BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 01:25 PM

Yeah right Greg like there is an equivalency between Israel and Hamas.

There is. That's what you've missed. Or are blind to.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 01:06 PM

"Course they say that, just as the butchers of Lidice had evidence that the townspeople were sheltering the killers of Heydrich - oldest trick in the world"

I could give several examples of lies told against Israel just from memory, but not any examples of israel doing it.
I know all governments do, so they must, but none come to mind.
Help me out Jim.
Can you think of any?

Anyway, it is not just Israel who say that Hamas sites its positions among civilians.
It is an established fact.
UN has criticised them for it, and all news agencies have reported it.


"All Hamas sites are placed among civilians."
So all civilians are legitimate targets - according to you mob (if it were true)"

No Jim.
I am amazed that you find the rules so hard to grasp.
Civilians must NEVER be targeted.
Hamas still does, but Israel does not.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 01:02 PM

"total surrender, no less."

Those are your words but I agree that the ideal solution for the population of Gaza would be the removal of Hamas.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 12:50 PM

You missed a bit Booboo – total surrender, no less.
Jim Carroll

From the Jerusalem Post
Cabinet ministers: IDF may have to reconquer all or part of Gaza to ensure security
By LAHAV HARKOV 07/21/2014 14:03
Likud Minister Erdan says operation can't be stopped until a demilitarized Gaza is ensured; says Israel may have to reconquer northern Gaza.
Home Front Defense Minister Gilad Erdan Photo: Marc Israel Sellem/The Jerusalem Post
Security Cabinet members said Thursday that the IDF may need to re-conquer all or part of Gaza to ensure Hamas does not continue to attack Israel.
Communications Minister Gilad Erdan said during a visit to Ashkelon Monday that the IDF must continue fighting until it ensures long-term calm.
"We cannot stop the operation while it is still unclear whether the Gaza Strip will be demilitarized or not. If that means the IDF needs to stay in the northern Gaza Strip to ensure quiet, then we will have to reconquer the area near its northern border," Erdan said.
The cabinet member added that he hopes there will not be a ceasefire in the coming days, until the threat of terror tunnels, with which Israel cannot live, is removed.
Strategic Affairs Minister Yuval Steinitz, visited Ashkelon, as well.
"The fighting will continue for a long time and could include more expansions," Steinitz said. "If we need to, we will take over the whole [Gaza] Strip."
Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee chairman Ze'ev Elkin (Likud) said "this is not an easy morning. We are all with the families of the fallen and the injured. This is not a simple operation...This is the nature of war, so we are not surprised."
According to Elkin, Israel had no choice but to start this operation, which he called a war, and that it will save Israeli lives.
"This is the national consensus," he added.
Elkin pointed out that more people will die, but "this is a war on our home."
When visiting injured soldiers, Elkin found that they all called to continue the fighting "all the way."
"We won't stop in the middle and won't allow Hamas to grow stronger from this operation," he stated.
Defense Minister Moshe Ya'alon told the Knesset Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee Monday that the IDF will call up reservists and continue fighting until quiet is returned.
Overnight Sunday, more forces entered Gaza to find terrorist tunnels in new areas of the Strip, Ya'alon told MKs, saying it is unfortunate that Hamas terrorists harmed IDF soldiers.
"We are prepared to continue the operation as long as necessary, and, if necessary, to enlist more combat forces from the reserves until we bring quiet to the Gaza Strip," Ya'alon stated.
Ya'alon listed several efforts being made as part of Operation Protective Edge: The central one, to destroy terror tunnels, stopping rocket and missile shootings at different ranges.
The IDF struck over 2,700, including rocket launchers, tunnels and terrorists' homes, he added.
"These efforts are bearing fruit while the Iron Dome almost completely neutralizes attempts to harm Israel's cities," he explained. "It seems that we have found a reasonable response to this threat."
Related articles
Netanyahu: IDF's achievements so far are 'better than expected'
Livni: No policy to reoccupy Gaza, but if rockets don't stop, 'all options on table'

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 12:41 PM

Yeah right Greg like there is an equivalency between Israel and Hamas. Are you just being an idiot or is that your hatred on display?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 12:22 PM

Sounds good, Boo - as long as they de-militarize Israel at the same time.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 11:49 AM

May be the only viable solution that can save lives - if not, Hamas will be obliterated...at a very high human cost.

Mofaz's Gaza 'demilitarization for dollars' plan gains traction
By GIL HOFFMAN
07/21/2014 17:06

Netanyahu, Peres endorse idea that calls for the international community to oversee the demilitarization of the Gaza Strip.

The plan calls for the international community to oversee the demilitarization of the Gaza Strip using the same system that is successfully ridding Syria of chemical weapons. In return, Arab countries and the international community would provide the Palestinian Authority with fifty billion dollars to rehabilitate refugee camps and build the Gaza Strip.

The sum was based on a Canadian assessment of what would be required to build up the Gaza Strip economically. Mofaz, who wrote the plan long before the operation in the Gaza Strip began, said it could take up to six months to negotiate and up to a year to implement.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 11:30 AM

"They say they do have evidence, and their int. is considered world class."
So is their propaganda machinery.
Course they say that, just as the butchers of Lidice had evidence that the townspeople were sheltering the killers of Heydrich - oldest trick in the world
Massacre on boys, it becomes your "Christianity"
"All Hamas sites are placed among civilians."
So all civilians are legitimate targets - according to you mob (if it were true)
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 10:54 AM

We all also now have direct evidence that they launch missiles from sites adjacent to hospitals.
We have seen it actually happen during interviews!

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 10:51 AM

is targeting hospitals and schools where there is no evidence of resistance fighters

They say they do have evidence, and their int. is considered world class.
We all now have evidence that they use schools Jim.
Are you OK with that?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 10:48 AM

Then Israel is deliberately bombing homes, schools, hospitals and health centres - (you have the figures for the latter three) - which is a war crime.

It would be if it was indiscriminate, but it is not.

Re flechettes.
Most weapons are intended to kill and maim by driving bits of metal at high velocity into and through people.
That is legal and includes flechettes.
Any such weapon can be used illegally.

All Hamas sites are placed among civilians.
That does not mean that Israel is forbidden to defend itself from their illegal and indiscriminate attacks.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 10:38 AM

"Assad couldn't begin to compete"
I pointed out that Assad couldn't begin to compete with the decades of preparation Israel have put into their moment of triumph - quite capable of comparing big numbers, thank you.
There is no evidence as to where Hamas has sited its forces - certainly not in hospitals, as the doctor quoted pointed out.
Israel is either guilty of indiscriminate bombing or is targeting hospitals and schools where there is no evidence of resistance fighters - take your pick
"And you complain because not enough Israelis have been killed"
I do not complain of any such thing, I always know when you have run out of ideas by when you resort to openly lying - keep it up Beardie - yet another holocaust denier creeps out of the woodwork.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 10:30 AM

"Not enough dead Israelis for Jim"
No-one should be dead Bruce - you people are the only ones who have dismissed killing here
Hamas is not responsible for the casualties any more than any resistance to terrorism is responsible, from Israeli freedom fighters, to wartime resistance to the Nazis, is responsible.
Hamas is guilty of resisting Israeli terrorism - go and count their victims
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 10:27 AM

Oh dear, another bout of serial postarrhoea.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 10:07 AM

Jim,

YOU posted: " Assad couldn't begin to compete."


So over 150,000 dead Syrians, mostly civilians is OK by you, while 400 Palestinians is far worse- because YOU blame Israel????



And you complain because not enough Israelis have been killed when they have announced their targets and locations in order to reduce Palestinian civilian casualties? NO other nation has gone so far in trying to reduce civilian casualties- and given the world reaction, I doubt if any will in the future.

That will be the fault of you and those you support, that blame Israel for the human shield set up by Hamas.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 10:01 AM

"Then Israel is deliberately bombing homes, schools, hospitals and health centres - (you have the figures for the latter three) - which is a war crime."


No.

Not a war crime, as has been explained a sufficient number of times that you are proven to be deliberately lying.


ANY MILITARY INSTALLATION IS A LEGAL TARGET.

HAMAS HAS SITED MILITARY INSTALLATIONS IN HOMES< SCHOOLS< AND HOSPITALS >>>WHICH IS A WAR CRIME YOU KEEP SILENT ABOUT<<<

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 09:45 AM

The reason that there were THAT many Israeli casualties is that Israel has ANNOUNCED were they were going to attack, IN AN EFFORT TO REDUCE PALESTINIAN CIVILIAN CASUALTIES. Had they attacked unannounced, the likelihood is that Hamas would not have been able to set up traps head of time, and few Israelis would have been killed- but the PALESTINIAN civilian death toll would have been MUCH higher.

By the way, there were more civilians killed in Syria yesterday that in the last week in Gaza- but you keep strangely quiet about ANY civilian casualties that you cannot (FALSELY) blame on Israel.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 09:36 AM

Not enough dead Israelis for Jim….



No admittance that it is HAMAS that has been responsible UNDER THE LAW for those Palestinian civilian casualties- Not to meantion the other was crimes that have been stating they were doing.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 09:29 AM

"Jim, your flechette link did not work."
Look for another one you moron
"There is no indiscriminate bombing from The Israeli side."
Then Israel is deliberately bombing homes, schools, hospitals and health centres - (you have the figures for the latter three) - which is a war crime.
You have the civilian casualty figures (Israel's "unprecedented" dead amounted to 13 yesterday and 1 earlier, devastating, compared to the handful of Palestinian men women and children slaughtered to date)
You are an appeaser of war crime and terrorism.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 09:25 AM

Hamas's use of civilians and civilian buildings in Gaza as a shield is well known. Media reports tell of rockets being launched from residential buildings and schoolyards, munitions stored in houses, mosques and hospitals, Hamas leaders using civilian homes as command posts, and civilians being encouraged to go up on their roofs as human shields. These reports unfortunately rarely, if ever, mention that such conduct violates the law and, even more important, puts civilians at ever greater risk of death and injury.

Using human shields is not a romanticized effort at neighborhood defense — it is a war crime. Using hospitals as munitions depots or sites for rocket launchers endangers every civilian who needs medical treatment, because once the hospital is used for military purposes, it loses its protection from attack. Using houses for all manner of military activity amounts to using the civilian population as a shield and risks the life of every civilian in the neighborhood. This conduct demonstrates that Hamas not only views every civilian and every city in Israel as a target — which is wholly illegal — but that it also views every civilian and every neighborhood in Gaza as an expendable pawn in a propaganda war, a tragic and equally illegal approach."


Laurie R.Blank is clinical professor of law and director of the International Humanitarian Law Clinic at the Emory University School of Law.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 09:23 AM

As ever Musket, you attack me for things I never have and never would say.

It is a war crime for fighters to operate close to such structures without first evacuating them.
It is not illegal to engage such war criminals even if civilian casualties are likely.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Musket
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 08:58 AM

Any chance of shutting up in the name of decency yet?

The international community has told Israel to stop their terrorist actions.

By the way Keith. Saying that bombing a hospital is ok because Hamas had soldiers nearby is beneath even your low level of morality. Wannabe soldiers seem to he about the most repugnant observers of conflict as it is. You really are showing a side I used to laugh at but the laughter is getting rather hollow now.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 08:48 AM

Jim, your flechette link did not work.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 08:44 AM

There is no indiscriminate bombing from The Israeli side.
That would be a war crime.
It is what Hamas does.

The Al Wafa Hospital is in Shajayea.
That is now a battlefield because that is where Hamas is.
Of course it had to be evacuated.
It should have been done days before when the advance warnings began.

Those warnings should have prevented any single civilian casualty.
That was what Israel wanted, but not what Hamas wanted.

Because of those warnings, Hamas was ready and waiting for IDF in well prepared ambush positions.
That is why IDF are suffering an unprecedented rate of casualties.
A sacrifice to try and save Palestinians.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 08:30 AM

Israel has not only the right but the obligation to protect its civilians from remorseless rocket attacks. Hamas, which took power in Gaza seven years ago, has been the instrument of that terror. The deaths of Palestinians, many of them children, are the direct and predictable outcome of Hamas's tactics and its use of civilians as, in effect, human shields. Instead of providing good governance and economic development, anticipating statehood, Hamas practises theocratic thuggery. Palestinians are paying an unconscionable price.

The Sunday Times

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 08:26 AM

"Hamas deliberately puts its citizens in harms way in order to score propaganda points"
No it does not - it fights from among the people under attack
What the **** do you expect them to do Booboo set up in the desert, so the Israeli thugs can drop a bomb on them, then get on with its slaughter of civilians?
Feckin eejit - you really are a 'bear of very little brain'.
Both Israel and Hamas have been accused in the past of using 'human shield' - there has never been a question of this happening here, other than in accusations by the Israeli State terrorists and their supporters to justify this bloody carnage.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 08:18 AM

First it was rubbish that hospitals are being destroyed,
Then it moved on to hospitals are being destroyed after the patients have been ten minutes to clear the buildings - an that's apparently acceptable,
Now we're back to
"Hamas deliberately puts its citizens in harms way in order to score propaganda points. "one hospital had been reduced to rubble there would be hundreds of casualties and every news agency would make it their lead story."
Gaza in being shelled and bombarded indiscrimin
ately - yesterday was the worst.
Palestinian casualties numbered 62 dead, and 400 wounded, among te dfead were 17 children, 14 women and 4 elderly.
The area has been declared a 'humanitarian crisis', with 80,000 people in 61 shelters.
Ad you piss about with "it couldn't have happened because it hasn't been reported" and such shit - what kind of a 'Christian' are you that minimises such inhuman slaughter, (and what kind of appeasing moron defends you with word-games about sayings like "suffer the children").
No comment on 'flechette' weapons yet, from any of you - now there is a surprise   
Probably allowed by some war convention or other, consequences be damned - except it isn't - not used in this way.
This sort of thin certainly brings them scurrying out of the woodwork
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 07:11 AM

Hamas deliberately puts its citizens in harms way in order to score propaganda points.

Israel sets up a field hospital to treat those injured civilians.

They even saved the life of a Hamas terrorist....because they are human and humane.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 07:04 AM

Amnesty today.
"When the al-Wafa rehabilitative hospital in Shuja'iyyeh came under fire for a second time on 17 July, staff were forced to evacuate all the patients, reportedly under fire, and then the hospital was destroyed. "

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 06:58 AM

Al Wafa Hospital has been partly destroyed, with few casualties because the patients were moved out.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 06:46 AM

Jim, if one hospital had been reduced to rubble there would be hundreds of casualties and every news agency would make it their lead story.
It has not happened once, never mind three times.
You are losing touch with any sane reality.

"Civilian deaths harm Israel and help Hamas."
They do neither, you stupid little propaganda spouter - Israel doesn't give a fuck and Hamas loses support of the people.

If Israel could destroy the missiles and tunnels without hurting anyone, they would not be under massive US and international pressure to hold back and let Hamas get on with it.

If they are forced to stop, Hamas will have won.
Civilian deaths hurt Israel, and they sacrifice their own soldiers by giving warnings to evacuate.
Civilian deaths help Hamas, and they prevent the civilians from escaping.

"Indiscriminate bombing" in densely populated cities would cause tens or hundreds of thousands of deaths.
It is not happening.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 06:38 AM

"All often minutes"
Should read "all of ten minutes" before 'Terrytoon the Typo Scorer' wakes from his slumber with his usual cries of triumph.   
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 06:15 AM

"Hospitals have been hit because Hamas sites positions in and near them."
Indiscriminate bombing tends to have this effect.
"No hospital has been reduced to rubble."
Three hospitals destroyed suggests that they could well have been
You have evidence for your claim - the Israelis told you none have,no doubt!
"Civilian deaths harm Israel and help Hamas."
They do neither, you stupid little propaganda spouter - Israel doesn't give a fuck and Hamas loses support of the people.
"All often minutes in the case of the area where the attacked hospital report came from.
"John Osborne "
A pun on 'angry old man' Wesker was the only one I had any real time for - acted in Chicken Soup and Barley once and have just re-seen 'Jerusalem'
It will be interesting to see if the reported use of flechette shells by Israel, anti-personnel missiles which spray thousands of tiny darts down on all below, elicit any comment in the form of justification, or are totally ignored – don't rush – the betting shop's open all day.
FLECHETTE
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 04:55 AM

"a different 'Gentle Jesus' who was said to have 'walked among the poor', and 'blessed the meek' and 'the peacemakers'.
His 'Christianity' puts an entirely new slant on the phrase, 'suffer the children'"
,..,

The one who came to bring, not peace, but a sword, I daresay.

It is a piece of the grossest ignorance to imagine that "suffer the little children to come unto me" has anything to do with undergoing unpleasant experience: "suffer" in this sense and context just means "allow".

What was that most conservative & "reactionary" of playwrights John Osborne doing here, I wonder? Not the sort that Mr Carroll would usually appeal to for political or emotional support, I should have thought.

I suppose we'll get his usual plea that he got carried away emotionally by the force of his rhetoric, or whatever the usual formulation.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 04:19 AM

Hospitals have been hit because Hamas sites positions in and near them.
No hospital has been reduced to rubble.

Civilian deaths harm Israel and help Hamas.
Consider the implications of that stark fact.

Israel, in defiance of all military logic, gave prior warning of exactly where and when it was going to act.
Civilians were given safe routes to evacuate by, and Israel negotiated refuges for them with UN.

Hamas told them not to go until too late.
Until many had been killed.
It harms Israel and helps Hamas to have civilians killed, especially children.
Consider the implication.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 03:49 AM

"Civil"???
'There comes a time in all men's souls' when the flow of bile and inhumanity.... to misquote The Kingson Trio.
One minute the destruction of hospitals is:
"make up the ludicrous "hospitals pounded to rubble" invention."
Next minute reduces to:
"Israel could easily reduce all Gaza's hospitals to rubble in just a couple of strikes. It is self evident that they are not trying to"
Now, after "Three hospitals, five health centres and seventy two schools" - silence, not worth a mention, what they deserve, allowed for by the rules of war.... whatever.
At least David Irving made an effort to give a little respectability to his hatred with pseudo-historical research - with this gobshite its just they didn't do it because they said so.
As I said, "Holocaust denier shit!", pure and simple.
Keith more than once has declared himself a Christian, and in the best condescending Christian tradition, informed me that he 'prayed for us' - his regular outpourings of hatred and inhumanity must be have come from a different 'Gentle Jesus' who was said to have 'walked among the poor', and 'blessed the meek' and 'the peacemakers'.
His 'Christianity' puts an entirely new slant on the phrase, 'suffer the children' - god save us all from all such religions.
"so do a lot of people with political persuasions"
Why is it so important with you people to pin a "political persuasion" on those you disagree with - rhetorical question - it saves you the bother of trying to deal with the points they raise.
One of you bent over backwards some time ago to get me to state my political position and allegiances - handy weapon to give to those you disagree with in these arguments.
I have no allegiances - I despise or distrust most politicians, and those I do respect leave me uneasy by their chosen careers, and their exposure to corruption and betrayal.
If anything, inhumanity, injustice and cruelty does it for me every time - enough here for me to end my life an angry old man.
Where's Osborn, Pinter and Wesker when you need them? - have to do with Loach, Dobbs and Plater I suppose - ah well!!   
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 20 Jul 14 - 11:41 PM

Well, clearly GFS, more on your & K's side than some others, although, as I never tire of saying, the way Israel has turned out is unhappily not what we hoped and worked for all those days of my far-off youth; & indeed constitutes probably the greatest disappointment of my entire long life.

But, try as I might to "consider all things", you & I clearly have somewhat differing ideas as to what the concept of "civility" subsumes...

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 20 Jul 14 - 10:41 PM

Hey man, he believes what he believes....so do a lot of people with political persuasions...but he does post from articles which supports his views, rather than the antics of the wannabe block-headed ideologues with no basis, other than, 'that's the way I think it SHOULD be.
That said, I think that if he ever locked onto the truth about the matter, and put aside the 'blame game', and perceived 'rights or wrongs', he'd be rather outspoken, without the antics, than a lot of other feeble brained people, who don't know 'why' they believe that way, other than it being part of the 'liberal package'!!
I hope in the exchange of info and ideas, a greater understanding comes out of it....BUT...it still would be interesting to hear what would he, or any of the others, would say what they think Israel SHOULD do, not only as the missiles are being launched at them, but in the overall.
Israel is NOT going to just go away, and they are the only solid democracy over there...what do you think they should do?
(NOT a trick question!).

Respectfully to both Keith and Jim!

GfS

P.S. Keith, you and I, are in more agreement about this, as you can tell from prior posts....I just want to be hipped to the 'plan' as alluded to by Jim.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 20 Jul 14 - 09:30 PM

All things considered, Yes!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 20 Jul 14 - 05:34 PM

"Jim, Though I heartily disagree with you, and I believe your position is mightily flawed, I commend you for keeping your side of the 'debate' civil and to the point"
GFS 0122 PM

"Holocaust denier shit!"
Jim Carroll 0110 PM


"Civil"???

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 20 Jul 14 - 03:22 PM

Since July 9, 417 people have been killed in Gaza, among them more than 100 children, and more than 3,000 injured.

What say, Jim, we take up a collection to send FW Keith to Gaza to experience the situation first hand?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Jul 14 - 02:56 PM

"It is self evident that they are not trying to."
Three hospitals, five health centres and seventy two schools makes it quite "self-evident" that they don't give two monkeys who or what they hit - go and count the dead civilians if you have any doubt of this.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 20 Jul 14 - 02:22 PM

Jim, Israel could easily reduce all Gaza's hospitals to rubble in just a couple of strikes.
It is self evident that they are not trying to.

On two separate occasions I have seen reporters speaking from a hospital suddenly drowned out by the roar of rocket launches.

Thanks for telling us about a "PLO" press conference.
They are not famously reliable you know.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Musket
Date: 20 Jul 14 - 01:51 PM

The body count is rising.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Jul 14 - 01:42 PM

"o Hamas is both targeting civilians and Hamas is hiding behind civilians."
Whatever I may think of Hamas - and I've already made my position clear on that one - Hamas is standing between Israel and the Palestinian people - without them, there would be no viable opposition to Israeli State terrorism - set a dog to catch a dog, it would appear.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 20 Jul 14 - 01:22 PM

Jim, Though I heartily disagree with you, and I believe your position is mightily flawed, I commend you for keeping your side of the 'debate' civil and to the point, as far as being on topic!!

that said, consider: ""So Hamas is both targeting civilians and Hamas is hiding behind civilians. That's a double war crime, and therefore all civilian deaths as regrettable as they are fall on their shoulders."

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Jul 14 - 01:17 PM

"While the Israeli pilots have mostly targeted residential houses, Gaza's infrastructure and public buildings suffered too. According to figures from a PLO press conference on Tuesday, the partial damage extended to 72 schools, three hospitals and five other health centers, eight ministries and 64 mosques. Three mosques were completely destroyed. -
ISRAELI DESTRUCTION
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Jul 14 - 01:10 PM

"We could discuss that."
We could - ut you haven't, nor will you.
I was referring to shells being fired at the hospital in question that they went right through it and entered the building next door - photographs available.
I have little doubt that, due to the indiscriminate nature of Israel's assault, there are hospitals, and schools, and medical centres - you name it, now lying in ruins - that's the nature of heavy artillery being used on civilian areas.
Just been looking at television footage of the result of Israel's latest triumphs - children being carried from the rubble of destroyed builldings - must confess - they are too far gone to tell whether they are hospitals or not.
Rational or not to assume tat they are quite possibly hospitals?
Holocaust denier shit!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 20 Jul 14 - 12:55 PM

"So Hamas is both targeting civilians and Hamas is hiding behind civilians. That's a double war crime, and therefore all civilian deaths as regrettable as they are fall on their shoulders."

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 20 Jul 14 - 12:51 PM

U.N ambulance help Hamas terrorists to flee from the IDF

This video is from a previous conflict between #Israel and Hamas.
It shows Hamas #terrorists fleeing the scene of a shootout with #Israeli soldiers in the back of a U.N. ambulance.
This is how "humanitarian" measures are being cynically used to further terrorism in #Gaza!

YouTube