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1870's Martin destroyed for a movie

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Subject: 1870's Martin destroyed for a movie
From: Wesley S
Date: 04 Feb 16 - 11:03 PM

A story from the Reverb website:

Story Here


Reverb's story "The Hateful Eight" Hates on Six Strings" contains information about the destruction of the priceless 145-years-old instrument that Dick Boak, director of the museum, archives and special projects for C.F. Martin & Co., says the company was not previously aware of.

In the film, John Ruth, played by Kurt Russell, grabs a guitar from Daisy Domergue, played by Jennifer Jason Leigh, and smashes it, eliciting horror. However, the smashed guitar was an authentic Martin from the 1870s, on loan from the Martin Guitar Museum, rather than one of several copies on hand for the shoot.

"We were informed that it was an accident on set," Boak says. "We assumed that a scaffolding or something fell on it. We understand that things happen, but at the same time we can't take this lightly. All this about the guitar being smashed being written into the script and that somebody just didn't tell the actor, this is all new information to us. We didn't know anything about the script or Kurt Russell not being told that it was a priceless, irreplaceable artifact from the Martin Museum."

According to the film's Academy Award-winning sound mixer Mark Ulano, as quoted in SSNInsider.com, the scene was to be shot up to a certain point, a cut made, the guitar swapped out for a double and for the double to be smashed. "Well, somehow that didn't get communicated to Kurt, so when you see that happen on the frame, Jennifer's reaction is genuine," Ulano said, as quoted in SSNInsider.com.

As a result of the incident, the company will no longer loan guitars to movies under any circumstances."
Further, Boak says that Martin did not offer a replacement, as stated in the SSNInsider.com. "As a result of the incident, the company will no longer loan guitars to movies under any circumstances," Boak says.

To add insult to injury, Boak says the guitar was insured for its purchase price, which doesn't reflect its value as an irreplaceable museum artifact. Boak also says that Martin requested that the pieces be returned for a possible restoration, not for inclusion in the Martin Museum as stated in SSNInsider.com. "Upon inspection of the pieces, we realized that the guitar was beyond fixing," Boak said. "It's destroyed."

"We want to make sure that people know that the incident was very distressing to us," Boak says. "We can't believe that it happened. I don't think anything can really remedy this. We've been remunerated for the insurance value, but it's not about the money. It's about the preservation of American musical history and heritage."


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Subject: RE: 1870's Martin destroyed for a movie
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Feb 16 - 11:17 PM

Yet Another reason to dislike that terrible movie


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Subject: RE: 1870's Martin destroyed for a movie
From: Ged Fox
Date: 05 Feb 16 - 05:23 AM

Rule 1: never lend anything for use on stage if you want to get it back.


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Subject: RE: 1870's Martin destroyed for a movie
From: Will Fly
Date: 05 Feb 16 - 05:35 AM

I can't understand why they had to have the original for filming if there were several copies available anyway. The person playing it could have used a good visual copy for the filming and the Foley engineer could have added sound from the original in post-production.

Hey ho...


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Subject: RE: 1870's Martin destroyed for a movie
From: GUEST,Sol
Date: 05 Feb 16 - 06:19 AM

Ditto to what Will Fly says above.
IMO, Martin & Co are just as dumb as the movie makers.

I suppose there's some comfort to be had in that it was an old guitar & not a new one ;-)


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Subject: RE: 1870's Martin destroyed for a movie
From: Acme
Date: 05 Feb 16 - 07:45 AM

They won't make that mistake again.


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Subject: RE: 1870's Martin destroyed for a movie
From: Wesley S
Date: 05 Feb 16 - 07:52 AM

"They won't make that mistake again."

Exactly. So should Tarintino or Kurt Russell man up and pay for the guitar?

And SOMEWHERE on line I've seen the video of the guitar being smashed. I've tried to find the clip and can't. But you can see the look on Jennifer Jason Leigh's face when it happens - she was really shocked.


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Subject: RE: 1870's Martin destroyed for a movie
From: gillymor
Date: 05 Feb 16 - 08:03 AM

Why didn't Martin send along a babysitter to keep a close eye on the old guitar and if they did why not send a more competent one? They could have had the expense written into the loan contract.

Also, with all their skilled luthiers they could have manufactured a very near replica distressed to look like an antique instrument, sold it to the film maker, bought it back and ensconced it in a display case in their museum.

The mind boggles.


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Subject: RE: 1870's Martin destroyed for a movie
From: Wesley S
Date: 05 Feb 16 - 08:22 AM

Here's the clip. It happens around 3:30.



Video here


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Subject: RE: 1870's Martin destroyed for a movie
From: GUEST,Howard Jones
Date: 05 Feb 16 - 08:23 AM

Surely it was the director's responsibility to make sure the original was swapped for a prop at the appropriate time, and to make sure the actors knew what was supposed to happen?

Guitar Player reports that "Tarantino was in a corner of the room with a funny curl on his lips, because he got something out of it with the performance." Makes you wonder...


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Subject: RE: 1870's Martin destroyed for a movie
From: GUEST,Stuart E
Date: 05 Feb 16 - 08:49 AM

Indeed, it does make you wonder. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the "accident" was no accident, but not the fault of the actor in question...


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Subject: RE: 1870's Martin destroyed for a movie
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Feb 16 - 09:16 AM

In the mega budget movie business where vintage classic cars and trains etc
have routinely been destroyed for explosive on screen effect
do you really think they will be too bothered about an old guitar ?


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Subject: RE: 1870's Martin destroyed for a movie
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 05 Feb 16 - 10:18 AM

Having worked backstage and seen the usually low level of intelligence that prevails there, I am shocked that a museum director would entrust anything of value to anybody in show business.


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Subject: RE: 1870's Martin destroyed for a movie
From: kendall
Date: 05 Feb 16 - 10:28 AM

No way will I watch that film. I'm wanting smash a new Japanese replica over HIS head.


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Subject: RE: 1870's Martin destroyed for a movie
From: GUEST,#
Date: 05 Feb 16 - 10:45 AM

Bloody sad is what that is.


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Subject: RE: 1870's Martin destroyed for a movie
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Feb 16 - 10:31 AM

It's just a guitar. There are plenty more guitars around the world.


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Subject: RE: 1870's Martin destroyed for a movie
From: Wesley S
Date: 06 Feb 16 - 02:23 PM

I would agree if we were talking about banjos but we're not....


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Subject: RE: 1870's Martin destroyed for a movie
From: gillymor
Date: 06 Feb 16 - 03:36 PM

I was wondering how long it would take for banjo envy to rear it's ugly head.


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Subject: RE: 1870's Martin destroyed for a movie
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 06 Feb 16 - 06:26 PM

And just think of all those pianos that got smashed up "for fun"!


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Subject: RE: 1870's Martin destroyed for a movie
From: Jack Campin
Date: 06 Feb 16 - 06:34 PM

Can we persuade Tarantino to make a movie featuring a bodhran player?


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Subject: RE: 1870's Martin destroyed for a movie
From: LadyJean
Date: 06 Feb 16 - 07:44 PM

My old neighborhood was a popular location for film crews. They cut down trees, towed cars, one set even played frisbee on the roof of my old apartment building. Movie people think anything they use is theirs, to destroy if they have to.


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Subject: RE: 1870's Martin destroyed for a movie
From: GUEST,gecko
Date: 06 Feb 16 - 10:12 PM

Steady up there, Mr Campin! Some of us strive for sensitivity in our playing - it's not our fault if the guitarists fuck up the rhythm......
YIU
gecko


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Subject: RE: 1870's Martin destroyed for a movie
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Feb 16 - 01:48 AM

Thanks, guys, for remaining good-natured and not kicking me in the balls for my comment above!

I am sorry that the guitar got smashed, I'd far prefer it didn't, but I don't see it as the portent of Armageddon the way some others seem to! 😄

And, FWIW, I like banjos, pianos, bodhrans and accordions. It's those f***ing pukeleles I can't stand! 😎


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Subject: RE: 1870's Martin destroyed for a movie
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 07 Feb 16 - 11:38 PM

Joking aside-

Are we sure the smashing of the antique guitar actually happened? I googled 'Tarantino smashed guitar,' and got pages of links. But only one was to a source I recognized - Vanity Fair. (a fashion magazine, really?) And it was frank about its only source being something called SSN.

Reading the links made it obvious that all these people were quoting one another. Who checked the story?


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Subject: RE: 1870's Martin destroyed for a movie
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 08 Feb 16 - 12:24 AM

Good point, Leeneia. News is full of these shock·horror stories, many of which turn out to have been invented in someone's editorial office when hard news was short.
Before I inherited my proper banjo, BWM, of which I am v fond [see my Youtube channel], I had a ukulele-banjo to get that sort of effect which was v nice to play. Too many knockers on this forum -- and I don't mean tits; except mebbe in a sort of idiomatic sense.

❤❤·2·all

≈M≈


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Subject: RE: 1870's Martin destroyed for a movie
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 Feb 16 - 01:52 AM

I couldn't find any mention on the CFM website, and nothing official on the FB page, just mentions in 'guest' postings. I read that six replicas were built for use in the film, but that the actual guitar was used during the shoot, for some inexplicable reason.

It would be interesting to hear officially from CFM, but they seem very tight-lipped.

Michael, I'm very attracted to a five-string banjo, and I'm thinking I might acquire one, although I have a tenor guitar on the way, and I'll need to get my head (and hands) around that first, and I'm finding that, in my dotage, my musical skills don't transfer as easily as they used to.

Perversely (and, according to Mrs. Fenswoman, I am the World Master of The Art of Perversity), despite my dislike of pukuleles (or, more accurately, the current trend for every performer in folk clubs and venues to think they have to include at least one song in every set on which the pukulele is featured), I actually like the banjolele - a much more pleasing sound as far as my ears are concerned.

But, hey-ho, it's each to his own, I guess!


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Subject: RE: 1870's Martin destroyed for a movie
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Feb 16 - 07:06 AM

When it comes to the banjolele, you're either leaning on a lamp post or you're not.


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Subject: RE: 1870's Martin destroyed for a movie
From: Jack Campin
Date: 08 Feb 16 - 07:29 AM

This seems to be a compilation of Martin's press releases:

https://www.martinguitar.com/about/news/

and the story isn't there. Looks like Leeneia's suspicions are on the mark.


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Subject: RE: 1870's Martin destroyed for a movie
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 08 Feb 16 - 11:10 AM

Well, good. That story was bothering me, but now I can fluff it off.

Now I'm going to visit YouTube and see what a banjolele sounds like.


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Subject: RE: 1870's Martin destroyed for a movie
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Feb 16 - 11:48 AM

Leeenia - youtube George Formby


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Subject: RE: 1870's Martin destroyed for a movie
From: Wesley S
Date: 08 Feb 16 - 11:52 AM

If you are in doubt just check the facebook page of Dick Boak of C.F. Martin Guitars and read it for yourself.



Dick Boak of Martin Guitars


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Subject: RE: 1870's Martin destroyed for a movie
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 08 Feb 16 - 06:31 PM

I have a banjolele: it is LOUD!!!


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Subject: RE: 1870's Martin destroyed for a movie
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 08 Feb 16 - 06:47 PM

I happen to think Tarentino is a hack and a sensationalist. I wouldn't put it past him to have the guitar smashed to garner a little publicity for his newest piece of drivel. I also wouldn't put it past him to concoct a story like this to create some buzz about the film. I can't watch the video. It would be like watching an execution. Guess I'm a sentimentalist, but I think a guitar acquires some soul from every one who plays it, and an old guitar is something more than an object.


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Subject: RE: 1870's Martin destroyed for a movie
From: olddude
Date: 08 Feb 16 - 07:58 PM

Did anyone see my martin guitar, it was a reallyold one and iI loaned it to some guy making a movie. I can't figure out where it is


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Subject: RE: 1870's Martin destroyed for a movie
From: GUEST,Lou Judson
Date: 08 Feb 16 - 08:08 PM

Agree with you, EJ! I have never seen a Tarantino movie and now wil lbe sure I never do, even for free. The movie industry is really crap. Only two films made last year are on my to-see list.


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Subject: RE: 1870's Martin destroyed for a movie
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 08 Feb 16 - 10:30 PM

... some of you talk such intolerant self-righteous bollocks about popular culture.
It's no good telling you to stop being so precious and silly,
it's probably too late for that.

Old guitars can be wonderful things;
and Tarantino can make exceptionally intelligent and entertaining mainstream movies.

If this antique martin has been destroyed through negligence, or even perverse wilful destruction...
that's bad, and sad....

but it aint the end of the world.............

Worse real tragedies happen every day in peoples lives.

Do try to keep it in perspective..... 😣


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Subject: RE: 1870's Martin destroyed for a movie
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 09 Feb 16 - 10:05 AM

Yawn....


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Subject: RE: 1870's Martin destroyed for a movie
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 09 Feb 16 - 11:15 AM

Tarentino is capable of making exceptionally intelligent movies. He just hasn't made one in about 10 years.


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Subject: RE: 1870's Martin destroyed for a movie
From: gillymor
Date: 09 Feb 16 - 11:25 AM

Dan, I think I saw Arnold run over it in a Humvee in Terminator 17. Sorry, but it's kindling.


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Subject: RE: 1870's Martin destroyed for a movie
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 09 Feb 16 - 11:45 AM

More precisely.. in recent years tarantino makes exceptionally brilliant scenes within variable quality self-indulgent over-long movies....


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Subject: RE: 1870's Martin destroyed for a movie
From: olddude
Date: 09 Feb 16 - 12:04 PM

Gilly oh no


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Subject: RE: 1870's Martin destroyed for a movie
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 Feb 16 - 01:12 PM

" some of you talk such intolerant self-righteous bollocks about popular culture.
It's no good telling you to stop being so precious and silly,
it's probably too late for that.

Old guitars can be wonderful things;
and Tarantino can make exceptionally intelligent and entertaining mainstream movies.

If this antique martin has been destroyed through negligence, or even perverse wilful destruction...
that's bad, and sad....

but it aint the end of the world.............

Worse real tragedies happen every day in peoples lives.

Do try to keep it in perspective....."


Beware, PFR - I posted similar sentiments on another forum and was almost lynched. A guitar is just a guitar, no human beings were harmed in the incident, and that's the important thing AFAIC.


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Subject: RE: 1870's Martin destroyed for a movie
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 09 Feb 16 - 01:29 PM

Yeah.. well.. - anyone who 'knows' me here, knows just how much of my life and £££$$$ have been devoted to my incurable abject love of guitars...

So when I say "it's only a guitar" I believe it's a necessary point worth making... 😝


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Subject: RE: 1870's Martin destroyed for a movie
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 Feb 16 - 01:36 PM

Yep, mine too! My cronies call me 'ATGNI' - All The Gear, No Idea!


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Subject: RE: 1870's Martin destroyed for a movie
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 09 Feb 16 - 02:12 PM

punkfolkrocker, I actually agree. Tarantino has great talent, but to see him wasting it on the Grindcore stuff and comic book-versions of reality such as Django Unchained and Inglourious Bastards is sad. Dusk 'til Dawn might be the single worst film of the last ten years. What happened to the promise shown in Reservoir Dogs and Pulp Fiction, when he looked like a blend of Peckinpaugh and the Coen Brothers? He has been encouraged in his worst tendencies through pandering to his audience.

As for the guitar, a goddamned shame. I'm not losing sleep over it, if that's what you thought.


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Subject: RE: 1870's Martin destroyed for a movie
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Feb 16 - 05:56 PM

SMASH CRASH SPLINTERS !!!!


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Subject: RE: 1870's Martin destroyed for a movie
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 10 Feb 16 - 07:49 AM

Not sure that the guitar in question was worth a lot--the pre-1900 Martin parlor guitars seem to be offered for between 3k and 10k on eBay, though they don't seem to sell very well.

That's in the range of what a new one might cost-a couple of the articles say that there were 6 props made up--it seems to me that if Martin made replicas, those each would have probably cost the same as the vintage that was broken--

I do feel pain for the lost guitar, no matter what it was worth.


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Subject: RE: 1870's Martin destroyed for a movie
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 10 Feb 16 - 12:18 PM

But it's not a sure thing that the smashing ever happened.


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Subject: RE: 1870's Martin destroyed for a movie
From: Wesley S
Date: 10 Feb 16 - 04:06 PM

Leeneia. Please check the link I provided above to Dick Boaks facebook page. Do you know who he is? He's provided conformation as to what happened.


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Subject: RE: 1870's Martin destroyed for a movie
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Feb 16 - 05:02 PM

someone needs to copy paste the text of that facebook link for all here who don't facebook, so don't have access.


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Subject: RE: 1870's Martin destroyed for a movie
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Feb 16 - 05:26 PM


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Subject: RE: 1870's Martin destroyed for a movie
From: cnd
Date: 10 Feb 16 - 06:17 PM

From Boak's Facebook page:

"Dick Boak That's not the true story! We were told that there was an accident on the set. We didn't know it was in the script. We certainly didn't ask if they wanted another one. We did ask for the pieces to see whether we could salvage anything. We couldn't! We got paid a fraction of its value because we had it on our books for what we originally acquired the instrument for. This is very upsetting!

https://reverb.com/blog/the-hateful-eight-hates-on-six-strings?_aid=newsletter&utm_source=newsletter&utm_campaign=175502ea04-rn1"

End quote


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Subject: RE: 1870's Martin destroyed for a movie
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 10 Feb 16 - 08:49 PM

When a movie is in the theaters, and especially when it is up for an Oscar, the studios take every opportunity to to generate media attention. It's worth noting that Dick Boak refused to give any information on either the value of the instrument to Business Insider, who contacted him to confirm the story.

If you read this Pre-1900 Martin you'll get some documented information about the actual market value of the pre-1900 Martin parlor guitars--and you'll see that they are not highly valued.

You'll also see pictures of the instrument--particularly the neck and headstock--it says that the pre-1900 Martin guitars had a distinctive volute behind the nut(and there is big photo that shows exactly what a volute looks like). There is a place in the video clip where you can see the guitar from the back. There does not appear to be a volute on the guitar in the movie.

This would seem to indicate that the guitar smashed in the movie was not a pre-1900 Martin. For the record, I am not an expert of any sort on Martin guitars, but I do know a bit about Hollywood;-)


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Subject: RE: 1870's Martin destroyed for a movie
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Feb 16 - 11:46 PM

We await the Director's commentary track on the Blu-ray/DVD


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Subject: RE: 1870's Martin destroyed for a movie
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 11 Feb 16 - 02:16 AM

As a multiple-Martin-owner, and a Martin-lover, I'm very sceptical. The whole thing had the ring of a story concocted to drum up publicity for a movie and a guitar manufacturer. Too much sidestepping and non-information.

I hope I'm right.


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Subject: RE: 1870's Martin destroyed for a movie
From: Wesley S
Date: 11 Feb 16 - 08:52 AM

If that's the case then Dick Boak is in on it too. It's a wide spread conspiracy.

Y'know I've always suspected that Dick Boak was the guy that destroyed Barak Obama's real Kenyan birth certificate.


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Subject: RE: 1870's Martin destroyed for a movie
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 11 Feb 16 - 02:52 PM

Dick Boak is the one who supplied the Martin guitars for the film in the first place, so of course he is in on it. Don't forget that this is publicity for Martin, too.

Don't forget also that companies like Martin typically pay large amounts of money for product placement in major motion pictures, which "Hateful Eight" which has grossed $130 million worldwide, certainly is.


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Subject: RE: 1870's Martin destroyed for a movie
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 12 Feb 16 - 09:12 AM

I could start a Facebook page myself and say my name is Dick Boak.


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Subject: RE: 1870's Martin destroyed for a movie
From: Wesley S
Date: 12 Feb 16 - 02:17 PM

You're right Leeneia. You caught me. Nothing is real. Everything is false. I should have known you would see right through me and the many websites and fake facebook pages by well known people trying to pull a fast one over on you. Well played.


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Subject: RE: 1870's Martin destroyed for a movie
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 Feb 16 - 04:04 PM

Dick Boak's FB page does **look** official. But there doesn't seem to be a lot about the broken guitar incident on there - certainly nothing like the horror and outrage I'd expect.


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Subject: RE: 1870's Martin destroyed for a movie
From: gillymor
Date: 12 Feb 16 - 04:52 PM

It made Billboard.


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Subject: RE: 1870's Martin destroyed for a movie
From: Wesley S
Date: 12 Feb 16 - 09:34 PM

Yeah but ANYBODY can make up a fake webpage and call themselves Billboard magazine. How do we KNOW it's for real???


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Subject: RE: 1870's Martin destroyed for a movie
From: Bugsy
Date: 13 Feb 16 - 10:55 PM

I was talking to Paul Duff, Luthier and Mandolin player with Bluegrass Parkway on Friday, and he was telling us a story about Bill Monroe and how someone smashed one of his precious Mandolins to smithereens. Aparantly, it was sent back to Gibson and they managed to piece it together again.
That was back in the '30's, and if Gibson could do it Surely CF Martin could also?

Just a thought

Bugsy


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Subject: RE: 1870's Martin destroyed for a movie
From: gillymor
Date: 14 Feb 16 - 06:11 AM

If you're referring to Monroe's 1923 Gibson F-5 from the Lloyd Loar era, the incident occurred on November 13, 1985 and Gibson returned the restored mandolin to him on February 25, 1986.


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Subject: RE: 1870's Martin destroyed for a movie
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 14 Feb 16 - 11:51 AM

Not to beat a dead horse here, but the Monroe's Lloyd Loar is worth about $200k, the Martin Parlor Guitars are more in the range of $5k.


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Subject: RE: 1870's Martin destroyed for a movie
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 15 Feb 16 - 04:35 AM

"When it comes to the banjolele, you're either leaning on a lamp post or you're not."
.,,.,

Slowburn cumbak
--

Surely depends on your past Formby


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Subject: RE: 1870's Martin destroyed for a movie
From: Bugsy
Date: 15 Feb 16 - 07:22 AM

Point is Guest Stim, if the guitar is an irreplacable artifact as stated in the original statement, then it's worth restoring, and if Martin can't do it, maybe Gibson can?

Cheers

Bugsy


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Subject: RE: 1870's Martin destroyed for a movie
From: Mark Ross
Date: 15 Feb 16 - 10:04 AM

Monroe's F5 sold for a million after he died. I also think that the vandal smashed up TWO Loars, and the Gibson repairman managed to seperate the pieces to dtermine which splinter went with each. A miraculous job.

Mark Ross


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Subject: RE: 1870's Martin destroyed for a movie
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 15 Feb 16 - 03:47 PM

My point Bugsy, is that the guitar does not seem to have been an irreplaceable artifact, and that, far from being priceless, it would have had a relatively low value when compared to Martin guitars of a later vintage. Just because something is old doesn't mean it's worth a lot.

As to Mark Ross' post-I have always opposed capital punishment, but in this case...;-)


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Subject: RE: 1870's Martin destroyed for a movie
From: Bugsy
Date: 15 Feb 16 - 06:55 PM

And MY point, Stim is that the in the original post it is quoted to be "the destruction of the priceless 145-years-old instrument" It matters not what the guitar was worth when it was first made.

A "Penny Black" was only worth a Penny when it was new.

CHeers

Bugsy


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