BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN (NO new Trmp threads) 2
From: Helen
Date: 23 Jun 23 - 11:31 PM

Donuel, if you gathered all of Trump's comments into one long document, what percentage of them all would be self-contradictory?

He also said, "no one is above the law" in one of his presidential campaign speeches when referring to people illegally keeping confidential documents.

His opinions depend on which way the wind is blowing. Unfortunately the wind appears to be constantly circling around Trump like a perpetual tornado. LOL

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN (NO new Trmp threads) 2
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Jun 23 - 07:25 PM

Tricky Dick said "if a President does it, it's legal".

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN (NO new Trmp threads) 2
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 22 Jun 23 - 06:51 AM

> Trump just can't help himself.

He's succumbing to what we call "the lure of the open mouth" in our family (I'm usually the chief offender). At least Richard Nixon didn't make a business suit look sleazy just be being inside it.

<trumpvoice>Yum .... shoe leather ....</trumpvoice>

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN (NO new Trmp threads) 2
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Jun 23 - 06:23 AM

I think Trump was expecting the usual soft ball interview on Fox and was shocked by Brett Baer's ruthless dissection of the elderly adolescent.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN (NO new Trmp threads) 2
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Jun 23 - 06:22 PM

Trump just can't help himself. He apparently did another interview on FAUX News that pundits on other networks say is just like a confession. Another confession. Jack Smith is facing an embarrassment of riches, to decide which public statement by Trump to use against him.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN (NO new Trmp threads) 2
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Jun 23 - 04:56 PM

Julia Louis Dreyfus from Veep and Seinfeld would be good for the movie version of 'Judged'.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN (NO new Trmp threads) 2
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Jun 23 - 04:26 PM

She will put her two weeks of trial experience to the test.
I hope she delays her rulings for overnight homework.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN (NO new Trmp threads) 2
From: Helen
Date: 20 Jun 23 - 02:39 PM

It is an unenviable position for the Trump-appointed judge. I suspect she will be having sleepless nights about it, wavering between whether to pander to Trump or be true to her strict legal professional standards while under immense media and political scrutiny.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN (NO new Trmp threads) 2
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Jun 23 - 12:50 PM

In the New York Times today the notice about the trial date was accompanied by information that in the only other trials (four) she has run she has generally set quick dates but they were pushed back. Conjecture is that she fears criticism for not knowing what she's doing (a rational fear, since she doesn't seem to have much of a clue. Most reporters covering the case have more time in court listening to hearings than she has in all of her experience of the law.)

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN (NO new Trmp threads) 2
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Jun 23 - 09:26 AM

THE TRIAL STARTS AUGUST 14 2023

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN (NO new Trmp threads) 2
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Jun 23 - 09:01 AM

Even the most ardent Trump supporter sees their fearless leader covered in crumbs insisting that he did steal all the cookies but he didn't eat any. This won't change their minds entirely but it will temper their fervency.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN (NO new Trmp threads) 2
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Jun 23 - 08:48 AM

Put a pin in this: When all is said and done and Trump is found guilty he will be given one last choice to serve prison time or agree to not hold any office again. I know Trump to be a coward. He will not choose prison. He could get pardoned by a Republican for other changes but I don't see people voting for a Trump pardon above all else.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN (NO new Trmp threads) 2
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Jun 23 - 08:15 AM

One of the main traits of a psychopath is that they pretend to care while sociopaths make it obvious that they don't. I know what my money is on. Not that it matters as long as you rid yourself of him.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN (NO new Trmp threads) 2
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Jun 23 - 06:45 AM

The reason I do not use the term Sociopath for Trump is because a sociopath may still feel remorse guilt and empathy. Pxychopath is a better fit and is evident in one in five people to varying degrees.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN (NO new Trmp threads) 2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Jun 23 - 04:20 AM

Analyse is good as it leaves room to declare your interests. Diagnose makes you sound dispassionate and objective, which, considering her very sour relationship with Trump, would be very difficult to achieve, especially with regard to a psychological assessment. And that's on top of the linguistically questionable use of the term diagnosis. And I'll take quibble any day, so thanks for that.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN (NO new Trmp threads) 2
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Jun 23 - 01:27 AM

Not that Yahoo news is particularly intrepid or durable, but it is probably readable in many places.

Donald Trump, who claimed to only hire the best people, was thoroughly asked why so many key players of his administration do not want him to be president again.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN (NO new Trmp threads) 2
From: Ebbie
Date: 20 Jun 23 - 01:02 AM

'Diagnose', to me, is a medical or at least, a clinical term. I don't know that 'analyse' is a less rigorous term but it is something we all do every day. So I'd go with analyse. On the other hand, I would guess that Mary Trump has the ability to diagnose....

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN (NO new Trmp threads) 2
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Jun 23 - 12:14 AM

Steve, you keep picking at subjects that everyone else is ready to move on from, and dismiss our opinions with your arguments, letting the perfect be the enemy of the good. This topic is about Trump.

MaJoC, I considered using "quibbling," but it so often gets worse quickly, so just went for the next step.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN (NO new Trmp threads) 2
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 19 Jun 23 - 10:23 PM

I would have said "quibbling"; "squabbling" is what this exchange is. Less heat and more light in this discussion, *please*, folks. Would it help were I to withdraw the Goldwater Rule suggestion? which seems to have poured oil on troubled flames.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN (NO new Trmp threads) 2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Jun 23 - 08:31 PM

Squabbling? Because you don't accept that we need to be strict about what "diagnosis" means? I think that you guys want to play rather fast and loose with the use of that word. I repeat. I do not disagree with her analysis. But her version is in no way a diagnosis in the strictly medical context. She dislikes him severely and yes, she knows him well. But she has massive non-medical issues with him. She is vulnerable to accusations of bias. You hate Trump, as do I, and you read a piece that confirms your already-cast in stone vilification of him. Fine, but that does reek of confirmation bias. Thing is, Maggie, that accusing someone who's trying, ok, to nitpick but on potentially justifiable terms, of "squabbling," is a rather dismal fallback. I think you know better.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN (NO new Trmp threads) 2
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Jun 23 - 07:52 PM

Enough squabbling, Steve. She's trained in her field and is as close to having a diagnosis of Trump as anyone, but go do a search on the report filed by various medical health people during his administration. They were worried about his behavior.

Today Trump was ordered to not share "discovery"

Judge bars Trump from disclosing — or keeping — evidence in documents case
Magistrate Judge Bruce Reinhart held that evidence Trump's team is set to receive from the government shall not be "disseminated on any news or social media platform."

A federal judge issued a protective order Monday barring former President Donald Trump from disclosing on social media — or keeping — evidence set to be turned over to him by the government in the classified documents case.

The order against Trump and Walt Nauta, his co-defendant in the criminal case alleging he mishandled national security information, prohibits them from sharing evidence federal investigators are set to begin turning over to their lawyers as part of the discovery process in the case.

"The Discovery Materials, along with any information derived therefrom, shall not be disclosed to the public or the news media, or disseminated on any news or social media platform, without prior notice to and consent of the United States or approval of the Court,” Magistrate Judge Bruce Reinhart said in the order.

It bars them from disclosing information about the government's evidence to people not directly involved in the case without explicit permission from a judge, and warns they could face criminal contempt charges if they violate the order.

It also puts limits on Trump's access to the material.

"Defendants shall only have access to Discovery Materials under the direct supervision of Defense Counsel or a member of Defense Counsel’s staff. Defendants shall not retain copies of Discovery Material," the ruling said.

The ruling largely tracks with a request for a protective order the government filed in the case on Friday. The government said in that filing that Trump and Nauta's lawyers had "no objections to this motion or the protective order."

Trump attorney Todd Blanche declined comment on the order.

The information prosecutors sought to guard includes "sensitive and confidential information," including "information that reveals sensitive but unclassified investigative techniques; non-public information relating to potential witnesses and other third parties (including grand jury transcripts and exhibits and recordings of witness interviews); financial information of third parties; third-party location information; and personal information contained on electronic devices and accounts."

"The materials also include information pertaining to ongoing investigations, the disclosure of which could compromise those investigations and identify uncharged individuals,” their Friday filing said.

The rest of the article summarizes his criminal charges.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN (NO new Trmp threads) 2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Jun 23 - 04:04 PM

Hmm. A doctor makes a diagnosis after formal consultations with the patient and/or after looking at the results of medical tests. I'm not arguing either with you or her. But I am quibbling at the loose use of "diagnosis." Especially so with regard to the notoriously inexact science of psychoanalysis. And she's a close relative who hates him, with good reason, it seems. Doesn't help.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN (NO new Trmp threads) 2
From: Helen
Date: 19 Jun 23 - 03:54 PM

From the article SRS mentioned:

"Too Much and Never Enough: How My Family Created the World’s Most Dangerous Man presents itself as the first genuine psychological portrait of Trump by a person who knows him well. It is written by the president’s niece, Mary L. Trump, who not only has the firsthand experience with the president and his family that his would-be shrinks lack, but is also herself a clinical psychologist by training."

Mary Trump is a qualified clinical psychologist therefore she is capable and qualified to provide a psychological diagnosis.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN (NO new Trmp threads) 2
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Jun 23 - 03:50 PM

A lot of this is subjective, but she has the insight from knowing her uncle and from interviews with family members. She's trained in the field.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN (NO new Trmp threads) 2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Jun 23 - 02:29 PM

Well, I believe every word she says, but the term "diagnosis" has a fairly strict meaning within medical circles. And I'm not quite sure that this is the right context for that word. Tell me I'm wrong, but I suspect that there was no formal medical investigation carried out by her before she reached this, er, diagnosis. She was certainly more upclose and personal with him than you'd find in the average doctor-patient relationship and she had a dog or two in the fight to boot. Aside from that, I have no reason to doubt her conclusion.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN (NO new Trmp threads) 2
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Jun 23 - 12:24 PM

Mary Trump diagnoses the president from 2020. Here's a little bit of the article:

And Mary is not shy about diagnosing her uncle. Too Much and Never Enough is full of explanations for Trump’s behavior: abandonment issues, narcissism (a common theme in these psychological explorations), stunted emotional growth, caffeine dependence. All of these have combined to form a 74-year-old toddler who just happens to be the most powerful person on the planet.

Of course, we don’t need an expert to tell us that Donald Trump is a badly damaged individual. So it helps that Too Much and Never Enough also functions as a story of revenge, not just on the president but on his entire family.

Based on conversations with Trump’s siblings, Mary reveals that the president’s early life was defined by neglect and psychological abuse. The kids were raised by an absent and often ill mother and a megalomaniacal, cruel father. Although the Trump children each suffered in unique ways, they had many afflictions in common: insecurity, difficulty in relating to others, an all-consuming fixation on money, which is confused with worth.

The women of the house—the matriarch Mary Trump and her daughters, Maryanne and Elizabeth—were confined to gender roles that were rigid even for the 1950s. The three boys—Fred Jr., Donald, and Robert—had to fend for themselves in an environment not unlike The Lord of the Flies. Enamored with the prosperity gospel, Fred Trump Sr. drilled a ruthless code into his sons: Do whatever it takes to get ahead. Emotion of any kind was weakness. Lying, cheating, stealing—all encouraged.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN (NO new Trmp threads) 2
From: gillymor
Date: 19 Jun 23 - 12:14 PM

Your point is taken, Major, but I doubt there are any professionals here that need to adhere to the Goldwater rule. This, after all, is the B.S. section and there's a whole lot or BSing going on.
Wasn't BG's campaign slogan, "In your heart you know he's right" and the retort was "In your guts you know he's nuts."

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN (NO new Trmp threads) 2
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 19 Jun 23 - 11:39 AM

Fading memory suggests that the term "psychopath" got hurled around with such gleeful inaccuracy by those outside the psychology trade (presumably after the release of Hitchcock's Psycho*) that it got dropped as an official diagnosis. Terms such as "narcissism" (in full, "malignant narcissism") may be going down the same drain.

I suggest we all apply the Goldwater Rule, lest we dilute trade terms into uselessness.

* I may wish to rephrase that.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN (NO new Trmp threads) 2
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Jun 23 - 10:48 AM

I'm not sure about psychopath being used either. Sociopath seems more likely.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN (NO new Trmp threads) 2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Jun 23 - 10:17 AM

As far as I'm aware, we have no evidence that Trump stands in front of a mirror admiring himself or leafing languidly through photos of himself. The constant use of "narcissist" to define him (and to chuck veiled insults at other people) is both childish and tiresome. I sometimes think that the user of this overused word doesn't really know what it means.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN (NO new Trmp threads) 2
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Jun 23 - 10:00 AM

My therapist says I'm a delusional narcissist who uses dismissive indignation as a coping mechanism
That was really hard to hear from a stupid jealous piece of shit.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN (NO new Trmp threads) 2
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Jun 23 - 09:57 AM

In the same stadium where Hiter presided over the most hateful and contemptuous regime, the Special Olympics is now underway showing the courage and inclusiveness of social change. Change is possible if not inevitable.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN (NO new Trmp threads) 2
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Jun 23 - 08:09 AM

Being pathologically defensive is a trait of narcissism.
I do not know where narcissists are on an evolutionary ladder or how their traits may be an advantage to survival of the species under various circumstances. They are a danger in a nuclear weapon civilization.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN (NO new Trmp threads) 2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Jun 23 - 07:47 AM

"Clearly, followers who fall for the narcissist are not highly evolved"

Not helpful. Misguided, lacking in political education or both would be better. Referring to human beings as being lower on the evolutionary ladder smacks of a form of racism.

Incidentally, in discussing Trump I think we should call him Trump, not the Orange One, the narcissist, Agent Orange, etc. We can't be dispassionate or particularly objective when we insist on using these loaded terms. It's a free country, of course.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN (NO new Trmp threads) 2
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Jun 23 - 07:35 AM

Do I detect an attempt at charm?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN (NO new Trmp threads) 2
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Jun 23 - 07:25 AM

Clearly, followers who fall for the narcissist are not highly evolved or find a personal advantage for themselves.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN (NO new Trmp threads) 2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Jun 23 - 07:24 AM

Yes, come along now, ladies and gents. Helen and I want y'all to be civilised. Though it could be argued that it isn't easy when discussing one of the most uncivilised people on the world stage...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN (NO new Trmp threads) 2
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Jun 23 - 06:58 AM

Like Trump, a narcissist will aggrandize their own name.
They do not like to be called out for who they actually are.
They can not control their revenge.

Among the Narcissist Checklist, here are some defining traits that usually indicate you are dealing with a narcissist:
Being self-enamored, self-absorbed
A strong need for control
Demonstrating low levels of empathy
An attitude of entitlement
Chronically mismanaged anger
Manipulative or exploitive behavior
Feeling superiority over others
Living in an alternate reality
Being pathologically defensive.

https://survivingnarcissism.tv/the-narcissist-checklist/

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN (NO new Trmp threads) 2
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 Jun 23 - 06:45 AM

‘Cleverly charming’? Trump?? A cold, day-old dog-turd has more intelligence and charm than Trump.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN (NO new Trmp threads) 2
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Jun 23 - 06:39 AM

Chris Christi calls Trump a 9 year old petulant child. John Meechum calls him a highjacker cheered by the highjacked. Psychologists call him a narcissistic psychopath. HIS FORMER ADVISORS call him dangerous.
The military says he can/t be trusted. I say psychopaths are glib, cleverly charming for self-importance and dangerous to varying degrees.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN (NO new Trmp threads) 2
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Jun 23 - 06:09 AM

nerd-turd, Khan-con, etc. We know some folks are not a fan of anything. There's more talk about pardons that conviction among Republicans.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN (NO new Trmp threads) 2
From: Helen
Date: 19 Jun 23 - 05:11 AM

Can we stick to the topic and be civilised, please.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN (NO new Trmp threads) 2
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 19 Jun 23 - 04:54 AM

One of my trade euphemisms is "fsck": it's the name of the file-system checker in UNIX Classic, but is often seen as a term of frustration (if you have to invoke the program at the command line, you are by definition already having a Bad Day). One of the most hilarious exchanges on a certain technical talker involved one of the regulars logging on and fulminating at length about the "fsckwits" in management, whose wetware was clearly suffering bit rot.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN (NO new Trmp threads) 2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Jun 23 - 04:23 AM

I'm never a c-er and f-er in my posts (unlike in real life) but I'm not a fan of pusillanimous euphemisms, still less of that silly use of asterisks, as in f*** off. I enjoy taking the p*iss out of the daft b*ugg*ers who do that by leaving all the letters in whilst sticking in the asterisks anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN (NO new Trmp threads) 2
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 Jun 23 - 02:20 AM

Language Timothy! ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN (NO new Trmp threads) 2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Jun 23 - 07:01 PM

Con means cunt. Ignore the euphemisers.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN (NO new Trmp threads) 2
From: Monique
Date: 18 Jun 23 - 05:06 PM

Dave, when I saw it I read it as an English/French mix that would translate in French as "La colère des cons" and in English as "The wrath of the idiots/plonkers/assholes" (you get the meaning...). But Donuel will give us the proper meaning!

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN (NO new Trmp threads) 2
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Jun 23 - 04:49 PM

The wrath of con?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN (NO new Trmp threads) 2
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Jun 23 - 12:56 PM

The disabled genius has promised a mass retribution against the indicters. The revenge of the turd will make the wrath of Con look like Snow White.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN (NO new Trmp threads) 2
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 17 Jun 23 - 11:09 AM

Agent Orange is more like their useful idiot, SRS. I've no idea whether Messrs Dunning and Kruger have weighed in on that Stable Genius^TM yet.