MUDCAT CD FOUR' Petal to the Metal!

Subject: RE: MUDCAT CD FOUR' Petal to the Metal!
From: Amos
Date: 15 May 02 - 10:37 PM

Friends, folkies, neighbors and ethnic nabobs, punjabs and poobahs, capos and da capos, Queens of Fourfour and Tricky Pickers, bards and bardesses, princes of Barre and Princessi di Zitherii:

It's time to roll it over. This thread is too slow to load for those at less tham .8M/sec throughput. So here's where Section 5 can be found. C'mon over, ya hear?

Catchya on the flipflop!

A

Subject: RE: MUDCAT CD FOUR' Petal to the Metal!
From: michaelr
Date: 15 May 02 - 08:57 PM

Well Amos, I asked Alice that question (about the quality of mp3.com's custom CDs) several times in the earlier thread, but she never answered it.

I agree with Aine that it would be nicer to have our own common creation in hand.

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: MUDCAT CD FOUR' Petal to the Metal!
From: Rollo
Date: 15 May 02 - 07:26 PM

Oh never mind, I am good with sheep. I need aprox. 1 1/2 hours from snatching one to eating the barbecued pieces.

Subject: RE: MUDCAT CD FOUR' Petal to the Metal!
From: Amergin
Date: 15 May 02 - 07:11 PM

but you got to go through some weird initiation first....it is secret...all I can tell you is that it involves a sheep....

Subject: RE: MUDCAT CD FOUR' Petal to the Metal!
From: hesperis
Date: 15 May 02 - 07:07 PM

Yep, Amos is still accepting for the CD, as far as I know. PM him for the addy.

Subject: RE: MUDCAT CD FOUR' Petal to the Metal!
From: Rollo
Date: 15 May 02 - 05:58 PM

At last I have got permission from my band partners to send our stuff... now I don't have the nerve to search the whole thread. Do you still accept? And where do I send the CD to? For my equipment is a little bit outdated, I am not able to transform the waf into mp3 and send it via mail, I have to use the "hardware mail".

Subject: RE: MUDCAT CD FOUR' Petal to the Metal!
From: Amos
Date: 15 May 02 - 05:36 PM

All right, Amergin!! Way to go!

a

Subject: RE: MUDCAT CD FOUR' Petal to the Metal!
From: Amergin
Date: 15 May 02 - 04:13 PM

got three mp3's recorded now...just need to wait til i get home to be able to send them....

Subject: RE: MUDCAT CD FOUR' Petal to the Metal!
From: Amos
Date: 14 May 02 - 08:27 AM

Couldn't agree more, dear Áine . This is a dfifferent service they provide -- they burn and ship CDs on demand. You provide the artwork and the MP3s. They mail the CD.

A.

Subject: RE: MUDCAT CD FOUR' Petal to the Metal!
From: Tweed
Date: 14 May 02 - 07:11 AM

I agree Aine. I won't go to MP3.com site as it seems to be only a huge information gathering site disguised as a place to listen to music. Just my opinion, I'm sure others may use it to great advantage, but I'm inclined to steer clear of anything that will send me junk mail.

Subject: RE: MUDCAT CD FOUR' Petal to the Metal!
From: Áine
Date: 14 May 02 - 02:19 AM

I don't know about everyone else; but, there are 'Catters that can't download MP3's or play them on their computers. Some how, I just don't think that I would get the same 'thrill' from downloading a soundfile as I would holding a CD in my hand containing all the fantastic music from all these talented Mudcatters. Just a thought.

-- Áine

Subject: RE: MUDCAT CD FOUR' Petal to the Metal!
From: Amos
Date: 14 May 02 - 01:31 AM

Thanks, Hes!! Dunno how the logistics would work but we should keep it on the list of possibles. It might work!

One thing about the MP3 service is I haven't found out yet what their service uses or what kind of quality it is -- anyone know?

A

Subject: RE: MUDCAT CD FOUR' Petal to the Metal!
From: hesperis
Date: 14 May 02 - 12:28 AM

Hehehe, you made those up? Nice. *g*

I could offer my site for mudcat music? Have CD-burner, have printer, have site that is shortly going to have a shopping cart... I think mp3.com has a better price than I do - wait, they don't, their prices are in USD. About the same, then.

$5 CDN for the cost, about $3 USD... I can definitely do it for $4 USD... sell it for $10 USD plus shipping? That would be $6-7 USD per CD for the cat. And since Amos is donating the production cost for the first batch, I wouldn't need to charge for cost. I might build a few cents into the shipping charge, that would help me out a lot. I don't have credit card capability yet, though, and won't until I can get a credit card myself (a couple of years yet). What do you guys think?

So, what's the price going to be, anyway?

Subject: RE: MUDCAT CD FOUR' Petal to the Metal!
From: Amos
Date: 13 May 02 - 11:30 PM

OK, folks, getting back to the main thrust and purpose here:

I have browsed the whole Artist side of MP3.com, and it looks very reasonable as an alternative route, although the margins shake out at just under 50%. Nevertheless it might be the way to go depending on several factors which only the Publisher of the Mudcat Cafe can rightfully adjudicate, such as how to approach the Artist name issue, for one thing, and reviewing what the legal obkigations are vis-a-vis MP3.com (they appear perfectly proper, but IANAL.) Depending on what the Publisher thinks, we may investigate it further. The great advantage it has is enabling the operation to go ahead with very low cost of entry and logistics costs.

More as it develops.

in the meanwhile please note:

May, sweet May, so passing fair
Brings kindly in her summ'ry air
How soft, alluring in her hours,
That lost we well may be in flowers
And ne'er hear the mournful tune
That sings, "Fair May is passing soon!"

(Wendell Robertson Halstead, 1913)

Time slips past the idle man; but the virtuous man leaves time behind him (Sung Ki Chan, 693 A.D.)

(I just made these guys up but I guess the pointis clear. Sing it out, wrap it up and send it in!!!!)

A

Subject: RE: MUDCAT CD FOUR' Petal to the Metal!
From: Amos
Date: 13 May 02 - 07:26 PM

Well, Hes, I am better than the average bear at it, and fancied myself a SNAG of sorts, and all that; it's just the old hubris equation -- Ye Pryde and Ye Falle, ya know -- just ask old Beezlebub: the gods know how to teach ya lessons just when you forget to pay attention!

But maybe I can learn fluid dynamics and work up from there, huh?

A

Subject: RE: MUDCAT CD FOUR' Petal to the Metal!
From: hesperis
Date: 12 May 02 - 09:12 PM

Be careful what you wish for, Amos - wish for understanding women and you probably WILL be a woman in the next life... and then you'll wish you understood men... and then...

Unless you're good at remembering past lives!

(Of course, men are rather easier to understand, most of the time. Hee hee!)

Subject: RE: MUDCAT CD FOUR' Petal to the Metal!
From: Amos
Date: 12 May 02 - 06:44 PM

CS:

That's kinda what I thought; it is sad, but I will have to settle for understanding fluid dynamics. Sigh. Rogugh work, but someone has to do it!! And at least it is on this side of the impossible!!! :>))

A

Subject: RE: MUDCAT CD FOUR' Petal to the Metal!
From: Sorcha
Date: 12 May 02 - 06:19 PM

Let's not get the cover too busy--they are distracting if too busy.

Subject: RE: MUDCAT CD FOUR' Petal to the Metal!
From: Celtic Soul
Date: 12 May 02 - 06:19 PM

Amos, thanks to you yet again for your time and information! My band use this site more times than we can count, and we are *very* much interested in supporting it. I again applaud you on your efforts. If sending a few previously recorded songs can help this place out, that is the *very* least we can do. Of course, we'll all be buying the final product as well.

I think the "understanding women" thing will need a a bit more though, karmically speaking...perhaps a few minor miracles, or your saving the lives of a busload of kids at the expense of your own. ;D

Subject: RE: MUDCAT CD FOUR' Petal to the Metal!
From: treewind
Date: 12 May 02 - 06:09 PM

Go for pressings!

The only justification for CDRs is small production runs: with pressing the setup cost is high but the cost per pressing is low. I would guess that the break even point is a few hundred and I would think it would be easy to shift 500 or 1000 of the discs.

my 0.02 Euro's worth...

Anahata

Subject: RE: MUDCAT CD FOUR' Petal to the Metal!
From: Amergin
Date: 12 May 02 - 01:38 PM

will be submitting mine in the next day or two....had to get a new mic

Subject: RE: MUDCAT CD FOUR' Petal to the Metal!
From: Amos
Date: 12 May 02 - 12:53 PM

Yeeha!! Thanks, MM!

I talked to Max, who is very supportive. We have a couple of ways to go on the logistics, depending on some numbers I have to get. I'll let you know what I find out. If we produce our own inventory it will be distributed via Dick Greenhaus, Max suggests, since he has the means in place already. The other alternative is a CD-on-demand service such as MP3.com's. Alice talked about this a bit earlier. Either way, we have the goal in sight.

Keep strumming, singing and (if you haven't already) shipping!!

A

Subject: RE: MUDCAT CD FOUR' Petal to the Metal!
From: MMario
Date: 12 May 02 - 12:27 PM

Amos - the tape is in the mail.

Subject: RE: MUDCAT CD FOUR' Petal to the Metal!
From: Amos
Date: 12 May 02 - 09:24 AM

DaveO -- three Great cuts, well received. Salt o' the earth indeed!! :>) Thanks!

A

Subject: RE: MUDCAT CD FOUR' Petal to the Metal!
From: Cappuccino
Date: 12 May 02 - 03:57 AM

Lord, your prices for burning CDs are a sight cheaper than in Britain - which is why I've just spent four hundred pounds I can't afford on a machine to do it myself!

But please check the facilities of your suppliers. Here in the UK, specialist magazines like Sound on Sound have vast lists of adverts for CD repro houses... and, on inspection, you find that some really are just putting them through their PCs.

- Ian B

Subject: RE: MUDCAT CD FOUR' Petal to the Metal!
From: michaelr
Date: 11 May 02 - 08:00 PM

Yes, the logo should definitely be in there somewhere. I PM'd Max, and he provided the URL for me to download it. I'll play with it in Photoshop.

Michael

Subject: RE: MUDCAT CD FOUR' Petal to the Metal!
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 11 May 02 - 07:46 PM

That's good, amergin. I can see the catfish with greek sailor hats, sunglasses, beards, etc.

Subject: RE: MUDCAT CD FOUR' Petal to the Metal!
From: Amergin
Date: 11 May 02 - 07:43 PM

how about some catfish sitting around in a circle, playing various instruments?

Subject: RE: MUDCAT CD FOUR' Petal to the Metal!
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 11 May 02 - 07:37 PM

Sure, michael. Just seeking some clarification on what you have in mind. Any thought of using the Mudcat Catfish/Banjo Logo on the CD or elsewhere? I think Max would approve.

Subject: RE: MUDCAT CD FOUR' Petal to the Metal!
From: michaelr
Date: 11 May 02 - 07:25 PM

Barbara, the CD thread was a recent one, just a few days ago, but my Forum search did not bring up anything newer than 2001. Maybe someone else can link to it?

Hesperis has the gist of it right, though. Home-burned CDs aren't expected to last longer than 3 or 4 years before they become unplayable.

One ad I looked at was from www.LonelyRecords.com, another from www.bmmi.com, and another from www.eastcopro.com (sorry, no blicky skills today).

LEJ, I think homeless's cover is great; the back one doesn't do much for me. The way I see it, there's room for up to 6 different designs: insert outside front (cover)/back, insert inside left/right, traycard outside (back cover), and the disc itself. Why not maximize the creative potential we have here at the `Cat?

Michael

Subject: RE: MUDCAT CD FOUR' Petal to the Metal!
From: hesperis
Date: 11 May 02 - 06:45 PM

The life expectancy of home-burned is definitely less than glass-mastered, and some home-burned CDs cannot be played in older car stereos.

Home-burned CDs are much more sensitive to heat and scratching than pressed CDs, unless you play frisbee with your dog and a couple of CDs on a hot summer afternoon. Then they're about equal. ;)

Subject: RE: MUDCAT CD FOUR' Petal to the Metal!
From: katlaughing
Date: 11 May 02 - 05:33 PM

Am just sending mp3s of Uncle DaveO's three songs.

I don't think we need to go to a bunch of expense for full-colour inserts on all sides, the cover as Homeless has presented it is fine. Also, we don't need shrink warp, do we? Let's keep the cost down as much as possible.

I'd be happy to help with assembly and mailing out, as long as it's postage paid. Why don't we have several of us as distribution points as we've kind of done with the t-shirts, with one or two people in the UK handling sales, etc. and one or two of us for each region elsewhere?

Subject: RE: MUDCAT CD FOUR' Petal to the Metal!
From: Barbara Shaw
Date: 11 May 02 - 04:52 PM

michaelr, what thread said "the life expectancy of CDs BURNED with home-computer CD writers is greatly less than that of commercially PRESSED CDs"? I've been burning my own and haven't found that to be true (yet) but I'd like to read the thread that discussed this. Also, places I've found to commercially produce CDs ran about $3 per CD, so I'm interested to know what companies you found with the rates quoted above. I'd REALLY like to get out of the CD burning business!

Amos, keep up the good work! Looking forward to hearing this Mudcat CD.

Subject: RE: MUDCAT CD FOUR' Petal to the Metal!
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 11 May 02 - 04:44 PM

michael, what do you think of homeless' art? And how much more do you need?

Subject: RE: MUDCAT CD FOUR' Petal to the Metal!
From: michaelr
Date: 11 May 02 - 04:26 PM

CD packages I see advertised in magazines run around $600 for 300, to $1,000 for 1000. This typically includes glass mastering (which is preferred, quality-wise), full-color 4-page inserts, 2 to 3 color screenprinting on the discs, jewel case assembly and shrinkwrap.

We could save substantial bucks by ordering bulk CDs and handling the assembly ourselves. I'm looking at an ad for 1,000 bulk CDs (glass master, 1-color screenprint) for $560.

Amos, how many were you thinking of for the initial run? The cost goes down as quantity goes up.

Michael

Subject: RE: MUDCAT CD FOUR' Petal to the Metal!
From: Amergin
Date: 11 May 02 - 04:02 PM

how much does it run to get them professionally pressed?

Subject: RE: MUDCAT CD FOUR' Petal to the Metal!
From: Amos
Date: 11 May 02 - 04:01 PM

Well, I wasn't gonna home-burn the production run -- I was going to research production sites here in town and see how big a batch I could manage of the pressed master, pressed product variety.

All suggestions from those with more expertise than I have in this arena are welcome.

Meanwhile, keep them songs flying!! They're where the rubber meets the road, folkies. And you're doing great!

A

Subject: RE: MUDCAT CD FOUR' Petal to the Metal!
From: michaelr
Date: 11 May 02 - 03:52 PM

Amos - in a recent thread it was made clear that the life expectancy of CDs BURNED with home-computer CD writers is greatly less than that of commercially PRESSED CDs. I think we need to consider our options here - do we burn `em on the cheap and risk them becoming unusable soon, or do we fork over more cash and get them pressed by a commercial duplication firm?

Personally, I think the latter option is the better one. Maybe, once you've finalized the master, we could start a donation drive to get the first 200 (or 300, or 500) made.

And Here's another call for artwork! I know that many `Catters are visual artists in addition to being musicians, but graphics contributions to the CD project are lagging way behind the music entries. I say again, PM me if you have artwork to contribute; I'll be coordinating the graphics package, as Amos is doing with the music.

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: MUDCAT CD FOUR' Petal to the Metal!
From: Amos
Date: 11 May 02 - 03:28 PM

Thanks, Peter, I appreciate the sentiment.

I am not spending money because I feel obliged in any way, but because I choose so to do to forward the intention of getting the CD out. I have personally gotten untold benefits from the Mudcat, friendships and conversations, and adventures beyond putting a price on, so to do what I can afford is a simple and inadequate contribution toward balancing that exchange! :>)

And I have yet to tack down some hard numbers to see what I can afford!

A.

Subject: RE: MUDCAT CD FOUR' Petal to the Metal!
From: wysiwyg
Date: 11 May 02 - 03:23 PM

Oh, he's just donating his time and the materials, don't worry-- I'm sure he thought it through and will not over-extend. Just like some of us pay for overnight shipping on Mudcat auction items-- it's our way of participating in the effort.

Think of them as in-kind donations.

~S~

Subject: RE: MUDCAT CD FOUR' Petal to the Metal!
From: Midchuck
Date: 11 May 02 - 03:16 PM

That's not right.

You ought to get your out-of-pocket costs back.

I'd be as upset as anyone if there were a profit and the Mudcat didn't get it, but you shouldn't be expected to put your own money into production and burning CDs and stuff, and not get it back. Time, yes; money, no.

IMO

Peter.

Subject: RE: MUDCAT CD FOUR' Petal to the Metal!
From: Amos
Date: 11 May 02 - 01:51 PM

CS:

Hey, they better!! I'm not volunteering all these hours to benefit anyone else!!

The Mudcat as I understand it is a not-for-profit and non-profitable organization, in support of which manythousands of personal hours and thousands of dollars have been expended by a handful of greathearted luminaries -- Dick Greenhaus, Susan, Max, Bert, Pene Azul, katlaughing, Joe Offer, and perhaps half-a-dozen more I am too stupid to remember.

It is my intention to arrange logistics such that sales of the final product are directly channeled to the Mudcat. I have beentrying to get in touch with Max to sort those factors out (see calendar at top of this thread). I intend to pay for as many production copies as I can afford and hand them over to someone for sales and shipping. I don't intend tohandle or even see the proceeds. I intend to hand over the master CD and artwork with the production copies so that the Mudcat can continue to replicate and deliver more copies than i can pay for.

That's as far as my thinking goes on it.

I do make one hidden benefit from all this, which I haven't mentioned, just to put all the cards on the table -- I get to hear a truckload of beautiful music from great souls all over the planet, which I get a real thrill over.

(And I get all kinds of brownie points, too. Which are redeemable for a better start next lifetime at understanding fluid dynamics and the minds of women, whichever is easier. Hard call. Kinda like free Frequent Flyer miles for karma...) :>)

Subject: RE: MUDCAT CD FOUR' Petal to the Metal!
From: Celtic Soul
Date: 11 May 02 - 01:13 PM

Wow! I *love* the artwork! Well done! How do I get me one of these amazing CD's??? ;D

Oh, and thanks, Amos, for all the hard work you're putting into this. You will have an offering for the CD too, yes?

And now for the really dumb question. I admit that I have not read all the 400 posts on this subject, nor do I have the time (I apologize in advance). That said, the proceeds *do* benefit the 'Cat, correct?

Thanks one and all for the daily mirth and fount of information that is this place.

Subject: RE: MUDCAT CD FOUR' Petal to the Metal!
From: Genie
Date: 11 May 02 - 12:30 PM

Amos, your little "Petal" typo reminds me of a similar one in another thread a while back. Someone, a cyclist, it seems, said something about "peddling my ass off." Definitely not a bicycling image there!

Genie §;- )

Subject: RE: MUDCAT CD FOUR' Petal to the Metal!
From: Amos
Date: 11 May 02 - 12:04 PM

Wow!! That Seamus has a voice and a half, huh?

Ol' Moohman, Celtic Soul., and Norton1 -- thanks for your great stuff!

I am still open to those MP3's, CDs or tapes, folks!! A piece of beauty from the heart, every one. Don't delay, don't defer, don't dodge it or fudge it or tapdance away, evade, postpone, put off or procrastinate. Step up there and sing it, and ship it!!

I just LOVE you guys -- really!!

Homeless I love the art work. PM me and enail address and when I have the text I'll send you the contents list.

Now what's all this about muffins, then?

Keep 'em coming, guys!!

You're purely terrific!!

A

Subject: RE: MUDCAT CD FOUR' Petal to the Metal!
From: Amos
Date: 07 May 02 - 04:48 PM

Thanks Sooz! Looking good, Homeless!! Mor elater...

A

Subject: RE: MUDCAT CD FOUR' Petal to the Metal!
From: wysiwyg
Date: 07 May 02 - 02:13 PM

It was hard to do, because the voice alone is so BIG, but I crammed Seamus Kennedy into a little mailer bag today and sent him to the post office. He didn't even let out a peep!

~S~

Subject: RE: MUDCAT CD FOUR' Petal to the Metal!
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 07 May 02 - 12:26 PM

homeless' art. Click the "update" and "back cover" hot keys

Subject: RE: MUDCAT CD FOUR' Petal to the Metal!
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 07 May 02 - 11:54 AM

Have you checked out Homeless' art for the CD recently? It is really coming along nicely. Whether or not the "BLue Blate Special" title is used, I hope we find a way to use his artwork. The "Daily Specials" songtitles are a hoot, too. And check out Homeless' Cyber-Martin.

Subject: RE: MUDCAT CD FOUR' Petal to the Metal!
From: Amos
Date: 06 May 02 - 11:17 PM

Hey, hey, lookie here!! Barbara Shaw! Woodchuck's Revenge!! Wow!! And a Pirate Lass named Celtic Soul!! Dang, I'm wich, I'm wich!!

Seriously, folkies, I am speechless at the pleasure I am getting out of all these items sent in for the CD, and I can't thank you enough.

Now if ya haven't done it yet -- PLEASE trot them shakers, or whatever, and get the tape cut or the CD burned or the MP 3 files mailed or whatever. If you need any information about it, just write me and I'll help if I can.

The merry Month of May is moving down the line, guys....let's make it happen!!

Thanks again!!

A

A strawberry blonde, a strawberry roan
And they're both in love with you!!

Wranglin' Dudes,
Woodchuck;'s Revenge

Great line, great song!!

A