BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Aug 16 - 09:44 AM

Cor, she knows more about real life in Gaza than the people who live there! 😂😂😂 Unsupportable nonsense. And someone really ought to tell her that Turkey is not a dictatorship. Still, why would a hired lackey for the Israeli regime lets facts get in the way! 😂😂😂

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Teribus
Date: 31 Aug 16 - 11:31 AM

"The Jewish people are not responsible for the land-grabbing or the massacres, or the murderous incursions.... the Israeli regime is."

You mean just like in the 19th century westward expansion in the United States of America - "The American settlers were not responsible for the land-grabbing or the massacres, or the murderous incursions.... the American Government/regime was." Which of course is wrong, personal greed of the population and pressure of population prompted the expansion. The 1776 War of Independence was not fought over "Taxation" and "Representation" - they served as the convenient excuses - the war was fought to break the 1754 treaty that the British signed with the Native Nations that limited westward expansion - a treaty that the British honoured. The War of 1812 was another similar opportunistic land grab where at the end of hostilities the British honoured the terms of the treaty and the American Government did not, but nobody at the time could be bothered with objections - after 21 years of war Britain and Europe wanted peace.

When it comes to Palestine {That is the League of Nations Mandated Territory of 1923}, European Jews had been settling there since around 1847, there were also Jews who had been resident in the Territory for at least 800 years {Hebron was a largely Jewish city}. All land settled by the European arrivals was bought from the Ottoman rulers, who generally sold land that they thought was worthless, modern farming methods related to drainage and irrigation altered that and where land couldn't be farmed it was given over to industry. Most of the land was owned not by individuals but by the Ottoman administration - examination of maps shows this clearly - When the Mandate was established - what had been unassigned "government land" under the Ottomans became unassigned "government land" under the British Mandate Authorities. Throughout the period of the Mandate parcels of this land was sold off. The only recognised borders of Palestine are those of 1923, there are no officially recognised borders for Israel or any Two-State solution primarily because in 1947 the Arabs of Palestine refused the Two-State Solution offered by the UN. Under the terms of the 1923 Mandate anybody could settle anywhere in Palestine, only Arabs could settle in what was then called Transjordan. To settle all you required was the purchase price of the land.

The Arabs of Palestine basically found themselves in two camps, one backed by those who ruled Transjordan who wanted to take over the lot, a second group headed up by Yasser Arafat's Uncle, the self-styled Grand Mufti of Jerusalem wanted to expel the Jews, take over what they had built up and make it into his own fiefdom. He was responsible for the attacks made on the Jews of Palestine by the Arabs of Palestine from 1920 onwards.

Asked before and I will ask again: How many rockets/missiles have been fired from Gaza or the West Bank into Israel in the last month? (Think you'll find that the answer to that is NONE) Now tell me how many Israeli attacks have there been on Gaza or in the West Bank in the last month? (Think you'll find that the answer to that is also NONE) - Spot the correlation? Since May 1948 the Arabs of the region have been unable to - they still chose war over peace - and they still lose - The Israelis cannot be blamed for the intransigence of the Arabs of Palestine, or more correctly their leaders, who have deliberately kept the people they are supposed to be responsible for looking after in poverty and a state of hopelessness - charity cases to be presented to the international community on demand. Remember the Israelis took in more Jewish "refugees" than the Arabs took in Arab "refugees" big difference being that the Israelis allowed their refugees to integrate, the Arabs shut theirs up in Refugee Camps on land belonging to the self same refugees and used them as political pawns and a convenient income stream.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 31 Aug 16 - 02:45 PM

A TV event not to be missed especially by those who swallow the phony "Palestinian" narrative and outright lies perpetrated by the "Palestinian" propaganda machine.


Las Vegas, August 30 – A duo of prominent stage magicians known for their outspoken stances on political issues and for their vocal support of skepticism toward many widely-held beliefs have announced they will produce a once-off revival of their Emmy-nominated TV show arguing for skepticism of those notions, with the special episode focused on the disingenuous, distorted, and outright false claims behind the Palestinian national movement.

Penn Jillette and Raymond Teller, one of the most famous magic acts in history, issued a press release today to the effect that "Penn & Teller's 'Bulls**t!'" would come back for a special one-time, two-hour episode to examine the common misconceptions, myths, and falsehoods peddled by advocates for the Palestinian cause, aiming to demonstrate that support for such a cause keeps millions of people stateless and miserable, perpetuates violent conflict, discourages a peaceful resolution of Arab-Israeli differences, and draws precious international resources away from where they are actually needed.

"I have to say our biggest regret, in terms of the topics we took on in our show, was not devoting attention to the Palestinian cause," said Jillette, referring to the seven-year run on the Showtime cable channel that ended in 2010. "Teller and I shifted our emphasis when the run ended, but we've always had a nagging sense that we needed to go back and tackle this topic. It's a source of tremendous bulls**t, after all."

Specifically, Penn and Teller aim to shine a critical lens on the notion of Palestinian nationhood, the historicity of Palestinian claims to indigenous status, Palestinian denial of a Jewish connection to the Holy Land, the misleading application of terminology such as "occupation" and "genocide," and numerous other features of Palestinian advocacy. "We're not even going to spend a lot of time on the violence and intimidation that characterize so much of pro-Palestinian rhetoric, especially on college campuses, but that will get a mention, because it has to," explained Jillette, to nods from Teller. "Millions of people are walking around with this stupid image of Palestinians as these poor native victims of imperialism, but it's a load of bullsh**t, and the more it spreads, the farther the world gets from the possibility of resolving this conflict peacefully."

Whereas the original series episodes ran 28-30 minutes each, the special revival episode will run four times as long. "There's enough material to make it ten hours if we wanted, and we wouldn't cover the same ground at any point," noted Jillette. "But that would be overkill, so we're going to cap it at 2 hours."


Penn & Teller To Revive 'Bulls**t!' To Debunk Palestinian Claims

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 31 Aug 16 - 02:49 PM

"The Jewish people are not responsible for the land-grabbing or the massacres, or the murderous incursions.... the Israeli regime is."

More anti-Semitic tropes from the usual suspect. If it was written on paper the only good use for it would be to wipe your arse.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 31 Aug 16 - 03:04 PM

"You mean just like in the 19th century westward expansion in the United States of America
No, I mean the land grabbing that stared with Israel's independence and has continued ever since
Fekin' eeejt
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 31 Aug 16 - 04:52 PM

Despite the growth in their population, the Arabs continued to assert they were being displaced. The truth is that from the beginning of World War I, part of "Palestine's" land was owned by absentee landlords who lived in Cairo, Damascus and Beirut. About 80 percent of the "Palestinian" Arabs were debt-ridden peasants, semi-nomads and Bedouins.18

Jews actually went out of their way to avoid purchasing land in areas where Arabs might be displaced. They sought land that was largely uncultivated, swampy, cheap and, most important, without tenants. In 1920, Labor Zionist leader David Ben-Gurion expressed his concern about the Arab fellahin, whom he viewed as "the most important asset of the native population." Ben-Gurion said "under no circumstances must we touch land belonging to fellahs or worked by them." He advocated helping liberate them from their oppressors. "Only if a fellah leaves his place of settlement," Ben-Gurion added, "should we offer to buy his land, at an appropriate price."19

It was only after the Jews had bought all of the available uncultivated land that they began to purchase cultivated land. Many Arabs were willing to sell because of the migration to coastal towns and because they needed money to invest in the citrus industry.20

MYTH: "Jews stole Arab land"

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Aug 16 - 05:22 PM

Wow, yet another neutral and objective bobad source. You're a joke, mate. Actually, you're two jokes, as we all know. 😂

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 31 Aug 16 - 05:41 PM

By 1947, Jewish holdings in "Palestine" amounted to about 463,000 acres. Approximately 45,000 of these acres were acquired from the Mandatory Government; 30,000 were bought from various churches and 387,500 were purchased from Arabs. Analyses of land purchases from 1880 to 1948 show that 73 percent of Jewish plots were purchased from large landowners, not poor fellahin.29 Those who sold land included the mayors of Gaza, Jerusalem and Jaffa. As'ad el­Shuqeiri, a Muslim religious scholar and father of PLO chairman Ahmed Shuqeiri, took Jewish money for his land. Even King Abdullah leased land to the Jews. In fact, many leaders of the Arab nationalist movement

ibid

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 31 Aug 16 - 05:50 PM

Wow, yet another neutral and objective bobad source.

Go ahead and dispute those facts and figures with your sources. I doubt if you will. It's just your usual; any source that disproves my ideology is biased, especially if the authors of that source are Jews.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Aug 16 - 05:52 PM

Ah, nothing like the bobad propaganda machine in full flow! It's all true, of course, just like it was all true when he was both bobad and the anonymous troll who told us he needed anonymity so that we'd address the issues and not attack the man. Wow, the sheer integrity of the man! 😂

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Aug 16 - 05:57 PM

Your "sources" are a laugh a minute. Carefully chosen in order to confirm your personal bigotry. Try quoting some Chomsky at us. Go on, bobad, it's all right, honest - he's a Jew, after all! 😂😂😂

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Greg F.
Date: 31 Aug 16 - 07:27 PM

Steve, its kinda like his slander of Black Lives Matter - no facts need apply for Bubo. Spew is all.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 31 Aug 16 - 08:04 PM

Steve,

Cor, she knows more about real life in Gaza than the people who live there!

The people who live there dare not be critical.
That is certain death in Gaza.

And someone really ought to tell her that Turkey is not a dictatorship.

Not having a free and independent press or media, it is not a true democracy either.
Also, anyone who ever spoke out against the regime has been rounded up following the attempted coup.

Steve, you have made wild claims and assertions, and as usual fall silent when asked to substantiate.

How does the Israel lobby exert such influence?
What has it got that lobbyists for others, e.g. the Palestinians, have not got?
Nothing but a popular cause.

Returning to the subject of whither the Labour Party, your definition of antisemitism leaves you blind to the real examples of it we have discussed.
It is your denial of that antisemitism, recognised by everyone else, that has kept this thread alive months after it faded from the news.
You repeatedly claimed that the EUMC definitions were discredited, whereas it is yours that are invalid.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Aug 16 - 09:05 PM

Turn the record over, Keith. Everyone except you has left all that behind. She said Turkey is a dictatorship. It isn't. A lie which you are now defending. So what's new! 😂
"The people who live there dare not be critical.
That is certain death in Gaza."

Total rubbish. Prove it!

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Sep 16 - 05:13 AM

Steve,
There is no freedom of speech, free press or opposition parties in Gaza, and no elections.
When Hamas took over, rival politicians who did not flee in time were thrown off tall buildings.
That would discourage anyone from criticising Hamas in Gaza.

When I make an assertion or claim I can back it.
You run away when asked to back your ludicrous assertions and claims.
You claimed that pro-Israel lobbyists have a "cast iron grip" on US politics.
How do they exert that grip except their cause is a popular one, which you also denied!

What is wrong with the pro-Palestinian lobby, except that everyone knows they rely on lying propaganda?

Should a pro-Israel lobby not be allowed? Everyone else has one.
What is your point? What is your case?

You have also run away from responding to this point put to you,
"Returning to the subject of whither the Labour Party, your definition of antisemitism leaves you blind to the real examples of it we have discussed.
It is your denial of that antisemitism, recognised by everyone else, that has kept this thread alive months after it faded from the news.
You repeatedly claimed that the EUMC definitions were discredited, whereas it is yours that are shown to be invalid."

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Sep 16 - 05:30 AM

Steve,
She said Turkey is a dictatorship. It isn't. A lie which you are now defending.

I merely stated facts about Turkey.

Guardian,
"The Guardian view on Turkey: beware an elected dictatorship"

"Turkey is lurching towards such a state. The arrests of 6,000 people, and the sacking of 2,700 judges, are very bad signs coming from a regime which has already done its best to intimidate civil society through the harassment and persecution of journalists. A purge of the armed forces is inevitable in the wake of a failed military coup, but it was not judges who rose up against the elected government. The attack on the judiciary is especially worrying in the light of Recep Tayyip Erdoğan's contempt for human rights and the rule of law."
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jul/17/the-guardian-view-on-turkey-beware-an-elected-dictatorship

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Greg F.
Date: 01 Sep 16 - 08:37 AM

Awwrk! Pieces of eight! Pieces of eight!!

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 01 Sep 16 - 08:38 AM

Try quoting some Chomsky at us.

Plenty quotes by Chomsky as apologist for Pol Pot and downplaying the atrocities of the Khmer Rouge can be found in his books and magazine articles. It is interesting to note that just like our resident apologists for Islamist terrorist groups and murderous Islamic regimes he is fond of describing his detractors as "neo-Nazis and neo-Stalinists", seemingly totally unaware of the irony.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Greg F.
Date: 01 Sep 16 - 09:35 AM

Awwrk! Pieces of eight! Pieces of eight!!

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Sep 16 - 10:03 AM

She said Turkey was a dictatorship. It is not. At best she is uninformed. At worst she lied. Take your pick.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 01 Sep 16 - 10:06 AM

Kudos, Greg, for distilling your posting history into one succinct post - a squawk. Very clever of you as now all you have to do is paste this into your every post and you'll be repeating what you've been saying in your posts for years.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Greg F.
Date: 01 Sep 16 - 02:06 PM

all you have to do is paste this into your every post and you'll be repeating what you've been saying in your posts for years.

Take note, Bubo:


Projection (Psychological)

1) A self-defence mechanism characterised by a person attributing their own issues onto someone or something else as a form of delusion and denial.

2) A way to blame others for ones own negative thoughts by repressing them and then attributing them to someone else. Due to the sorrowful nature of delusion and denial it is very difficult for the target to be able to clarify the reality of the situation.

3) A way to transfer guilt for one's own thoughts, emotions and actions onto another as a way of not admitting your guilt to yourself.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Sep 16 - 03:49 PM

Steve,
She said Turkey was a dictatorship. It is not. At best she is uninformed. At worst she lied. Take your pick.

Guardian, July 27.
"The Guardian view on Turkey: beware an elected dictatorship"

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Sep 16 - 05:06 PM

Let me state a bald fact to you, Keith. Turkey is not a dictatorship. Now if I were you I'd drop this. You really are making a prize twat of yourself.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 01 Sep 16 - 06:47 PM

Sounds pretty much like what a dictator does.

Erdoğan is well on his way to becoming a dictator, if he isn't one already. Not long after his initial election, Erdoğan's agents embarked on a large and sinister campaign to destroy his political opponents, jailing hundreds—journalists, university rectors, military officers, aid workers—on trumped-up charges and fabricated evidence. (In 2012, I wrote about Erdoğan's campaign for the magazine.) Despite his excesses, Erdoğan remained popular as the Turkish economy rapidly grew. In 2014, having completed three terms as Prime Minister, he ran for President and won. Still, Turkish voters have refused to give him the blank check he desired, and last year turned down his effort to rewrite the Constitution to give himself vast new powers.

The New Yorker

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 01 Sep 16 - 06:55 PM

Turkey is not a dictatorship. Now if I were you I'd drop this.

That is your opinion only, many others are of a different opinion. You are coming off as an arrogant, self-righteous bully which is your usual MO. You drop it.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Greg F.
Date: 01 Sep 16 - 07:10 PM

an arrogant, self-righteous bully

See projection, above, Bubo.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Sep 16 - 07:11 PM

Your final sentence betrays the fact that Turkey is not a dictatorship.


Now don't get me wrong. I don't like Erdogan. Not one little bit. But the fact is that he is not a dictator. I don't give a flying shite what your "source" says (that lackey of the Israeli regime), what Keith says or what you say. Turkey may well be run by a bunch of unpleasant people. With that I will not disagree. But Turkey is not a dictatorship. If and when Turkey ever becomes a dictatorship, I'll let you know that I agree. You see, you quoted a source that you, er, forgot to read closely enough. She included Turkey among her list of dictatorships. Now she doesn't like Islamic stuff much, as most of the rest of us don't like Islamic stuff (including me). She was directly affected by Islamic stuff in Iran. I suppose we should listen. But it seems to me that she is being taken advantage of by the Israeli regime. Look where your source was from. Hardly neutral. And she was entirely incorrect in stating that Turkey is a dictatorship. Two things from that. Because she made such a basic error, you wonder what else she says that you could rely on. Then there's you two berks, who, instead of acknowledging that she made a mistake, try to insist that she was right all along. Well the whole world knows that Turkey is not a dictatorship. Simple. Not a nice regime. Going that way in some regards, maybe. But NOT a dictatorship. Either you recognise plain facts or we know what kind of people you are. You decide.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 01 Sep 16 - 07:18 PM

See projection, above, Bubo.

Squawk!

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Sep 16 - 07:20 PM

You and Keith really are up shit creek without a paddle. I'm not bullying you. I'm advising both of you, for the good of your health, to acknowledge that your source was incorrect in calling Turkey a dictatorship. The whole world knows it. You don't have to like the Erdogan regime. Personally, I hate it. But the simple, obstinate, unassailable fact is that Turkey is not a dictatorship. Simple. I don't need Guardian articles telling me that it might become one. I know that already. But let's stick to dealing in facts here. Turkey is, simply put, not a dictatorship.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 01 Sep 16 - 07:32 PM

Your final sentence betrays the fact that Turkey is not a dictatorship.

The article was written in March of this year, the situation has changed dramatically since with Erdogan assuming dictatorial powers under a "state of emergency" diktat. It is widely believed that the coup attempt was staged on his orders so that he could give himself the new powers that were denied to him by the electorate. This is how dictators operate.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Sep 16 - 07:42 PM

"Widely believed" by who? Your conspiracy theory is months out of date, junked. As it stands, Turkey is still a parliamentary democracy. An over-centralised one for sure, as it has been for years. But that is not the same thing as a dictatorship. Now I know how dearly you want to hang on to every word of your bigoted yet beloved source. But, really, truth is fairly important. And the truth as things stand, as of this very day, is that Turkey is not a dictatorship. Nowhere near. Pick yourself up, dust yourself off and find something else to lie about, why don't you.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 01 Sep 16 - 08:01 PM

your bigoted yet beloved source.

Right, everyone who holds an opinion that differs from yours is a bigot. You really are an arrogant SOB.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Sep 16 - 08:31 PM

Not so. I've told you clearly about your source, Information you could've got for yourself, but you couldn't be arsed. The main thing here is that she betrayed her unreliability by calling Turkey a dictatorship, which it isn't. A basic error of that kind means that we can't trust anything she says. I understand from her description of her background where she's coming from. I'm very glad I didn't have to grow up in Iran. But none of that is an excuse for stating in an article the untruth that Turkey is a dictatorship.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Sep 16 - 04:28 AM


Let me state a bald fact to you, Keith. Turkey is not a dictatorship. Now if I were you I'd drop this. You really are making a prize twat of yourself.

I just quoted the Guardian Steve.
They must be your "prize twats."
That is certainly my impression of much that they print but I quote them out of deference to you and your friends.

Guardian, July 27.
"The Guardian view on Turkey: beware an elected dictatorship"

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Sep 16 - 04:43 AM

Huffington Post Headline, July 20.
"Turkey's Elected Dictator"

"Even before the failed military coup, Turkey's President Erdogan governed like a dictator who had the last word on all state matters. The botched coup was nothing but, as he put it, "a gift from God" to purge what is left of Turkey's democracy and cleanse the army and judiciary in order to ensure the total subordination of all institutions to his whims.

For Erdogan, being elected was akin to being granted a license to trample and dismantle all democratic tenets to consolidate his powers and promote his Islamic agenda."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alon-benmeir/turkeys-elected-dictator_b_11093160.html

Speigel, July22,
"Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan is taking advantage of last week's failed coup to consolidate his power. As the country slides into a dictatorship, there is a lot at stake for the West. But the effects in Turkey itself promise to be far greater. By SPIEGEL Staff"
(The article you are reading originally appeared in German in issue 30/2016 (July 23rd, 2016) of DER SPIEGEL.)
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/coup-in-turkey-leads-to-erdogan-power-grab-a-1104261.html

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Sep 16 - 07:02 AM

"As the country slides into a dictatorship" being the operative phrase.
Turkey has largely avoided full dictatorship because of its desire to be part of the E.U.
It certainly is a nation with extremist tendencies verging on Fascism; whether it will attain that accolade remains to be seen.
Rather a turnaround here Keith.
It seems like only yesterday when you were putting forward Turkey as one of those "decent nations" who supported Israel with its silence.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Sep 16 - 07:46 AM

Heheh. That's right, Jim.

Neither the Guardian nor the Huffington Post has declared, unlike bobad's source, that Turkey is a dictatorship. Authoritarian and centralised, definitely. Both express concern, just like me and Jim. But Turkey has elections and a parliament. Come back and tell me that Turkey is a dictatorship when they are abolished. In the meantime, stop trying to bend the truth to suit your agenda. Just for once, acknowledge a mistake and stop being so pig-headed.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Sep 16 - 08:11 AM

The Huffington post describes Erdogan as "an elected dictator."
That is not "uninformed" or "a lie" but a view widely held by people who know a lot more about it that you two.

The Guardian,
"The attack on the judiciary is especially worrying in the light of Recep Tayyip Erdoğan's contempt for human rights and the rule of law."
That is a description of a dictator.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 02 Sep 16 - 08:13 AM

'The Labour leader wears a kind face in public while using authoritarian means and his Momentum bullyboys to complete the far left's hold on Labour. And Corbynistas' real enemy target? British Jews like me,' Michael Foster writes.

Jeremy Corbyn Is a Bully, Bad for Democracy, for Britain and for British Jews

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Sep 16 - 09:42 AM

Guardian yesterday,

". Smeeth told the Guardian: "I refuse to be intimidated or scared by anyone who resorts to this appalling racist and threatening abuse and they alone are responsible for their actions. But let's be clear: as leader of the official opposition and the head of my party, Jeremy Corbyn has a responsibility to lead and that means more then telling MPs to ignore abuse.

"He needs to name and shame his supporters who are perpetuating this hate and make it clear they are not welcome in our party if they have such abhorrent views."

In June the MP walked out of a press conference for the launch of an independent review into antisemitism in the Labour party that was hosted by Corbyn and its author Shami Chakrabarti. Smeeth had been accused by a Corbyn supporter of colluding with the Daily Telegraph in a row over leaflets criticising MPs opposed to his continued leadership of the party.

The MP said later: "I was verbally attacked by a Momentum activist and Jeremy Corbyn supporter who used traditional antisemitic slurs to attack me for being part of a 'media conspiracy'. It is beyond belief that someone could come to the launch of a report on antisemitism in the Labour party and espouse such vile conspiracy theories about Jewish people, which were ironically highlighted as such in Ms Chakrabarti's report, while the leader of my own party stood by and did absolutely nothing."

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 02 Sep 16 - 09:49 AM

Hmm.........media conspiracy....vile conspiracy theories about Jewish people......sounds like he's describing some of the posters on this thread.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Sep 16 - 10:22 AM

Ah, the joys of witness. St Bernadette, Fatima, Knock...😂

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Sep 16 - 12:08 PM

"Michael Foster is a millionaire showbiz agent who, as Managing Director of Content at Carlton Communications from September 1999 to February 2001, worked alongside David Cameron, the media company's Director of Corporate Affairs.[1]"
He is an extremist right winger who openly declared his hatred for Corbyn and describes him as a Nazi
He is a 'Friends of Israel' activist.
"In April 2016, Michael Foster joined the commercially-controlled media smear campaign against Jeremy Corbyn in a Daily Mail article headlined "Ignorant, Godless, Hateful - Corbyn's contempt for Jews is a disgrace":"
MICHAEL FOSTER
The death threats to Ruth Smeeth, according to Counter-terrorism police, have been made by "a fanatic who has threatened to hang a Jewish female Labour MP from the gallows."
Ms Smeeth is also a pro-Israeli activist with links to the American Security Services.
She has been described as an anti-Palestinian racist".
RUTH SMEETH and the ISRAELI LOBBY
Earlier complaints she has made about antisemitism have been investigated and found to be false.
None of this, of course, justifies her being threatened BY A FANATIC ACCORDING TO THE ANTI-TERRORIST SQUAD but it has nothing to do with antisemitism in the Labour Party
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Greg F.
Date: 02 Sep 16 - 12:57 PM

many others are of a different opinion.

Many others deny the Holocaust, Bubo.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 02 Sep 16 - 05:37 PM

He is an extremist right winger

According to those like you anyone who is not a Jew hating, Islamist terrorist apologist is a right wing extremist. For your information (not that it will do any good to an entrenched ideologue such as yourself) he self describes as a centre-leftist and a is major financial contributor to the Labour party.

He is a 'Friends of Israel' activist.

Gawd, to the likes of you and your "friends of Hamas and Hezbollah" party that must be cause of extreme agitation, imagine that, someone actually advocating for those filthy Jews.....der Fuhrer must be spinning in his grave.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 02 Sep 16 - 05:52 PM

I can see why Michael Foster elicits paroxysms of loathing from the likes of you as he has you and your cadre of regressive leftists described to a tee:

Corbynism: A regressive, discredited creed dressed in 'progressive' clothes.

It is a cadre of the old far left politicians, nearly all in their 60's, who have simply dressed up the old as new. Knowing the value of the Labour brand, they are attempting to steal it from a generation of those who have served Labour and its ideals for 30 years, redressing their old offer as a new form of acceptable progressive socialism, trying to hoodwink the British public into thinking that this is the way to establish an egalitarian post-Brexit Britain.

This ultimately is not about Labour, it is not about Corbyn's anti-Israel stance: it is about the shape of British society, for theirs is the politics of absolutism.

What binds them is their political enemy. Not, of course, the governing right-wing Conservatives, who have overseen a decline in living standards for working-class people not seen for a century. The "enemy" here is the majority center-right of the Labour Party, despised as "Blairites", supposedly wedded to crony capitalism, imperialism and war.

The crime that British Jews like myself have committed is that they were some of the major funders of the Labour Party under Tony Blair. So I become a metaphysical threat to their political nirvana, a wealthy, conspiring, controller of capital with imperialist (Israel/Palestine) intentions. History tells me I have heard that before. In Britain, the Jewish community watches in wonderment and with some reasoned trepidation.

Since the 1930's, the British Left has been wary of Jews in government, business and banking; this emerges from what they see as a 'witches cauldron' of capital, wealth and the United States (whom they loath), and support for Israel. Corbyn's pro-Palestinian stance has so emboldened the worst elements on the far Left that, for the first time in my lifetime, Labour is seen as the party of the anti-Semite. Many emails to my political account now begin with the salutation: "Jewish Racist Scum".

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Sep 16 - 06:01 PM

Do try for a minute not to be such a confounded idiot, bobad.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 02 Sep 16 - 06:29 PM

Do try for a minute not to be such a confounded idiot, bobad.

Squawk!

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 02 Sep 16 - 06:30 PM

MM