BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 29 Jul 14 - 10:55 AM

No Jews to blame = Greggie doesn't care at all.

The more dead Arabs, the happier Greggie and his fellow stooges are. As long as they can blame Israel.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 29 Jul 14 - 10:28 AM

Or not.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 29 Jul 14 - 10:28 AM

El-ARISH, Egypt (AP) — Militants in Egypt's northern Sinai fired mortar rounds late Sunday at a military post in the provincial capital of el-Arish, killing a soldier as well as seven civilians, including two children, in a nearby residential complex, security and hospital officials said.

A senior security official said the attack late Sunday hit the military post, killing one soldier. The military post is located near a compound of residential buildings in the al-Salam district. The main security headquarters and the local government offices are also located in the same area.

The official , who spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak to the media, said a supermarket, pharmacy and a residential building also were hit by mortar fire.

Samy Anwar, the head of el-Arish hospital, said seven civilians were killed in the attack, including a 10-year old girl and a 12-year old boy. He said 24 others were wounded, including an 11-year-old girl.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 29 Jul 14 - 10:26 AM

Also do let us know, Bullshot, when you return to the subject of this particular thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 29 Jul 14 - 10:19 AM

Cairo (AFP) - At least three civilians were killed and 22 people were injured late Sunday when a rocket slammed into the restive Sinai Peninsula, Egyptian medical sources said.

Witnesses told AFP the rocket fell outside a shop in the south of El-Arish, capital of north Sinai.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 29 Jul 14 - 10:16 AM

Only a total idiot would ignore that, and NOT try to get information from many sources AND LOOK AT IT WITH REGARDS TO IT'S BIAS.

Do let us know, Bullshot, when you begin to employ that dictum regarding Israel and its apologists in the media & elsewhere.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 29 Jul 14 - 10:15 AM

CAIRO (Reuters) - Four children were killed and five other people were injured when a rocket landed near their homes in Rafah, an Egyptian town in Sinai near the border with Gaza, security officials said on Saturday.

Three security sources said the rocket was likely fired by Islamist militants operating in the Sinai peninsula, which borders Israel and the Palestinian Gaza Strip.

The state news agency MENA said security officials were still investigating where the rocket had come from.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 29 Jul 14 - 10:14 AM

Cairo (AFP) - Four children were killed on Saturday in Egypt's Sinai Peninsula when a mortar round hit their home, in an apparent attack by militants targeting soldiers, security officials said.

The attack took place in the northern Sinai town of El-Joura, believed to be a bastion of Islamist militants who have killed scores of police and soldiers over the past year.

Four people were wounded in the blast, the officials said, adding that the children were all under 15 years old.

Soldiers and police had been combing the area a day after militants shot dead two senior army and police officers as they were driving home.

The military said on Saturday its forces had killed 12 militants the day before in several operations.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 29 Jul 14 - 10:09 AM

" A nine-year-old girl was killed when a rocket hit the ground outside a house in Egypt's Sinai Peninsula, in an apparent attack targeting soldiers, security officials said."


But no Israelis, so the "weeping stooges" don't care.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 29 Jul 14 - 10:08 AM

" Sad, twisted bigoted soul."


What a factual, evidence provided claim- NOT.

The BBC has a bias- Hamas has a bias, Israeli government spokesmen have a bias.



Only a total idiot would ignore that, and NOT try to get information from many sources AND LOOK AT IT WITH REGARDS TO IT'S BIAS.

That means GregF, Musket , and Jimmy boy.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 29 Jul 14 - 10:06 AM

anti-Israeli reporting

Well, T-Bird, I see you've joined the ranks of the idiots who confuse (on purpose?) "anti-Israel" with "anti-Semitic".

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 29 Jul 14 - 09:59 AM

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip (AP) — 9:35 am, Tuesday, July 29, 2014

A health official said at least 100 Palestinians were killed in Israeli airstrikes and tank shelling Tuesday, as Israel escalated its military campaign. The official, Ashraf al-Kidra, said the day's death toll was expected to rise.

Tuesday's strikes came after Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on Monday warned of a "prolonged" campaign against Hamas. It was not clear if this meant Israel has decided to go beyond the initial objectives of decimating Hamas' ability to fire rockets and demolishing the group's military tunnels under the Gaza-Israel border.

In Israel, government spokesman Mark Regev declined comment.

Gaza's power plant also was forced to shut down Tuesday after two tank shells hit one of three fuel tanks, said Jamal Dardasawi, a spokesman for Gaza's electricity distribution company. He said the damage would take months to repair.

Even before the shutdown, Gaza residents only had electricity for about three hours a day because fighting had damaged power lines.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Teribus
Date: 29 Jul 14 - 09:05 AM

Wriggling Musket, you're wriggling.

Balen Report, which the BBC commissioned was kept secret - that would not have been the case if it had shown the BBC to be unbiased as you claim.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Musket
Date: 29 Jul 14 - 08:33 AM

If the BBC do a story about rapists and shows them in a bad light, wannabe rapists might accuse the BBC of bias.

Same with right wing fascists. As Corporal Jones would say, the fuzzy wuzzys dont like it up 'em.

Braidedbeardedbruce meanwhile sits muttering the bullshit he feels gives him credibility. Sad, twisted bigoted soul. It must hurt when the nasty civilised world calls his heros terrorists. Another 60 innocent victims since my last post here.

All legal and above board, of course... I doubt The Hague court will agree when the perpetrators are brought to book for attempted genocide.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 29 Jul 14 - 08:21 AM

No Israelis here- better not mention it...


Cairo (AFP) - A nine-year-old girl was killed when a rocket hit the ground outside a house in Egypt's Sinai Peninsula, in an apparent attack targeting soldiers, security officials said.

The rocket was apparently targeting a security patrol that was passing through the area, security officials said.

Soldiers and police have been combing the area and the military says it has killed dozens of militants in north Sinai in several operations last week.

On Monday, seven militants were killed in north Sinai, including three who were shot dead by security forces, the army said.

It did not say how the other four militants were killed but said they were killed when they had gone to attack a resident in the border town of Rafah.

Five other militants were wounded in the Rafah incident.

Militant attacks have surged since the military overthrew Islamist president Mohamed Morsi and cracked down on his supporters from July 2013.

At least 1,400 people have been killed in the crackdown, mostly Islamist supporters of Morsi.

The militant attacks usually target security forces, but they have also led to civilian casualties.

Four children were killed on Saturday in the northern Sinai town of El-Joura, believed to be a bastion of militants who have killed scores of police and soldiers over the past year.

At least seven civilians and a soldier were also killed in a rocket attack earlier this month in the north Sinai capital El-Arish, when one rocket misfired and hit a crowded market place.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 29 Jul 14 - 07:49 AM

"Ad hominem attacks mean you're trying to distract by appealing to unrelated arguments ...
If the only card you have to play is name calling, your argument is bankrupt. Check and mate."


So GregF, Musket, and Jimmy boy stand convicted by their own posts.





Or is this ANOTHER case where it should only be applied to Jews???

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Jul 14 - 07:41 AM

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/bbc/10235967/BBC-is-biased-toward-the-left-study-finds.html

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Teribus
Date: 29 Jul 14 - 07:05 AM

"The BBC is unbiased by constitution."

Awww Musket how precious - So just because its charter says so that means automatically that it is so - laughable, old son, laughable.

Does view of yours hold good for all "constitutions Musket? Or just ones selected to suit whatever viewpoint you happen to be taking at any given time?

How about this one from Hamas:

"[Peace] initiatives, the so-called peaceful solutions, and the international conferences to resolve the Palestinian problem, are all contrary to the beliefs of the Islamic Resistance Movement. For renouncing any part of Palestine means renouncing part of the religion; the nationalism of the Islamic Resistance Movement is part of its faith, the movement educates its members to adhere to its principles and to raise the banner of Allah over their homeland as they fight their Jihad: "Allah is the all-powerful, but most people are not aware."

Well at least the actions of Hamas show us that they believe in that crap - dangerous really because in believing that they are only going to succeed in getting lots of people killed.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Jul 14 - 06:33 AM

A number of senior BBC officials and journalist have stated that there has long been a Left Wing bias at BBC.

Also, see this.
http://biasedbbc.org/blog/category/bbc-bias/

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Musket
Date: 29 Jul 14 - 04:15 AM

The BBC is unbiased by constitution. That Israel is criticised is possibly due to their aggressive nature, funded by pro Israeli US lobby.

The fools on this thread say The BBC is biased , The UN is biased, The EU is biased...

Oh, why doesn't the world listen to the objective sage comments of Terribleus, braidedbeardedbruce, poo bad and me too Keith?

By the way, it was The BBC who are questioning whether it was a mis guided rocket. For all your shit, anybody can read their news website.

For the purpose of this thread, bias seems to mean "make my prejudice look awkward and uncomfortable."

Well done Israel. The world is beginning to wake up at last. Even The White House is risking political funding by Kerry and now Obama showing how sickened they are with them.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Teribus
Date: 29 Jul 14 - 01:59 AM

"I have not been informed of anything by you or any of your fellow apologists for terrorists. I have however listened to the words of our Prime Minister, The US President, The UN general secretary and myriad reporters on the scene, especially the unbiased BBC." - Musket

"BBC News at 10 tonight.
No credence was given to the playground bomb being a Hamas rocket.
Israel was blatantly accused.
Unequivocal bias." – Keith A of Hertford

1: Ever heard of a little thing called the "Balen Report" Musket? It was a report of the findings of an independent internal investigation carried out at the behest of the BBC related to anti-Israeli reporting by the BBC. This investigation was paid for by the British public who pay the BBC Licence Fee. The findings of the report were kept secret by the BBC and protected from threat of disclosure under any challenge via the "Freedom of Information Act". Those two points reading between the lines strongly indicate that the "Balen Report" is damning in the extreme – Don't know about you Musket, but I, having contributed towards the cost of that investigation, would like to know what it says and also what remedial actions the BBC have taken to eliminate any bias from their reporting of any news item.

2: On the incident yesterday where the 10 children were killed in that playground, did anybody commenting on this thread see the coverage broadcast by the BBC? It was filmed in a hospital showed scenes that we have seen before (Library footage most likely) but it contained two sections in which injured children were "interviewed" (I say "interviewed" because no questions were asked the child "victims" merely made statements). The one I found interesting was the one by the eight year-old boy who had been "wounded" in the back by shrapnel in that incident.

Hey Musket when you have been wandering around all those hospitals that you have rescued have you ever encountered any patients who have received any invasive injury to their backs? How mobile are they during the first 24 hours? Yet here is this eight year old, bright eyed and showing absolutely no sign or shock, pain, bruising or blood (They were at great pains to show the dressing {singular}) trotting out the lines that Hamas wanted the world to hear. At the end of the "interview" the camera panned away to show another of the supposed victims heavily bandaged on the left arm and right leg walking with an adult being led by his bandaged arm and walking normally keeping pace with the adult – possibly being led to another "western journalist" to trot out "his story". I have no doubt at all that children were killed and injured in that incident, but neither child shown could have been anywhere near it. Another little nuanced clue from the reporting of the incident, the BBC reporter referred to the "rocket" that hit the playground. Normally when reporting on strikes by the IDF they mention "missiles", "bombs", "artillery shells", "mortars" - NOT "rockets".

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 09:45 PM

Guess Obama and Kerry have joines the ranks of your anti-Semites, eh, Boo?

US fuming over Israeli criticism of Kerry
Associated Press
By MATTHEW LEE and JULIE PACE 4 hours ago

WASHINGTON (AP) — The Obama administration pushed back strongly Monday at a torrent of Israeli criticism over Secretary of State John Kerry's latest bid to secure a cease-fire with Hamas, accusing some in Israel of launching a "misinformation campaign" against the top American diplomat.

"It's simply not the way partners and allies treat each other," State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki said.

Her comments were echoed by the White House, where National Security Adviser Susan Rice said the U.S. was "dismayed" by mischaracterizations of Kerry's efforts. Israeli media reports have cast Kerry as seeking a cease-fire that is more favorable to Hamas and being dismissive of key Israeli concerns.

The coordinated pushback in Washington came amid growing U.S. frustration with Israel as Palestinian civilian casualties mount amid a sustained Israeli air and ground war in the Gaza Strip.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 07:19 PM

the vile name calling that has been going on here at Mudcat

Most, if not all, of which is being done by yourself, Bullshot and FookWit.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 07:17 PM

JERUSALEM – IDF forces are continuing to operate inside the Gaza Strip, their main objective are still the terror tunnels. A senior IDF officer was quoted yesterday saying that Israel is in possession of all of the attack tunnels that Hamas dug from Gaza to Israel. A few more days are needed in order to dispose of the remaining tunnels, he said. The IDF blew up two more tunnels in the course of the last 24 hours. "The longer we stay on the ground, the more we learn about the extent of the tunnels and the route they were built in."

IDF Chief of Staff Lieutenant General entered Gaza yesterday to appraise the IDF's achievements up-close and discuss further plans with field commanders. Aware of the mounting international pressure to end the operation immediately and unconditionally, Gantz stated: "It's going to take some time, but every minute here matters." He further pointed out that the IDF was working with full-force to destroy the leftover tunnels.

Egyptian Border Guards, in coordination with the armed forces, destroyed 13 tunnels in Sinai on Saturday evening, said Armed Forces spokesman Brigadier Mohamed Samir in a statement. Authorities also seized a pickup truck that allegedly transferred 68 packs of agricultural pesticides that had Hebrew writing on it.

The IDF's operations, together, and possibly in coordination with the Egyptians' actions, are effectively cutting Hamas off from any real possibility to replenish their rocket arsenal, which is down by 50% according to IDF figures. An Israeli woman was moderately wounded yesterday afternoon by a rocket fired from the Gaza Strip. Over the past 24 hours more than 71 rockets were fired from Gaza towards Israel. At least 50 rockets hit Israel. 9 rockets were intercepted by the Iron Dome missile defense system. The IDF struck over 40 terror targets in the Gaza Strip yesterday and 3865 terror targets in total since the beginning of the operation. 32 terror tunnels were uncovered by IDF forces since July 17th.

Since the beginning of Operation Protective Edge more than 2,500 rockets have been fired from Gaza at Israel.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 07:03 PM

Greg - get help for your antisemitism.....soon!

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 07:00 PM

I find it very telling that in light of all the vile name calling that has been going on here at Mudcat, specifically by those who are anti Israel, SRS should choose to call me out for applying a definition
as drafted by the EUMC and reaffirmed by the Ottawa Protocol on Combating Antisemitism to comments that clearly fall within the parameters of the definition. Like I said, I've got her number.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 06:53 PM

Boo- get help for your monomaniac fixation on anti-Semitism..

Soon.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 06:43 PM

I see that the antisemitic frenzy is not confined to the pages of Mudcat.

"These demonstrators are marching in the heart of Berlin shouting these slogans, in front of the police. Shouting 'Jews are pigs' is an incitement: Why isn't the Germany police taking the details of these people shouting in an aggressive way 'Death to the Jews'?" asked Gelbart.

Hebrew University Prof. Robert Wistrich, an expert on anti-Semitism, said, "We have entered a new, very difficult era in all of Europe." He said there is "a bit" of awareness in some governments, noting France's aggressive stance against anti-Semitism in any form, from top government officials on down, "but we see it doesn't make much of a difference — though it is important."

Wistrich noted that years of "one-sided" anti-Israel media reports have led to an image of the Jewish state that is far removed from reality. Additionally, the constellation of extremists on the political far right and far left, along with jihadist immigrants, have created a new anti-Semitic climate in Europe, he said.

There is no longer a facade of anti-Zionist expressions not being anti-Semitic, said Wistrich. "You just need to hear the rhetoric to believe. We need a much deeper discussion; we're just at the outer layer of the problem."

Read more: Talk of feared new Holocaust at Knesset meeting on European anti-Semitism | The Times of Israel http://www.timesofisrael.com/talk-of-feared-new-holocaust-at-knesset-meeting-on-european-anti-semitism/#ixzz38o1OxmWA

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 06:31 PM

If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck and I'm going to call that duck out whenever I see it whether you like it or not.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 05:32 PM

I think this deserves to be posted here as well, for easy reference when dealing with PP, Boo, & FWK. I hope SRS doesn't object.


From: Stilly River Sage - PM
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 04:47 PM

Bobad people can be opposed to what Israel does as a nation, what the Israeli government does as a body, and even opposed to what individual Jewish individuals do in the name of their religion (such as kidnapping and killing children or building more settlements) without being an anti-semite.

When your case (the one you, Bobad, make against others here at mudcat) is so poor that the only answer you have in a dispute is to call the other party names, then you have no argument. Ad hominem attacks mean you're trying to distract by appealing to unrelated arguments (does calling someone "antisemite" mean they have to stop the first discussion and go on the defensive regarding their own attitudes towards Jews? No. It doesn't.)

If the only card you have to play is name calling, your argument is bankrupt. Check and mate.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 05:27 PM

Unless its accurate information, FarkWut. Get a clue.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 05:24 PM

BBC News at 10 tonight.
No credence was given to the playground bomb being a Hamas rocket.
Israel was blatantly accused.
Unequivocal bias.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 03:23 PM

He gives me a good laugh anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 03:21 PM

Greggie boy was never very good at comprehension...

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 03:18 PM

"So Boo, as far as you are concerned, the BBC is out to "eliminate Jews".

Hamas and Hezbollah and Iran etc.......you idiot.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 03:07 PM

So Boo, as far as you are concerned, the BBC is out to "eliminate Jews".

Get help. Soon.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 02:29 PM

In 1144 came the first report in history of the blood libel against Jews; it came up in the case of William of Norwich (1144).[5] Julius finds that the English were endlessly imaginative in inventing anti-Semitic allegations. He says that England became the "principal promoter, and indeed in some sense the inventor of literary anti-Semitism."[6] Julius argues that blood libel is the key, because it incorporates the themes that Jews are malevolent, constantly conspiring against Christians, powerful, and merciless. Variations include stories about Jews poisoning wells, twisting minds, and buying and selling Christian souls and bodies.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 02:24 PM

Persecution of England's Jews could be brutal; recorded are deadly massacres at London[10] and York[11] during the crusades in 1189 and 1190.

On November 17, 1278, all Jews of England, believed to have numbered around 3,000, were arrested on suspicion of coin clipping and counterfeiting, and all Jewish homes in England were searched. At the time, coin clipping was a widespread practice, which both Jews and Christians were involved in, and a financial crisis resulted, and according to one contemporary source, the practice reduced the currency's value to half of its face value. In 1275, coin clipping was made a capital offence, and in 1278, raids on suspected coin clippers were carried out. According to the Bury Chronicle, "All Jews in England of whatever condition, age or sex were unexpectedly seized … and sent for imprisonment to various castles throughout England. While they were thus imprisoned, the innermost recesses of their houses were ransacked." Some 680 were detained in the Tower of London. More than 300 are believed to have been executed in 1279. Those who could afford to buy a pardon and had a patron at the royal court escaped punishment.[12]

Edward I increasingly showed anti-Semitism as in 1280 he granted a right to levy a toll on the rivulet bridge at Brentford "for the passage of goods over it, with a special tax at the rate of 1d. each for Jews and Jewesses on horse, 0.5d. each on foot from which all other travellers were exempt".[13] This antipathy eventually culminated in his legislating for the expulsion of all Jews from the country in 1290. Most were only allowed to take what they could carry.[citation needed] A small number of Jews favoured by the king were permitted to sell their properties first. Almost all evidence of a Jewish presence in England would have been wiped out if it had not been for the efforts of one monk, Gregory of Huntingdon, who purchased all the Jewish texts he could to begin translating them.[5]

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 02:16 PM

"Where will it end?"

It won't, that's why the Jews need their own country and why they must protect themselves from those who want to eliminate them.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 02:04 PM

So now the Beeb is a hotbed of anti-Semitism, Boo? Where will it end?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 02:01 PM

It was in the Wash Post- but I doubt if the Beeb had it…might send the wrong message.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 01:56 PM

IDF sets up field hospital for wounded Gazans.........you definitely didn't see this on the news.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 01:48 PM

"They might strenuously deny it, but Amnesty and HRW have systemic biases against Israel."

UNRWA can now be added to that list as they have now been clearly shown to be supporting Hamas.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 01:43 PM

"Donatella Rovera, an Amnesty field investigator, wrote an interesting article about the challenges of fact finding in war situations.

One of her main points is that eyewitnesses are often unreliable. For example:

In Gaza, Lebanon, Libya, Syria, and other places I interviewed civilians who described what they thought were artillery or bomb strikes being launched by far away government forces and striking near their homes – whereas in reality the loud bangs and tremors were caused by mortars or rockets being launched by opposition fighters from their positions nearby. For the untrained ear it is virtually impossible to distinguish between incoming and outgoing fire, and all the more so for those who find themselves close to the frontlines.

Another factor she mentions:

Even if they disregard it, investigators must be alert to the fact that disinformation and misinformation can contribute to shaping the perception of events, the narrative surrounding the events, and the behaviour of people who take it in good faith and internalize it, including victims, witnesses, and others potential sources.

Here Rovera is referring to lies that spread quickly and then become widely believed – including by "unbiased" NGOs – before anyone has a chance to investigate. How many times have we seen that?
She gives a specific example from Gaza:

Fear can lead victims and witnesses to withhold evidence or give deliberately erroneous accounts of incidents. In Gaza, I received partial or inaccurate information by relatives of civilians accidentally killed in accidental explosions or by rockets launched by Palestinian armed groups towards Israel that had malfunctioned and of civilians killed by Israeli strikes on nearby Palestinian armed groups' positions. When confronted with other evidence obtained separately, some said they feared reprisals by the armed groups.

Meaning that "eyewitnesses" will often claim that there was no terrorist activity in the area of an airstrike and Israel wantonly and indiscriminately killed people for no reason.

This gets wholly believed and parroted by the UN and other NGOs. The Goldstone Report has many such examples.

Unfortunately, in many cases the NGOs themselves are part of the problem. Rovera admits, a little elliptically:

Conflict situations create highly politicized and polarized environments, which may affect even individuals and organizations with a proven track record of credible and objective work. Players and interested parties go to extraordinary lengths to manipulate or manufacture "evidence" for both internal and external consumption.

It is a shame that Rovera didn't include Amnesty International itself as being guilty of this, and she ascribes the lack of objectivity almost only to fake evidence that is created by one side rather than to the ideological desire to find war crimes when none exist.

They might strenuously deny it, but Amnesty and HRW have systemic biases against Israel. This article, while a step in the right direction, only scratches the surface of how NGOs themselves contribute to the culture of lies in order to issue their reports and maintain their funding without doing basic fact checks.

And while Rovera notes that some "eyewitnesses" act out of fear, she doesn't go far enough. At least in the territories, the lies about Israel are repeated so often that the witnesses will often tell Western reporters and researchers what they expect to hear rather than what happened. This isn't necessarily out of fear; it is part of their culture to ensure that Israel is always blamed no matter what. It saturates their media. I cannot count how many times "eyewitness" accounts were found to be complete fiction, and fear didn't enter into the equation. However, many of the "witnesses" happen to work for the largest employer in the West Bank – the PA – which lies constantly.

Not to mention that many anti-Israel activists that will knowingly repeat the most outrageous lies to further their own agenda.

Lets hope that this article can at least open up the discussion of how inaccurate much of the reporting and research is about Israel, even from NGOs that pretend to be objective."

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 01:37 PM

"hatred towards the Palestinian people."


** I ** have no hatred towards the Palestinian people. I think that Palestinians in general should be treated as well if not better than the Jewish Arabs driven out of their homes in 1948.

I DO hate Hamas, and those groups that have declared they want to kill Jews and destroy Israel.

You have a problem with that???

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 01:36 PM

The sensational story was too good to pass up. Israel allegedly shelled a United Nation school being used as a refugee shelter, massacring at least sixteen people who were trying to evacuate. Even worse, the media reported that Israel had the exact coordinates of the school, knew that civilians were sheltering there, and there was no combat nearby.

In other words, the media indicted the IDF for a war crime. Even though there were no credible sources, the media assumed that information they were given was true.

What Really Happened at that Gazan UN School?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 01:19 PM

"....especially the unbiased BBC."

Ha,ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha...............ha!

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Musket
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 01:15 PM

Braidedbeardedbruce has as much evidence that I support Hamas as I have about his sexual perversions.

In fact less. I have posted views that certainly do not support the aims of Hamas any more than the aims of the Israeli militants.

I have not been informed of anything by you or any of your fellow apologists for terrorists. I have however listened to the words of our Prime Minister, The US President, The UN general secretary and myriad reporters on the scene, especially the unbiased BBC.

Not one seems to concur with your propaganda and hatred towards the Palestinian people.

If you want me to change my stance, I'd have to have my conscience surgically removed, learn how to lie and lower my standing in society. Err.. no fucking thanks.

It's alright, nobody is listening to your hate. or at least, nobody important.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 01:09 PM

Several Western journalists currently working in Gaza have been harassed and threatened by Hamas for documenting cases of the terrorist group's involvement of civilians in warfare against Israel, Israeli officials said, expressing outrage that some in the international media apparently allow themselves to be intimidated and do not report on such incidents.

The Times of Israel confirmed several incidents in which journalists were questioned and threatened. These included cases involving photographers who had taken pictures of Hamas operatives in compromising circumstances — gunmen preparing to shoot rockets from within civilian structures, and/or fighting in civilian clothing — and who were then approached by Hamas men, bullied and had their equipment taken away. Another case involving a French reporter was initially reported by the journalist involved, but the account was subsequently removed from the Internet.

Read more: Hamas threatening journalists in Gaza who expose abuse of civilians | The Times of Israel http://www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-threatening-journalists-in-gaza-who-expose-abuse-of-civilians/#ixzz38mfPt1Nh

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 12:57 PM

"Call me a Hamas stooge once more I and I start posting details of your interest in small boys."


1. I stop calling you what you are when you change your posts and actions.

2. I warned you not to judge the rest of us by YOUR sexual tastes.

3. I note you continue to attack those posting rather than bring up FACTS to support your posts. This is a clear indication you have nothing of value to contribute to the thread.


As long as you repeat Hamas propaganda AFTER YOU HAVE BEEN INFORMED that there is some (major) doubt as to it's veracity you ARE an HAMAS STOOGE.