BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 06 Aug 14 - 01:25 PM

Jimmy,

"Almost the entire deaths in Gaza have been the direct results of deliberate Israeli attacks
"

ACCORDING TO YOU AND YOUR LIES, or just according to Hamas? When did YOU go over there for first hand information?

""HAMAS is using anti-personnel warheads on their rockets"
"

ARE YOU DENYING THIS??

There are pictures of the missiles, pictures of the impacts in Israel, and a large collection of fragments ALL SHOWING THAT THEY ARE ANTI_PERSONNEL.




I bet you think your shit doesn't stink, too.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Aug 14 - 01:18 PM

"The civilians being killed in Gaza are often killed by anti-personnel warheads."
Fucking nonsense
Almost the entire deaths in Gaza have been the direct results of deliberate Israeli attacks
"Israel is using explosive warheads to destroy rockets and tunnels"
And using mortars, tanks, flechette weapons, and all the armament they possess against everything in comes within range.
They actualy instructed those sheltering in U.N refuges t remain where they were, then shelled them - that's howw deliberate their attacks have been.
They gave the staff ten minutes to evacuate the buildings before they deliberately shelled hospitals.
A film last week showed an Israeli pilot explaining to a TV reporter how is lane worked and proudly showed her what magnificently sophisticated surveillance equipment, showing how they could pinpoint what they were aiming at.
Whe she pointed out that they were destroying hospitals, he paused, then sauid, "yeah, but we are offering them medical attention".
Deliberate murder and no pretence of anything else.
"HAMAS is using anti-personnel warheads on their rockets"
Proof of this please - go count the number of people who have actually been killed in the last dozen years and report back
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 06 Aug 14 - 12:45 PM

Musket,

The civilians being killed in Gaza are often killed by anti-personnel warheads.

Israel is using explosive warheads to destroy rockets and tunnels

HAMAS is using anti-personnel warheads on their rockets.

20-30% of the Hamas rockets are landing in GAZA.


WHERE DO THOSE 640-960 ANTI-PERSONNEL ROCKETS THAT HIT GAZA AFTER BEING LAUNCHED AT ISRAEL BY HAMAS LAND, that they NEVER hurt anyone according to YOU and HAMAS??



You and Jimmy boy might just shut the fuck up until you learn to look at the evidence and not just accept the propaganda ( OF EITHER SIDE) without question.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Musket
Date: 06 Aug 14 - 12:36 PM

Braidedbeardedbruce..

You keep saying that the children murdered by Israeli soldiers are the responsibility of Hamas.

I didn't know Hamas was fighting alongside Israelis? or in your head are all terrorists on the same side?

Every world leader reckons Israel are doing the bombing, and they employ clever people to tell them. Considering you and Poo Bad are the only people outside of the Israeli government saying otherwise, and you are both nobodies anyway, does that mean at long last you might just shut the fuck up?

Your glorifying of murder and mud slinging at anyone shocked and horrified at what you celebrate makes decent people have to shower more regularly.

And the price of water isn't cheap.





As every Gaza resident can tell you...

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Aug 14 - 10:51 AM

"Which I have stated is Hamas responsibility, and YOU ignore"
Whoops sorry Juicy Brucie- I thought it was the Israeli tanks guns bombs and planes which have done the killing.
To describe this massacre as "defensive" is an obscenity in itself - it is nothing less than mass murder on a grand scale.
Whatever I might think of Hamas - Israel has been the aggressor throughout this war.

The Blockade is newly ten years old, the Walls have been in existence for nearly that long - efforts to create a 'Jewish' State' via forcibly imposed settlements date back to the 1960s.
The State of Israel came into existence with the sound of hand-grenades being thrown into occupied homes - departing British troops ad the Israeli historian Max Morris testified to that fact.
It was those massacres which inspired Albert Einstein and his Jewish co-signatories to warn of a "Fascist Zionist State".
Hamas is guilty of offering resistance; they were put into authority because their predecessors weren't up to the job.
Israel is recognised throughout the world as an aggressor - some have supported that aggression for business and political reasons, but the Palestinians are victims of Israeli aggression.
You have said yourself that the Palestinians have no right to their homeland - multiply that with a wealthy, politically influential, well armed and equipped aggressive state marching in mob handed - four times now, and each time filling another few graveyards and leaving thousands of people homeless each time - plus a nearly decade long siege to bring a poverty-stricken, ill-armed and ill trained Third World people to their knees - that is the situation.
This last obscenity has proved too rich for even Israels strongest allies - as the journalists said on last night's programme - the Israelis don't give two fucks what the world thinks of them - they will continue to starve and slaughter until somebody dos something about it.
There are now serious discussions of a boycott of Israeli goods - the quicker, the better.
I notice this latest bloodbath is being referred to as Israel's Soweto - about time.
I notice you fail to comment on Israel's deliberate use of childern as Human Targets - they probably all had rocket launchers in ther schoolbags!

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Musket
Date: 06 Aug 14 - 10:48 AM

I didn't see it. Prick. I am a normal person. I use the internet, I am not governed by it. The Today programme possibly, or Radio 2. Not every verbal word in current affairs is transcribed into text, funnily enough. Mind you, I assume it was part of a press release so keep trying, it might turn up yet.

If your wife tells you your tea has gone cold, do you google "cold tea" and defy her to call you a liar?

There aren't half some odd buggers on Mudcat. Not all of them are benign either.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 06 Aug 14 - 09:50 AM

"THE WANTON SLAUGHTER OF NEARLY TWO THOUSAND HUMAN BEINGS - MAINLY NON- COMBATANTS, MANY CHILDREN INCLUDED "


Which I have stated is Hamas responsibility, and YOU ignore.

WHERE DO THOSE 900 ANTI-PERSONNEL ROCKETS THAT HIT GAZA AFTER BEING LAUNCHED AT ISRAEL BY HAMAS LAND, that they NEVER hurt anyone according to YOU and HAMAS??

Yet EVERY Israeli shell seeks out some civilian, every time that Israel attacks the launching sites of those ILLEGAL HAMAS ROCKETS.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 06 Aug 14 - 09:42 AM

No, Jimmy.

YOU are the bastard for supporting Hamas in it's war crimes: Attacking the civilian population of Israel, using it's own civilians as human shields, and using protected sites such as schools, apartments, and hospitals as military sites.

YOU have blood all over you for that support.

You keep posting Hamas propaganda, and have YET to admit that it has been shown to be false in many cases-

YOU blame Israel for what YOU are encouraging Hamas to do- KILL PALESTINIAN CIVILIANS.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Aug 14 - 09:34 AM

"But anything not from the Hamas propaganda site HAS to be a lie,"
There have been such accusations made throughout - virtually all unsubstantiated
Even if this one is genuine THIS DOES NOT EXCUSE THE WANTON SLAUGHTER OF NEARLY TWO THOUSAND HUMAN BEINGS - MAINLY NON- COMBATANTS, MANY CHILDREN INCLUDED WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT YOU AND YOUS HAVE SUPPORTED THROUGHOUT
You have been given desriptians and photographs of Palestinian childern being dent into unsafe ares sat on the bonnets of military vehicles - of Israeli troops usng occupied homes as lookout points, of schoolyards being used to launch rockets, of teachers having to flee with infants in arms to escape tear-gas...... not a murmur from one of you.
Such acts are reprehensible - whoever is to blame.
Bastards, them and you
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 06 Aug 14 - 08:48 AM

Unlike Mudcat's apologists and Jew haters the people of Gaza know who is to blame:

"Palestinian civilians attacked Hamas spokesperson Sami Abu Zuhri and beat him near Shifa Hospital in the Gaza Strip recently, according to a report on the Egyptian website Veto Gate.

According to the site, Abu Zuhri's attackers were expressing anger at Hamas, placing blame on the terrorist organization for inciting the IDF's Operation Protective Edge in which nearly 2,000 Palestinians were killed and some 10,000 homes destroyed."

Report: Hamas spokesperson attacked by Gaza civilians

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 06 Aug 14 - 08:39 AM

http://www.businessinsider.com/hamas-rocket-team-caught-on-video-2014-8


But anything not from the Hamas propaganda site HAS to be a lie,


Right, Jimmy boy?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 06 Aug 14 - 08:27 AM

Gaza School Attack Now Appears To Be Staged

Jeff Dunetz wrote at Truth Revolt:

    The account promoted by Hamas and repeated by the United States and the U.N. on Sunday was that an Israeli mortar hit a U.N. school, killing 10 people, including children. However, evidence is emerging that the Israeli strike hit outside of the school and the bodies were moved into the courtyard to make it look like Israel hit the school.

Rick Moran noted at PJTatler that the shell "struck a street outside the school gates on Sunday morning."

Now a video posted by Moral Divide indicates the Palestinian propaganda machine — otherwise known as "Pallywood" — had swung into action. And naturally, the rabidly anti-Israel left bought it, hook, line and sinker.

Here's the video: YouTube

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Aug 14 - 04:55 AM

Musket, Google can not find that quote.
Where did you see it?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Aug 14 - 03:59 AM

"Israel Confirms Hamas Funded Kidnapping"
No - Israel claims that to be the case - I think you'll find that "interrogation" is referred to as "special rendition" nowadays.
I watched an discussion on Irish television last night where three media people discussed the reportage of the Gaza bloodbath.
They were all stunned by the tidal-wave of condemnation of Israeli behaviour coming from the on-the-spot reporters and their interviewees - doctors, aid workers, neutral observers, victims.... all universally describing the events as unacceptable.
They ended the programme by saying that the Israelis were aware of overwhelming condemnation and just didn't give a fuck.
It's difficult to see how our brown-nosing politicians will talk their way out of this one - no doubt they will try.
So far we have had one Conservative Minister saying it would be "wrong to condemn Israel because it would endanger peace negotiations".
America condemned the shelling of hospitals and shelters, but continued to sell Israel the weaponry to do it.
Politicians eh - but they must be right because Keith trusts them and says their word over-rides those of Human Rights organisations.      
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Musket
Date: 06 Aug 14 - 02:55 AM

Here's one for Keith. A quote from David Cameron's No. 10 spokesman yesterday after ministers called for a banning of military sales to Israel.

"Export licences are under review and there are existing EU limitations on the types of military hardware Israel can purchase."

Oh how Keith laughed as he decided his ignorance must be right because it was only thick Musket who seems to know about it...

I wonder if any of our other war mongering cut and paste johnnies are noticing how western and Middle Eastern governments seem to be starting to share the same view of Israeli war crimes in Palestine?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 05 Aug 14 - 08:58 PM

You mean BWWWAAAAARP, or other representations of liquid defecation, dontcha, Boo?

Paregoric is the thing.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 05 Aug 14 - 07:00 PM

Yawwwn!

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 05 Aug 14 - 06:56 PM

It appears that Boo has contracted an acute case of serial postarrhoea from BullshotBruce.

The CDC should be advised - it might spread.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 05 Aug 14 - 06:34 PM

Israel Confirms Hamas Funded Kidnapping

Accomplice in abduction and murder of three teens says order came from Gaza

By Batya Ungar-Sargon — Aug 5, 2014

Israel has confirmed that the funding for the June kidnapping and murder of Israeli teenagers Naftali Frankel, Gilad Shaer, and Eyal Yifrah—which set off a chain of events that led to the current war in Gaza—was provided by Hamas.

Hassam Qawasameh, a Palestinian man arrested on July 11 in connection with the abduction, admitted that the orders and financing of the kidnapping came from Gaza. Paul Hirschson, deputy spokesperson for international media at Israel's Ministry of Foreign Affairs, tweeted the news this afternoon after an Israeli gag order was lifted.

Hirschson confirmed by phone that Qawasameh was arrested three weeks ago in connection with the kidnapping, and that Qawasameh admitted the Hamas connection under interrogation.

Ynet reports that money from Hamas operatives in Gaza was used to purchase weapons used in the attack, as well as the plot of land in which the bodies were buried.

Today's confirmation refutes speculation from various news outlets last week that Hamas wasn't behind the kidnapping, and that the kidnappers were operating as a "lone cell."

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 05 Aug 14 - 06:25 PM

Hamas is attempting to convince Palestinians that its military actions during the Gaza conflict were victorious and that the war it caused, with all its destruction, was beneficial to the Palestinians. As Palestinian Media Watch previously reported, Hamas justified the civilian deaths it caused in Gaza, claiming that it was beneficial to those killed to have died for Allah as Shahids - Martyrs. Now, Hamas is justifying the widespread destruction it caused to infrastructure and homes, saying, "Perhaps all this [destruction] is for the best":

Hamas TV: Perhaps destruction in Gaza is "for the best"

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 05 Aug 14 - 06:23 PM

FRANCE 24 has exclusive footage of a Hamas rocket launching pad that appears to prove the militant group has been firing from areas heavily populated with civilians.

Correspondent Gallagher Fenwick says the site, in Gaza City, is some 50 metres from a hotel where the majority of international media is staying, and just 100 metres from a UN building.

"This type of setup is at the heart of the debate," says Gallagher. "The Israeli army has repeatedly accused the Palestinian militants of shooting from within densely populated civilian areas and that is precisely the type of setup we have here."

The launching pad is also where the FRANCE 24 team had a close call last week. During a live cross to the Paris studio, a rocket was fired overhead, forcing Gallagher and his crew to take cover.

FRANCE 24

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 05 Aug 14 - 04:54 PM

"Hossam said that he obtained funding for the attack from Hamas operatives in the Gaza Strip."

So, our apologists have egg on their face once again.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 05 Aug 14 - 04:53 PM

Sometimes people assume that you can have access to everything, that you can see everything. But the fighters are virtually invisible to us. What we do as photographers is document what we can to show that side of the war. There are funerals, there are people being rushed to the hospital, but you can't differentiate the fighters from the civilians. They are not wearing uniforms. If there is someone coming into the hospital injured, you can't tell if that's just a shopkeeper or if this is someone who just fired a rocket towards Israel. It's impossible to know who's who. We tried to cover this as objectively as possible.

NY Times: Looking for the Enduring Photo in Gaza

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 05 Aug 14 - 02:55 PM

"Hossam said that he obtained funding for the attack from Hamas operatives in the Gaza Strip."

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 05 Aug 14 - 02:45 PM

Kawasmeh attempted to flee to Jordan with fake identification once the bodies of the teens were found. During interrogation, Kawasmeh admitted that he had acted as the leader of the murder in which Marwan Kawasmeh and Amar Abu-Eisha are also suspects. Hossam said that he obtained funding for the attack from Hamas operatives in the Gaza Strip.


Leader in murder of Israeli teens arrested

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Aug 14 - 12:02 PM

BBC also reported the launch outside their hotel.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 05 Aug 14 - 11:35 AM

"This report is being aired on NDTV and published on ndtv.com after our team left the Gaza strip - Hamas has not taken very kindly to any reporting of its rockets being fired. But just as we reported the devastating consequences of Israel's offensive on Gaza's civilians, it is equally important to report on how Hamas places those very civilians at risk by firing rockets deep from the heart of civilian zones.
"


No comment on Hamas's use of civilians as human shields- no change there then

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Aug 14 - 11:30 AM

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/aug/05/lady-warsi-resigns-government-gaza-stance
"Glad to see you signing your posts properly."
In other words - no comment on Israel's use of horrific weapons on civilians - no change there then
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 05 Aug 14 - 11:30 AM

Gaza: In the minutes before the ceasefire kicked in at Gaza this morning, Hamas fired a flurry of rockets towards Israel - 30 according to some counts.

Israel has argued that that these rockets are fired from civilian areas, and this is why its retaliatory strikes can result in civilian casualties.

But this morning, NDTV witnessed one such rocket silo being created under a tent right next to the hotel where our team was staying. Minutes later, we saw the rocket being fired, just before the 72-hour ceasefire came into effect.

It began with a mysterious tent with a blue canopy that bobbed up yesterday (August 4) at 6:30 am in an open patch of land next to our window. We saw three men making a multitude of journeys in and out of the tent, sometimes with wires.

An hour later, they emerged, dismantled the tent, changed their clothes and walked away.

The next morning - today - we woke to news of the 72-hour ceasefire but just before it was to take effect, the rocket next to our hotel was fired. There was a loud explosion and a whooshing sound. The cloud of smoke that rose was captured by our cameraperson.

This report is being aired on NDTV and published on ndtv.com after our team left the Gaza strip - Hamas has not taken very kindly to any reporting of its rockets being fired. But just as we reported the devastating consequences of Israel's offensive on Gaza's civilians, it is equally important to report on how Hamas places those very civilians at risk by firing rockets deep from the heart of civilian zones.

NDTV Exclusive: How Hamas Assembles and Fires Rockets Video

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 05 Aug 14 - 11:05 AM

Musket,

Glad to see you signing your posts properly.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Aug 14 - 10:55 AM

Third time around
VERMONT
While I'm at it:
HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH

Human Rights Watch, on Israel's Conduct
After conducting an investigation, Human Rights Watch (HRW) issued a report on Wednesday accusing Israel of carrying out "unlawful" strikes in Gaza, ones that "either did not attack a legitimate military target or attacked despite the likelihood of civilian casualties being disproportionate to the military gain." It noted that "Such attacks committed deliberately or recklessly constitute war crimes." HRW Middle East Director Sarah Leah Whitson also added that Israel's actions raise "serious questions as to whether these attacks are intended to target civilians or wantonly destroy civilian property."

________________________________________
ADVERTISEMENT
________________________________________
The report also said that "Human Rights Watch has documented numerous serious violations of the laws of war by Israeli forces in the past decade, particularly indiscriminate attacks on civilians," and criticized Israel's preposterously inadequate efforts at "warning" civilians of impending strikes. Now, which part of all that fits with "exemplary" efforts at avoiding killing civilians? Still, some may buy into Israel's allegation that Hamas's use of human shields is what's responsible for the high civilian death toll. Let's look at the evidence.
Human Shields
While human rights organizations haven't yet addressed "human shields" allegations in the ongoing round of Israel-Gaza violence, they did after the 2009 round when Israel killed at least773 Palestinian civilians, compared to three Israeli civilian casualties (a ratio of 257:1), and used the same "human shields" argument to deflect responsibility for those deaths. When the dust settled, Amnesty International investigated the matter and concluded that there was "no evidence that [Palestinian] rockets were launched from residential houses or buildings while civilians were in these buildings." More attention-worthy was the report's note that,
in the cases of [Israeli] precision missiles or tank shells which killed [Palestinian] civilians in their homes, no fighters were present in the houses that were struck and Amnesty International delegates found no indication that there had been any armed confrontations or other military activity in the immediate vicinity at the time of the attack.
Israel's Use of Human Shields
By contrast, the same report found that "in several cases Israeli soldiers also used [Palestinian] civilians, including children, as 'human shields'." Going back in time just a little further to put this into context is important: when the Israeli Supreme Court ruled in 2005 that the Israeli military had to stop using Palestinian civilians as human shields, the Israeli "defense" establishmentobjected to the ruling. The appeal against the ruling failed, and the practice remains technically illegal, but Israel implicitly encourages it to continue by offering an "inadequate … slap on the wrist," as Human Rights Watch put it, to Israeli soldiers caught using this reprehensible tactic.
This reveals two important things: the first is the moral hypocrisy and chutzpah on display when Israel ignores its own use of human shields as it accuses its enemies of using them. The second is Israel's self-contradicting logic: If Palestinian militants had such disregard for Palestinian civilian lives, why was the Israeli military so invested in maintaining the ability to use Palestinians as shields? The fact that the Israeli army wants to use Palestinian human shields actually proves that they believe Palestinian militants prefer not to endanger their own civilians.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 05 Aug 14 - 10:05 AM

Link?


I do not believe ANYTHING YOU say without some supporting link.

You have made too many lies to have earned any trust.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Aug 14 - 09:54 AM

THE ISRAELI HUMAN RIGHTS GROUP B'TSELEM HAS RECORDED NUMEROUS OCCASIONS WHEN THE ISRAELI ARMY HAS FIRED FLECHETTE SHELLS, BOTH IN LEBANON AND GAZA. THE SHELL RELEASES THOUSANDS OF TINY METAL DARTS THAT CAUSE HORRIBLE INJURIES TO ANYONE OUT IN THE OPEN.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 05 Aug 14 - 09:48 AM

"The Hamas leadership is responsible for the killing of Palestinians, not Israelis," he told Haaretz in 2010. "I tell you with certainty that the Israelis care about the Palestinians far more than the Hamas or Fatah leadership does."

When the Son of Hamas Spied for Israel

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 05 Aug 14 - 09:42 AM

that the Jewish state seems to arouse a level of condemnation that never seems to apply equally elsewhere.

Ya gots that exactly backwards, Boo. Yet again.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 05 Aug 14 - 09:29 AM

As for racism, people often point out how peculiar it is that the Jewish state seems to arouse a level of condemnation that never seems to apply equally elsewhere. But perhaps the real racism is the indifference to Muslim suffering around the world when the person dropping the bomb or pulling the trigger is another Muslim. A world that makes a fetish of the alleged guilt of Israel is also a world that holds too much Muslim life cheap.

Wall Street Journal

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Aug 14 - 08:43 AM

What more evidence can we need?

More than just an accusation from some random Palestinian group!

Re. Warsi, I did know that many people do not support Israel on this.
Given the reporting, it is amazing anyone does!

Washington Post.
"The media has engaged in journalistic malpractice by reporting casualty figures for civilians coming from Gaza as gospel. The figures come from the Gazan Ministry of Health, which is controlled by Hamas. The Ministry of Health counts everyone not in uniform as a civilian. Most Hamas fighters don't wear uniforms. The UN is sometimes sourced for the figures, but the UN gets its figures from … the Gazan Ministry of Health. Contrary to early reports that 80% or so of the early casualties were civilians, Al-Jazeera published names and ages, and about 3/4 were men of fighting age (16-50), compared to a rough estimate of 20% of the Gazan population (40% to 50% of which is fourteen and under). Some of those men were undoubtedly civilians, but it strains credulity to believe that 80% of the casualties were civilian but just-so-happened to be overwhelmingly fighting-age men. (Here's the most recent analysis from the IsraellyCool blog). For that matter, how do we know that the Minsitry of Health isn't counting deaths from natural causes as deaths from Israeli actions?"
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2014/07/26/some-israel-gaza-notes/

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 05 Aug 14 - 08:39 AM

"Baroness Warsi has just resigned from the government...."

"It's a strange world when a Tory Cabinet minister resigns because a Tory Government is not being supportive enough of terrorists. Her appointment was nothing but tokenism anyway, and tokenism nearly always ends badly."

Adam Carr

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 05 Aug 14 - 08:34 AM

Lt. Col. Peter Lerner, the Israeli military spokesman, said that Israel had completed the destruction of "approximately 32 tunnels" built by Hamas into Israel, and that Israeli forces had killed "approximately 900 militants in combat." He said that Israel had destroyed more than 3,000 rockets belonging to Hamas and its ally Islamic Jihad, that those groups had launched more than 3,300 rockets toward Israel, and that Israel believed they had remaining stocks of 3,000 rockets.

Cease Fire Begins

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Aug 14 - 08:26 AM

By the way Keith - on what authority are you denying a press report that has been circulated internationally on something Israel has not denied - have you been appointed a spokesman on their behalf - or is this jut part of your previously stated infallibility?
Do you not realise what an arse-liking moron it makes you look?
You appear to have no self respect or sense of the ridiculous
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Aug 14 - 08:19 AM

No journalist from any reputable news agency has done more than report that accusation"
A repeat of my reply from the other thread
Doesn't matter a toss - they've used them before, they have used them again - why shouldn't they.
You have given your blessing of their use
What more evidence can we need?
You are an arse-licking moron who doesn't even wait for the arse you are licking to fart before claiming it doesn't smell.
I suppose you know Lady Varsi has resigned from the Government in protest to the British Government's arse-licking approach to Gaza?
"THIS is another of your consistent lies- YOU state things WITHOUT giving any supporting link, and TELL us that it HAS to be believed because Hamas said so."
Qiire honestly, Juicy Brucie - I really don't mind being called a liar by someone of supports the wiping out of an entire people after having previously proposed that they "have no right to live where they live and should be driven into the desert to let their own kind take care of them"
Keep up the good work
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Musket
Date: 05 Aug 14 - 08:14 AM

Baroness Warsi has just resigned from the government in disgust at The Prime Minister's reluctance to openly denounce Israel. Even those who Keith can't denounce as lefty liberals feel credibility is no longer there.

Of course, he could pount out that is a woman. He could say she is a Muslim. He has to say though that she was the minister responsible for faith issues, Muslim, Christian, Jewish, Sikh,, Uncle Tom Cobbely and all.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 05 Aug 14 - 08:05 AM

Over 3200 Hamas anti-personnel warhead rockets so far…


600 to 900 have landed (and blown up ) in Gaza.

Hamas has not yet reported ONE casualty from them.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 05 Aug 14 - 07:16 AM

Jimmy,

" always provide evidence for what I say -"

THIS is another of your consistent lies- YOU state things WITHOUT giving any supporting link, and TELL us that it HAS to be believed because Hamas said so.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Aug 14 - 07:07 AM

Reported worldwide and not denied,

It was reported that "a Palestinian human rights group accused."
No journalist from any reputable news agency has done more than report that accusation, and that is all it is.
Israel does not bother to dignify with denial all the stories made up about them.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: GUEST,Troubadour
Date: 05 Aug 14 - 05:50 AM

"IDF forces in the Gaza Strip found a Hamas manual on "Urban Warfare,""

According to the IDF, and of course they would never DREAM of posting lying propaganda!

Grow up!

They are no more and no less likely to lie than Hamas, and if what the Israli government says about the missiles and ordnance they've destroyed is true, why are the world's news media not covered with photos and film of these.

Surely Israel would be smart enough to ensure that their claims would be indisputably proven.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: GUEST,Troubadour
Date: 05 Aug 14 - 05:41 AM

"Those who blame Israel first must ask themselves exactly what would they do if they were in Israel's place? What would they do if faced with religious terrorists dedicated to exterminating their people?"

Why must they, when you and all the other Israel supporters haven't yet shown the courage to answer the reverse.

What would YOU do if your country were besieged and bombed to rubble by a more powerful neighbour?

Your lack of willingness to answer would seem a sufficient answer in itself.

You would support resistance,but to admit that would destroy your fanatically pro Israel argument.

Keep on sticking your fingers in your ears and chanting LA LA LA!

Then you won't have to hear about dying women and children.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Aug 14 - 03:57 AM

"Jim, no reliable source has reported flechette use and no such casualties have occurred."
Reported worldwide and not denied, or even responded to by Israel is evidence enough for most people
The fact that you have decided off your own bat to deny it on Israel's behalf and blame fragments from Hamas missiles says everything that needs to be said about you.
THESE STATEMENTS ARE YOURS AND YOURS ALONE - EVEN ISRAEL HAS NOT GOT ROUND TO INVENTING THEM YET - THEY ARE YOUR INVENTIONS ENTIRELY - YOU ARE ONE SICK, FANATICAL INDIVIDUAL WHO APPEARS TO HAVE APPOINTED YOURSELF AN UNOFFICIAL SPOKESMAN FOR A FASCIST REGIME
"Israel calling, Israel calling" ... spooky or what?
"Since you NEVER provide any source for your claims, it is difficult to think that they are true"
Blustering Brucie:
I always provide evidence for what I say - you, on the other hand shout and bluff your way through your extremist Zionist rhetoric.
I have become very tired and sickened of you nasty bunch of inhuman fanatics who have dedicated your time to supporting war crimes and atrocities and ignoring the wanton murder of innocent human beings by a State that not only threatens the safety of the world, but has destroyed the dream of the Jewish people with its thuggery.
The example that you and your little band of ranters set of what Isreal has become is beyond value: Keith - inventing propaganda as he goes along; you, posting as if you were addressing a Nuremberg Rally; and Little Booboo... well what can one say about him apart from his entertainment value - a sort of cross between Winnie the Pooh and Chuckie.
You have set out to defend a atrocity in which approaching 2,000 people, mainly non combatants have been slaughtered by bombs, heavy artillery and sophisticated weaponry - men women and children of all ages and conditions of health.
They have been instructed to flee into shelter by their attackers then those shelters have been shelled and bombed.
Hospitals have been given ten minutes to evacuate their staff and patients and then destroyed
Homes have been bombed wiping out entire families still occupying them.
Hospitals, schools, medical centres, care homes..... all fair game for the thugs.
Reports on what has happened to journalists at the hands of our brave Israeli boys have been ongoing throughout this obscenity - I summed up what I remembered.
THIS IS A MORE RECENT ONE
That is not to say these occurences haven't been happening on both sides, of course they have - but you and yours, distinct from everyone else here, have formed yourself into a gallant band to take sides and defend this shit and show how it's all been about an impoverished, Third World State, ghettoised by decades of aggression, which has proved such a powerful threat to poor, vulnerable Israel that it has been necessary to wipe out as many of them as possible, leaving the survivors devastated and homeless, destroying their health facilities and education centres and resources for every-day living.
They are thugs and you are supporting thuggery and will continue to do so because you are no better than they are.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 04 Aug 14 - 11:07 PM

Israel is not without blame, and should be held accountable for unnecessary civilian casualties. Yet it is important to stress that Hamas is engaged in an Islamic holy war dedicated to exterminating the Jews. Those who blame Israel first must ask themselves exactly what would they do if they were in Israel's place? What would they do if faced with religious terrorists dedicated to exterminating their people?

Progressive Secular Humanist

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 04 Aug 14 - 10:55 PM

The first time I witnessed Hamas's hatred of Jews manifest itself in large-scale, fatal violence was in late July of 1997, when two of the group's suicide bombers detonated themselves in an open-air market in West Jerusalem. The attack took 16 lives, and injured 178. I happened to be only a few blocks from the market at the time of the attack, and arrived shortly after the paramedics and firefighters. Over the next hours, a scene unfolded that I would see again and again: screaming relatives; members of the Orthodox burial society scraping flesh off walls; the ground covered in blood and viscera. I remember another Hamas attack, on a bus in downtown Jerusalem, in which body parts of children were blown into the street by the force of the blast. At yet another bombing, I was with rescue workers as they recovered a human arm stuck high up in a tree.

After each of these attacks, Hamas leaders issued blood-curdling statements claiming credit, and promising more death. "The Jews will lose because they crave life but a true Muslim loves death," a former Hamas leader, Abdel-Aziz Rantisi, told me in an interview in 2002. In the same interview he made the following imperishable statement: "People always talk about what the Germans did to the Jews, but the true question is, 'What did the Jews do to the Germans?'"

What Would Hamas Do If It Could Do Whatever It Wanted?