BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Jul 14 - 05:47 AM

Letter to the Irish Times this morning
Jim Carroll

'Cycle of violence'
Sir, - The deaths of three Israeli teenagers (murders we condemn) received front-page coverage in your paper (July 1st). Such human suffering and loss of life is always deplorable and deserves front-page cover¬age.
What we fail to understand is why the regular abductions and murders of young Palestinians by the Israeli army are denied the same attention.
Many questions come to mind as we read the article by Mark Weiss. His account gives the impression that these events took place in a sovereign territory and not in an occupied territory under full Israeli army control.
Moreover, and throughout his article, Mr Weiss omits to mention the words "occupied" and "settlers", nor does he make reference to the two weeks of harsh collective punishment imposed on the entire Palestinian population as the Israeli army searched for the three teenagers. In those two weeks, nine Palestinians were killed, two died of heart attack when the army raided their houses, tens were injured, many were orphaned, 640 were arrested, and families saw their homes demolished by the Israeli army.
Surely a prestigious newspaper such as The Irish Times should endeavour to be as impartial and objective as possible. This could be achieved by having journalists actually venture into the occupied West Bank, thus relaying the two sides of the story and its consequences for people on both sides of the Separation Wall (built by Israel within the occupied West Bank and declared illegal by the International Court of Justice exactly 10 years ago).
Security and peace cannot be achieved by force and violence. It is only by ending Israel's occupation of the West Bank and implementing a two-state solution that we will have a fair chance for peace.
We hope that the subsequent abduction and murder, this morning, by Israeli settlers of Mohammad Hussein Abukh-deir, a 16-year-old Palestinian boy from Jerusalem whom they tortured before burning his body, will receive the same attention. - Yours, etc,
AHMAD ABDELRAZEK,
Ambassador of the State of Palestine to Ireland,
Mount Merrion Avenue, Blackrock, Co Dublin.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Jul 14 - 02:55 AM

"official military air strike as anyone's having"
Unless military technology has developed beyond our knowledge recently, official military air strikes are little more than revenge attacks on a civilian population rather than an attempt to prevent rocket attacks - rather like executing one in ten of the population of a town when one of your generals gets shot.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 03 Jul 14 - 12:59 AM

Just to say, re a post a few back (0601 pm), that I can't see how anyone without an aggressive axe to grind could construe an official military air strike as anyone's having "taken the law into their own hands". It was, on the contrary, an example of a measured government response to provocation.

Some people do get confused from time to time, don't they? Or else hope to confuse the rest of us with irrationalities.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 02 Jul 14 - 10:59 PM

Aw Greg you let me down - I was hoping for better than that from you.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 02 Jul 14 - 10:09 PM

Well, Boo, I see its your same old litany of BS that anything the Israeli government does is AOK because someone else: 1. did it first or 2.did it worser and that anyone that criticises the Israeli government is an anti-Semite.

Boring. Yawn.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 02 Jul 14 - 09:32 PM

Israeli jets carried out 15 precision strikes in the Gaza Strip early Thursday morning, in response to rocket fire on Israeli cities throughout Wednesday and into Thursday. At least 10 Palestinians have been injured, according to initial reports.

On Wednesday night and early Thursday morning, three rockets fired from Gaza exploded near residential buildings in the southern city of Sderot, causing damage to the buildings and to several vehicles as well as cutting off power to several streets in the city, officials said.

Two of the rockets hit residential buildings while a third fell against a reinforced shelter inside the city but did not cause damage.

There were no reports of casualties.

Two other rockets fired earlier fell in open fields outside the city, security officials said.

Over 20 rockets were fired from Gaza throughout Wednesday, repeatedly setting off warning sirens across the Gaza periphery.

Read more: Israeli aircraft strike 15 Gaza targets in response to rocket fire | The Times of Israel http://www.timesofisrael.com/israeli-aircraft-strike-15-gaza-targets-in-response-to-rocket-fire/#ixzz36MgbVZBu
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Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 02 Jul 14 - 09:12 PM

BTW Greg this is Israel's response to the atrocious murder of the young Palestinian boy:

Netanyahu's office promised a speedy investigation to find "who is behind this despicable murder and the background to this act," according to a statement from his office.

"Netanyahu calls on all sides not to take the law into their own hands. Israel is a country of law and everyone is ordered to act according to the law."

This is Hamas' response to the murder of the three young Israelis:

Some Hamas officials expressed their disappointment that the three teenagers were found dead, rather than left alive to be used as a bargaining chip for the release of Palestinian prisoners in Israeli jails.

"The body of three settlers discovered," wrote Hamas MP Mushir Al-Masri on his Facebook page. "Better luck next time, God willing."

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 02 Jul 14 - 07:05 PM

You tell us Greg since you're the one making the association. Of course it wouldn't have anything to do with the 60 rockets and 11 mortars fired into Israel from Gaza in the past three weeks now, would it Greg. No because to mention that wouldn't make for effective propaganda would it Greg? We know too well Hamas' motivation for anti-Jew propaganda Greg - what is yours?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 02 Jul 14 - 06:01 PM

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu... . called on all sides "not to take the law into their own hands"

Oh really? How many folks that had nothing to do with the kidnapping/deaths ya figure were killed in the Israeli air strikes on Gaza?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Jul 14 - 03:13 PM

"Lip service"
?
"Whoever did it, it's an act of barbarism"
No lip service there Mike - unlike you and your little band, I have never taken sides in this war.
If you mean I didn't take to the streets attacking the first Arab I met, as is happening in Israel at the present time - nope, I leave that to those with the lynch-mob-mentality.
Astonishing indeed, by your low standards of humanity
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 02 Jul 14 - 02:49 PM

"As Reuters reported, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu quickly condemned the killing and told Israeli police "to swiftly investigate who was behind the loathsome murder and its motive." He also called on all sides "not to take the law into their own hands," but more specifically meant the suspected perpetrators."

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Jul 14 - 02:38 PM

I also think the reprisal killing despicable.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 01 Jul 14 - 01:04 PM

Hamas paying their respects:

Rockets fired at southern Israel as three teens buried

Missiles hit Eshkol region; 'this has become a national day of mourning,' Netanyahu says; separate services held before burial on day after bodies found; Israel vows to apprehend killers 'dead or alive'

Read more: Rockets fired at southern Israel as three teens buried | The Times of Israel http://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-hunts-for-two-suspects-in-teens-murder/#ixzz36EmA12Pg



Read more: Rockets fired at southern Israel as three teens buried | The Times of Israel http://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-hunts-for-two-suspects-in-teens-murder/#ixzz36ElqeD7c
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Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 01 Jul 14 - 12:03 PM

Richard Kemp, former Commander of British Forces in Afghanistan, spoke in 2011 about Israeli operations in the Gaza War. He said that a study published by the United Nations showed 'that the ratio of civilian to combatant deaths in Gaza was by far the lowest in any asymmetric conflict in the history of warfare.' He stated that this ratio was less than 1:1, and compared it favorably to the estimated ratios in NATO operations in Afghanistan (3:1), western campaigns in Iraq and Kosovo (believed to be 4:1), and the conflicts in Chechnya and Serbia (much higher than 4:1, according to anecdotal evidence).

    Kemp argued that the low ratio was achieved through unprecedented measures by the IDF to minimize civilian casualties, which included providing warnings to the population via telephone calls, radio broadcasts and leaflets, as well as granting pilots the discretion to abort a strike if they perceived too great a risk of civilian casualties. He also stated that the civilian casualties that did occur could be seen in light of Hamas' tactical use of Gazan civilians 'as human shields, to hide behind, to stand between Israeli forces and their own fighters' and strategic use of them for exploitation of their deaths in the media.

Civilian Casualty Ratio

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 01 Jul 14 - 11:28 AM

Astonishing priorities you have, Jim. Only thing wrong, to hear you tell it, is that it is liable to redound counter-productively on the Palestinians by giving the villainous Israelis something else to oppress them for. At least you stopped short of denouncing it, as some Arabists have apparently done, as the work of Israeli agents provocateurs -- just about! "Act of barbarism", eh?. Coming on, you are, in the lip·service stakes. Keep it up!

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Jul 14 - 11:15 AM

"still no evidence about this particular abduction"
Whoever did it, it's an act of barbarism and, if the Palestinians are involved, totally counter-productive.
The Israelis will, no doubt, use it to inflict further suffering and indignities on the Palestinians, and to extend its programme of expansionism.
There have been 1,658 children's deaths in the area over the last dozen years - 129 of them Israeli, 1,529 Palestinian - there were 300 Palestinian children killed in 2009 alone - the overwhelming majority of them being of of those simple going about their everyday lives.
The killing of civilian citizens, particularly is inexcusable, though there are those who have chosen to highlight the ones that can be used as emotional capital to push an agenda.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 01 Jul 14 - 10:27 AM

It appears that over the years Hamas has been systematically engaging in the abduction doctrine...

Blah, Blah, Blah. More blather, still no evidence about this particular abduction.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 01 Jul 14 - 08:01 AM

Fatah calls slain teens 'soldiers'

In its first reaction to the kidnapping ordeal that ended tragically yesterday with news of the three teens' deaths, the Fatah movement described the victims as "soldiers" rather than students, Palestinian Media Watch (PMW) says.

The movement, headed by Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas, posted on Facebook photos of grieving Israelis coupled with the caption: "Israelis crying over the three killed soldiers, whose bodies, according to Israeli claims, were found this evening in Hebron, 19 days after they disappeared."

Read more: Slain teens to be buried side by side Tuesday afternoon | The Times of Israel http://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-hunts-for-two-suspects-in-teens-murder/#ixzz36DXqXwTw
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Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 01 Jul 14 - 07:44 AM

It appears that over the years Hamas has been systematically engaging in the abduction doctrine. This while improving and honing its operative aspects pursuant to the lessons learned from actual abductions and attempted abductions, expending efforts to introduce this combat doctrine into the consciousness of the activists and motivating them to act when the need arises.

[It should be noted that although references were made in the handbooks to kidnapping operations targeting Israeli soldiers, the 12 June kidnapping of three Israelis involved two 16-year-old high school students and a 19-year-old seminary student. Hamas has made many efforts to falsely portray these teenagers as soldiers, including in the June 23rd Al-Jazeera interview with Hamas leader Khaled Mashaal.]

The Kidnapper's Handbook by Hamas

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 01 Jul 14 - 07:27 AM

the circumstantial evidence is quite strong - or can't we even agree on that?

Possibly. However,

"Circumstantial evidence is a very tricky thing," answered Holmes thoughtfully. "It may seem to point very straight to one thing, but if you shift your own point of view a little, you may find it pointing in an equally uncompromising manner to something entirely different....Conan Doyle

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 01 Jul 14 - 06:06 AM

Marwan Qawasmeh and Amar Abu Aisha have brought Hamas to a place where its leadership never intended to go. By kidnapping the three Israelis, the Qawasmeh family decided to take the leaders there anyway. In each of the previous events, Hamas' political leaders were forced to align themselves with the movement's military wing. Not one of them dared to say anything. They wouldn't dare condemn a kidnapping ostensibly intended to release Palestinian prisoners held by Israel, or to denounce some terrorist attack, ostensibly launched in retaliation to the assassination by Israel of some Hamas activist or other.

And now for the dispute between Israel and Abbas. We have already noted that Israel holds Hamas responsible for the abduction, while the PA considers the actions of the Qawasmeh family a "gray area," which cannot be used as an indicator for what is happening within Hamas. That is why Abbas is not taking apart yet the unity government he formed just two weeks before the abduction, a government that was supposed to represent a fresh start in the relationship between Fatah and Hamas.

That is also why Meshaal said in an interview with Al Jazeera, "We cannot deny nor can we confirm that Hamas committed the kidnapping." Meshaal also added that he has no idea where the abducted teens are.

At this point, it is quite possible to believe Meshaal when he says that he knew nothing about the kidnapping and that he has no idea what happened to the teens. But Meshaal and the leaders of Hamas have a problem. As long as they don't denounce the Qawasmeh family, and as long as they let the family take them down a dead end time after time, the leaders of the movement will be forced to pay the price.

Abu Shanab, Yassin and Rantisi paid with their lives for what the Qawasmeh family did. Hamas is all tangled up in the same trap, with and Israeli sword hovering over them again. This time, however, when the sword lands, Hamas will not be able to lay all of the blame on the rebellious Qawasmeh clan from Hebron.

Read more: http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2014/06/qawasmeh-clan-hebron-hamas-leadership-mahmoud-abbas.html##ixzz36D4Pg1A4

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Teribus
Date: 01 Jul 14 - 02:17 AM

Simple if neither Hamas of Fatah were responsible and it happened in "THEIR" territory all they (Those "governing" the Arabs of Palestine) have to do is find those responsible and bring them to justice or hand them over for the Israelis to try. Or would that not be in their interest? Ask the Taliban, they were given a similar proposition and turned it down - they've bitterly regretted it ever since and so have their Pakistani ISI "Masters". Hamas had best batten down the hatches, retribution is on the way as sure as night follows day, hopefully it will be in the form of targeted strikes over a protracted period, as that will induce them to keep their heads down and prevent them from instigating any more instances of unprovoked attacks against a civil population.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 01 Jul 14 - 12:24 AM

For some reason between about 7:30pm mddt & 8:30pm mddt (4:30 to 5:30 here) could not connect to the 'Cat. Had I been so able I would have told Greg F. that while I had read (to that time ) no hard evidence pointing towards Hamas or Hamasites, the circumstantial evidence is quite strong. --or can't we even agree on that? As someone has already presented the Israeli case, I will not repeat any of that.

I was speaking with my pharmacist in Israel (price of my drug about 25% of USA price, and quicker by nearly three weeks to receive than from my former Vancouver, BC supplier -- but I digress). We spoke of the heinous kidnappings which had occurred earlier in the week. He said he was sure they were already dead, then, because a) no person or group was taking credit for the crime, and b) because no demands had been made for a ransom/exchange/release. It seems he was correct, based on what I read today.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 30 Jun 14 - 11:57 PM

For Guest @ 5:54---

Normally I would not bother to respond to an anonymous participant (I think that cowardly and unfair, anonymity that is), but since I suspicion you are Guest,Troubadour [hereinafter GT-are you?] I will.

My post was in the vein of GT right down to the all caps "SURPRISE."
GT suggested if we had a that thread was not about Israel, we would not pick on Israel...the point was to show that was not true. Perhaps, though, you missed it.

You also wrote that you did not participate in the referenced thread. I cannot know that since I don't know who you are (anonymity, again). If you are GT, I recall that there were no posts you. But I never claimed there were, so what's your point?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 30 Jun 14 - 10:06 PM

Right, Boo. You have no evidence.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 30 Jun 14 - 08:28 PM

"could not carry any vote without the support of a minimum 47 non Muslim majority states voting in their favour."

Do some research on the number of abstainers.... before showing yourself up for a fool.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Jun 14 - 08:23 PM

"Why don't you tell us how many UN resolutions censoring Israel last year alone?"

Do you think that the 50 Muslim majority countries in the UN might have something to do with that?"

192 members of the UN, each with one vote so, NO! It would appear that 50 Muslim majority states could not carry any vote without the support of a minimum 47 non Muslim majority states voting in their favour.

However, it only takes ONE veto to block each resolution, and a swift scan of the veto list shows that every resolution censuring Israel or relating to the Palestinian situation has been blocked by the USA.

There are NO Muslim majority countries on the Security Council, and there is little likelihood of there ever being any, with or without the power of veto.

So Israel is Teflon coated, thanks to Uncle Sam!

You should do some research before showing yourself up for a fool.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 30 Jun 14 - 07:19 PM

I'll try it again - you have no evidence that they are not members of Hamas.

Tippity-tap-tap, tippity-tap!

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 30 Jun 14 - 06:36 PM

associated with the Palestinian militant group Hamas.

So if two Masons had kidnapped them, then the kidnapping would have been "By The Masons"?

I think not. And it is incumbent upon you as the one making the claim, to present evidence to support it.

I'll try it again: So you have no evidence?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 30 Jun 14 - 06:29 PM

Well Greg, Israel's Shin Bet security service has identified the kidnappers and murderers as Marwan Qawasmeh and Amer Abu Aisha, associated with the Palestinian militant group Hamas. If you don't believe that and have evidence to prove otherwise it is incumbent upon you to present it. Put up or shut up.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Jun 14 - 05:54 PM

"And the longer the thread went on, the more that thread became about, surprise SURPRISE—you got it—Israel. So much for your sarcasm."

No posts from me on that ridiculously broad based to the point of total inanity thread, so stuff your sarcasm.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 30 Jun 14 - 05:42 PM

The boys were killed shortly after being kidnapped. Here's how it went down:

What happened on the night of the kidnapping

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 30 Jun 14 - 05:42 PM

So the answer is "none", Boo?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 30 Jun 14 - 05:18 PM

Palestinian Arabs attacked an Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) ambulance humvee on Monday that was transporting the recently discovered bodies of three murdered Israeli boys who were kidnapped on June 12, an Israeli source told The Algemeiner.

The Muqata blog posted an image of the damaged vehicle on Facebook writing, "8:44pm IDF Ambulance humvee transporting the bodies of the boys attacked by arabs….windows smashed."

In the picture, the ambulance's windshield is shattered and splattered with paint.

An IDF spokesperson would neither confirm nor deny the report.

The IDF on Monday discovered the bodies of the three abducted teens — Eyal Yifrach, Gilad Shaar and Naftali Frankel — following extensive searches.

The bodies were found near Hebron in an area north of the community of Telem. The families of the abducted teens have been notified.

PHOTO

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 30 Jun 14 - 05:11 PM

Some Hamas officials expressed their disappointment that the three teenagers were found dead, rather than left alive to be used as a bargaining chip for the release of Palestinian prisoners in Israeli jails.

"The body of three settlers discovered," wrote Hamas MP Mushir Al-Masri on his Facebook page. "Better luck next time, God willing."

Hamas has jumped the shark. Israel will exact retribution.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 30 Jun 14 - 05:05 PM

And your proof that Hamas is to blame is....?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 30 Jun 14 - 02:03 PM

Hamas has done it again - destroyed another possibility of a peace agreement.

Now watch the blame Israel chorus start when they retaliate - Hamas knows how to play the Jew haters of the world like a fiddle.

Bodies of Abducted Israeli Teens Found: Report

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 29 Jun 14 - 05:20 PM

Adding to Keith's post:

There are no illegal settlements - unless of course one assumes that Jews should not own property or build in those areas because they are jews. Every current Jewish "settlement" is on land owned by Jews before 1948 or purchased after 1967. Settlements that tried to set up on land that was not Jewish owned have been dismantled. We continue to hear the term "illegal", but "legal and illegal" has to be more that political desires and interests. It has to refer to law. And, frankly, law established during the illegal Jordanian occupation of the area in which jewish property was confiscated and retitied, and current PA regulations that ban sales or ownership of property by Jews is not valid.

Just more uninformed, anti-Israeli bullshit to demonize a people.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Jun 14 - 04:50 PM

The bombing of Gaza is directed at the war criminals launching illegal, indiscriminate attacks on ordinary Israeli people.

If Gaza could only be persuaded to stop committing those wicked crimes, there would be no reason for Israel to strike back.
That would bring hope.

More and more of the West Bank invaded

It has only been invaded once by Israel, and that to fight off invaders of Israel.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 29 Jun 14 - 02:18 PM

Small hope for iiiiii/ Palestine

More and more of the West Bank invaded, more and more illegal settlements, bombing of Gaza.

This thread is a waste; there is no hope for the Palestinians.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 29 Jun 14 - 02:37 AM

Oh right. UN is stuffed with Muslim countries now...

Poor bloody Israel eh ?

Their record will always be bloody whilst ever idiots keep making excuses for them.

Note the word "United" in UN.

Out of interest, other than me, who else here has travelled on business to both Israel and Palestine? Not that it was officially called Palestine but I digress.

It's just that some of the shit I am reading seems to contradict my own observations and experiences. A bit like the "Muslim" country with a state brewery and pork section in the main market in the capital. Reality rarely meets prejudice.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 29 Jun 14 - 02:16 AM

Last night Guest, Troubadour snarkily wrote, "Er......because it's a thread with the title "Small hope for Israel/Palestine"?" "Start a thread about other abuses and expect to get answers and comment about those abuses, but in a thread about Israel v Palestine, surprise SURPRISE! We talk about Israel and Palestine." Well, Troubadour, not exactly!

Four years ago and a week shy of a month a new thread was introduced by bobad, 'BS: Atrocities (Other Than Israeli).' I mentioned that thread on this one some weeks ago. I noted there, then, that it took all of four (as in 4) posts to turn the thread in to being about (alleged) Israeli atrocities. And the longer the thread went on, the more that thread became about, surprise SURPRISE—you got it—Israel. So much for your sarcasm.


Greg F., just to reminisce I perused many of my posts on that thread, and others that struck a chord with me. A person named Roberto made some very cogent arguments. I wish I wrote half so well as he. You posted there as well. What really struck me was that then, as now, you do not understand the meaning of the word 'theocracy', as I told you the other day.
--Greg F. [posting 4 years ago] Query: Why are theocracies like Iran & the Taliban universally condemned while the theocracy that is Israel universally praised? --
QED.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 29 Jun 14 - 12:09 AM

Do you think that the 50 Muslim majority countries in the UN might have something to do with that?

Anyone got any idea what this sentence is supposed to mean? (Steve Shaw
.,,.

Yes, Steve. It couldn't be clearer. I bet you have every idea too, and are just being obstructive & disingenuous.

Or else you are sillier than has yet appeared, for all your occasional forays into point-missing deflection & obscurantism.

But just in case you really did miss it, the poster meant that all these Muslim countries represented in the UN General Assembly would as a matter of course vote for any motion purporting to censure Israel for anything whatever; so mentioning the number of motions censuring Israel as if that were some sort of incontovertible knockdown argument is a patent exercise in futility by overlooking this obvious shortcoming in the UN-censuring process.

Geddit now? Don't go on, please, pretending that this obvious point was incomprehensible to your oh-diddums-poor-little intellect...

Regards

~Michael~

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: GUEST,Troubadour
Date: 28 Jun 14 - 08:42 PM

"Israel's security barrier has saved thousands of lives both Israeli and Palestinian. Israel wouldn't need the security barrier, if acts of incitement and terrorism against it stopped."

It is still a barrier with which one faction imprisons another.

Ipso facto A PRISON! And since it is not an enclosed building, or complex of buildings, it is a PRISON CAMP!

This is a term with which you would have NO problem whatever, were it ANY other nation than Israel doing the imprisoning.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 28 Jun 14 - 08:36 PM

Israel's security barrier has saved thousands of lives both Israeli and Palestinian. Israel wouldn't need the security barrier, if acts of incitement and terrorism against it stopped.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: GUEST,Troubadour
Date: 28 Jun 14 - 08:06 PM

"These scarcely merit a few posts until the topic once again returns to Israel. Why is that Greg?"

Er......because it's a thread with the title "Small hope for Israel/Palestine"?

Start a thread about other abuses and expect to get answers and comment about those abuses, but in a thread about Israel v Palestine, surprise SURPRISE! We talk about Israel and Palestine.

NOW do you understand?

Sheesh! Will they ever stop playing the victim card?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: GUEST,Troubadour
Date: 28 Jun 14 - 08:00 PM

"referring to Gaza as a prison camp etc. This is antisemitism as per the EUMC - now Fundamental Rights Agency (FRA)."

What else would YOU call an enclave which constrains a population within barbed wire fences with armed guard guards controlling entry, exit and supplies of essential food and materials?

If it isn't ipso facto a prison camp, What the fuck IS IT you halfwit?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Jun 14 - 07:32 PM

Singling out Israel for opprobrium. Just consider the thousands upon thousands of posts about Israel at Mudcat vs. the meager no. of posts concerning the human rights abuses, genocides, occupations etc. going on all over the world. These scarcely merit a few posts until the topic once again returns to Israel. Why is that Greg? I'll tell you why in one word Greg - that word is antisemitism whether you like it or not.

Let me try to explain the thing you don't understand. First, antisemitism is an attack on Jews because they are Jews. You OK with that? Second, one hundred thousand posts that attack the Israeli regime for their policies or aggressions beyond their own legal borders does not amount in the slightest to antisemitism. But one single post attacking those Israeli actions because they are carried out by Jews is antisemitic. Thousands of posts criticising Israel for its actions do not in any way amount to antisemitism. I criticise the Israeli regime's actions all the time, but always because I vehemently disagree with them, not because they are carried out by Jews. I haven't a clue as to whether the people carrying out those actions are practising Jews,lapsed Jews or whether they're even all ethnic Jews. I don't give a toss. What I do give a toss about is what is right and what is wrong. I really hope this helps. Of course, it won't if you Bibi's uncle. I absolutely hate your country's serial foreign policy outrages and I hate your gun laws and I hate your corporate anti-democracy and I hate the fact that your mass media is so good at lying to you that almost all your population is hoodwinked almost all the time. But I don't hate it because you're yanks. I hate it all for what it is. Spot the subtle difference. Oops, sorry, forgot. You don't do subtle, do you?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Jun 14 - 07:10 PM

Do you think that the 50 Muslim majority countries in the UN might have something to do with that?

Anyone got any idea what this sentence is supposed to mean?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 Jun 14 - 06:50 PM

It is my job neither to look for damning posts from you, nor to determine that you have never so argued.

Well, John, it is apparently your job to slander by innuendo.

Good to know who - or what - I'm dealing with.