Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: oggie
Date: 25 Oct 06 - 04:11 PM

Secret is not to use Royal Mail. I've had fretsaws delivered from the States and my supplier uses Schenkers. They do all the clearances and then dliver and I give them a cheque on the doorstep.

oggie

PS Woodworking tools are 1.7% duty - God knows why the difference.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: Midchuck
Date: 26 Oct 06 - 01:11 PM

Send me the 750 - about what? US$1,250? and I'll buy a D15 and a round trip plane ticket and bring it to you. Come pretty close, anyway.

I decided to research it and find out how far short I was. The results were surprising.

Google says 750 British Pounds = US$1,403.

Elderly Instruments lists $849 as the "minimum advertised price" for a D-15.

The cheapest price I came up with for New York to London round trip was $447.

Looks like I'd have a few bucks left over for Customs and local travel.

Peter

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST,chill, kendall
Date: 26 Oct 06 - 01:38 PM

Per Kendall:

It always gives me pleasure to hand my Taylor to a Martin lover and watch his reaction as he plays it.Instant converts. One well known collector/picker played it and was both amazed and crest fallen. he said, "This sounds as good as my vintage Martin for which I just paid $10,000!"

Sorry, Kendall, but Taylors are the quintessential point-of-sale guitar. They arrive with Elixer strings and easy action, and reward the neophyte player with the sense that they're holding a brilliant instrument. But the sound is trebly and thin, and lacks, well, balls. Taylors are he favored guitar of a lot of folky girls. Nothing intended by that but observation.

Enjoy your Taylor- it probably has opened up in twenty years, as any guitar will. But your "collector/picker" friend sounds like he was stroking you behind the ears back there, buddy. He'll never be buying Taylors for his collection.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: Scoville
Date: 26 Oct 06 - 01:44 PM

I don't see the point of buying a low-end Martin just for the name; I've both heard and played them and wasn't impressed (and definitely wasn't impressed enough to pay the price difference). I can see that it might make a difference in the upper-end guitars, though. Personally, I'd never rule out a guitar based on name prestige/lack of name prestige and I'd never buy a guitar without playing the exact instrument (I'd never mail-order one based on make & model).

I've "met" a few guitars for which I would have given my eye teeth; one was a teeny little 1936 Martin 0-18, one was a friend's big old Fender (the SOB sold it and got a new Taylor that sounded like a fence post; I could have killed him), and the third was a 1960's Guild. They were all great guitars, but then they were all higher-end guitars (at least, much higher end than I could afford/my playing skills would justify).

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: oggie
Date: 26 Oct 06 - 05:39 PM

Once you're past the entry level isn't the sound/feel of any guitar largely a matter of taste? I personally find that Taylors leave me cold, I've tried a number of Avalons, one was gorgeous (to me), my wife hated it. Yesterday I took my Epiphone with me when I went to try some guitars and the salesman's attitude was 'why are you trying to trade up? how much do you want for it 'cos I'll have it!'

Yes I did try another Martin (well sveral in fact)and guess what, didn't like them! So the search for a new guitar goes on but I've learnt one lesson, when you find the guitar that 'speaks' to you BUY IT, don't rely on finding another like it even if it is the same brand and model.

All the best

oggie

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST,Chris
Date: 30 Oct 06 - 06:01 PM

Martin v Taylor. Who cares. Have any of you guys ever played a Levin?

My point is that we all have our favourites. A martin lover will never agree with a fan of Taylors and vice versa.

One thing is for sure though. Once you get above amateur level instruments, which for Martin is anything less than a D18 or 00018 or 0M18 etc. the quality of all makes starts to really soar. Over here in the UK, if you pay anything under £1200 for a new Martin, you are almost certainly getting less than professional quality and by the time you drop to those costing under a grand, you really ought not to bother because they are pure shite, better to buy Jap-crap plywood rubbish from Yamaha. However, once into the realms of model 28 and above, you really are driving a Rolls Royce.

Another thing that might put off Taylor fans is that a Martin needs at least 3-5 yrs playing in before it reaches its peak tonal quality whereas Taylors tend to leave the factory as good as it gets. So they sound great as soon as you buy them. I prefer to buy something that sounds good new knowing that in a few years it will sound so good it would make angels cry.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: Midchuck
Date: 30 Oct 06 - 06:19 PM

...Taylors tend to leave the factory as good as it gets...

Yeah, that's the problem.

Peter.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST,vyperr
Date: 11 Nov 06 - 07:55 AM

I cant believe I sat here and read all these posts!
The debate can rage from now till the heavens fall, and the fact remains this. We each are individual, with individual needs and tastes. I play, wont say what I play, its pointless, what is most impportant is this, I play for the joy it brings me, the smile, or feeling of peace it may bring another, even if only briefly during that time. I ask you, "Can a price be put on what we feel when we share a gift, be it from an Ibanez Aw-200, a Martin D-35, a Taylor 800....and the list goes on, but, I have made my point.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: Ebbie
Date: 11 Nov 06 - 05:34 PM

I have a D35 12-fret slothead Martin. Normally I take it wherever I go locally. However this winter when it's been raining and blowing or snowing I leave it home and use a friend's guitar. It isn't far to Friday Night music -only about 3 blocks - but one of those blocks is up an 84-step staircase.

I've been using my friend's Washburn the last couple of months. My friend used it and liked it until she bought a D28.

The Washburn, imo, is close to being junk, mostly because it never sings. The low E string, for instance, positively thuds. She says, however, that she paid about $400 for it, which surprises me because I thought a Washburn is pretty much a $100 guitar.

Last night another friend brought an extra Martin for me to use, a D35. It's a 14 fret and it doesn't have the sound that my own guitar has but it was a joy to use. Stroke those strings and it talks back to you.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST,Fred Boulton
Date: 10 Dec 06 - 11:45 PM

They're not! For an instrument that is so beautiful, so well-made, such great quality, I don't think they're expensive.

I had a 1964 000-28 for many years and it was a lovely guitar. Always turned people's heads with its clear balanced tones.

I bought a D76 in 1976 and it's been my friend ever since. Once again, people are always amazed at the beautiful balanced sound across all strings and tones.

I'm about to buy a D41, a different creature again.

Not, expensive, just not cheap!

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST,jock whitby
Date: 14 Dec 06 - 06:13 AM

are they?you can buy a dx1 for less than 500 notes.its tone of the best sounding jumbos ive ever owned-not competing with the d28 ecits such a beautifull guitar i darent play it.try the dxi

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST,Bubblyrat
Date: 12 Jan 07 - 05:48 PM

For many guitar-players, ownership of one of the finest,if not THE finest,guitars in the world is a lifetime goal !! Yes, you can buy cheaper guitars that perform very well,and are satisfying to play, But to paraphrase a recent advertisement for Belgian Lager, a Martin is "reassuringly expensive". Then there is the kudos of owning a Martin, and knowing that people know that you own & use a Martin !!That is priceless, & obviously you don"t want too many others to share that feeling ! And,to be honest, Martin guitars have a tone,and a build quality, and "feel", that just sets them apart from the rest, & naturally,that comes at a price . So I will continue to lend people my Avalon, if they really MUST borrow a guitar, but my Martin   ?? ?NEVER !!!

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST,Terry McDonald
Date: 13 Jan 07 - 09:50 AM

Never really liked Martins, always sound a bit metallic to me. Now my 1964 Gibson - that really does have a wonderful, rich tone.........

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST,Frank Hamilton
Date: 13 Jan 07 - 11:45 AM

I wouldn't part with my oo-21 for any money.

But what isn't being said here is that one guitar in the hands of one player will sound different in the hands of another.

Case in point: I have played Big Bill Broonzy's guitar on numerous occasions at the Old Town School. No way am I going to make it sound like Big Bill did it.

OTOH I make my guitar sound the way I play it and others have played it and not sounded the same. Some of them don't like it for themselves which is perfectly understandable.

The guitar is such a personal instrument that to try to standardize it is to miss the boat.

Martin Guitars are expensive because of their long reputation. Nowadays, there are makers who are just as good but it really comes down to the player.

Also, body type has a lot to do with it, size of hands, approach to the instrument....all the personal variables. The discussion here is almost a red-herring.

The guitar that works for you is worth what you pay for it.

Frank Hamilton

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST,Tim Ausburn
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 12:19 AM

I've read most of the postings about Martin guitars and the one by Frank Hamilton explains it the best that I've heard.
I'm 72 and have played guitar for 60 years. I've owned just about every kind of quality guitar going and have played many others that I haven't owned. I've done repairs and set up on hundreds of guitars in the 50 years that I've been in the repair business. I have checked out MANY D-18 and D-28 Martin guitars that had the bridge located wrong. Some were over 1/8 of an ince out, usally short so that the guitar played sharp. I have found this problem in all other makes of guitars also.
I have always advised anyone looking to buy a guitar to travel as far as practical and try as many guitars as they can before deciding on one.
I agree with postings that say that a given guitar will sound different when played by different people.
I have played Taylor guitars, most of their higher priced models at least and most were fairly decent sounding and playing guitars. I just can't get the tone and volume from the Taylor guitars that I'm looking for. Some Santa Cruz guitars are good also but I find things I don't like with every brand I try.
I've found duds in every brand of guitar that I've ever tried. I still believe that overall when you compare same quality guitars from all makers that Martin comes out ahead.
I play a 1951 D-28 Martin that plays in tune all up and down the neck. I have a 2004 HD-28V Martin that sounds great and plays in tune all up and down the neck. I have a 2005 DCME acoustic/electric Martin that has a neck that feels like a Gibson electric. It is really fast. It also plays in tune all over the neck.
I was very upset when Martin started putting the Martin name on their line of cheap guitars. I think they should have kept the Sigma line for low priced guitars.
Anyway these are just my feelings about guitars that I've developed from 60 years of playing and comparing them.
Thanks for your time.
Tim Ausburn

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST,Grimmy
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 07:51 AM

Martins are undoubtedly the standard by which other guitars are judged. However, it is interesting to note just how many of the 'big name' British folk/celtic guitarists DON'T play Martins. This is a quick list of the artists (all nationalities) I've seen in the past 12 months, together with their guitar make:

Bert Jansch - Yamaha
John Renbourn - Bown
Clive Carroll - Bown
Ralph McTell - Yamaha
Martin Simpson - Sobell
Pierre Bensusan - Ryan
Martin Carthy - Martin (his 'other' guitar is a Fylde)
Davy Graham - unknown (Woolworths?)
Tony McManus - Kelday
Kelly Joe Phelps - Martin
Keith Hinchliffe - Brook
Michael Chapman - ? (not Martin)
Gordon Giltrap - various (not Martin)
Thomas Lieb - Lowden

I offer this as an observation only. You may draw your own conclusions.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: mandotim
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 08:31 AM

I've seen Michael Chapman and Gordon Giltrap playing Fylde guitars; in fact I played Michaels old Fylde Caliban last night. Gordon Giltrap has a Fylde 'signature' model, but also has a collection of Rob Armstrong guitars. Maartin Allcock plays Sobell, Armstrong and ...wait for it...Crafter guitars. Last time I saw Ralph McTell he had two guitars on stage; one was a Martin D28, and the other was a Santa Cruz.
Tim

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST,james t
Date: 27 Jan 07 - 09:37 AM

this debate is certainly informative for me who have just acquired a D28 (2005) a guitar which i have aspired to since beginning to strum 40 years ago when i was being brought up on the kingston trio, the guys who really first used the things to their potential.

i do have to agree though, having played some fine instruments over the years and some collector's models, that i am for the moment a bit disappointed with the D28 for one reason mainly. The projection is just about right (have tried both lights and mediums -- elixirs, martins, you name it...), the action is ok, i was expecting a tougher go at it, but i guess after 40 years of playing my chops are in shape. The looks and durability are not to be questioned, the ebony fingerboard is uniform even if the spruce grain in not exactly straight but does contain two or three "unique" irregularities... No, the ONE thing that is irking me for the moment is ... the intonation!!!!

The dude you said above "if the E comes through clear then the A is out", I would be even more specific and say its the second B string that doesn't want to adhere when going through even the most basic chord progressions. The problem seems to level out though when you tune by tempering (and tampering) so that even in C or D bar chords in any position it rings truer. I do know a bit what I'm talking about having not only played all styles over the years in all conditions with and without amplification but also from experience as a pianist (player and tuner). so much that the intonation "problem" has been bumming me out, proportionally to my expectations for finally owning the mythical D28.

I've been surfing on the web for the past week looking for help/hope as to this intonation tweak-out and that's what brought me here today.
I'm prepared to see a qualified and creative luthier but certainly do not see the point of having to re-do the instrument.

By the way, have also played some fine sounding Taylors, even the damn 310 sounds great, i can only imagine what a fine sounding instrument the 810 must be... hell, I'm not married to Martin, just looking for a reliable (tone and intonation-wise) instrument that will surprise me every day, make me and others smile any time I bring it out.

Thanks for reading me and love to all

james t

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 27 Jan 07 - 10:05 AM

Well my D28, also the realisation of a lifetimes ambition to own one, is of 1997 vintage. I was pleased with it when I first got it, and over time it has 'played in' beautifully. However the biggest improvement to both it's intonation and playability was when last year I took it to my Luthier and got it 'Set up' He didn't do that much, checked all the grooves in the nut were the right width, and that the strings laid flat in them all the way along, he then took out the saddle and sanded it down to lower the action a bit, and he reamed out the peg holes to they sat in there more snugly. It made the guitar so much easier to play, and less painful on the fingertips too.
As for strings I struggled for a while, didn't like the Martin strings, took to D'Addarios, then tried Elixir. I loathed Elixir, found them 'slippy'. Then I tried Newtone strings, and for me they are the best I have found so far.
So persist with you D28, consider getting it set up, and try Newtone strings. They do take time to play in, most guitars do.
Giok

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST,james t
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 10:21 AM

thanks for the encouragement giok, yeah, i intend to do just that anyway, being a patient kind of guy. the question of the guitar's price, of course, looms in the background of this discussion but i trust you'd agree that most cheaper guitars are exactly that, "cheap" with the possible exception here and there... (my brother has a yamaha jumbo that plays like a rolls). As for the elixirs, i find them at first to be smooth and quick, the first impression being like wow what tone! but after a couple of weeks i find the tone to be irregular, with funky second and third harmonics detectable in open string playing, which does not at all lend itself to achieving harmonious intonation, does it... so when the current set of elixir lights runs itself thin, i take your advice and try the newtones. AND i will make an appointment with the luthier. Yes, I do know that about 99% of Martin acquirers end up admitting they've had to have it regulated at the outset for this and that. Let's hope that'll do the trick 'cause, once again, it's just a beautiful instrument otherwise that's just waiting to sing. last question : are those medium or light newtones you've got on your '97 martin?

james t

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 10:28 AM

Mediums
G ¦¬]

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST,Texas Guitar Guy
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 02:48 PM

I'm so grateful to Bob Taylor for making good guitars for the masses. Keeps them from buying all the truly great Martins that those of us with a more discrening ear.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: pirandello
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 09:26 AM

james, re: your Martin and intonation. Firstly, ANY guitar, if it has a scale length calculated by the Rule of 18 (and most have) will show discrepancies in intonation. This is a mathematical fact of tempered tuning and no guitar can be made to play perfectly in tune in every key, no matter how stellar the builder, or how accurately the fret positions or bridge location have been calculated. If your guitar was perfectly intonated in the key of D it would sound horribly out of tune in A, which is why I never use an electronic tuner as very few except the most expensive Peterson stroboscopic models allow for tempered tuning.
There are some ways to marginally improve intonation like the Earvana nut and the Buzz Feiten tuning system but, ultimately, you still have to compromise and the shorter the scale the more difficult it is to achieve acceptable intonation.
You just have to use your ear and sweeten the tuning to suit the guitar; for example most of my guitars need the bottom E flattened a touch as well as the top E and B.
Most Martins now have compensated bridge saddles, particularly on the B string, but, again, you are limited in how much adjustment you can do by the width of the saddle.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: English Jon
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 10:04 AM

They aren't! The dollar is worth bugger all, so now is a great time to have one sent over from the states.

Cheers,
Jon

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST,Peter Green
Date: 21 Apr 07 - 08:52 AM

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: pirandello
Date: 22 Apr 07 - 08:44 AM

Anything is expensive if you can't afford it!
Martin guitars, like any other, will vary in perceived quality of tone; but that is so subjective as to be almost meaningless.
I have owned close on a dozen Martins and currently own one, a 0000-36 Custom and three Gibsons; Advanced Jumbo, SJ 200 and J185 Koa Custom.
They were all expensive but what I'm paying for is premium tonewoods, great build quality and superb tone. It takes a long time to find really great sounding examples but, if you take your time looking, they are out there and when you find THE one the expense is easily justified.
I'm also paying for intangibles; heritage, ownership of a bit of guitar building history and pride of ownership.
If you think Martins are expensive then take a look at Jeff Traugott's creations-they start at $26,000. Martin prices pale into insignificance...
As to what's the best guitar; it only exists in the ears and hands of the buyer irrespective of the name on the headstock.
In 1969 my lowly Yamaha FG 180 was the best I could afford and at £40.90p was a lot of pocket money for a 16 year old kid.
It's all relative and it's all good.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST,Warwick Slade
Date: 23 Apr 07 - 04:44 PM

In the 70's I was fortunate enough to own a 1938 Martin 00018, my pride and joy. It was better recieved than I was. However I unfortunately had to sell it to keep a roof over my head. A couple of years ago I bought a new 00018 but it was not the same. Does the years dim the memory or do they not make 'um like they use to?
Incidently I now play an Avalon L32c. Now that IS a fine guitar!

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: Midchuck
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 10:29 AM

n the 70's I was fortunate enough to own a 1938 Martin 00018, my pride and joy. It was better recieved than I was. However I unfortunately had to sell it to keep a roof over my head. A couple of years ago I bought a new 00018 but it was not the same. Does the years dim the memory or do they not make 'um like they use to?

Two points:

1) In the thirties and early forties Martins were more lightly braced. When people started trying to use them for rhythm in string band settings, they strung them with heavier and heavier strings and beat on them harder. Martin started getting more warranty claims than they could afford. So they beefed up the bracing. That made the guitars more durable, but hurt the sound. Now they're selling the more lightly braced models again, as "vintage" versions, at a premium price. Doesn't seem quite fair, but what do I know about merchandising?

2) There is no quick way to duplicate the effect of 40 years of aging and being played, on guitar wood. None.

If you'd kept the '38, you could probably sell it now and buy a couple of houses, live in one and collect rent on the other...

Peter

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 11:31 AM

One of the reasons VINTAGE Martins are so expensive is that people (particularly owners)tend to promulgate myths about them. Some sound better than modern guitars but some don't. And as for a 1938 0018 being valuable enough to fund the purchase of two houses- well, maybe- if you had about 60 of them!

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: pirandello
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 02:06 PM

If the houses were in Merthyr Tydfil you could probably buy a couple of streets!

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST,Warwick Slade
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 02:20 PM

When I sold the 1938 00018 in about 1976 Orange Music in London gave me £195 which I accepted becouse I was desperate. I was ripped of but it appeared the Music Shops of the time operated a cartel as I was expected at each shop and offered the same price!!!! Coincidence or what?

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST,Marco
Date: 12 Jun 07 - 12:44 AM

I Just bought a 2006 HD28. This guitar is the best sounding guitar I've heard in a long time. When I was trying out guitars, I had it down to a taylor 810, Martin HD 35, and HD28. While the taylor did sound nice, I went with the HD 28. I like the darker sound. I'm mostly a flatpicker and the martin suites me well. The taylor was nice, but it seems like when you play a nice martin you will not buy anything else. I do believe that it does not matter what kind of guitar you buy as long as you love it. Martins are expensive, but if it is the guitar that suites you well than it is well worth it. And I know there is so many Taylor fans out there and they do make a great guitar, but I tell you taylor fans to check out a tour of the Martin factory and it just may change your mind about quailty guitars.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 12 Jun 07 - 01:44 AM

If you think Martin guitars are expensive take a look at Gibson mandolins, currently on eBay is a 1926 Gibson F5 Fern, price £48,328.24 or in the US $95,000.00

It's not even a new one.

eric

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 12 Jun 07 - 01:55 AM

"It's not even a new one," indeed. Nice one!

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Jun 07 - 02:11 AM

I hope you enjoy your Martin, Marco - best wishes. Whatever you do - now that you've paid for it, don't make the mistake I did. Persist with it. Get a good luthier to look at it straightaway, and sort out any minor problems that he can see with a good set up.

My Martin D35 would never stay in tune for long - I realise now that it was probably the holes in the bridge which were too tight, or the nut that was cut wrongly. Something really trivial that could easily be sorted out. In my naivety, I thought if I paid a lot for a guitar it would be perfect from the word go.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST,GUEST frodopogo
Date: 12 Jun 07 - 09:46 PM

I don't currently have a steel string acoustic.
When I had one, the best I had was a lawsuit Takamine.
Like people have mentioned about Martins, it took some
playing before it started to open up.
One day I played way too long for what I was used to (weekend warrior)
and injured the index finger. Now I max out at about a half hour
on a steel string acoustic... and so it's not worth having one.
I try them now and again in shops.
I make do for my own playing with a nylon string...
but I'm very sensitive to acoustic guitar tone,
especially as a member of the audience, or hearing others
play them in shops.

I can totally agree with the comments about the differences
in sound- to me, Taylors have a clarity and a bell like quality,
but lack warmth.
Martins sound much warmer and richer to me, but almost
too warm and rich- they lack clarity.
They also tire my bad finger out the quickest.
The acoustic whose tone I have enjoyed the most listening to
was actually a fairly old (20 year old?) Alvarez Yairi.
The sound was rich, and yet every note was clear and distinct.
However, I understand how some people preferring the sound
of Martins, Gibsons or Taylors is a matter of taste.
They are definitely not the same. And it's also a matter
of function- what genre, solo or ensemble, etc.

I also play electric guitar, since it is easier on my injured
finger. I tend to like Stratocasters, and there I am well
aware of this "iconic" aspect, which is a factor with Fender's
electrics, just as it is with Martin acoustics, and virtually
all Gibsons. Some have mentioned this. There is just something
about a Martin or Gibson acoustic (if of the classic designs)
that just "looks right" for certain genres of music. (those
that have a history stretching back to the 20's,30's,40's,and 50's)
This iconic quality is a big factor, especially in the resale market.
Many good guitars that don't have that iconic quality
lose a lot of value if you bought them new and try to resell them.
Some of that resale value is partly because you have ignorant
people who wouldn't know a good guitar from a bad one buying
Martins, Gibsons, and Fender electrics, just because their dad
or granddad had one. But if resale value is a factor,
then it might be worth it to look for a good Martin or Gibson.
I would say a new guitar's price is more reflective of the cost of the
labor and materials it took to build it,
where a used guitars price is based on its reputation...
and some of that is perhaps deserved, and some
has this irrational iconic quality.

Martin is the only American company whose quality stank in the '70s.
So did Fender and Harley-Davidson- the companies barely survived because of their trashed reputations. And all the American carmakers
were making absolute junk in the '70s... what was it about those times? Surprisingly, Fender's and Harleys are still American icons.

Anyway, this thread was an interesting read- lots of good points
mixed in with irrational iconic statements that remind me
of Ford-Chevy debates when I was a kid.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST,Guest: Ed
Date: 19 Nov 07 - 07:20 AM

They are expensive because somebody pays the asking price. Personally I don't care for Martin's and I've owned several. They are great, given the right strings, for those that like it loud and in your face. However, that's not my thing. I like kinder and sweeter tones. After 65 years of playing I've settled on a Gibson J-185. Not too big. Not too little. Round shoulders and narrow waist makes for great snuggling and ease in wrapping around her. If you play long hours regularly that makes all the difference in the world. Martins were all right for quickies.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST,belerecords
Date: 19 Nov 07 - 03:27 PM

Now I'm old and a little better off than I used to be I have bought both a Martin 00018gt and a taylor GS cedar top. They are like 2 great singers with very different voices both unique in their own ways. They were both bought in separate blind playing sessions in a great shop where the assistant passed me instruments without me really being able to notice the precise details of what they were until I'd played them for at least a good 15 minutes when I stopped to have a look. It took a lot more playing before making final decisions but I don't regret either purchase. In fact buying the Martin (the first one) is one of the best decisions of my musical life - it revolutionised my playing and gave me a confidence I'd never had before. The Martin is an ultra reliable workhorse that will do anything gig after gig after gig. The Taylor came 4 years later and is a bit more of a Diva. The Taylor GS does not sound like a Taylor - it has a massive bottom end and played with a 5 string capo is amazing! I will never ever part with either, both worth every penny and I wish I'd mortaged my life 20 years earlier to buy them.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: Lanfranc
Date: 05 Jan 08 - 06:25 PM

Given the weakness of the US Dollar and the current oversupply of Martin guitars, they appear to be in the process of becoming much less expensive!

On UK eBay there is currently a 1997 D-41 in near new condition going for less than GBP1000 (current RRP GBP2700) and this is about the only auctioned Martin (as opposed to "Buy it Now") that has any bids at all at the moment.

Does anyone else remember the song "Keep that wheel a'turning", where the hero "turned out more than his boss could sell"?

I rather fear that Chris Martin has saturated the market and we have reached the point where everyone who ever wanted a Martin has now got one (or, in my case, four!)!!!

Alan

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 06 Jan 08 - 04:25 PM

Why is the pope a catholic?

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: Stewart
Date: 06 Jan 08 - 05:04 PM

Expensive?

Heck, I only paid $99.95 for my Martin D-18,
new, in 1956!
And when the (slot-through) bridge flew off
(CRACK!!)
a month ago, I called Martin in Pennsylvania.
A real person answered the phone (amazing!).
After I explained my problem she connected me
directly with a service rep.
Because Martins (at least back then)
were guaranteed for life, I asked if they would
repair it under warranty.
He asked me if I had my warranty papers, and I replied,
"no, that was over 50 years ago."
After I gave him the serial number and mentioned
that I had had some warranty repair about 25 years ago,
after I had written Martin explaining I was the original owner,
he said, "no problem, just contact a certified Martin repair person
in the Seattle area and we will pay for the repair."
Done!
Best investment I ever made,
and NO, I'm not going to sell it
for any amount of money.

Cheers, S. in Seattle

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 06 Jan 08 - 11:26 PM

Just to clear a few things up, Martin mills many parts (necks) on CNCs and then assembles and finishes the guitars by hand. I think many mfgs do this, and they will tell you when asked. No biggie, you get more exacting tolerances that way, it's still hand assembled.

So why are some $900. and others over $3000.? It has to do with the grades of woods used and the amount of time spent hand-shaving braces for that "perfect" tone. Many more man-hours on a D-35 than a D-1. Then there's inlays! The inlay on a D-45 takes a bit more than an afternoon to complete!

My 2 cents on tone: The sturdiest and heaviest guitars seem to have that "reference sound" that fills a room with sweetness and clarity.
The fatter the neck, the better the sustain, period. (sorry taylor!)This about tone, NOT ease of play. Also, don't be a putz and put light strings on a jumbo or dreadnought! They are designed to have a certain tension on them for optimum tone and projection-use at least 13-56!
I have noticed that cheaper guitars, for whatever reason, cannot handle this tension. feh. Don't waste your money.
I play locally and regionally, and I have accepted that I can't find a GREAT-sounding acoustic for less than $2300.-$3000. here's what I use:
-(1) Gibson SJ200: Kapow! Fat neck, Big and loud! REFERENCE TONE!
-(2) Gibson J-185EC: fat, fat necks (think L-5 archtop), Great big frets, REFERENCE TONE!
-(1) Martin HD28: a tonal standard, had to try several out though, great capo guitar, REFERENCE TONE!
-(1)Guild F512 12 string: THE 12 string-REFERENCE TONE!
-(1)Lowden S25J-Nylon "jazz" neck, sturdy, smooth play, REFERENCE TONE!
These all sound great mic'ed with condensers from cheapo russian-made to expensive german-made(Neumann)ones; Any Shure or Akg, etc. dynamic mic is fine too. My point is that they sound good anywhere, anytime, under any conditions. They never, ever fail me and they ALWAYS sound great.

Back to Martin: I don't like the cheap ones and many of the new D-18 thru D-35s don't enthrall me, historic, vintage, whatever. Find a late model HD28-35, D41-42-45, but SHOP AROUND and be patient, you'll find one you like.

So, save your bucks, get a GREAT-sounding guitar whatever make. Shop around. The lifetime of pleasure outlasts the sting of the (well-worth-it)price tag. And DON'T buy a Taylor!(LOL)
goodnite, irene!

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST,James in Brooklyn, NY
Date: 09 May 08 - 03:28 PM

I own a Martin 000-28 Norman Blake and it is the best sounding Martin, (or any other acoustic guitar) I have EVERY played, let alone owned, IMHO.

Let's not forget a big issue regarding price- it's made in America. Not Chine, Korea or Canada. Also, as others have stated, it is the quality of the Tonewoods that are used and the man/woman hours for all the hand carving. And yes it is a bit about the "Martin" name but people, why does Martin have a name for Guitars? Because they build bloody fantastic ones, that's why.

Guitars, like a lot of things in life, are personal. What floats your boat may sink my boat to the bottom and vice versa. I have played over 20 Taylor Guitars and I would not pay $300 for ones they sell for 4 Grand! I put Taylor's on my lap and within seconds it is always-NO WAY! I am not right nor am I wrong. It just comes down to- what grooves you...........

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's unplugged Apprentice
Date: 09 May 08 - 03:52 PM

You want quality, you pay for quality, you want cheap. you get cheap. Martins are not cheap.

Charlotte R

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 09 May 08 - 09:31 PM

My Mrs Bought me a Martin Guitar end of 2007.
I am as pleased as punch with it and think it to be lovely to look at and to hear.
I would never have spent so much money on a guitar for me 'cos I dont think I will ever play well enough to make the most of wahat it can do.
Also I am not usualy a "Equipment snob" but I have to admit I am proud of me little guitar whenever I take it out and get a real player to have a go.
I thionk they are expensive 'cos they are good.
Same as taylor,Lowdon,etc.
Be happy and play proud

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: van lingle
Date: 10 May 08 - 11:12 AM

I try (with varying degrees of sucess) not to pay too much attention the name on the headstock but I did play a new Martin Norman Blake 000-28 model a few years back in Salt Lake City and found it to be both an awesome fingerpicker and flatpicker and that after playing a bunch of fine vintage instruments at Intermountain Banjo.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: glueman
Date: 10 May 08 - 12:38 PM

My guitar is a £30 Chinese dreadnought and I rather like the way it sounds. It has the fattest strings known to man and you can't play it for more than half an hour without sustaining an industrial injury. For those thirty minutes it makes a great noise, neither sweet nor beautiful but kinda phat and bluesy and weird. All the guitars mentioned would be a million times 'better' but none will make the sound that thing does.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST,mikey
Date: 17 May 08 - 07:26 AM

because they, along with gibson, have built the best instruments ever made

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST
Date: 17 May 08 - 08:01 AM

because they, along with Gibson, have built the biggest myth ever made.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 10 Sep 08 - 07:39 PM

I just stumbled upon this site and had fun reading much of this thread. It almost felt like guys arguing over whether blondes, brunettes or redheads were hotter. They can all be hot.

I used to have an old D28 (Brazilian rosewood) which I had to trade for a good Gibson ES 340 and Fender Pro Reverb...damn I wish I still had either of them. When I got a D 18 in 1972, everyone said...it's nice, but they don't make 'em like they used to. After a few years, it sounded like they used to make 'em. Last summer, I drove to Nazareth and they reglued all the struts, reset the neck, reglued the bridge and refretted it. They only charged me for the frets. It came out sounding new...but after a week or so, it sounded old again. It's a great guitar, but it's still recovering from the new glue. I plan to keep it. It's very sweet and well balanced.

However, to keep it from further wear and abuse, I just bought a DCX1E. It has a very very nice sound...full bass like rosewood, clear treble and sweet tone. My friend just got a 7 year old DCX1E and wow...sounds like an old Martin. I wasn't sure how they would age...but apparently, the top is what matters most.

Every piece of wood is unique. Every guitar top is unique. I've played some beautiful Taylors, Gibsons, Guilds and some luthier made guitars. They were all beautiful. Personally, I really like the feel and sound of my Martins, but I did have to take the action down...I play a lot of blues...not bluegrass. All the Martins I've seen improve greatly with playing and age, but some of the newer ones sound outstanding right out of the box. I just played a Tawny Satinwood my dealer just got in. I want to get a solid rosewood model, but the ones he has aren't as nice sounding to my ear as the X and plywood Martins. Over the years, I've played a bunch of Martins and they all sounded nice and consistent, but the older ones were best. I would just as soon have a Dillon or a Schulte but they are both retired and the ones they made are coveted and costly. (I do have a great Schulte Les Paul Custom and some of my friends have Dillons.)

Martin has turned out so many great guitars that they have a well deserved reputation. And their higher end ones have snob appeal. I don't care about pearl inlay and cosmetics as much as the feel and sound I like. Taylors seem a little more fragile here in this climate...I live a little over an hour from the Martin factory. I'd love to have a nice Taylor for my collection, but for my taste, Martins suit me a little more. But...my sister has an old mahogany top Guild that sounds far far better than it should...it's as nice as a Martin or a Taylor and some far better guitarists than I agree on that point.

Badmouthing a Taylor won't make your Martin better and vice versa.
Enjoy what you like.