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Lyr Req: German Folk(?) song, Nu Ja Ja

DigiTrad:
A MIGHTY FORTRESS IS OUR GOD
BRAHMS' LULLABY
BUMM! BUMM!! BUMM!!!
CORPORAL SCHNAPPS
DIE GEDANKEN SIND FREI
DIE GUTE KAMERAD
DIE LAPPEN HOCH
DIE MOORSOLDATEN
EDELWEISS
GORCH FOCK LIED
HANS BEIMLER
HEISE, ALL
LILI MARLEEN
MARIA DURCH EIN DORNWALD GING
ODE TO JOY (GERMAN)
YAW, YAW, YAW


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Uncle_DaveO 18 Jan 01 - 09:10 PM
Sorcha 18 Jan 01 - 09:24 PM
Sorcha 18 Jan 01 - 09:30 PM
Ebbie 19 Jan 01 - 02:39 AM
Joe Offer 19 Jan 01 - 03:21 AM
Wolfgang 19 Jan 01 - 04:34 AM
Snuffy 19 Jan 01 - 08:29 AM
Wolfgang 19 Jan 01 - 08:53 AM
Snuffy 19 Jan 01 - 09:15 AM
Wolfgang 19 Jan 01 - 09:29 AM
Uncle_DaveO 19 Jan 01 - 10:31 AM
Sorcha 19 Jan 01 - 10:45 AM
Uncle_DaveO 19 Jan 01 - 12:13 PM
Uncle_DaveO 19 Jan 01 - 12:50 PM
Sorcha 19 Jan 01 - 01:47 PM
Ebbie 19 Jan 01 - 01:48 PM
Uncle_DaveO 19 Jan 01 - 02:20 PM
Rollo 19 Jan 01 - 07:40 PM
Sorcha 19 Jan 01 - 07:54 PM
Rollo 19 Jan 01 - 08:38 PM
Joe Offer 20 Jan 01 - 03:37 PM
Snuffy 20 Jan 01 - 05:13 PM
Uncle_DaveO 20 Jan 01 - 09:20 PM
Wolfgang 22 Jan 01 - 04:15 AM
Uncle_DaveO 22 Jan 01 - 11:15 AM
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Subject: German Folk(?) song, Nu Ja Ja
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 18 Jan 01 - 09:10 PM

There is a German comic folk(?) song which was sung by Richard Dyer-Bennett, called Nu Ja Ja. "Nu Ja Ja" is a sort of chorus line which keeps coming back. It seems that a young man named Krenzlkraut is courting a madchen named Rosl, asking her to marry him. In effect she says she's too young to marry. He replies something to the effect that if she's too young to marry he will be--what? I don't understand enough of the German to be sure. In any case, this impresses her, and yes, she'll marry him.

I'd love to get ahold of the complete German text and a translation. Can anyone help?

DAve Oesterreich


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Subject: Lyr Add: DIE SPRÖDE (trad. German)
From: Sorcha
Date: 18 Jan 01 - 09:24 PM

Well, here is the German:

DIE SPRÖDE

Schlesisches Volkslied
1. Rosel, wenn du meine würst?
Nu, ja, ja, nu, ja, ja!
Und auch meinen Willen tätst?
Nu, ja, ja, nu!

2. Deinen Willen tu ich nicht!
Nu, ja, ja, nu, ja, ja!
Schlag dir lieber ins Gesicht
Nu, ja, ja, nu!

3. Rosel, pflück dir Kränzelkraut.
Nu, ja, ja, nu, ja, ja!
Du sollst werden meine Braut!
Nu, ja, ja, nu!

4. Kränzelkraut das pflück ich nicht!
Nu, ja, ja, nu, ja, ja!
Ich bin jung und heirat' nicht!
Nu, ja, ja, nu!

5. Bist du jung und heiratst nicht?
Nu, ja, ja, nu, ja, ja!
Bin ich stolz und mag dich nicht!
Nu, ja, ja, nu!

from here:http://ingeb.org/Lieder/roselwen.html if you want to check it.......


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: German Folk(?) song, Nu Ja Ja
From: Sorcha
Date: 18 Jan 01 - 09:30 PM

And here is a kind of sort of translation:

The brittle

Schlesi people song
1. Rosel, if you my wuerst?
Nu,, nu,!
And also mean taetst will?
Nu,, nu!

2. Your will do not do I!
Nu,, nu,!
Impact you rather in the face!
Nu,, nu!

3. Rosel, pick you Kraenzelkraut.
Nu,, nu,!
You are to become my bride!
Nu,, nu!

4. Kraenzelkraut do not pick I!
Nu,, nu,!
I am not young and marriage '!
Nu,, nu!

5. Are you young and heiratst not?
Nu,, nu,!
I am proud and like you not!
Nu,, nu!

Seems to be a male/female call and response song, ,maybe Mudgaurd could do better with a translation.......!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: German Folk(?) song, Nu Ja Ja
From: Ebbie
Date: 19 Jan 01 - 02:39 AM

Sorcha, thanks for a good laugh! I was going along translating in my lame German until I came to your 'impact you rather in the face'! Great - and unexpected- line.

Just for the fun of it- until a German speaker comes along, here is my translation:

Rose, when will you be mine? (I don't know what 'nu' means. Maybe 'nun'? as in never? And do my will? Never, yes, yes, yes

Your will I will not do Never, yes, yes, yes I'd rather be hit in the face Never, etc...

Rose, (what's pfluck?) the Kranzelkraut Never, etc... You will be my bride! Never, etc...

Kranzelkraut, I do (blank) not Never, etc I am young and will not marry Never, etc Are you young and will not marry? Never, yes, yes, yes I am proud and I don't need you Never, yes, yes, yes

So, come on, you German readers and set us straight!

Ebbie


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: German Folk(?) song, Nu Ja Ja
From: Joe Offer
Date: 19 Jan 01 - 03:21 AM

Well, it looks so simple, but I miss parts of it. It's a folk song from Silesia, which is now in Poland- or is it from Schleswig-Holstein near Denmark? And then I don't know what wuerst is (not Wurst, which is sausage) - I think it could be a variation of waerest, which is the second person singular present subjunctive of "to be" - so I'd translate the first line, "Rosie, if you were mine." And "Nu Ja..." could be considered a noncomittal response, or maybe it HE that's saying it, just to carry on the conversation...

OK, so here goes:
He: Rosie, if you were mine...
And do my wishes?

She: I won't do your wishes.
I'd rather slug you in the face!

He: Rosie, go pick somekindaplantformakingwreathes (Kraenzelkraut)
You are to become my bride.

She: I'm not gonna pick somekindaplantformakingwreathes
I am young and I'm not getting married.

He: You are young and not getting married?
She: I am proud and I don't like you!
And to come up with that, I took two years of German in high school, one in college, 8 months full-time in the Defense Language Institute, and lived in Berlin two years. Maybe I shoulda stuck with Latin and Greek. Actually, I knew what it meant, but translating is another matter.
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: German Folk(?) song, Nu Ja Ja
From: Wolfgang
Date: 19 Jan 01 - 04:34 AM

A fine job, you did, between you. Some lines have more than one possible sense if you don't look for the context. But the final result looks very good. Three remarks:

(1) I think he is singing the last line (in a sense of 'If you say no, I tell you that I don't like you either'), but there is nothing in the lyrics that excludes Joe's interpretation.

(2) I think, Ebbie's right and 'nu' is 'nun', here best translated by 'well'.

(3) I haven't found Kraenzelkraut yet in my largest dictionaries. Perhaps that is a local name for a common plant. But whatever that plant is, it is to be picked for the bride's wreath, an outdated German custom. And 'pick that plant' has definitely the meaning of 'prepare to marry' or in Joe's translation 'go pick somekindaplantformakingthebrideswreath'

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: German Folk(?) song, Nu Ja Ja
From: Snuffy
Date: 19 Jan 01 - 08:29 AM

Wolfgang

Maybe there is no plant called Kraenzelkraut - doesn't it just mean "flowers/plants for your bridal wreath", whatever they may be?

As I recall Kraut is often used to mean "herb". Would A German bridal wreath traditionally contain herbs like rosemary, thyme etc? Do these herbs have the same sort of meaning that they do in English folksong? And would she wear the wreath on her head or carry it in front of her?

Wassail! V


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: German Folk(?) song, Nu Ja Ja
From: Wolfgang
Date: 19 Jan 01 - 08:53 AM

Snuffy,
I hope you'll get more information from others than from me. I did a search on some pages since I knew nearly nothing. Here are some responses:

-the bridal wreath (Brautkranz, Jungfernkranz) is fixed to the hair of the bride
- it is in some places made out of hair
-according to a song (and you know that song lyrics are not very reliable) the herbs have to be: lavender, myrtle and thyme
- I have no idea what they mean, neither in Germany nor elsewhere.
- In other pages I have found rosemary and evergreen mentioned.

Your guess as to what Kränzelkraut could be might well be true.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: German Folk(?) song, Nu Ja Ja
From: Snuffy
Date: 19 Jan 01 - 09:15 AM

Vielen Dank


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: German Folk(?) song, Nu Ja Ja
From: Wolfgang
Date: 19 Jan 01 - 09:29 AM

as to the question who sings which line I have found this:

Verse 1 he, verse 2 she, verse 3 he, verse 4 she and verse 5 he (also the last line!). The between lines (nu ja ja, nu..) are sung by the opposite sex, respectively. So from the beginning, in Sorcha's post, the gender singing per line is:
M F M F / F M F M / M F M F / F M F M / M F M F.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: German Folk(?) song, Nu Ja Ja
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 19 Jan 01 - 10:31 AM

I'm going to have to dig out Richard Dyer-Bennett's version. I HAVE been known to be wrong (gasp!) but from my recollection and my admittedly poor German, in his version she relents in the last verse. Back later after comparing the text given above with the record.

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: German Folk(?) song, Nu Ja Ja
From: Sorcha
Date: 19 Jan 01 - 10:45 AM

Hey, I knew "my" translation was a crock, it was just what happened when I told Copernic to translate! I really liked the "impact you rather in the face" too! I posted it last nite, and I am still giggling!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: German Folk(?) song, Nu Ja Ja
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 19 Jan 01 - 12:13 PM

My recollection of Dyer-Bennett's record was correct. Here is the last verse as he sings it, as best I can make it out, and missing one word which I can't catch:

Bist du stolz und magst ich nicht?
Nu, ja, ja, nu, ja, ja
Glaub ich __________ und heirat dich
Nu, ja, ja, nu.

Can anyone make an educated guess the "Glaub ich" line should be, from context?

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: German Folk(?) song, Nu Ja Ja
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 19 Jan 01 - 12:50 PM

I guess I should provide what I THINK the translation would be, more or less:

If you're proud and don't like me
Nu...
I'll be glad to marry you.
No...

I may be all wet on that translation, but that's my best guess.

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: German Folk(?) song, Nu Ja Ja
From: Sorcha
Date: 19 Jan 01 - 01:47 PM

It just occured to me that "nu" is Yiddish......


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: German Folk(?) song, Nu Ja Ja
From: Ebbie
Date: 19 Jan 01 - 01:48 PM

It's such fun to try something at which I know I'm incompetent!

I'd say this is:

Are you proud and paymenoattention?
Well, yes, yes, yes
I believe that I will lower myself and marry you.
Well, yes, yes, yes

Just guessing!

Eb


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: German Folk(?) song, Nu Ja Ja
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 19 Jan 01 - 02:20 PM

I like that!

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: German Folk(?) song, Nu Ja Ja
From: Rollo
Date: 19 Jan 01 - 07:40 PM

"Nu" seems just a local expression for "Yes" in some german dialects of the eastern areas. For sure in saxony and expecially in the lausitz area where originally sorbic, a slavonian language is spoken. It sounds also very "schlesisch" to me.

Rollo


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: German Folk(?) song, Nu Ja Ja
From: Sorcha
Date: 19 Jan 01 - 07:54 PM

I think, in Yiddish, it means no, or a lot of times, eh? Sometimes, yes. As in "Oh yes? Really?"


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: German Folk(?) song, Nu Ja Ja
From: Rollo
Date: 19 Jan 01 - 08:38 PM

I don't know about yiddish, which is no german dialect, although it uses many words originating in german language. the rest of the song is definitely not yiddish, but german. I would rather suggest the "Yes" variant.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: German Folk(?) song, Nu Ja Ja
From: Joe Offer
Date: 20 Jan 01 - 03:37 PM

Dave, which Dyer-Bennett album is this on? I thought Smithsonian-Folkways has all of the Dyer-Bennett recordings, but I couldn't find this song wehn I checked their website.

OK, you native Germanspeakers, what's "wuerst"?

Don't know how it's working for the rest of you, but my computer says Mudcat is not accepting umlauts at this time.
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: German Folk(?) song, Nu Ja Ja
From: Snuffy
Date: 20 Jan 01 - 05:13 PM

Joe I'd go along with your earlier guess - a dialect variant of waerest.

Does this work? äËïÖü

Wassail! V


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: German Folk(?) song, Nu Ja Ja
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 20 Jan 01 - 09:20 PM

Richard Dyer-Bennett #8, a 12-incher. Copyright 1959.

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: German Folk(?) song, Nu Ja Ja
From: Wolfgang
Date: 22 Jan 01 - 04:15 AM

Joe,
'wuerst' only makes sense as a typo. What is meant is 'wuerdst' a short form of 'wuerdest' (= would you)

Dave,
give us a transliteration of the missing bit to make guessing easier. And don't forget for the very last bit, 'heirat nich' (don't marry) sounds similar.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: German Folk(?) song, Nu Ja Ja
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 22 Jan 01 - 11:15 AM

The last line is "Glaub ich ________ und heirat dich." Definitely "dich". Can't make out the middle word(s).

DAve Oesterreich


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