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Abschied (Muß i denn)

DigiTrad:
A MIGHTY FORTRESS IS OUR GOD
BRAHMS' LULLABY
BUMM! BUMM!! BUMM!!!
CORPORAL SCHNAPPS
DIE GEDANKEN SIND FREI
DIE GUTE KAMERAD
DIE LAPPEN HOCH
DIE MOORSOLDATEN
EDELWEISS
GORCH FOCK LIED
HANS BEIMLER
HEISE, ALL
LILI MARLEEN
MARIA DURCH EIN DORNWALD GING
ODE TO JOY (GERMAN)
YAW, YAW, YAW


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Teru 08 Jun 97 - 07:48 PM
Alan of Australia 09 Jun 97 - 05:10 AM
Ralph Butts 09 Jun 97 - 12:29 PM
Joe Offer 09 Jun 97 - 03:20 PM
Teru 09 Jun 97 - 08:07 PM
F. Schulte-Noelle 10 Jun 97 - 02:55 AM
Joe Offer 10 Jun 97 - 02:55 PM
Friedhelm Schulte-Noelle 11 Jun 97 - 03:47 AM
Alan of Oz 11 Jun 97 - 12:24 PM
Joe Offer 12 Jun 97 - 03:04 AM
CRANKY YANKEE 23 May 01 - 12:00 AM
katlaughing 23 May 01 - 12:10 AM
GUEST,ernest c 23 May 01 - 01:00 AM
CRANKY YANKEE 24 May 01 - 04:57 AM
Allan C. 24 May 01 - 07:43 AM
Genie 30 Dec 09 - 02:35 PM
Mr Happy 05 Sep 10 - 08:53 AM
keberoxu 28 May 18 - 01:29 PM
Joe Offer 28 May 18 - 01:45 PM
GUEST,keberoxu 28 May 18 - 02:41 PM
Marje 29 May 18 - 01:01 PM
keberoxu 29 May 18 - 01:12 PM
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Subject: Lyr Add: ABSCHIED (Muß i denn)
From: Teru
Date: 08 Jun 97 - 07:48 PM

There are several songs called "Abschied.” Here, one of these.

ABSCHIED (Muß i denn)

Muß i denn, muß i denn zum Städtele naus,
Städtele naus und du mein Schatz, bleibst hier?
Wenn i komm, wenn i komm, wenn i wiedrum komm,
wiedrum komm, kehr i ein, mein Schatz, bei dir.
Kann i gleich net allweil bei dir sein, han i doch mein Freud' an dir.
Wenn i komm, wenn i komm, wenn i wiedrum komm,
wiedrum komm, kehr i ein, mein Schatz, bei dir.

Wie du weindst, wie du weinst, daß i wandere muß,
Wandere muß, wie wenn d'Lieb jutzt wär vorbei!
Sind au drauß, sind au drauß der Mädele viel,
Mädele viel, lieber Schatz, i bleib dir treu.
Denk du net, wenn i a andre seh, so sei mei Lieb vorbei;
Sind au drauß, sind aud drauß der Mädele viel,
Mädele viel, lieber Schatz, i bleib dir treu.

I hope your computer can read German Umlaut and Eszett.
With regards,
Teru


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Subject: RE: Abschied (Muß i denn)
From: Alan of Australia
Date: 09 Jun 97 - 05:10 AM

"Muß i denn" (in case you don't recognise it) is the song whose tune was "stolen" for Elvis' "Wooden Heart".

Cheers,

Alan


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Subject: RE: Abschied (Muß i denn)
From: Ralph Butts
Date: 09 Jun 97 - 12:29 PM

Teru........A couple of minor corrections to the first two lines. Note, it's not a question (Must I?), rather, "I must."
"Gotta go to the city now, wait here, Honey." (liberally)......Tiger

Muß i denn, muß i denn zum Städtle hinaus,

Städtle hinaus, und du mein Schatz, bleibst hier!


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Subject: RE: Abschied (Muß i denn)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 09 Jun 97 - 03:20 PM

Here's where you can hear the tune to this and many other German folk songs:

http://www.ingeb.org/

Say, does anybody want to attempt a translation of the lyrics? I get the general idea, but I always have trouble with those regional dialects. I wouldn't exactly call this "Plattdeutsch," but it certainly isn't the "Hochdeutsch" I learned.

-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Abschied (Muß i denn)
From: Teru
Date: 09 Jun 97 - 08:07 PM

Tiger:

I agree with you. As far as I know, " 'naus" (not "naus" exactly) is a slang for hinaus. Städtle (not Städtele) may be right.

Thank you.

Teru

Joe:

It's difficult or even impossible to "translate" foreign lyrics exaclty. It will be better to "understand" them with the help of the dictionary and/or natives. "Regional dialects" are usual things even in the lyrics wirtten in English.

With regards

Teru


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Subject: RE: Abschied (Muß i denn)
From: F. Schulte-Noelle
Date: 10 Jun 97 - 02:55 AM

This song is in the Swabian dialect (which is spoken in the area of Stuttgart), the word "i" (for German "ich" = engl. "I") and the diminutive Form "Städtele (with THREE syllables, the tune requires three) for the German Stadt (=town) show that. "§Plattdeutsch" is the dialect Low German which is only spoken in the Northern Regions of Germany.


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Subject: RE: Abschied (Muß i denn)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 10 Jun 97 - 02:55 PM

Vielen Dank. Now, might I beg somebody to give us a translation? Here's an extra verse that wasn't posted before:

1. Muß i' denn, muß i' denn
Zum Städtele hinaus, Städtele hinaus
Und du mein Schatz bleibst hier
Wenn i' komm', wenn i' komm',
Wenn i' wiederum, wiederum komm',
Kehr i' ei' mei' Schatz bei dir
|: Kann i' glei' net allweil bei dir sei'
Han' i' doch mei' Freud' an dir
Wenn i' komm', wenn i' komm',
Wenn i' wiederum, wiederum komm',
Kehr' i' ei' mei' Schatz bei dir. :|

2. Wenn du weinst, wenn du weinst,
Daß i' wandere muß, wandere muß,
Wie wenn d'Lieb jetzt wär vorbei
Sind au' drauß, sind au' drauß,
Der Mädele viel, Mädele viel
Lieber Schatz, i' bleib dir treu.
|: Denk du nett wenn i' a and're seh
No sei mei Lieb' vorbei
Sind au' drauß, sind au' drauß,
Der Mädele viel, Mädele viel
Lieber Schatz, i' bleib dir treu. :|

3. Übers Jahr, übers Jahr,
Wenn mer Träubele schneidt, Träubele schneidt,
Stell i' hier mi' wiedrum ei'
Bin i' dann, bin i' dann,
Dei' Schätzele no', Schätzele no'
So soll die Hochzeit sei.
|: Übers Jahr do ischt mei' Zeit vorbei
Do g'hör i' mei und dei
Bin i' dann, bin i' dann,
Dei' Schätzele no', Schätzele no'
So soll die Hochzeit sei. :|


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Subject: RE: Abschied (Muß i denn)
From: Friedhelm Schulte-Noelle
Date: 11 Jun 97 - 03:47 AM

Hello, Joe,

Your transcription is not quite the one which is sung nowadays, perhaps it was sung to a different tune. If you take the tune that Elvis sang, the first verse must be: "Wenn i komm (or "kumm"), wenn i komm, wenn i wieder, wieder komm..."

I´ll try a translation of the contents without mucking about a lot with the repetitions.

1. So I have to leave this little town / and you, my precious, stay here. / When I return I will come to you. / And even though I can´t be with you all the time / I am full of joy thinking of you. / When I return I will come to you.

2. You are crying that I have to wander / as if our love had ended. / Even though there are many girls out there / my precious love, I will be faithful. / Don´t think that my love will cease if I see other girls. / Even though there are many girls out there / my precious love, I will be faithful.

3. Next year when the grapes are cut / I will return to you. / If you still love me then, we shall have our wedding. / Next year my time is done / the I will belong only to you. / If you love me still then we shall have our wedding.

This song refers to the wandering of the journeymen (carpenters, bakers, potters and so on) who would leave for some time before they would settle down and open their own trade. Another interpretation is that the young man is leaving to go to war but the text quite obviously shows that this is not the case. Maybe there exists another text that refers to a war.

Friedhelm


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Subject: RE: Abschied (Muß i denn)
From: Alan of Oz
Date: 11 Jun 97 - 12:24 PM

Funny, years ago when I attempted to translate this it came out thus:-

MUST I THEN

Must I then, must I then sing another lousy song
'Nother lousy song
When I'd much rather sink a few beers
For the songs that I sing they all sound just the same
Sound just the same
They set folk music back a hundred years.

Chorus These old strings upon this guitar of mine
They all sounded crook from the start
This guitar is no good for there's white ants in the wood
It don't sound the way it should
Any day it'll just fall apart.

I have sung songs by Paterson and Henry Lawson too
Henry Lawson too
Like a good Aussie folk singer should
I have learnt ninety verses of Child ballad forty-two
Ballad forty-two
But I can't make them sound any good.

I have sung them a capella with my finger in my ear
Finger in my ear
Just the way a real folk singer should
But the truth is these songs I just cannot stand to hear
Cannot stand to hear
And I'd sing something else if I could.

Well my songs only rhyme a small proportion of the time
Portion of the time
And they flow like an old demented weatherbeaten tortoise
And I sing them in tune only once in a blue moon
Once in a blue moon
But that's all right 'cause folkies are not supposed to notice.

Sorry about that!
Alan


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Subject: RE: Abschied (Muß i denn)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 12 Jun 97 - 03:04 AM

Thanks, Friedhelm.......

Oh, and Alan, too, I guess....

I found a Hochdeutsch version of the song - I'll post it when I get a chance.

-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Abschied (Muß i denn)
From: CRANKY YANKEE
Date: 23 May 01 - 12:00 AM

Woe, I can't thank you guys enough, I've been looking for more verses to this song for a few years with no luck. Now, lets see if I can find two or three more verses IN ITALIAN to Santa Lucia. There are several published versions of this song in my book collection but they only have English L:yrics. I know the first verse, Sul Mare Lucica etc, but none of my relatives or Italian Friends know any more than I do.Thanks again everyone.

Gratefully yours

Jody Gibson

Oh! no comment on the joke?


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Subject: LYR ADD: Santa Lucia in Italian/English
From: katlaughing
Date: 23 May 01 - 12:10 AM

Joe D. is this the one you are looking for:

Sul mare luccica l'astro d'argento
placida é l'onda
prospero il vento
Sul mare luccica l'astro d'argento
placida é l'onda
prospero il vento
Venite all'argine
barchette mie
Santa Lucia, Santa Lucia Venite all'argine
barchette mie
Santa Lucia, Santa Lucia
Soft winds caress the sea,
Breezes so tender,
Make every dancing wave,
Gladly surrender!
Days here are heavenly,
Nights are pure ecstasy,
Santa Lucia, Santa Lucia!
Venite all'argine
barchette mie
Santa Lucia, Santa Lucia
Original Italian melody by Teodoro Cottrau , 1850
Musical adaptation by Nick Perito with Italian/English lyrics adapted by Ray Charles


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Subject: RE: Abschied (Muß i denn)
From: GUEST,ernest c
Date: 23 May 01 - 01:00 AM

Sad to see such names from the past. Teru. Ralph Butts. Alan of Oz/Australia who has not been here since January. Where are they now and why aren't they here?


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Subject: RE: Abschied (Muß i denn)
From: CRANKY YANKEE
Date: 24 May 01 - 04:57 AM

TERU:

It isn't all that difficult to make a litteral translation of a song in another language, make it rhyme and keep it an accurate, litteral translation.

I am not fluent in Italian, and what I do know isn't really Italian but the Calabrian Dialect which is closer to Spnish than it is to Italian. But,
Most of the songs that he plays are "Schlock" popular songs. But he does also play some excellent folk music, and, every now and then, a really good one is played.

One day he played a record of "Marriana la va in campagnia" Which really grabbed me. (Marrianne goes to he countryside) I taped it and gave the tape to my friend Giuseppe Scagliarini who is from Bologna and he typed out the words with a literal English translation. I read Italian a whole lot better than I can spell it. So forgive me if the spelling is half italian and half spanish. Anyway, I added a word or two here and there for rhymning purposes, but I managed to keep it an accurate translation without altering the "flow". It's so much like our Hillbilly "nonsense" songs like, Cindy, Old Joe Clark, Dan Tucker, etc etcthat I found it esy to do. So here it is. I added a "daisy" to the first verse (for rhymning purposes) and made it even more literal than Giuseppe's translation. It'sd in 4/4 time until you get to the "refrain" which thebn goes to 6/8 with a "Tarantella" rhythm. In the English translation I kept it in 4/4 so that it's "form woould be like our hillbilly songs.

O Dio D' ceil
Qui fai crescere le rose
Manda Maritto a tutti queste cosa
(refrain)E la Marianna la va in campagna quando il sole tramonterra, Tramonterra, Tramonterra.
Qui se cuando, qui se cuando returnera.

(My translation)
Oh Lord up above, who makes the rose and daisy
Please find a husband for each of these young ladies
(refrain) And Mary Ann goes to the country today when the sun goes down
But who knows, who knows when she'll come back to town.

II
O Bella e le rose, m'a encore le piu la viola
La sue mogliatina sera una campagniola
(repeat refrain)
(trans)
Oh pretty is the rose, but pretier the violet's hue.
Be sure that when you Marry it's a country girl for you. (repeat refrain

O bei giovenotte, qui fate al amore
Piglate le bionde, lesciatte quel Amore.

Translation
Come all of you young fellows, chase every girl you see Take all the blondes, leave the dark haired ones for me.


There are three more versesw which I translated as well. When I sang them for Giuseppe, he was astounded and said, "That's right, that's exactly right.


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Subject: RE: Abschied (Muß i denn)
From: Allan C.
Date: 24 May 01 - 07:43 AM

Link to a related thread


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Subject: Muss i Denn? Is this trad? Written by Silcher?
From: Genie
Date: 30 Dec 09 - 02:35 PM

So did Friedrich Silcher writer "Muss i Denn?"

I usually see it listed as "trad," but now I'm told Silcher wrote it. DK when.


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Subject: RE: Abschied (Muß i denn)
From: Mr Happy
Date: 05 Sep 10 - 08:53 AM

Hat jemand eine Idee wie umfassend dies verallgemeinerbar ist? = Does someone have an idea as comprehensively this generalizable is?

[Babblefish!]


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Subject: RE: Abschied (Muß i denn)
From: keberoxu
Date: 28 May 18 - 01:29 PM

Perhaps Genie's question has been answered elsewhere.
Anyway, Wikipedia answers Genie's question, in German.
Using Google search, I pulled up the German Wikipedia article on this very song
and Google fetched me a nice sloppy translation of the article.
From which I distill the following.

The melody itself predates Friedrich Silcher, but he is one of the first
to print out and published the tune.
I have yet to work out Silcher's source material for the melody.
However, Silcher's version dates back to a publication date of 1827.
Composer Silcher labels the melody with the term "Altwürttembergische." That means the Kingdom of Württemberg, which included the medieval duchy of Silcher's native Swabia.
Sometimes says "aus dem Remstal."

Now here's what was done in the 1827 presentation.
Silcher arranged the traditional Swabian/Württemberg melody,
for a four-part men's chorus, no accompaniment.
The first verse does not have an author's name firmly attached to it.
In the second and third verses, however,
the words were written by Silcher's fellow Swabian,
Heinrich Wagner, 1783 - 1863.

The whole thing was included in the publication,
Volkslieder, gesammelt und für vier Männerstimmen gesetzt, volume II, published in 1827 in Tübingen.

Of course, German folk song is of intense interest to German scholars,
and has been thus for centuries.
If you can read German,
here's the "Muss i denn" page at the Lieder Lexikon website.


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Subject: RE: Abschied (Muß i denn)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 28 May 18 - 01:45 PM

Back in 2013-15, I was a volunteer on the staff of the Rise Again Songbook. We did the whole thing on Google Docs. That was helpful in many ways, but it meant the volunteer who posted last, had control of the final product. I researched every song in that book, and I usually got my way - but I had to keep a sharp eye on things.

One of the songs in the book is "Muß i denn," which is in Swabian. I'm pretty good at reading German dialects, but not an expert. For this song, I carefully transcribed the lyrics, using three very reputable German songbooks as reference. And then another volunteer came along ans said, "This isn't German" - and she translated it into proper Hochdeutsch. I put up a fuss, and it was published in Swabian. Can you imagine "Muß ich denn"?

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Abschied (Muß i denn)
From: GUEST,keberoxu
Date: 28 May 18 - 02:41 PM

And for what it's worth:

I now remember this tune from my childhood.
Not the Silcher arrangement auf deutsch,
nor Wooden Heart in English, but ...

a children's lullaby in SPANISH
with a little extra bit of melody tacked on at the end,
a snatch of a tune not found in "Muss I denn".

That last added-on bit was complete with "palomas," doves,
singing curucu - curucu - curucu!!


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Subject: RE: Abschied (Muß i denn)
From: Marje
Date: 29 May 18 - 01:01 PM

In the German link given by Jim above, it says that after Elvis recorded "Wooden Heart", a Spanish version was released - "Corazon de Madera", which sounds like a direct translation. Could that have been what you heard, in the early 1960s?

Marje


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Subject: RE: Abschied (Muß i denn)
From: keberoxu
Date: 29 May 18 - 01:12 PM

Thanks Marje, that's a reasonable suggestion, however:

the Mudcat does have a thread with my Spanish recollection:
the English title is 'My Pigeon House'
and the Spanish version thereof is
'Mi Palomar.'

It is still not clear to me
if a German text exists, besides the Swabian-dialect Muss i denn,
that talks of a German dovecote. I suppose not.


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