Tuning an Irish whistle

Subject: RE: Tuning an Irish whistle
From: GUEST,guest
Date: 09 Mar 04 - 01:58 AM

I appologise if this is considered "thread slip" but many years ago, my Scots fiddle-player uncle showed us kids how to make a whistle (not a "Penny Whistle") out of a tin can lid. These days I make them from flat bits of aluminum siding.
Now, Honest-to-God! the following is true - it is not even near April 1 yet! but here is how to make one of these whistles.
What I want to know is: There are a lot of experienced whistle players here - has any other player ever seen or played one of these?
The technique is to make a circular piece of thin metal 3" to 4" in diameter (snips work OK) then place some kind of spacer (thin plywood) about 1/8" thich across the diameter of the circle and bend the piece in two. The spacer bit stops the two sides becoming flat against one another at the bend. You now have a semi-circle (top plan) and an elongated "C" (side plan).
insert a thin 1/8" piece of plywood between the two layers (to keep them apart) and (in the center of the straight part of the semi-circle about 1/4" from the bend edge) drill a 1/4" hole through both layers of metal and the plywood. Remove the burr from both layers (you have to open it up a bit to get the inside burr). Drill the hole the bottom (on that layer only) out to 3/16". Take a file and remove all the sharp edges and burrs and then wash the piece (Very Important (Jimmyt - listen to your mother) - you are going to put this in your mouth).
Now you have a semicircle with a hole on top slightly smaller than the one on the bottom. The holes should line up.
Playing this, like Leeniea says, is by varying the size of the chamber in your mouth (similar to playing the Lone Ranger by tapping a pencil on your cheek).      
Holding the ends of the whistle between thumb and middle finger with the edge with the hole closest to you and the smaller hole up, put the whistle in your mouth (clamp down with your lips to make a good seal) and put the tip of your tongue at the edge of the top (small) hole, leaving some room for air to pass through and blow using a kind of "THSSP" shape of your tongue.   
The next bit is problematic, I've had people get a note right away and people who never got a note. The important thing is to persevere until you can get a sustainable note. Move the tip of your tongue forward and back across the top hole. Sometimes adjusting the space between the two plates helps, either opening it up or closing it a bit until you get that first note.
Once you get the first note, you can vary it by pressing the whistle further into your mouth and puffing up your cheeks.
It doesn't have a big range but the sound has a kind of a flutey-sweet-potato pleasing timbre to it.

Subject: RE: Tuning an Irish whistle
From: Blackcatter
Date: 08 Mar 04 - 11:57 PM

changed the three-finger note by a half step just by moving the tip of my tongue parallel to the roof of my mouth

Leenia - I tried that on several of my whistles and did not notice any difference. And I'm used to doing that since I play nose flute as well.

It's all interesting.

Subject: RE: Tuning an Irish whistle
From: GUEST,guest
Date: 08 Mar 04 - 11:43 PM

Dave The Gnome: good explanation! 'Course, maybe Blackcatter is going to do it with his WHISTLE!
Jimmyt: What did your mother tell you do with ANYTHING before you put it in your mouth?
Stu: The blutack thing's a new one on me and undoubtedly needs to be explained by someone who understands Boyle's Law, Charles' Law, Avagadro's Principle and Bernoulli's Principle. I can't imagine whistle manufacturers going that deeply into the science. I've read these theories then still watch in amazement as Jumbo Jets impossibly take to the sky. And it's always a surprise to me when a gas pump shuts itself off when my tank is full!

Subject: RE: Tuning an Irish whistle
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 08 Mar 04 - 11:35 PM

The original post mentioned a whistle that plays in tune but is not clear. Perhaps it has the problem one of my whistles had - when the maker drilled the holes, the filings (swarf) were left clinging to the edge of the hole inside the whistle. Such craftsmanship!

My sister-in-law took a whistle class from at Milwaukee's Irishfest. She said, "The teacher could play so beautifully. Of course, he had a $150 penny whistle."

I play recorder and flute and have gone to a number of workshops with high-caliber teachers. One thing I've learned is that these instruments respond to your breathing and the shape of your mouth. Today I picked up a whistle and changed the three-finger note by a half step just by moving the tip of my tongue parallel to the roof of my mouth. So it isn't just a question of putting the right number of fingers down and getting the note - ta ta!

In my experience, whistles are so cheaply made and unreliable that it is better to play a recorder when that St. Patrick's Day gig comes around. Unless, perhaps, you have one of those $150 "penny whistles."

Subject: RE: Tuning an Irish whistle
From: s&r
Date: 08 Mar 04 - 06:36 PM

A whistle maker whose name escapes me swears that if you fill the small recess inside and just below the mouthpiece with blutack or similar the whistle overblows in key. Something to do with the turbulence

Stu

Subject: RE: Tuning an Irish whistle
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 08 Mar 04 - 04:39 PM

Subject: RE: Tuning an Irish whistle
From: jimmyt
Date: 08 Mar 04 - 01:30 PM

Let me throw in a question to piggyback on this excellent thread. I have a set of Tony DIxon WHistles recommended by Leadfingers, and by and large I really love them. The last couple times I have played the g whistle though in a session I have noticed the upper register has flaws in it, ie with the same amount of airflow on any other whistle it would easily play well in the upper register, but this G won't hold the register playing quietly. It is not related to technique as it didn't happen a couple weeks ago asn it only happens on this whistle. Could this be related to crud in the fipple or something gross like that? How frequently to you clean your whistles? i am sort of a newcomer to the instrument so be gentle with me!   Thanks jimmyt

Subject: RE: Tuning an Irish whistle
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 08 Mar 04 - 10:15 AM

Blackcatter, have fun, send us the video. All whistle players should have that joke in their collection.
Richard H, I've had whistles that refuse to come apart. Sometimes, as a last resort, you have to revert to brute force and ignorance. I once made a small tool with two pieces of wood with a hole (slightly smaller than the dimeter of the pipe) drilled so that each piece had a semiciscular groove that would clamp the metal part of the whistle in a vise without squashing the pipe. I used a very small pipe wrench on the plastic bit. The secret is not to try to twist it off but to turn the pipe wrench tight till it is almost to the point of turning then give the handle end of the pipe wrench a sharp tap with a hammer to break the seal. This tends to crack the plastic about 50% of the time(I did say it was a last resort), so if you really need to have a tuneable whistle you should buy at least two in the same key in the first place. The method above gets the metal pipe off in one piece, you then have to try to cut, bend, bash and saw the pipe to get the plastic bit off in one piece from the second whistle.
S&R's method with the ring spanner (wrench) will also work using the wooden vise jig to hold the pipe steady.
I really wasn't joking about the grinder, either. The plastic part has a stop inside it, designed to set the whistle at that key. Getting the plastic bit off only allows you to "flatten" the instrument. By grinding a little bit off the end of the metal pipe (the end that goes into the plastic part), you can then push the pipe farther in than it originally went to also "sharpen" the whistle.
Not every unplayable whistle is completely useless. I found an old C whistle was exactly the right diameter to release a "quick-fit" connector on the hose of my car's fuel pump!

Subject: RE: Tuning an Irish whistle
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Mar 04 - 09:43 AM

I thought f off was a key for an out of tune whistle...

:D

Subject: RE: Tuning an Irish whistle
From: Blackcatter
Date: 07 Mar 04 - 11:36 PM

Auf Deutsch: "Ich werde später gehen f *** selbst heute abend."

Glad another whistle player nows about Chiff & Fipple. It's one of my 4 favorite music websites:

The Mudcat
Chiff & Fipple
The Jews Harp Guild
Blackcatter's World of TV Theme Lyrics

Of course, I host the last one . . .

Subject: RE: Tuning an Irish whistle
From: GUEST,Richard H
Date: 07 Mar 04 - 11:26 PM

Don't worry, Blackcatter. I was in no way offended. Besides, if this damn mouthpiece doesn't come off tommorow, I may have to resort to Guest's advice and use a hammer to flatten it. So far it's been totally unresponsive to hot water.

But, hell, I've learned a lot today. Like Chiff and Fipple, how much an Overton costs, that a tinwhistle has a third register... I even used the translation facility on this site to check how a pertinent phrase in your last post sounds in French: "Je vais aller *** de f moi-meme plus tard ce soir" is what came out. Sounds good!

Subject: RE: Tuning an Irish whistle
From: Blackcatter
Date: 07 Mar 04 - 05:14 PM

Sorry GUEST, Guest - but it's one thing to joke and add constructive help (like you did in your second post), that to jsut post a negative statement. Richard could have seen your first post and decided that we're not nice and helpful around here and have left. That's not fair for someone (especially someone who has not registered here) to do in my opinion.

Just to show you there's no hard feelings - I'm going to go f*** myself leater on this evening.

Sone if the "cheap" whistles are wonderfully in tune. You need to pick and choose, but some of my Clarkes and Generations are among my favorites.

Subject: RE: Tuning an Irish whistle
From: s&r
Date: 07 Mar 04 - 04:09 PM

run hot water on the metal part of the whistle - conduction will melt the glue - or, give a sharp tap using a ring spanner around the body of the whistle and sliding it down sharply to hit the mouthpiece

stu

Subject: RE: Tuning an Irish whistle
From: GUEST,Richard H
Date: 07 Mar 04 - 10:26 AM

Thanks all especially for the link to Chiff and Fipple. The guitarist has decided this year to play his 12-string (need I say more?) which usually goes out of tune after every capoing. With me mainly dabbling in mandolin, guitar and recorder and a bassman thrown in, plus the guitarist's sax friend may drop by to play Danny Boy, tuning to the whistle would be a problem.

So the water's on the fire and it's do or die for the Soodlum.

Subject: RE: Tuning an Irish whistle
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Mar 04 - 09:09 AM

Try the OVERTON WHISTLE site too.

Subject: RE: Tuning an Irish whistle
From: Jeri
Date: 07 Mar 04 - 08:09 AM

Some whistles aren't tuned to equal temperment. Unfortunately, that's what your electronic thingie reads, so the whistle appears to be out of tune with itself. It means it could be a bit iffy playing with fixed pitch instruments, but most people won't really hear the difference.

It's also possible to change the pitch a bit by blowing harder or softer, so it could be 'operator error'.

Some are just rotten whistles, but Feadog and Walton's are supposed to be good ones.

I've tried the hot water dipping thing, and not melted the mouthpiece on average of 1 time out of 4. It may be a personal problem. Go to the Chiff & Fipple site Blackcatter linked to - it has a ton of information, and it's just plain fun to read.

Subject: RE: Tuning an Irish whistle
From: Leadfingers
Date: 07 Mar 04 - 06:03 AM

Holding the mouthpiece under a hot tap is usually enough to break the seal of the adhesive.The mouthpice can then be moved out to flatten the pitch. If its a D whistle tune to the centre notes - the G or the A as this will minimise any inbuilt errors in the finger holes.I dont normally respond at all to anonymous posts but our Guest is correct in that there is often an error in tuning on the lower priced whistles, AND sometimes on the pricier ones too.I wont buy a whistle without trying it out for tuning AND the ability to get into the third register.

Subject: RE: Tuning an Irish whistle
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 07 Mar 04 - 04:42 AM

Blackcatter, You tell me to F-off? You are obviously a humourless idiot. It was a joke, for christsake!
I plays whistles meself so I knows 'ow to tune 'em.
The problem is that most cheap whistles are not in tune with themselves. Like James Galway did with the flute (redesign the hole spacing and diameter), the whistle manufacturers need to recalculate the holes for each key to make each one properly "tempered". If you don't believe me, use a digital tuner to check every note on the whistles you own in all three registers - you'll throw about half of them away!

Subject: RE: Tuning an Irish whistle
From: Blackcatter
Date: 07 Mar 04 - 01:00 AM

F-off guest.

Richard - you can "tune" some whistles. Go to the following website. They have advice on tuning.

Chiff & Fipple

Some mouthpieces can be loosened with a bit of warm water. Their attached with glue so the water can melt it, but be careful - too hot of water may melt the mouthpiece itself. Most whistles are only marginally tuneable, however.

Oftentimes it's easier for the guitar to tune to the whistle.   Good luck and definately check out the above link - it is the best web source for whistles. I don't buy an whistles without checking there first and I have 30 of them.

Subject: RE: Tuning an Irish whistle
From: GUEST,guest
Date: 07 Mar 04 - 12:45 AM

Put it on a grinder and it will get sharp. Hit it with a hammer and it will go flat.

Subject: Tuning an Irish whistle
From: GUEST,Richard H
Date: 06 Mar 04 - 11:42 PM

I was raised on the Clarke tinwhistle and have no experience with plastic mp types. However I've been given two of these (Ds) which I would like to use at a St.Patrick's Day gig.

The Walton's (Soodlum) is sweeter but way sharp on all notes. The Feadog is more in tune but not as clear.

Geraldine Cotter's tutor says of the plastic mp type "the mouthpiece is moveable so you can tune it to other instruments..."

The mouthpieces on the ones I have can't be moved by reasonable force. Should I get unreasonable or does Geraldine's statement apply to better quality instruments?