BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Musket
Date: 15 Jul 14 - 10:34 AM

I rather think the murderers pressing the buttons from their safe military compounds or cockpits are morally responsible for the deaths don't you?

If you wish to spread it out, then add the Israeli government and their financial backers who blackmail the US government.

There is nothing legal about what Israel are doing. They have been told to stop, in fact were told not to start. It is war crime as it is neither defensive nor sanctioned by UN. Homes, schools, power sub stations and water supply establishments are not legitimate targets.

Netanyahu may as well book his court early to avoid disappointment in The Hague.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 15 Jul 14 - 10:29 AM

GregF,

We know that YOU consider killing Jews "moral", but the rest of us do not ( with the probable exception of Jim).

What the Israelis are doing is far more moral than the requirements of the law.

What Hamas is doing is both a war crime, and is immoral by any reasonable standard.

So of course YOU support Hamas in using human shields and attacking civilian populations with mass antipersonnel rockets.

After all, it is only Jews and Palestinians being killed or threatened- neither of which seems to bother you and Jim.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 15 Jul 14 - 10:23 AM

Rather fatuous application of "morality"[sic]there, Boo.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 15 Jul 14 - 10:12 AM

"Well, BB, there's technical legality, and then there's practical morality...... "

Agreed! That is precisely why Hamas bears moral responsibility for the death and injury of every single citizen of Gaza. If they had not initiated the present situation there would not have been one single casualty.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 15 Jul 14 - 10:07 AM

Well, BB, there's technical legality, and then there's practical morality......

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 15 Jul 14 - 09:09 AM

Musket,

The PALESTINIAN Authority signed the Geneva Conventions.
Hamas is now part of THAT government.

Israel's attacks on the launchers ARE NOT aimed at civilians- they were warned, and ANY such civilian casualties is as a result of the WAR CRIME OF HAMAS USING HUMAN SHIELDS and locating military sites in civilian areas, against the Geneva Conventions.




Israel is acting legally, whether YOU like it or not.

Hamas is guilty of war crimes, whether YOU like it or not.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Musket
Date: 15 Jul 14 - 09:04 AM

Hamas can't sign The Geneva Convention, because they aren't a country, silly cunt. In government, they can sign but that's like saying The Conservative Party signed the Geneva Convention but Labour didn't.

If bombing civilians is legal, then the holocaust was for the same reason.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Jul 14 - 08:24 AM

" It is Hamas who say they won't negotiate with Israel, NOT vice versa."
'Fraid not Mike - Israel has stated that they will not negotiate with Hamas - it was part of their excuse for behaving as they did following the breakdown of the last peace talks.
"The attacks against Hamas rocket launchers are acknowledged as legal"
The attacks against the Palestinian civilian population are not recognised as legal and are now being described as verging on War Crimes by the United Nations.
"According to the LAW, Israel would be within it's rights to continue the present bombing campaign indefinitely"
No it wouldn't, but it will continue to do so anyway unless outside intervention prevents it from doing so.
As far as The United Nations and war crimes is concerned, Israel has relied on the U.S. vetoing condemnatory resolutions in order to stay out of the human rights courts, though wether they will continue to do so remains to be seen..
The situation is comparable to Russia and China using their veto to protect Syria.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Ed T
Date: 15 Jul 14 - 08:13 AM

""I think Hamas is wrong to fail to recognise Israel, but that is a red herring.""

One persons red herring could, well be, another persons bluefin tuna. I suspect issues may seem quite different from the lenses of those involved directly in this never-ending and unfortunate (for civilians) conflict.

IMO, Much of the discussion on this issue rests on the assumption that one's own biases and arguments calibrate to "normal" and those seeing things differently fall on the other side of the scale.

""One man's centrism is another's extremism"". The challenge of identifying "neutral", and unbiased perspective remains a non-trivial problem - with an elusive resolution. Assuming, one finds it's necessary to take sides in a complex conflict, that is.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 15 Jul 14 - 07:55 AM

"You tell me what Israel is doing that is legal under international law and their obligations under membership of The UN. Your answer will be much shorter. "

The attacks against Hamas rocket launchers are acknowledged as legal.

IF Israel were to invade Gaza, to apprehend the Hamas individuals responsible for the rockets ( to bring them to trial for crimes against humanity) and to destroy the remaining rockets and their launch sites, that would be legal.


According to the LAW, Israel would be within it's rights to continue the present bombing campaign indefinitely, as long as Hamas continues to launch rockets.


I have answered YOU:
So tell me what Hamas has done that is legal UNDER INTERNATIONAL LAW and THEIR obligations HAVING SIGNED THE GENEVA CONVENTIONS????

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 15 Jul 14 - 07:41 AM

"According to the ceasefire proposal, after some 48 hours representatives of both Israel and Hamas will go to Cairo and work out the details of what is expected to be a more long-term deal. Israeli officials stressed that the Israeli team, which has not yet been named, will speak only with the Egyptians, and not with Hamas."


Israel accepts Egyptian ceasefire initiative to stop Gaza hostilities

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Jul 14 - 07:17 AM

That is not correct, Michael. The Israeli regime has declared that it will not negotiate with Hamas until Hamas declares that Israel has a right to exist and stops firing rockets. The Israeli regime knows full well that those conditions will not be met. And, even if they were met, it's a good bet that Israel would find another way of not negotiating. And, even if the two sides ever sit down, Israel need not make a single concession. They have the full unconditional backing of the US, including the bankrolling of their military, no matter how many children or old people they bomb to hell or how much land they steal or how many resolutions they ignore.

The Israeli people are the only ones with the answer. They have to realise that they keep on electing regimes that can only perpetuate the insecurity which they endure. I think Hamas is wrong to fail to recognise Israel, but that is a red herring. Hamas also has to answer to its people and the wider middle east beyond. The non-recognition of Israel has to quietly slide away, as empty, nonsensical rhetoric often has a habit of doing (ask Ian Paisley). No-one has to capitulate. Waiting for someone to capitulate just gets more people killed.

In the meantime, Israeli regime apologists, consider what's going on with ordinary people in Gaza every day. Or turn the telly off. Your choice.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 15 Jul 14 - 06:51 AM

Jim -- Will you get it into your head, please? - as bobad has just pointed out ~~ It is Hamas who say they won't negotiate with Israel, NOT vice versa. So your last post might as well be written in Martian for all the sense it makes.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 15 Jul 14 - 06:32 AM

"Israel's cabinet said Tuesday morning it would accept an Egyptian proposal for a ceasfire with Hamas, after seven days of fighting, but Hamas was quick to reject the offer, resuming rocket salvos across the country. Earlier, two rockets hit the city of Eilat at Israel's southernmost tip on Monday night, lightly injuring four people in the first attack on the city since the Gaza campaign began."

Read more: Rocket shot at Haifa as Netanyahu threatens to step up Gaza op | The Times of Israel http://www.timesofisrael.com/ceasefire-proposed-after-a-week-of-israel-hamas-conflict/#ixzz37X2hjb5o
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Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Jul 14 - 06:30 AM

If Israel says it won't negotiate where Hamas is involved, then Palestine is entitled to say that it won't negotiate with those responsible for what is happening at present - stalemate.
I have no brief whatever for Hamas or their behaviour in this, but they form the only resistance to Israel - without their actions, there is no opposition to Israeli aggression at the present time.
Refusing to negotiate with them is equal to refusing to negotiate with anybody who had anything to do with all those resistance groups fighting for The State of Israel - we may not be happy with how they went about thing, but they were very much a fact of life (or death).
Some of the old resistance fighters became heroes, even national leaders.
The situation is not unsimilar to what happened in Ireland in the 70s and 80s - I am no lover of the I.R.A., but I have no doubt that their presence brought Britain to the conference table and achieved some sort of peace.
Needs must.... and all that.
In my opinion, in the end, both have to agree to put the matter into the hands of the U.N - unless, of course, Egypt manages to pull something out of the hat - but that has only short term aims.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 15 Jul 14 - 04:37 AM

Agreed, Jim. But "negotiation" with whom, will you please respond? Without Hamas being one of the parties, these negotiations will attain no viable or enforceable conclusion, because Hamas, over whom the other potential participants have no control, are the most essential of participants. And you know that isn't going to happen.

So what's your next principled but unattainable proposal, eh?

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Jul 14 - 04:15 AM

"But they have at least made some gestures towards negotiation,"
Gestures only - as long as nothing changed, which does not help the besieged Palestinian people one iota.
The last peace talks were deliberately sabotaged by the Israelis from day one.
You give no alternative other than the Palestinians surrender to Israeli aggression and return to the status quo - if there is anything we both know, it is that is is unacceptable and simply is not going to happen
Negotiation or genocide
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 15 Jul 14 - 03:42 AM

Just one more try -- for all the good it will do me! ---

I agree with pretty well all your criticisms of and animadversions against Israel, Jim. But they have at least made some gestures towards negotiation, however hedged about you find their offers -- which negotiation might well influence if it could just occur. Hamas, OTOH, have explicitly & aggressively rejected any such procedures. So whoever may sit at this table of yours, even "under the scrutiny of" the Lord Jesus Christ and "in full view of" the Lord God Almighty, it will be but a vain proceeding if Hamas are not party to it, because none of the other potential conferees can control them and they are really the only entity that matters.

You know this perfectly well -- so just, please, apply a bit of Sense And Sensibility to the matter, and stop declaiming platitudes like a demented Revd Mr Collins.

Regards

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Jul 14 - 02:59 AM

"You're turning into a bit of a parrot, as well as an ostrich, Jim. "
Ss you are Mike - only you appear to have swallowed a copy of 'Pride and Prejudice'
"Tell Hamas"
And what - the Israelis will take down their Berlin walls, remove the blockade, stop building settlements, stop using heavy artillery, chemicals and bombs on homes hospitals and schools, stop truning israel into the Apartheid state it is becoming, stop ethnic cleansing the Bedouins....?
Yeah - sure they will!!
What Hamas is doing is stupid, counter-productive and futile; it is damaging to the Palestinian people - it is little more than "I may not be able to fight, but I can spit".
What Israel is doing is murderously inhuman - Israeli response is on well the way to being a major war crime against the civilian population of Gaza.   
Israel has shown over and over again, particularly during the last peace talks, that it has no interest in any negotiation that doesn't include continued expansion and continued military domination of the lands that both Arab and Jew have a right to - they are the aggressors here and their behaviour needs to be challenged - as far as I am concerned, the question belongs at the Conference table, under the scrutiny of the U.N. and in full view of the world.
Stop strutting around like a wannaby Mr Darcy
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Musket
Date: 15 Jul 14 - 02:59 AM

Watch the harrowing footage on BBC News then see if you can type that again Michael.

Every time Israel starts negotiating, American aid is threatened and within months, a more right wing approach is sought to appease the ultra orthodox and their Western backers.

That the Israeli military are having to churn out propaganda about surgical strikes that somehow don't cause collateral damage is testament to the more pragmatic Israeli public who are uncomfortable with theocratic approaches to peace and harmony.

Mind you, when you aim at schools, chances are you bomb them.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 15 Jul 14 - 01:52 AM

'"What should Israel DO after missiles are fired at them?"
What they should have done on day one - go to the negotiating table'

.,,.

You're turning into a bit of a parrot, as well as an ostrich, Jim.

Once again: don't tell us; don't tell Israel...

Tell Hamas. Again. And see how far it gets you. Again.

The rest of the Arab countries can negotiate with Israel till they are all blue in the face. But they can't control Hamas, who are in fact the only entity worth considering, and who won't take a blind bit of notice. You know it perfectly well. So stop squawking "negotiate" like some sort of demented parrot.

Please.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 15 Jul 14 - 01:46 AM

Musket: "Ok Goofus. Kill hundreds of children indiscriminately?
Cause a refugee crisis and expect others to pick up the tab?.....blah blah, radda-cradda guff-guff...."

What should Israel DO after missiles are fired at them?

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 14 Jul 14 - 09:27 PM

awareness of his pilots to the possibility of harming civilians.

Of COURSE they're "aware if it" - they're IMPLEMENTING it & heading for 200 as I type this.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 14 Jul 14 - 06:38 PM

Amid a rising chorus of condemnation of the steep civilian death toll in Gaza – there were 172 fatalities in total by Palestinian accounts as of Monday – a senior Israeli air force commander who has flown combat sorties all throughout the past week asserted that the fact-checking of possible targets and in-air awareness of his pilots to the possibility of harming civilians is unrivaled.

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"I don't think there's an equivalent anywhere in the world," said Lt. Col. T, the commander of a squadron of F-16Is, the air force's most advanced model of that aircraft. "And I am familiar with many other air forces."

Read more: 'Slightest doubt' cancels mission, says top Israeli pilot | The Times of Israel http://www.timesofisrael.com/slightest-doubt-cancels-mission-says-iaf-officer/#ixzz37U8ZVbj2
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Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Musket
Date: 14 Jul 14 - 06:08 PM

Ok Goofus. Kill hundreds of children indiscriminately?

Cause a refugee crisis and expect others to pick up the tab?

Tell you what Bruce. You tell me what Israel is doing that is legal under international law and their obligations under membership of The UN. Your answer will be much shorter.

On BBC news today, a 12 year old boy told of his school bombed and his father, a teacher there, killed by Israeli bombs. He asked the reporter who was to teach him now? The reporter had tears in her eyes, which was a bit of a coincidence.

Perhaps the more bloodthirsty members of Mudcat might reflect on what they cheer for?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 14 Jul 14 - 05:59 PM

Jim, and who should ensure that whatever negotiated lands conceded, won't be used to fortify, and launch another attack on Israel??...being as that IS the history..and who should take action, if they did launch??

Musket: "Any chance that the likes of beardedbruce could lay off for a while to allow for intelligent people to get a word in?"

Any chance that the likes of Musket could lay off attacking, for a while, to allow himself to say something intelligent, to get a real thought in, worth listening to?

Any chance that the likes of Greg F. could lay off avoiding by attacking, for a while, to allow himself to say something intelligent, to get a real thought in, worth listening to?


Here, contemplate this one.....we'll be awaiting a salient answer..

"OK, let's 'bottom line' this... What should Israel DO, in your opinion, after missiles are fired at them?"

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 14 Jul 14 - 03:28 PM

Musket,

You have failed to point out any illegal acts by Israel.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Musket
Date: 14 Jul 14 - 03:25 PM

Any chance that the likes of beardedbruce could lay off for a while to allow for intelligent people to get a word in?

I point out the criminal acts of the Israeli army and he takes it as me saying positive things about Hamas.

If you don't have the intelligence to get beyond "if he dislikes Israeli crime, he must support Palestinian crime" you aren't really up to debate. Bad enough Poobad without him gaining a glove puppet.

When does Keith come back from Jockland? At least he doesn't give his own views, largely through not having any...

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Jul 14 - 03:15 PM

"What should Israel DO after missiles are fired at them?"
What they should have done on day one - go to the negotiating table with an intetion of reaching a compromise with the Palestinians rather than a set shopping list.
The U.N. has suggested as much today and the only alternative seems to be a replay of the Holocaust - this time with Arabs as the victims and the Israelis as the perps.
We all know that Israel has the biggest conker in the playground; let's see if it has the nouse and humanity to accept that human beings come before scraps of paper drawn up by politicians who wanted out of Palestine at any cost.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 14 Jul 14 - 02:40 PM

In other words, GregF,

YOU refuse to engage in a reasonable discussion, and will not tell us what YOUR solution would be.

That is what I expect from you. No surprises here.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 14 Jul 14 - 02:35 PM

Go back to sleep, Goofus.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 14 Jul 14 - 02:00 PM

OK, let's 'bottom line' this...Greg or Jim, What should Israel DO after missiles are fired at them?

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 14 Jul 14 - 01:54 PM

Jim would rather lie for no reason than to provide facts to support his own viewpoint.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 14 Jul 14 - 01:53 PM

"As you have declared Chomsky antisemitic...."

I stopped reading right there because you are lying again with the first six words of your post so the remainder of your post has no credibility to me.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 14 Jul 14 - 01:47 PM

Sorry to disappoint you Jim.

YOU are the one who has been shown by your own posts here to be an anti-Semite by EU standards.

The others you mention have not posted here, so we cannot judge them.

"YOU have been judged, and found wanting."

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Jul 14 - 01:20 PM

"Carroll has time and again shown himself to be antisemitic"
As you have declared Chomsky antisemitic and have chosen to ignore Einstein completely, I revel in the company I find myself in.
You have yet to mention Haaretz, 'Jews for Justice', the ex heads of the Israeli Secret Service who condemned the Israeli regime in terms ranging from 'extremist' to 'Nazi', the Israeli servicemen who mounted an exhibition on the maltreatment of Palestinians in Dublin last month, the Israeli soldiers who have set up their own organisation to expose Israeli war crimes.... and all the other Jews who deplore what Israel is doing in the name of the Jewish people.
Israel certainly does seem to be producing a large number of 'Antisemites'.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 14 Jul 14 - 12:35 PM

"And again, the tired old anti-Semitism cum Nazi card is played, demonstrating a dearth of valid argument."

No Greg, Carroll has time and again shown himself to be antisemitic as defined by the European Union Monitoring Centre on Racism and Xenophobia (EUMC). That is easily verifiable by looking at his posting history. The fact that you repeatedly defend his vileness is revealing.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 14 Jul 14 - 12:28 PM

Musket,

I admit I prefer those that do not commit war crimes. That means I dislike Hamas.

I have presented enough reports of what Israeli forces are doing to reduce civilian casualties that the statements here to the contrary require a lot more proof, or at least evidence, than has been presented to be of value in this discussion.

I admit that some here are supporters of those that declare their intent is to kill Jews. I dislike those people, and object when they lie about what I have said, or about what I believe.

If you have a problem with this, let me know-


And I will point at YOU and laugh.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 14 Jul 14 - 12:24 PM

A transparent attempt to deflect from your own foul antisemitism - no one is fooled.

And again, the tired old anti-Semitism cum Nazi card is played, demonstrating a dearth of valid argument.

Boring. And silly.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Musket
Date: 14 Jul 14 - 12:19 PM

Beardedbruce calls others liars for exposing his bigotry.

Let's all point and laugh.

After all, if I turn on BBC News, I'd probably not laugh at all....

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Ed T
Date: 14 Jul 14 - 11:29 AM

In conflict, as with sport, some folks favour one side, some the other. Each side mostly seek out the bad in the oposing team/side, not the good. In team sports, and with conflict, it is often difficult to divorce oneself from objectively viewing the favoued team/side. In this situation, those not favouring either side are viewed suspiciously by both sides. Unlike in conflict, few people, participants or spectators, die in sport.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 14 Jul 14 - 11:05 AM

"you continue to refer to 'Jews' rather than Israelis"

Are you claiming that Hamas is trying to kill Muslim Israelis as well as Jews? If you are I suggest you take a look at their so-called Charter.

"further proof of your Antisemitism."

A transparent attempt to deflect from your own foul antisemitism - no one is fooled.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 14 Jul 14 - 11:04 AM

Jim,

"
"Israel is targeting Hamas militants and their bomb-making machinery"
No they are not and do not have the capability of doing so, even if they wished to.
"


1. YOU have not provided any evidence for your present set of lies.

2. It is relatively say to locate individual homes- Gaza has directories.

3. It is even easier to trace back to the launch points of rockets- and attacks on those launch points are certainly in self-defense.


Are you stating that Israelis do not have a right to kill those that are trying to kill them?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 14 Jul 14 - 10:52 AM

#1492 (post) and the year Spain exiled the Jews and Moors (Muslems)

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Jul 14 - 10:50 AM

"Israel is targeting Hamas militants and their bomb-making machinery"
No they are not and do not have the capability of doing so, even if they wished to.
The claim to be targeting militant's homes, which, of course, includes their and their neighbour,s women and children - but in fact they are in fact destroying entire towns and villages in Northern Gaza.
So far, 10,000 residents have been forced to flee, with more to come.
"The problem simply put: no Jews are dying."
Not a problem , just a simple fact - so far, the now-approaching 200 deaths have all been Palestinians, a large number of those children.
In order to hide behind the six-million dead to excuse State terrorism, you continue to refer to 'Jews' rather than Israelis - further proof of your Antisemitism.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 14 Jul 14 - 10:29 AM

"Israel is targeting Hamas militants and their bomb-making machinery which they hide in residential areas, in mosques, in hospitals and now carts in market-places. There are no rules of engagement amongst Hamas militants. There are no "Officers and Gentlemen" there. At the same time, Hamas is being given a pass for this cowardly behaviour. Why? Do the media give a free pass to the militants in Syria and Iraq who also have no desire to prevent civilian death?

American, Canadian and British media attack Israel, their sister in democracy. They all end their reports, voices dropping, with the words "And no deaths in Israel." As if there were something wrong with that. How dare Israel not suffer deaths from Hamas bombs!

They don't report that Israel spent billions building the Iron Dome or bomb shelters to protect her people from constant rocket attack from Gaza: years of random attacks on civilian centres-not military. They don't report that Hamas took all the money they received-from people like you and me in the West-supporting them through the UN and tax dollars, and spent it on military acquisitions, too many from Iran, rather than improving the lives of their people."

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 14 Jul 14 - 10:18 AM

"No Israelis have been killed as a result of Hamas rocket launches."

"The problem simply put: no Jews are dying. That is the pity of it all. It would be so much better if there were more "proportionality." After all since this latest round of attacks that began in earnest on July 7, there have been more than 800 rockets fired at Israel, 582 landed. There should have been deaths.

These rockets, thankfully, were either destroyed by The Iron Dome or landed away from populated areas although there have been injuries and destruction of property. But not enough death and destruction to satiate the media to warrant pity from them, pity that comes so easily for those who are dying in Gaza because of their government's actions, or is it inaction, not Israel."

If only Jews had died!

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 14 Jul 14 - 09:42 AM

Peter Enav, Associated Press
Monday, July 14, 2014

In the sixth day of an offensive that has killed more than 160 people, two Israeli airstrikes struck the southern Gaza city of Khan Younis, killing four Palestinians, according to officials from the city's European Hospital.

The officials said Saddam Moamar, his wife Hanadai, and his father Mousa were killed by an airstrike that hit their house. Their neighbor, Maher Abu Mor, was killed in another airstrike while standing on the rooftop of his home, the officials said, speaking on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to talk to media.

It was not immediately clear why their homes were targeted.

In all, the Palestinian Health Ministry in Gaza has said that at least 175 people have been killed in Israeli air attacks, including dozens of civilians.

No Israelis have been killed as a result of Hamas rocket launches.

Also Monday, a 21-year-old Palestinian was killed during confrontations with Israeli soldiers in the West Bank village of Samoa, near Hebron, Palestinian health officials said. Residents of the village said soldiers opened fire at a group of Palestinians who were throwing stones at them. The officials and the villagers spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to talk to media.

The Israeli army confirmed the death and said it was looking into the incident.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 14 Jul 14 - 09:09 AM

The Palestinian representative to the UN Human Rights Council in Geneva said that every rocket and mortar fired from Gaza toward Israel is a "crime against humanity."

Speaking on July 9 to Palestinian Authority TV on the possible risks involved if Palestinians leaders ask to join the International Criminal Court — as they have threatened to do in order to push for measures against Israel — Ambassador Ibrahim Kraishi said the "Palestinian weakness" in terms of international law is the indiscriminate firing of rockets at Israel.

"The missiles that are now being launched against Israel, each and every missile constitutes a crime against humanity, whether it hits or misses, because it is directed at civilian targets," said Kraishi during the interview, translated by MEMRI.

The ambassador said that, by contrast, Israel's actions follows legal procedures, because the IDF warns Gazan civilians to leave sites and areas before they are bombed.

The Times of Israel

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 14 Jul 14 - 08:50 AM

Egyptian TV Hosts Slam Hamas Leaders: We Are Sick and Tired of You

YouTube