BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 06 Jun 14 - 05:30 AM

And I would add these to M's example:

* Applying double standards by requiring of it behaviour not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation.

* Singling Israel out for selective condemnation and opprobrium - let alone denying its right to exist or seeking its destruction - is discriminatory and hateful, and not saying so is dishonest.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 06 Jun 14 - 04:40 AM

Here is an extract from the declaration I refer to. It can be checked on Wikipedia.

'Examples of the ways in which antisemitism manifests itself with regard to the State of Israel taking into account the overall context could include:.....

       Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis.'

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 06 Jun 14 - 04:22 AM

Somebody above (or perhaps it was on the simultaneous Islamic Radical thread) ,whom I have indicated my intention of refusing to converse with directly as a result, became hysterically abusive of me for having denounced Jim as 'antisemitic'. I have long conversed with Jim on various topics; and among other things I persuaded him some years ago to agree to desist from using the word "Nazi" in relation to Israel; pointing out that such a procedure had been explicitly named as an example of antisemitism by the declaration of the European Monitoring Centre on Racism and Xenophobia (now Fundamental Rights Agency), who published a working definition of antisemitism, in 2005. He promised as a result that he would never again indulge in such a usage.

But in contravention of this promise, he continues to do so -- see his last post. I accordingly call this in evidence of my justification in continuing to make this specific accusation against him, so long as he persists in doing this in defiance of an official declaration by a recognised authority specifically appointed for the purpose of such definition by the European Union.

Please note, all whom it may concern, that I will desist from calling Jim "antisemitic" just as soon as he again forswears this habit of his of denouncing Israel as a "Nazi" entity; and then sticks to such a resolution, as he has failed to do on several recent occasions.

Until then, I say again, with the authority of the Fundamental Rights Agency behind me: he is, I much regret to say, an antisemite; and it is no use trying to denounce me for drawing attention to this incontrovertible fact.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Jun 14 - 04:16 AM

that trade in no indication of SUPPORT for any of their policies

Yes it is.
We have sanctions against Russia and Syria for their criminal activity.

No-one needs little Israel's trade but all democracies welcome it because there is no reason not to.
They are not war criminals or aggressors.
Governments work on facts not the propaganda and lies that gullible dupes like you lap up.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Jun 14 - 02:58 AM

"We can not ostracise them all."
This is not about ostracising Israel - your claim has been that Israel had had the "SUPPORT" of democratic countries, yet the only evidence you have produced for that stupid claim is that they haven't been ostracised.
The west trades with whoever it suits them to do so - that trade in no indication of SUPPORT for any of their policies - Israel included.
You have no case, and your desperate insistence of that claim, without any other example of support, blasts your stupid case out of the water.
No single western nation has spoken out in support of Israel's actions at Shatila/Sabra, in support of the atrocities committed during the incursions, the use of chemicals and heavy artillery on civilians, the attempts to starve the Palestinians into submission by a vicious blockade, the Berlin-like wall, the Nazi-like humiliation, the treatment of the Bedouins, the setting up of an apartheid state, ongoing expansionism..... all have been universally condemned by War Crimes and Human rights observers and the world press.
Up to now, the only practical support for Israel has been through the US using its veto on over 100 occasions to protect Israel from the world condemnation it has received, now it is unlikely to be used again the Yanks have joined Israel's critics in condemning Israel's behaviour, particularly following their having sabotaged yet another round of peace talks.
Israel has no support for its terrorism - in the past, the only support it ever has had is one of silence - now that has gone - you have has the list of examples of the support Israel now has - none.
Your argument was a non-starter anyway - the logic of it is that if Britain and the West has warm and friendly relations with countries like China and Saudi Arabia, that is an indication of support for those policies - utter crap.
You want to show that the democratic countries support Israel - give examples of that support - not their silence.
By the way - I use the word "democratic" extremely loosely.
I watched a TV documentary on Wednesday night dealing with new evidence that has come to light from British documents, showing the use of torture in Northern Ireland in the 1970s.
It seems that techniques first developed by the army in Kenya were refined and used widely in the North then, having been admitted to, were later used in Iraq, highlighted in the Abu Graib revelations, and have been put to use again in Afghanistan and Guantanamo - now there's a "democratic" British export to be proud of - torture!!
I take it we'll here no more of Brucie's lying accusations of my opposing the State of Israel
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 06 Jun 14 - 02:12 AM

Not at all. It's just a bit pointless when nothing of value or relevance is debated. Throwing in quotes from partisan commentators doesn't enrich it either.

When you are a lone voice there's often a reason for it. Irrational bollocks mostly.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Jun 14 - 02:54 PM

Are you saying we should never discuss long standing issues then Musket.
What a strange idea!

And, are you saying it is wrong to argue against a "lone voice" because, when I have been in that position, you relish being among the "circling hyenas."

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Musket
Date: 05 Jun 14 - 11:20 AM

Sadly, this is what happens when the only voice of reason is reduced to each of his words being analysed by wicked people who have no idea, no concept and nothing to say about The Middle East.

Jim is a man who I have disagreed with on many subjects and I am on record as saying he could start an argument in an empty room. However..

just because he is a lone voice on this pointless thread doesn't make the general thrust of his comments wrong. The hyenas circling him, looking at each other smugly because they think their distortions have put him down are rather sickening to enlightened minds.

Everybody is going to sort out the Middle East eh? Why now? Nobody managed it over the last 2,000 years although if there was ever a chance, we fucked it up when we invented both Israel and Palestine and kept quiet when both sides claimed divine right rather than government civil servants who drew the boundaries.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Jun 14 - 09:16 AM

Every Arab country, and most other undemocratic states, are "guilty of atrocities against its own people."

We can not ostracise them all.
War crimes are different.

No-one needs to trade with tiny Israel.
They choose to have warm relations because they are a good people.
Unlike you, well informed people and governments and know that all the propaganda is just that.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Jun 14 - 08:46 AM

"Israel is an invisibly tiny sliver of land with no natural resources."
Israel is a wealthy state with world wide political and financial support, including, up to now, that of the United States.
It is a nuclear power, so its terrorist behaviour is a world-wide threat not just a Middle Eastern one.
China is guilty of atrocities against its own people - it is a friend and business party of 'the democratic world' including, and especially Britain.
America had been guilty of War and crimes - everybody trades with America.
Britain traded with Syria, despite over a decade of human rights abuses
After the Arab Spring protests began Britain continued to trade with Syrian even to the extent of weapons and riot control equipment and later, chemicals that could be used in weapon manufacture.
Briatn was selling arms to Gadaffi and supplying arms to the rebels
Weeks after the outbreak of Arab Spring, David Cameron hosted a massive arms fair aimed at several extremist states, including Bahrain.
Business is business - your alibi for Israel is blown.
"....have no right to existence according to Jim."
Whistling in the wind I realise, but can you point out where I have EVER AT ANY TIME OR IN ANY FORM suggested that any state has the right to exist
Your entire case has been based on lies, as most examples of fanaticism are - this is typical of those lies.
I will continue to post my views on the other site and will not be censored by either of you blue-pencil pratts
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Jun 14 - 07:49 AM

BBC today Jim.
"Leaders of the G7 industrial nations meeting in Brussels say they are prepared to impose further sanctions on Russia over its actions in Ukraine."

You see Jim, democratic states are quite willing to seriously "rock the business boat" for illegal behaviour.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 05 Jun 14 - 07:40 AM

It IS a war crime, in violation of the Geneva Conventions, to launch anti-personnel rockets at civilian areas as has been supported and rewarded by both the West Bank and Gaza territories.

So the Palestinian Territories are terrorist states, illegitimate, and have no right to existence according to Jim.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 05 Jun 14 - 06:50 AM

I don't want any 'authority' on this forum, thank you just the same, Jim. Why it would probably spoil all the fun I am having laughing haha at all your hysterical (& hysterically hilarious) posts.

But be a good boy, now, or you shall not go to the ☯


❤❦·☤~Tink~☤·❦❤

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Jun 14 - 04:52 AM

Decent governments do not have to accuse Israel of anything - it is a recorded fact that they are a Terrorist State, and to accuse them of anything would rock the business boat

Do not be silly Jim.
Israel is an invisibly tiny sliver of land with no natural resources.
Orange juice is not a strategic commodity.
If it was guilty of war crimes no government would need to have anything to do with it.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Jun 14 - 04:46 AM

States that brutally repress their own people are ubiquitous and there are just too many to single out.
All of Israel's neighbours, especially Hamas who massacred demonstrators in Gaza, for a start.

War crimes are quite a different thing.
If anyone attacked a school with WP it would be an unequivocal war crime.
The event you refer to is not regarded as such by any responsible, democratic government.
Try not to be so naive and gullible Jim.

Again you ignore the context of the fighting in 47-48 and ignore all massacres of Jews.
Why Jim?
It makes you look bad.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Jun 14 - 04:45 AM

"Jim, you never make any reference to Jews being massacred at that time."
I was the one who produced links to the full article for the first time several years ago - this was a reply to your lying claim that Israel has never committed massacres - it looks as it is - you are a defender of war crimes.
Decent governments do not have to accuse Israel of anything - it is a recorded fact that they are a Terrorist State, and to accuse them of anything would rock the business boat
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Jun 14 - 04:36 AM

"Tiananmen Square was an internal atrocity all too common outside of democracies like Israel and Western countries."
So we trade with States who commit atrocities that are "all too common" but not ones who just commit "rare" atrocities - how do you tell the difference between the two?
As I said on the thread this discussion belongs on, your defence of Israel, "if any of those countries believed Israel responsible they would not have warm and friendly relations with such a criminal state" is now blown clean out of the water.
As I said, and you have just repeated, "business is business" whether the customer commits atrocities or not - now indication whatever of the world's clearly stated condemnation of Israel's 'terrorist state' status, which is beyond dispute.
Massacres of civilians, such as Deir Yassin and Lidice, are still considered war crimes and atrocities - it is no excuse that they were happening on both sides, all it means is no better or worse than those you have been attacking on "the other side"
Israel is a war criminal and always has been.
To deny the WP attacks on schools and hospitals is about as disgusting as it gets.
HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH

PHOSPHORUS AND EXPERIMENTAL WEAPONS

HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH AGAIN

It was fully reported at the time and photographs and eye witess accounts were showing the horrific results.
You have just been given more of the same of attacks on UN schools in Gaza - I assume you are going to continue to deny the use of chemicals - it appears to be what you do best.
At least David Irving makes an effort with his Holocaust denial - yours is just denial in the face of evidence.
And please don't tell me which thread to make my postings to again - neither you nor Tinkerbell have any authority on this forum, and if either of you ever did it would be time for us all to go somewhere else - the end of free speech as we know it, so to speak.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Jun 14 - 04:19 AM

"Sixty-two Jews were murdered by Arabs in the first week after the UN partition plan was passed, and by May 15, 1948, a total of 1,256 Jews had been killed, most of them civilians. These deaths were caused by Arab militias, gangs, terrorists and army units which attacked every place of Jewish inhabitation in Palestine.
       The attacks succeeded in placing Jerusalem under siege and eventually cutting off its water supply. All Jewish villages in the Negev were attacked, and Jews had to go about the country in convoys. In every major city where Jews and Arabs lived in mixed neighborhoods the Jewish areas came under attack. This was true in Haifa's Hadar Hacarmel as well as Jerusalem's Old City.
       Massacres were not uncommon. THIRTY-NINE Jews were killed by Arab rioters at Haifa's oil refinery on December 30, 1947. On January 16, 1948, 35 Jews were killed trying to reach Gush Etzion. On February 22, 44 Jews were murdered in a bombing on Jerusalem's Rehov Ben-Yehuda. And on February 29, 23 Jews were killed all across Palestine, eight of them at the Hayotzek iron foundry. Thirty-five Jews were murdered during the Mount Scopus convoy massacre on April 13. And 127 Jews were massacred at Kfar Etzion on May 15, 1948, after 30 others had died defending the Etzion Bloc."Frantzman, Seth. Ethnic Cleansing in Palestine?. Jerusalem Post. Aug 16, 2007.

Jim, you never make any reference to Jews being massacred at that time.
You must see how that looks.

You still have not produced an example of decent government accusing Israel of war crimes.
That is because none do.
Right?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Jun 14 - 03:44 PM

Tiananmen Square was an internal atrocity all too common outside of democracies like Israel and Western countries.
If we refused to trade with all governments who ever brutally repressed their own people Israel would be about the only non-Western state we could trade with.

Deir Yassin occurred during the fighting between irregular forces when atrocities were committed by both sides.

There was no WP attack on schools.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Jun 14 - 03:18 PM

A START

PHOSPHORUS ATTACKS ON SCHOOLS

OPERATION CAST LEAD

DEIR YASSIN

All lies of course, just like Tiananmen Square (1,400 claimed dead) wasn't a massacre, otherwise Britain would never trade with any of them
Pratt!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Jun 14 - 02:20 PM

"Never been a single one! massacre of Palestinians) "
Atrocity denier

Give us a short list then Jim.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 04 Jun 14 - 12:40 PM

... and the next thread is called "Jokes in the worst possible taste"

There is a God!

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 04 Jun 14 - 12:35 PM

Let's hear it for~~~~~~~

C A R R Y O N C A R R O L L !!!!!!!

"He's all right!"

"Who's all right?"

~~~~~~~JJJIIIMMM   CCCAAARRROOOLLL~~~~~~~

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Jun 14 - 12:29 PM

Nice to see your friend sticking up for the extremist states Mike - you've brought him up well.
Perhaps you'd better hurry back to the other sire with your blue pencil - tye're all at it, though some of them are actually saying things youi'd want to hear, so maybe not eh?
Sorry your censorship effort didn't work
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 04 Jun 14 - 12:21 PM

And when I said "Championship", of course I meant top of the Premiership. A bit of a silliness, the way they call Div II the "Championship" these days, isn't it? ~ leads to misunderstandings & ambiguities like that...

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 04 Jun 14 - 12:16 PM

J Carroll: "I will not be dictated to by a couple of extremist morons as to where I make my postings where I wish - if necessary, on both friends (eh? - "threads"??? or what)"

.,.
No, I won't either. So here are a few interests, no more irrelevant to this thread than the enormities of Israel to the Radical Islam one that Carroll goes on obsessing about all over like King Charles' Head, that I feel like talking about; and Carroll nor no-one else can stop me; coz he said so, innit? ···

Isn't it a pity that Inspector Japp & Captain Hastings haven't been in the recent episodes of 'Poirot'? Though David Suchet is always worth seeing, isn't he? & the incomparable Zoe Wanamaker as Ariadne Oliver is always a bit of compensation isn't she?

Well done Arsenal winning the FA Cup. Let's hope they can pull it off again next year. And maybe win the double with the Championship too! Wouldn't you agree, Jim?

Emma did me a pork steak in Chicken Tonight Honey & Mustard sauce for dinner last night. It isn't only nice with chicken, you know, in spite of the name.

I have been rereading Julian Fellowes' "Snobs". Very good. Sort of "Downton Abbey" country. Well worth reading, if you haven't.

Just been watching Halep & Kuznetsova at the Roland Garros Paris Open. Bit of a dull match. Rain had delayed play, so still waiting for Andy Murray to come on ...................................

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Jun 14 - 11:22 AM

EU do not trade with Syria, and none of the others have done anything comparable to massacring refugees or using chemical weapons on civilians.

Neither has Israel.
It would be a pariah state among democracies.
It is not.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Jun 14 - 11:13 AM

"if any of those countries believed Israel responsible they would not have warm and friendly relations with such a criminal state.
""Today, however, China and Britain enjoy a friendly, cooperative, and close relationship"
ARMS TO EXTREMISTS

SAUDI ARABIA

Bahrain

CHINA

TURKEY

SYRIA


"Only gullible fools believe it all."
ISRAELI WAY OF DEALING WITH CRITICISM

If you wish to continue this discussion on this thread, feel free.
I will not be dictated to by a couple of extremist morons as to where I make my postings where I wish - if necessary, on both friends
"Double the pleasure, double the fun" as the old ad used to go.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 04 Jun 14 - 09:30 AM

Those evil Jews give medical treatment to the relatives of those sworn to their destruction:

JERUSALEM — Israel said Tuesday it allowed the mother-in-law of Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh into the country for medical treatment.

Maj. Guy Inbar, an Israeli spokesman, said the 68-year-old woman was allowed to enter from the Gaza Strip on Monday to receive cancer treatment at a Jerusalem hospital.

A relative in Gaza confirmed she was in Israel, with Israel Radio reporting she was being treated at the Augusta Victoria Hospital in East Jerusalem, by the Mount of Olives.

The announcement followed Haniyeh's resignation as prime minister Monday, and the formation of a new Palestinian unity government. Hamas has ruled Gaza the past seven years.

While Israel considers Hamas a terrorist group, Gaza residents — even those with ties to Hamas — are authorized to cross the border on a humanitarian basis.

Last November, Haniyeh's granddaughter received treatment in Israel for an infection in her digestive tract. She later died in Gaza

Read more: Haniyeh's mother-in-law treated in Israel | The Times of Israel http://www.timesofisrael.com/haniyehs-mother-in-law-treated-in-israel/#ixzz33g1eTa7Q
Follow us: @timesofisrael on Twitter | timesofisrael on Facebook

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Jun 14 - 09:15 AM

You have produced none
You have claimed support for Israeli's role in the Sabra/Shatila massace - none whatever.

Of course I have.
If any of those countries believed Israel responsible they would not have warm and friendly relations with such a criminal state.

It really is all propaganda Jim.
Only gullible fools believe it all.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Jun 14 - 08:28 AM

"I have produced several."
You have produced none
You have claimed support for Israeli's role in the Sabra/Shatila massace - none whatever.
The blockade, the incursions, the use of chemical weapons, the Nazi-like humiliation of Palestinians, expansionism, apartheid, ethnic cleansing of Bedouins - please link us to examples of support of any of these.
Britain's greatest trading partner is China- does that imply support for her human rights record?
"Today, however, China and Britain enjoy a friendly, cooperative, and close relationship. China and Britain have established a full strategic partnership and close cooperation"
The US has vetoed over a 100 UN resolutions condemning Israel's behaviour - it has made it clear it will no longer do so
AN 'ANTI-SEMITIC' JEW'S VIEW OF ISRAEL
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Jun 14 - 07:38 AM

Kewith
You have persistently claimed that Israel's behaviour meets with the approval of the demacratic states, yet you have failed to produce one single item of that "approval".

I have produced several.
There would not be warm, friendly relations if they did not approve.

Now you please produce evidence that any democratic and libertarian state calls Israel criminal or apartheid.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 03 Jun 14 - 11:39 AM

An interview with 16 year old Mohammad Zoabi who describes himself as an Israeli, Zionist, Arab, Muslim.

Zoabi explained that it is not easy to be a Muslim Zionist. He said that "the bad sides" of Arab culture have taken control of the society, that he has been attacked several times for his views, and that some people call him a traitor, or even "a Jew." He added with a smile that he cannot understand how people could see the word "Jew" as an insult, when the Jews only recently emerged from a situation in which they were being ruthlessly slaughtered, to one in which they are "one of the smartest and strongest nations in the world."

Cue the name calling.

Mohammad Zoabi: YouTube

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 31 May 14 - 09:50 AM

Ah yes. Dexter Van Zile, Christian Media Analyst (whatever that is supposed to be) for CAMERA.

The Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting in America, or CAMERA, is an American non-profit known for its pro-Israel media monitoring and advocacy.

In 2008 CAMERA launched a campaign to alter Wikipedia articles to support the Israeli side of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict. The campaign suggested that pro-Israeli editors should pretend to be interested in other topics until elected as administrators. Once administrators they were to misuse their administrative powers to suppress pro-Palestinian editors and support pro-Israel editors.

"We've long considered him anti-Israel", CAMERA's founder Andrea Levin has commented of Peter Jennings.

CAMERA's report, "A Record of Bias: National Public Radio's Coverage of the Arab-Israeli Conflict: September 26 – November 26, 2000" (2001) asserted that National Public Radio's "coverage of the Arab-Israeli conflict has long been marred by a striking anti-Israel tilt, with severe bias, error and lack of balance commonplace."

In her film review of Munich (2005), posted on the official website of CAMERA, Andrea Levin states that the film (a collaboration of director Steven Spielberg and playwright–screenwriter Tony Kushner) promotes "its thesis of Israeli culpability" and that "Israel's action battling its adversaries is cast as aberrant, bloody and counterproductive."

CAMERA published a critique of Christiane Amanpour's CNN documentary series God's Warriors, calling it "one of the most grossly distorted programs to appear on mainstream American television", "false in its basic premise", and "a perfect illustration of classical propaganda techniques. Amanpour has responded that the documentary is not meant to compare religions, but rather to show "that each faith has their committed and fervent believers, and we're showing how each of those are active in the political sphere in today's world.

In October 2007, CAMERA organized a conference entitled "Israel's Jewish Defamers," in which a panel of discussants accused selected Jewish critics of Israel, as well as one of Israel's leading newspapers, Haaretz, of distortions and falsehoods about Israel. CAMERA director Andrea Levin described the Jewish critics — who included Princeton University's Richard Falk, writer Norman Finkelstein, New York Review of Books contributor Henry Siegman, former New York Times columnist Anthony Lewis, Trent University professor Michael Neumann, and Tikkun magazine publisher Michael Lerner — of being guilty of "demonstrably false and baseless defaming of Israel, wildly distorted out of context accusations against Israel."

    In a 2003 profile of the organization in the Boston Globe, Mark Jurkowitz observed:    "To its supporters, CAMERA is figuratively - and perhaps literally - doing God's work, battling insidious anti-Israeli bias in the media. But its detractors see CAMERA as a myopic and vindictive special interest group trying to muscle its views into media coverage. ... To many in the media CAMERA is ... an advocacy group trying to impose its pro-Israeli views on mainstream journalism."


And etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 31 May 14 - 09:28 AM

"Palestinian propagandists are doing everything they can to manufacture an icon of outrage that shows the world just how terrible the Palestinians are suffering and how evil the Israelis are.

For the most part, their efforts have come up short.

Instead of showing the world just how bad things are for people living in the West Bank, they are revealing the intellectual and moral bankruptcy of Palestinian elites. They are also highlighting the antisemitic craziness that has gripped Palestinian society."

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"The notion that the Palestinians are the hobbits of the Middle East whose suffering represents a great insuperable wound on humanity's conscience is simply no longer tenable.

Another factor is that a growing number of people are starting to realize that Palestinian suffering is largely self-inflicted."

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"But nowhere is this harvest of hate more evident than in Palestinian society itself. In lying to the world about the cause of their suffering, Palestinian elites are lying to themselves and the people they lead.

The anti-Israel and anti-Jewish messaging that Palestinian elites have promoted to Westerners for the past few decades reveals that the inhabitants of the West Bank and Gaza Strip are a long way off from establishing and maintaining a democracy, making peace with Israel and coming to grips with the modern world.

They live in a demon-haunted world of their own making. The end result will be disaster for the Palestinians and possibly for the rest of the world."

Palestinian Propagandists are Losing Their Touch

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 31 May 14 - 07:44 AM

Israel fascilitated the massacre - proven beyond doubt - disputed by Israel, denied by the holocaust deniers.
"Yes, where are they goose-stepping Jim?"
The militaristic expansionist incursions speak for themselves.
This study expresses the concerns build up a military society in Israel.
ISRAELI MILTARISM

Some years ago a non-political collector friend attended a ballad conference in Jerusalem - he wrote of the constant presence of what he described as "strutting uniformed peacocks" on the streets arrogantly searching anybody they randomly chose - he described it as militaristic 20 years ago.
We still have his letter, which ends "Beam me up Scotty".
PROPERTY CONFISCATION
Israeli Soldier testimonies
CHECKPOINTS

OCCUPYING HOMES

CROWD CONTROL

SEARCHING FOR WEAPONS

ETHNIC CLEANSING

Jackbooting it is then
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 31 May 14 - 06:24 AM

Yes, where are they goose-stepping Jim?
They once held vast swathes of the Middle-East taken in repelling attempts to overrun Israel, but hardly any remains.

Others are goose-stepping around in Syria, Hezbollah, ISIS, Iran, but no Israelis.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 31 May 14 - 06:00 AM

"the Israelis goose-step all over the middle east..."

There goes Dr.Strangelove's arm again....he's just unable to control it.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 31 May 14 - 05:56 AM

It's good to know that some doctors are doing what they are very well paid to do.

And who pays those Israeli doctors to freely treat their enemies, or rather people from places at war with Israel, and what a rare and wonderful example of humanitarianism.
Small cheer?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 31 May 14 - 03:53 AM

Israelis did not kill any in Sabra or Shatila.
All the massacres there were by Arabs.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 31 May 14 - 03:45 AM

"And if it weren't for the PLO and Hamas those numbers would be close to zero."
You mean if they had all stepped aside and let the Israelis goose-step all over the middle east without offering resistance - "Come out with your hands up and you will not be harmed" - just like the the occupants of Sabra Shatila weren't harmed.
It's all happened before Boo Boo.
The State of Israel came into being to the sound of hand grenades being thrown into occupied houses in order to clear the way for israel's Brave New World.
The Palestinian opposition to Israel expansionism is no different in any way to the fight put up by the Jewish people against British colonialism, only this time it is the Israelis who are the militaristic thugs.   
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 May 14 - 07:17 PM

So you're saying, are you, that the PLO and/or Hamas pulled the triggers? How would you like me to say (which I won't, because, unlike you, I refuse to descend) that, had it not been for George Bush, 3000 Americans would not have died on 9/11? There are none so blind as those who will not see... :-(

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 30 May 14 - 03:55 PM

"At least 1,109 Israelis and 6,862 Palestinians have died in Palestine since 2000; 1,519 of them have beenPalestinian children."

And if it weren't for the PLO and Hamas those numbers would be close to zero.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 May 14 - 01:19 PM

At least 1,109 Israelis and 6,862 Palestinians have died in Palestine since 2000; 1,519 of them have beenPalestinian children.
It's good to know that some doctors are doing what they are very well paid to do.
STATISTICS
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 30 May 14 - 10:35 AM

MONTREAL — Palestinian doctor Wafiq Othman told a Montreal audience he went to Israel with great trepidation, unsure he could ever trust his Israeli colleagues. - See more at: http://www.cjnews.com/canada/palestinian-md-lauds-israel-saving-children#sthash.andn4qZD.dpuf

Today, five Palestinians are training at SACH, which since its founding in 1996, has treated – free of charge – more than 3,400 underprivileged children from 48 countries, over half of them in the Palestinian territories and other neighbouring countries including Iraq, Jordan and Syria, 30 per cent in Africa and the rest in mostly developing countries around the globe.

He remembers being at the operation of a Palestinian child from Gaza during Israel's conflict with Hamas. "A journalist was there, and he asked the surgeon, Dr. [Lior] Sasson [SACH lead surgeon], if he didn't think he might be treating a Palestinian who would come back one day and kill Israeli children?

"Dr. Sasson said, 'No, I think these children will come back and do peace between Israelis and Palestinians.'" Othman knew then he had come to the right place.

Palestinian MD lauds Israel for saving children

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 23 May 14 - 10:57 AM

"Zahar also disclosed that Hamas is planning to take advantage of the unity deal to move its terror attacks against Israel to the West Bank. Worse, he declared that after its men set foot in the West Bank, Hamas will target Palestinians who "collaborate" with Israel. "Who said that those who are conducting security coordination with Israel would remain forever?" he asked, referring to the Fatah-dominated security forces in the West Bank.

Zahar, who also said that Hamas would pursue the fight against Israel until the "liberation of all Palestine," is in fact sending a warning message to the Western-funded Palestinian Authority security forces in the West Bank. "We believe in what was mentioned in the Quran: that Palestine, all of Palestine, will be liberated," he added. "The Israeli entity should expect more from Hamas after our rockets reached Tel Aviv."

Hamas: We'll Use Unity Accord To Move Terrorism To West Bank

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Apr 14 - 01:30 PM

YO BRUCE!!! WAKE UP!!

Linker [ Your 09 Apr 14 - 09:35 AM post] is saying that the Isreali Gov't gang is being just as big dickheads, & posibly bigger, as the Palestinians. Do you actually agree with that?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Apr 14 - 01:04 PM

"I am saying that all opinions - which is what is being offered here - are to be judged by the individual who offers them "
So - what's wrong with that?
I would never have asked scum like Mosely or Le Pen their opinion on the Jews - I know what they would have said.
The facts speak for themselves - Israel has made clear from day one that the only terms they will accept are those that allow them to continue building settlements on disputed territories
The harassment has not ceased since the beginning and numerous acts of agression have brought the talks to a halt.
The stage has been reached now that even Israel's most influential ally, the U.S. feels itself unable to support - and have become "Antisemitic" (according to those Antisemites who attribute Israeli terrorist policy to "the Jews" - a move in the right direction at last
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 10 Apr 14 - 12:45 PM

To quote Jim:

"I am saying that all opinions - which is what is being offered here - are to be judged by the individual who offers them "

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Stringsinger
Date: 10 Apr 14 - 12:42 PM

Palestinians, marginalized, oppressed, ignored, and undergoing incredible suffering have every right to object to Israel's "terms" for a vacuous peace process.

The idea that they want to replace Israel with a land of their own is garbage.

What they want is parity, equality with Israel and a right to live as free people, the evidence being that the majority of Palestinians are non-violent resisters, only a handful of rocket launchers compared to the mega-weapons assault of Israel.

Syria, Saudi Arabia and Israel are forms of dictatorships that reject any compromise that
suggest a democratic solution or genuine peace process.