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BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: mousethief Date: 11 Jun 10 - 12:37 PM The problem with Silverstein's account, EmmaB, is that the IDF are the single best-trained army in the world. The idea they would go off their heads and start shooting randomly because one of their member was taken belowdecks is very hard to swallow. And if that was the case, how could the commander who let this happen be awarded a medal of valor, rather than a court-martial? That would show extremely poor judgment and humanitarianism on the part of the Israeli state. Oh, wait. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies) Date: 11 Jun 10 - 12:43 PM "The Pixies, has been put on Canada's list of "terrorist" organizations" I find this both jaw-dropping, and genuinely worrying for its implications concerning how the Canadian govt. may extend such a policy to other forms of completely peaceful protest. What I wonder, are the ultimate logical consequences of the band being placed on a list of 'terrorist organisations'. Meaning what *in theory* could happen to them, were members of such a 'terrorist organisation' to enter Canada. And thus by extension, anyone who might similarly peacefully protest and be similarly black-listed by the state as 'terrorists'. The Pixies of course are not all that likely to suffer anything much from such a policy, but the implications for Canadian citizens themselves, is potentially extremely worrying. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies) Date: 11 Jun 10 - 12:50 PM Sorry about the thread drift btw. I don't mean to take the thread off track - but it does seem to say some very serious things about the current govt. in Canada. If I were a Canadian citizen, I'd be deeply concerned about the implications regards my civil liberties, freedom of expression and so-on. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: Emma B Date: 11 Jun 10 - 12:52 PM CAN YOU MAKE AN INTERNATIONAL BOYCOTT ILLEGAL? - The Land of Israel, a right-wing parliamentary lobby group committed to Jewish settlement of the West Bank seems to think you can….. The Independent Friday, 11 June 2010 "What do The Pixies, Elvis Costello, and Salam Fayyad, Prime Minister of the Palestinian Authority, have in common? A cursory glance might suggest not much yet all have deeply irked Israel. When Mr Fayyad first embarked on a door-to-door campaign to persuade Palestinians to shun all products made by Jewish settlers, the Israeli public simply shrugged. But when veteran crooner Costello peered into his conscience and pulled a scheduled appearance in Tel Aviv, Israelis sat up and took notice. Embattled and increasingly isolated, a group of politicians are now proposing a bill that would outlaw boycotts against the Jewish State, both homegrown and international. After last week's deadly raid on the flotilla, US rock band The Pixies cancelled their gig. Several other bands have followed suit, prompting Israeli music promoter Shuki Weiss to complain that performers are waging a form of "cultural terrorism". Human rights activists, meanwhile, decried efforts by politicians to alienate those critical of Israel with new legislation. "We have wild right-wing politicians presenting wild demagogic bills ... which create a very nasty public atmosphere," said Adam Keller, spokesman for Gush Shalom, an Israeli NGO that has joined calls for a boycott of settler-made goods. "If this is passed into law, it would mean a total breakdown between Israel and the PA." If I... were a Palestinian, I would certainly join the boycott that is being imposed on the settlements and their products," wrote Yossi Sarid, a commentator in liberal Israeli newspaper Ha'aretz. "After all, it would not be human to expect me to buy my tombstone from people who were determined to bury my hopes for a good life and independence." " However Rod Stewart and Elton John are still scheduled to perform in Israel later this year and meanwhile, authors Margaret Atwood and Amitav Ghosh, the joint recipients of an Israeli literary award, have ignored calls from activists to refuse the prize |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies) Date: 11 Jun 10 - 01:04 PM "a group of politicians are now proposing a bill that would outlaw boycotts against the Jewish State, both homegrown and international." I see, so refusing to be a part of something you personally find morally wrong, may potentially be criminalised. Well I guess it wouldn't be the first time... And it's not just worrying for Canadians then. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 11 Jun 10 - 01:50 PM If there had been firing before the landing, there should be evidence on the shipboard videos. None of them show it happening I have always understood that it is not very easy to get a photograph of a bullet in flight. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: mousethief Date: 11 Jun 10 - 01:54 PM How would they enforce this ban? Would the US be obligated to deport me to Israel for trial if I don't buy something from Israel every week, say? |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: Emma B Date: 11 Jun 10 - 02:22 PM mouse thief, The boycott calls for Palestinians to shun all products made in the Jewish settlements, most of which sit on expropriated Palestinian farmland and are regarded as illegal under international law. Should the proposed bill pass in its current form, it would force boycotters to pay compensation to any settlers who claim their business had suffered. If approved therefore, it could theoretically force the Palestinian Authority to pay thousands of dollars in compensation to Jewish businesses affected by the Fayyad-led boycott campaign, Additionally, any foreign citizens calling for a boycott of Israel, would potentially be banned from visiting Israel for 10 years. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: mousethief Date: 11 Jun 10 - 02:34 PM I'm not referring to the internal boycott (are Israeli laws enforced in the occupied territories? Then why can't they vote?), which I understand is a serious thing, but rather to the international. Wouldn't boycotting Israel in part mean not visiting? Outlawing offshore boycotts is a clutching-at-straws desperation move. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: CarolC Date: 11 Jun 10 - 03:20 PM People in another thread have brought up the possibility that the item about the government of Canada putting The Pixies on their list of terrorist organizations is a hoax. I hope they are right about that. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 11 Jun 10 - 04:58 PM Wouldn't a law in the US against calling on people to boycott Israel be in breach of your First Amendment? |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: CarolC Date: 11 Jun 10 - 06:04 PM I think the bill that's being discussed is an Israeli bill, McGrath. As far as I know, Israel does not have a constitution. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: beardedbruce Date: 11 Jun 10 - 06:17 PM CarolC: "As far as I know, Israel does not have a constitution." Partially correct: The Basic Laws of Israel (Hebrew: חוקי היסוד, ḥŭḳḳēi ha-yyǝsōd) are a key component of Israel's constitutional law. These laws deal with the formation and role of the principal state's institutions, and the relations between the state's authorities. Some of them also protect civil rights. While these laws were originally meant to be draft chapters of a future Israeli constitution, they are already used on a daily basis by the courts as a formal constitution. Israel currently functions according to an unwritten constitution consisting of both material constitutional law, based upon cases and precedents, and the provisions of these formal statutes. As of today, the Basic Laws do not cover all constitutional issues, and there is no deadline set to the completion of the process of merging them into one comprehensive constitution. There is no clear rule determining the precedence of Basic Rules over regular legislation, and in many cases this issue is left to the interpretation of the jurisdictional system. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: CarolC Date: 11 Jun 10 - 06:21 PM One of the passengers who was kidnapped by the Israelis has reported that his credit card has been used since it was confiscated by the Israeli government. Nobody has yet had their passports returned, and they are concerned that the Israeli government will clone them and use them in the commission of murders as they did recently with some Irish and Australian passports. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: CarolC Date: 11 Jun 10 - 06:23 PM There is no clear rule determining the precedence of Basic Rules over regular legislation, and in many cases this issue is left to the interpretation of the jurisdictional system. All of which is another way of saying there is no constitution, but if you're lucky, they will pretend there is. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: Paul Burke Date: 11 Jun 10 - 06:30 PM And, of course, as BB has probably pointed out in the past*, Stalin's Russia had the most democratic constitution in the world. *Most rightwing nutters do at some point. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: Paul Burke Date: 11 Jun 10 - 06:31 PM Oh, and that was 1066, which has to have some kind of significance. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: beardedbruce Date: 11 Jun 10 - 06:46 PM Wasn't that when the native Anglo-saxons were overrun by Europeans, and lost their lands? AFter driving out the Kelts, of course... |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 11 Jun 10 - 06:49 PM An Israeli law seeking to outlaw a boycott would probably greatly assist people trying to impose an anti-apartheid style boycott on Israel. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: CarolC Date: 11 Jun 10 - 06:50 PM I have received an email from the author of the piece about the Pixies being put on Canada's list of terrorist organizations. He said he was satirizing "the Canadian government's slavish devotion to Israel". I am very relieved. I would be amused if I didn't find the situation he's satirizing so tragic. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: Lox Date: 11 Jun 10 - 07:05 PM BB posts opinions on some subjects that I find as far from my way of looking at the world as it is possible to get. But he has also made some fundamentally important points in the past that I have not only agreed with, but that I have been moved by and that have changed my outlook in fundamental ways. In addition, even in this thread, he has clearly shown himself to be a man of character and fairness. Calling him a nutter is akin to describing a two dimesnional entity in three dimensonal terms - meaningless. If it wasn't for the emptiness of such a comment it might be viewed as an unfair slur. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: Lox Date: 11 Jun 10 - 10:00 PM Typo "Calling him a nutter is akin to describing a two dimesnional entity in three dimensonal terms - meaningless." Should have read: "Calling him a nutter is akin to describing a three dimesnional entity in two dimensonal terms - meaningless." I hope the tone of the post was clear enough for that to be plain. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: bobad Date: 11 Jun 10 - 10:15 PM According to the UN Human Development Index the people of Gaza live better off than people in Indonesia, India, Viet Nam, South Africa, Morocco, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Kenya, Sudan, Tanzania, Nigeria and Egypt. If there is no mass starvation, then why the aid flotillas? Why not send them to Egypt? http://hdr.undp.org/en/statistics/ |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: number 6 Date: 11 Jun 10 - 10:18 PM Good question Bobad. Can anyone provide an answer to this? biLL |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: Lox Date: 11 Jun 10 - 10:29 PM 1. Aid goes to all these countries. 2. Being better off than the poorest in these counries is not hard. I've been to about half of them and seen how horrendous the poverty is. To say that Gaza is better off than them is not a claim to fame for Gaza. 3. The difference between Gaza and the countries you have listed is that Aid is not allowed in to Gaza in sufficient quantities. There are no restrictions on Building materials, toys, meat, school books etc etc in the countries you have listed The UN also reports that 75% of essential goods goin in to Gaza are smuggled from egypt. (link provided earlier in thread) So the problem in Gaza is the Blockade. The solution to the humanitarian crisis in Gaza is for the blockade to be challenged. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: CarolC Date: 11 Jun 10 - 10:33 PM Because they live in the world's biggest (open air) prison. The majority of them are dependent on foreign aid and food assistance to live (and they would rather be allowed to take care of themselves), because the blockade has completely crushed their economy. Because many of them are still living in tents since the massacre that Israel committed in Gaza in the winter of '08/'09 (that's more than a year after the massacre). Because all of their civil infrastructure was destroyed by Israel so they don't have the ability to process their raw sewage, and they have to dump it into the sea, and doing that is killing all of the fish (what's left of them) in the tiny little patch of water that they can fish in without getting shot by the Israeli terrorists. Because their ability to generate electricity was severely crippled by the Israeli terrorists and they have to rely on generators to get electricity a lot of the time and the generators are killing people. Because the Israeli terrorists don't allow in a lot of life-saving medicines and people are dying because of it. And most Gazans aren't allowed to leave Gaza to get needed medical treatment elsewhere, and people are dying because of it. Because Israel doesn't allow them to have incubators and babies are dying because of it. Because while they're not starving to death, they are severely malnourished. Because children aren't allowed to have paper, pencils, crayons, school books and other things they need to get a good education so they can become self-sufficient adults. Because the Israeli terrorists are treating them like they are not human beings, and nobody deserves to be treated that way. Really, you guys. You both sound like two of the most uncaring, and callous people I've ever encountered. Let the eat cake! Eh! |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: Lox Date: 11 Jun 10 - 10:39 PM Bobad, PS - I Just followed your link ... Guess what ... on the page you provided is a list of countries ... AND GAZA ISN''T ON IT. So much for that evidence! You are a waste of time and effort, and your new found puppy No.6 needs to get his nose out of your ass and smell the coffee. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: CarolC Date: 11 Jun 10 - 10:41 PM That's probably because Gaza is not a country. Israel has made sure of that. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: Lox Date: 11 Jun 10 - 10:49 PM Wait - its included under the all inclusive umbrella of Palestinian Occupied Territories. So the figures are heavily moderated by the quality of life in the rest of the occupied palestinian territories. That would be handy for somebody trying to give a misleading impression of the figures, but unhelpful for someone trying to determine quality of life in Gaza specifically. I wonder where Gaza would come in the table if it were presented in isolation. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: number 6 Date: 11 Jun 10 - 10:49 PM Oh Bobad ... yer about as misleading as Crow Sister ... Geeezuz H. But until June 8th Egypt was participating in the blockade. biLL |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: bobad Date: 11 Jun 10 - 10:52 PM Entry 110 - Occupied Palestinian Territories |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: CarolC Date: 11 Jun 10 - 10:56 PM Egypt is still participating in the blockade, at the command of the Egyptian He's letting a few people out, but that's about it. And my own opinion is that the only reason he's even doing that much is to provide people like you with more excuses to perpetuate the illegal and utterly immoral blockade. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: Lox Date: 11 Jun 10 - 10:58 PM Bobad, You're late. see my post of: - 11 Jun 10 - 10:49 PM Number 6. That is precisely why there have also been activists protesting on the egyptian side, and why there have been smugglers breaking the Egyptian Blockade. In fact, as I have stated, 75% of Gaza's essential goods are smuggled in from Egypt. (Link already provided by me near the start of the thread). Egypt hasn't murdered any of them yet. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: CarolC Date: 11 Jun 10 - 11:02 PM Actually, that's no longer true. Egyptian forces blew a few of them up inside the tunnels. The problem with the tunnels is that the goods that come through there are too expensive for most Gazans to be able to afford, since most Gazans are unemployed and goods coming through the tunnels are much more expensive than regular goods would be because they are black market items. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: Lox Date: 11 Jun 10 - 11:10 PM That is very sad news. And Egypt needs to be held to account alongside Israel. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: number 6 Date: 11 Jun 10 - 11:13 PM damn right they do. biLL |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: CarolC Date: 11 Jun 10 - 11:16 PM They won't be held to account. As long as they're willing to commit those kinds of atrocities at the behest of Israel, they will be protected by both Israel and the US. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: number 6 Date: 11 Jun 10 - 11:18 PM oh BTW ... "Egypt is still participating in the blockade" ... from what I understand as of June 8th Egypt has lifted the blockade ... temporarily at least. biLL |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: bobad Date: 11 Jun 10 - 11:18 PM "So the figures are heavily moderated by the quality of life in the rest of the occupied palestinian territories." I suppose you can provide some data for that claim. In case you missed it earlier here is a link I provided that shows the hardships which are being endured by the Palestinians in Gaza http://www.tomgrossmedia.com/mideastdispatches/archives/001114.html Oh and don't miss the videos, they will make your mouth water |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: CarolC Date: 11 Jun 10 - 11:24 PM h BTW ... "Egypt is still participating in the blockade" ... from what I understand as of June 8th Egypt has lifted the blockade ... temporarily at least. That's the spin that's being put out there, but it's only partially true. They're still not allowing goods to go in, and they're only allowing a few people to go out. For the most part, the blockade is still being enforced by Egypt. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: CarolC Date: 12 Jun 10 - 12:47 AM bobad, the situation in Gaza is being grossly misrepresented in your link. For one thing, most Gazans can't afford to eat at posh restaurants or stay in posh resorts. This is because they can't get jobs because the Israeli terrorists have destroyed their economy. And that video was made before the blockade was tightened to the extent it is now. The last time Mahmood Abbas (who is in that video) was in Gaza was before Hamas was elected. You're spreading lies and propaganda. Here's the facts... ___________ The amount of goods allowed into Gaza by Israel falls far short of the minimum required to avoid malnutrition, poverty, and prevent or treat a variety of illnesses. According to Amnesty International's recently-released annual report, the siege has resulted in "mass unemployment, extreme poverty, food insecurity and food price rises caused by shortages." Consider the following statistics: * 61 percent of households face food insecurity, defined as inadequate physical, social or economic access to food, and rely on assistance from aid agencies. An additional 16.2 percent are considered vulnerable to food insecurity. [2] * 65 percent of the food insecure are children under the age of 18. [3] * Unemployment is at 40 percent [4] * 10 percent of children under five are stunted (low height for age, usually attributed to a chronic lack of protein and micronutrients, including iron and essential vitamins), a steadily increasing trend over recent years, according to UNICEF. [5] * More than 10 percent of children are chronically malnourished, according to the World Health Organization, a significant increase since siege began. * The number of children under five suffering from acute malnutrition nearly doubled between 2006 and 2008 from 1.4 to 2.4 percent, according to UNICEF. * 65 percent of children aged 9-12 months, and 35 percent of pregnant women are anemic. [6] * According to a recent poverty survey conducted by the United Nations Relief and Works Agency, the number of Palestinian refugees completely unable to secure access to food and lacking the means to purchase even the most basic items, such as soap, school stationery and safe drinking water ('abject poverty') has tripled since the imposition of the blockade in June 2007 * A majority of Gazans experience rolling blackouts of up to 12 hours a day, every day as a result of a chronic shortfall in electricity production resulting from the blockade [7] * Due to insufficient wastewater treatment capacity, Gaza's water authorities release 60-80 million liters a day of raw and partially treated sewage into the Mediterranean Sea, in order to avoid sewage flooding residential areas. * Water supply for domestic use is insufficient, raising hygiene and health concerns. In order to pump water to households, the water wells must receive electricity in synchronization with electricity supply to the same households. Almost all the households receive water for only 5-7 hours a day. 3. Does the blockade prevent the functioning of Gaza's economy? Yes. Export of Palestinian goods, the import of raw materials and access to Gaza's natural resources have been severely restricted. For example: * Roughly 118 truckloads of strawberries and cut flowers exports were permitted to leave Gaza between December 10, 2009 and May 2010. Before the blockade, an average of 70 truckloads a day left Gaza during strawberry season. [8] * Since January 2009, the Israeli navy has illegally restricted Palestinian fishermen's access to three nautical miles offshore, yet in practice Israel often limits fishermen to only two nautical miles, reducing their catch by 47 percent. [9] * 46 percent of Gaza's agricultural land is inaccessible or out of production either due to destruction of lands caused by Israeli military attacks or by its "security buffer zone." [10] * Roughly 90 percent of Gaza's factories are closed or are functioning at less than 10 percent capacity because of the inability to obtain raw materials and the inability to export finished products [11]. * The Israeli human rights organization Gisha provides the following example of how the blockade aims to prevent economic development: "Israel permits Gaza residents to receive small packets of margarine, considered a consumption item. Israel bans, however, the transfer of large buckets of margarine, because the buckets are designed for industrial use, rather than home consumption, meaning that they could be used to allow a local factory to produce biscuits - and thus engage in economic activity. Similarly, requests to permit empty cans into Gaza - intended for the preservation and marketing of Gaza-produced tomato paste - have been refused, but requests to transfer prepared, Israeli-made tomato paste are permitted." [12] |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: CarolC Date: 12 Jun 10 - 12:50 AM This is only a partial list of banned items. There are many more. 4. What are some of the items Israel has prohibited from entering Gaza? * sage * cardamom * cumin * coriander * ginger * jam * halva * vinegar * nutmeg * chocolate * fruit preserves * seeds and nuts * biscuits and sweets * potato chips * gas for soft drinks * dried fruit * fresh meat * plaster * tar * wood for construction * cement * iron * glucose * industrial salt * plastic/glass/metal containers * industrial margarine * tarpaulin sheets for huts * fabric (for clothing) * flavor and smell enhancers * fishing rods * various fishing nets * buoys * ropes for fishing * nylon nets for greenhouses * hatcheries and spare parts for hatcheries * spare parts for tractors * dairies for cowsheds * irrigation pipe systems * ropes to tie greenhouses * planters for saplings * heaters for chicken farms * musical instruments * size A4 paper * writing implements * notebooks * newspapers * toys * razors * sewing machines and spare parts * heaters * horses * donkeys * goats * cattle * chicks [13] http://imeu.net/news/article0019136.shtml You really are one of the most callous and unfeeling people I have ever encountered. I bet you don't even see Palestinians as human beings. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: CarolC Date: 12 Jun 10 - 01:22 AM http://www.oxfam.org.uk/oxfam_in_action/emergencies/gaza_crisis.html "One year since the Israeli military offensive, codenamed Operation Cast Lead, the Gaza Strip remains in a protracted crisis. Of the 1.5 million people in Gaza, 80% depend on humanitarian aid. This was already the case before the 22-day war that began on 27 December 2008. But today, the consequences of that war still overwhelm the coastal strip, as badly-needed reconstruction materials remain banned from entering Gaza." |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: CarolC Date: 12 Jun 10 - 01:54 AM More passenger testimony... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Gp8ECrDQLg&feature=related |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: Penny S. Date: 12 Jun 10 - 05:32 AM Yesterday I went to buy carrots. The only carrots not in too large bags for me came from Israel. I bought no carrots. So sue me, Israel. Penny |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: Lox Date: 12 Jun 10 - 05:41 AM Bobad - that video is 3 years old. Do you have anything current? Bobad - Gaza was blitzed during December 2008 and January 2009. Remember? It was on the news quite a lot. Since then, Gazans have been denied materials to rebuild and denied essential supplies. The west Bank hasn't been through a similar assault. Are you going to try to convince us that Gaza and the west bank are on a par in terms of the standard of living? It is fact that is easily established by reading through the numerous links on this thread, that Gaza is in a considerably worse state than the west bank. The west bank has access to bulding materials, medicine and food in a way that Gaza simply hasn't. The figure for the occupied territories as a whole is an average figure. That Average figure is already very low. If you examine your page more carefully you find that GDP per capita in occupied territories is a 5th of what it is in Egypt. It follows that Gaza is significatly worse off again. Bobad - ALL your arguments and ALL your evidence havebeen refuted successfully so far. And you have provided a lot. Even if you were to post something current and relevant now, your overall position has been so discredited that you couldn't be taken seriously. This is a clear case of a man who is using whatever evidence he can, whether relevant or not, to support his prejudices rather than trying to determine the truth based on what can be observed to be true. Bobad, that last paragraph was about you. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies) Date: 12 Jun 10 - 06:55 AM Alex Harrison witness: They did not treat any of us peacefully and when they say that, it's an absolute lie. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies) Date: 12 Jun 10 - 07:57 AM I think I could do with a crash course in Zionism, as I'm far less savvy about some of the pertinent issues than many of the posters here. I've been following most of the links and stories, but one of the things I keep encountering is the quiet (as in not generally reported) but persistent voice of religious Orthodox Jews who feel Judaism has been usurped by what they see as an irreligious political Zionist movement. Jewish Rabbis Condemn Israeli Massacre of Free Gaza Flotilla |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: Stringsinger Date: 12 Jun 10 - 02:23 PM The idea that something is "complex" is a word today used as a smokescreen. Obama has used it in regard to the BP crimes in the Gulf and in the defense of Wall Street. Israel thought it could get away with its public relations excusing it for war crimes. That's why they attacked an innocent vessel. As to the Turkish bit, it wasn't about Turkey although Israel sought to make it that way. That is a complete misrepresentation. If America's only friend in the Middle-East is Israel, then as a country we are in big trouble. I think that if American Jews were allowed to criticize Israel on the media, it would open the door to meaningful dialogue. Israel and the US today have a news blackout on this issue and that includes G.E.'s MSNBC. Again, turn over the rock and witness the roaches. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: CarolC Date: 12 Jun 10 - 04:18 PM More flotilla members complaining of their bank cards being used by Israelis after they were confiscated. Along with complaints of the theft of almost all of their other personal belongings... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnyA5kYwt40 |
