

What we need more, than people getting their heads beat in, for the behavior of idiots, is the EXPOSING of the CORRUPT practices of the politicians/Wall Street/Lobbyist/Insider Trading crowd...and replace it with integrity, truth, and a lot less gullible public!
Shit!..For all we all know, this whole clampdown, and power grab could have all been scripted out, and now played out before us, just to get the desired results, of the tyrants, and oppressors!!!

Something to think about, eh????

.....and then we wonder what incentive those same crooks have in the Mexican 'drug war', and what's in it for them...versus protecting our borders, as set forth in the Constitution!.....BEFORE the Bill of Rights' subjects!

GfS

...and that's the rest of the post....but a LOT more can be said, and I'm sure it will!

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,999
Date: 17 Nov 11 - 02:22 PM

GfS: when you don't shout or talk down to people, you make good points.

The earlier mention of Obama being out of the country: he was in the country before he left and that changed not one bloody thing. This president has been abrogating his responsibilities to US citizens.

As for city mayors and DHS sleeping together: they are gonna play hardball. When someone forces you to do that, take the initiative: pitch. Bring class action lawsuits against the cities, their councils, their police and DHS. Let THEM worry for a change.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: bobad
Date: 17 Nov 11 - 02:24 PM

Willie Nelson: It's time for the rich to pay up

"I pay my taxes and some of those guys up there [on Wall Street] don't," he noted. "And those are the ones that I'm pissed off at, the ones that make millions of dollars a year and don't pay any taxes."

Watch Willie here

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 17 Nov 11 - 02:46 PM

999: "GfS: when you don't shout or talk down to people, you make good points."

That's because no matter how many times I've said it, the usual partisan morons keep avoiding the issues!..then get into immature slurs and name calling! The was one just a few posts back, in which the pedantic 'tard posts a cartoon of 'Beavus and Butthead'. People doing that ARE the reason they get talked down to!

As to the 'good sense' part of your post....look how many times I have ACCURATELY foretold what was happening...only to have time prove me right...but the morons keep, up with their childish antics. It would be WONDERFUL if they'd get past that, and open a decent dialogue, without the usual STUPID talking points, as dogma from on high!

So, perhaps when you see it happening, call them on it!
Is that too much to ask??...liberal mindedness coupled WITH integrity?...BEFORE they want to conquer the far 'other side', with what is seen as asinine, moronic brain-lock???..Who wants that shit???!!!???....Moreover, how would they have an influence, when to act so fucked up, is the alternative?????????????????

you mean to embrace those ideas, I have to be willfully stupid, TOO????!!!

Regards,
999, and to whom you really are!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Don Firth
Date: 17 Nov 11 - 03:07 PM

GfS, I likened you and your shouting-mate to Beavis and Butthead because up to that point the two of you had offered nothing but the equivalent of the vandal interlopers at the OWS gatherings who were there to smash windows and spray-paint store fronts and give the protests bad PR by causing mayhem.

In the rare instance when you ever offer anything of value, I am more that willing to read it. But with RARE exceptions, so far you've been rude and insulting and have offered little but negativism larded heavily with misinformation.

Try behaving like a civilized human being and leave the childish insults out of it and people might pay more attention to what you have to say.

In short, grow up!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Ed T
Date: 17 Nov 11 - 06:20 PM

An interesting perspective on the eviction of th Occupy movement from Halifax Nova Scotia on November 12th.

Mayor Kelly Muffs His Moment

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 17 Nov 11 - 06:39 PM

Do we really need to have this tread, like so many others, including the one that was closed dominated by Gfs' pointless blathering. Remember where it is coming from. Sour grapes over the defeat of Hillary Clinton. Her candidate lost so now she is against "the system". She doesn't seem to want change or a better system. Her "plan" is to change things by not getting involved. She doesn't want change. She just wants an argument. Don't give it to her. She is like a Republican, in that even when you agree she moves the goal posts.

Don, Give us all a break, ignore her.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Nov 11 - 06:48 PM

"GfS: when you don't shout or talk down to people, you make good points."

It is as if your entire mind set and personality is stuck in super cynical mode. You assume no one but you knows how bad it is or how bad its going to be. Since you have abilities, it is imperitive that you gain a deeper understanding of yourself beyond the the recent past. Perhaps you could explore something transformative within yourself that will include a larger purpose and audience. I modestly suggest you think about your own purpose for posting and consider presenting a feast that virtually everyone could enjoy. Dill, bitters, sour cheese and over ripe sushi has its fans but I believe a sweeping menu change would serve you, and us, well.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Nov 11 - 06:56 PM

Like I have pointed out all along, the right wing wants OWS to present it's "white papers" on policy... That is a trap... Screw the right wing... OWS ain't policy weenies... That's what Congressional staffers used to do before the lobbyists took over that work...

No, what OWS is about is changing the conversation... We have done that...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 17 Nov 11 - 08:23 PM

Occupying and changing conversations....fancier words for taking up space and talking. There are more effective means of changing things.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Nov 11 - 08:40 PM

Oh really, dick??? Like what??? The right wing owns all media... The right wing has most of the4 $$$...

How exactly were we supposed to accomplish changing the conversation??? Work campaigns??? Lotta of us have done that and it never changed any conversations...

You are mistaken...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,999
Date: 17 Nov 11 - 08:54 PM

"Occupying and changing conversations....fancier words for taking up space and talking. There are more effective means of changing things."

Let's hear them.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Don Firth
Date: 17 Nov 11 - 09:06 PM

(Sorry, Jack, but it's got to be said. Then, like static on the radio, which also conveys nothing of substance, I shall strive to ignore it.)

Judging from what he/she/it has said repeatedly, GfS hates Obama with the kind of purple passion that one would expect to find gurgling in the gut of the Grand Dragon of the KKK, which sets one to wondering what its motives might be. Not politics, because just about everything it has accused Obama of, from the circumstances of his birth to his religion to his alleged incompetence (lack of successful in getting the Republican Congressional brick wall to cooperated) is pure Fox News blowhardery. And be it noted that in the past, GfS has more than amply displayed rank prejudice in relation toward certain minority groups, especially about granting them their full civil rights.

Now, it's right that both parties are corrupt, but to keep lumping the two together the way some folks here are wont to do (such lofty pronouncements make one appear—or, at least, feel—wise, hence far above all the naïve, brainwashed rank-and-file voters) despite the fact that the two parties are not equally corrupt. If one were to be a good enough citizen to take the time and effort to check the voting records of a number of Senators and Representatives (you DO, at least, check those of the Senators from your state and the Congressional Representative from your district—don't you? Well, don't you?), you would see that there are politicians in the Democratic Party who think democratically or progressively, and not only do they talk the talk, they walk the walk.

This is not to say that there are no Republicans with integrity. There, indeed, are. But the Republican Party argues from a set of principles quite different from what I believe is the right direction in which the country should be moving. Hence, I am forced to throw in my lot with the Democratic Party (I, however, am not a member of the party).

As has been pointed out many times before that, in this country, third parties and their candidates, some of which are far preferable in terms of reflecting my own ideas, have NEVER managed to put a candidate in the White House and only rarely into Congress. More's the pity, but unfortunately that's the way it IS. So one votes for a candidate who comes closest to reflection one's values and who has a real chance of winning. To do otherwise may be idealistic, but thus far, it has proven futile.

[My hobby horse of Preferential or Instant Run-Off Voting would change all of that, however.]

Is this person a Republican? Or, at least, have they displayed Right Wing sympathies? Well, the attacks have all been directed at Obama and the Democrats and the "liberal loonies," with shots taken at "old hippies who never grew up," and other such rightist-style epithets. And this person thought the Tea Party was just peachy-keen, but keeps attacking the Occupy Wall Street movement with everything including the kitchen sink, provided by the Fox News Plumbing Company.

So—what do YOU think? What was that old saying about, "It looks like a duck, it walks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck. . . ?"

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Jeri
Date: 17 Nov 11 - 09:16 PM

"More effective means of changing things"
In the short term, perhaps, for those with short attention spans who lack patience and the will to persevere.

I think these guys want to change more than "right now", and it's starting to seem like they may do it.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 17 Nov 11 - 10:54 PM

The voters of Illinois and Wisconsin are changing things. The Tea Party changed things. What's effective is to get the right people elected, or, even more effectively keep the wrong people from getting elected. Votes count.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Nov 11 - 11:29 PM

The Tea Party has more than met it's match with Occupy Wall Street. As disorganized as they seem, and as incoherent as some would like to portray them, this is the antidote to Sarah Palin and her ilk.

Thank goodness. I think it will help get some people unelected.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 17 Nov 11 - 11:42 PM

I hope you are right SRS.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,999
Date: 17 Nov 11 - 11:54 PM

Wisconsin and Illinois are great examples. However, the coming election will do nothing to change the balance of power even if all the 'right' people DO get elected. That's the rub OWS is up against.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 18 Nov 11 - 02:49 AM

Don: "And be it noted that in the past, GfS has more than amply displayed rank prejudice in relation toward certain minority groups, especially about granting them their full civil rights."

I have??? Show me!...and I'll show you where I said the premise of their 'civil rights' issue cannot be argued in court, based on race creed or color!

...and once again you twist things, just as I said in my last two posts!
...so if you can't TRUTHFULLY produce your charge, then I ask you to back down, because making an ass of yourself repeatedly has not produced anything good, nor productive for furthering rational discussion.

Jeez, We've been here before......don't you EVER learn ANYTHING?
Oh yeah, you bantered about NOT being a 'defeatist'.....but then, it might occur to you, that 'self correction' is not the same, as being a 'defeatist'............but you don't care.
So let's not get the thread closed, AGAIN, because you just make stuff up, then go on a pedantic, but meaningless 'tirade' of just how you got caught in another one of your lying spins.....OK??

Your Beavus and Butthead cartoon showed higher intelligence!
...so be honest, if you can't be factual!

...nor do I 'hate' Obama......I just see him for what he really is. You CAN'T do that, because your partisan brain-lock, blocks a LOT of honest input.....and other flagrantly OBVIOUS FACTS!

I think one advantage I have, over those who live dogmatically UNDER a party line, is that I DON'T have a need to falsely rationalize, 'spin' to make it fall within the parameters of a preconceived notion, that 'my party' is 'better' than 'your party'...and don't give us that crap that you are 'independent'! Everything you spew forth, is not only out of the Democratic talking points, most of which I've boringly heard before, but your tactics of spin, insult, attack, is not only useless, but rather worn out...and easily predictable....and right out of the standard issue 'playbook'. so get real!...(The Impossible Dream), and keep the discussion, on the issues, rather than attacking other poster's characters, when all your other playful antics don't work. ...Oh, and keep the focus on the topic......instead of creating bias!....OK???

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Don Firth
Date: 18 Nov 11 - 03:28 PM

GfS, I don't have to twist things. You are ALREADY twisted!

Would you like me to put up some links to some of your previous posts so people can read for themselves just how prejudice rules your thinking? You've left a pretty easy trail to follow.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 18 Nov 11 - 05:45 PM

Don,

Believe me, You are the ONLY person on this forum who cares what GfS thinks about you or says about you. I am including GfS in this statement.

You and a couple of others may be the only ones who think about what GfS says at all. I AM NOT including GfS in this statement.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,999
Date: 18 Nov 11 - 08:27 PM

I care what GfS thinks about the issue. I don't always appreciate the way he says it, but I read his ideas as I do everyone else's. My read is that he's completely fed up with the two-party system, and that seems to be what OWS is saying, although perhaps not in such abrupt statements.

Wall Street has managed to shill for the bankers under their various guises, and Washington appears to be working at Wall Street's behest.

The personal animosities which sometimes flare into brief but heated retorts do little to forward any exchange of ideas, and that could certainly use some change--well, maybe lots of change. I sometimes get fed up with it, but what's a guy to do? Y'all don't like each other, ya don't like each other.

Little Hawk has never made a secret of his fed-upped-ness because we live with something similar in Canada. Gradually--I hope and pray--that's coming to an end, but I don't know whether we'll go bust with the US or live long enough to change a few things. (We presently have more restrictive banking laws than the US. Harper is doing what he can to turn us into the 51st state, but we'll burn the capital before that happens.)

Anyway, I am nursing a bitchin' headache, so I'll leave you until my head explodes or feels better, because this thread IS Excedrin headache #92.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Suffet
Date: 18 Nov 11 - 08:29 PM

Meanwhile, back in New York...

I returned to Zuccotti Park today. The OWS encampment is gone, access to the park is only through two small gaps in the steel barricades, and the entire place is flooded with private security guards and police. There is no library, no information booth, no food service, no clothing free for the taking, and no medical area. But there were perhaps 100 occupiers remaining, maybe more, and several news crews. And there were four of us with guitars, so we found each other and starting making music together. Meanwhile, another group, also numbering about 100, had marched out of Zuccotti Park to try to set up an encampment in another park.

--- Steve

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 18 Nov 11 - 10:12 PM

999: "I care what GfS thinks about the issue. I don't always appreciate the way he says it, but I read his ideas as I do everyone else's. My read is that he's completely fed up with the two-party system, and that seems to be what OWS is saying, although perhaps not in such abrupt statements."

Actually, Little Hawk is more opposed to the two party system, than myself. My key bitch is with the CORRUPTION, in the TWO parties, and how powerful, and misleading they are...and has been for some time, as I know, most of you can dig up, past posts, and see.

As more and more of this is being revealed, I'd think that ANYONE who has endorsed a candidate, (either party), THINKING that they are representing a like policy, or 'political persuasion'(left or right), and has been voting, for their own capitalistic pig-greedy personal gain, because they stood to make, big bucks, as a result of their vote, would FORCE a situation, to sway the market in their favor?????????... because of an insider trading tip, from a private banking/Wall Street broker....who is acting on behalf of a lobbyist!!!???!!!.............I'd think THAT would at least 'concern' ANY thinking person, of either party,.....at least raise an eyebrow........the 'possibly, just maybe, re-examine just why you bought into their rap...Is that unreasonable???........Maybe for a boneheaded, blind, believing devotee, to the dogma!
Personally, I wouldn't hold ANYTHING negative to someone who, at least, thought of re-examining their processing of political input!..or thought about how that may have affected their outlook on things, or other lives...............That's unreasonable????
The only thing that would do, would cause you to access the level of indoctrination through their propaganda one may have bought into.
And what??.....You 'enjoy' living in a deception????..Makes you feel 'important'?

Example:
A lot of people 'think' Hilary Clinton is a true blue liberal, progressive champion of they want things to be...right?.........remember the political hay, the Republicans made of the Whitewater and Rose Law Firm scandal....that fizzled?.............Remember how they charged and questioned(and correctly so, how she made ALL that money, in a stock deal..overnight?????.....and the REASON it fizzled....was because the Republicans, to reveal it, would be cutting off THEIR feeding trough!!!!!...and why rock the boat, eh?
...Oh, I REMEMBER (sniff sniff), "IT'S FOR THE CHILDREN!!!!"

So, IF you think I sound 'cynical' some times..(or even MORE than 'sometimes').....maybe..just maybe, its all in the PERCEPTION!!!!!!!

or to quote Mr. Dylan again:
"I wish that for just one time
You could stand inside my shoes
And just for that one moment
I could be you

Yes, I wish that for just one time
You could stand inside my shoes
You'd know what a drag it is
To see you!!"

FROM: (read it)
                  

                           Positively 4th Street

You got a lotta nerve
To say you are my friend
When I was down
You just stood there grinning

You got a lotta nerve
To say you got a helping hand to lend
You just want to be on
The side that's winning

You say I let you down
You know it's not like that
If you're so hurt
Why then don't you show it

You say you lost your faith
But that's not where it's at
You had no faith to lose
And you know it

I know the reason
That you talk behind my back
I used to be among the crowd
You're in with

Do you take me for such a fool
To think I'd make contact
With the one who tries to hide
What he don't know to begin with

You see me on the street
You always act surprised
You say, "How are you?" "Good luck"
But you don't mean it

When you know as well as me
You'd rather see me paralyzed
Why don't you just come out once
And scream it

No, I do not feel that good
When I see the heartbreaks you embrace
If I was a master thief
Perhaps I'd rob them

And now I know you're dissatisfied
With your position and your place
Don't you understand
It's not my problem

I wish that for just one time
You could stand inside my shoes
And just for that one moment
I could be you

Yes, I wish that for just one time
You could stand inside my shoes
You'd know what a drag it is
To see you

Copyright © 1965 by Warner Bros. Inc.; renewed 1993 by Special Rider Music

No wonder Little Hawk,(and I), like Dylan.

Any questions?????

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 18 Nov 11 - 10:19 PM

999, I was counting you and Little hawk among the few who care about what she says. I'm still not counting her.

My question to you is, Do you care what she says about Don Firth?

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Bobert
Date: 18 Nov 11 - 10:21 PM

Another nice dodge by GfinS to try to reinvent herself as some kinda outsider lookin' in...

What a joke...

She is a dyed-in-the-wool Republican playing games...

It ain't talk... Talk is cheap... It's the walk...

"Now the die is cast
Nothing happens in the past" (Steven Stills?)

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 19 Nov 11 - 01:58 AM

No dodge..I hit the nail on the head!..It's just 'news' you don't like to hear..no matter how true it is!....but then that is a symptom of political types.....they believe politicians!!...instead of the truth!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 19 Nov 11 - 03:08 AM

Excellent post yet again Guest from Sanity. Everything you say just seems to go over the heads of the goons above. They are not worth wasting time on.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 19 Nov 11 - 03:21 AM

Thank you, bluesman...they just don't get what they're sitting in the middle of!...and then they promote it, as 'talking points' are a sacred edict!

When people believe that shit, they become subjects of easy, predictable manipulations, by their controllers!

By the way, I'm NOT a Republican, nor Democrat....I'm just a regular SANE person!

Regards to ya!...and what kind of blues do you like?

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 19 Nov 11 - 04:12 AM

Mainly Urban and Chicago blues. I also collect rare recordings by Gladys Bentley, Whistlin' Alex Moore, Sippie Wallace and Big Joe Turner.

Have a great weekend.

Keith.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 19 Nov 11 - 04:34 AM

Ok..have you heard of...Her? ..and here's her
again.

Regards!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 19 Nov 11 - 04:45 AM

My God, that is amazing. Absolutely incredible voice and instrumentalist.

Big big thanks for the links.

Keith

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,999
Date: 19 Nov 11 - 07:05 AM

1) Jack, don't try manipulation with me. You're not very good at it. Don knows where I stand on it, and that's what matters to me in this regard.

2) GfS: don't try teaching your grandmother to suck eggs. I could out-quote you on Dylan even if it was a bad day. BTW,

"Thank you, bluesman...they just don't get what they're sitting in the middle of!"

That is a decidedly poor choice of friends. Read "Bluesman's" posts regarding travelers, people who are poor, etc. Even on a cold night you wouldn't want to share a blanket with him. Don't take my word for it, ask Little Hawk, speaking of whom . . .

3) Saying I read your posts for ideas does not mean I endorse your tantrums and disregard for others. Please don't get that idea. You somehow have it in your head that you introduced/pioneered the idea that the financial markets and political scene are controlled and/or manipulated. Sorry, but I was there three or four years before you on this forum and at least twenty years before you in real life. When I first mentioned two publications, one to do with the historical usage of the term New World Order and the other entitled "Project for the New American Century" which was guided by Paul Wolfowitz, et.al., I was either ridiculed or ignored. I didn't see any support from you at the time. Both are playing out in the present reality.

So let's not pretend you have all that much to teach me. I already know how to make an ass out of myself. When you post your ideas without the vitriol, you may be able to convince a person or two. So far, the only one you seem to have convinced with your tactics is a reprehensible individual who has demonstrated with his posts that he'd be quite happy to implement a pogram that would rid the world of travelers and people who are poor, an individual who has advocated the murders of protestors. As you are so fond of saying, look it up. Sometimes yer enemy's enemy ain't yer friend.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Nov 11 - 09:40 AM

GfS to Don Firth: Everything you spew forth,

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Suffet
Date: 19 Nov 11 - 09:57 AM

Since this discussion is no longer about Occupy Wall Street, I'm dropping out for the time being. If and when it even gets back on-topic I will return, provided I have something useful to add.

Meanwhile, I invite everyone who has a Facebook account to visit Occupy Folk Music.

--- Steve

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: akenaton
Date: 19 Nov 11 - 12:02 PM

What a great player performer!!....magic, thanks for linking GfS.

I'm away to down load some of THAT!

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 19 Nov 11 - 12:27 PM

Sorry Suffet,

Some people, some unregistered posters who, for some reason get away with things that most others would not if they were not registered,   people who are obviously here only to disturb and distract, are not are doing their unmoderated best to prevent discussion of the topic.

Would you please keep posting your reports? I have been reading them with interest.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Nov 11 - 12:51 PM

Are we in a competition here over who cares about whose posts? I hope not. It doesn't matter anyway.

Besides, what most people here really care about at the deeper level...I mean, their number one priority every time they post here...is seeing their own thoughts appear magically and mightily in print on the screen. They love expressing themselves. Some like expressing themselves particularly at the expense of others, and one way to do that is to point out how little you care about what so-and-so has to say...if so-and-so is insecure enough to give a damn about that...hey!...you might even manage to hurt their feelings some when you say it, and won't that be sweet?

And in the end? No one really cares what the other guy says all that much. They're all too busy expressing themselves to care much what the other guy said. That's natural. That's what people normally do in real life too. Just like dogs. They bark loudly. They don't listen much to anyone else...they listen to the glorious sound of their own voice echoing in their own head. This is true of virtually everyone, so I wouldn't sweat it worrying about it, just observe and understand that that is what is happening.

But, then...

"Even a fool will be thought wise, if he remain silent."


****

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Don Firth
Date: 19 Nov 11 - 06:17 PM

"'Tis better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt."
                                             --attributed to Plato, Abrahan Lincoln, and many others.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 19 Nov 11 - 06:36 PM

Little Hawk, Would you please stick to the subject or start another thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: gnu
Date: 19 Nov 11 - 06:53 PM

LH... "And in the end? No one really cares what the other guy says all that much. They're all too busy expressing themselves to care much what the other guy said."

Ya think? Hehehehehee.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 19 Nov 11 - 11:05 PM

Indeed.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 19 Nov 11 - 11:32 PM

Time out!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Nov 11 - 11:34 PM

No matter how many occupier get shut down, the conversation has been changed and the American people have been given a boatload to think about...

So we declare victory and future demonstrations will be like these refreshers...

We stood up to Boss Hog's $$$billion$$$ PR folks and beat them...

My heartfelt congrates to fellow Occupiers everywhere...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 19 Nov 11 - 11:37 PM

Nice one Guest from Sanity,going to sit back and enjoy this.

Keith.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Nov 11 - 11:40 PM

What do I hope will result from the OWS activity? If we could go back to corporations NOT being "persons" we'll have made huge strides. In environmental philosophy courses I have discussed this for many years. The Supreme Court decision was frankly a surprise. You'd think they would have read a few philosophers before deciding to grant corporations personhood. Bollocks!

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 20 Nov 11 - 07:21 AM

Occupiers?????? Idle wasters and scroungers more like it.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: bobad
Date: 20 Nov 11 - 07:59 AM

When all the trees have been cut down,
when all the animals have been hunted,
when all the waters are polluted,
when all the air is unsafe to breathe,
only then will you discover you cannot eat money.

Cree Prophecy

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 20 Nov 11 - 09:44 AM

Newt Gingrich's message to OWS...

"Get a job. After you take a bath."

With people like this in charge, the revolution will come.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Nov 11 - 10:43 AM

Sure, Newt....

Exactly where are those jobs...

Oh, that's right... Burger King, $7.25 an hour... So that's why these kids racked up $40K in college loans??? So they could take a starter job at Burger King and joint the ranks of the working poor??? BTW, the problem with those started jobs at Burger King is that if you stay in them for 20 years you'll still be making $7.25 an hour and living in poverty...

Here's one for Newt: Quit lying about the $1.6M welfare check you got from Fannie Mae, quit lying about your womanizing, quit lying about all these jobs... Just quit lying, Newt!!!

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,999
Date: 20 Nov 11 - 12:40 PM

When a dog pees on a fire hydrant it is not committing an act of vandalism. It is simply being a dog.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 20 Nov 11 - 01:37 PM

I actually agree with Bobert, (to a degree) on this one. (pass Bobert the smelling salts!) The most important thing to come out of the is the 'discussion' may be more focused on SOME of the problems....but, Obama knew about this, when he (campaigned) promised NOT to have lobbyists and such, in his cabinet..a promise he did NOT keep....OR, maybe he COULDN'T keep it. (That's giving Obama a little bit credit on the doubt).
The main problem in our government, and nation, is NOT a 'political' problem.....it is a MORAL problem!...and our 'so-called' representatives are just the tip of the iceberg.
While Wall Streeters(OWS) get their heads beat in, they are mistakenly 'hopeful' that certain, 'supporting' members of Congress, and the Administration, will somehow hear their cries, and/or sympathized with their plight....but what they aren't taking into account, is that those SAME ones they are looking to, for a helping hand, aren't about to cut off their 'inside' pipeline, to the money trough, that they've been sucking off, FOR YEARS!....completely fucking us, and the economy over....and over....and over!
When people like Steve Suffet are out there, risking his own safety, perhaps, to bring attention to a problem, those same 'representatives' are positioning themselves.....and people like Steve, are left out, twisting in the wind, with their asses in the breeze, becoming cannon fodder, while the ones being look to, for help, are still figuring a way to make, yet MORE profits out of it!!
...and you wonder where the gridlock comes from????? It's NOT from 'political' differences, all the time....it's from neither side wanting to pull the plug on their ability to scam the American private sector, and allow the 'opposing' party do do the same....as long as they reciprocate!
If their is a 'delay' in dealing with this, it is only because, if a 'change' is being formulated, it will only come, when they figure out some 'new exclusive loopholes' to afford them the same luxury, that they have now! .....other than that, the 'political' factions, will only use the Wall Streeters, as a way to foment bloodshed, so they can capitalize on it....to advance their political agendas....for their advancement, as well!
How many of the Washington/Wall Street connection crowd do YOU THINK are going to raise taxes on the 1%-ters? ...until they, at least figure a way to launder their corrupt earnings!
Now if the Wall Streeters advance their dialogue to include this discussion, and do this in an intelligent, salient way, and cut out those who are making them look like 'buffoons', and 'opportunists', THEN we will have gotten somewhere!
BUT, if some of the behavior, of SOME of the 'politicos', on this forum, are any indication, the discussion will be hijacked, into stupid name calling, slurring, projection of false intentions, and the like, and nothing will happen...except deterioration...and the OWS will become like a passing 'trip' some people got into....
...and by the way, likening the OWS movement to the '60's anti war movement, is really a misplaced effort...being as one was protesting being drafted against own's will...to kill, or be killed...and the other is focusing on 'debt forgiveness'.....not really the same thing, guys!

So Steve, if you're out there, or move to another location, take care, and be careful..(take care of your 'ax', too)...and don't be lured into, that the cavalry is going to come and 'fix' anything. be careful!

Regards To All!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 21 Nov 11 - 12:15 AM

Anyone who wishes to pontificate on the atitudes, hygiene, motives, or practices of OWS should get out and live amongst it, and not just listen to the news (especially Fox News).
OWS is not a rally in support of any politician or political party.
OWS is not an appeal to any politician or political party.
OWS says (okay, *I say* ... because none of us would deign to speak for all other OWS'ers) that the world is watching. The world needs to *see* the people who are not being served by our current system. The world needs to know that the 99% exist.
If you just get your news from Fox (or any big media), you have no idea what it is like.
It took violence against OWS for the media to pay any attention.
We *need* to get our heads bashed and our faces pepper sprayed or the big media will not consider it news that 99% of people are getting shit on by the 1%. And if the big media aren't covering it, the world can be blissfully ignorant frogs in the soup pot watching reality TV and not knowing that they are being screwed bloody blind by the 1%.
Our local Occupy no longer makes even the back page. Because the cops and Mayor are being cool. That's okay. Everyone who drives by and sees it might be curious enough to learn something. And if the crackdown comes, we will be non-violent and we will be back on the front page.
Without the money to buy politicians all we can do is be persistent and non-violent. We are not going away.
And Fuck you Newt. If we could all just take a bath and get a job, there would be no OWS.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 21 Nov 11 - 12:49 AM

Well, TIA....you said some 'right on' things.....(not everything..but its an improvement!)"

TIA: "OWS is not a rally in support of any politician or political party...."

(Tell Bobert!....maybe even Don..if he ain't too busy making shit up!)

"OWS is not an appeal to any politician or political party."

Yell it from the rooftops!...They are not about to help you anyway....they're too busy making money from Wall Street, by 'selling legislation', and getting insider trade tips, as payoffs!...and from passing bills that they can profit from!!!!!

BUT...there is some other things we can do.....and it would be up from the PEOPLE....not through the filters of crony capitalism!(Congress, the bankers, and this administration...oh.. and Wall Street, of course.....


GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 21 Nov 11 - 01:45 AM

Oh, good lordy..I just found this.....hayley and SophieWestenra(sisters)

Enjoy!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 21 Nov 11 - 08:22 AM

Keep your compliments.
Educate yourself.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 21 Nov 11 - 11:42 AM

It wasn't a compliment...just an impartial observation.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 21 Nov 11 - 12:44 PM

I predict that Katehi will be gone soon.
The silent walk to her car is the most beautiful and completely non-violent and non-aggressive demonstration I have ever seen.

Please watch...and turn up the sound so you can hear the powerful deafening silence.

Well done you dirty hippy socialist freeloaders of California!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmfIuKelOt4

uncomfortable silence

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 21 Nov 11 - 01:09 PM

Once in a while, though 'unfortunate' circumstances of adversity occur, beauty, grace, and vision still can exist....as seen here!!!!!!!........(video starts at 0:35)

Enjoy the inspiration!!!!


..and then there is this masterpiece...Right Here!!

I have composed music for dance...but these two performances, must be among the best I've EVER seen!

Enjoy!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,999
Date: 21 Nov 11 - 02:04 PM

Stunningly beautiful, TIA, and effective beyond words.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 21 Nov 11 - 02:13 PM

999, the links were from me.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: pdq
Date: 21 Nov 11 - 02:31 PM

"Under Katehi's leadership, UC Davis co-hosted the Governors' Global Climate Summit 3: Building the Green Economy in November 2010. Participants included Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger, the United Nations Development Programme, and the United Nations Environment Programme. The summit's focus was to continue to build subnational collaboration on policies and strategies to stimulate economic growth, reduce dependence on fossil fuels, create green jobs, promote clean energy solutions and reduce greenhouse gas pollution."

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: gnu
Date: 21 Nov 11 - 02:42 PM

GFS... stunningly indeed!

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,999
Date: 21 Nov 11 - 03:35 PM

My stunningly beautiful remark was for TIA's link.

"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmfIuKelOt4

uncomfortable silence"

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 21 Nov 11 - 03:37 PM

Oh...

Well help is coming.....I have some.....

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: gnu
Date: 21 Nov 11 - 03:54 PM

I agree the silence was golden 9 but GFS's links were awesome. Kinda weird in this thread but then again... >;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,999
Date: 21 Nov 11 - 04:08 PM

Sorry, Gnu, I didn't open GfS's links. What are they?

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: gnu
Date: 21 Nov 11 - 04:13 PM

9... Ballet/Cirque de Soleil kinda dance stuff. Excellent.

I understand why you didn't open the links.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Don Firth
Date: 21 Nov 11 - 04:26 PM

Well worth it, 9. Beautiful!

The second one in particular is a masterful blend of ballet, athleticism, and eroticism.

If nothing else, GfS certainly knows how to divert a thread from its intended topic.

Don Firth

P. S. By the way, did you know that by clicking the four little arrows (looks like a box at first) in the lower right-hand corner of the video frame, it expands the video to full screen?

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 21 Nov 11 - 05:39 PM

I think it is incumbent on all of us to encourage distracting trolling only on the serious political threads. If someone's main purpose is to disrupt. They should be engaged at every turn. Insults should be met with insults until they escalate and carry on day after day in thread after thread. Members should take these trolls on as pets and alleviate their wild need for attention by encouraging their wild outburst and overlooking their disruptive behavior.

I think, if we do this we will accomplish the goal of peace in our time.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 22 Nov 11 - 02:29 AM

OMG do I love the People's Mic...

Eric Cantor gets it live on CSPAN

Mic Check!

For even more fun, Google Karl Rove mic check Johns Hopkins.

Or Michelle Bachmann mic check South Carolina.

Hooowhee. The People's mic vs. Fox News.

Game On!

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 22 Nov 11 - 02:44 AM

'Diverting attention'??? Those words dripping from YOUR keyboard???
Nonsense! This is a MUSIC forum, with political topics,(in the minority). Politics is a DIVIDER(one of your favorite pastimes)..MUSIC can definitely feed the heart and soul of mankind, and can be an expression of many nurturing elements, especially in the troublesome times!!

TIA posted a rather provocative post, that spoke volumes!
In another thread, the topic is "OWS RIP".
Steve, as well as others from here, as I've mentioned before, has been in harms way at times.
There is a anticipated crackdown on the protesters, in which people ARE going to be hurt....and we all sit here, in the comfort of our homes, and WATCH the beatings on T.V. or our computer screens, rooting the OWS protesters on...and I guess YOU think its OK..as long as it's not YOU getting your head bashed in, or YOU getting pepper sprayed. Oh! how fucking brave you think you must be!...as YOU pass your self inflated opinions..while people are getting hurt! Perhaps you take it as entertainment, much like a spectator sport, and hoping YOUR team wins!

In light of TIA's post,(link), which, coupled with the earlier spraying, sometimes a piece of music, or art, in this case dance, set to music, that tells a story, such as the one I posted, there is a message of 'NOT GIVING IN TO ADVERSITY'....as the viewer is watching these two AMPUTEES dance, in the manner that they did, telling a story, that had many in the audience shedding tears......and you cannot find anything 'inspirational' about that??????...nor relevant to what the protesters are facing??????...nor encouraging, in regards to 'taking heart'???
I'm tempted to actually type, what I think that says about YOU, and your ilk....but this time, I'll not say it.....and if others can't figure it out for themselves, no amount of 'clues' are going to stimulate a positive thought, in an enlightening direction!

Now, at the end of my post I said 'help is coming'....something WE can actually all DO in the right direction..which I will be posting, and I would be now...but I'm taking the time, to respond to YOUR 'diversion of attention'...ONCE A-FUCKING-GAIN!!!!
You have a Jones about 'getting' me...I think because I've pointed out to you, and others, that you have been feeding misinformation to others, and fanning bias, hate and discontent, through the false presumptuous, VAIN imaginations of your self-opinionated self importance!!! KNOCK IT OFF! Consider, for a moment(if you can), that when someone tells you the truth about something...that it might..just maybe, have some relevance!.....something you might have to just grit your teeth, and CONSIDER! For a LONG time, I've been thinking Obama was not too qualified..CONSIDER THIS!!
Once again, some of you slow-pokes, couldn't read the writing on the wall.(Shit! I'd be surprised if some of you could even read..at all!)
By the way Bobert, which 'side' of the Democrats are the 'right' ones, in this matter?
There are FAR GREATER root causes to be addressed, than the lightweight, bullshit arguing over mere, phony talking points, that appear to be the depth of your understanding....!?!?

'Diverting attention'???..That's the PURPOSE OF 'TALKING POINTS'!!!

Feeding the heart and soul of the human spirit, is usually all that is needed, for one to arrive at doing the right thing.
the purpose of those links, was to do...just that!
let's not turn everything of beauty, and inspiration into the hellish, dark abyss of telling everyone what they should do..but rather allow them to come to a realization.....from empathizing in the human condition!

Enough said???

GfS

P.S. I WILL be posting something POSITIVE, that we can all do..SOON!

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 22 Nov 11 - 03:15 AM

I await the aforementioned *postive* post, but I am not holding my breath :) winking :)waving.......

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 22 Nov 11 - 03:37 AM

Some people just don't get it.

Tens of thousands of Americans have taken to the streets to demand accountability for the banks. But some members of the Obama administration—including members of his Cabinet—are pushing for a terrible deal to let the big banks off the hook for selling bad mortgages and then illegally foreclosing on homeowners—destroying the American Dream for millions of families.1

The president's top campaign advisers have said that he's going to run for re-election on his record of holding Wall Street accountable2—but that'll be impossible if his administration pushes for another giveaway for the Wall Street banks who crashed our economy. And that could happen any day now.3

Can you sign our petition to President Obama right now telling him that we need a full investigation into the banks' wrongdoing, not another "deal" that lets them off the hook?

Add my name to the petition to hold the banks accountable.

We'll deliver it to the White House and to the campaign headquarters in Chicago. Here's what it says: "The banks have to be held accountable for destroying the American Dream for so many families. No immunity for the banks before a full investigation is done."

Members of the Obama administration have said that the immunity they're offering the banks would be very narrow. But we can't know if what the banks are being asked to pay is fair without a full investigation. What's already come out is shocking—intentionally overlooking problematic documentation, hiring "robo-signers" to sign thousands of documents without reading them, and even forging critical legal documents.4

And while the administration says we have to cut a deal because it's the only way to get homeowners relief quickly, what the banks are offering would only help a fraction of the homeowners who are in trouble, and it's not even clear how many of them it would allow to stay in their homes.5

Some state attorneys general—led by New York Attorney General Eric Schneiderman and Delaware Attorney General Beau Biden—have walked away from the deal, because they believe it doesn't go nearly far enough.6 But members of the administration, including Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner and HUD Secretary Shaun Donovan, are continuing to push for a deal—any deal—so they can SAY they won something against the banks.7

That's why it's so critical that we speak up now and say that granting the banks immunity before we know the scale of their wrongdoing makes no sense. A deal could come any day, so we all need to send a message to the president that he needs to step up and hold the banks accountable. Click below to sign now:
Try this!

And I've got another one coming!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 22 Nov 11 - 03:44 AM

This is an old article, and when it was written, many probably considered it "way out there". But now we have learned so much more about the massive and pervasive manipulation of our media and our economy, by the banksters and corporates, who have been spending huge sums of money, not just to corrupt our government, but to influence our opinions and repeatedly convince us to vote against our own best interest and vote them more power and control, at the expense of ourselves. While I do not personally agree with certain conclusions in the article, I believe the author has actually fallen victim, to a degree ( and who doesn't ), of the media propaganda which the article is discussing, the overall conclusions regarding the global reach of the banksters and the idea that they do not have our best interests at heart, is spot on. If you have doubts, just think about the 16 trillion dollars, secured by the American people, passed out, secretly by the Fed (and only exposed due to the efforts of one Senator, who accepts no corporate bribes,Sen. Bernie Sanders), to their partners in crime, their fellow banksters around the world (including the Bank of Libya, no joke).

I highlighted the following in the text and also pasted it below, because I believe this is the key factor to understanding the rest. Written by the man who virtually invented the modern public relations industry, it is a fairly safe bet to say this guy knew what he was talking about.

While most of you probably have already thought about this yourselves, there are still far to many that have not.

So pass it on.


"We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of… In almost every act of our daily lives, whether in the sphere of politics or business, in our social conduct or our ethical thinking, we are dominated by a relatively small number of persons, who understand the mental processes and social patterns of the masses. It is they who pull the wires which control the public mind."   Edward Bernays.


Posted Today, 04:43 AM
BANKING 'REFORMS' ARE COMING SOONER THAN WE THINK…


"It is well that the people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning." – Henry Ford


April 1, 2009

BANKING 'REFORMS' ARE COMING…

The global economic crisis has been engineered deliberately by globalist bankers, to manipulate the public into accepting the 'New World Order' – An Orwellian global dictatorship ruled by unelected private bankers and bureaucrats. Their ultimate goal is to create a One World Government, One World Bank, One World Currency and a micro-chipped population, linked to a digital global surveillance system … but ...
they are not what you were expecting

WHY HAVEN'T I HEARD ABOUT THIS?

Unfortunately, our governments, politicians and mainstream media have been bought and paid for by private banking interests. Even though an illusion of choice is maintained by the corporate media, all of the major political parties, mainstream media outlets, multinational corporations and central banks are controlled by the same private bankers – and it's not yet in their interests for you to find out about their plan for us. The 'reality' that we're spoon-fed by the controlled corporate media is carefully packaged and prepared for us by people that don't have our best interests at heart. As Edward Bernays, the father of the modern public relations industry famously said:

"We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of… In almost every act of our daily lives, whether in the sphere of politics or business, in our social conduct or our ethical thinking, we are dominated by a relatively small number of persons, who understand the mental processes and social patterns of the masses. It is they who pull the wires which control the public mind."

The corporate media conditions us to perceive the world in a way that protects the interests of the banking elite – which conflict with the interests of the common people by their very nature. Although we can choose between BBC, CNN or Fox News, or we can vote Labour/Conservative or Democrat/Republican, all of these are owned, funded and controlled by the same private banking interests, and you're not told anything that might empower you or threaten the agenda of the bankers.

HOW DID THIS HAPPEN?

In 1913, US legislation was swindled into place by banking families including the Rockefellers and the Rothschilds, which gave them the power to print and control the money supply for the entire nation. Known as the Federal Reserve act, this gave birth to the Federal Reserve central bank, and enabled the bankers – who were unelected and completely unaccountable – to print money out of thin air. All of the money in circulation is printed and regulated by private bankers, not the government. It is then loaned to the government, at interest. The same system used by the Federal Reserve is also used by other central banks, including the Bank of England, and the same families control all of them.

"Give me control of a nation's money supply and I care not who makes it's laws." – Mayer Amschel Rothschild

"It is well that the people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning." – Henry Ford

Every single unit of currency in circulation was loaned with interest attached to it. So where does the money to pay for the interest come from? It can only come from the central bank again, which means that the central bank has to continually increase the money supply just to cover the outstanding interest owed – putting the government and thus the public in ever increasing debt, which is impossible to ever pay off.


This is what the 'National Debt' is, and it's where every last penny of your income tax goes. It's also the real cause of 'inflation', and why the cost of living continues to skyrocket, while wages remain the same. As a result of this cozy little arrangement, governments are now at the complete mercy of private bankers.


The private central banks also have complete control over the so-called 'economic cycle'. Creating a boom is as simple as injecting more money into circulation – by making loans readily available to the government and public. To create an economic depression, all the bankers have to do is take money out of circulation – by calling in their loans and making it harder for people to borrow more. So why would private bankers cause an economic depression? Because depressions put people out of business, which enables the banks to buy them up for a fraction of their value. The bankers then inject more money into circulation and on and on the cycle goes. This is how, since 1913, a relative handful of private bankers have been able to buy up the entire mainstream media and corporate power structure. Legally, governments have the power to print their own interest-free currency, which would solve most of our problems overnight. Unfortunately, the bankers see to it using the vast wealth and resources they've acquired that only their front-men get into the positions of power in government, and that the agenda continues on it's desired course while the masses quarrel over left versus right or the latest celebrity scandal.

HOW CAN A HANDFUL OF PEOPLE CONTROL BILLIONS?

Since the creation of the Federal Reserve, a number of highly secretive private organizations have been set up by the banking interests. The most notable of these are the Bilderberg Group, the Council on Foreign Relations and the Trilateral Commission.

These organizations recruit people from positions of influence in the world and then reward them for loyalty and obedience to the agenda of the global banking elite. They are made up of the heads of global banking, politics, finance, business, media, education, military and intelligence, and feature Gordon Brown, Tony Blair, Barack Obama, Bill Clinton and Nicolas Sarkozy amongst their ranks – yet none of this is even mentioned in the mainstream media.

By controlling these individuals, the banksters are able to exercise almost complete control over the entire global power structure – The decisions made at the highest levels permeate through all of the lower levels, and as you move down the levels there exist more and more people who know less and less about who or what they are really working for. They only know enough to 'just do their job'. It is for this reason that most so-called 'journalists' haven't even heard of any of these organizations.

WHY SHOULD I CARE?

The current financial crisis is an act of economic terrorism, carried out deliberately by the bankers to terrify the public into consenting to a global currency and global central bank.

These will soon be the 'solutions' offered to us as 'necessary' – by New World Order frontmen such as Gordon Brown and Barack Obama – to resolve the crisis that they created in the first place. The bankers are not content with controlling individual Western nations – they have their
sights set on world control.

"We are on the verge of a global transformation. All we need is the right major crisis and the nations will accept the New World Order." – David Rockefeller

The first step is to surrender individual governments and currencies to superstates like the European Union – which is run by unelected bureaucrats working for the bankers, and now bypasses the authority of individual member governments. Barack Obama will soon attempt to usher the US population into joining the 'North American Union' – A merger between the US, Canada and Mexico, with a new currency called the 'Amero'. Look out also for the 'Asia/Pacific Union' and the 'African Union'.

When all of the superstates – with their 'super-currencies' – are in place, the bankers intend to merge them all together under a global totalitarian government, with a global electronic currency, stored on a compulsory implanted microchip. Every single human on the planet will be chipped and connected to a digital global surveillance system – already being created under the guise of fighting 'terrorism'. Every action will be monitored and recorded 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, from birth to death.

WHY SHOULD I BELIEVE ANY OF THIS?

You're not expected to passively believe anything you read here. It may seem far-fetched at first, but please research this information with an open mind and decide for yourself. A good place to start would be to watch the following documentaries for free on Google Video or YouTube: Wake Up Call, The Obama Deception, America: Freedom To Fascism, Zeitgeist, Endgame, The Money Masters, Terrorstorm, Monopoly Men. Or search the following keywords in Google: New World Order, Federal Reserve Fraud, Problem-Reaction-Solution, Bilderberg Group, Microchip Implants, Cashless Society, North American Union.

WHAT CAN I DO ABOUT IT?

When you've educated yourself about these issues, it is essential to spread the word to as many people as you can, in whatever way you can! The New World Order agenda can only succeed if the general public consent to it, and we will only consent to it if we remain ignorant of it's existence and the methods that are used to manipulate it into place.

Fortunately, millions of people are now coming together worldwide to put an end to this madness.

~
But remember, when fighting the fight ~ "All they that take the sword, shall perish with the sword" Matthew

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 22 Nov 11 - 03:50 AM

Do they realize how stupid they sound?

Maybe they do, but just figure that Americans are so dumbed down by now that no one will notice. Paul Ryan is not a stupid person, my personal opinion is that he is a sociopath, but being wholly owned by Wall Street (banksters and corporates) means that he is required to take certain positions that just make him look stupid.

His most recent stupid (and glaringly false) comment was that the TALK of income inequality was dividing America.
Not income inequality itself, but just the talk of it, is the root of our troubles. I must admit, when I read this, it did not compute at first. I couldn't believe that anyone, no matter how much he is paid by the Koch brothers, or whoever, could put himself on the record with such a stupid lie, not just a stupid lie, but a provable lie.

The USA ranks 93rd in income inequality, behind Egypt(45), India(56), China(81),and Iran(90). Though I believe our ranking should actually be much lower, as it does not take into account the unemployed. And income inequality is increasing at an accelerated rate every year.

This is what is dividing Americans. This is what the "Occupy" protesters are really protesting. Our corporately controlled media, basically debase and dismiss the protesters as, well take your pick, saying that they "have no point", "no platform", "they don't even know what they are doing there", etc,etc. The media will continue this pretense because they are part of the problem, they are the mouthpiece of the corporates, and the media talking heads (shills) are paid very well to stick to the script (lie) . Our wholly owned politicians, both Republican and Democrat, will do the same because they have been purchased, with billions of campaign contributions (bribes), by the very corporates and banksters who have brought us to this dire situation. All except one. Senator Bernie Sanders is the only senator I know of, there may be others, that accepts no corporate or bankster bribes.

If you don't believe our government, including our Supreme Court and Justice Dept., are owned by Wall Street, I would ask you to consider one thing. After committing massive fraud ( labeling sub-prime mortgages as Triple A, not to mention the "counterfeited mortgages" created after Wall Street crashed the entire global economy) not only has not a single bankster been put in prison, not one has even seen the inside of a courtroom. And if that isn't glaring enough they were also handed hundreds of billions of tax free, no strings, tax payer, dollars, by our caring government, just to make up for any losses they may have suffered, after pocketing trillions in profits during the "boom" years.

I have lived in third world countries where the corruption was just right there, in your face, well, we may do it with a little more subtlety, we have much more elaborate smoke and mirrors, but I seriously doubt there is any country, anywhere in the world, that has the scale of corruption that we have in our government. And I admit that with great sadness and regret, because Americans deserve better.

But don't worry because help is on the way, Paul Ryan has the answer, if these damned people would just stop exercising their right as Americans, you know, that darn 1st Amendment right to free speech, if everyone would just stop TALKING about things, our problems would just naturally go away.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 22 Nov 11 - 03:58 AM

A few changes I personally would like to see should "We the People" actually get a voice in a land where "corporations are people, my friend" and "money is speech".

1. Public funding of elections.

Take the private and corporate money right out of the equation. Our elected representatives will then be required to work for ALL the American people, and not just for those who have backed and funded their campaigns.

2. Citizens United decision should be revoked.

Corporations are NOT people and money should NOT be entitled to speech, and the 5 Supreme Court judges who supported this corrosive decision should be investigated to see how they or their family members directly benefited from this action.

3. All legislative safeguards that have been dismantled over the last 30 years should be re-examined and exposed to the light of day.

Anti-monopoly legislation and especially Glass-Spiegel (which restricted banks to actual banking practices and prevented them from behaving like drunken sailors at a Las Vegas casino, which we now know was the direct cause of the US and global economic meltdown of 2007) should be updated and reinstated.
We have a total lack of real competition in major areas of our economy, this must be addressed and "too big to fail" eliminated. All legislation that rewards moving American jobs overseas must be revoked and legislation that does the opposite passed. All Free Trade agreements must also be reexamined in the light of saving and recreating American jobs.

4. All monies drained from Social Security and Medicare for other purposes should be refunded and locked in place

Successive governments have siphoned money from these programs to fund other, non productive activities, Engaging in unfunded wars drained much of Social Security, legislation that benefited corporate criminals only, such as Medicare Advantage and Medicare Part D, which were giveaways of taxpayer money to insurance and pharmaceutical corporations, put Medicare in troubled waters (intentionally, to justify eventual privatization). These programs could be put right by a tiny transaction tax on Wall Street trading. Once misappropriated taxpayer funds have been restored to these programs, the accounts should be locked to all purposes except those originally intended.

5. Revoke the Federal Reserve charter.

Our democratically elected government should be responsible for issuing our own legal tender, backed by the "full faith and credit" just as it is now, but without the debt to the bankster gangsters. I would prefer our government, open to oversight and answerable to the people, over a bunch of secretive banksters, with no oversight at all, any day. Could they possibly do worse than a private cabal, that we recently learned, thanks to Sen. Bernie Sanders, had secretly passed out 12 trillion dollars to their international bankster friends, including the Bank of Libya. 12 trillion dollars of unsecured loans, a debt that you and I, the American taxpayer, are on the hook for. Could YOU ever imagine going to your local bank and obtaining an unsecured loan, not likely.

6. Prosecute those responsible.

I believe we still have prosecutors in this country, you have to wonder "why aren't the bankster gangsters who crashed the global economy, and profited obscenely from it, being prosecuted for the demonstrable fraud that they committed?".

Many other good things would naturally follow, for our country and our people, the single, but incredibly difficult act, of prying the corrupting hands of corporate crooks and bankster gangsters, out of our government. A government that was meant to be "Of, By, and For the People", ALL the people, not just the 1% at the top.

We are now at a point where this is doable,not for nothing do polls show that fully 82% of Americans disapprove, 62% of that 82% "strongly disapprove", of the performance of our corrupted congress. (The 14% that approved may suggest just how large a number of Washington lobbyist's are employed by the corporates)

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 22 Nov 11 - 04:05 AM

Martin Wolf, chief economist of the Financial times, predicted at the start that Britain's move to cut it's debt would result in a completely stagnant economy. He was right. The US economy is in exactly a mirror image of the situation faced by Britain, cautious private sector, weak housing market, high savings in private sector ( top 1%, unwillingness to invest in US), with one key difference, the world can withstand Britain's mistake, it is in effect a "local" affair, but if the US, the main driver of the world economy, makes the same mistake, the US economy will not just go into a second, more drastic recession, but it will drag the entire global economy with it, creating, in effect, a global economic "nuclear winter".

You have to wonder why the Republicans insist on opposing any government attempt to put America back to work. When the private sector switches off, government must step up to create the conditions that enable it to switch back on. Republicans are not stupid, they must understand that the time to work on reducing the debt is when the economy is firing on all cylinders. So you have to ask, why this insistence now on shutting government down to reduce the debt, when every real economist would oppose such irresponsible behavior? The time to reduce the debt would have been when Clinton left office, leaving behind a budget surplus. The Republicans were in control of the House (2001-2007) and the Senate (2003-2007) and the Presidency (2000-2008), so in effect they ran the whole show, unopposed from 2003 to 2007. So why, instead of paying down the debt, did they instead behave like drunken sailors. Tax cuts to millionaires and billionaires,100's of billions in handouts to insurance corps (Medicare Advantage), 100's of billions to big pharma (Medicare part D), 2 unfunded and unbudgeted wars. 7.5 trillion dollars of debt by the time the Bush budget ran its course (fiscal year 2009). link:Debt figures

So the real question for the Republicans to answer to the American people, or at least the other 99% that they rarely seem to think about, is why? Of course, the Republican leadership, Boehner, McConnell, Cantor,Ryan, have all given voice, in no uncertain terms,as to what their main and only goal has been, and still is. So you really don't have to be a rocket scientist to work it out.

By the way saw an interesting bumper sticker the other day. "One party will kill a million jobs to get one". But then who pays any attention to bumper stickers these days anyway?

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 22 Nov 11 - 04:09 AM

NOT TO MENTION THE INSIDER TRADING IPO'S
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 22 Nov 11 - 04:42 AM

...and with all of that(the previous posts), music, art, and dance feeds the soul...and causes remembrance to who you really are! Like I said before, 'We have a MORAL problem!'

Fuck politics!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 22 Nov 11 - 01:05 PM

How lucky we are to have the input of one so superior to so many others is so many ways.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Don Firth
Date: 22 Nov 11 - 01:57 PM

And people on this thread have been saying much of what is said in the cut-and-paste articles above. Many from "The Daily KOS."

Quelle suprise!!

Nothing to learn here that I don't already know, so I'm off to more productive endeavors.

By the way, GfS, you obviously haven't noticed that many of us whom you accuse of sitting safely at home and urging the OWS demonstrators to go get pepper-sprayed have SPENT CONSIDERABLE TIME OUT THERE ON THE FRONT LINES WITH THE DEMONSTRATORS. ME, FOR ONE.

What have YOU been doing all this time? Besides sneering.

So long. I'm gone. Got a demonstration to go to.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 22 Nov 11 - 04:07 PM

Not fair Don. GfS is unregistered, for all we know she may be Michael Moore.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 22 Nov 11 - 07:03 PM

Just for those who think OWS is a pro-Obama rally, guess who got mic-checked today?!?

It was beautiful.

Judge his handling of it for yourselves (be sure to watch the video)

MIC CHECK !

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/occupy-protestor-hands-president-obama-note-201229558.html

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Bobert
Date: 22 Nov 11 - 07:25 PM

Got ripped off, TIA... Sat thru a Home Depot (Booooooo!!!) and then found that the Obama clip had been erased... BTW, the CEO of Home Depot is the Grand Wizard of the ObamaHateBrigade...

Boycott Home Depot!!!

As for the GUEST??? I don't read the junk anymore... She is a Republican trying to appear to be some Kucinich progressive... She/he is a LIAR... Period...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 23 Nov 11 - 03:41 AM

I'm not sure whether they've missed the point about protesting against capitalism, but the "Occupy Cardiff" protest have set up their encampment outside Transport House. (The local TUC(Trades Union Congress) headquarters): Here

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,999
Date: 23 Nov 11 - 10:18 AM

From: Michael Moore
Date: 22 November 2011
Subject: Where Does Occupy Wall Street Go From Here? ...a proposal from Michael Moore


Where Does Occupy Wall Street Go From Here? ...a proposal from Michael Moore

Tuesday, November 22nd, 2011

Friends,

This past weekend I participated in a four-hour meeting of Occupy Wall Street activists whose job it is to come up with the vision and goals of the movement. It was attended by 40+ people and the discussion was both inspiring and invigorating. Here is what we ended up proposing as the movement's "vision statement" to the General Assembly of Occupy Wall Street:

We Envision: [1] a truly free, democratic, and just society; [2] where we, the people, come together and solve our problems by consensus; [3] where people are encouraged to take personal and collective responsibility and participate in decision making; [4] where we learn to live in harmony and embrace principles of toleration and respect for diversity and the differing views of others; [5] where we secure the civil and human rights of all from violation by tyrannical forces and unjust governments; [6] where political and economic institutions work to benefit all, not just the privileged few; [7] where we provide full and free education to everyone, not merely to get jobs but to grow and flourish as human beings; [8] where we value human needs over monetary gain, to ensure decent standards of living without which effective democracy is impossible; [9] where we work together to protect the global environment to ensure that future generations will have safe and clean air, water and food supplies, and will be able to enjoy the beauty and bounty of nature that past generations have enjoyed.

The next step will be to develop a specific list of goals and demands. As one of the millions of people who are participating in the Occupy Wall Street movement, I would like to respectfully offer my suggestions of what we can all get behind now to wrestle the control of our country out of the hands of the 1% and place it squarely with the 99% majority.

Here is what I will propose to the General Assembly of Occupy Wall Street:

10 Things We Want
A Proposal for Occupy Wall Street
Submitted by Michael Moore
1. Eradicate the Bush tax cuts for the rich and institute new taxes on the wealthiest Americans and on corporations, including a tax on all trading on Wall Street (where they currently pay 0%).

2. Assess a penalty tax on any corporation that moves American jobs to other countries when that company is already making profits in America. Our jobs are the most important national treasure and they cannot be removed from the country simply because someone wants to make more money.

3. Require that all Americans pay the same Social Security tax on all of their earnings (normally, the middle class pays about 6% of their income to Social Security; someone making $1 million a year pays about 0.6% (or 90% less than the average person). This law would simply make the rich pay what everyone else pays.

4. Reinstate the Glass-Steagall Act, placing serious regulations on how business is conducted by Wall Street and the banks.

5. Investigate the Crash of 2008, and bring to justice those who committed any crimes.

6. Reorder our nation's spending priorities (including the ending of all foreign wars and their cost of over $2 billion a week). This will re-open libraries, reinstate band and art and civics classes in our schools, fix our roads and bridges and infrastructure, wire the entire country for 21st century internet, and support scientific research that improves our lives.

7. Join the rest of the free world and create a single-payer, free and universal health care system that covers all Americans all of the time.

8. Immediately reduce carbon emissions that are destroying the planet and discover ways to live without the oil that will be depleted and gone by the end of this century.

9. Require corporations with more than 10,000 employees to restructure their board of directors so that 50% of its members are elected by the company's workers. We can never have a real democracy as long as most people have no say in what happens at the place they spend most of their time: their job. (For any U.S. businesspeople freaking out at this idea because you think workers can't run a successful company: Germany has a law like this and it has helped to make Germany the world's leading manufacturing exporter.)

10. We, the people, must pass three constitutional amendments that will go a long way toward fixing the core problems we now have. These include:

a) A constitutional amendment that fixes our broken electoral system by 1) completely removing campaign contributions from the political process; 2) requiring all elections to be publicly financed; 3) moving election day to the weekend to increase voter turnout; 4) making all Americans registered voters at the moment of their birth; 5) banning computerized voting and requiring that all elections take place on paper ballots.

b) A constitutional amendment declaring that corporations are not people and do not have the constitutional rights of citizens. This amendment should also state that the interests of the general public and society must always come before the interests of corporations.

c) A constitutional amendment that will act as a "second bill of rights" as proposed by President Frankin D. Roosevelt: that every American has a human right to employment, to health care, to a free and full education, to breathe clean air, drink clean water and eat safe food, and to be cared for with dignity and respect in their old age.

Let me know what you think. Occupy Wall Street enjoys the support of millions. It is a movement that cannot be stopped. Become part of it by sharing your thoughts with me or online (at OccupyWallSt.org). Get involved in (or start!) your own local Occupy movement. Make some noise. You don't have to pitch a tent in lower Manhattan to be an Occupier. You are one just by saying you are. This movement has no singular leader or spokesperson; every participant is a leader in their neighborhood, their school, their place of work. Each of you is a spokesperson to those whom you encounter. There are no dues to pay, no permission to seek in order to create an action.

We are but ten weeks old, yet we have already changed the national conversation. This is our moment, the one we've been hoping for, waiting for. If it's going to happen it has to happen now. Don't sit this one out. This is the real deal. This is it.

Have a happy Thanksgiving!

Yours,
Michael Moore
[e-mail]
@MMFlint
MichaelMoore.com

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 23 Nov 11 - 11:23 AM

Bet you can't guess which "News" station defended the pepper spraying of students sitting and singing on a walkway with the line "It's a food product actually
".

Oh wait, how did you guess so quickly?

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,999
Date: 23 Nov 11 - 11:41 AM

TIA, what a surprise.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: akenaton
Date: 23 Nov 11 - 12:14 PM

How does Mr Moore propose to persuade people that the lifestyle to which they have become accustomed is no longer viable, yet allow the capitalist system to grind on unhindered?

The benefits he proposes are unobtainable under the present system.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,999
Date: 23 Nov 11 - 01:04 PM

Fair question, Ake. You can post that comment/question on his blog at

[e-mail]

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Bobert
Date: 23 Nov 11 - 01:13 PM

Why is it no longer viable, Ake??? The US is still the wealiest country on Earth... There is no reason at all why out kids can't have well paying jobs and live well... That's what OWS is about...

The idea that we're all going to end up living in poverty is nothing but horseshit propagated by the 1%... It's only true if OWS fails to bring about the fundamental changes that are long overdue in America...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Don Firth
Date: 23 Nov 11 - 01:37 PM

So, Ake, we alter the system.

By the way 9, thanks for posting that! Excellent!

It's a national sport to dump on Michael Moore, but that man knows where his towel is.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,999
Date: 23 Nov 11 - 02:59 PM

Thank you, Don. I have always liked Moore and it's great to see a guy of his integrity and renown speaking but not trying to co-opt the movement for his own purposes. He has been calling a spade a shovel for many years.

I wish you could have been with us all last night. At the Quebec Writers' Federation awards, Lazer Lederhendler (award for translation) said that no country can be free without the voices of the arts, and our prime minister (Harper) is doing his best to cut funding and mute voices. He went on to say that because we are the 99%, we just won't allow that to happen. He received a loud round of applause for his brief acceptance speech.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 25 Nov 11 - 02:00 AM

By the way Bobert, which 'side' of the Democrats are the 'right' ones, in this matter?
Awaiting Bobert's DODGE!.......unless he has an answer!..Let's see what he gives

I just got back....and WILL address some of your posts...but I'm going to crash for the night.

And BTW....I'm NOT pretending to be 'progressive'..nor did I even know about 'KOS'..until I went to Wikipedia, after Don's post....and....being as you say I'm a 'she', and at the same time Michael Moore, I guess before I make another public appearance, I'll get some liposuction, and a 'tummy tuck'..if you seem me that way, you might be RIGHT!...............(but if not..............)
oh, and one more...

Jack the Sailor: "Not fair Don. GfS is unregistered, for all we know she may be Michael Moore."

Not registered???..Jeez! How come you argue in favor of illegal, undocumented aliens to our country...then bitch that I'm unregistered in Mudcat???
Can't you live up to your double standards???

...and speaking of which:

Don applauds 999 for CUT AND PASTING a letter from Michael Moore, who is saying virtually the same thing, from his blog, and pisses his pants when he THOUGHT I 'cut and pasted' from KOS????(Which I didn't, BTW). Another 'Can't you live up to your double standards???' award goes to Don!

(Open mouth-insert feet!).

And Bobert, It would serve you well to read those longer posts, and click the links I posted. You might even learn something more than how to parrot 'talking points'!

Good night..gotta crash.
Happy Thanksgiving!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Nov 11 - 08:22 AM

I did alleast read the last part of you pots, GfinS... No thanks on the longer ones... They are like reading pure mythology because half the things you say to sound like you half give a shit get negated by your own self somewhere else... There is no consistency... Just quantity...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 25 Nov 11 - 02:18 PM

Bobert: "There is no consistency... Just quantity..."

WHAT!!!!!????????

Jeez! You are just beyond 'gone'.
Maybe, you should take another look at you allegiance, to everything you think you 'party' 'is at'.....and hold it up to the light of 'integrity'. ...and that goes the same for Republicans, as well....and seriously compare their 'practices' of most all parties.....and then empathize with the heart of humanity.
Square peg-Round hole!

Reach humanity, and interject care, and trust, and love, into the social conscious.....and you will be doing humanity a service.........don't ya' think?


On Your Side,
GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Don Firth
Date: 25 Nov 11 - 02:57 PM

Did somebody break wind? I'm sure I heard somebody break wind!

Jeez! Open a window!!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: gnu
Date: 25 Nov 11 - 04:13 PM

I didn't break wind. I shit myself when I read some of the posts tho.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 25 Nov 11 - 04:40 PM

Don: "Did somebody break wind? I'm sure I heard somebody break wind!"

Jeez, and I only thought you just pissed in your pants!

Nice avoidance, Don.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: bobad
Date: 25 Nov 11 - 04:44 PM

99 percenters emulating 1 percenters: video

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Nov 11 - 05:19 PM

Listen, GfinS, here's the deal...

Complain about $$$ in politics...

Complain about disenfranchisement of voters...

Complain about the way we redistrict...

Complain that the two party system sucks...

Those are all things with which Dennis Kucinich and OWS agree...

But to buy into the idea that the government itself is the problem is the oldest Republican trick in the book... No, government isn't the problem... Bad government is the problem... The US is getting its ass kicked by every country in the world that doesn't see their government as the problem...

You can call for the Federal Reserve to be dismantled and then after it is complain that there our currency is getting the shit kicked out of it... See that is Rick Perry, the D student in Economics, talking... The reason that the US is falling behind is because the D students have joined forces with the polluters and crooks and formed a coalition... The polluters and crooks just hire the D students to run the government...

That is the problem... No the Fed... Not a Department of Energy... Not a Department of Commerce... Not federal workers... Not the EPA... Not the Department of Education...

Crooks and polluters are the problem!!!

The End...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Don Firth
Date: 25 Nov 11 - 05:37 PM

All sphincters are perfectly functional, GfS.

Read what Bobert wrote just above and learn something. It'll be a unique new experience for you.

Just trying to help you get through the world without banging your forehead so often.   :-}

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 26 Nov 11 - 12:43 AM

Bobert: "But to buy into the idea that the government itself is the problem is the oldest Republican trick in the book... No, government isn't the problem... Bad government is the problem... "

ABSO-FUCKING-LUTELY!

Bobert: "You can call for the Federal Reserve to be dismantled and then after it is complain that there our currency is getting the shit kicked out of it..."

Well, here's a thought on the matter, being as Wall Street and the banksters have had attention drawn to them...and correctly so, as I've posted before, being as we are ALL anticipating a financial hit, and cut backs to benefits, and other things that it takes to run things....and being as the larger than necessary budget is out of control...why not cut back on the biggest wasteful part of the budget...the compounded interest by the Fed(a PRIVATE BANKING 'GROUP'). OR, at least a moratorium...letting our taxes directly fund the programs, instead of wasting it on the 'interest' to fund 'programs and projects'! The privately owned 'central bank' (Fed)and its Wall Street laundering mechanisms, can damn well carry some of the load, rather than shifting the load to us regular folks, just to keep the private banking concerns living high on the hog, at our expense! There would be funds EASILY...to finance the vital services, and entitlements, defense, etc. etc. without that corrupt, unaccountable monkey on our backs...don't you think...as mentioned by you, as well, when you went on to say, "...The polluters and crooks just hire the D students to run the government..."

In other words, CORRUPT Government!


As far as Rick Perry, I posted here, that he was going to enter, who was backing him, right before he entered, and his 'meteoric rise'...(at the beginning). Thank God he's fallen in the polls, and support!

Now this part,
"That is the problem... No the Fed... Not a Department of Energy... Not a Department of Commerce... Not federal workers... Not the EPA... Not the Department of Education..."

..you are assuming I'm working off the talking points of the Repubs...I'm not. I've heard the stuff that is out there, but I'm not in agreement with all that either.

Bobert: "Crooks and polluters are the problem!!!"

In other words, "CORRUPTION!"....especially when our representatives get a payoff, for a pass.

...and by the way, THANK you, for a post with real dialogue!

Though we differ a little, solutions can be arrived at by a true exchange of IDEAS!....not so much just repeating what ANY given party, or ideology, WANTS us to be talking about. MAYBE, just maybe, as the OWS crowd has opened a door...MAYBE our crooked 'representatives' should be talking about what WE...WE the people, are talking about....or pack up and get the fuck out of Dodge!

Whether you are a 'liberal', 'progressive', conservative, OWS, Tea Party...ALL have a bit of the truth, and WE, as in 'WE the people' need to come to a reconciliation of what we CAN AGREE on, and let the crooks know, that we ain't buyin' their lying sales pitches ANY LONGER!

By the way.....as a side note: on one of my earlier posts, there was a link, to sign a petition, that would foment legislation, to prosecute the banksters who fraudulently 'robo-signed' home foreclosures, for the banks(due to that screwed up con job, under the guise of getting everyone who couldn't afford payments, into a home, so they could be fucked out of it, and the housing market crisis that followed it, in its wake)....In California, the FIRST charges, have FINALLY been filed on one of the 'robo-signers', and the bank!!
Now, once they got there, the RICO statute could, and should be applied to take it all the way to the top, of the food chain....and nail everyone of those bastards, regardless of party, position, or 'importance in stature'.....I think you could agree with that.
....and would America be surprised to learn of the 'who's who, in that list of crooks!......even people who they elected(blindly)!

OH, and P.S......Don, you can spare your extra 'Depends'...the above post was not cut and pasted.

Nice to post rationally, again, with you, Bobert.......but what of that thing about the top Dems not wanting Obama to run again......?

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 26 Nov 11 - 03:10 AM

...and by the way.....

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 26 Nov 11 - 05:33 PM

does GfS have a beef??..should you?

Hi, Bobert...BTW Grayson is a Democrat..Good job...for HIM!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 26 Nov 11 - 05:47 PM

Obama's Boy Timmy Geithner

Ok, then, What the hell IS the Democratic Party's position?????????..and what about the divide, within the party, with Obama????

Bobert??..Don??? Jack????

Be nice..its an honest question.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Nov 11 - 06:35 PM

Welcome back from the Tea Party, GfinS... A while back your position was that of Rick Perry's on the Fed... When you are not advocating throwing thr baby out with the bathwater then, yeah, you can make some valid points...

The problem I have is that you have not been consistent at all in those regards... One day you are Dennis Kucinich... The next you are a rabid Tea Partier who just thinks we should blow up the government...

Who are you???

As for Geithner??? Wouldn't be my choice but Obama *has* tried to walk a moderate line with Republicans for his first 3 years... Geithner is more than likely a died-in-the-wool Republican but his appointment hasn't gotten Obama one single break from Wall Street... That's less on Obama than the crook and polluters who aren't happy getting 80% of things their way... They want no regs what so ever so they can go back and pull off another meltdown to further redistribute wealth to them...

I don't hear your Tea Party folks clamoring to jail Wall Street crooks and you won't because the Tea Party is owned by the Fat Cats...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Nov 11 - 06:52 PM

BTW, get the $$$ out of elections and the rest will take care of itself...

But your Tea Party, GfinS, loves them BIG $$$s that the Kock brothers spread around the country buying elections in places where they don't live or do business... They don't live in NC or do business here but gave BIG $$$ to every Republican house campaign in 2010...

But I guess you think that's okay???

Crooks won't be stopped until we quit allowing them to buy elections...

Period...

Federally funded federal elections is the only answer... No loopholes... No corporations are people... No 527s... No loopholes... No Center for American Progress... No loopholes...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 27 Nov 11 - 03:19 PM

1) Money out of politics
2) Reinstate Glass-Steagall
3) Close the loophole that lets congresspeople make investments based on insider information

And they say we don't know what we want.
Sheesh.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Don Firth
Date: 27 Nov 11 - 03:48 PM

GfS:   "What the hell IS the Democratic Party's position????????? . . .
"Bobert??..Don??? Jack????"

You're asking me? How the hell should I know? Go ask a Democrat!

I DO know what MY position is, however. Pretty close to what Michael Moore said, plus a couple of other things.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 27 Nov 11 - 04:56 PM

Bobert: "Welcome back from the Tea Party, GfinS... A while back your position was that of Rick Perry's on the Fed... When you are not advocating throwing thr baby out with the bathwater then, yeah, you can make some valid points..."...etc. etc.

Bobert, with all due respects, you could have gone back to my posts, DURING and AROUND the elections, BEFORE there even was a 'Tea Party' and you will see my comments have been either the same focus, or subject. Let's not allow the 'partisan filter' of perception, taint the topic of deeper, root causes.

Mudcat, and our band of troubadours, could really be a positive note,..and MIGHT even come up with some great stuff, even in the way of solutions, rather than merely 'try to convince' the 'already tired of hearing about it', people. At least, in the '60's, when music had a direct influence, onto, and into the social conscience of our people, we weren't spewing the same political rhetoric, that was misleading the establishment. We were LEADERS in thought, not sheep, parrots or lemmings.

Just hoping everyone is 'considering'.

Regards,
GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: akenaton
Date: 27 Nov 11 - 05:21 PM

Mr Moore's diatribe is not policy, but a wish list.

He may as well have addressed it to Mr Claus.

Look at this fron Tia....
1) Money out of politics
2) Reinstate Glass-Steagall
3) Close the loophole that lets congresspeople make investments based on insider information"

Commendable, but does anyone think that addresses the problems facing Western society?....Grow up guys!

Steinbeck understood the problem 80 years ago, the only surprising thing is that this system has survived so long on robbery and exploitation.

"The bank — the monster has to have profits all the time. It can't wait. It'll die. No, taxes go on. When the monster stops growing, it dies. It can't stay one size....." "It's not us, it's the bank. The bank isn't like a man. Or an owner with 50,000 acres, he isn't like a man either. That's the monster...."(The "bank" has now become the Global Capilalist System)

Yes, "the monster" is dying....thank God, but it will only stay that way, if we unite and "stand over its grave...'till we're sure that its dead"(Dylan)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Nov 11 - 07:46 PM

Yeah, GfinS... I do remember your comments prior to the election... They were Obama-hate comments...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 27 Nov 11 - 10:24 PM

Akenaton
You piss and moan and say nothing constructive.
Fuck the hell off or make a concrete suggestion 'kay?

GfS
You flirt with intelligence and relevance.
A few less Tea Party talking points and you would be dead on.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Don Firth
Date: 27 Nov 11 - 10:31 PM

Of course it will never happen, Ake, as long as we listen to people who keep saying it can't be done.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 27 Nov 11 - 10:32 PM

Akenaton
I apologize.
I suspect we agree quite a bit on this.
But what exactly do you think people should be doing.
All I hear you saying is "grow up" and "wake up".
I am grown up. I am awake.
What exactly do you suggest?
Or do you want us to sit passively and watch the mosnter die?
I prefer action.
Do you suggest any?

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Nov 11 - 10:45 PM

Nay-Sayers = Republicans...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 27 Nov 11 - 10:45 PM

Flirt???? Nope....but a little satirical dry humor....
Tea Party????...Nope, but like I posted earlier....ALL of the parties or 'splinter groups' have a bit of the truth. The problem is, the controllers, at the top, are 'working it', for their 'solution'....OH, and BTW, the 'controllers at the top', are ALL 1%ers. Go figure who's zooming who....and a LOT of factions, of all parties have bought into it. As long as the 'OWS' crowd, has opened the topic, 'seizing the moment', would be a GREAT opening...but NOT to argue party politics....because the root causes, are bigger, than the individual parties, 'solutions', or complaints.

And TIA, you've read enough of my posts, to know that any similarity between what I've been saying, and the Tea Party, or Progressives, or Democrat, or Republican, or OWS is because, EACH of those group's concerns, are rooted into part of the truth...ALL of them have spun them to one degree or another, depending on which1%er is backing them, and their agenda....for profit, or political position.....and playing to their audience.
Consider it, without bias...it fits, and works.

Thanks for the Flowers, though..

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 27 Nov 11 - 10:52 PM

Bobert: "Nay-Sayers = Republicans..."


'Bobert, Nay-Sayers = Republicans...' is Nay-Saying.

We are bigger, than that.....and that 'bigness' lives in a LOT of people, just waiting to have some of the dots connected...and they'll be connecting their own, before long.....but it may be PEOPLE representing people, instead of parties pretending to represent people!

GfS

P.S. Just imagine............................if The 'Mudcat' Forum, was more accurate.....than the corporate 'news' INDUSTRY!
Just a thought.....................

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Nov 11 - 11:15 PM

Oh really, GfinS???

Just a day or so after Rick Perry attacks the Feds you jump right in...

Tea Party mythology...

You need to figure out what your core values are... You are all over the place...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Nov 11 - 11:27 PM

BTW, should the US ever be able to manipulate it's currency as a mean to make it more competitive??? Or should we just sit on our hands and go "Gee wizz, we lost"???

Like the Fed or not it is the US's tool to compete, GfinS...

A "War and Peace" length post on your part won't change that...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 28 Nov 11 - 12:35 AM

Bobert: "Oh really, GfinS???

Just a day or so after Rick Perry attacks the Feds you jump right in...

Tea Party mythology..."


OH YEAH????????


From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 28 Aug 11 - 04:16 AM

The lunatic fringe are singin' to their choir again!
Who gives a hooting rat's ass about the Tea party?!? If you spent half the time doing your homework, about what is really going on, instead of throwing mud on everybody else, you'd soon find out that the Democratic Party, as the Republican Party is just as fucked up as the Tea Party!!..Not only that, you might even find out why!!
So pat yourselves on the back, whip up some enthusiasm, encourage each other more, to hate, slander, slur and curse everybody who isn't agreeing with you....but nobody hears you...unless you fart, and the words you said, form a gas bubble..and squeeze out by your neck!
Obama has to be the biggest disappointment, the Democrats have ever deluded themselves with!
Get over it!

AND:

From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 10 Aug 11 - 05:37 AM


"So when you hear the debate about 'raising the debt ceiling' that issue is merely widening our ability to afford more borrowing, for..you guessed it again, feeding these bastards! I hold suspect ANY politician, and news media outlet, who are under the control, of the IMF(Tim Geitner, and therefore, Obama), along with international banking organizations, and their ilk. Watch for the rise of Rick Perry for President. He's the one they are backing, this time around. Watch his 'meteoric' rise in news coverage, for name recognition. When you see it, note the tactics. Note the groundswell...."

************************************************

Me??? Living in the past???? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO...just Sane.
Two EXACT calls BEFORE it happened......yeah, I guess MY thinking is fucked up, huh?

Pardon me if I continue NOT adopting YOUR mindset!!!
Actually, Don, YOU ARE the one who could "learn something"

GfS

P.S. Lucky guesses???.....I wonder how GfS does it!

GfS

8888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888

BOBERT: "Just a day or so after Rick Perry attacks the Feds you jump right in..."

WRONG AGAIN, OL' CHAP!!

BTW, as I was looking for those past posts, I noticed A LOT of posts citing the 'Fed', and denouncing Perry, as one of their(the bankers) puppets. You should take a little stroll through some past posts....and THEN see who has been consistent, AND BEFORE the OWS, or BEFORE Perry..OR BEFORE the Tea Party!

jezz....wasting a lot of time awaiting the 'news' to 'catch up'....and yet, you STILL ignore what I've been ACCURATELY telling you!
How come the Democrats (or Republicans) have been so INACCURATE?????
Ever wonder what they are hiding, and working around?????

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,999
Date: 28 Nov 11 - 07:21 PM

OWS deserves more respect than this, imo.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Nov 11 - 07:45 PM

Yes, brucie, it does...

The noise machine thinks that it can drown out the real story...

Normal...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Don Firth
Date: 28 Nov 11 - 08:31 PM

In the same way that it flamed out as a family counselor some threads back, it hasn't been able to cut it as a political analyst (or should that be anal-ist?) either.

Considering the level of abilities and talents it has displayed so far, I think I know of a job it might have enough smarts to handle reasonably well:

Attaching the strings to tea bags.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Nov 11 - 08:34 PM

Well qualified, Don...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 28 Nov 11 - 09:03 PM

The problem is not with the troll. It is the troll feeders.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 28 Nov 11 - 09:45 PM

My, my, my..the three accusers, trying to suppress, the real story, and shove bullshit in it's place.

Why does this not surprise me....or others.....

So, being as this IS a music forum, I thought, 'Why not enlist our three professors into song!

They could call themselves 'BoDoJac'...and take it out on the road!

So here they are Ladies and Gentlemen, the swingin' sounds of "BoDoJac "

t matters NOT if you actually learn something from them....just so long as they are 'professors'!..(a legend in their own wine)!

GfS

P.S. BTW, notice how they are unable to comment, intelligently, on some posts that were pretty heavy?..Out of their depth!..and into the 'snide'!

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Nov 11 - 10:24 PM

Ain't no suppression here, GfinS...

You have out posted everyone here and given the volume of your posts you have probably posted more words than everyone else combined... Reams and reams of posts... Posts on top of posts...

Reminds me of an old Woody Allen: "Don't go to that restaurant, the food is lousy and portions are small" except in your case it's BIG portions...

You have laid down your markers... You hate the government... You hate Obama... You expose Tea Party positions while trying to look "classless and free", progressive, cool... You ain't none of them things... You expose Republican talking positions couched with as much fake progressive flowers that you think you need to garnish your bullshit stew as to make it (in your mind) edible... It ain't...

You have laid out your markers and they are not progressive... They are not liberal... They are Republican...

No thanks...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 28 Nov 11 - 10:26 PM

Troll feeder.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 28 Nov 11 - 11:03 PM

Bullshit!....You guys just got caught adopting a 'party line' instead of ANY truth, with supporting facts, to back it up...and you just plain don't like it!
Maybe YOU are the ones who should RE-CONSIDER your trips!..because they're all full of holes.......(among 'other' things').

You got facts??? post them!
You don't??
Just keep hiding and dodging behind stupid slurs, as you have been!
It's pretty obvious now...and at this point!

Got a FACT?...Then POST IT!

I've been supporting, with PRACTICAL things, that which you only have snide 'nothing'!....because you ran out of talking points!
Do some HOMEWORK!
What have I posted that was not true??

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 28 Nov 11 - 11:13 PM

You can tell this guy was really a 'Republican'..according to Bobert!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Don Firth
Date: 28 Nov 11 - 11:22 PM

Not "from" insanity, Bobert. It's still THERE!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 28 Nov 11 - 11:24 PM

Don: "Not "from" insanity, Bobert. It's still THERE!

Don Firth"

Got a FACT, Don?

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Don Firth
Date: 28 Nov 11 - 11:32 PM

That's almost too good an opening to pass up. . . .

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 28 Nov 11 - 11:50 PM

Don: "That's almost too good an opening to pass up. . . .
Don Firth"

But, you can't come up with anything relevant or true, or productive...so, you'd rather agitate....for NOTHING!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Don Firth
Date: 29 Nov 11 - 12:34 AM

How's this for a fact?

You're a nincompoop.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 29 Nov 11 - 01:00 AM

...but can you back it up??

Never mind..you guys have been exposed, plenty enough.
This thread was getting pretty serious, but you've brought it down to a level of banality.
Keep it!
Too bad...a shame!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Don Firth
Date: 29 Nov 11 - 01:16 AM

I don't have to back it up, GoofuS. Every time you post, you back it up for me.

Thanks!

Don Firth

P. S. Past my bedtime. I'll be back with facts a-plenty tomorrow. Prepare to be buried in them.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 29 Nov 11 - 01:36 AM

Stick to the topic.
I don't want to play your games. This thread was going somewhere.

Oh, as far as me backing it up...just scroll down, and look how you three diverted it.

Typical tactics....then they blame me!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Melissa
Date: 29 Nov 11 - 04:01 AM

Is it possible to have a thread on this subject that doesn't choke on ninnyblather?

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 29 Nov 11 - 05:44 AM

It seems, sadly, that members would rather bicker with GfS.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Bobert
Date: 29 Nov 11 - 06:52 AM

I wouldn't, Jack...

I'd rather be talking about OWS... Unfortunately, either there ain't a lot going on now or the BIG MEDIA has OWS back on their blacklist... Maybe a little of both...

No matter... Like I have said before... OWS has accomplished it's main mission in changing the conversation and quieting the right wing noise machine... The American people no longer believe the corporate bullshit that they need all these favors because they are out there creating jobs... How this will play out down the road will be interesting...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Don Firth
Date: 29 Nov 11 - 02:43 PM

It seems that OWS is not in the news quite as much this past week or so, but that's not because it isn't still very much there.

Here in Washington State, the state legislature is meeting in Olympia, the state capitol, to argue over some $2 billion dollars in budget cuts that will cut various services, mostly to those who need them the most. Unions and social service groups are there in force, along with some 3,000 rank-and-file citizen protesters occupying the capitol campus.

Governor Gregoire and the state legislators definitely know they are there! And they vote!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 29 Nov 11 - 03:54 PM

Occupy Wilmington, NC is still going pretty strong. A 16 year old young man got arrested yesterday for arguing about the closing of a camp site.

It seems to me that GfS has no clear goals or philosophy other than to disrupt threads about progressive topics. If you must engage her. please take it to another thread. Otherwise she will quickly make the whole thread about her.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Don Firth
Date: 29 Nov 11 - 04:26 PM

You're right, Jack. She's here only to disrupt and focus on herself. I don't need the aggrevation. Her insults and goading means nothing to me because I have no respect for her opinion about anything.

So from here on in, GfS doesn't exist.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 29 Nov 11 - 05:20 PM

ows cartoons

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Bobert
Date: 29 Nov 11 - 05:49 PM

Jesus said "shake the dust from your robes"...

Ya' don't have to be a Christian to understand that...

GfinS isn't part of this discussion...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: akenaton
Date: 29 Nov 11 - 06:54 PM

"You're right, Jack. She's here only to disrupt and focus on herself. I don't need the aggrevation. Her insults and goading means nothing to me because I have no respect for her opinion about anything.

So from here on in, GfS doesn't exist."


So George Orwell was right!!   "liberal" Fascism lives!

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Don Firth
Date: 29 Nov 11 - 07:09 PM

And how is my ignoring a hate-filled, foul-mouthed, self-aggrandizing windbag who adds nothing to the discussion "liberal Fascism," Ake? Explain yourself.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 29 Nov 11 - 07:33 PM

How is taking Akeneton's bait talking about OWS?

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Bobert
Date: 29 Nov 11 - 08:08 PM

More dust on the robe than one...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 29 Nov 11 - 10:27 PM

Good!....Now we can move on from how pissed off everybody is, and channeling it to each other, and move to finding the truth.....to find a solution!
While I don't 'fault' one for being a Democrat, Republican, Progressive, Liberal(at least a real one), Tea Partier, OWS, sometimes one must question, whether the 'leadership' of all those groups, are as sincere, as the people who are believing in them....and if not, 'Why?'
From most the evidence, that I've seen, 'No', nor are they trusted, by any other groups, who don't agree with them.
Granted, this is potentially as massive as a problem, as any America has faced, in it's history.....Therefore, SOMEWHERE, there has to be people, anywhere, somewhere...as a group, who may not agree, BUT can come together, hammer it out...get to the truth(no matter how disappointing, the discovery)...and lead the way, into UNITING,....and taking out the support away, from those who are not being honest, and put pressure on those who do, to be straight!

Jeez..Got any remote ideas where to start?...........maybe here? Maybe NOT in the streets that become violent???
Maybe a 'Sane', practical remedy?

The choice is ours?...isn't it?

GfS

P.S. It is now!

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Melissa
Date: 29 Nov 11 - 10:45 PM

Do the groups seem to be sticking with the same type of gathering now that they've been around a while, or are they sort of branching out and being visible in other ways?

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 29 Nov 11 - 11:20 PM

Melissa, as I posted early on,...the groups, now that they got the public BEGINNING to ask the 'right' questions, now is the time to not rely so much on the gatherings, even though they can help, and hopefully be intelligent and focused, but to the ROOT causes...NOW is the time to find out 'WHY?', 'WHO?' and 'WHAT?'..no matter where the chips fall...and MOVE to have those parties dealt with, in the legal system, and set up guidelines that would prohibit this fraud from continuing.
To promote ANY agenda, but this one, at this time, could be a 'play' into the hands of the architects of it all. Best to ENFORCE the laws we have, and adjust the ones, that are actually loop holes, for the corruption, between the Banksters, Brokers, Politicians, and Lobbyists, or ANY other vampire 'special interests'....including those that were 'instituted' to service the 'special interests'...for ANY other reason than the TRUTH!

As I posted before, its NOT a 'political' problem, it's a MORAL problem!

If you've been reading for a little while on this thread, scroll back and review the posts(stupid snide ones omit!)

the problem a LOT of people are having, is trying to 'FIT' the answers, into political party's 'remedies'....reason is, they can't be trusted! ...reason why....Corruption!...by WHO?..the very people the politicians are reluctant to take action against....WHY?..because they are corrupting each other, and the governmental system itself, to accommodate them!...BOTH PARTIES, no doubt about it. It NEEDS to be cleaned up!!

Scroll back...got good links, as well,that backs up what I've been saying......then, let's talk. Give me your feedback. Try not to be diverted...(you've been doin' great!)

Regards,
GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 29 Nov 11 - 11:32 PM

I propose that anyone only respond to positive suggestions from the hero of "lansing" and "Cecil". All else is self-serving "make me the center of attention" bullshit.
Not insightful.
Not helpful.
Not caring.
Just a pathetic attempt to be important.
It is really sad.
IMHO.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 30 Nov 11 - 11:32 AM

Was that supposed to be a 'helpful, positive' post?

Don't answer......let's stay on topic, ok?

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: akenaton
Date: 30 Nov 11 - 12:16 PM

1...How do any of you know that GfS is a woman.....I have no idea what gender he/she is.

2.... Don, I dont know if you realise this, but you have made a dreadful statement against GfS, in calling him/her a "non person".
You infer that his/her opinions are completely worthless, not worthy of even consideration
You say that I am a bigot for my views, yet I would never dismiss the views of you or any other person as you have done.
If I was a moderator, I would put you off the forum for such an attitude.
To my mind, what you have written is worse that racism, homophobia, or any other form of bigotry.
3...Bob, sorry but I just dont understand the bit about "dust on the robe".....could you please explain? As I think it may have been directed at me.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Nov 11 - 12:57 PM

No problem, Ake... There are people whose actions and behaviors are such that they really aren't worth your time... That is what Jesus was talking about... "Shake the dust off your robe+, i.e. move on...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 30 Nov 11 - 02:01 PM

Akenaton. Your last thread has nothing to do with OWS are you trolling too?

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Don Firth
Date: 30 Nov 11 - 02:23 PM

I'm sorry, Jack, but this has to be said. Then, no more on the subject of GfS from me. I, too, want to get back to the subject at hand because there is a lot going on and a lot to talk about

-----------

Ake, be fair.

For the past couple of years and over a number of threads, GfS has made a practice of taking the contrarian view, no matter what the subject, to the point where he or she contradicts what they have said in previous threads—and sometimes on different posts on the same thread.

While doing this, GfS is rude and often foul-mouthed (foul-keyboarded?), insulting the intelligence of anyone who disagrees with anything in his/her rambling rants. Anyone who has to use the sort of language GfS uses is verging on the contemptible and is responsible for the degeneration of any kind of political debate these days. He/she refers to Hilary Clinton as "Hitlery" and President Obama as "O-blab-o" and repeated calls him a "liar" and "stupid," WITHOUT saying anything specific about what lies he allegedly told, or examples of his "stupidity" (a one-time lecturer at an Ivy League university and editor of a highly respected law review).

He calls Bobert, me, and others "loony liberals" and other such ill-defined epithets without really knowing anything about our political positions other than that we are not pro-Right Wing. In fact, he/she argues FOR the Right Wing, while at the same time saying that both the Republican and Democratic Parties are corrupt—which IS true, and which Bobert, me, and others have already said repeatedly. GfS has not, at any time, delineated or indicated by implication ANY cohesive political position, or recommended any course of political action that he/she thinks people should follow.

In short, GfS is a blowviator. He/she's on these threads to stir things up, divert the thread from its subject (which he keeps accusing me of doing whenever I challenge something he/she says). GfS is not interested in the subject. ANY subject. His/her whole reason for posting on these threads is primarily to disrupt the discussion, and for ego gratification and self-aggrandizement.

GfS is a TROLL.

Thus I have decided that GfS is a lost cause and I will not waste any more time and verbiage on him/her. And I advise others to do the same.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 30 Nov 11 - 02:35 PM

Jack the Sailor),(and 'professor'): "Akenaton. Your last thread has nothing to do with OWS are you trolling too?"


Jack the Sailor(and 'professor'), "Your last thread has nothing to do with OWS are you trolling too?"


Bobert(the assistant professor): " No problem, Ake... There are people whose actions and behaviors are such that they really aren't worth your time..."

Jack the Sailor(and professor): "Your last thread has nothing to do with OWS are you trolling too?"

TIA: "I propose that anyone only respond to positive suggestions from..."

Jack the Sailor(and 'professor'): "Your last thread has nothing to do with OWS are you trolling too?"


Jack, you said it all!!!...now apply it to yourself, as well.....if you can't..stay partisan.

TOPIC: "RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%"

(Hi, Ake!)
Regards,

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 30 Nov 11 - 02:58 PM

Trying to keep the subject on OWS, is germane.

I call her "she" because she called me stupid and a number of other things once, years ago, for calling her "he". I would not be at all surprised if she has made similar rants about being called "he." But one has to decide if it is worth ones time to engage at all with someone who would make their own gender a point of contention. After all, even if one wanted to remain completely unidentified, it would be only good manners to pick a gender rather than trying to bully people into saying "him/her" and such. When you do that you submit to her dominance games.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: akenaton
Date: 30 Nov 11 - 03:30 PM

OWS is over, in the UK anyway, and I suspect in the US as well.
The media have tired of it...yesterdays news.
As I said right at the beginning, the only way change can be effected is to tackle the problem at the roots...it is systemic, there are still too many with a stake in the system, and 100% of us contributed to our current financial situation.

How many of us were involved in property sales? petty tax fiddling,
abuse of public services(UK), Mrs Thatcher and Ronald Reagan made us all capitalists ...and we loved it!
Now capitalism has been exposed and we have not the balls to admit it even to ourselves.

Until we understand the problem....we can never find the answer, OWS is simply a distraction, something to make us feel better about ourselves.....but we are stil guilty.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 30 Nov 11 - 03:39 PM

Horse pucky.

It's not capitalism. It is deregulation, its corruption, its deliberate denial of the problems by the regulators. If US Banks, were as regulated as Canadian Banks, the mortgage crisis would not have happened. Not that Canadian banks are paragons of virtue. They are simply required to follow Canadian law.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 30 Nov 11 - 03:40 PM

Occupy Wall Street will continue at least until the 2012 election. But not as it is.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Don Firth
Date: 30 Nov 11 - 04:32 PM

I can't find the post where this was quoted or linked to before, but if you haven't read it, DO!

If you have, it merits reading again.

Where OWS goes from here.

I heard a very interesting discussion this morning on my local NPR affiliate, part of which involved many of the same points that Moore talks about.

The program was locally produced (originating here in Seattle), and included comments by retired Seattle police chief Norman Stamper, who has written a book criticizing the recent federal government encouraged militarization of local police departments. He had some pretty strong things to say about the pepper-spraying incident at UC Davis. The police, he said, were WAY out of line. He also had some very strong things to say about the Seattle incident in which two women, one young pregnant and the other 84 years old, were pepper-sprayed by police.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Nov 11 - 06:16 PM

OWS isn't over at all, Ake...

The seed is planted and the conversation has changed...

OWS has been a complete success and won't die... We will carry it with us for a long time to come...

Saying it is over is like saying the Beatles are over...

It's a ridiculous statement, Ake, ol' buddy...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Nov 11 - 06:44 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 01 Dec 11 - 12:02 AM

Back a few posts back, was a link to a petition, to prosecute some of the 'robo-signers' and the banks(I mentioned the RICO statute in that). Two days later California, just 'HAD' to finally charge one of the banks, but mostly focused on the 'robo-signer'. What I suggest, is to cut and past that post, click the link, to apply the link, directly off the address bar, and apply it to the mail, and send it to everyone one your lists, and encourage them to pass it on, to everyone on their lists.
Being as the dialogue has changed, and the public is getting aware of a few things, they make go for the petition...even though they may not like or approve of the 'Occupiers'....they don't have to, at this point, or maybe ever...but at least help get the ball rolling, within the system.
Pressure needs to pour in on Holder's justice department...so far, he has done NOTHING! We the people will probably make him have to act! The more he resists,(if he does), the bigger the story...and the more questions asked!.....and it is, after all, an election year. Lot's of shit might come out.....but be forewarned, you might not like where it all leads....but let the chips fall where they must fall.
...and keep the discussion, MOVING, and ASKING QUESTIONS, and NOT SETTLING for soft answers! This is NOT a partisan issue....most of all those crooks have their fingers in the pie, and their feet in the trough!...and it crosses party lines...THEREFORE, lots of people may be prone to sign.
Let 'WE THE PEOPLE' represent the issue, now that the 'Occupiers', have brought it up.

Just a suggestion...and there's more that may come up.
Keep the focus.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 01 Dec 11 - 09:34 AM

From the 'For what it's worth department':
After 'Occupy L.A.' got 'evicted' from their encampment at City Hall, night before last, they(OWS) have announced last night, that they are going to focus on a moratorium on home foreclosures, (sound familiar?), and 'occupy' bank lobbies and bank owner's homes.

I know, I know I know...I'm just a 'troll'!.....
...................who happens to be dialed in!

GfS



Petition, (use post text only) is: (Cut and Paste between the X's)
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Tens of thousands of Americans have taken to the streets to demand accountability for the banks. But some members of the Obama administration—including members of his Cabinet—are pushing for a terrible deal to let the big banks off the hook for selling bad mortgages and then illegally foreclosing on homeowners—destroying the American Dream for millions of families.1

The president's top campaign advisers have said that he's going to run for re-election on his record of holding Wall Street accountable2—but that will be impossible if his administration pushes for another giveaway for the Wall Street banks who crashed our economy. And that could happen any day now.3

Can you sign our petition to President Obama right now telling him that we need a full investigation into the banks' wrongdoing, not another "deal" that lets them off the hook?

Add my name to the petition to hold the banks accountable.

We'll deliver it to the White House and to the campaign headquarters in Chicago. Here's what it says: "The banks have to be held accountable for destroying the American Dream for so many families. No immunity for the banks before a full investigation is done."

Members of the Obama administration have said that the immunity they're offering the banks would be very narrow. But we can't know if what the banks are being asked to pay is fair without a full investigation. What's already come out is shocking—intentionally overlooking problematic documentation, hiring "robo-signers" to sign thousands of documents without reading them, and even forging critical legal documents.4

And while the administration says we have to cut a deal because it's the only way to get homeowners relief quickly, what the banks are offering would only help a fraction of the homeowners who are in trouble, and it's not even clear how many of them it would allow to stay in their homes.5

Some state attorneys general—led by New York Attorney General Eric Schneiderman and Delaware Attorney General Beau Biden—have walked away from the deal, because they believe it doesn't go nearly far enough.6 But members of the administration, including Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner and HUD Secretary Shaun Donovan, are continuing to push for a deal—any deal—so they can SAY they won something against the banks.7

That's why it's so critical that we speak up now and say that granting the banks immunity before we know the scale of their wrongdoing makes no sense. A deal could come any day, so we all need to send a message to the president that he needs to step up and hold the banks accountable. Click below to sign now: http://pol.moveon.org/badagdeal/?id=32550-19313093

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Don Firth
Date: 01 Dec 11 - 02:29 PM

I receive the Move-On newsletter in my e-mail every morning. Petition signed. Along with others that Move-On and a couple of other organizations have presented.

I also receive AlterNet Headlines (excellent!) and several other newsletters and bulletins.

Plenty tuned in.

Occupy protesters who have been evicted in a couple of cities are gathering in groups in various less public locations and forming planning and action committees.

But not just in the cities where they've been evicted. All over the country. The main goal right now is to make sure that everyone who is qualilfied (age, etc.) is registered to vote. Then to make sure everyone is informed on the issues (which most already are), and study the records of elected officials (who should go and who should stay).

Far from over, this movement is just beginning.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 01 Dec 11 - 05:23 PM

Well now, if Don and I can agree on something(anything)'political', we must have made headway.

The 'Euro-zone' PEOPLE, are now freaking out, because the bankers/financial people have pretty much taken over, and they are saying, that the PEOPLE, have virtually NO SAY, in their country's policies. Any similarity between that thinking, and say, NAFTA and the other trade agreements is NOT co-incidental!

I remember, on this thread, someone asked, "What it meant, 'taking back the country'".....are we closer to finding out?

The politicians and financial/Wall Streeters/bankers, have just about locked it down, This is a last minute effort!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Dec 11 - 06:57 PM

The people who were out saying "We want to take our country back" weren't talking about bankers or Wall Street... They were talking about progressives and, more specifically, a black president...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Stringsinger
Date: 01 Dec 11 - 07:32 PM

Having attended a few General Assemblies, my view is that OWS is a work in progress.
There is a class war in the US today. OWS has to win it non-violently.

I call us OWS demonstrators "Patriots". We are working toward a more equitable
and just society and that is the issue, not us as a group. We are leaderless and each of us is a leader.

Non-violent resistance takes many forms. There is a history of this in our country
and it's a winning strategy. Some definitions of what constitutes non-violent resistance
are ambiguous. There are many ways to resist. Some would define sitting and linking arms in silent protest in resisting police as a form as violence however I think the First Amendment covers this as peaceable assembly.

Some considered what MLK did was a form of violence and this was the rationale for
his being vilified in the South. I don't agree with that assessment.

OWS is not a single-issue message driven movement. Many people with different persuasions are coming together to finally connect the dots. A wartime economy, financed by banksters, corporations (who are not people), HMO CEO's, MIC organizations, bought politicians, money as free speech declared by SCOTUS and a wealthy class made selfish and rationalized by Ayn Rand should have shown to be clear enough to any thinking person.

This movement will grow because the fate of our country depends upon it.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Stringsinger
Date: 01 Dec 11 - 07:36 PM

One thing more, if Obama doesn't veto the Defense Appropriation Bill, we will
relive 1930's in Germany and the specter of Joe McCarthy will resurface.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 01 Dec 11 - 10:55 PM

Bobert: "The people who were out saying "We want to take our country back" weren't talking about bankers or Wall Street... They were talking about progressives and, more specifically, a black president..."

That might be YOUR take on it, but I've NEVER heard that it EVER implied that!.......NEVER!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Dec 11 - 11:06 PM

Of course you don't... You are not remotely associated with the progressive side of the isle...

Sleep with fleas and you gonna get bit...

Same ol' story...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 01 Dec 11 - 11:21 PM

BOBERT!! Will you please stop making this thread the Beg for Sanity show!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Don Firth
Date: 02 Dec 11 - 12:01 AM

Excerpt from an article by William Greider in the November 22, 2011 issue of The Nation:

This new movement [OWS] is probably more threatening to President Obama, because many of the young people and minorities who campaigned and voted for him in 2008 might drift away to Occupy's direct action. If Obama refuses to get tougher on reining in Wall Street, these former supporters may just skip voting in 2012. Yet this new force can ultimately help Obama if he responds to its message. Led by the young, the movement is aligning with the reviving militancy of labor and other progressive constituencies. The spirit is open-armed and patriotic, not negative and divisive. Obama should dare to lead it rather than dodge or oppose it. The Republicans are hopeless, of course, utterly in thrall to banking industry demands.

The full article HERE.

I had great hopes for Barack Obama, but as many people seem to feel, he hasn't measured up to the "audacity" of our "hopes." In truth, with the stonewalling of the Republican Congress who don't seem to give a damn what is good for the country, they just want to make sure that anything Obama is for, they will keep from happening, I'm not sure he could accomplish more than he has. I feel he has been too conciliatory and willing to compromise, which is not the way to deal with that crew.

In any case, as Samuel Johnson said a few centuries ago, "Depend upon it, Sir, when a man knows he is to be hanged in a fortnight, it concentrates his mind wonderfully." If a sitting president feels that he is in danger of NOT being re-elected, it might concentrate his mind on trying a bit harder to accomplish what his constituents want him to do.

Methinks there is a new wind about.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 02 Dec 11 - 12:53 AM

Bobert: "Of course you don't... You are not remotely associated with the progressive side of the isle..."

and: "The people who were out saying "We want to take our country back" weren't talking about bankers or Wall Street... They were talking about progressives and, more specifically, a black president..."

Bobert, If they, let's say the Tea Party, was saying that("We want to take our country back")..then why do you think they rallied, and some still do, around Herman Cain?

I think they were more concerned about bigger, out of control government, and more taxes, along with a concern that we, as a country, were headed 'in the wrong direction'. The farther they were to the 'right', the more they were also dissatisfied with generic Republicans...and they also put quite a bit of pressure on the Republicans, and Republican congress.
I don't think they were even remotely aware that Obama was a shill for Wall Street...though, Obama was mixed, because it appeared that he was also an ideologue.

I used the word 'think'(above), because I've ALWAYS thought Obama was inept, and won the election, after he was risen to 'celebrity' status.

My thrust has ALWAYS been the 'CORRUPTION'....(if you remember), and ALWAYS likened Congress and the Senate, as 'so-called Representatives'...even called them 'Brokers', used car salesmen,(and other such things) to denote that they were frauds! My posted history bears this out DISTINCTLY!!!..matter of fact, even argued about it with YOU!..and I've said NUMEROUS times that the CORRUPTION extended to BOTH parties....so much, that the letters 'C-O-R-R-U-P-T-I-O-N', and' B-O-T-H P-A-R-T-I-E-S' are worn out on my keyboard!!

As to Don, (nicely)well, you know me, and I guess I'll just have to say it again.......about Obama....I was RIGHT again!...but that's no so much due to having a preference, as to a candidate(I thought McCain was a crooked, sold out, piece of shit, as well)..It had more to do with being a musician/composer/and counselor, and focusing on 'an objectivity'...and calling it how I saw it. I REALLY have NO partisan preference!!...That's why, when you asked me, who I thought would be a good ticket, I answered back to you a Kucinich/Paul or Paul Kucinich ticket would be interesting..NOT BECAUSE of their 'politics'(if you remember), but they seemed to be a bit more honest, though I DID question Kucinich's reversal on the 'heath care' debacle.
Now that the 'Occupiers' have raised their 'concerns' about Wall Street, now the Wall Street/Washington connection of defrauding the American public, has, at least a chance of being looked at!(Note all my links earlier when Congress was grilling the Fed's chairman and legal counsel).
(I just shove back, when someone accuses me of adopting the 'right', or Tea Party, or Fox News, etc. etc., stance on it....and gets nasty about it).....

As to Jack the Sailor: "BOBERT!! Will you please stop making this thread the Beg for Sanity show!!!"

Ohhh, silly you!...what's the matter??....You don't like 'sanity'?...

Old Arabian saying: "Neither reality, nor the sun can be looked at, for very long."

Hey!....Nice exchanges!(Constructive, too!)

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 02 Dec 11 - 12:54 AM

Bobert, let it go. Please.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 02 Dec 11 - 01:25 AM

Jack the Sailor: "Bobert, let it go. Please."

I can't take it!! Sanity is driving me crazy!!!!!

Wink!....(it happens)

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 02 Dec 11 - 05:44 AM

My brief BBC Radio 3/Sage Gateshead speech "Cut Capitalism" - http://davidfranks.blogspot.com/2010/11/ne-england-gig-06112010.html

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Stringsinger
Date: 02 Dec 11 - 03:38 PM

New alliances are being made, the conversation changing away from trivial issues, this Movement bringing new friends closer together, realizing we are all in this mess together, we, having a share in the outcome, waking up to just how much we are being screwed by the wealthy bankers, investors, big Pharma, the military industry, the bought politicians, and effete leadership in government, all this means that we will prevail. Bringing out the cops will continue to grow our Movement. Let the Frank Luntz's of the world bamboozle with tricky words and frames, the Newts with their worn-out platitudes,the GOP Congress who want the country to fail economically so that they can gain power, the ridiculous gang of four, twelve, or other deceptive distractions that keep Americans from finding their jobs, let 'em spin out while we will finally occupy the ideals that this country was founded upon and reform the Capitalist system. I think we can keep it, Ben Franklin.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Bobert
Date: 02 Dec 11 - 03:54 PM

Not to worry, Jack...

Any post that long isn't going to get read by me...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 02 Dec 11 - 05:55 PM

Short attention span?
Besides, you could actually learn something.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST, Eb
Date: 03 Dec 11 - 12:03 PM

Curve ball here - Last night I came across a YouTube video that uses Buddy Tabor's song 'Corporate Domination' interlaced with video of Occupiers' interactions with police. I don't know who did it but it is quite well done.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST, Eb
Date: 03 Dec 11 - 12:44 PM

My post wasn't clear- I meant to say that I don't know who created the video, but that the voice and song is Buddy.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,999
Date: 03 Dec 11 - 01:53 PM

Here's the link, Eb (I hope).

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Don Firth
Date: 03 Dec 11 - 03:00 PM

We've worked so hard at exporting democracy to the rest of the world that we've run short of it here at home. . . .

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST, Eb
Date: 03 Dec 11 - 03:04 PM

Thanks, Bruce.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Bobert
Date: 03 Dec 11 - 08:07 PM

Yup, Don, but the brand of democracy we've been exporting ain't no better than ours...

Nice song by Buddy Tabor... Thanks, Eb...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 03 Dec 11 - 09:42 PM

short break from studio work...


Don: "We've worked so hard at exporting democracy to the rest of the world that we've run short of it here at home. . . ."

Yeah, as long as the 'Democracy(?)' falls under the auspicious of the globalist's corporatism....wait a minute.....isn't that just another word for communism?

Jeez Don,..we're connecting.......

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Stringsinger
Date: 04 Dec 11 - 01:29 PM

No, communism isn't global corporatism, that's more like fascism. One could argue that China or the Former Soviet Union didn't practice a legitimate form of communism. The best example for that would be the mythos of Jesus and his disciples.

The 99% Occupiers represent the best of democracy, winning by consensus, coming to agreements which are time consuming but rewarding. I recommend that everyone attend a General Assembly more than once to get an idea of what's going on today.

There is a revolution out there and it will and will not be televised.

It will however be distorted by the corporate media.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 04 Dec 11 - 03:28 PM

Well Strings, then which would rather be controlled by, Fascism or Communism?

And just HOW are they different?.....like which one gives you a say, or vote..or representation?.....or FREEDOM???

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Bobert
Date: 04 Dec 11 - 07:18 PM

Exactly, Strings...

Today the corporate Washington Post wrote that "OWS clashed with police"... Clashed??? OWS was 100% non-violent today while the police came in an physically removed them... Where's the "clash"...

Newt GingRICH (and getting richer) makes a statement that OWS should take a bath and get jobs... hahaha, right??? Has he ever been to an OWS event??? He is clueless about OWS as are those who parrot his bigotry...

I mean, lets get real here... BIG MEDIA is lying thru its teeth about OWS...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 05 Dec 11 - 04:57 AM

Oh..and Bobert, you and I have gone 'round a couple of times about taxes. You wanted them raised, and I was opposed to that.(If you remember)....but now the Democrats are Supporting extending the tax cuts, which are due to expire. Has YOUR position changed as well?..or are you still in favor or taxes being raised???

Fair question.

GfS

P.S. (not related): How's CD sales going?

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Bobert
Date: 05 Dec 11 - 09:15 AM

All taxes are not the same...

Tax relief for the working class means that $$$ will get spent in the economy and therefor contribute positively to not only "growth" but to "GNP"...

Tax relief for the rich, we have seen, does not get spent and therefore a drain on "growth" and "GNP"... Money not circulated is wasted $$$...

Basic Economics 201...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 05 Dec 11 - 03:58 PM

OK....but before, you were arguing AGAINST the extension of the 'Bush' tax breaks, across the board.
I was merely asking you for a clarification...because you even said that you, would be happy to pay more taxes..which I replied, that you could always 'volunteer' to send more in.....then you got pissed at me.

It's 'ironic'...both sides have seemed to switch stripes. You think it might be that the Republicans, anticipating a victory over Obama, in the next election, are pushing the same agenda of Obama....because perhaps its all a charade?

Honest question....no baiting.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Bobert
Date: 05 Dec 11 - 04:50 PM

If it takes across the board then so be it...

But with that decreased infusion of cash into a stagnated economy it will have to come with a package of investments in infrastructure which will get the unemployment down, cash in those folks pockets and back into the economy...

This isn't politics here... It is sound economic principles being used rather than ignored... Any economist worth his or her salt will see thing exactly the way I have laid them out...

Basic economics ain't as difficult as the current batch of Republicans want you to think... I mean, even a caveman get learn it...

I argue sound fiscal policies first and politics a distant second...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Melissa
Date: 05 Dec 11 - 10:37 PM

We're brainwashed by Muppets


Who knew?

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,999
Date: 06 Dec 11 - 12:37 PM

Our future is in good hands with people like those from Fox News keeping an eye on things for us all and being so helpful in interpreting the datum (note use of the singular).

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Bobert
Date: 06 Dec 11 - 01:15 PM

The people at FOX routinely bypass sound economic principles and sound science... They are either very ignorant or very evil... You pick...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 06 Dec 11 - 02:33 PM

They are telling the willfully ignorant what they want to hear.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: akenaton
Date: 06 Dec 11 - 03:32 PM

Dont we all listen to what we want to hear?

The Western "developed" countries are in terminal decline.

NOBODY wants to hear THAT!...but it is true none the less. We prefer to cling on to the forlorn hope that "something will turn up" and that our team will triumph.

Sad really.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 06 Dec 11 - 03:40 PM

"Don't we all listen to what we want to hear?"

Only if by "we" you are including yourself as willfully ignorant and speak only for that group. Then yes.

If I am ignorant, I am not willfully so.

I hear a lot of things I don't like on nearly every media source. But I listen anyway as a way to try to stave off ignorance.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Don Firth
Date: 06 Dec 11 - 04:40 PM

Fools listen only to what they want to hear. An intelligent person knows that listening to facts that he or she doesn't want to hear can avert disaster.

The idea that we listen only to what we want to hear is a handy (but ineffective) club that people who want to advance spurious arguments use to try to beat up on those who tell them they are full of--prunes.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: gnu
Date: 06 Dec 11 - 05:00 PM

"Fools listen only to what they want to hear. An intelligent person knows that listening to facts that he or she doesn't want to hear can avert disaster."

Well, I can see their point... we ARE talking about kids watching puppets. Perhaps it really is a bit OTT to expect children to be "intelligent"?

Then again, there are a lot of adults watching the puppets on Fox and the puppets in government and it appears THEY can't make an intelligent decision... for whatever reason and there seems to be many reasons.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Bobert
Date: 06 Dec 11 - 05:08 PM

Ake,

No, we don't always listen to stuff we agree with... Just off the top of my head I can argue any right winged position just as well as anyone on the right can... How can that be if I'm not paying one hell of a lot of attention to folks with whom I completely disagree...

Speak for yourself, Ake, but most of my progressive friends are like me... We want to know what the enemy is up to... BTW, I doubt seriously if too many folk on the right can argue our positions...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Don Firth
Date: 06 Dec 11 - 05:37 PM

If they could, and if they are in possession of a brain cell or two, they might just change their position.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Bobert
Date: 06 Dec 11 - 07:02 PM

B-I-N-G-O, Don!!!

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 06 Dec 11 - 10:48 PM

Gnu, Old bean ya got me thinkin. Now I think I understand the Fox reporters reaction. I don't excuse it mind you, but I understand it.

You see if you or I spent every single working moment with our bosses looking over our shoulder making sure that we relentlessly pushed a specific agenda. We might, as a defense mechanism for our tortured consciences, start to think that everyone else is doing the same thing.

We might think that Jason Segel (the star and writer of the film) wrote this movie only to brainwash kids about big business. We might not use our heads and look at it from a writers perspective. He needed an antagonist who threatened the Muppet reunion and a physical icon to represent the Muppet show. When he chose the Muppet theater, that the antagonist had to threaten theater with destruction. That leave three possible choices. Real estate developer, Oil Barron or giant termite. Personally I would have liked the termite. But I am guessing that they didn't have the FX budget. Real estate was out. Even the kids know that Paulson, Bush and the banks have made active Real Estate developers as rare as Sasquach. The kids will believe in Tinker Bell but not a developer buying property in this market. So that leaves the oil guy.

And even though we all know that the fracking industry is the one and only savior of American jobs and the environment. You have seen the ads. So have I. It just never entered the Fox Newsies minds that one, just one of all the drillers, in a fictional context could ever be evil for the sake of a story.

Face it Jason Segel isn't anti-corporate, he is just a hack writing the simplest possible hackneyed cliche. He can't be anti corporate. He did the film for Disney! for gorsh sakes.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: akenaton
Date: 07 Dec 11 - 04:00 AM

I did hold your position for many years, but seeing the other half of humanity as your enemy is not the answer.
They are just like you and I, but perhaps a bit more realistic.

A revolution today would be a disaster, we must learn to disregard all political divisions.....be willing to compromise and stop trying to reform society in your own image.
Learn that at the moment, society is infected by a virulent disease, which will take many years to irradicate.

Be patient. Stop wasting enegy on treating the symptoms.
Learn that "equality" will never exist, but that we all have different talents, each as valuable in its own way as any other.

Try a little spirituality.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Dec 11 - 08:43 AM

"Don't worry, be happy" isn't an option, Ake...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Melissa
Date: 07 Dec 11 - 01:35 PM

How is the idea of Occupying foreclosed houses supposed to work?
What's the deal with Occupying empty lots?

Is this stepping from Right to Assemble
to Civil Disobedience?


I live in a very small town and we have several empty lots. They don't seem overly offensive to me.
Is the Occupy Empty Lots thing something that only makes sense in built-up cities?

I understand that the crazy foreclosures are awful, but I don't understand the Occupying thing. Being in the yard of a house doesn't hamper paperwork, does it?

I'd appreciate it if somebody could explain this to me.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 07 Dec 11 - 03:59 PM

Well, after his speech yesterday, I think ALL doubt should be removed as to what a piece of shit, and incapable ideologue he is.

This clown, has got to go down as the crappiest president America has EVER had the misfortune of being deceived by!!!!!!!!!

Bobert, and anyone else out there, DON'T EVEN try trying to convince me, and/or anyone else, that this 'Democrat' president is worth diddly-squat! I hope you heard it.....and puked accordingly!

This guy should have run for president in Somalia!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Dec 11 - 04:19 PM

Try to convince you???

Your hatred of Obama is well documented here... Nothing new...

Yawn...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 07 Dec 11 - 04:21 PM

occupy-geoff-nunbergs-2011-word-of-the-year

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Don Firth
Date: 07 Dec 11 - 04:25 PM

There are millions of houses in the United States (I've hear 3.2 million) that are standing empty. At the same time, there are millions of homeless people (I can't find an accurate figure, but they, too, number in the millions), living on the streets. These houses are standing empty because the bank foreclosed and evicted those living there (some of whom are now homeless), and are standing empty. Because of the current housing market, no one is buying them. They stand vacant. And in addition to being wasted space, there is no one, not even the banks, maintaining these houses, so many of them are getting pretty run down and overgrown.

Empty house over here, someone living on the street because they have nowhere else to live, over there.

The Occupy folks moving into these houses—and Occupying them—are making a loud and clear statement.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Jeri
Date: 07 Dec 11 - 04:25 PM

The text of the speech is here, so people can read it for themselves. I thought it was one of his best.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Don Firth
Date: 07 Dec 11 - 04:28 PM

Helluva good speech, actually.

I've been waiting for him the say something like that. Most encouraging!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 07 Dec 11 - 04:32 PM

Not hatred, ol' buddy....this guy is a consummate piece of shit...and YOU do yourself a disservice to try to prop him up anymore.
Didn't you hear the moronic bullshit he was peddling, yesterday???..and you couldn't detect something REAL stupid going on????

Come on, if you like being the spokesman for the Democratic party, and being taken as serious, that may I make a real practical, simple suggestion to you?....distance yourself from him, and his BULLSHIT. This guy is aiming to collapse the nation.

There!..Make you happy, now?
(I'd spend some soul searching time, if I were you, and save ANY credibility you think you may have left!)

Hope you liked the music link from the other thread. (Joe Bonamassa and Eric Clapton...then I posted the whole concert)..Shit!..I can't remember which thread....oh yeah its...umm......the one about arresting Americans...Enjoy, ol' fart!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 07 Dec 11 - 04:36 PM

Bobert, it's this one: BS: Obama 2 sign bill 2 Disappear Americans?

Oh, I just saw this.....Don: "Helluva good speech, actually."

Now he is blaming the internet and ATM's?????????????????????????????

Get serious!

He Said America has ALWAYS been screwed up????????????????????????

Then go where ever you think its NOT!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Dec 11 - 04:45 PM

(((((((((((((((((((((((BIG yawn))))))))))))))))))))

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 07 Dec 11 - 04:54 PM

Get some rest, then...its obvious that your lack of sleep has affected your thinking!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 07 Dec 11 - 04:56 PM

Now that was pure Tea Party.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 07 Dec 11 - 05:05 PM

Tia, that was just plain stupid!

Here, spin this!

The bill that ultimately "repealed" the Act was brought up in the Senate by Phil Gramm (R-Texas) and in the House of Representatives by Jim Leach (R-Iowa) in 1999. The bills were passed by a Republican majority, basically following party lines by a 54–44 vote in the Senate[15] and by a bi-partisan 343–86 vote in the House of Representatives.[16] After passing both the Senate and House the bill was moved to a conference committee to work out the differences between the Senate and House versions. The final bill resolving the differences was passed in the Senate 90–8 (one not voting) and in the House: 362–57 (15 not voting). The legislation was signed into law by President Bill Clinton on November 12, 1999.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Dec 11 - 05:06 PM

Yup, like I have been pointing out all along, this person is a right winged Republican, i.e. a Tea Partier...

Too bad to carry around such hate... Hate will eat you up and hate is the cornerstone of TeaNation/RedneckNation... That why all this hate for Obama... TeaNation's daddies and grand daddies were Klansmen...

The thing about OWS is that the hatred is for bad policies and not people... 180 degrees from TeaNation...

Yup, if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck its a duck...

I have more respect for people who just come out and admit they are racists rather than pretend they are all classless and free and enlightened when they plainly are none of those...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Melissa
Date: 07 Dec 11 - 05:08 PM

Thanks, Don
I guess it does make sense to move into the foreclosed/empty houses. All I could find to read made it seem like they were moving onto yards of folks who are being evicted.

When they get moved out of those houses, they'll be able to be held for trespassing instead of being taken/held for nothing?


What's with the empty lots?

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Dec 11 - 05:12 PM

Yes, OWSers occupying foreclosed houses makes a loud statement about Wall Street...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 07 Dec 11 - 05:31 PM

Actually, it makes more sense to prosecute those responsible for the collapse!

and while they're (not) at it:

From ABC NEWS:

Former New Jersey governor and U.S. Sen. Jon Corzine, whom President Obama once hailed as an "honorable man" and one of his "best partners" in the White House, has been subpoenaed to testify before Congress about his role in the collapse of the investment firm MF Global.

Corzine was chairman and CEO of the company between March 2010 and Oct. 31, 2011, when it filed for bankruptcy. An estimated $1.2 billion has not been accounted for, leaving many investor accounts drained. The FBI and Justice Department are also investigating the case.

The unanimous, bipartisan vote today to require Corzine to appear before the House Agriculture Committee next week sets the stage for tough questioning of one of the president's top re-election campaign fundraisers and a man who had, until recently, been considered a top pick for Treasury Secretary in a possible second Obama term.

Corzine hosted a private fundraiser for Obama at his Manhattan home in April and has given the maximum individual contribution — $35,800 — to Obama and Democrats for 2012, according to Federal Election Commission records. He and his family have donated more than $933,000 to Democratic candidates and groups since 1990, according to the Center for Responsive Politics.

The former CEO of Goldman Sachs has also bundled more than $500,000 in contributions for Obama 2012 from his deep-pocket friends and associates, many of whom have ties to Wall Street.

Corzine's scheduled appearance before the House panel on Dec. 8 comes with potential pitfalls. If he openly answers lawmakers' questions, he risks giving information that criminal and civil investigators could use against him. On the other hand, if he invokes his Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination, he could appear culpable to some degree.

While Corzine has not yet been charged with a crime, his ties to the failed firm have drawn criticism from Republicans and spurred demands on Obama to return Corzine's campaign cash.

"In light of the FBI investigation into Jon Corzine's company, President Obama should immediately return the $500,000 that Corzine raised on his behalf," Republican National Committee chairman Reince Priebus said in a statement last month.

An Obama campaign official said they would return funds associated with Corzine if he is charged with any wrongdoing in criminal or civil court.

ABC News' Jason Ryan and Susanna Kim contributed to this report.

AND THIS:

MF Global Holdings Ltd. (MF) took the cult of the Wall Street chief executive officer to a new level with its sale of bonds that pay a higher rate if Chairman and CEO Jon Corzine quits to take a job from the U.S. president.

The futures broker sold $325 million of five-year unsecured notes, the company said today in a statement. The notes will pay an extra percentage point of interest if Corzine is named to a federal post and confirmed by the Senate before July 2013, New York-based MF Global said yesterday in a regulatory filing.

"That seems crazy," said William Larkin, a fixed-income portfolio manager who oversees $500 million at Cabot Money Management Inc. in Salem, Massachusetts, and has 22 years of experience. "I've never heard of something like this."

Corzine, the 64-year-old former governor of New Jersey, helped run Goldman Sachs Group Inc. (GS) from 1994 to 1999 and served in the Senate from 2001 to 2006. Since joining MF Global last year, he's taken more risk with the firm's money in a bid to remake the broker into a mid-size investment bank and has sought to alter its capital structure to reduce borrowing costs. The shares rose 9.5 percent in the past year under his watch, while the Standard & Poor's 500 Financials Index fell 4.9 percent.

A Democrat, Corzine is among the biggest fundraisers for President Barack Obama's 2012 re-election campaign. He has been the subject of speculation about administration jobs such as Treasury secretary or White House economic adviser, said Christopher Allen, an analyst at Evercore Partners Inc. in New York.
Retention Bonus

Jay Carney, the White House press secretary, said he had "no knowledge" that Corzine was being considered for an administration post. He declined to comment on the bond sale.


AND THIS!:

October 3, 2011 5:59 PM

ATF Fast and Furious: New documents show Attorney General Eric Holder was briefed in July 2010

WASHINGTON - New documents obtained by CBS News show Attorney General Eric Holder was sent briefings on the controversial Fast and Furious operation as far back as July 2010. That directly contradicts his statement to Congress.

On May 3, 2011, Holder told a Judiciary Committee hearing, "I'm not sure of the exact date, but I probably heard about Fast and Furious for the first time over the last few weeks."

Yet internal Justice Department documents show that at least ten months before that hearing, Holder began receiving frequent memos discussing Fast and Furious.

AND THIS: ...Wait, I got more, but BOBERT claims 'reading fatigue'

So, SPIN THOSE!!!

GfS

P.S. Maybe time for me to yawn....while waiting!

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Don Firth
Date: 07 Dec 11 - 06:07 PM

Hmm.

Melissa, I haven't heard anything about vacant lots specifically. But it would seem to me that if these are the yards of houses that have been foreclosed on, there may be two reasons for camping in the yard.

First, although they would be trespassing, they couldn't be charged with breaking and entering, which is more serious.

Second, if the Occupiers are IN the house, people driving or walking by will think it's just a house. But with people camped in the yard, it identified as one of THOSE houses.

I'm just speculating here.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Melissa
Date: 07 Dec 11 - 06:15 PM

I'll keep an eye open for another article about the houses/lots and will post it here (presuming one turns up again..been seeing them for several days so it might be time to cycle their story to the next half-baked article)

The houses/lots thing might be a made-up distraction to keep folks from thinking about the encampments being torn down in the night (sneaky-seeming and creepy!) or something.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,999
Date: 07 Dec 11 - 06:22 PM

I think, Melissa, that the 'Occupation' of vacant lots, etc, is more than posturing. It looks to me like a resounding call to all people to correct history and right wrongs. The protestors have shown they aren't protestors; rather, they are us. (Walt Kelly would be proud I think.)   

People have suffered at the hands of multinationals and conglomerates because gigantic corporations perceive themselves to be laws unto themselves, and indeed they have demonstrated that they are. What makes peaceful civil disobedience so powerful is its civility. Virtually, the only violence offered since the Occupation is from the ruling group--like, where else would it come from? That sarcasm was not aimed at you, btw.

I think OWS is an idea with millions of plain and otherwise ordinary people doing the directing and driving. Hell, they're even writing the script!

I have asked myself the same questions you posed earlier. "What is the sense of this?" My answer was simple: Zen. "So, you admit that because there was the sound of two hands clapping that two hands clapped?"

We ain't none of us rich, but so far we ain't none of us ugly, either. This is important. To us, not them wot dislikes us.

No offence meant, and I hope none taken.

BM

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Melissa
Date: 07 Dec 11 - 06:34 PM

999
nah, no reason to be offended..hell, you didn't even show a glint of fang while typing that!

I DO see sense in getting out and being visible. I guess I just sort of expect the house occupying to get attacked even rougher than the encampments because it'll be easier to puff up some self-righteous indignation about those awful lawbreakers (or whatever they'd call 'em)

My friend was made homeless by one of those shysty foreclosures and it would thrill me to know that her house is being Occupied!

I'll even buy the Zen of Occupying and I'm all for the idea of Just Occupy SOMETHING..I'm just missing chunks of information and this thread is my best option for finding things out.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,999
Date: 07 Dec 11 - 08:30 PM

Thank you, M.

Look, if you and I don't say STOP, who will?

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Dec 11 - 08:32 PM

Big difference between folks of similar value systems finding middle ground and folks who just want to throw flames...

That's what OWS is all about....

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Melissa
Date: 07 Dec 11 - 09:18 PM

Bobert
..and I would say it's all about something slightly different.
And probably everybody who has posted to this thread would have a different answer if we were asked what OWS is About.

That's what makes us individuals and I think that's the strength of the thing.
Instead of One Size Fits All
it's Everybody Fits

Everybody we meet in a day is one of us. That's what I would say it's all about.
Trite and somewhat remedial..but strong and lovely.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 07 Dec 11 - 11:12 PM

A 'slight diversion, but I knew I'd find Bobert here.....

For Bobert.......and anyone else...but i thought you'd get a kick out of this

and

For Bobert

Now back to our regularly scheduled bickering

Wink!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 08 Dec 11 - 11:06 AM

Actually, the discussion immediately preceding involved no bickering.
Well done Melissa et al.
Perhaps one might learn a lesson from that, but probably not.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST, Eb
Date: 08 Dec 11 - 11:36 AM

No surprise here: I too think that speech was one of his best- and seemingly so did his audience. Great - and hopeful - response from a red state. I hope it was covered well in Kansas papers. JohninKansas?

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 08 Dec 11 - 05:27 PM

Great speech,......BUT, from the Washington Post, your friends that brought us the FACTS from Watergate......and 'known' as a 'liberal' and reasonably reliable paper.... .
Well ,i 'might' have been a 'great speech, except..............

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Dec 11 - 07:06 PM

Yes, Eb, it was a great speech but it went beyond that in further changing the national conversation that OWS has been doing...

Ya' know, the Republicans ***love*** class warfare but they ***hate*** it when the folks they are oppressing fight back...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,999
Date: 08 Dec 11 - 07:33 PM

Listen, person: True, it is doubtful that OWS or Republicans/Democrats are being influenced by anything on Mudcat, but WE are, and we collectively influence many more people than do you.

Just wanted you to sleep well knowing that the site to which you contribute so little of value is proportionately as ineffective in terms of changing national policy as are you in changing any posts here. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 08 Dec 11 - 08:35 PM

Who is 'person'?

But for what it's worth....we are ALL connected....and seeds, if they are living things grow.
Don't under-estimate the power of life..and/or LIVING things!

and now a word from our sponsor:Enjoy!...(and think about it)

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,999
Date: 08 Dec 11 - 11:17 PM

Obviously, I posted to the wrong thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 08 Dec 11 - 11:19 PM

Oh. Well I hope you enjoyed the music!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,999
Date: 08 Dec 11 - 11:28 PM

What music?

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 09 Dec 11 - 12:50 AM

Oh, the link on my post when we got cross-threaded. Scroll back...it's not very far...just a few...enjoy!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 09 Dec 11 - 03:09 AM

you are feeding it again

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,999
Date: 09 Dec 11 - 04:29 AM

WTF are you, my mother?

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 09 Dec 11 - 05:19 AM

You would be ashamed to feed the troll in front of your mother.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,999
Date: 09 Dec 11 - 06:23 AM

I don't perceive GfS to be a troll. His/her views are far from mine, and I perceive them at times to be the meanderings of a senile old duff with a big mouth and limited ability to state his/her case in an acceptable and understandable manner. That said, it will not be you or any other individual who tells me with whom I may talk. I already seldom speak with him/her because after being bitten twice, I no longer want to. But please be clear on this: I don't listen to your admonitions, either.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 09 Dec 11 - 08:09 AM

GfS is a troll on this thread she has been doing everything that she can to disrupt it and distract from OWS and rest assured she is laughing at you for engaging with her. I started this thread to talk about OWS in a sane and reasonable manner after she made another unreadable. And Bruce, if she has views of her own, she does not share them with us, she simply says whatever will piss off the greatest number of liberals.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 09 Dec 11 - 08:11 AM

Please Bruce, If you want to talk to her about music videos or get into another pissing contest with her, please please please, take it to another thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Bobert
Date: 09 Dec 11 - 09:43 AM

Hey, boys... Ol' hillbilly gonna have to deliver some butt whup on you two??? I can, ya know... You guys are both great friends and don't need to be whuppin' each other, ya' hear???

Now behave!!!

B;~)

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: akenaton
Date: 09 Dec 11 - 11:31 AM

Well said 999. I like you because you are your own man,

I remember you speaking up for me when I was under attack, tho' you didn't agree with what I was saying.
Thats the sign of a real man.......no time for bullys.
Keep well mate!

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 09 Dec 11 - 12:37 PM

Though I do not always agree with '999' either, I find that things he says are worth reading, because 'another' point of view, should be taken into consideration. Sometimes people have a perspective that isn't the same as your own...but IN those perspectives may just be a piece, that causes one to think BEYOND their own preconceptions.

Often linking the different perspectives widens your own.

Regards.....and regards to '999'..though we have differed.....and sometimes not!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Don Firth
Date: 09 Dec 11 - 01:12 PM

There is more that one troll here, and Bruce is neither of them.

And at least one of these trolls is also a stalker.

Don Firth

P. S. Just a passing comment. I'm too busy being active (as in "activist") in the real world.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Melissa
Date: 13 Dec 11 - 01:36 AM

Occupy Our Homes

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: bobad
Date: 27 Dec 11 - 01:03 PM

'Occupy Minnesota' helps woman stay in her home

Add another foreclosure fight to the list taken on by 'Occupy Wall Street' protesters across America.

In a video interview from Al Jazeera, Minnesota resident Monique White explained that the local 'Occupy' group helped her stay in her home since November after home loan bank Freddie Mac threatened to evict her.

According to Campus Progress, White's home was sold and repossessed by U.S. Bank to Freddie Mac without her knowledge. White, who was laid off from her job as a youth counselor in early 2010, turned to 'Occupy Minnesota' after she rejected Freddie Mac's 'cash for keys' offer, a small reimbursement for vacating her property.

'I'm not asking for a handout,' White told Al Jazeera. 'I'm not saying give me my house for free. Basically, what I'm asking is to sit down with me, be reasonable, write my loan, and make it affordable for me to keep my house.'

'Occupy Minnesota' provided White with both moral and physical support, including purchasing a small Christmas tree for her family. White still awaits Freddie Mac's next move, after they postponed her eviction and said they would consider allowing her to rent her home.

'Occupy' protesters across the country have made an effort to fight foreclosures in 20 cities through the 'Occupy Our Homes' movement. The action has received public support from Rep. Marcy Kaptur (D-OH).

Protesters have already been able to keep an Iraq vet in her home in Atlanta.

WATCH: Video from Al Jazeera, which was broadcast on December 27, 2011.

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Suffet
Date: 04 Mar 12 - 05:04 PM

Greetings:

Kate Slininger and Rebecca Centeno, two graduate students at the Parsons School of Design at the New School, went to Zuccotti Park in New York City this past autumn to document the sights and sounds of the Occupy Wall Street movement. You are welcome to click here for a live recording they made on October 15, 2011, of me singing Woody Guthrie's Hard Traveling. I am accompanying myself on my little Felix the Cat Martin guitar.

For better or for worse, after more than 70 years, Woody's song still remains relevant.

--- Steve

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Bobert
Date: 04 Mar 12 - 10:09 PM

Hey, OWS has won a decisive victory regardless of what the future brings...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 05 Mar 12 - 08:59 PM

Bobert- What victory is that?

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: Bobert
Date: 05 Mar 12 - 09:08 PM

Wait and see how it plays out, Dick...

The seed has been planted and is growing nicely... Like any plant, it grows underground during the winter...

Don't look for this major Occupy thing with city parks being taken over... Just watch how the 2012 election turns out... That wouldn't happen without OWS...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Occupy Wall Street; The 99%
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 06 Mar 12 - 12:28 AM

We changed the conversation.
Until the nutjobs changed it to birth control.
But, we'll take it.