BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Aug 16 - 05:45 AM

This is Cameron's ex-speech writer, Ian Birrell, in yesterday's Guardian, writing about Ukip.

Three members of the executive committee resigned in protest and there is dark talk of a split, with the insurance millionaire Arron Banks talking of purchasing another party. The new favourite is Diane James, an admirer of Vladimir Putin who has risen stealthily through the ranks of a party riven by rivalries and alcohol-fuelled rows. Among those she faces are a former wrestler, an MEP who wrote a book celebrating golliwogs and a councillor seeking a ban on Muslim schools.
As ever with fringe groups, the savagery of the infighting seems out of all proportion to size. Indeed, the party appears pointless once Brexit is implemented. The recent referendum result led Nigel Farage to stand down, saying that his political ambition was achieved. Now his forces focus on fresh ambitions – to become a permanent political fixture by exploiting the disruption of consensus, disenchantment with Westminster and disintegration of Labour.
None of the candidates jostling for position possess the cheeky chappie charm of Farage. Matthew Richardson, the party secretary, last year said they were standing up for "hundreds and thousands of bigots". Yet aided and abetted by fellow travellers in other parties, Ukip first spooked David Cameron into holding a referendum, then spooked a majority of voters into backing its cause.

Makes Labour's "serious antisemitism problem" pale into insignificance, doesn't it? But not a word from the unholy trinity of right-wingers here criticising Ukip's scumbag racism. Oops, sorry, I forgot: you're all in their camp, of course. Silly me! 😂😂😂 We probably won't need an enquiry, of course, as Ukip seems likely to self-immolate. Good riddance too if it happens.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Aug 16 - 05:57 AM

By the way, the "J-TV" that Teribus refers to is a YouTube channel calling itself the Global Jewish Channel. You can watch Shami quite properly "evading" the question. Christ only knows why she agreed to appear with that bunch of pro-Israel regime bigots in the first place was my reaction.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Aug 16 - 06:02 AM

Steve,
Makes Labour's "serious antisemitism problem" pale into insignificance, doesn't it? But not a word from the unholy trinity of right-wingers here criticising Ukip's scumbag racism.

Not criticising or defending.
I hate racism in any form in any party.
You still deny that any antisemitic statemnets have been made by Labour.
hence this debate.

You accused her of taking the peerage IN RETURN FOR A WHITEWASH REPORT.   In return for it, Keith. Prove it

It is proven that she was offered and accepted a peerage before or during the writing of her report.
That is enough to undermine its credibility, and it is not just us saying that.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Aug 16 - 06:10 AM

Steve,

By the way, the "J-TV" that Teribus refers to is a YouTube channel calling itself the Global Jewish Channel. You can watch Shami quite properly "evading" the question

Having accepted the nomination, she was sworn to secrecy.
Otherwise she could just have answered no.
It happened on Newsnight too.

She accepted the peerage before or during her inquiry, which as Streeting quite properly said, "stinks."

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Aug 16 - 06:19 AM

Steve,
"J-TV" .. that bunch of pro-Israel regime bigots

Will you for once justify your latest wild assertion?
I doubt it, but a first time for everything!

"Zanzer was keen to point out that the channel was independent from the state of Israel and "will not necessarily be pro- or anti-Israel; we'll let the public hear the Israeli perspective and it'll be up to the viewers to decide whether they're right".

The channel's Israeli bureau chief, CNN and ABC News veteran Jordana Miller, was also adamant that JN1 will not become a "propaganda station", saying "there's nothing about this network that will exclude, diminish or cut off the Palestinian narrative when it comes to the conflict here"."

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Aug 16 - 06:42 AM

"That is enough to undermine its credibility,"
Only if its findings have peen prove incorrect, and they have not.
This is merely changing focus from one failed line of attack to another.
Before any judgement can me bade of the report it has to be proven beyond any doubt that there is a serious problem of Antisemitism in the Labour Party, that has been found to have been not the case and until that changes the report stands.
As a Labour MP said, "it stinks."
As many ther Labour members and MPs said, it doesn't.
"You sad, obsessed man."
You nasty little serial racist.
"But I have, repeatedly!"
You lie - you never have.
You'e accused me of being a racist becaue I criticise Britain, you've just attempted to implicate Steve with being a racist
You have produced a couple of statements that suggest there is a link between the criminality of less than one thousand Muslim men (described as "testosterone fizzing young people" by one of your star witnesses.
Your statement accuses the entire male Pakistani population of being inclined to rape children because of their implanted culture.
You have never produced anybody who has ever suggested that, though I have no doubt that, if you dredge some of the most extreme racist sites, you will turn up something there that coincides with your claim, I'm sure.
We most certainly are NOT implanted by our culture - that reduces all to the level of unthinking automatons without a free will - which is how you described Pakistanis.
We accept or reject aspects off what we experience for a whole number of reasons - it's what makes us individuals rather than cloned cack-animals.
You are a very stupid, very unpleasant individual - you lack tolerance, you lack humanity, honesty and you lack morals in any shape or form - your raison d'être appears to be to win something
Do not call anybody a racist again and do not call me a liar again after all the lies you've told, particularly recently.
I'm "sad and obsessed" - I suggest you examine your own sad obsessions - you might start by counting the number of times you've claimed to have won something.
For the sake of honest discussion on this forum I suggest you and Teribus and Bobad get your shirt together and clean up your act - between you, you are the unacceptable face of humanity.

Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Teribus
Date: 06 Aug 16 - 07:23 AM

"I'm not a member of the Labour Party - as things stand at present, I don't even support their policies - I haven't voted for them since Blair and his cronies turned the party into a shadow Tory Party, so why should I have any regard for such guidelines?"

You mean you actually voted for Blair Jom??? Or maybe you meant to say that you hadn't voted for them since before Blair, but I somehow doubt it. As to why you might take heed of such guidelines? Well as your pals and "eggers-on" on this Forum are declared members of the Labour Party it would save them the embarrassment of having to correct your racist views Jom. No need to bother about us, we already know you to be a racist, a bigot and an Anglophobe on top of being a complete and utter idiot.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Raggytash
Date: 06 Aug 16 - 07:38 AM

Don't think I've ever mentioned whether I am a member of any political party Terri, yet alone declared I am a member of the Labour Party. If you can prove otherwise I would be very surprised.

In the meantime perhaps you could restrict your post to the truth.



Though I doubt that and will not hold my breath.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Teribus
Date: 06 Aug 16 - 08:01 AM

"not a word from the unholy trinity of right-wingers here criticising Ukip's scumbag racism. Oops, sorry, I forgot: you're all in their camp, of course. Silly me! 😂😂😂"

"In-their-camp" since when Steve?? You and your pals Jom & Raggy keep telling me I'm Tory through and through - do make your minds up.

Chakrabarti on being asked a perfectly simple question could easily have answered "No" without violating confidentiality, however she did not - perhaps as a lawyer she realised the position that that might have put her in if later facts came out to reveal that it turned out to be untrue.

Steve Shaw - 06 Aug 16 - 05:45 AM

Amazing what you learn reading the threads on this Forum. For example, did Putin really rise - "stealthily through the ranks of a party riven by rivalries and alcohol-fuelled rows" - So a career path very similar to that of Boris Yeltsin then.

The contenders for leadership of UKIP are:
Diane James: a former wrestler: an MEP who wrote a book celebrating golliwogs: and a councillor seeking a ban on Muslim schools.

They sound a varied selection of individuals. As an avowed atheist I would have thought that you would be opposed to Faith based education of any description.

I see that Birrell got this bit right:

"Now his forces focus on fresh ambitions – to become a permanent political fixture by exploiting the disruption of consensus, disenchantment with Westminster and disintegration of Labour."

Isn't Corbyn doing a great job.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Raggytash
Date: 06 Aug 16 - 08:04 AM

SHOCK !! HORROR !!! Steve Shaw missed out on a comma. Hold the front page !!

Grow up Terri.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Aug 16 - 08:28 AM

"You mean you actually voted for Blair Jom??? "
Read what I said - no I did not vote for Blair.
It had become obvios where the Labout=r party was heading leng before him
What's your point anyway, and what the ****'s it got to do with you?
You really are a nosy little squalid.
"Well as your pals and "eggers-on"
I have no pals or "eggers on" on this forum - I have never b=needed egging on by anybody - unlike you, who appears to take your inspiration from schoolyard bullies and closing time thugs
Narsty little man
I respect people who are in The Labour Party to win it back for the people who made it, but that's as far as it goes
"we already know you to be a racist, a bigot and an Anglophobe"
No you don't - but we know you to be a self-declared fascist.
Waste of time my asking you to provide anything resembling proof of my racism or bigotry - thugs like you don't do that sort of thing
As for my Anglophobia - you are the one who describes British people lazy scroungers and British industry as crap not worth preserving.
Having you head stuck up the arse of the establishment doesn't in any way show love of country, though it is an indication of your fascism.
You really are incapable of behaving like a human being, aren't you
Having your head stuck up the arse of the establishment and your own arse at the same time is a sight to behold
Any word on your tent- towns yet?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Greg F.
Date: 06 Aug 16 - 09:30 AM

Grow up Terri.

Some hope, for a lying sack of dirt.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Teribus
Date: 06 Aug 16 - 09:53 AM

So you did mean to say that you hadn't voted for them since before Blair became leader. Forgive my reluctance to believe that, but the reason I somehow doubt it is that going by what you write there is absolutely no way on this Earth that you would have failed to vote Labour in the 1997 election after all those years of "Tory misrule" - you wouldn't have been able to resist the temptation to assist in the removal of a Tory Government.

Have I described the "British people lazy scroungers and British industry as crap not worth preserving"?

I think my condemnation was of successive British Government who have created a welfare system that encourages people to become lazy scroungers and trapped within a system that was only ever envisioned as providing a temporary safety net. As to British Industry being crap - what ALL OF IT?? I will let you run on blanket generalisations, I prefer to deal in specifics and fact. The bits that were crap have gone to the wall, the bits of those bits that were good still survive and thrive.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Aug 16 - 11:28 AM

Having accepted the nomination and having (according to you, and big deal anyway) been sworn to secrecy DOES NOT MEAN THAT SHE ACCEPTED THE PEERAGE IN RETURN FOR A WHITEWASH. That is what you accused her of and that is what you can't support with evidence. Refusing to answer an impertinent question is not evidence. Watch the interview, which was carried out by an attack-dog. And don't give me that independent-from-Israel rubbish. Just watch some of their output.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Aug 16 - 11:32 AM

Ukip and the Tory right are the same beast. Two cheeks of the same arse. You are definitely of the Tory-right persuasion going by everything you say. You are in Ukip's camp and you put yourself there.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Aug 16 - 12:03 PM

"Forgive my reluctance to believe that, but the reason"
Do not call me a liar - my attitude really is none of your business.
All those years of Tory misrule, as you put it, were enough to make anybody realise that parliamentary democracy was and basically remains a total sham.
"Have I described the "British people lazy scroungers and British industry as crap not worth preserving"?"
You know bloody well you have, just as you have described British industry as crap and not worth preserving.
If a country is unable to provide full employment, it has to create a welfare system to cater for those unable to find work - that is accepted by all civilised states.
It doesn't encourage "lazy scroungers trapped within" any system - a society unable to cater for the population as a whole does that.
Your/Tebbit's "get on your bike" theory, which you still refuse to discuss the implications of, has the effect of destroying families and, as rents and accommodation prices are tied into where employment is, is bound to create an unstable population of itinerant workers with no fixed accommodation.   
"As to British Industry being crap - what ALL OF IT??"
Virtually all the major industries, certainly the ones necessary to create a long-term stable economy.   
Britain had industries that not only produced top-class products, but were long term and were potentially able to create the stability necessary to weather crises beyond the control of national governments - Thatcher and other Tory administrations systematically destroyed those leaving Britain with no industrial base steel, coal, light industries, shipping, textiles..... the pride of the Industrial revolution, all gone to suit the bank accounts of the privileged few
MEETING OUR MAKERS
"I will let you run on blanket generalisations"
You can't resist being pompous, no matter how hard you try!
I do wish you'd come to terms with your own intellectual shortcomings - there are very few people here you are in a position to talk down to - your are little more than a know-nothing blow-hard similar to all those pub bores who try to impress us with their wide experience and deep knowledge.
That is the reason you bully and bluster the way you do.
Wise up to yourself
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Aug 16 - 01:52 PM

Jim,
You'e accused me of being a racist becaue I criticise Britain, you've just attempted to implicate Steve with being a racist

No, I have accused no-one of racism, so stop trying to make this debate about me again you sad, obsessed man.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Aug 16 - 02:06 PM

Steve,
DOES NOT MEAN THAT SHE ACCEPTED THE PEERAGE IN RETURN FOR A WHITEWASH.

You mean we should all trust that she would have been so easy on Labour had she not been bribed with a peerage?
Bollocks.
You can not be considered independent if you are accepting payoffs from one side.
All credibility is destroyed.
As one Labour MP said, "It stinks."
As another prominent Labour MP, Keith Vaz, the British Parliament's longest-serving Asian MP and member of the Privy Council said,
"'We were told that this was an independent inquiry and if it transpires that Shami Chakrabarti was offered her peerage before she was appointed or during the time she was appointed to conduct that inquiry then we needed to have been told,' Mr Vaz told Sky News."

OK Steve.
It is not just us but many within Labour who can not stomach this devious and corrupt state of affairs.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Aug 16 - 02:21 PM

Jim,
As many ther Labour members and MPs said, it doesn't.

Really?
Name one who actually said "it doesn't stink."

Steve,
Watch the interview, which was carried out by an attack-dog. And don't give me that independent-from-Israel rubbish. Just watch some of their output.

The same thing happened on Newsnight.
Is Kirsty Wark an "attack dog" too?

Kirsty Wark: Is there a peerage in the offing? It has been discussed a Labour peerage might be in the offing for you?
Shami Chakrabarti: I don't know Kirsty, are you going to take one?

"J-TV" .. that bunch of pro-Israel regime bigots

Will you for once justify your latest wild assertion?
I doubt it, but a first time for everything!

"Zanzer was keen to point out that the channel was independent from the state of Israel and "will not necessarily be pro- or anti-Israel; we'll let the public hear the Israeli perspective and it'll be up to the viewers to decide whether they're right".

The channel's Israeli bureau chief, CNN and ABC News veteran Jordana Miller, was also adamant that JN1 will not become a "propaganda station", saying "there's nothing about this network that will exclude, diminish or cut off the Palestinian narrative when it comes to the conflict here"."

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 06 Aug 16 - 02:33 PM

that bunch of pro-Israel regime bigots

For Jew haters anyone who is pro Israel is automatically a bigot.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Aug 16 - 02:53 PM

Not so, Bobad. Watch the interview. The man is an attack-dog. And I don't even know whether he's a Jew or not. I didn't say Jews. I said pro-Israel regime bigots. Do try to focus.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Aug 16 - 03:13 PM

Fine words butter no parsnips, Keith. The man was out to get Chakrabarti. Let's just see how that channel pans out then, shall we? They sound like they have exactly your philosophy apropos of pro-Israel, and we know how that stinks. You say Chakrabarti was easy on Labour. You know what the remarks were and so do I. I think she was right on the money, criticising precisely how and what she should have. I heard unwise and ignorant remarks. I heard no antisemitism. If you did, it was only because you've adopted a useless, over-broad definition. Tough. Your definition puts Jewish people in harm's way. That is antisemitic. One more thing. I asked you for EVIDENCE that Chakrabarti accepted a peerage IN RETURN FOR A WHITEWASH. You have produced a lot of surmise, a lot of jumping to unjustified conclusions and have demonstrated a lynch-mob mentality. Bloody good job you don't work in the justice system. As a person of proven integrity she drops hot shit on disreputable people like you.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Aug 16 - 03:22 PM

"For Jew haters anyone who is pro Israel is automatically a bigot."
The only Jew hater here is you Bobad - nobody else blames them for Israel's terrorism
"Name one who actually said "it doesn't stink.""
No Keith - you give us a list of who has.
Dianne Abbott has suggested that it an attack on women to suggest that her appointment was rigged
All of which is beside the point
Unless it can be shown that there was a cobever -up and you right wingers can be explicit about what that cover up entailed - you have no riht tio suggest there was
What is being covered up - who are these hordes of Antisemites you have been banging on aqbout.
What is the nature of the antisemitism they have been indulging in
You have not offered on single example of "serious" antisemitism - not one.
This spoke about widespread concern, you only produced two names of people who suggested there was a proi=blem - both incvolved Israeli propaganda organisations.
As usual - you invented it.
Labour was accused of antisemmitism - they looked into the matter immediately and found there wasn't a problem
Even so, in the light of Israel claiming all criticism being Antisemitic, a series of recommendations were made regarding taking care of that particular part of the problem
In my opinion, they should have told the Israelis to go stuff themselves - they are a terrorist state attempting to avoid a boycott brought about by their open acts of State terrorism.   
Only Antisemites like Bobad blame the Jewish People for Israeli crimes.
Your supposed concern for Antisemitism and racism is a load of bollocks anyway - none of you three morons have ever told us why the Tories have never mheld an enquiry into islamophobia and you've all broken your necks to defend our racist Foreign Secretary.
Now - descibe all thes antisemitism and their behaviour - how many are there of these hordes - if their Antisemites is so serious - why are you unable to describe it?
Far from being concerned about racism and bigotry, you are a prime example of both Mudcat's resident cup-holder, in fact.
While we're at it - do you have any vies on Cameron's resignation honours list - or is perceived Labour dishonesty the only thing taht concerns you (rhetorical question, of course?)
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Aug 16 - 04:04 PM

You twit, Teribus. It was Diane James rising through the ranks, not Putin. I copied and pasted a Tory. They speak your lingo, so you should have been able to understand it. Oi, Raggytash, it weren't me wot left out that comma - it were Cameron' s former speech- writer! 😂😂😂

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Raggytash
Date: 06 Aug 16 - 04:15 PM

Apologies Steve,

Sadly I had to cater to the lowest common denominator, which is normally Teribus.

The lack of a decent education is so apparent there.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Greg F.
Date: 06 Aug 16 - 04:38 PM

For Jew haters anyone who is pro Israel is automatically a bigot.

Same old spew, Bubo - rather like the morons to whom anyone who critices the governmment of Israel is an antisemite???

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Aug 16 - 05:12 PM

He called me a Jew-hater again even though I didn't even know whether the bugger was a Jew or not!!! 😂😂😂😂😂

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Greg F.
Date: 06 Aug 16 - 06:44 PM

I didn't even know whether the bugger was a Jew

Don't matter, Steve- he'll spew out the expected idiocy just in case!

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Teribus
Date: 06 Aug 16 - 10:58 PM

Jim Carroll - 06 Aug 16 - 12:03 PM

You are a dinosaur Carroll, trapped sometime in the 1960s/1970s - fortunately the world has changed and moved on - only you have refused to move with it.

Corbyn is the same.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Teribus
Date: 06 Aug 16 - 11:06 PM

"The same thing happened on Newsnight.
Is Kirsty Wark an "attack dog" too?

Kirsty Wark: Is there a peerage in the offing? It has been discussed a Labour peerage might be in the offing for you?
Shami Chakrabarti: I don't know Kirsty, are you going to take one?"

That was broadcast on or about 27th July, 2016. In which case Ms Chakrabarti was lying in her reply because by that date there was no - "I don't know Kirsty" about it - Shami Chakrabarti had already accepted by that date.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Teribus
Date: 06 Aug 16 - 11:10 PM

Steve Shaw - 06 Aug 16 - 04:04 PM

Sense of humour failure Shaw?

Not surprised that Raggy leapt in as he always does - everything seems to fly over him at about 40,000ft.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Aug 16 - 03:16 AM

"You are a dinosaur Carroll, trapped sometime in the 1960s/1970s "
And you, Woodencock, are a fascist trapped in 1930s Germany - unfortunately some hangers-on like your good self still infesting the planet.
No answers though, just the old usual infantile insults - now there's a surprise!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Aug 16 - 03:57 AM

Steve,
I said pro-Israel regime bigots.

That is what you call us because we dare to give Israel's side of the debate.
You don't want to consider anything but the other side.

This Channel puts both sides, which is anathema to closed minded bigots.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Raggytash
Date: 07 Aug 16 - 04:06 AM

Hasty bit of back pedalling from Terri now that he has reread Steve's post.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Aug 16 - 04:29 AM

The Independent,

"Gillian Merron, a former Labour minister who is now chief executive of the Board of Deputies of British Jews, said the independence of Labour's inquiry was now seriously in question. "It looks like the award of a peerage for the delivery of a report which was seen as a whitewash and a disappointment to many in the Jewish community," she said. "There is a real question here about the integrity of this appointment." "

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Aug 16 - 06:10 AM

""Gillian Merron, a former Labour minister" - plays an active part as a blogger on behalf of Israel in the Jewish Chronicle (yet another link to Israeli propaganda)
She was found guilty of cheating on Parlaimentary expenses following the enquiries
Wonder if she sells used cars?
"That is what you call us because we dare to give Israel's side of the debate."
You give only Israel's view and deny any criticism of Israeli actions or policy - you are an appeaser of State terrorism
Interesting that you should say you dare - does Israel have critics then?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 07 Aug 16 - 07:51 AM

The Labour party is working hard to give the impression it doesn't really care about anti-Semitism. Shami Chakrabarti's peerage is a sell-out of U.K. Jews' concerns about anti-Jewish attitudes within the party, an act of stunning hypocrisy and a failure of principles.

Corbyn's Credibility With U.K. Jews Can't Get Much Lower

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Teribus
Date: 07 Aug 16 - 08:05 AM

Raggytash - 07 Aug 16 - 04:06 AM

Back-peddling Raggy - not in the least thicko.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Aug 16 - 09:20 AM

"Corbyn's credibility with Jews…."
Written by Dave Rich of the Community Security Trust
he CST claims to be 'a Jewish neighbourhood watch with a little bit added'.
This 'little bit added' is the surveillance and harassment of members of the Jewish community itself, especially those on the Left, who take issue with the political positions expressed by the self -proclaimed leaders of the community. As victims of their harassment, we have seen neither sophistication nor intelligence displayed by the officers of the CST and its forerunner, the Community Security Organisation (CSO).
Many Jews resent the bullying style of the CST at Jewish events in mainstream public venues. Members of the Jewish Socialists' Group and other organisations have even been prevented from entering a range of 'public' events policed by the CSO/CST. These have included a Holocaust commemoration, meetings about Nazi war crimes and an Israeli film festival. The victims have been condemned as 'security risks', despite offering to leave bags and personal effects with security personnel. Many of those excluded have been told they are 'on file'. On what basis they are on file and who verifies that the[SIC] information is impossible to find out[6].
People
"Back-peddling Raggy - not in the least thicko."
Were thinking of erecting a monument to the arguments you have abandoned or the points you have refused to respond to
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Aug 16 - 09:31 AM

Nearly everyone here is deep in the weeds growing among the industrial waste dumps.

Now you are literally discussing the 'Jewish Question'?

I think divide and conquer is at play here.

The exception to the mob mentality are Jim , Steve and other notables.

Notice how a only a few thugs/goons here can cause such an immune response with viral hate.

There are diseases that can cause our own immune response to kill ourselves.

I will not respond or inquire about specific political identities but only comment in a generalized perspective;

Who is doing the dividing and to what ends?

Both sides have thier martyrs. They all advanced some ideas that started to succeed or fail. There are not many that run a complete course.

If the world proceeded logicly in a linear direction progress would be lightening fast, but it does not.

We and the world proceed irrationally gaining advantage where there is a niche for life.

Take care not to poison yourselves with known historic toxic ideas.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Greg F.
Date: 07 Aug 16 - 09:35 AM

Corbyn's Credibility With U.K. Jews Can't Get Much Lower

Nor can yours, Bubo, with anyone even marginally sentient.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Raggytash
Date: 07 Aug 16 - 03:11 PM

Thicko ?

Go on terri, tell us all about your education .....................


...................................................


.....................................................


Hmmm Thought so you don't have any do you.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Aug 16 - 03:44 PM

My arse, Teribus. You misread that quote and mouthed off accordingly. Blatantly obvious, old bean. Some of us manage to say "oops" when we make a booboo. Seems that your pride won't allow you to do it.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Teribus
Date: 07 Aug 16 - 03:57 PM

Steve Shaw - 07 Aug 16 - 03:44 PM

Well now Shaw perhaps you should ask your pal Raggy about that and also ask Joe Offer - they will tell you that contrary to your "belief" that if I make a mistake I do not only admit it but that I also apologise for my error.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Aug 16 - 03:58 PM

"'I said pro-Israel regime bigots.'

That is what you call us because we dare to give Israel's side of the debate.
You don't want to consider anything but the other side."

I'm fed up of saying that I want the same for both "sides," peace, security and prosperity, and that I feel sorry for ordinary Israelis because of the way their bellicose regime works against those goals and puts them in harm's way. So you can shove your bloody lies about my "not wanting to consider anything but the other side" where the sun don't shine.

And I am still waiting for you to justify your accusation with evidence that Chakrabarti accepted a peerage IN RETURN FOR A WHITEWASH. Until you do (which, actually, you can't), you are a smearing, lying bigot.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Aug 16 - 04:00 PM

So apologise then! 😂😂😂

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Aug 16 - 04:20 PM

Steve,

And I am still waiting for you to justify your accusation with evidence that Chakrabarti accepted a peerage IN RETURN FOR A WHITEWASH.

You are being nauseatingly disingenuous.
What form would acceptable proof take Steve?
Obviously only a confession, and that is obviously never going to happen.

The FACT is that Chakrabarti produced a report that surprised everyone by playing down the antisemitism that had led to 50 suspensions from the party, and then it emerged, to her obvious embarrassment and shame, that she had received a massive payoff.

It stinks.

It is not just us that is saying that.
It is senior Labour people and everyone who speaks for the Jewish community.
You are on the wrong side of this debate.
You are supporting racial hatred.

Can you quote one single Jew in the whole world who does not believe that a section of Labour is rife with antisemitism and that the Chakrabarti report is a whitewash?

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Aug 16 - 04:48 PM

"You are being nauseatingly disingenuous.!"
Proof that there is Antisemitism - no evidence whatever
Bit like all those Irish people who were brainwashed to hate the British, yet you could give no example of hatred.
If it doesn't fit, make it up with you Keith
Stupid little fanatic
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Aug 16 - 05:21 PM

The report was spot on. There were ignorant attitudes and there were remarks made that were unwise. Making remarks about Israel and the Nazis in the same breath is not appropriate. All matters that must be addressed, but the party is not overrun by antisemitism. That is no whitewash. You wouldn't have been satisfied unless every member of the party had been named by her as a rabid antisemite. To you and your ilk, anything less is a whitewash. Sorry, but you are not entitled to make accusations that you can't support. Think all the evil thoughts about her you like, but you have NO EVIDENCE THAT SHE ACCEPTED A PEERAGE IN RETURN FOR A WHITEWASH. To make that accusation without evidence makes you a nasty little shit. You adopted the same scurrilous and dishonest approach over Wheatcroft and the long-defunct working definition, not to speak of your clear distaste for Pakistanis, which has cropped up more than once. Next time you go to church, if they'll actually let you in, don't forget to say the act of contrition. Ugh. Disgusting little man.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 07 Aug 16 - 08:40 PM

Uh oh!

UK's Labour Party leader Jeremy Corbyn faced criticism for an undeclared donation of £10,000 (NIS 50,000) for his successful 2015 leadership campaign raised by a pro-Hamas group.

According to documents obtained by the Observer, a Palestinian group held a fundraising dinner for Corbyn at which it raised £10,000. However this donation from Friends of Al-Aqsa was never declared to the Electoral Commission.

Corbyn's campaign claimed that the donation was not reported because the check bounced, according to the report Sunday. When asked what happened to the money that had been raised, a spokesman said: "I'm told a second check may have been sent but this was not received by the campaign." He added, "There is nothing dodgy going on." [Oh sure, we believe that]