Subject: RE: A Surfeit of Martins? From: Charmion Date: 25 Oct 10 - 11:30 AM I love my Martin. It sounds great, it handles well, and it came with a fine case lined with green plush that the cat enjoys as much as I enjoy the guitar. |
Subject: RE: A Surfeit of Martins? From: wysiwyg Date: 25 Oct 10 - 10:45 AM Well, according to our read of the tour of Martin Guitars on PCN, it sure looks like quality is still very much a large part of the material of which they are made.... ~Susan |
Subject: RE: A Surfeit of Martins? From: Little Hawk Date: 25 Oct 10 - 10:07 AM My favorite guitar ever is my Martin HD-28. But I've also played some wonderful Taylors, Collings, Larivees, Santa Cruz, G.W. Barry, etc.... What the heck, brand doesn't matter! Just find the specific guitar you like the best and play it. It could be any brand. |
Subject: RE: A Surfeit of Martins? From: GUEST,bigrickpa(registered,no cookies,please) Date: 25 Oct 10 - 08:30 AM it is the old ford vs. chevy,mercedes vs. bmw,etc. 'discussion". i just got my 2nd martin, an hd-28, and i love it! classic martin sound,good intonation(in spite of what some want to believe) the guitar i always wanted. taylors are a fine guitar, never played a bad one. tried new gibsons, all were, ahem,cough,cough, overpriced. collings, huss&dalton? for those prices, i'd better be able to drive or live in them. i don't play out too much anymore, haven't since we married and had kids. some things are more important. so i had to wait for a good guitar. through watching and waiting and saving, i was able to get this one for price i could afford. as far as the op, i understand his point but have to disagree. more good guitars should help the sound at sessions. isn't that a good thing? bigrickpa |
Subject: RE: A Surfeit of Martins? From: Brian May Date: 25 Oct 10 - 07:50 AM Well, I am now 60 and have had this name all my life. I don't play guitar on high buildings because I get vertigo, I don't have a doctorate in Astro Physics and I definitely don't know Anita Dobson. I don't play electric in any guise. That said, I AM actually high tone deaf from aircraft engines. So, am I real? My wife thinks so ;o) Is the Martin brand 'mass-produced' - yep, not surprising when you've been going 177 years. So are Mercedes and BMW amongst other cars, but generally, you still get what you pay for - high quality. I am NOT saying Martins are right for everyone, but they sure as hell are for me! |
Subject: RE: A Surfeit of Martins? From: mattkeen Date: 25 Oct 10 - 05:08 AM No - the real brian may is not deaf |
Subject: RE: A Surfeit of Martins? From: GUEST,MC Fat (at work) Date: 25 Oct 10 - 04:32 AM Is that last posting 'the real' Brian May ? |
Subject: RE: A Surfeit of Martins? From: Brian May Date: 24 Oct 10 - 03:02 PM My oldest Martin is a 2006 model - it sounds beautiful. My luthier looks after Martin Simpson's guitars, his opinion is the finest ones are those being made now. The thought that my three will only improve is bliss - the fact that they will all outlast me feels strange. All I know is that those who come to them next are in for a real treat, I just hope that they love them like I do. How I can love bits of wood, I don't know . . . suffice to say 'I do'. For those with a Martin, hail fellow. For those without, it took me 40 years, but they were worth waiting for? A surfeit ? Nope, I don't reckon, just greater disposable income and fulfilment of a dream. |
Subject: RE: A Surfeit of Martins? From: PoppaGator Date: 20 May 10 - 02:24 PM I was very pleased a couple of years ago, when my 1969 D-18 was appraised at about $2500. (It cost $300 back when it was new.) I was much less pleased to learn, not long afterwards, that a brand-new D-18 is priced at ~ you guessed it ~ about $2500. I had assumed that being "vintage" would add to an instrument's value. Not true, apparently. For those shopping for guitars, this means that you should be able to find high-quality, well-played-in used instruments at about the same price as newly manufactured guitars of the same (or similar) model. |
Subject: RE: A Surfeit of Martins? From: Little Hawk Date: 20 May 10 - 11:51 AM It's certainly true that there are any number of wonderful instruments out there which are being handmade by individual luthiers, and that many of them are superior to most of the high end mass-produced guitars made by companies like Taylor or Martin. I guess, though, it comes down to whatever you like best...and that's a very subjective business. I've always gone on 3 things: 1. sound 2. playability ("feel") 3. appearance Oh, any maybe one more thing: 4. accessories... That is, it counts quite a bit for me if a guitar also comes with a really good case, a really good onboard electronic pickup, a strap pin already installed, a battery that is easy to get at when you change it, warranty and info papers...all that sort of thing. When it comes to the accessories, I think Taylor comes out considerably ahead of most other mass-produced acoustics. Some other mass-produced guitars I have a very high opinion of are Collings, Santa Cruz, and Larrivee, but I've never owned any of them. I have owned several Martins, a Guild, a couple of Yamahas, a couple of Takamines, 2 Taylors, and 2 handmade guitars by luthiers, as well as a few other less expensive guitars under other brand names. They've all come and gone as the years went by except for the ones I have now: 1 Martin, 2 Taylors, and a Yamaha. I'm selling the Yamaha and one of the Taylors now, because I really don't feel I need more than 2 guitars. I've played some wonderful handmade guitars that friends owned. Bob Ardearn, for example, has a Beneteau, and it's great. It's made by a luthier in Ontario, Canada. I've owned 2 handmade guitars, and they were both quite good, but not as good as the Martin HD-28 and the Taylor Grand Concert I have now. When you get into the really high end of acoustic guitars, they're all great, but they all have subtle differences in sound and in othe respects. You just have to find one that "speaks" to you, that's all. It has to be love at first touch. ;-) |
Subject: RE: A Surfeit of Martins? From: alanabit Date: 20 May 10 - 09:55 AM I bought a mid range Martin C-18GTE last year. It has built in pre-amp, pick up, mike and tuner. I was very lucky to be able to afford a Martin of any level, because the US Dollar was spectacularly low last year (the only good thing that happened in the Bush era, I reckon). The unamplified sound is good, but no rival for my Fylde. Above all, it is an excellent on stage tool. If I coveted another guitar for its acoustic sound, I would go to a small instrument maker, who was just starting up, and get one of those superb instruments which many of them produce while they are still making their name. In short, I think Martins are excellent instruments and worth the money, but there are other instruments, which I could desire more. |
Subject: RE: A Surfeit of Martins? From: Backwoodsman Date: 20 May 10 - 09:46 AM "i like james taylor, and he plays a martin" Hope you were joking, Dude! (You knew he plays Olsons all along didn't you?) :-) |
Subject: RE: A Surfeit of Martins? From: Midchuck Date: 20 May 10 - 09:31 AM As a result of a recent sale, I own no Martins or Taylors. There's one Martin on the premises, but it's my wife's, and it's under a curse. Peter |
Subject: RE: A Surfeit of Martins? From: mattkeen Date: 20 May 10 - 05:03 AM Martin have made some lovely guitars obviously Some of the top end stuff can still be good But they are trading on their old heritage to a large extent IMO Both Martin and Taylor are mass produced instruments and there are 100's of better undependent luthiers now So if I was looking to buy a high quality model (read over £1500) I wouldn't buy a mass produced guitar |
Subject: RE: A Surfeit of Martins? From: olddude Date: 19 May 10 - 11:45 PM i like james taylor, and he plays a martin i will leave now sorry |
Subject: RE: A Surfeit of Martins? From: Little Hawk Date: 19 May 10 - 10:17 PM I have 2 favorite guitars out of all those I have played over the years. One is a Martin HD-28. The other is a Taylor Grand Concert with koa back and sides. They sound quite different from one another and they're both marvelous. I would happily buy another Martin or another Taylor anytime. |
Subject: RE: A Surfeit of Martins? From: GUEST,TJ in San Diego Date: 19 May 10 - 04:22 PM I was privileged to once own a Martin D-28, circa 1967. It had the great, booming sound you expect from a Martin Dreadnaught. I loved it dearly, but my wife and new baby twice as much. Hard times forced me to sell it. Times are far better, and have been for many years. My current love, however, is a Taylor. It gives me much the same sound quality but I find the fingerboard/neck easier to navigate, and with less pressure. It IS a subjective thing - my age and all, but works for me. Truth to tell, I spend more time with my Takamine classic these days and my son spends more time with the Taylor than I do. I wish I had the budget to experiment with Larrivee, Seagull, Guild, etc., etc., ad nauseum. My next purchase, though, may well be a Loriente classic. |
Subject: RE: A Surfeit of Martins? From: Don Firth Date: 19 May 10 - 02:47 PM A surfeit of Martins. Is that something like a herd of caribou, a skein of geese, a crash of rhinos, a murder of crows, etc? Don Firth |
Subject: RE: A Surfeit of Martins? From: Bert Date: 19 May 10 - 06:03 AM A surfeit of Martins keep the mosquitoes down. |
Subject: RE: A Surfeit of Martins? From: GUEST,Greycap Date: 17 Mar 06 - 07:54 AM Got three of 'em, love 'em. Also played Taylors that I loved. A good guitar is a good guitar and they come with all kinds of manufacturer's names and labels. p.s. A surfeit of Martins is an oxymoron. |
Subject: RE: A Surfeit of Martins? From: Big Al Whittle Date: 15 Mar 06 - 12:14 PM they put a nasty drug in the guitar case with every Martin. some people withstand exposure to one Martin and remain pleasant well balanced individuals....... however two Martins and its like Doctor Jekyll after he's drunk the liquid, they go around saying, that's not real folk music! not like me! I play a Martin! I'm alright and everyone else is crazy! |
Subject: RE: A Surfeit of Martins? From: Maryrrf Date: 15 Mar 06 - 11:49 AM I have a Martin. No it's not a signature one nor is it top of the line. I liked it, it was what I could afford, and I bought it. So that makes me a "wannabe bitch" or somebody that just collects guitars or worse? I don't collect guitars, either, by the way. I only have the one Martin and an Ovation which I bought used. Being fiberglass the Ovation is indestructable and I take it along when I will be playing at outdoor festivals where the instrument will be out in the weather for a long time in uncontrolled conditions. I just don't see why threads like this have to get so nasty. |
Subject: RE: A Surfeit of Martins? From: GUEST Date: 15 Mar 06 - 11:07 AM Santa Cruz and Huss and Dalton is where it's at - these are guitars! Yes, you can get a good Martin if you buy a signature one, as they actually pay attention to what they are doing with those. Martin and Taylor guitars are for wannabe bitches, or for people who just collect them. Guitars should be played - they are not for brand name masturbation. Titty Squeeze |
Subject: RE: A Surfeit of Martins? From: GUEST,Midchuck - Have They Kicked Me Out AGAIN? Date: 01 Mar 06 - 10:45 AM I've got two Collings (0002H and 002H) and two Martins (D18 and 00028). Frankly the Collings are in a totally different league altogether to the Martins. The Collings are better built, are built with superior materials and sound way better that the Martins. That said, Collings guitars cost more, so you get at least what you pay for. I also have a 0002H and, at the moment, three Martins, all lower-level. I concur with the above. I also have a Froggy Bottom H-12 (very close to the 000-2H in design). That guitar is to the Collings as Collings is to Martin. Much too good for me, but I ain't letting go of it. The Martins still get played a lot. In many situations, an instrument that doesn't represent too much of an investment, but still plays and sounds OK, is to be preferred over a high-end one. A gig in a noisy environment; a loud jam; leaving an instrument out on a stand in case you have a free five minutes, instead of shut up in the case... Peter. |
Subject: RE: A Surfeit of Martins? From: Wesley S Date: 01 Mar 06 - 09:10 AM Ian - Can I assume you've visited the Collings Forum ? That's a sweet combination of guitars. I had a 000H also but I decided the neck was a little wide for my fingers and used it as a tradein for my OM2HG { German spruce top }. That and my 1967 D-18 take care of just about any guitar needs I have. Since getting the OM2HG my Martin OM28V has been sitting in it's case. I need to sell it to finance my next mandolin. |
Subject: RE: A Surfeit of Martins? From: GUEST,ianlp59 Date: 01 Mar 06 - 08:45 AM I've got two Collings (0002H and 002H) and two Martins (D18 and 00028). Frankly the Collings are in a totally different league altogether to the Martins. The Collings are better built, are built with superior materials and sound way better that the Martins. That said, Collings guitars cost more, so you get at least what you pay for. Martin guitars are mass produced and rely on the name to sell them. Better Martins exist of course but they are either custom orders or so-called 'signature' models, endorsed by a particular artist, built in 'limited' numbers and sole at a huge price premium. Actually, there are a load of guitars out there which are just fabulous both from smaller makers and specialist individual luthiers. When I can afford it, I'll get Stephan Sobell to make me one of his Martin Simpson signature series guitars. (Best start doing the lottery). Anyway , great thread and glad to see how it stirs things up ! |
Subject: RE: A Surfeit of Martins? From: Cluin Date: 28 Feb 06 - 11:35 PM Yeah, and... they like to go for walks annnnnnnd... Ah, I got nothin' here. |
Subject: RE: A Surfeit of Martins? From: Peace Date: 28 Feb 06 - 10:51 PM True. They can both be a bit high strung. |
Subject: RE: A Surfeit of Martins? From: number 6 Date: 28 Feb 06 - 09:27 PM Like having a good dog. sIx |
Subject: RE: A Surfeit of Martins? From: Peace Date: 28 Feb 06 - 06:48 PM Fact is that a good guitar is a good guitar. |
Subject: RE: A Surfeit of Martins? From: Anonny Mouse Date: 28 Feb 06 - 06:41 PM Oh they all have their stable of stars--here's Taylor's NOT including studio musicians/artists (that would take another page): 311 Will Ackerman Bryan Adams Trace Adkins Aerosmith A.F.I. Air Supply Alabama Gregg Allman Ambrosia America Trey Anastasio Jann Arden Carolyn Arends Augustana Babyface Nenad Bach Bacon Brothers Barenaked Ladies Martin Barre Beach Boys Sam Beam (Iron & Wine) Beck David Beldock Adrian Belew John Berry Better Than Ezra Stephen Bishop Clint Black Mary Black Blackhawk Arthur Blanch blink-182 Blues Traveler Suzy Bogguss Karla Bonoff Edie Brickell Michelle Branch Garth Brooks Meredith Brooks Marc Broussard Jackson Browne Jimmy Buffett (Baby) Jeannie Burns (Burns Sisters) Kenny Burrell Jon Butcher Geezer Butler Ryan Cabrera Glen Campbell Jerry Cantrell Michael Card Brandi Carlile Mary Chapin Carpenter Paul Carrack Lionel Cartwright Cartwright Brothers John Cephas Gary Chapman Steven Curtis Chapman Cheap Trick Kenny Chesney Chicago Chip and Donnie (Enuff Z'nuff) Chronic Future Stanley Clarke (bass) Phil Cody Marc Cohn Lloyd Cole Collective Soul Judy Collins Shawn Colvin Billy Corgan The Corrs Course of Nature The Cranberries Dan Crary A.J. Croce David Crosby Christopher Cross Charlie Daniels Clay Davidson Gail Davies Billy Dean del Amitri Tom DeLonge (Blink 182) Iris DeMent Neil Diamond Chris Difford Dion Dixie Chicks Anne Dodson Dogwood Moon Mickey Dolenz Pat Donohue Ranger Doug (Baby) Roby Duke Holly Dunn Duran Duran Doyle Dykes Elliot Easton Duane Eddy (Baby) The Edge Dave Edmunds Don Edwards (Baby) Jonathan Edwards Everclear Ricky Fataar Ferron Tim Finn Tim Flannery Flea (bass) Fleetwood Mac Rosie Flores John Fogerty Foo Fighters Juan-Carlos Formell Peter Frampton Russ Freeman Friday's Child Richie Furay Beppe Gambetta Paul Gilbert Vince Gill David Gilmour Andrew Gold Golden Earring Goo Goo Dolls Graham Gouldman Amy Grant Pat Green Adie Grey Patty Griffin Grace Griffith Nanci Griffith Sammy Hagar Merle Haggard Hall & Oates Jim Hall Jimmy Eat World Johnny Hallyday Ali Handal Jack & Lon Hannah (Sons of the San Joaquin) Hanson Roy Harper Corey Harris David Ryan Harris Jerome Harris (bass) Ari Hest John Hiatt Faith Hill Lauryn Hill Chris Hillman Susanna Hoffs Hoobastank Hootie & The Blowfish Buck Howdy Billy Idol Tony Iommi Alan Jackson Mick Jagger Brett James Jars of Clay Jewel Buddy Jewell Carolyn Dawn Johnson Richard Leo Johnson Billy Jonas Rickie Lee Jones Laurence Juber Richard Julian Led Kaapana George Kahumoku Jr. Dennis Kamakahi Keith Kane (Vertical Horizon) Mary Karlzen Mike Keneally The Killers Steven King The Kinleys Pat Kirtley T.J. Klay (Western Flyer) Jennifer Knapp Mark Knopfler Peter Koppes (The Church) Ozzie Kotani Leo Kottke Lenny Kravitz Greg Lake La Ley k.d. lang Peter Lang Marit Larsen (M2M) Max Lasser Steve Laury Geddy Lee Julian Lennon Michael Lewis Lifehouse Alex Lifeson Lisa Loeb Kenny Loggins Patty Loveless Jeff Lynne Shelby Lynne Dougie MacLean Doug MacLeod Madonna Eric Mantel Maroon 5 Richard Marx Kathy Mattea Dave Matthews Zoe McCulloch Gerry McGee (Ventures) Tim McGraw Sarah McLachlan Zan McLeod Travis Meeks Tim Mensy Jim Messina Steve Miller Ronnie Montrose Moody Brothers Zak Morgan Alanis Morissette Franco Morone Jason Mraz Native Vibe Nelson Mike Ness Carrie Newcomer New St. George Nick Nguyen (Bonepony) Nils (Jiptner) Heather Nova Maura O'Connell Kristina Olsen Roland Orzabal (Tears for Fears) O-Town Gregory Page Pearl Jam Jeff Pevar (CPR) Liz Phair Kelly Joe Phelps Mike Pinder (Moody Blues) Steve Poltz The Pretenders Tristan Prettyman Prince Chris Proctor Gary Puckett Queensryche Joel Rafael Bonnie Raitt Toshi Reagon Harvey Reid Vernon Reid R.E.M. Tim Reynolds Marc Roberge (O.A.R.) The Roches Jim Rooney Eugene Ruffolo Kate Rusby Richie Sambora Joe Satriani Matt Scannell (Vertical Horizon) The Scorpions Darrell Scott Seal (Baby) Eve Selis Band Ron Sexsmith Maia Sharp Christopher Shaw Jules Shear Billy Sheehan Richard Shindell Michelle Shocked Carly Simon Mark Slaughter Michael W. Smith Stuart Smith Jill Sobule Something Corporate Sonic Youth Soraya J.D. Souther Tim Sparks Rick Springfield Billy Squier Dave Stamey James Lee Stanley Paul Stanley Michael Steele (The Bangles) Leni Stern (Baby) Steve Stevens Al Stewart John Stewart Stephen Stills Sting (bass) Doug Stone Story of the Year Larry Stewart Peter Stuart Styx Sum 41 Andy Summers Sweet Switchfoot James Taylor (Baby) Livingston Taylor Sally Taylor Jack Tempchin Tenacious D Terrell John Tesh Glenn Tilbrook Pam Tillis Michael Tomlinson Tonic Trapt Artie Traum Happy Traum Travis Travis Tritt Mark Tremonti Trixter Joe Lynn Turner Shania Twain Uncle Harry Steve Vai Suzanne Vega Julieta Venegas Wendy Waldman Billy Joe Walker, Jr. Clay Walker Joe Walsh Wayne Watson Paul Westerberg Roger Whittaker David Wilcox Jett Williams Lucinda Williams Robbie Williams Robin and Linda Williams Robin Williamson Nancy Wilson Victor Wooten (bass) Peter Yarrow Yellowcard Jesse Colin Young Neil Young "Civilians" Bobby Bonilla, former baseball pro Russell Branyan, Cincinnati Reds Jeff Bridges, actor (bass) Dana Carvey, actor/comedian David Charvet, actor Bill Clinton Kerry Collins, NFL Ronny Cox, actor Carson Daly, MTV Shannen Doherty, actress Minnie Driver, actress Bobbie Eakes, actress Mick Garris, TV/film writer-producer-director Tony Geary, actor Greg Giraldo, actor Shawn Green, L.A. Dodgers Michael Gogin, actor Oscar Hijuelos, author (Mambo Kings) John Hurt, actor Eric Idle, actor (Monty Python) Don Johnson, actor John Kerry, U.S. Senator Stephen King, author Christian Riese Lassen, artist Scott Linebrink, San Diego Padres Taryn Manning, actress Cheech Marin, actor Rob Morrow, actor Conan O'Brien, NBC Terry O'Quinn, actor (Lost) Jake Peavy, San Diego Padres Mike Piazza, N.Y. Mets Brad Pitt, actor Jeremy Piven, actor Tim Robbins, actor Rene Russo, actress Marla Sokoloff, actress Huston Street, Oakland A's Scott Tinley, triathlete Bill Todman, Jr., TV/film producer Robby Unser, race car driver Tim Wakefield, Boston Red Sox Robert James Waller, author (The Bridges of Madison County) Robb Webb, actor (the "voice" of 60 Minutes) Serena Williams, tennis pro Rusty Wilcoxen, producer/director (Grand Ole Opry Live) Steve Young, former San Francisco 49er Barry Zito, Oakland A |
Subject: RE: A Surfeit of Martins? From: GUEST Date: 28 Feb 06 - 06:34 PM just saw recording of John Denver playing on the "Performance Channel" using a good looking and fine sounding Taylor.. and with his money there would have been no limits to his prefered choice of guitar |
Subject: RE: A Surfeit of Martins? From: Cluin Date: 28 Feb 06 - 05:49 PM Yeah, those were the bad old days. |
Subject: RE: A Surfeit of Martins? From: Wesley S Date: 28 Feb 06 - 05:48 PM Everyone should just play whatever the heck they want to. It's your money - spend it however you like. The guitar police rarely bust down doors any more and force people to play guitars they can't stand. |
Subject: RE: A Surfeit of Martins? From: Cluin Date: 28 Feb 06 - 05:05 PM Prescription run out again? |
Subject: RE: A Surfeit of Martins? From: GUEST,Nitro Cellulosisicity Date: 28 Feb 06 - 04:43 PM MArtins are a placebo as the spiffy little scroll of their name and date will cause all sorts of people to go apolectic. They use the same computer driven shapers as Taylors or whoever. Stupid comparison-they are no more handbuilt than the glove compartment in my car including the hinges. What a joke. There are tons of better sounding, playing, value driven insturments out there. Any of you ever heard of Collings? Or Bourgeois? Or Santa Cruz? There's a guy in Watress Texas who'll built you a Gallagher Guitar that will blow away anything Martin has to offer. Go ask Doc Watson. Or half a dozen bluegrass icons. Ever play a Huss and Dalton? Mindblowing!! Small shop great guitars. SOrry but the days of Martin and the joke company Gibson which sells crap to discount chains being bIG names is over so get over it. Martin makes nice guitars but only if youre willing to plunk down the bucks for their "Special Models" named after celebs. They have so many signature models its a joke. Gibson???????????????? Check out Ebay for what THEY go for. Nobody serious takes Gibson seriously----they got hijacked by their bosses. Hey would I take a free Martin? Hey maybe,. Depends on the model of which there are currently 467-the website lists em all. Get yourself a Eric Clapton model and drool uncontrollably. Whens the Bobby Sherman sig series coming? Hey get yourself a BABYFACE or Jim Croce with a dime inlaid. Ooooooh---------------------------------- |
Subject: RE: A Surfeit of Martins? From: Bert Date: 28 Feb 06 - 03:08 AM Lanfranc, It's known as Peter's Placebo which states that "an ounce of image is worth a pound of performance" But don't worry, wait until summer and they'll keep all those mosquitoes down. |
Subject: RE: A Surfeit of Martins? From: Songster Bob Date: 27 Feb 06 - 11:42 PM Those Stellas that were made of 3/4" plywood were latter-day ones, made by Harmony. Even then, there were decent Harmony-Stellas, like 12-strings, along with those cheap Stellas. The Stella used by Leadbelly was an early one, made by the Stella company before it came under the ownership of Harmony. Those early Stellas were not really high-grade boxes, either, just better than the Harmony ones. I think Stella was owned at one time, perhaps from the git-go, but Oscar Schmidt (the makers of all those autoharps). There are new Leadbelly "Stellas" being made today, by the way. They are expensive, but man, oh man. They are the Del Arte 12-strings. The scale length is like 26.5" and they won't tune to modern pitch. Ed |
Subject: RE: A Surfeit of Martins? From: Peace Date: 27 Feb 06 - 07:02 PM LOL You da man, Cluin. I knew you'd understand. |
Subject: RE: A Surfeit of Martins? From: Cluin Date: 27 Feb 06 - 06:57 PM Poor Wal. Peace, All a true guitar tech needs is a pair of linesman's pliers and a framing hammer. |
Subject: RE: A Surfeit of Martins? From: Don Firth Date: 27 Feb 06 - 06:44 PM Well . . . Leadbelly played a Stella 12-string. Of course, he could crush walnuts with his bare hands. Don Firth |
Subject: RE: A Surfeit of Martins? From: Peace Date: 27 Feb 06 - 06:23 PM Oh yeah. Two of the tuning keys got bent. Straightened them out with a pair of plyers. |
Subject: RE: A Surfeit of Martins? From: Cluin Date: 27 Feb 06 - 06:19 PM I used Black Diamond flat-wounds, just like my Dad did on his Gibson. Yep, Stella WAS a tough old bird. |
Subject: RE: A Surfeit of Martins? From: Peace Date: 27 Feb 06 - 06:16 PM Mine was like that. I put flat-wound electric strings on it (acoustic guitar), sanded the surfaces and painted it with white enamel. One day I dropped it from the third floor balcony. Ran down to get it and assess the damage. The paint got scratched. Didn't hurt the sound one little bit. |
Subject: RE: A Surfeit of Martins? From: Cluin Date: 27 Feb 06 - 06:08 PM Had a Stella once, when I was a kid. It was my learner guitar. Action you could drive a truck under. It's amazing I stuck with it. |
Subject: RE: A Surfeit of Martins? From: Peace Date: 27 Feb 06 - 06:00 PM Y'all sound like people who are envious of the only REAL guitar: Stella. |
Subject: RE: A Surfeit of Martins? From: Cluin Date: 27 Feb 06 - 05:57 PM I was just wondering, MG, since you don't slot into any stereotype yourself, why do you assume everyone else does? |
Subject: RE: A Surfeit of Martins? From: Anonny Mouse Date: 27 Feb 06 - 04:06 PM Don-thanks for the info. As I said, pretty unfamiliar with the whole Classical/Flamenco genre of guitars. Quite an elightening presentation that must've taken awhile to write up. So, thanks. And yeah-sounds like you did alright, and have a great investment there. Hope you never have to sell it...but if ya did, you might be lookin' at a lot of $$$. |
Subject: RE: A Surfeit of Martins? From: Don Firth Date: 27 Feb 06 - 03:18 PM Interesting to note that there have been a number of "blind tests" of guitars, in which various makes of guitars are played behind a curtain, and the people out front (usually passionate advocates of one brand or another) are asked to rate the guitars in terms of sound, volume, balance between bass and treble, carrying power, sustain, etc. It's amusing and amazing the number of times the expensive, well-known, brand-name guitars wind up down the list and some fairly inexpensive "sushi-board" tops the vote. Takamine's seem to do quite well in these contests. They don't have the pizzazz of the "elite" brands like Martin, Gibson, Taylor, et al, but they do seem to have the mojo. Or so keen, knowledgeable ears, unprejudiced by labels, seem to indicate. Greetings, Anonny. Here's more than anyone could possibly want to know about flamenco guitars:— Up until recently, the main difference between a classic guitar and a flamenco guitar was in the woods used. Both classics and flamencos usually have a spruce soundboard, although within recent years, red cedar has been used a lot. Red cedar is an excellent tone wood, especially for classics. The back and sides of a top-quality classic guitar are usually made of rosewood. The back and sides of a traditional flamenco guitar are made of Spanish cypress (sort of yellow or light orange). Flamenco pretty much originated with the Andalusian gypsies. They were not particularly flush and generally couldn't afford expensive guitars. They bought instruments made of fairly cheap, easily accessible woods, such as Spanish cypress (locally available rather than imported, like Brazilian or Indian rosewood). Also, traditional flamenco guitars didn't have geared tuning machines; they had straight one-to-one ration push-pegs (a real bitch to tune!). Cheaper. With classic guitars, the luthier is trying for a rich, full, warm sound, with all of the characteristics mentioned in the first paragraph above: volume, balance between bass and treble, carrying power, sustain, etc., suitable for Bach, Sor, Tàrrega, Aquado, Villa-Lobos, all those guys. All these things are important to a flamenco guitarist as well, but the main traditional use of the flamenco guitar was to provide a strong rhythmic accompaniment for dancers. A percussive sound with lots of bite to it. Also, flamenco guitarists like a very low action—strings close to the fingerboard. So close, in fact, that they sometimes buzz against the frets. But this needs to be controllable. Buzz when you want it, not when you don't. Also flamenco guitarists almost always use a capo, or çejilla, at around the third, fourth, or fifth fret, to move the action up to where the frets are closer together, facilitating fast scales and other single note passages (picado). A good flamenco guitar has a real "Spanish accent." Using a flamenco guitar as a solo instrument in concerts, like Carlos Montoya, Sabicas, Mario Escudero, and others did is relatively recent. Also, luthiers who normally made only classic guitars, turning to making high-quality flamenco guitars to supply such people as Montoya, et al is also fairly recent (maybe the last seventy-five years or so). Within recent years, instead of a flamenco guitar being just a classic guitar made of cheap woods with the action adjusted low, luthiers have been refining certain aspects of making flamenco guitars. The soundboard is sanded a little thinner that on a classic, and oftentimes the body of a flamenco guitar is not quite as deep as that of a classic (distance between soundboard and back). Also, sometimes they set the neck at a minutely different angle in relation to the soundboard. Very recently (last thirty years or so) some luthiers have been making flamenco guitars in two flavors: flamenco blanca, made with cypress back and sides (sometimes maple or other light woods—is cypress no longer inexpensive?), and flamenco negro, made with rosewood or other dark colored, denser woods, generally giving the guitar a somewhat richer, less "bitey" tone. Other than low action and a few barely noticeable details of construction, there is very little difference between a classic and a flamenco negro guitar. Arcangel Fernandez, who made my flamenco guitar, turned out to be one of the top young luthiers in Madrid, which I didn't know at the time. He makes both classics and flamencos. Montoya and others were starting to use his flamenco guitars, which I also didn't know at the time. So I was just damned lucky to get my name in the pot before he became more famous and the price went up! My guitar has a spruce soundboard and a cypress back and sides. Fernandez gave me the option of geared tuning pegs or push-pegs. Flamenco "purists" insist on push-pegs, claiming that any metal, other than the frets, pollutes the pure flamenco tone, but that's a load of dingo's kidneys. I had another flamenco guitar with push-pegs, and it was a monster to keep in tune, so I wasn't going to mess with that. Geared tuning pegs for me. When I first got it (made to order and shipped air-freight from Madrid) in 1961, I was somewhat disappointed. It was absolutely gorgeous, but the tone sounded a bit mushy. But within a couple of weeks of playing, its voice opened up amazingly! And over the past forty-five years, it's just got better and better. Even though it has a real bite to it, it has a very warm tone, and it's loud! It can easily fill a concert hall. And has. Fernandez is still busy "makin' sawdust," but he's no longer taking orders. He figures it will take him ten years to fill the orders that he has now. That's why guitars like mine are worth as much as they are. Many of the current crop of flamenco guitarists lust after an "Arcangel," and are willing to shell out mucho bucks for an older one in good condition, which mine is. This guitar is an identical twin to mine. Clicky. Headstock, rosette, everything. This one is #156. Mine is a bit earlier: #135. I was one lucky sucker to get that guitar when I did! Don Firth |
Subject: RE: A Surfeit of Martins? From: Wesley S Date: 27 Feb 06 - 01:06 PM Terry - If by the C word you mean "Collings" guitars - yeah they spank everything being made currently today. Why - the last time I played my Collings Lester Flatt and Bill Monroe both sat up in their graves and said - in unison - "Damn - that's one fine geetar. I sure with those had been around while we were out on the road". Only modesty prevents me from telling y'all that story. But it's a good one. |
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