Lyr Req: Ain Geyer ist ausflogen in English

Subject: Lyr Req: Ain Geyer ist ausflogen in English
From: Roberto
Date: 23 Sep 06 - 03:08 PM

I'd like to know something about this song. I've taken it from the CD by the Freiburger Spielleyt, Die Gedanken sind frei, ARS MUSICI AM 1209, 1997. I see it also comes under the title Die Bauern sind einig geworden. And I'd like to get an English translation of the text. Thanks. R

Am Geyer ist ausflogen im Hegau am Schwarzwald,
der hat viel Jung' erzogen, die Bauern allenthalb.
Sie sind aufrührig worden in teutscher Nation
und han' ein b'sunder Orden, vielleicht wird's ihn' wohl gon.

Jetzt red ich von den Bauren und ihrem Regiment.
Manch einer nennt sie lauren, und waist noch nit das End.
Es thuns Schinder und Schaber, die treiben Übermut,
merkt auf, ihr Wuchersknaben, es tut in die Leng kain Gut.

Herschaft, die tun sie schrecken, daß sie kaum weiß wonaus,
die Bauren thuns aufwecken und nehmens nach der Baus.
Es seind mir selzam Kunden, sie wagen ihre Haut,
sie hand ain Sinn erfunden, wer hett ihn das zutraut ?

Sie seind ins Feld gezogen, wollt kainer lassen ab,
ist wahr und nit erlogen, so mancher Bauernknab.
Sie hand zusammen g'schworen, dem Adel leid zu tun,
sie hand' ihn fast geschoren, was mag ihn' werden lohn ?

Bauren sind einig worden und kriegen mit Gewalt,
sie hand ein großen Orden und seind auf mannigfalt.
Und thund die Schlösser zreissen und brennen Klöster aus,
so kann man uns nit b'scheissen, was soll ein bös' Raubhaus ?

Subject: Add: Die Bauern sind einig geworden
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Sep 06 - 03:15 PM

http://ingeb.org/Lieder/jetztsig.html

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Hochdeutsch lyrics copy-pasted from source cited above.
-Joe Offer-

Die Bauern sind einig geworden
(Conz Annahans et al. um 1526)

Jetzt sing ich von den Bauern Und ihrem Regiment. Manch einer nennt sie Lauren Und weiß noch nicht das End. Es tun's Schinder und Schaber, Die treiben Übermut; Hüt't euch, ihr Wucherknaben, Es tut in die Läng' nicht gut. Ein Geier ist ausgeflogen Im Hegau am Schwarzwald, Der hat viel Junge erzogen Bei den Bauern überall. Die Bauern sind einig geworden Und kriegen mit Gewalt! Sie haben ein'n großen Orden, Sind aufständig mannigfalt.

Sie sind aufrührig geworden In deutscher Nation Und haben ein' eignen Orden. Vielleicht haben sie Lohn davon. Sie haben zusammen geschworen, Dem Adel Leid zu tun, Sie haben ihn fest geschworen. Was wird ihn'n werd zu Lohn? Sie sind ins Feld gezogen, Ihr keiner wollt' lassen ab, Ist wahr und nicht erlogen, So mancher Bauernknab. Und tun die Schlösser zerreißen Und brennen Klöster aus; So kann man uns nicht mehr bescheißen, Was soll ein bös' Raubhaus?

---

Maybe I shouldn't post the Babelfish translation, because I claim to be able to do a far better translation myself, but here it is. I especially like the part about the aluminum.

The farmers became united
(Conz Anna Hans et aluminium around 1526)

Now sing I from the farmers And their regiment. Some one calls it Lauren And wei?noch do not end. It tun's Schinder and scrapers, Those float?ermut; H?t you, their usury boy, It does into L?' not well. A vulture went on a trip In the Hegau at the Black Forest, That educated much boy With the farmers?rall. The farmers became united And wars by force! They have ein'n gro?n medals, Are aufst?ig mannigfalt.

They became aufr?ig In German nation And have a ' own medal. Perhaps they have wages of it. They swore together, To do the aristocracy wrong, They swore it firmly. What becomes ihn'n become wages? They pulled in the field, You none want ' to leave off, Is true and do not erlogen, So some Bauernknab. And the Schl?er does zerrei?n And Kl?er burn out; So one cannot do us no more beschei?n, What is a b? Robbery house?

---

OK, so here's my working copy. I'll play at correcting the Babelfish translation and see if I can make some sense of it.

The Peasants Have United
(Conz Annahans et al., about 1526)

Now I sing about the peasants And their regiment. Many a one calls it "Lauren" (?) And does not yet know its purpose. Oppressors and scrapers (?) do it, Those who drive arrogance/bravado Be on guard, you growing boys, It will not be good in the long run. A vulture flew out In the Hegau in the Black Forest, That raised/trained/educated many boys [To serve???] With the peasants everywhere. The farmers have united And and wage war with strength. They have a great order (mission?), They are diverse/manifold in their rebellion.

They have been stirred up In the German nation And have their own order (mission?). Perhaps they receive compensation/satisfaction from it. They have sworn together, To do the aristocracy harm, They have sworn it firmly. What will it profit them? They have gone/drawn into the field, None of you wants to back off/relent, It is true and not a falsehood, So it is with many a peasant boy. And they tear the palaces apart And burn the cloisters/monasteries out; So nobody can shit on us any more, What else should an angry house of robbers do?

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There you have it. Better than Babelfish, but a long way from perfect.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ain Geyer ist ausflogen in English
From: Roberto
Date: 23 Sep 06 - 03:32 PM

Thank you, GUEST, but the link doesn't lead to notes on the song nor a translation. I know that site. Anyway, thanks. R

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ain Geyer ist ausflogen in English
From: Wolfgang
Date: 23 Sep 06 - 03:32 PM

Geyer: mind the double meaning

(1) Geier = vulture
(2) Florian Geyer, 1490-1525 (leader in a peasants' uprising)

The translation will be difficult (in too many verses I have to guess the Germn meaning), too difficult for tonight, but I won't forget.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ain Geyer ist ausflogen in English
From: Roberto
Date: 23 Sep 06 - 03:39 PM

Thank you, Wolfgang. I'll also like to know if this song can be traced back to Florian Geyer's times, or if it is a much more recent song. R

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ain Geyer ist ausflogen in English
From: Wolfgang
Date: 23 Sep 06 - 03:41 PM

The lyrics from the ingeb.org site are closer to modern German, that's a help.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ain Geyer ist ausflogen in English
From: Joe Offer
Date: 23 Sep 06 - 03:49 PM

I think I'll be lazy and wait and see if Wolfgang comes up with a translation. I think it will be easier for him to come up with a rough draft, and then maybe I can add something to it.
Click here and here for more information (in German) about the song. I can't find the tune.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ain Geyer ist ausflogen in English
From: Wolfgang
Date: 23 Sep 06 - 03:52 PM

I have a book which has the answer to that question, but I have it at my other home (I'll be there on Monday)

first verse:

A vulture(Geyer) has flown out from Hegau near the Black forest (Hegau is roughly the region between the lake of Constance and the Southern Black Forest),
who(which) has grown a lot of young, namely the peasants everywhere (only with this half line, the double meaning is narrowed down to Florian G.).
They have started to rise up in the German nation
and have their own order (community) they possibly may fare well (prevail).

Wolfgang

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ain Geyer ist ausflogen in English
From: Wolfgang
Date: 23 Sep 06 - 03:57 PM

Joe's first link quotes the source I intended to have a look at on Monday. Steinitz is reliable, so it means the words are old (1526). The composer mentioned (Sueverkruep) is contemporary, but an older tune is mentioned as well.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ain Geyer ist ausflogen in English
From: Wolfgang
Date: 23 Sep 06 - 04:06 PM

BTW, the song has been mentioned once in Mudcat before: here (thread) [and here (message)]

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ain Geyer ist ausflogen in English
From: Joe Offer
Date: 24 Sep 06 - 03:44 AM

Ah, well, I got impatient and gave up waiting for Wolfgang. I posted my attempt at a translation in the second message. Now Wolfgang can correct ME!
I'm open to any corrections or suggestions or clarifications.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ain Geyer ist ausflogen in English
From: Wolfgang
Date: 24 Sep 06 - 04:16 PM

I'll have a closer look tomorrow, but it looks not bad as a start. Just one correction: 'Wucherknaben' is not 'growing boys'. 'Wucher' is an old word for '(a too high) interest', so the Wucherknaben are the lenders of money with a crippling interest. 'Lauren' and 'Schaber' and 'Raubhaus' beats me (without the help of offline memory like dictionaries).

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ain Geyer ist ausflogen in English
From: Wolfgang
Date: 25 Sep 06 - 09:30 AM

There are several words in there I did not know and many others used in a different sense than today's. I'm still not sure but here you go. First draft (based on Roberto's text):

A vulture(Geyer) has flown out from Hegau near the Black forest (Hegau is roughly the region between the lake of Constance and the Southern Black Forest),
who(which) has grown a lot of young, namely the peasants everywhere (only with this half line, the double meaning is narrowed down to Florian G.).
They have started to rise up in the German nation
and have their own order (community) they possibly may fare well (prevail).

I now talk about the peasants and their rule (old meaning of ‚regiment’)
Some may call them rogues (I didn’t know ‘Lauren’ but found it means ‘Schelme’) and don’t know the end
(a bold guess for ‘Schinder’ and ‘Schaber’ being instruments with which the peasants fought:) you can see skinning knifes and scrapers at work in high spirits
Pay attention, you extortioners (profiteers) it will not be good in the long run.

They scare the power/rulers (‘Herrschaft’ is both the power and the people who have it) so that they (the rulers) hardly know where to go
They wake up the peasants and (‘nemens nach der Baus’ = ‘jemandem zusetzen’) and go for (the rulers)
They are uncommon vagrants (‘Kunde’ today = customer, then in the sense of ‘Landstreicher’) they dare their skins (= risk their lives)
They found a sense (a common aim) who would have believed them capable of that?

They went into battle and none of them backed off
It’s true and no lie, many a peasants’ boy (a quite late explanation of who the ‘they’ are in the first line)
They have sworn together to make the aristocracy suffer (‘harm’ would today be a better translation, the word ‘Leid’ has lost a lot of strength since then)
They nearly skinned them (the aristocracy), what will be their prize/fate? (the second ‘geschworen’ on Frank’s website must be a typo for ‘geschoren’; I’ve used the stronger ‘skinned’ instead of the verbatim ‘shorn’)

The farmers have united and wage war with violence
They have a great order (in a secular sense: a community with a common aim) and rebel at many places
And they tear the palaces apart and burn the cloisters/monasteries down
So we cannot be screwed (ripped off) any longer, (freely and boldly now:) who cares for the evil castles of robber barons?

Das buendisch Liedlein (scroll to second song to find the old tune to this song). (Is that the tune on the recording, Roberto?)

BTW, Martin Luther commented like this:
The ass wants to be hit and the rabble needs to be governed with brute force. The peasants do not want to listen to common sense and therefore their ears have to be forced open by clubbing them with box-tree clubs until their heads jump into the air.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ain Geyer ist ausflogen in English
From: Snuffy
Date: 25 Sep 06 - 07:08 PM

Could Schinder und Schaber be proper names - associates of Florian Geyer, perhaps?

If you Google, you will find plenty of Schinders und Schabers on both sides of the Atlantic today.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ain Geyer ist ausflogen in English
From: Joe Offer
Date: 26 Sep 06 - 01:56 AM

Hmmm. Could be a play on words, with Schinder being both a person and an oppressor, and Schaber being both a person and maybe a chiseler?
-Joe-

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ain Geyer ist ausflogen in English
From: Roberto
Date: 26 Sep 06 - 02:14 AM

Thank you very much, Wolfgang, and thanks to Joe Offer as well. Yes, the tune of Das buendisch Liedlein is the one used in the recording I have of Ain Geyer ist ausflogen. R

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ain Geyer ist ausflogen in English
From: Wolfgang
Date: 26 Sep 06 - 05:30 AM

Snuffy, it could be but I don't think so, for in the many websites on the 'Bauernkrieg' leaders with these names are not mentioned (though these are proper names)

Two more ideas, alternatives to my yesterday whim):
(1) Schinder and Schaber are names of two professions whose task is to remove dead animals from the streets (knackers, skinners). These two professions (and the people doing this work) were looked down on. So it could mean: (Even) skinners and knackers (freely: the lowest of the low) are now in high spirits.

(2) 'Schinder' aquired another meaning (already known then and today the only meaning that is used) is a person (the dictionary says 'slave-driver') who forces people to do extremely hard physical work (a sports coach could be called a 'Schinder' today). So Schinder could mean an oppressor, but I don't know another meaning of 'Schaber'. But read in that way the line might mean:
The oppressors feel too good

I'll have a look into Steinitz tonight. He usually prints several versions and has a lot of annotations. If he has a comment that will be (very likely) the definitive decision.

Wolfgang (who today prefers the first of the two versions in this post for the line in question)

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ain Geyer ist ausflogen in English
From: Wolfgang
Date: 27 Sep 06 - 01:54 PM

I've read now the entry about this song in Steinitz.

(1) No help for the Schinder and Schaber line
(2) Steinitz states (without giving a reason) that we should not think of Florian Geyer when reading the first line. By reading some more song from that time I found that "Geyer" in that time could be used as a synonym for 'devil'
(3) written by Conz Annahans in Nördlingen, March, 31st 1525 is the claim in the post in another thread I have linked to above. In the English (language) folk tradition writers are seldom known if the songs are more than 100 years old. So you may wonder why this man is known and why such an exact date is given. Steinitz gives the following explanation:

After the peasants' uprising was crushed many of the leaders and simple combattants have been prosecuted and brought to court. The files of those court proceedings are often still available and have been studied a lot. Annahans was one of those who got a mild sentence for "helping the justice". So he admitted that he has written the original version of that rebellious song but that many other singers have added verses later or changed his lines.

On the 31st of March in 1525, there was a meeting of the rebels in Nördlingen in which they discussed how to act and where to attack. Later that evening, some rebellious songs were sung and one of these songs was our song here, sung by the singer/songwriter (source singer?) Annahans. So the exact date of the first public performance is known (from court files) and we can guess that Annahans has written the song (and the tune? Or used a then known tune?) during the days/weeks before.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ain Geyer ist ausflogen in English
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 28 Sep 06 - 04:11 AM

Schinder (flayer) - Schaber (scraper):
A metaphor for the exploitation of the peasants by their lords. They flay and scrape the poor, even taking their hides from them.