BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Feb 14 - 01:28 PM

Every country has a few fanatical racists.
Why, in your first sentence, single out Israel?

A better solution for Israel is to become a true democracy, perhaps socialist democracy, wherein Zionists and Palestinians would have equal polity,

I do not know what a "socialist democracy" is, but Israel is already a "true democracy" where all, Jew or Arab, have equal rights.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Stringsinger
Date: 16 Feb 14 - 12:14 PM

There are those in the Zionist community who have gone on record in the media by stating that they are better than their Palestinian neighbors and hence have a right to dominate them by whatever means. This is analogous to the white racism of South Africa, a Christian orientation that made the same claim about African people and turned them into second or third class citizens.

A two-state solution would work unless it became "bantustans" for Palestinians propagating the warped Zionist "master race" notion.

A better solution for Israel is to become a true democracy, perhaps socialist democracy, wherein Zionists and Palestinians would have equal polity, but as long as there are some Zionists who, through Christian fundamentalist support, pour cold water on this idea saying that it is "impossible', a faith-based notion on their part, chances for Mid-East peace is actually impossible.

The US is not an honest broker in peace negotiations which are dominated by figures who adhere to Christian doctrine and biblical prophecy about Jewish people.


Zionist expansionism and denying the "right of return" is a dead-end street for Israel.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 15 Feb 14 - 05:41 PM

"A majority of Israelis and Palestinians, 63 percent and 53%, respectively, support a two-state solution, according to a survey released on Tuesday." - 1st of Jan 2014

http://www.geneva-accord.org/mainmenu/hebrew-u-survey-finds-most-israelis-and-palestinians-support-two-state-solution

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 13 Feb 14 - 08:53 AM

"Inequality is a fact of life here, and this, too, is visible in the garbage—particularly in the uncollected garbage on the streets of some Arab neighborhoods, which also tend to lack sidewalks and parks. But in recent years life in Jerusalem has been getting not worse but slowly, markedly better. New infrastructure projects like a light-rail line serving Jewish and Arab neighborhoods and a bike and pedestrian path running a few miles through other Jewish and Arab neighborhoods are leading to more mixing in public spaces. State-funded health care in Arab neighborhoods is improving. One hears more Arabic than ever spoken in predominantly Jewish commercial areas. More Arab residents are requesting Israeli citizenship and taking the Israeli high-school matriculation exams. Jews and Arabs are not friendly with each other, as a rule, but there are many thousands of interactions between them each day, and nearly all of them are uneventful.

What we have here is not peace but peacefulness—a budding, breakable, imperfect coexistence obvious to anyone sensitive to the pulse of the city. It reflects a broader phenomenon in Israel: According to a poll published last month by Ha'aretz, when Arab Israelis were asked if they were "generally satisfied" with their lives in Israel, 79 percent said yes. That is not an uncomplicated "yes," but neither is that statistic insignificant."

Tablet

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Feb 14 - 03:22 AM

Piss off Keith - your case is dead in the water (Israel just made sure of that) and all the denials in the world won't remove what you have written and have had presented back to you over and over and over.... again
Learn to live with it - it will come back to bite your bum as long as you continue to dominate this forum with your bigotry and racism if I have anything to do with it.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 09 Feb 14 - 01:56 AM

Jim, it would be "utterly farcical" to promote a view and then deny it.
I don't.
I defend what I do say and rubbish your claims that I have entirely different views to those I express.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 08 Feb 14 - 05:08 PM

Meet Anett Haskia, Israeli Arab and proud Zionist: Israel is freedom!

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Feb 14 - 04:14 PM

"Try to be rational for a moment Jim."
No Keith - you be rational
You have posted every single opinion and more on that list - at least once - half of them you have confirmed over the last few months, several on this and other threads currently running
On the number of occasioned I have pasted one in front of you you have abandoned your denial and confirmed that you stick top your opinion - an utterly farcical example being your denial (as here) of your supporting supplying Assad with riot control equipment - you then went off and dug up an obscure Australian pacifists site to confirm that yor claim was valid because they (supposedly) agreed with you PLEASE STOP MAKING A FOOL OF YOURSELF BY DENYING EASILY RETRIEVABLE STATEMENTS YOU HAVE MADE - AND PLEASE STOP ATTEMPTING TO IMPLICATE A FRIEND WHO HAS SHOWN YOU NOTHING BUT KINDNESS AND SUPPORT FOR YOUR EVIL RANTINGS WHEN THE REST OF US KNOW YOU TO BE AN UTTER SHIT - IT'S DISGUSTING AND DEGRADING TO BOTH OF YOU
You really are the pits
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Feb 14 - 01:57 PM

Jim, it was me who told you that the democratic process in Israel, unique in that region, had chosen not to instigate the plan.
As you know and often tell us, Israel takes no notice of outside opinion and especially not the UN with its built in anti-Israel bias.

Re. my views, if I had ever expressed views like that, a man like Michael would have nothing to do with me.
I would have nothing to do with me!

Try to be rational for a moment Jim.
Why would I post all those things and then deny them?
Why would anyone?

I defend everything I post, but I have never posted that shit you always accuse me of when a thread goes against you.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Feb 14 - 11:48 AM

"Jim, if I had expressed views like that, a man like Michael would have nothing to do with me."
Which of these to you claim you not expressed and I'll try to jog your memory
Always happy to oblige
"I defend everything I post"
Course you do and I'm delighted that you do - all helps with the CV
I hope Mike is as happy at being implicated in your disgusting statements as I am disgusted that you should attempt to use him in the way you are
"I have never posted the shit you always accuse me of when a thread goes against you."
and you always make the same claim - you have just had your arse put in a sling by Israel's abandoning its ethnic cleansing intentions - how am I losing this argument?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Stringsinger
Date: 08 Feb 14 - 11:06 AM

The problem always lies with people who see things in black and white and Manichaean
narrow thinking. There are atrocities on both sides of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict, violence emanating from both quarters, jingoism and epithets, "my way or the highway" thinking and so-called factual data coming from editorials rather than honest reporting.

The fuel to the conflict is being lit by Fundamentalist Christians who are under the delusion that their god wants Israel to survive so it can be destroyed later by the return of a despotic Jesus who will annhilalate Jews if they don't convert, all this written in an absurd text called the King James bible, notably Revelations.

BDS attempts to interject rational behavior not by wanting to destroy Israel but to bring some sense to this country before it destroys itself.

Many rational Jews understand this and are critical of Netanyahu's paranoia and heavy handed dictatorial policies.

His insistence on expansionism through the settlers encroachment onto Palestinian land can only bring about condemnation from the world especially by those who value human rights.

However, BDS attempts to heal the breach by non-violence, always distorted by the media and religious fanatics as somehow the opposite of what it really is, and bolstered by misinformation.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Feb 14 - 10:34 AM

Jim, if I had expressed views like that, a man like Michael would have nothing to do with me.

Try to be rational for a moment Jim.
Why would I post all those things and then deny them?
Why would anyone?

I defend everything I post, but I have never posted the shit you always accuse me of when a thread goes against you.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Feb 14 - 10:00 AM

" I retain my respect for you in that particular, most certainly"
For the reasons I have said Mike - thirty years of work with Travellers gave me a close enough view of how bigoted attitudes like Keith's have affected their lives, some we never spoke to in depth, Like Jeannie and the Stewarts, have confirmed our own experiences - they have all commented on it publicly at one time or another - you must have heard the radio ballad.
In supporting Keith (quite stridently) you have, as far as I am concerned, sold out all those people.
Keith is an extreme bigot on Travellers as well as on other matters - he has your support, good enough for me.
I had nothing to say to you on politics, now I have nothing to say to you on music, which saddens me.
"Why would I post all those things and then deny them?"
Because that's what you do interminably
Yours statements on British fascists is a matter of record
Your statement about implants is a matter of record
Your support for supplying Assad with sniper bullets, riot equipment and chemicals is not only a matter of record, but you have reiterated it and confirmed your support for it within the last month
Your support for a racist site is a matter of recent record
Your support for Israeli ethnic cleansing is a matter of record on this thread.
You opened a thread to deny the existence of No Traveller signs and continue to do so despite our personal experience (as recent as last year) and the mountain of official evidence from groups like The Runnymede Trust and the high-ranking Government Civil Servant who documented Gypsy persecution, Sir Angus Fraser - you continue to make those claims on the basis that you and a handful of others "have never seen one".
Your legendary efforts to defend Israeli support for the mass murder of refugees is a matter of record.
Your defence of the use of chemicals on Palestinians and on Bedouins is a matter of record.
Your support for allowing Governments to move people about like chess-pieces can be found withing a handful of posting up this thread.
Your defence of Israel moving Bedouins onto a toxic rubbish dump is a matter of record.
Have I missed anything - if not, I'll go and dig up some more if you wish?
Now exactly what have I led about?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 08 Feb 14 - 08:15 AM

Jordanian sheikh: Allah gave the land of Israel to the Jews
Al Quds and other Arab media outlets published this amazing article this weekend:

    Sheikh Ahmad Adwan, who introduces himself as a Muslim scholar who lives in Jordan, said on his personal Facebook page that there is no such thing as "Palestine" in the Koran. Allah has assigned the Holy Land to the Children of Israel until the Day of Judgment (Koran, Sura 5 – "The Sura of the Table", Verse 21), and "We made the Children of Israel the inheritors (of the land)" (Koran, Sura 26 – "The Sura of the Poets", Verse 59).

    "I say to those who distort their Lord's book, the Koran: From where did you bring the name Palestine, you liars, you accursed, when Allah has already named it "The Holy Land" and bequeathed it to the Children of Israel until the Day of Judgment. There is no such thing as 'Palestine' in the Koran. Your demand for the Land of Israel is a falsehood and it constitutes an attack on the Koran, on the Jews and their land. Therefore you won't succeed, and Allah will fail you and humiliate you, because Allah is the one who will protect them (i.e. the Jews)."

    The sheikh added: "The Palestinians are the killers of children, the elderly and women. They attack the Jews and then they use those (children, the elderly and women) as human shields and hide behind them, without mercy for their children as if they weren't their own children, in order to tell the public opinion that the Jews intended to kill them. This is exactly what I saw with my own two eyes in the 70's, when they attacked the Jordanian army, which sheltered and protected them. Instead of thanking it (the Jordanian army), they brought their children forward to (face) the Jordanian army, in order to make the world believe that the army kills their children. This is their habit and custom, their viciousness, their having hearts of stones towards their children, and their lying to public opinion, in order to get its support."

    It is worth mentioning, that the above mentioned sheikh visited Israel and met Jewish religious scholars. The "Israel in Arabic" site conducted an interview with him, in which he said that the reason for his openness towards the Jewish people "comes from my acknowledgment of their sovereignty on their land and my belief in the Koran, which told us and emphasized this in many places, like His (Allah's) saying "Oh People (i.e the Children of Israel), enter the Holy Land which Allah has assigned unto you" (Koran, Sura 5 – "The Sura of the Table", Verse 21), and His saying "We made the Children of Israel the inheritors (of the land)" (Koran, Sura 26 – "The Sura of the Poets", Verse 59) and many other verses.

    He (Adwan) added: "(The Jews) are peaceful people who love peace, who are not hostile and are not aggressors, but if they are attacked, they defend themselves while causing as little damage to the attackers as possible. It is an honor for them that Allah has chosen them over the worlds – meaning over the people and the Jinns until the Day of Judgment. I made the reasons for Allah's choice clear in my books and pamphlets. When Allah chose them, He didn't do so out of politeness, and He wasn't unjust other peoples, it is just that they (the Jews) deserved this."

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Feb 14 - 06:55 AM

Try to be rational for a moment Jim.
Why would I post all those things and then deny them?
Why would anyone?

I defend everything I post, but I have never posted the shit you always accuse me of when a thread goes against you.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 08 Feb 14 - 06:54 AM

I don't see why we shouldn't still exchange musical views, Jim; I retain my respect for you in that particular, most certainly. But I agree that politically & ideologically we start from such different preconceptions & premises that trying to communicate on topics concerning these is only likely to exacerbate hostility, and probably best left. We each know pretty well what the other thinks by now, and our discourse is just getting more & more disagreeably & predictably contentious.

Good wishes notwithstanding...

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Feb 14 - 04:48 AM

"And we'll Fight the Blacks and Muslims with a bank of denials"
Working on the rest of the song
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Feb 14 - 04:48 AM

"And we'll Fight the Blacks and Muslims with a bank of denials"
Working on the rest of the song
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Feb 14 - 04:43 AM

All lies Jim.
You can not challenge what I really say.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Feb 14 - 04:24 AM

Game over with you morons Keith
Israel once again has attempted to introduce ethnic cleansing laws onto their statute books and for the second time, has been forced to withdraw them due to world-wide outrage and U.N. pressure - even the U.S. refused to cross the line this time
You supported their proposals and have not just been left with egg on your face, but are now totally egg-bound.
You fascist tendencies have been obvious for a long time now:
Your defending the use of chemical sprays and water cannon on Bedouin settlements
Your supporting the moving of Bedouin communities onto toxic sites.
Your defence of Israel's part in the massacre of thousands of unarmed refugees - men women and children alike   
Your support for wartime Fascism at the time the Jews were being herded into extermination camps by describing their viciously Anti-Semitic outpourings and their moves to form a provisional Government "when Herr Hitler wins" as "harmless"   
Your describing Pakistanis as implanted potential perverts
Your support for Assad by proposing that he be supplied with riot equipment to neutalise opposition to his regime and herd the ringleaders into his torture chambers.
Your defending the selling of sniper bullets probably used to traine the Homs snipers and chemicals that were almost certainly helpful to his building up his massive chemical weapon stockpile.
Your openly supporting the outpourings of an extremist racist site without either examining it or explaining your support except "I remember the church attack" - nothing more substantial than that to justify 1,000 claims by these scum.
Your support for the Dale Farm evictions, your denial of researched evidence of the no-Traveller signs, your suggestion that Governments are entitled to move Travellers about like chess pieces
Plenty more - but that'll do for now.
All this is a matter of Mudcat record, but please, please, please deny anything or all of it again and give me an opportunity to put it up again.
You are a sad-sick individual, Boo-Boo is a little clown only good for light relief.
I have to admit, I really don't understand Mike's part in all this.
Both he and I have a passion for and have been involved in folk-song for large parts of our lives.
Both of us are fully aware of the contribution Travellers have made to out enjoyment and understanding of those songs - Jeannie Roberts, The Stewarts, Duncan Williamson, Johnny Doran, John Doherty, Phoebe, Jasper and Levi Smith - all of those wonderful people who gave us our songs and music.   
In the thirty odd years Pat and I worked with Travellers, we were told hundreds of times of the treatment they received at the hands of the uncaring and antagonistic British and Irish establishments - their being treated as non-people, as sub humans, harassed and persecuted.
In spite of all this, on the topic of Israel's attempting to ghettoise entire ethnic Travelling communities (and finally being forced to abandon those attempts by world pressure) Mike chooses to once again join you in your sordid and vicious campaigns.
I neither understands how he reconciles that support, either from a musical point of view or a personal one
Ah well
We really have nothing to say to each other about anything Mike
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Feb 14 - 01:50 AM

Those fascists can be sooooooo sharp!
Did you feel a big prick Jim, or just a little one?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 07 Feb 14 - 05:53 PM

'fascist pricks
Jim Carroll'
.,,.

Ooh, dear. Hope it didn't hurt too much & he didn't bleed excessive...

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 07 Feb 14 - 11:44 AM

"you thre morens" hahaha!

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Feb 14 - 11:32 AM

"I suggest that he stick with what he is good at, you know"
I do and have managed to pull you thre morens out of your closet - fascist pricks
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 07 Feb 14 - 11:09 AM

Oh look at the bitter little man's attempt at humour. I suggest that he stick with what he is good at, you know; name calling, invective, lies, hate, bigotry etc......his stock-in-trade.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Feb 14 - 08:57 AM

Have you decided who's Curley, Larry or Moe yet?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 07 Feb 14 - 08:10 AM

"ineffectual grinding of the Carrollian dentures!!!"

Hahaha....good one, thanks for the laugh Mike.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 07 Feb 14 - 05:23 AM

Hohohohoho ————


can there be a more delightful sound in the entire Universe

than the

ineffectual grinding of the Carrollian dentures!!!


teeheeheeheeheeheeheeheeheeheeheehee.............................

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 07 Feb 14 - 05:11 AM

☞〠☜

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Feb 14 - 04:56 AM

It would appear that the Israeli Government have now withdrawn The Prawer plan - the bill you are all vigorously supporting
The Knesset has probably been infiltrated by Anti-Semites
What a shower of clowns you three morons are - good entertainment value though.
You really should do something about that lapse into second-childhood Mike - it gets a little embarrassing to see one of our better-educated behaving like a child
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Feb 14 - 04:34 AM

Yep - expected a non- response Mike
I once hoped that you wouldn't allow this moron to drag you down to his level - it seems you were probably there first
You really should be ashamed of yourself
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 07 Feb 14 - 03:48 AM

Found you very helpful & interesting on the Paddy West thread, mind...

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 07 Feb 14 - 03:42 AM

"Because I don't like fascists and ethnic cleansing - I don't like peole who use this forum being used for delivering messages supporting ethnic cleansing"
.,,.,.
Oh deary-weary-me. You don't like it? Ah diddums den! And who's supposed to lose sleep or give a fluttering-uno-wot over what the great James Carroll doesn't happen to like, then? God, what insufferable conceit, to think we all care what the monster-〠-ed Carroll "likes"! Well, I don't happen to like self-righteous predictably doctrinaire verbose little prigs; but I refrain from proclaiming the fact incessantly to the extent of hijacking threads even on topics where not germane [see Xtn Persectn], to the acute boredom of the entire population, you egocentric little personage you. We've all got the message now as to what a right place your gigantically
everybody·except·those·who·won't·take·you·at·yr·own·inflated·ultraconceited·valuation-loving

♥ is. So why not just shut up for just a millisecond & give us all a rest from what the ineffable Carroll J doesn't happen to like, before we all perish in a pestilence of extremest ennui.

Conceited, selfrighteous egocentric selfregarding little prig!

Shazam! Vanish! Avaunt! Off-piss!

~M.the.Gdn·☤~

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Feb 14 - 03:01 AM

"Extreme racist sites -"
LIE
"Support for arming Assad -"
LIE
"now support for an open policy of ethnic cleansing"
LIE

From your link Jim.
"The Bedouin resettlement authority said, "The plan is groundbreaking and for the most part legalizes current residences with the creation of rural settlement models, in accordance with the needs of the Bedouin sector." It added that the plan includes economic development, infrastructure, education and employment solutions."

But then, it never happened did it Jim?
"The Prawer Plan called for Israel to officially recognize and register the vast majority of Bedouin settlements throughout the south, and compensate the residents of 35 unrecognized villages — some 30,000 to 40,000 people — who were to be moved off state-owned land into towns built for them.

"Several days ago, the chairman of the Knesset coalition announced that there is not a majority supporting the bill in its present form," Begin said, and indicated that there was a movement afoot to change the bill.

Begin told the assembled reporters that the efforts to "introduce far-reaching changes in the government's formulation" led him to call for its shelving.

"Since the bill reached the Knesset," he said, "all sorts of interest groups have gotten involved, trying to take advantage of the plight of the Negev Bedouin in order to achieve political gain."

"We must not allow a hostile takeover of the bill. We must not allow its kidnapping and its distortion," he said."

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Feb 14 - 02:47 AM

"Christ, but how can you bear to be such a boring old fart!"
Because I don't like fascists and ethnic cleansing - I don't like peole who use this forum being used for delivering messages supporting ethnic cleansing and I certainly have no time for spineless creeps who lurk behind the scenes egging on the morons.
Boring it is I'm afraid Mike.
Extreme racist sites - Support for arming Assad - now support for an open policy of ethnic cleansing.
How can you support these fascist creeps
"As Jane Austen put it"
Cliché - moi?
Pompous little Thatcherite/Pinocheist pratt
Happy Bedouins
It used to be "Arbeit Macht Frei" - now it's the Prawer bill
Your trio seem to have gone the whole five yards
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4459635,00.html
Yup - I'd rather be boring.
Checkmate, I think
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 06 Feb 14 - 05:41 PM

...and

Into the Valley of Death
Rode the...

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 06 Feb 14 - 05:39 PM

"I will be interested to see if your fairy godmother ever has the temerity to show his face in your support ever again - fascist bastard!
Jim Carroll"
.,,.
Suppose you mean me Jim. You usually do.

Christ, but how can you bear to be such a boring old fart!

As Jane Austen put it, & I never tire of quoting: you do not "deserve the compliment of rational opposition."

So just go back to sleep, eh?, there's a dear little fellow.

Ho-hum···

☤☤☤☤☤☤

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Feb 14 - 02:48 PM

"Arbeit Macht Frei" appears to be what you re trying to say.
No Jim.

Re your site.
"A 2005 article in The Jewish Tribune criticized GlobalResearch.ca as "rife with anti-Jewish conspiracy theory and Holocaust denial." B'nai Brith Canada had complained that there were comments on a forum that questioned how many Jews died in the Holocaust. Website editor Michel Chossudovsky responded that there was a disclaimer that the website was not to be held responsible for the views expressed in the forum, and he had the comment removed. He also said that he was of Jewish heritage and would be one of the last people to condone antisemitic views.[3] The same article also reported that B'nai Brith Canada wrote a letter to the University of Ottawa (Chossudovsky's former employer) asking for the university "to conduct its own investigation of this propagandist site.""

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Feb 14 - 02:42 PM

"Bedouin Israelis are the fastest growing population group in the world."
"Arbeit Macht Frei" appears to be what you re trying to say.
By the away BoBoo - look up the term 'kapo' if you are not already familiar with it.
I' well aware of the Bedouin Uncle Tom who has been bought off.
I will be interested to see if your fairy godmother ever has the temerity to show his face in your support ever again - fascist bastard!
Jim Carroll

Some happy Bedouins
http://www.globalresearch.ca/israels-begin-prawer-plan-global-protests-against-bedouin-ethnic-cleansing/5360068

Around 40,000 Bedouins are targeted. They're Israeli citizens. They're considered nonpersons. They're treated that way. They're denied all rights.

The so-called Begin-Prawer Plan (Law for Arranging Bedouin Settlement in the Negev) is ruthlessly racist. It legitimizes ethnic cleansing. It wants Bedouin land for exclusive Jewish development.

It authorizes destroying Bedouin homes. It calls for dozens of villages to be leveled. It sanctions mass ethnic cleansing on a scale not seen since 1948. Israeli authorities are trampling on the rights of their own citizens.

According to Association for Civil Rights in Israel attorney Rawia Aburabia:
Israel's plan "will cause the displacement and forced eviction of dozens of villages and tens of thousands of Bedouin residents, dispossessing them of their property and historical rights to their lands, destroying the social fabric of their communities, and sealing the fate of thousands of families into poverty and unemployment."
"All of this while the government simultaneously promotes the establishment of new Jewish communities, some of which are even slated to be built on the fresh ruins of Bedouin villages."
"Rather than displacing these communities, the government should seek a true and just solution that facilitates the inclusion of Bedouin citizens into the civil and social fabric of the Negev by recognizing the unrecognized villages and acknowledging their legal ownership rights to their lands."
"For years, the Bedouin citizens have lived in (unrecognized) villages without basic conditions while around them more and more Jewish communities are built."
"The government must decide whether to seek a true and just solution that facilitates the inclusion of Bedouin in the Negev as equal citizens or a belligerent plan, that only increases the alienation, hostility and poverty in these communities."
Bimkom is an Israeli human right group. Nili Baruch is one of its urban planners. "The key to a solution to the issue of the unrecognized villages in the Negev is planning," she said.
"A plan to formally recognize the unrecognized villages (such as the one initiated by the village residents themselves) will afford them their rights to education, health, adequate infrastructure, and sources of employment."
"Such a process would not only be the most likely to succeed, but also the most just, coming after years of neglect of the unrecognized villages, most of which have been in existence since before the state of Israel was established."
In September 2011, Netanyahu's cabinet approved Begin-Prawer. It's part of a longterm ethnic cleansing agenda. It aims to Judaize areas for exclusive Jewish development.

In June 2013, it passed its first Knesset reading. Two more are required. Final passage could come any time.
Yaron Ben Ezra heads the World Zionist Organization's settlement division. He represents its racist policy.
He calls building new Negev Jewish communities important "to prevent the continued invasion of state lands by the Bedouin and to prevent the creation of Bedouin or Arab (territorial) contiguity."
Israel considers Bedouins foreign invaders, squatters. They lived on their land for centuries before Jews arrived. It doesn't matter.
Israeli revisionists rewrite history their way. They violate international laws, standards, and fundamental democratic principles doing so.
Bedouins are considered nonpersons. They live in so-called "unrecognized villages." The term is Orwellian in its worst sense. How can real people in real communities not exist?
They're considered internal refugees. They're victims of Israel's "War of Independence." It was premeditated aggression.
Nuremberg Tribunal Chief Justice Robert Jackson called these type wars the supreme international crime against peace. Israel is flagrantly guilty multiple times. So is America.
Israel's 1965 Planning and Construction Law delegitimized Bedouin villages. It established a regulatory framework and national plan for future development.
It zoned land for residential, agricultural and industrial use. It prohibited unlicensed construction. It banned it on agricultural land.
It stipulated where Arabs and Jews could live. South African apartheid worked the same way. Israel's version is much worse. It reflects slow-motion genocide.
Palestinian communities got no room to expand. Residential land was rezoned for agricultural use.
Entire communities became unrecognized. Homes and other structures were declared illegal. At least 95% of them existed before the 1965 law passed. It didn't matter. It doesn't now.
Residential and other property on these lands are subject to demolition. Their inhabitants face displacement.
New communities are prohibited. Unrecognized ones are denied essential services.
They include clean drinking water, electricity, roads, transport, sanitation, education, healthcare, postal and telephone service, refuse removal, and more.
Under Israel's Planning and Construction Law, they're illegal. Denying fundamental rights spurns international laws and standards.
Israel's Basic Law: Human Dignity and Freedom is violated. It authorizes overturning laws contrary to dignity, life, freedom, privacy, property, and right to leave and enter Israel. It states:
"There shall be no violation of the life, body or dignity of any person. All persons are entitled to protection" to preserve them.
"There shall be no deprivation or restriction of the liberty of a person by imprisonment, arrest, extradition or otherwise."
Israeli Basic Law ignores equality. Rights apply solely to Jews. Bedouins targeted for displacement face imprisonment and fines for failing to leave.
Israel considers itself a Jewish state. Arabs are unwelcome, unwanted, unprotected, and unequal under state law.
Bedouins are nonpersons on their own land. They're considered intruders. They're denied all rights. They face constant harassment.
They face imminent loss of their homes, land, communities and freedom. Their lives are at risk when Israel targets them violently.
Negev Bedouins number up to around 100,000. They're all targeted for displacement. About 40,000 face an imminent risk.
International human rights groups condemned Begin-Prawer as blatantly racist. Philip Luther heads Amnesty International's Middle East and North Africa Program. Last August he said:
"The Prawer-Begin plan is a blatant example of Israel's discriminatory policies towards its Palestinian minority. It must be dropped immediately."
World leaders able to act responsibly do nothing. Israel's Bedouin displacement policy is longstanding. It followed its War of Independence.
During the early 1950s, most Negev Bedouins were relocated. A "permitted" "Siyagh" region was set aside for them. It was in Jordanian-controlled West Bank territory.
Bedouins incrementally returned to their ancestral lands. They struggled to remain there. They continue doing so.
In the late 1990s, Israel escalated efforts to remove them. Increasing numbers of demolition orders were issued.
In 2002, herbicide spraying contaminated their land. Crops were spoiled. Livestock died. Health problems surfaced.
Massive ethnic cleansing plans were drafted. They culminated in Begin-Prawer. It's a landmark racist law.
Palestinians, human rights groups, and supportive activists struggle to prevent its enactment. Tens of thousands of Bedouin futures are at stake.
On November 29, the Palestinian Solidarity Campaign urged human rights supporters to sign it anti-Begin/Prawer letter. It said in part:
"If implemented, this plan will result in the destruction of more than 35 Palestinian towns and villages in Al-Naqab (Negev) in the south of Israel and the expulsion and confinement of up to 70,000 Palestinian Bedouins."
"It means forced displacement of Palestinians from their homes and land, and systematic discrimination and separation."
"The Israeli government is pushing ahead with this plan despite the Palestinian Bedouin community's complete rejection of the plan, and condemnation from human rights groups."
Activists declared November 30 an international "day of rage." Protests were held in Israel, the West Bank, Jerusalem, Gaza, Cairo, other regional cities, Berlin, London, Rome, Paris, the Hague, other European cities, Montreal, Toronto, Washington and elsewhere.
A Bedouin statement said:
"We are human beings and citizens, but the Prawer Plan treats us like animals who can be moved around from place to place with no consultation or regard for our wishes."
"This Saturday, we will stand with our supporters from near and afar, and call for the recognition of the villages denied recognition and for a halt to this cruel plan."
International law prohibits forced displacements. Fourth Geneva's Article 49 states:
"Individual or mass forcible transfers, as well as deportations of protected persons from occupied territory to the territory of the Occupying Power or to that of any other country, occupied or not, are prohibited, regardless of their motive."
Begin-Prawer is a crime against humanity. The Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court (ICC) says so.
Article 7 prohibits "deportation or forcible transfer of (a) population." It forbids "the crime of apartheid."
It bans "other inhumane acts of a similar character intentionally causing great suffering, or serious injury to body or to mental or physical health."
It calls these practices "crimes against humanity." Israel turns truth on its head. It claims it wants to "modernize" and "alleviate" Bedouin conditions.
Police states operate this way. They try justifying the unjustifiable. They ignore international laws and norms.
They do it unaccountably. They enforce policy through the barrel of a gun. They do it ruthlessly.
Several Palestinian youth groups issued a statement saying:
"No one will live quietly and comfortably as long as a single family in Negev faces the threat of displacement."
"No one in this country will enjoy freedom and dignity if we Palestinians, especially in Negev, do not live in dignity on our land."
Israel prohibits the right to demonstrate. Military Order No 101 bans gatherings of more than 10 Palestinians without IDF permission.
Violators face stiff fines and imprisonment up to 10 years. It applies to Jews supporting Arabs.
On Saturday, Israeli security forces attacked peaceful protesters. They did so violently. They fired rubber bullets and stun grenades. They used batons, tear gas and skunk water. Dozens were arrested.
Arab Knesset members Ahmed al-Tibi and Jamal Zahalka joined demonstrators. Al-Tibi said:
The protest was meant to emphasize that Prawer will not pass on the ground, even if it does in the Knesset, because it's essential goal is to displace the indigenous Arabs from their towns."
"This resolution will not be respected because it is racist."
According to Zahalka:
"The plan will lead to a confrontation between Israeli and indigenous people in the Negev, and Israel will have to deal with the repercussions."
Palestinians endured Israeli repression since 1948. State-sponsored terror is official policy. Israel's democracy is fake.
Peace is a non-starter. Brutal occupation is a daily reality. World leaders able to help turn a blind eye. Palestinian suffering persists.
Tens of thousands of bedouins struggle for their futures. Land they've lived on for centuries is up for grabs. Israel wants it exclusively for Jews.
Palestinian rights don't matter. Israeli Arab citizens have few. Bedouins have none. It bears repeating. Police states operate this way. Israel is ruthlessly racist.
Stephen Lendman lives in Chicago. He can be reached at [e-mail].
His new book is titled "Banker Occupation: Waging Financial War on Humanity."
http://www.claritypress.com/LendmanII.html
Visit his blog site at sjlendman.blogspot.com.
Listen to cutting-edge discussions with distinguished guests on the Progressive Radio News Hour on the Progressive Radio Network.
It airs Fridays at 10AM US Central time and Saturdays and Sundays at noon. All programs are archived for easy listening.
http://www.progressiveradionetwork.com/the-progressive-news-hour
http://www.dailycensored.com/global-protests-bedouin-ethnic-cleansing/

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 06 Feb 14 - 01:50 PM

Let's hear from an Israeli Bedouin, even though he probably doesn't know as much of his own situation as do our resident haters.

An Israeli-Bedouin-Arab-Muslim,Ishmael Khaldi, spoke about his childhood, describing his life herding sheep and his home until he was eight—a traditional Bedouin tent.

"We are not perfect. Nobody can ignore there is discrimination there. But the vast majority of people, and the younger generation in particular, enjoy their rights, living in the only democracy in the Middle East. I believe we're going in the right direction," Khaldi says. "People also should remember, Israel itself is a minority in the Middle East. When it comes to judging Israel, the state, which people do all the time, you have to look at all of those things."

Khaldi says he feels it is his responsibility to speak honestly about Israel, both its positives and negatives, and to dispel myths and non-truths about his homeland. When asked by an audience member how to tell good Muslims from a bad, Khaldi responded by stating his own beliefs, shared by—among many—his father, that nowhere in the Koran is violence and hatred a priority over love and peace, and to interpret the Muslim holy book that way is wrong.

Cue the haters calling him an Uncle Tom.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Feb 14 - 12:22 PM

The holocaust Jews were not thriving or flourishing.
They were being driven to extinction.
Bedouin Israelis are the fastest growing population group in the world.
What kind of persecution does that?

If you cared about the Bedouin, you would be posting about their pitiful plight in Egypt.
You have no compassion, just a political imperative to attack Israel.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Feb 14 - 11:45 AM

"You described them as nomads."
They are nomad - all travellers tend to stick to traditional territories and have permanent centre there, usually in the areas their families came from - Kentish Gypsies, Kerry Travellers, Aberdeenshire Tinkers
"All developed countries have planned development."
What you are proposing id Fascist - the forcible movement of one ethnic group to make room for another
Even the reactionary British Tories have been forced to recognise that rights of travellers (some of them any way) - the Israelis treat them like chess-pieces to be moved at will.
"Bedouin Israelis are not persecuted, they flourish and thrive."
Yeah, I can see that from the photographs in the link I provided!!!
They weren't too happy when the Israeli dirtbags proposed moving them onto a toxic site - neither was the U.N. who raised the matter and condemned the terrorist for trying to do so.
Nor where they happy when the Israelis used toxic sprays and water-cannons on their homes and crops to move them to make room for Israeli families.
Have you ever seen the propaganda films of 'happy Jewish children' in the camps - made at the same time six million of them were being exterminated.   
You are a fascist little bollix and I'm delighted that you confirm that fact with everything you write - keep it up.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Stringsinger
Date: 06 Feb 14 - 10:59 AM

Israel is attacking itself by taking a hard-nosed position on the rights of indigenous Palestinian people. They have less to fear from their paranoid view of Islam then they do themselves. Fortunately, according to many articles published by Haaretz, there are quite a few Israeli people who are critical of the Netanyahu regime and the propagandistic lies they tell. The accusations of "anti-semitism" are a smoke screen to denigrate critics of the militaristic fundamentalist right-wing Netanyahu followers that resemble Assad and Mubarak referring to their critics as "terrorists". The same tactic was used in the Fifties in America where everyone who disagreed with Joseph McCarthy was a "communist".
The smear tactics are becoming more evident as the relationship between fundamentalist Christians attempting to fulfill their delusional bible prophecies and militaristic Israelis are disclosed. BDS offers a hope for Israel, that the people there will come to their senses and realize that military blockades, high insular walls, a preponderance of weaponry and spy equipment, or land grabbing and expansion will not solve their problems.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Feb 14 - 04:21 AM

You described them as nomads.
All developed countries have planned development.
Bedouin Israelis are not persecuted, they flourish and thrive.

Why do you care so much for these happy people, and so little for the Christians facing annihilation?
Your concern is not for people, just attacking Israel.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Feb 14 - 04:14 AM

"No developed country could allow nomadic herdsmen to wander and camp where they will."
You have been told and you know ***** do not "wander and camp where they will".
They live in settled communities and are being moved to make room for "real" Israelis - to create an apartheid state.
Most of them have occupied these areas for generations - centuries even - far longer that the State of Israel has been in existence - the Israelis are the newcomers.
The Israeli regime is behaving just as the incomers did in Australia and the U.S. in moving the natives into ghettos (reservations) .
What you are arguing is pure fascism - the right of the state over the people - to move people wherever it suits them to do.
It's what sent 600,000 of them to the Auschwitz ovens.
http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005219
You have been hovering around fascism with your arguments for a long time - now you appear to have leapt right out of your closet.
I ask again - who do you work for BNP, UKIP, Le Pen's mob - or are you just an enthusiastic freelancer - I'm sure if you announce yourself there are plenty who would put work in your way - you appear to have the credentials.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Feb 14 - 01:09 AM

No developed country could allow nomadic herdsmen to wander and camp where they will.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Feb 14 - 05:51 PM

"Neither Britain nor Ireland nor Israel could allow nomadic shepherds to camp where they choose."

We could if we had areas where they had traditionally lived and thrived for 600 years.

The Bedouin are being moved to make room for Israeli expansion, no other reason.

The state of Israel exists purely due to a claim of ancient traditional ownership, something they now deny to the Arabs,

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Feb 14 - 05:43 PM

"The difference is you can't blame Jews for that persecution."

There is the libel again. I don't see anybody blaming Jews for any of this.

The blame is directed at the Israeli government, which, unlike Iran's is not run by Rabbis, nor by Jews, but by Israeli politicians. Their religious affiliations are of zero interest to us. Their political activities directing the policies of the "STATE OF ISRAEL" are the topic under discussion.

If we could only get that point into the thick heads of those who cry "Antisemite" at every post, we might be able to discuss that topic.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: GUEST,Troubadour
Date: 05 Feb 14 - 05:34 PM

"The European Parliament heavily criticized the plan.[9] In January 2012 hundreds of people protested the Prawer Plan, calling for the relocation of about 30,000 Beduins to recognized villages, in front of the Beersheba courthouse.[10] In September 2013 both Human Rights Watch and the United Nations Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights (OHCHR) issued statements condemning Israel's ongoing destruction of Palestinian homes and other structures, particularly in the occupied West Bank and the Negev desert in southern Israel.[citation needed]"

It seems that the government of Israel has been drawing on the experience of their biggest ally, the one which ethnically cleansed the Native Americans to make way for their own settlers, putting the few survivors in reservations where they would be totally dependent upon their "benefactors" for food, water and all the other things they previously got from the land they OWNED.

The down side of learning the lessons of history.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: GUEST,Troubadour
Date: 05 Feb 14 - 05:15 PM

"Palestinians have full citizenship rights in Israel, but in neighbouring countries are still incarcerated in refugee camps after seventy years."

Tell that to the people of Gaza or the West Bank!

I'm sure they could do with a good laugh.