Subject: Lyr Add: ABSCHIED (Muß i denn) From: Teru Date: 08 Jun 97 - 07:48 PM There are several songs called "Abschied.” Here, one of these. ABSCHIED (Muß i denn)
Muß i denn, muß i denn zum Städtele naus,
Wie du weindst, wie du weinst, daß i wandere muß,
I hope your computer can read German Umlaut and Eszett. |
Subject: RE: Abschied (Muß i denn)
From: Alan of Australia Date: 09 Jun 97 - 05:10 AM "Muß i denn" (in case you don't recognise it) is the song whose tune was "stolen" for Elvis' "Wooden Heart". Cheers, Alan |
Subject: RE: Abschied (Muß i denn) From: Ralph Butts Date: 09 Jun 97 - 12:29 PM Teru........A couple of minor corrections to the first two lines. Note, it's not a question (Must I?), rather, "I must." "Gotta go to the city now, wait here, Honey." (liberally)......Tiger Muß i denn, muß i denn zum Städtle hinaus, Städtle hinaus, und du mein Schatz, bleibst hier!
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Subject: RE: Abschied (Muß i denn)
From: Joe Offer Date: 09 Jun 97 - 03:20 PM Here's where you can hear the tune to this and many other German folk songs: http://www.ingeb.org/ Say, does anybody want to attempt a translation of the lyrics? I get the general idea, but I always have trouble with those regional dialects. I wouldn't exactly call this "Plattdeutsch," but it certainly isn't the "Hochdeutsch" I learned. -Joe Offer- |
Subject: RE: Abschied (Muß i denn) From: Teru Date: 09 Jun 97 - 08:07 PM Tiger: I agree with you. As far as I know, " 'naus" (not "naus" exactly) is a slang for hinaus. Städtle (not Städtele) may be right. Thank you. Teru Joe: It's difficult or even impossible to "translate" foreign lyrics exaclty. It will be better to "understand" them with the help of the dictionary and/or natives. "Regional dialects" are usual things even in the lyrics wirtten in English. With regards Teru |
Subject: RE: Abschied (Muß i denn) From: F. Schulte-Noelle Date: 10 Jun 97 - 02:55 AM This song is in the Swabian dialect (which is spoken in the area of Stuttgart), the word "i" (for German "ich" = engl. "I") and the diminutive Form "Städtele (with THREE syllables, the tune requires three) for the German Stadt (=town) show that. "§Plattdeutsch" is the dialect Low German which is only spoken in the Northern Regions of Germany. |
Subject: RE: Abschied (Muß i denn) From: Joe Offer Date: 10 Jun 97 - 02:55 PM Vielen Dank. Now, might I beg somebody to give us a translation? Here's an extra verse that wasn't posted before: 1. Muß i' denn, muß i' denn Zum Städtele hinaus, Städtele hinaus Und du mein Schatz bleibst hier Wenn i' komm', wenn i' komm', Wenn i' wiederum, wiederum komm', Kehr i' ei' mei' Schatz bei dir |: Kann i' glei' net allweil bei dir sei' Han' i' doch mei' Freud' an dir Wenn i' komm', wenn i' komm', Wenn i' wiederum, wiederum komm', Kehr' i' ei' mei' Schatz bei dir. :| 2. Wenn du weinst, wenn du weinst, Daß i' wandere muß, wandere muß, Wie wenn d'Lieb jetzt wär vorbei Sind au' drauß, sind au' drauß, Der Mädele viel, Mädele viel Lieber Schatz, i' bleib dir treu. |: Denk du nett wenn i' a and're seh No sei mei Lieb' vorbei Sind au' drauß, sind au' drauß, Der Mädele viel, Mädele viel Lieber Schatz, i' bleib dir treu. :| 3. Übers Jahr, übers Jahr, Wenn mer Träubele schneidt, Träubele schneidt, Stell i' hier mi' wiedrum ei' Bin i' dann, bin i' dann, Dei' Schätzele no', Schätzele no' So soll die Hochzeit sei. |: Übers Jahr do ischt mei' Zeit vorbei Do g'hör i' mei und dei Bin i' dann, bin i' dann, Dei' Schätzele no', Schätzele no' So soll die Hochzeit sei. :| |
Subject: RE: Abschied (Muß i denn) From: Friedhelm Schulte-Noelle Date: 11 Jun 97 - 03:47 AM Hello, Joe, Your transcription is not quite the one which is sung nowadays, perhaps it was sung to a different tune. If you take the tune that Elvis sang, the first verse must be: "Wenn i komm (or "kumm"), wenn i komm, wenn i wieder, wieder komm..." I´ll try a translation of the contents without mucking about a lot with the repetitions. 1. So I have to leave this little town / and you, my precious, stay here. / When I return I will come to you. / And even though I can´t be with you all the time / I am full of joy thinking of you. / When I return I will come to you. 2. You are crying that I have to wander / as if our love had ended. / Even though there are many girls out there / my precious love, I will be faithful. / Don´t think that my love will cease if I see other girls. / Even though there are many girls out there / my precious love, I will be faithful. 3. Next year when the grapes are cut / I will return to you. / If you still love me then, we shall have our wedding. / Next year my time is done / the I will belong only to you. / If you love me still then we shall have our wedding. This song refers to the wandering of the journeymen (carpenters, bakers, potters and so on) who would leave for some time before they would settle down and open their own trade. Another interpretation is that the young man is leaving to go to war but the text quite obviously shows that this is not the case. Maybe there exists another text that refers to a war. Friedhelm |
Subject: RE: Abschied (Muß i denn)
From: Alan of Oz Date: 11 Jun 97 - 12:24 PM Funny, years ago when I attempted to translate this it came out thus:-
MUST I THEN
Must I then, must I then sing another lousy song
Chorus These old strings upon this guitar of mine
I have sung songs by Paterson and Henry Lawson too
I have sung them a capella with my finger in my ear
Well my songs only rhyme a small proportion of the time Sorry about that! |
Subject: RE: Abschied (Muß i denn)
From: Joe Offer Date: 12 Jun 97 - 03:04 AM Thanks, Friedhelm.......
Oh, and Alan, too, I guess....
I found a Hochdeutsch version of the song - I'll post it when I get a chance.
-Joe Offer- |
Subject: RE: Abschied (Muß i denn) From: CRANKY YANKEE Date: 23 May 01 - 12:00 AM Woe, I can't thank you guys enough, I've been looking for more verses to this song for a few years with no luck. Now, lets see if I can find two or three more verses IN ITALIAN to Santa Lucia. There are several published versions of this song in my book collection but they only have English L:yrics. I know the first verse, Sul Mare Lucica etc, but none of my relatives or Italian Friends know any more than I do.Thanks again everyone. Gratefully yours Jody Gibson Oh! no comment on the joke? |
Subject: LYR ADD: Santa Lucia in Italian/English From: katlaughing Date: 23 May 01 - 12:10 AM Joe D. is this the one you are looking for:
Sul mare luccica l'astro d'argento |
Subject: RE: Abschied (Muß i denn) From: GUEST,ernest c Date: 23 May 01 - 01:00 AM Sad to see such names from the past. Teru. Ralph Butts. Alan of Oz/Australia who has not been here since January. Where are they now and why aren't they here? |
Subject: RE: Abschied (Muß i denn) From: CRANKY YANKEE Date: 24 May 01 - 04:57 AM TERU: It isn't all that difficult to make a litteral translation of a song in another language, make it rhyme and keep it an accurate, litteral translation. I am not fluent in Italian, and what I do know isn't really Italian but the Calabrian Dialect which is closer to Spnish than it is to Italian. But, Most of the songs that he plays are "Schlock" popular songs. But he does also play some excellent folk music, and, every now and then, a really good one is played. One day he played a record of "Marriana la va in campagnia" Which really grabbed me. (Marrianne goes to he countryside) I taped it and gave the tape to my friend Giuseppe Scagliarini who is from Bologna and he typed out the words with a literal English translation. I read Italian a whole lot better than I can spell it. So forgive me if the spelling is half italian and half spanish. Anyway, I added a word or two here and there for rhymning purposes, but I managed to keep it an accurate translation without altering the "flow". It's so much like our Hillbilly "nonsense" songs like, Cindy, Old Joe Clark, Dan Tucker, etc etcthat I found it esy to do. So here it is. I added a "daisy" to the first verse (for rhymning purposes) and made it even more literal than Giuseppe's translation. It'sd in 4/4 time until you get to the "refrain" which thebn goes to 6/8 with a "Tarantella" rhythm. In the English translation I kept it in 4/4 so that it's "form woould be like our hillbilly songs. O Dio D' ceil Qui fai crescere le rose Manda Maritto a tutti queste cosa (refrain)E la Marianna la va in campagna quando il sole tramonterra, Tramonterra, Tramonterra. Qui se cuando, qui se cuando returnera. (My translation) Oh Lord up above, who makes the rose and daisy Please find a husband for each of these young ladies (refrain) And Mary Ann goes to the country today when the sun goes down But who knows, who knows when she'll come back to town. II O Bella e le rose, m'a encore le piu la viola La sue mogliatina sera una campagniola (repeat refrain) (trans) Oh pretty is the rose, but pretier the violet's hue. Be sure that when you Marry it's a country girl for you. (repeat refrain O bei giovenotte, qui fate al amore Piglate le bionde, lesciatte quel Amore. Translation Come all of you young fellows, Take all the blondes, leave the dark haired ones for me. There are three more versesw which I translated as well. When I sang them for Giuseppe, he was astounded and said, "That's right, that's exactly right. |
Subject: RE: Abschied (Muß i denn) From: Allan C. Date: 24 May 01 - 07:43 AM Link to a related thread |
Subject: Muss i Denn? Is this trad? Written by Silcher? From: Genie Date: 30 Dec 09 - 02:35 PM So did Friedrich Silcher writer "Muss i Denn?" I usually see it listed as "trad," but now I'm told Silcher wrote it. DK when. |
Subject: RE: Abschied (Muß i denn) From: Mr Happy Date: 05 Sep 10 - 08:53 AM Hat jemand eine Idee wie umfassend dies verallgemeinerbar ist? = Does someone have an idea as comprehensively this generalizable is? [Babblefish!] |
Subject: RE: Abschied (Muß i denn) From: keberoxu Date: 28 May 18 - 01:29 PM Perhaps Genie's question has been answered elsewhere. Anyway, Wikipedia answers Genie's question, in German. Using Google search, I pulled up the German Wikipedia article on this very song and Google fetched me a nice sloppy translation of the article. From which I distill the following. The melody itself predates Friedrich Silcher, but he is one of the first to print out and published the tune. I have yet to work out Silcher's source material for the melody. However, Silcher's version dates back to a publication date of 1827. Composer Silcher labels the melody with the term "Altwürttembergische." That means the Kingdom of Württemberg, which included the medieval duchy of Silcher's native Swabia. Sometimes says "aus dem Remstal." Now here's what was done in the 1827 presentation. Silcher arranged the traditional Swabian/Württemberg melody, for a four-part men's chorus, no accompaniment. The first verse does not have an author's name firmly attached to it. In the second and third verses, however, the words were written by Silcher's fellow Swabian, Heinrich Wagner, 1783 - 1863. The whole thing was included in the publication, Volkslieder, gesammelt und für vier Männerstimmen gesetzt, volume II, published in 1827 in Tübingen. Of course, German folk song is of intense interest to German scholars, and has been thus for centuries. If you can read German, here's the "Muss i denn" page at the Lieder Lexikon website. |
Subject: RE: Abschied (Muß i denn) From: Joe Offer Date: 28 May 18 - 01:45 PM Back in 2013-15, I was a volunteer on the staff of the Rise Again Songbook. We did the whole thing on Google Docs. That was helpful in many ways, but it meant the volunteer who posted last, had control of the final product. I researched every song in that book, and I usually got my way - but I had to keep a sharp eye on things. One of the songs in the book is "Muß i denn," which is in Swabian. I'm pretty good at reading German dialects, but not an expert. For this song, I carefully transcribed the lyrics, using three very reputable German songbooks as reference. And then another volunteer came along ans said, "This isn't German" - and she translated it into proper Hochdeutsch. I put up a fuss, and it was published in Swabian. Can you imagine "Muß ich denn"? -Joe- |
Subject: RE: Abschied (Muß i denn) From: GUEST,keberoxu Date: 28 May 18 - 02:41 PM And for what it's worth: I now remember this tune from my childhood. Not the Silcher arrangement auf deutsch, nor Wooden Heart in English, but ... a children's lullaby in SPANISH with a little extra bit of melody tacked on at the end, a snatch of a tune not found in "Muss I denn". That last added-on bit was complete with "palomas," doves, singing curucu - curucu - curucu!! |
Subject: RE: Abschied (Muß i denn) From: Marje Date: 29 May 18 - 01:01 PM In the German link given by Jim above, it says that after Elvis recorded "Wooden Heart", a Spanish version was released - "Corazon de Madera", which sounds like a direct translation. Could that have been what you heard, in the early 1960s? Marje |
Subject: RE: Abschied (Muß i denn) From: keberoxu Date: 29 May 18 - 01:12 PM Thanks Marje, that's a reasonable suggestion, however: the Mudcat does have a thread with my Spanish recollection: the English title is 'My Pigeon House' and the Spanish version thereof is 'Mi Palomar.' It is still not clear to me if a German text exists, besides the Swabian-dialect Muss i denn, that talks of a German dovecote. I suppose not. |
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