Leadbelly's Real Name

Subject: RE: Leadbelly's Real Name
From: meself
Date: 07 Sep 23 - 11:43 AM

"Looked at Dad's old FBI file ... " - now, that's a phrase that doesn't come up in conversation every day, at least in the circles I travel in ... !

Subject: RE: Leadbelly's Real Name
From: GUEST,RJM
Date: 07 Sep 23 - 11:07 AM

simon prager well i remember you when you played with steve rye, that must have been a wonderful experience accompanying sonny terry

Subject: RE: Leadbelly's Real Name
From: GUEST,simon prager
Date: 07 Sep 23 - 08:09 AM

I knew Sonny Terry a bit and accompanied him when Brownie was sick on tour in England. Sonny who knew Leadbelly well and recorded extensively with him definitely called him Hudy (pronounced hewdie). A always assumed that that was a nickname for Hugh - but that's just me.

Subject: RE: Leadbelly's Real Name
From: meself
Date: 07 Sep 23 - 11:43 AM

"Looked at Dad's old FBI file ... " - now, that's a phrase that doesn't come up in conversation every day, at least in the circles I travel in ... !

Subject: RE: Leadbelly's Real Name
From: GUEST,RJM
Date: 07 Sep 23 - 11:07 AM

simon prager well i remember you when you played with steve rye, that must have been a wonderful experience accompanying sonny terry

Subject: RE: Leadbelly's Real Name
From: GUEST,simon prager
Date: 07 Sep 23 - 08:09 AM

I knew Sonny Terry a bit and accompanied him when Brownie was sick on tour in England. Sonny who knew Leadbelly well and recorded extensively with him definitely called him Hudy (pronounced hewdie). A always assumed that that was a nickname for Hugh - but that's just me.

Subject: RE: Leadbelly's Real Name
From: Mrrzy
Date: 22 Dec 21 - 12:36 PM

Ha! Looked at Dad's old FBI file and they say dad tended bar at the Bee Hive Cocktail Lounge, 1947-8.

Subject: RE: Leadbelly's Real Name
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 15 Dec 21 - 05:36 AM

I missed the Sky Arts programmer on Lead Belly that some 'Catters have mentioned in another thread. Perhaps that gave some clues? I am clearly not alone to note the difference between his own pronunciation and Pete Seeger's.

RtS

Subject: RE: Leadbelly's Real Name
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 14 Dec 21 - 09:58 PM

And so, beyond peradventure, I think we can safely conclude:-

Leadbelly was named Hugh after the popular gay poet Wystan Hugh Auden.
Dee after the the popular American politician Franklin D. Roosevelt.
William after the popular American outlaw Billy the Kid.
And Ledbetter after the depiction of English rose Margot Ledbetter by the ever popular Penelope Keith in the popular sitcom The Good Life.

We take these truths to be self evident.

Subject: RE: Leadbelly's Real Name
From: PHJim
Date: 14 Dec 21 - 02:17 PM

Perhaps Beaulieu is in the eye of the beholder.

Subject: RE: Leadbelly's Real Name
From: PHJim
Date: 14 Dec 21 - 02:17 PM

McGrath Of Harlow,

Where is Beaulieu?

Subject: RE: Leadbelly's Real Name
From: GUEST,GUEST, ar
Date: 13 Dec 21 - 03:24 PM

For what it's worth, "Hudie" is a common Irish nickname for Hugh (Aodh in Irish). It's not surprising that it showed up in the American South. He may have called himself "Hudie" early in life, no matter how it was spelled, and then later, because of the spelling and hearing people who'd never heard the name pronounce it as "Huddie," given in and started pronouncing it that way himself. That would account for a recording of him pronouncing it "Huddie" and other people's recollection -- and Alan Lomax -- of him pronouncing it "Hudie." (Names were often written down wrong in official records, especially when the parents or subjects are illiterate themselves.)

Subject: RE: Lead Belly's Real Name
From: GUEST,okjak
Date: 10 Jan 08 - 01:51 PM

Well, seems no one has thought to enquire about Ledbelly's last name, Ledbetter. It's Old English of course and comes from Lead Beater, i.e. someone who fashions lead as a trade. Most likely the name of a colonial English slaveowner.

Subject: RE: Lead Belly's Real Name
From: Brakn
Date: 02 Mar 05 - 05:55 AM

Just some more info.
In 1880 Leadbelly's parents were living at Jeter Plantation in Mooringsport Louisiana. His father, Wesley Ledbetter(23), was born in North Carolina and in 1880 was a farmer. His mother, Sallie Ledbetter(20), was also born in North Carolina. Living with them was a step son, Alonzo Batts, and a nephew, Warren White.

Also in the same region were Leadbelly's grandparents. Grandfather Wesley Ledbetter(50), a farmer, and grandmother Annie(55), uncles Bob(20) and Terril(15), and aunt Mary(11). They were all born in North Carolina.

It is said that it was Uncle Terril who bought Leadbelly an accordion and that it was either Terril or Bob who taught him "Goodnight Irene".

Info from various sites.

Subject: RE: Lead Belly's Real Name
From: GUEST,Ramsay
Date: 01 Mar 05 - 10:05 PM

If you look at the Leadbelly song book edited by moses asch...there is a reproduction of a letter which leadbelly wrote to moe asch....and although there is no signature , there is an example of his handwriting...

Subject: RE: Lead Belly's Real Name
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Dec 04 - 12:13 PM

I've been looking everywhere for a sample/facimile of his signature. I've been to EVERY site possible over the last 6 months. spent time in The library of congress...They have many handwritten letters but NOT ONE have a signature. I even tried to contact venues he played to see signed contracts. waiting on one person that has a sig to send a copy but till that happens...I dont believe it till it happens..LOL
I will try to reach a few places you suggested...greatIdeas...thanks

Subject: RE: Lead Belly's Real Name
From: GUEST,kiddcreole
Date: 10 Dec 04 - 04:02 PM

Anthony,
While I can not validate the authenticity of the signature, I will say that if it is the real thing, that would be one nice piece of music history to have.

As for proving it's authenticity (as well as getting back on topic) has anyone thought to check old arrest records and such? Leadbelly spent a lot of time in and out of jail, so surely there is some item with his signature/real full name somewhere. They usually put your full birth name on legal documents, so perhaps an arrest record, prison inmate inventory, or some such may be a place to look into finding his real name, and a visit with the public records office of the places where he had been arrested may another altenative. The real question is who cares enough to do the legwork?

Subject: RE: Lead Belly's Real Name
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 11:31 AM

Well, that's interesting. I fought my family to be called "Art". I signed autographs with "Art". But my real name is Arthur. I don't know what this proves---or what the Leadbelly autograph would prove if it is real. Thanks for your work but, for me, it doenn't matter much. Truth is vague at best--and subject to revisionist history's manipulations. It all makes for a good story. New books with new truths will emege. Just wait and see...

Art

Subject: RE: Lead Belly's Real Name
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 10:57 AM

WHAT?...I write these then NOTHING?...ANY thoughts?

Subject: RE: Lead Belly's Real Name
From: GUEST,anthony
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 09:16 PM

OK...this the link to both sides at the same time. If this does not work, just write me....Thanks...Anthony

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/anthonyvp/album?.dir=/8ead

Subject: RE: Lead Belly's Real Name
From: GUEST,anthony
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 09:07 PM

sorry all....Yahoo decided to delete the old links ....
I uploaded them again. If this does not work, I'll send them directly to you. Thanks again.......Anthony


http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/anthonyvp/detail?.dir=8ead&.dnm=1534.jpg


http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/anthonyvp/detail?.dir=8ead&.dnm=e4d6.jpg&.src=ph

Subject: RE: Lead Belly's Real Name
From: Mark Ross
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 11:48 AM

Anthony, your link doesn't seem to work, can it be fixed?

Mark Ross

Subject: RE: Lead Belly's Real Name
From: GUEST,Anthony
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 09:53 AM

PLEASE.....Has anyone a link for me to see Leadbelly's signature? The Library of Congress folklife division thinks it is authentic but cannot verify. Here is my story.........

I collect records as a hobby for over 30 years now and
no, I do not sell records. About 9 months ago I pulled
out Leadbelly's "Rock Island Line" to show a friend.
The record is in pretty bad shape but I love it and it
plays well enough for anyone to enjoy the music. While
I was handling it, the spine split and out fell papers
I knew were in there. A postcard for information on
Folkways records, a liner note booklet that belongs to
different record, Folkways #4 "If I had A Hammer".
What I did not know was there was ALSO this flyer
advertising ticket sales to a Hootenanny at the Turner
arena in Washington D.C. Announcing the Birth of
Entertainment Unlimited The promoters of this, Their
FIRST show. Turning it over I saw the signatures of
Leadbelly AND Pete Seeger. I put it back in the record
and didn't touch it for another 6 months.
One day 3 months ago I decided to pull it out and do a
little researching on the theater ( I live about 15
miles from the address) went online and was...well
almost stumped trying to find ANY information. I
Googled my way through the net searching historical
societies (they never wrote back) Blues and Folk music
organizations , collectible , ephemera and autograph
clubs. Finally I wrote to the 10 largest autograph
dealers online. One wrote back suggesting I write to
the Library of Congress Folklife music department. I
did and they wrote me back the next day!!!

I was invited to do my research there and I am still
seaching at the library when I can visit the archives.
I found Notations on the Hootenanny in BOTH the Star
paper columns ("After Dark" march 18th, 1948) and the
Post "On The Isle" on March 12th, 1948. I have held in
my hands letters written by leadbelly and NOT ONE IS
SIGNED!!!!!! The one piece I have seen is searchable
online but signed "Ledbetter" although when you do
find it while searching a MAJOR autograph dealer, You
CANNOT read the signature. My guess is you would have
to be holding it in your hands to read it.The flyer is
in as mint condition at 56 years old and counting as
can EVER be expected for such a rare Piece of
Americana musical history! I have NOT repeat NOT seen
or heard of a full Huddie Ledbetter signature
anywhere!! EVER!!!

Although I am a novice at this type of research the
handwriting matches the signature. Please write me
with any questions, thoughts or information on value,
rarity and where I could view an authentic Leadbelly
signature.you may have on this piece.

Thank you,

Anthony


P.S. Here are links to view Both sides of my item.
http://us.f1f.yahoofs.com/bc/2ce00b35/bc/2003pics/hootenannyB.jpg?bft35jBBs6RJBvhz

http://us.f1f.yahoofs.com/bc/2ce00b35/bc/2003pics/hootenannyA.jpg?bft35jBBkclIehJG

Thank you,

Anthony

Subject: RE: Lead Belly's Real Name
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Jun 04 - 12:07 PM

He's always wearing clothes - maybe that's what's meant.

Subject: RE: Lead Belly's Real Name
From: Nerd
Date: 23 Jun 04 - 01:20 AM

Also, I'm not sure what it means to say there are no "full view pictures of Leadbelly." Do you mean paintings? There are plenty of photos, some film, etc.

Subject: RE: Lead Belly's Real Name
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Jun 04 - 06:02 AM

Leadbelly was really Walter O'Malley? I always thought he must be Irish. And that song is really "Goodnight Eileen"...

Subject: RE: Lead Belly's Real Name
From: GUEST,Elvis P.
Date: 21 Jun 04 - 11:36 PM

Deckman,

I can explain Leadbelly's autograph from 1972. Just for kicks, I signed his name in a bunch of those books. I also signed Woody Guthrie's name in a bunch of copies of Joe Klein's bio. That's the kind of joker I am.

Elvis P.(now pumping gas in an Esso way off the interstate)

Subject: RE: Lead Belly's Real Name
From:
Date: 21 Jun 04 - 04:11 PM

Hi all,
according to Mrs> Cobb at the Jobb estate in Fort Worth Texas where I have purchased a full view portrait painting of aka Huddie Leadbetter.This was back in 1985 she stated that her daughter was married to Diamond Jim Brady the river boat gambler which were very close friends of Huddie and in turn has said that his actual name is Walter O'Malley and that a woman at the bordeau gave him the nickname of Ledbelly.His actual nickname was Hudie.At this time the woman that I was talking with was in her late 80's.Thia may help you all since I am trying myself to find out more about the Leadbetter painting I have of him in the year that I think it was painted in 1937. As I know of there is no known full view pictures 0f him muchless of the painting I have in those days.

Subject: RE: Lead Belly's Real Name
From: Cool Beans
Date: 09 Feb 04 - 09:03 AM

Leadbelly lives on in another mysterious way: In a new (2003) biography of Arthur Miller there's an account of a New York party that Miller attened in 1954. Leadbelly was among the guests and sang "Goodnight Irene." I called the author, Marttin Gottfried, and told him Leadbelly had died in 1949. He said that of necessity he gets some informaiton from interviews with and that his source must have remembered incorrectly. He was apologetic.
The book is called simply "Arthur Miller" and it's otherwise excellent.

Subject: RE: Lead Belly's Real Name
From: Art Thieme
Date: 09 Feb 04 - 12:13 AM

Tom was a good banjo player 40 years ago. Hope you're still pickin', guy.

Art

Subject: RE: Lead Belly's Real Name
From: GUEST,Big Jim from Jackson
Date: 08 Feb 04 - 04:07 PM

Hey, Coyote Breath: We had a guy on my highschool basketball team whose name was Meisenheimer. On the backs of the team uniforms each player had his named spelled. Unfortunately, Meisenheimer was too long to fit, so they broke it into two parts, like this:
                   Meisen-
                   heimer
This led to his teammates calling him by the following:
                Meisen hyphen heimer
It was all said together, as though it was one word.

Subject: RE: Lead Belly's Real Name
From: Mrrzy
Date: 08 Feb 04 - 10:39 AM

OK, memory problem: I think I said the name of the famous club where Dad tended bar and served Leadbelly, but I can't find it and can't remember it and neither can Mom now, can anybody? THANKS!

Subject: RE: Lead Belly's Real Name
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Aug 01 - 05:35 AM

"Beaulieu is Bewley" - that's the way it's pronounced in England too. Especially by posh people.

Subject: RE: Lead Belly's Real Name
From: Coyote Breath
Date: 31 Jul 01 - 10:24 PM

Boy! you can say THAT again! My last name is...

Meisenheimer. Really!

I've had a lot of fun with that you can bet.

Subject: RE: Lead Belly's Real Name
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 31 Jul 01 - 10:04 PM

ie = ee, ei = i. the main vowels are ah, ay, ee, oh and oo in most languages. English is the exception that proves the rule. Many people (including myself) pronounce their name incorrectly. We just like to confuse others.

Subject: RE: Lead Belly's Real Name
From: Coyote Breath
Date: 31 Jul 01 - 09:51 PM

Art! as I remember you introduced yourself to me as Thieme (theem) and anyway in German "ie" is EE and "ei" is I!

Am I cornfuzed? or jest OLD?

Subject: RE: Lead Belly's Real Name
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 31 Jul 01 - 08:25 PM

Although Leadbelly is used by most people, according to one biog. note, his family said he preferred Lead Belly (as this thread starts out). The fragment found by Max shows definitely a long U (Hew-die) but I won't crow over Cranky Yankee. My name is pronounced variably and I usually just go along with the speaker. A double-d would make it Hud (as in Mud) to most people, but regionalism must be considered. Lead Belly himself may have been ambivalent about his name and may have changed through time. As some others have posted here, I have checked a number of bios. and can't find Hudson in any of them. Other southern names- Beaufort becomes Bewfort, Beaulieu is Bewley, Spahn is Spain, etc, etc. And they used to eat Vy-anna sausages. This would make a thread in itself.

Subject: RE: Lead Belly's Real Name
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 31 Jul 01 - 07:55 PM

Definitely that's a long u.

And I've heard that one often enough, and never picked it up, just went on pronouncing it with a short u.

But I want to get hold of that kid's record he did.

Subject: RE: Lead Belly's Real Name
From: Max
Date: 31 Jul 01 - 05:04 PM

On Leadbelly's Last Sessions he sings Fannin Street and sings that same line that toadfrog mentioned above. Listen yourself right from the horses mouth.

Subject: RE: Lead Belly's Real Name
From: Art Thieme
Date: 31 Jul 01 - 04:26 PM

Folks,

In other threads here at Mudcat I have mentioned that I was once a part of a folk quartet that consisted of Elvis Pressley, Patty Page, Rosemary Clooney and myself.

We called ourselve Pressley, Page, Rosemary and Thieme !!

What I'm saying is that just because said that line on stage maybe 300 times probably, my last name is still pronounced as if it were THEME (like a theme song and nothing like thyme.

Art

Subject: RE: Lead Belly's Real Name
From: CRANKY YANKEE
Date: 31 Jul 01 - 02:13 PM

Jocko@NZ. You're absolutely right, his name was "Hudson Ledbetter"

HE pronounced it ,"H-UH-Dee", Not "Hugh-dee". I've got one of his records that was recorded while he was singing to a bunch of school children. He said, at the beginning, "Good Mornin' Chillun, my name is HUH-DY Ledbetter."

He also says his name, as a contraction of "Hudson". on "The Ballad of the Boll Weevil"

Besides, I knew him slightly when I was a kid.

Subject: RE: Lead Belly's Real Name
From: Tedham Porterhouse
Date: 31 Jul 01 - 10:35 AM

Rick,

Terrell is correct.

Subject: RE: Lead Belly's Real Name
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 31 Jul 01 - 10:10 AM

Now cut that out McGrath!!!

There's another "name" thing that I remember from years ago.

Was Sonny Terry, Saunders Teddell or perhaps Saunders Terrell. The first may have been a mis-print...anyone know?

Rick

Subject: RE: Lead Belly's Real Name
From: Deckman
Date: 31 Jul 01 - 06:58 AM

Highly Likely. Bob Nelson

Subject: RE: Lead Belly's Real Name
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 31 Jul 01 - 06:26 AM

I'd imagine the most likely explanation for that dedication is that Walt was quoting something that Leadbelly said to him, or maybe wrote to him, and he put it in the book when he got it over 20 years later as a reminder of old times.

"straight from the horse's mouth" - once again, the singing horse!

Subject: RE: Lead Belly's Real Name
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 31 Jul 01 - 01:32 AM

The Leadbelly Web has some interesting information. It says he was born Huddie William Ledbetter on Jeter Plantation, LA (Jan 29, 1885; date in dispute). A LA penitentiary record, 1934, shows his name as Huddie Ledbetter. A fairly long biography is given. It notes that he said he got "Goodnight, Irene" from his uncle, Bob Ledbetter (probably true since one of the verses came from another song (see Digitrad). In the south, Huddie would be pronounced "Hugh-die", according to my deep south wife.

Subject: RE: Lead Belly's Real Name
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 31 Jul 01 - 01:05 AM

Ahahhh Toadfrog! Brilliant...we get the pronunciation straight from the horse's mouth. We all should have thought of that! Good work.

Rick

Subject: RE: Lead Belly's Real Name
From: toadfrog
Date: 30 Jul 01 - 11:52 PM

Let's see. I have a very old recording of Pete Seeger, in which he pronounced it "Hew-die." But Leadbelly sang:

If anybody ask you, who composed this song,
Tell 'em its Hud-die Ledbetter, he's done been here and gone
Just lookin' for a home . . .

Subject: RE: Lead Belly's Real Name
From: Deckman
Date: 30 Jul 01 - 10:56 PM

Hi Mark ... I had bride Judy read the dedication. She reads English better than I and her beautiful eyes are younger than mine! She interputs the same as I. I know of someone in London I can quiz about this, but I'll be surprised if she has any information. I'll e-mail her now. I want to be clear about something. Let's not get this thing built beyond porportion. All I have is a book that Walt gave me with a dedication that doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. Walt lived a mysterious life and many mysteries remain, but let's not jump into unreality about this. I'll let you know what I learn. Meantime, I can hear my Martin playing with itself, again. CHEERS, Bob(deckman)Nelson

Subject: RE: Lead Belly's Real Name
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 30 Jul 01 - 10:40 PM

Well, to Muddy the Waters a bit (oof! sorry), I'll just correct the minor medical misinformation in Bob's book: Amyotrophic lateral sclerosis is not a form of poliomyelitis. It's a degenerative disorder of the spinal cord, commonly known as Lou Gehrig's disease. I didn't realize Leadbelly had it, too. Be that as it may, having recently had some interesting flirtations with the paranormal, I'd be very interested in discovering how Leadbelly signed a book that wasn't published until 22 years after his death!

Aloha,
Mark