BS: UK thread, Politics and political

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 May 20 - 05:08 PM

So, Nigel, which part of my statement that you quoted was untrue?

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: DMcG
Date: 22 May 20 - 05:13 PM

Then let me be more explicit, Nigel. There is an obvious difference between countries who are committed to free movement but, in full accordance with the legislation allowing temporary restrictions during a pandemic (and fully committed to reopening those borders once the emergency is passed) on the one hand, and on the other a country that has decided not to have free movement at all. There is no inconsistency, in either Guardian or the EU on this: just the expectation that the reader/citizen is able to apply a little thought to distinguish temporary and permenant relationships.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 22 May 20 - 05:46 PM

chronic pedantry may be incurable...???

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: DMcG
Date: 23 May 20 - 02:42 AM

When it comes to inconsistency, of course, I fully expect the Government and the political talking heads like Ian Duncan Smith, to be completely inconsistent in the way Dominic Cumming's flouting of the lockdown rules is treated, when compared with ministers and other advisors like Neil Ferguson and Dr Catherine Calderwood.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 23 May 20 - 05:11 AM

I've never liked cummings (small c for small willy!) and he must suffer the full force of the law for his actions.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 23 May 20 - 05:17 AM

From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 May 20 - 05:08 PM

So, Nigel, which part of my statement that you quoted was untrue?

I didn't claim that it (or any part of it) was untrue, just that although the WWW may contain "all human knowledge" it also contains a load of crap which would make accessing the "knowledge" an almost impossible task.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 May 20 - 05:32 AM

A song for the occasion from the superb Dillie Keane.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 May 20 - 05:59 AM

Fairy nuff, Nigel. Is distraction and diversion now second nature? :-)

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 May 20 - 07:23 AM

I hate Cummings as much as anybody but I'm slightly inclined to hold back on the judging until I know a bit more.

A parallel or two: my son and daughter-in-law live 260 miles from us. Our grandson is the same age as Cummings' son. The missus and I, over a morning brew, discussed what we might do were our son and daughter-in-law to catch the virus. They have family within an hour's drive, but in each household there are small children or vulnerable people. It would probably be down to us to look after the little lad if push came to shove...

We decided that we wouldn't let our son drive to us. The return journey is too much for us to do in a day. We'd probably ask our son to meet us at a services or a junction on the M4 somewhere for a handover (we'd need his child seat in any case), bearing in mind that you can't always cross from one side to the other...He would stay in his car and go straight back home. Big risk for us, but we have no underlying conditions and with luck our son would be sufficiently recovered by the time we came down with it...can't think of anything better...

So what does Dom appear to have done wrong? He drove a very long way unwell. He took two diseased people into a totally different part of the country. He definitely broke the self-isolating rule... His wife wrote what looks like an intentionally misleading piece in The Spectator. Lastly, it's taken two months for this to come out. That smacks of a cover-up both at the Spectator (Tory) and Downing Street (Tory).

What alternatives did they have for their child? It's easy to assume that people like him in high places must have the wherewithal...but we can't be sure... and was he just looking after the interests of a vulnerable person (his son)?

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 May 20 - 07:26 AM

And our plan would also risk bringing the virus to Cornwall, so far a low-incidence zone...

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 May 20 - 07:33 AM

I'm not so forgiving, Steve. Cummings is a twat and if he has done no wrong with this one, he has done plenty before. They got Al Capone on tax evasion didn't they? Anything that nails Cummings will do for me.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: DMcG
Date: 23 May 20 - 08:02 AM

In my view, if they let Cumming's get away this this, they lose all control of lockdown. People will carry out exactly the level isolation they think is appropriate to them, and any coherent approach goes out the proverbial window.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Raggytash
Date: 23 May 20 - 08:34 AM

To my mind there should be no discussion about Cummings. As a "law maker" he has to go.

He knowingly travelled 260 miles while his wife was suffering from the virus and he was showing symptoms of the virus.

The guidelines are that the whole FAMILY had self isolate. Full stop. No if's, no but's no maybes.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 May 20 - 08:47 AM

Well yeah. I'd love to see him go. Good comparison!!

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 May 20 - 10:54 AM

Cummings is one of the most powerful well connected men in our nation..

tory apologits are playing the "wouldn't you do the same thing for your family" sympathy card
to get him off the hook..

Bollocks...!!!

As if he didn't have an extensive support system within his social circle and cabel in parliament..

He could have got help [unavailable to the rest of us mere mortals]
within 5 minutes of making a phone call to his right contacts..

No, instead what he did was panic and run away scared from london to his mummy,

.. like a cowardly ship's senior officer fleeing his sinking ship in a lifeboat.
leaving his passengers and crew to drown...

He needs to be keelhauled...

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: An Buachaill Caol Dubh
Date: 23 May 20 - 11:19 AM

Has there been any speculation about whether or no there were any consideration of the consequences of such clear disregard of these guidelines being discovered?

If there had not been any such consideration, then DC is thick.
If there had - and these people are supposed to be smart - then this event, and the disclosure of it now, appears very much like one more unspoken, and capable of being plausibly denied, encouragement to use individual "Common Sense" in interpreting these "guidelines".
In other words, the inevitable "second spike" can equally inevitably be blamed in part on the actions of "an irresponsible minority". The identities of that irresponsible few ought to be carefully considered.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 May 20 - 11:43 AM

In Cummings's case there are no consequences - already Government spolesmen have said he is totally innocent of all wrongdoing "What would you do in his place" is the foremost excuse
The government reports of what happened have clashed with those described by the police on the spot
Come on fellers - know your place - Mr 'Cunnings' is above all this
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 May 20 - 12:01 PM

Look at dominic run..

The cummings and goings of a scurrying sly shifty rat..

Run rodent, run rodent, run, run, run..

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 May 20 - 01:04 PM

Look! Labour antisemitism!

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 May 20 - 05:29 PM

So it would seems that Cummings made several trips around the Co. Durham area whilst he was supposed to be recovering from Covid-19 in London. All those hypocritical ministers who leapt eagerly to his defence must be feeling pretty stupid now....

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: peteglasgow
Date: 23 May 20 - 07:16 PM

as a citizen who has stayed in and done everything i can to stay safe i must say how very angry and outraged by the actions of this government.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: peteglasgow
Date: 23 May 20 - 07:17 PM

nah, not really - it's hilarious, innit?

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 24 May 20 - 02:12 AM

He's a fool for breaking quarantine, and a considerably bigger fool for getting caught! My thoughts are with the children in such cases.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: DMcG
Date: 24 May 20 - 02:44 AM

I do feel the story has moved on a little from what he did to the intensity of the defences rolled out to defend him. There cannot be many senior ministers officers left who have not leapt to his defence. But so many of these are so weak, you wonder why they think it wise.

"What would you have done?" - Since there are some 257,154 cases now, there are some 257,154 answers to that question, and probably at least one thousand of a couple with a young child where one parent is positive: they can tell him exactly what they did, and I suggest very few of them involved a 500 mile round trip.

"Protecting ones family is what every good parent does." True. But then you ask whether driving 250 miles to see your vulnerable parents the best way of protecting them. And since this government loves war time analogies, evacuating the child and staying in London yourself is a strategy that they could have tried.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 May 20 - 03:19 AM

" My thoughts are with the children in such cases."
There must be millions of families in the same position, if the claims Cunnings made is are accurate anyway) - truth is not a noted feature of these people - it's quite possible he just got bored
Downing Street has contradicted the account of the on-the-spot police as to what happened and it is difficult to find how the two stories differ
A government spokesman first said he broke no rules - he did
Then they said it is understandable he broke the rules - anyone in his position would
They said he didn't stay in the same premises as the family - immaterial and denied by local people anyway
They defended this clown before they got their story straight and once again have exposed themselves as they instinctive liars they are noted for being
It's not the breach of rules that is the main feature here - it's the example it sets to a people being asked to "stay at home and stay safe - that means everybody but us; we'll please ourselves"
Johnson adopted this superior stance from the beginning - gathering shoulder-to-shoulder on camera with people known to be at risk, refusing to be tested then being effected by the virus
That he's not learned his lesson can be shown by the contradictory advice that caused possibly lethal confusion, then, after a heartfelt speech about the danger of making rash decisions, allowing an easing up of the lock-down against the advice of the experts to appease the money-men
Maybe that's Dom Cullings's new culling plan to solve the growing unemployment crisis
My sympathies are with the children too - who the **** deserves to be born into families like that ?

Meanwhile - back at the other asylum
It has now been admitted that there will almost certainly be a sea-border and goods checks around Northern Ireland, despite promises to the contrary
Woulnt'cha you love to be a fly on the wall at the D.U.P. meetings from now on
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 May 20 - 04:55 AM

The media need to be as relentless on Dom’s Cummings and goings (see what I did there?) as they’ve been over the ‘Corbyn/Antisemitism’ nonsense. And Sir Keir Starmer should be kicking down the door of No. 10 about it.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 May 20 - 05:15 AM

However, the chances of Cummings/Cunnings/Cullings resigning/being sacked are zero. Quite simply, he knows too much, too many secrets, about The Johnson Gang for them to risk his taking revenge and dropping them in the shit.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 May 20 - 05:31 AM

...and dropping them in the shit by spilling the beans.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 May 20 - 05:37 AM

Fascinating to see that all this has had a knock-on effect of revealing the vicious in-fighting that is taking place withing the Tort ranks at present over in-house critiscism of the diasterous way the Covid eergency is being handle involving Cabinet secretary Sir Mark Sidwell, who Scummings wants frogmarched out of Downing Street and the dook of Cambs private secretary
Talk about ducks feet paddling wildly underneath
Anybody like to see Dom the Dim being frogmarched out - over Boris' dead body (it seems), hopefully now that would be poetic justice
You can only live in hope
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 May 20 - 06:01 AM

Anna Soubry summed it up perfectly on Twatter last night...

”It’s what happens when an established Charlatan becomes Prime Minister & surrounds himself with 3rd-rate yes men and women of limited ability and integrity. What’s absolutely frightening is that we’re in the middle of a dangerous national crisis and this shower of liars are in charge”

And in another Tweet, a Twitter-member posted...

”I have two small children. My husband and I both had #covid19. My dad died alone in hospital, my mum self-isolated for 14 days after losing him.We got through it all without extra childcare or breaking the lockdown. He disrespects our loss and sacrifice.”

And there, in two short pieces, you absolutely have it. Cummings is an utter disgrace, and completely unfit for public service of any kind, and the Tory Liars are unfit to govern.

What a shambles the working-class Neo-Tories dropped us into when they fell for a meaningless three-word slogan, and voted Tory at the GE.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: An Buachaill Caol Dubh
Date: 24 May 20 - 07:41 AM

He probably does know rather too much for convenience.
Does he own a pen-knife?

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 May 20 - 08:15 AM

There have been two other sightings of Cumbag in the same area over the last month, one in the holiday area of Barnard Castle - both denied, of course
Despite of cals from within the Tory party- including from Government ministers who are citing the dangerously confusing effect this behaviour this is generating - Johnson is defending him - obviously unaware of the 'rats, sinking ship' though hee has just been called to Downing Street
Nearly as blood-sportish as Brexit
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: DMcG
Date: 24 May 20 - 08:29 AM

There's one for Nigel to get his teeth into here. The advice for reopening schools and nurseries says:

children under 2 years need 3.5 metres squared per child

(and similar phrases for other ages.)

Ok. Now there is scientific, business, engineering and established convention for such things of saying '3.5 square metres' if that is what you mean. So was there a deliberate intention to avoid saying '3.5 square metres' and say '3.5 metres squared' to denote they meant the somewhat rarer convention that 3.5 metres squared means 3.5 metres by 3.5 metres, which is about four times as big?

I think we all would agree it is worth knowing whether they meant the smaller space or the larger space.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: DMcG
Date: 24 May 20 - 08:38 AM

... or, I should have said, is it someone who didn't know any better simply transcribing how

3.5m²
is usually pronounced.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 24 May 20 - 11:02 AM

DMcG: I agree with your understanding, although I haven't actually seen the advice you're quoting. 3.5 square metres would be about right, with each pupil having a 1m circle into which the next pupils exclusion circle should not encroach (keeping a minimum distance of 2m between pupils).
It's possible that someone has tried 'simplifying' the advice, and failed. The description I give above is, of course, also a simplification, as pupils at the outside of a group would only need a semi-circle of exclusion zone.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 24 May 20 - 11:04 AM

Of course, I should also have clarified that as a one metre (radius) circle.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: DMcG
Date: 24 May 20 - 11:18 AM

I think the physics of that is about right, Nigel - after all a 3.5m sided room is about a room each!

But it does raise the question why the government should use a terminology completely inconsistent with all the established norms.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 May 20 - 11:22 AM

Well, "Dominic Cummings hasn't done anything wrong" is terminologically completely inconsistent with all of the established norms, so don't be too surprised!

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: DMcG
Date: 24 May 20 - 12:49 PM

I have to agree with that one, Steve!

If Johnson thinks he has drawn a line under this, I think he will find he is mistaken. Tomorrow's papers analysis of this press conference will certainly highlight the unanswered questions, such as :

Johnson is asked whether his support for Cummings means that other people are completely at liberty to do as his chief aide did.

“I think what they did was totally understandable,” Johnson replied. “I think any father, any parent would understand what he did.”

---

Well, maybe you do, but that was not the question, was it?

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 May 20 - 01:15 PM

Having now accepted the the Cumming's traveller 200 miles with syptoms of the virus Johnson says he did no wrong because he did "something every parent would have done"
Johnson has now taken a political cyanide pill in defence of this non elected thug - he needs to stand trial for endangering the lives of the public
Scummings cheif critic in the cabinet - the leading Brexiteer who first demanded his expulsion has stated that this feller has always behaved as if he is above both Government decisions and above the law
Id it possible Jonno the joker and his henchmen are making the beast with two backs, I wonder - something seems to be going on between them
WOULDN'T be the FIRST TIME
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 May 20 - 01:15 PM

Having now accepted the the Cumming's traveller 200 miles with syptoms of the virus Johnson says he did no wrong because he did "something every parent would have done"
Johnson has now taken a political cyanide pill in defence of this non elected thug - he needs to stand trial for endangering the lives of the public
Scummings cheif critic in the cabinet - the leading Brexiteer who first demanded his expulsion has stated that this feller has always behaved as if he is above both Government decisions and above the law
Id it possible Jonno the joker and his henchmen are making the beast with two backs, I wonder - something seems to be going on between them
WOULDN'T be the FIRST TIME
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 May 20 - 01:18 PM

I guess that unelected bureaucrats doing what they want is the norm. That will s what people voted to stop in 2016. Oh, hang on....

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 24 May 20 - 01:29 PM

Out of all the most arrogant callous despicable people associated with this govt,
cummings is the one who would look most naturally at home
in an N@zi SS officer's uniform...

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 May 20 - 01:53 PM

THERE IS A RESEMBLANCE
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 May 20 - 01:59 PM

It's a pity there isn't anyone here trying to defend Cummings. We could do with a laugh :-D

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: DMcG
Date: 24 May 20 - 02:11 PM

It is easy to defend Cummings. All you have do is say:

I believe he was justified and within the rules

irrespective of what the question is.

Of course, it is not actually a very good defence...

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 May 20 - 02:12 PM

Come on. I know there are still some Tories on here. Let's hear your excuses. Would you be so quiet if Jeremy Corbyn had flaunted the lockdown rules?

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: peteglasgow
Date: 24 May 20 - 02:35 PM

to me it's way beyond cummings now. the government will lie, lie and lie again to protect him. i can't really think what they have to gain by this shameless hypocrisy. i'm sure there are millions of people extremely cheated, patronised and angry now. it is certainly my instinct to do what i can to protect my family, my community and my country - but they are lucky bas***ds - can you imagine the size and anger of a demonstration in london, now, if we weren't all doing as instructed and observing lockdown guidelines. i miss john major.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 24 May 20 - 02:36 PM

Starmer is tactfully standing back from attacking cummings and insisting on his dismissal,
because enough dismayed conservatives are already doing it themselves...

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 May 20 - 03:16 PM

Anybody else wonder if the Cummings farrago is a deliberate, Tory-government-induced distraction-tactic to take the public’s minds off the 36,000 deaths in the U.K. from Covid-19?

Wouldn’t put it past the slimy bastards.