BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 25 Jul 16 - 01:54 PM

Criticisms of Tories are posted here all the time, but Labour is now in a crisis that threatens its extinction and you people think it wrong for anyone to mention it!

You lefties are just so terrified of open debate (because you always lose!).

All you lefties love to repeat Palestinian propaganda against Israel, but you think it wrong for anyone to put the other side of the argument.

You lefties are just so terrified of open debate (because you always lose!).

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Jul 16 - 02:06 PM

You really are hysterically barking mad, aren't you? 😂😂😂

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Jul 16 - 02:14 PM

"Yes, because they do not believe in them."
They are there to be seen - are you suggesting that all the eye witness accounts and Human rights reports are all lies and we should believe the silence of the politicians and ignore the evidence of our own eyes? - this is a new low in your defence of these killers.
Do you have any ec#vidence that they don't believe them or are you making it up?
"describe it as a serious issue."
Your altziemers appears to be kicking in again - it was mind-nu7mbingly stupid the first time you said it.
There was found to be that there was no serious problem - was the report a sham?
"Antisemitic statements
As to be found throughout Britain, only in a tiny minority - you lied about there being a major p#roblem and you continue to lie.
The evidence of the report makes that clear - uless you would like to say it was faked!!
Not even you
and abuse"
What abuse - or are you repeating "Antisemitic statements" in a different form to to make it look more serious?
How dishonest are you going to get to "win" this argument Keith?
By the way
"One more time:"
Another lie - yhou have never put up these pathetic excuses before - you have only done so now because you have been forced into a corner
Do you sleep with your NOSE OUT OF THE WINDOW at night?
You really do have no self respect, do you?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Jul 16 - 03:22 PM

I do NOT think it's wrong to mention issues in Labour's ranks. The only two people you've been "brave" enough to name have not been found guilty of antisemitism. They are guilty of opening their mouths before engaging their brains, that's all, and they both regret what they said. You do it all the time and you never say sorry. They're a million times better than you are.

I do NOT think it's wrong to put both sides of arguments.

I do NOT support Hezbollah and have never said anything that would make any sane and reasonable person think that I do. You appear to have failed at both those hurdles.

I do NOT like liars, twisters, deniers and delusional, bigoted argument. You are bang to rights on all those grounds, Keith. It's truly pathetic. I feel sorry for you. And, believe me, you are NOT "centre right." If you're centre-right then I'm the bloody Queen of Sheba and akenaton is a socialist.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 25 Jul 16 - 03:59 PM

Steve,
I do NOT support Hezbollah and have never said anything that would make any sane and reasonable person think that I do.

But you said this earlier in support of Hamas and Hezbollah,
"millions of people in Lebanon and Gaza approve of Hamas and Hezbollah, not just for resisting Israel but also because they help to run the country, rather well in the case of Lebanon. "

Are you sure those people approve?
In Gaza the opposition has been eradicated and no elections are held.
Hezbollah is a recognised terror group with no mandate in Lebanon except the gun.

I do NOT think it's wrong to mention issues in Labour's ranks.

Then why do you object to this thread?

The only two people you've been "brave" enough to name

It takes no bravery to give names, but I only know the names given by Labour people.
There are clearly many more than two!!
That is made clear by Chakrabarti, NEC and others I have quoted.

Jim, Israel is not accused of illegal actions by any liberal democracy, because it is just anti-Israel propaganda.
This thread is about the Labour Party, but if you want Israel's side of any particular event, do start a new thread or reopen one of the dozens already started.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Jul 16 - 05:43 PM

If I say that millions of people in Lebanon and Gaza approve of Hezbollah and Hamas, I am stating an incontrovertible fact and I am NOT expressing my personal approval of them, you clown. You can actually read plain English, can you? Well we did have our doubts about that during your self-inflicted Wheatcroft fiasco, of course. Next, when have I ever "objected to this thread," you berk? If I "object to a thread" I do what any sane person does and ignore the bloody thing. You really are off your rocker, aren't you?

Incidentally, if you want some facts about Hezbollah's work in Lebanon, it's all freely accessible online. You are allowed to read them, you know. You won't be corrupted into "supporting" Hezbollah. But if all you can do is bleat about how many countries brand them terrorists and clasp your hands over your eyes and ears about everything else, you are not allowing yourself to see all sides. Oh, I forgot. You never want to do that, do you? The very last thing you want is for your prejudices to be undermined. That trait is called bigotry. If the cap fits...

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 25 Jul 16 - 06:35 PM

Right Shaw, there was a fellow in Germany, as I recall, who was approved by millions of people and made the trains run on time. He also had the same policy towards Jews as do Hamas and Hezbollah. Are you just as inclined to expound on the positive qualities of his regime?

PS. Look up at how dissenters and critics of Hamas and Hezbollah are dealt with by them and that might give you a clue to the numbers that you say approve of them.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Jul 16 - 08:16 PM

Oh, do tell us. Bet you're wearing Chinese clothes...

Yer man in Germany was not the one famed for making the trains run on time. That was yer man in Italy. A simple fact to get completely wrong, precisely what we expect from you and your best mate Keith. Can never even get the little stuff right, so definitely never to be trusted on the big stuff. Go on, have a go at twisting that one. 😂😂😂

And Hitler's policy towards the Jews was predicated on concerted, mass-murderous action. Hamas and Hezbollah are all talk and ramshackle rockets aimed nowhere in particular, bloody foolish talk at that. Cut through their vile crap and find the underlying grievances (it may help you to understand if you research why Hamas and Hezbollah came about in the first place). Suffice to say that, while numbers games are invidious of course, those two unpleasant organisations have killed less than a tenth of those killed, mostly civilians in cold blood, by successive Israeli regimes. And did you notice something? I said by Israeli regimes, you know, the politicos and the generals giving orders, not rampaging hordes of out-of-control Jews. You see, unlike you I'm not antisemitic. I dislike Islamic organisations such as Hamas and Hezbollah as much as I dislike the current Israeli regime, but I know why they are there and I know that the people of Gaza and Lebanon know that no-one else is going to defend them against Israel. It's called seeing the other side. You should try it some time. Dunno whether you could live with the guilt though.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 25 Jul 16 - 08:48 PM

defend them against Israel

There you go - can't fix stupid and prejudice.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Jul 16 - 09:33 PM

It happens to be entirely factual. Be careful when it rears up to bite you on the bum. You might think it's one of those nasty antisemites. Actually, as you're an antisemite and you have a double identity, you may end up biting yourself on the bum. Don't let the stink of bigotry put you off.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 25 Jul 16 - 09:46 PM

You know, to ascribe such a stupid statement to ignorance is too simplistic. There is something more deep seated and sinister at play here. I can give it a name but don't have to as it is evident to anyone not blinded by hatred.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Teribus
Date: 26 Jul 16 - 12:45 AM

"I dislike Islamic organisations such as Hamas and Hezbollah as much as I dislike the current Israeli regime, but I know why they are there and I know that the people of Gaza and Lebanon know that no-one else is going to defend them against Israel. It's called seeing the other side. You should try it some time."

The statement above of course completely ignores the fact that if organisations like Hamas and Hezbollah did not exist the people of Lebanon and Gaza would not be under threat of attack from anyone. Plus the added bonus of not being used as human shields and they might just possibly actually receive some of the aid donated to them by other countries.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Jul 16 - 03:04 AM

"The statement above of course completely ignores the fact that if organisations like Hamas and Hezbollah did not exist the people of Lebanon and Gaza would not be under threat of attack from anyone"
Israel was driving out the Palestinians and carrying out massacres long before both were in existence - just as Jews such as Einstein and his colleagues were warning were warning of the rise of Israeli fascism as far back as the late 1940s
EINSTIEN'S PETITION
Had it not been for opposition, the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians would have been a done deal decades ago and those hanging on would have joined the 5,248,185 driven out of they homeland.
Recognising the necessity for opposition does not mean that you automatically support the form that that opposition takesBUT WHEN THE DEVIL DRIVES..... .
I do NOT like liars, twisters, deniers and delusional, bigoted argument either
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Teribus
Date: 26 Jul 16 - 03:19 AM

As you are going back to the late 1940s Jom - Care to explain why in 1947 those you champion now rejected the UN proposed Two State solution, they claim to be "fighting" for now?

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Jul 16 - 04:04 AM

"Care to explain why in 1947 those you champion now rejected the UN proposed Two State solution, they claim to be "fighting" for now?
No actually - I don't care to explain anything to you until you learn to spell my name correctly.
I've no intention of being talked down to by a mental midget - it's become somewhat boring.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Jul 16 - 04:51 AM

A reminder of what this is really all about
STEALING PALESTINE
Confirmation from the Horse's mouth:
"Why should the Arabs make peace? If I was an Arab leader I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country. Sure God promised it to us, but what does that matter to them? Our God is not theirs. We come from Israel, but two thousand years ago, and what is that to them? "
David Ben Gurion
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 26 Jul 16 - 06:08 AM

If I say that millions of people in Lebanon and Gaza approve of Hezbollah and Hamas, I am stating an incontrovertible fact

How do you know this?
In Gaza the opposition has been eradicated, and there is no free press or elections.
Hezbollah may be popular with the Shia, but it is hated by the Sunnis.
It is a violent sectarian terror group.

This thread is about Labour party btw, not Middle East politics.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 26 Jul 16 - 06:15 AM

Malhotra (ex shadow cabinet minister)told BBC Radio 4's Westminster Hour Sunday night:

"I do think the leadership needs to do far more, I'm not the only person who has said this. I am of the view that there is a culture of bullying that has entered the Labour Party which isn't what we're about, it isn't what we stand for and it's something we have to stamp out and absolutely that has to start with the leader."

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jul 16 - 06:33 AM

Bullying now is it Keith? When are you going to get round to telling us that we'd better lock up our daughters whenever Jeremy comes within a hundred miles, or that the Labour left eat babies? Why was Malhotra still in her office a month after she resigned whereas Cameron had gone from Downing Street within days (probably had to jump the queue to get Pickfords in that fast)? Stop making a fool of yourself, Keith, is my advice. You're putting us out of a job.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 26 Jul 16 - 06:37 AM

Bullying now is it Keith?
Apparently.
According to an ex shadow cabinet minister anyway.
(I did not make it up Steve.)

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jul 16 - 06:37 AM

"This thread is about Labour party btw, not Middle East politics."

Have you PMed the other two members of your unholy trinity, bobad and Teribus, to tell them this? They don't appear to have noticed. You yourself have hardly been scrupulous in avoiding diversions either, have you? Hypocrite.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 26 Jul 16 - 07:21 AM

I have replied briefly to posts about ME, but refused to be drawn into discussion.
It is your side who keeps trying to bring it up.
Why?

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Jul 16 - 07:25 AM

"This thread is about Labour party "
This thread is abut whatever aspect of Antisemitism contributors wish to state their opinion on.
You have been happy to take part in this aspect of it until you began to tread water, if you can't hack it, leave it to those who t#can and stop manipulating this forum (again)
As Steve said, Antisemitism didn't work, misogyny didn't work - now bullying.
Do you know what the reputation of the Tory party is on all these subjects - go look them up.
They are all aprt of the rotten political system we live under and Labour comes out in front in all of them
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jul 16 - 07:44 AM

We don't have to try. You always respond, then when the going gets tough you bleat about thread drift. Tough. Mudcat has no rules about thread drift.

Hezbollah plays a full part in the democratically-elected government of Lebanon. You don't get to be in an elected government without some popularity. Why don't you find out what they do apropos of health, education and social services? Find out why they get elected? Of course, you won't bother finding out if you want to believe that all they ever do is hate Jews, try to eliminate Israel, strap explosives to their kids or fire rockets across the border. Likewise, Hamas. Read about their efforts to reach peaceful compromise with the most uncompromising regime on earth, their next-door bullying neighbour Israel. Read about how they struggle to keep the water flowing, keep hospitals and send kids to school in the world's biggest open-air prison. They also get a lot wrong. You won't be corrupted into supporting them, I promise. But just for once you will find out how these war-torn territories try to get by day by day even when the rockets aren't flying and the white phosphorus and helicopter gunships are on hold. We call it seeing both sides. If you believe that anyone in the Middle East who isn't actually a Jew is a Jew-hating sub-human, as bobad does and as you appear to do, you won't bother, of course.

By the way, what I've said about what Hamas and Hezbollah do in government could also be said about the Tories. Yeah, I support the Tories too, don't I? In your dreams, you clown.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 26 Jul 16 - 07:51 AM

This thread is about Labour, and there is no justification for you to keep trying to make it yet another Israel thread.

As Steve said, Antisemitism didn't work, misogyny didn't work - now bullying.

Antisemitism was a serious issue for Labour, according to its NEC, the Chakrabarti report and numerous senior figures within Labour, not me.

Misogyny and homophobia were flagged up as Labour Party problems
by prominent people within Labour, not me.

Now bullying is being seen as an issue, by a senior front-bencher, and by 44 women Labour MPs, not by me.

Jim, you make yourself ridiculous by denying all these serious issues and by claiming they come from me!

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Raggytash
Date: 26 Jul 16 - 08:00 AM

Not one response to the post regarding racism within the conservative party that I posted yesterday.

Why does he look at the speck of sawdust in his brothers eye when he pays no attention to the plank in his own. (to paraphrase Mark 7:3)

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Jul 16 - 08:24 AM

"This thread is about Labour,"
Then why did you participate in your old usual defending Israel
Som of us believe that the accusations of Antisemitism (now dismissed) originated with the Israeli propaganda campaign.
If you want to control what is argued on this thread you're going to have to find a way of copyrighting them
If you can't stand the hat, get out of the kitchen
You have been tolkd befiore ofte enough, you have no authority to censor what is said on this forum
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jul 16 - 09:06 AM

You are a hypocrite, Keith. You are indeed flagging up all these issues in this thread and you are doing it in an uhealthily obsessive way. When it comes to antisemitism, Labour has properly addressed it. Neither you nor bobad have ever addressed your own rampant antisemitism. People like you who conflate criticism of Israel with antisemitism (precisely what you're doing in the case of the Labour Party and precisely what you were doing with your discreditable attempt to claim that a defunct document was official EU policy on antisemitism) put all Jewish people in harm's way. I never do that, Jim never does that, the Labour Party doesn't do that, but the Israeli regime does that in spades and you and bobad are its sycophantic cheerleaders. You should be ashamed.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Teribus
Date: 26 Jul 16 - 09:08 AM

Jim Carroll - 26 Jul 16 - 04:04 AM

Lovely to see how well you demonstrate your hypocrisy.

You clearly have one set of rules that the Jewish nation must live by and adhere to and quite a different set of rules that apply to the Arab nations of the region.

As usual your views ignore reality and well documented fact. The territory that came to be referred to as "Palestine" in 1923 was open to settlement by all.

There have only ever been two instances where "Palestinian" Land has been stolen - both those instances occurred in 1948 when the Egyptians invaded and annexed the Gaza Strip from 1948 until 1967 and when the Jordanians invaded and occupied East Jerusalem and the West Bank.

In 1947 the Arabs rejected the two state solution proposed by the UN.

The Arabs chose war and lost, in the ensuing ceasefire negotiations no borders were ever defined.

Not really interested in Jom's conspiracy theories - I'd say that the Israeli Government has got a damned sight more to be bothered about than expending any time and effort in discrediting the Labour Party in the United Kingdom. Besides the Labour Party in the UK do more than a perfectly efficient job of bringing discredit on themselves without needing any outside assistance.

The anti-Semitic issue and concerns were reported, as Keith A originally stated, by Labour's NEC - the fact that Jom, Raggy & Shaw cannot accept that is typical of them - so they argue as though it was Keith A who came up with the allegations - when of course he didn't. Same with the other charges. These clowns may convince each other but they do not fool anyone else.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jul 16 - 09:22 AM

You are out of your depth, Teribus. You have a very long thread to wade through as well. All three of us have said, many times in some cases, that we have not denied the issue that arose. The Labour Party has properly addressed the issue and has carried out an enquiry and we accept the results. As Raggytash said, and what you and Keith simply can't accept, there is a world of difference between a serious issue and an issue taken seriously. Which it has been. Thoroughly and comprehensively and no-one here has denied it. Keith's sub-plot here is to obsessively blacken the Labour Party as much as possible. You're right: at present, Labour doesn't need help. And there is plenty of evidence in all the links to Israeli comment in this thread that the Israeli regime have plenty of energy when it comes to gleefully attacking Labour with all the relish they can muster. You see? Read the thread and straighten out your thinking, then your postings might just become a bit more believable.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 26 Jul 16 - 09:27 AM

Not one response to the post regarding racism within the conservative party that I posted yesterday.

There have been many such posts and even threads.
I never defend Tories or any other party. Why should I start now?

Jim,
Then why did you participate in your old usual defending Israel

Me yesterday,
"Jim, Israel is not accused of illegal actions by any liberal democracy, because it is just anti-Israel propaganda.
This thread is about the Labour Party, but if you want Israel's side of any particular event, do start a new thread or reopen one of the dozens already started."

Som of us believe that the accusations of Antisemitism (now dismissed) (now confirmed!!) originated with the Israeli propaganda campaign.

Only you actually Jim!

If you want to control what is argued on this thread you're going to have to find a way of copyrighting them

No. I will just stick to the subject and not get drawn in.
I find it amusing that you lefties are so desperate to change the subject.

If you can't stand the hat, get out of the kitchen

I have no opinion about your hat, but would enjoy another Israel thread. Please start one Jim.

steve,
You are indeed flagging up all these issues in this thread and you are doing it in an uhealthily obsessive way.

Nonsense Steve. In my lifetime I can not remember any serious party being in such a mess.
Of course it deserves a thread and of course such extraordinary things will be flagged up in it.

When it comes to antisemitism, Labour has properly addressed it.
Yes it has, but what a disgraceful thing. And you denied it at the time.
Of course it deserved mention in a thread about the many Labour crises!

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jul 16 - 09:40 AM

It's a handful of members, mostly junior, who need to watch their mouths, and the culprits have acknowledged what they did. Over half a million Labour members, on the other hand, have never been accused. That's how "disgraceful" it is. You can bet your life that if there are 200 people in your pews next Sunday, a few dozen of them would do a buttock shuffle if you told them that a devout Jewish family were moving in next door. But, you see, Keith, they don't get asked. They don't get to make high-profile public statements with hawkish media watching. There will be no enquiry. Unhealthy attitudes can be swept under the carpet. When carpets get folded back we see a horror story though, don't we. Four million people voted for a racist party in the last election. Millions of people were hoodwinked into voting out by a cynically racist campaign. Ugly stuff. But you'd rather concentrate on a few people constantly in the public eye who forgot to engage their brains before opening their mouths than address the ugly realities of racism perpetrated by people who you support. That makes you a hypocrite.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jul 16 - 09:56 AM

"Nonsense Steve. In my lifetime I can not remember any serious party being in such a mess."

You must still be a teenager then, Keith. Labour got an overall majority of 179 in 1997, and had the LibDems done a bit worse it would have looked even worse than that for the Tories. It was hardly better next time round either. Let's see if Theresa can manage a majority of 180 NEXT time round, shall we, Keith? 😂😂😂

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 26 Jul 16 - 10:13 AM

It's a handful of members, mostly junior, who need to watch their mouths, and the culprits have acknowledged what they did. Over half a million Labour members, on the other hand, have never been accused. That's how "disgraceful" it is.

You would call it disgraceful in any other party.
And they do not need to "watch their mouths" but educate themselves out of the antisemitism betrayed by their mouths.

You can bet your life that if there are 200 people in your pews next Sunday, a few dozen of them would do a buttock shuffle if you told them that a devout Jewish family were moving in next door.

A disgusting falsehood Steve.
I would bet my life not one.

You must still be a teenager then, Keith.

No, because this is nothing to do with polling, but a party "teetering on the edge of extinction."
There has been nothing like the current Labour shambles in our lifetime.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Jul 16 - 10:18 AM

"Jim, Israel is not accused of illegal actions by any liberal democracy, because it is just anti-Israel propaganda."
Your point is....?
You were happy enough to make your pro-Israeli points yesterday but not to defend them when challenged.
"Only you actually Jim!"
Not necessarily true, but so what - can I only make points that are accepted by others - another self-concocted rule?
"This thread is about the Labour Party"
This thread is about whatever we regard is relevant to this subject - can't see your little copyright mark anywhere
Will you please stop breaking the rules of this forum by attempting to censor inconvenient facts - you do this far too much
"No. I will just stick to the subject and not get drawn in."
Who cares whether you join in or not - we know what you will say anyway
"Please start one Jim."
Please mind your own business
"I find it amusing that you lefties are so desperate to change the subject."
And I find it hilarious how you right wing extremists always revert to censorship when the going gets tough - tanks and paras next maybe?
DO NOT ATTEMPT TO INTERFERE WITH MY CONTRIBUTIONS TO THIS FORUM EVER AGAIN - WHO THE HELL DO YOU THINK YOU ARE?

"Not really interested in Jom's conspiracy theories"
Not really interested in braindeads who attemp to hide their affliction by talking down to people permanently, particularly those who can't be bothered to learn to spell three-letter words - come back when somebody's taught you how to conduct yourself in public.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Raggytash
Date: 26 Jul 16 - 11:29 AM

Don't you just love it !!

"Teribus" talks of "Palestine" as so it is a figment of someone's imagination rather like Akenaton and his gay "marriage"

Neither can accept that both are a reality, there is a state of Palestine which in 2001 applied for United Nations membership.

In 2012 Palestine was granted non-member observer state status. That in itself clearly demonstrates that the UN acknowledge it's statehood.

Mind you he has said that Palestine was created by Yassar Arafat in he 1970' despite it being mentioned in the Bible.

Must dig that post of "Terbus's" out it was hilarious, a first class example of uneducated bluster.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jack Campin
Date: 26 Jul 16 - 11:55 AM

There is a serious issue with racism in the Labour Party but it has nothing to do with anti-Semitism.

The Brexit campaign was the deadliest racist initiative in the UK since the rise of Mosley, and what did Labour do to fight it? Fuck all. And that particularly goes for Corbyn. Pathetic bunch of wimps, at best, and racist collaborators at worst.

It would not have been that difficult to flush Farage and his pals down the toilet of history if they'd actually reached up to pull the chain. Instead they did NOTHING, with a few honourable exceptions like Jo Cox (who would still be alive if the UKIP soldier who killed her had seen he was outnumbered by a united opposition).

Labour is a moribund irrelevance, and good riddance to it.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jul 16 - 11:58 AM

No-one has been found guilty of antisemitism, you arrogant sod. I haven't heard a single reported remark that attacked Jews BECAUSE THEY ARE JEWS. I would neither stay in nor vote for a party that allowed comments like that to pass and I've never allowed it in my own personal life, including in 25 years in secondary school classrooms. Yes I've heard unguarded remarks about Israel, Zionism and the Nazis that were bloody stupid and made without regard for consequences but there has been no attack on Jews as Jews, allegedly apart from the one about the slave trade that you had to misrepresent so as to wedge it into your antisemitism box (nothing as bad as "culturally implanted," was it, though, Keith?). Stuff your silly personal definition of antisemitism where the sun don't shine, why don't you. Unbelievable. I mean, who do you think you are, judge, jury and executioner? Are you sure you can spare the time from your job as self-appointed forum policeman? So you reckon that no-one who goes to church is antisemitic, eh, notwithstanding the fact that religion is THE basis for sectarianism and hatred of The Other the world over? Only Labour members, eh? Add gross naivety to your long list of personality defects, Keith! 😂

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jul 16 - 12:10 PM

That was to Keith, Jack.

"Racist collaborators" is a bit strong. Calling the racist agenda out for what it was because of its attacks on immigrants would have been like calling half the country racist and that would hardly have swung the bloody thing round. The remain campaign was uncoordinated and tactically bereft and made worse by the employment of the fear factor, and the out campaign always had that immigration trump card, used cynically to the full. Let's not forget that Cameron and May had sealed their own fate by promising to control immigration and failing abysmally. I agree that Labour did not exhibit a strong, united front and that Corbyn lacked genuine commitment. But the Tories, who forced the bloody referendum on us, was split from arse to tit, which doomed Cameron in the end.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 26 Jul 16 - 12:42 PM

Jim,
And I find it hilarious how you right wing extremists always revert to censorship when the going gets tough

There are no right wing extremists here, and censorship is impossible for ordinary members.
I do not want you to stop discussing Israel. I would welcome the chance to debunk all your propaganda again. I just will not help you to hijack a thread that has nothing whatever to do with Israel.

jack,

There is a serious issue with racism in the Labour Party but it has nothing to do with anti-Semitism.
The NEC, the Chakrabarti report and numerous prominent Labour politicians disagree with you on that.

No-one has been found guilty of antisemitism, you arrogant sod.

Yes they have, but Chakrabarti chose not to name them. (Peerage on its way?)
Shah has admitted that she made antisemitic statements due to her ignorance of the issues.

Your denial of her and others' antisemitism just shows that you do not recognise it when you see it. Labour accepts it for what it was. Why won't you Steve?

So you reckon that no-one who goes to church is antisemitic,

CofE yes. And I know them better than you.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 26 Jul 16 - 12:51 PM

This article has been written by 14 Labour Party members: Honor Cohen, Ilford North; Emma O'Dwyer, Hackney North; Carli Harper, Greenwich and Woolwich; Katie Curtis, Hornsey and Wood Green; Estelle Hart, Gower; Melantha Chittenden, Ashford; Vic Langer, Hornsey and Wood Green; Chantel Le Carpentier, Eastleigh; Katrina Gilman, Telford; Ruth Meadows, Telford; Natacha Kennedy, Eltham; Deirdre Costigan, Ealing North; Amy Lame, Holborn and St Pancras; Katie Hanson, Hackney South and Shoreditch.

"The Labour Party is the party of equality. It was past Labour governments that decriminalised homosexuality and introduced comprehensive legislative change on LGBT rights. The Labour Party has played a distinguished and major part in making the UK a more open and tolerant society on issues of sexuality and women's rights over the past few decades.

Yet now, under political pressure, the debate within the Labour Party about its future direction is coarsened by misogyny aimed at women politicians and open homophobia directed at a leadership candidate."

"The misogyny and homophobia that women politicians and party members experience on social media when people have political differences needs to stop – but the frequency with which it happens makes reporting and taking action an endless task. We have relatively few women in parliament and in local government who are out so, when high profile out women politicians are trolled online, degraded in meetings and receive death threats by email, increasing representation from this group can only be held back."

"There is a worrying further development, namely the denial of prejudice. In the back and forth on social media, broadcast media and in the press there are repeated denials of any sexist or homophobic motive in criticism aimed at candidates and those who have openly taken a political side. This denial occurs even when clearly there is prejudice, and there is evidence that there is."
http://labourlist.org/2016/07/if-homophobia-is-allowed-back-into-politics-then-it-takes-society-back-to-the-dark-ages/

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Raggytash
Date: 26 Jul 16 - 01:30 PM

Anything specific about any one or more given person ................


No thought not.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Jul 16 - 01:33 PM

"There are no right wing extremists here"
Know thyself Keith
"and censorship is impossible for ordinary members"
I'm fully aware of that, are you - if so, why do you keep trying to manipulate these threads - you have been doing it for years ad have been warned against it numerous times.
I assume that, now you are aware of it, it won't happen again!!
homophobia
Yet another stick to beat Labour with - this has acquired an air of desperation.
"CofE yes. And I know them better than you."
Utter bloody nonsense
Churchgoers are just as likely to be homophobic as anybody from other community or group in Britain.
Religion, by its very teaching, is homophobic and it would be a miracle if there weren't hordes of churchgoers of every denomination who weren't deeply homophobic.
Not that you would know - you have displayed some of the most inhuman and non-Christian attitudes I have ever come across.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 26 Jul 16 - 01:50 PM

So I have been warned many times against doing something that is impossible anyway!

I do not want to censor your nonsense about Israel.
I am encouraging you to expose your gullibility to propaganda again, but this thread has nothing to do with Israel or the Middle East.

This thread is about the UK Labour Party.
Please, please start one about Israel Jim.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Jul 16 - 01:51 PM

"Anything specific about any one or more given person ..."
This is no more than a thrashing around to pin things on the Labour party that are present in every aspect of British life
CHURCH of ENGLAND
CHURCH of ENGLAND
CHURCH of ENGLAND
As I said - bloody nonsense
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Raggytash
Date: 26 Jul 16 - 01:54 PM

What was it Boris Johnson called African children ??? "Piccaninnies" wasn't it and Africans have "Watermelon" smiles wasn't it, again according to Johnson.

Now if you're talking about appalling comments I'd start with the Tory party.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Jul 16 - 02:10 PM

"I am encouraging you to expose your gullibility to propaganda again"
And I am inviting you to provide some real proof other than "Israel says they did't do it and the silence of self-serving politicians who sell arms to monsters and stayed silent for 14 years while America poured burning petrol down on Vietnamese peasants.
How stupid can you get?
I take it we've heart#d the last of your "thread-drift" gambit when you find yourself in the klarts!!
"Please, please start one about Israel Jim."
Stop grovelling and take your punishment like a man
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jul 16 - 02:27 PM

"Your denial of her and others' antisemitism just shows that you do not recognise it when you see it. Labour accepts it for what it was. Why won't you Steve?"

The Labour Party has not found her or anyone else guilty of antisemitism. You have because you want that wider definition of yours, which you've already lied in your teeth to us about, to apply. She made an extremely stupid remark about relocating "Israel" to the US. Israel is a country, Keith. It contains a quarter Arabs and three-quarters Jews. If I say that South Africans are bastards, that would be an extremely stupid remark, but not racist. Even though most South Africans are black, a considerable number are not. If I say that black South Africans are bastards, that's racist. If I say that all the Jews should be removed from Israel, that's antisemitic. Antisemitism is a crime against people, not against a whole country. There is a world of difference between a bloody stupid, thoughtless remark and an antisemitic remark. The far right, including you, the Mail and the Telegraph are the people calling her antisemitic. The Labour Party have not said that. So stop lying. And please stop providing us with interpretable comments as if they are proof. Find me instead a Labour official who says that Naz Shah is antisemitic.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 26 Jul 16 - 03:16 PM

Jim,
And I am inviting you to provide some real proof other than "Israel says they did't do it

Start a thread then Jim. This on is about UK Labour Party.

Steve,

The Labour Party has not found her or anyone else guilty of antisemitism.

Yes they have Steve.
You denied the antisemitism, but the Labour Party has recognised it.
Shay has recognised it in herself, and with the help of the Jewish community has informed herself of the real evil.

1000 anyone?
My gift.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Jul 16 - 03:28 PM

LLong LLLLive the Liberal LLLLLLabor Party