BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Aug 16 - 03:32 PM

Whoops - missed the links:
Didn't want yuo to think I was making it up:
Aggression
Gun Owenership
There - save all the time and money of having to visit the Psych, doesn't it
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 11 Aug 16 - 03:58 PM

Jim,
"No. You gave it as an actual quote."
Which is how I first herd it - the fact that I was unable to trace it was immaterial

It is material that no-one ever said it and your "quote" was made up shit.

You attempted to deny or at least play down the role of some of the British 'Great and Good' who actually supported Hitler and the Nazis.

Some? How many?
Britain went to war with Hitler, and stood alone against his seemingly unstoppable war machine. They did not have to.
It was a choice that everyone knew would have a terrible cost, and it did.

I did not - I put it down to a reportedly overheard conversation in Westminster.

Reprted by who Jim?
You were unable to find any such report because it was never reported.
It was made up propaganda.

Steve,
I referred to Israel regime apologists.

Who happened to be Jews, and you have yet to substantiate you claim that they are apologists for anyone.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Greg F.
Date: 11 Aug 16 - 04:05 PM

Israel cares more about the Palestinians that the Palestinian leaders care about them

That's the most laughable piece of bullshit I've heard in many years. Review the ACTUAL conditions and regulations they live under in Gaza and the occupied territories.

Oh yeah, Bubo I forgot. Apologies. No facts need apply.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Aug 16 - 04:23 PM

You quoted two Israel apologists because they were Jews. You pinned that on them deliberately in an attempt to derail the conversation. Well I could have made your point for you by naming Israel apologists who are not Jews. How many do you want me to name? You named two who were Jews in order to exploit them for your silly game. That makes you the archetypal antisemite.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 11 Aug 16 - 05:01 PM

Review the ACTUAL conditions and regulations they live under in Gaza and the occupied territories.

Hamas produced video of Gaza - the hashtag reads thank you Hamas: YouTube

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Aug 16 - 05:05 PM

"Which is how I first herd it - the fact that I was unable to trace it was immaterial"
Which is true - what's your point?
"It is material that no-one ever said it and your "quote" was made up shit."
You actually said it was implausible whence the difference?
"Reprted by who Jim?"
Been hrre dio=ne that, please tryy to keep up
Do you want a list?
"You were unable to find any such report because it was never reported."
Fuckof andf stop calling me a liar - how do you know it wasn't reported?
Where the dozen or so people who have related it over my lifetime all telling lies?
If you7 call ,y a liar again, I'll proceed to pit together the list of lies you have told - I'll probably start with the one you told abot never having dismissed the song as a joke.
Why is this so important to you Keith -   why is is illogical - what are you hiding that you feing it so important to deny it?
What a bunch olf loyal Klansmen you are between you
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Greg F.
Date: 11 Aug 16 - 05:11 PM

Hamas produced video of Gaza - the hashtag reads thank you Hamas:

And that has to do with the actual conditions the poor bastards live under courtesy of the Israeli Government HOW exactly?

Oh, sorry, my bad - forgot no facts need apply in Bubo Land..

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 11 Aug 16 - 05:16 PM

Yep, Gaza sure looks like the world's largest open air prison.........lol, lol, lol!

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Aug 16 - 05:23 PM

I warn you Keith - if you ever call me a liar again I will do my best to have you removed from this Forum
You have been caught out over and over again lying and distorting _ I never have.
I don't lie - you really don't have to when you are arguing with no-nothing morons
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Greg F.
Date: 11 Aug 16 - 06:00 PM

Yep, Gaza sure looks like the world's largest open air prison

Absolutely, Bubo! Thanks for finally admitting it.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Aug 16 - 06:10 PM

Yes Keith. Keith the archetypal liar, Keith the archetypal antisemite. You are a disgrace to this forum.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 11 Aug 16 - 06:36 PM

You are a disgrace to this forum.

How many times has Keith been threatened with suspension?

How many times has Shaw been threatened with suspension?

QED

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Greg F.
Date: 11 Aug 16 - 07:05 PM

Bubo: How many times have you posted absolute hateful bigoted bullshit?

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Aug 16 - 07:09 PM

Isn't it time this thread was switched off?

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Greg F.
Date: 11 Aug 16 - 08:02 PM

More like time that Bubo was switched off.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Teribus
Date: 12 Aug 16 - 02:09 AM

Steve Shaw - PM
Date: 11 Aug 16 - 06:10 PM

"Yes Keith. Keith the archetypal liar, Keith the archetypal antisemite. You are a disgrace to this forum."

The only problems you have with that statement there Shaw is that having been repeatedly asked throughout all the threads where you and your pals have been hunting and mobbing this particular member, to provide examples and instances of him being a "liar", etc, etc. You have never once been able to come up with one single example. As far as I am aware not once has Keith A been censured for his behaviour on this forum, whereas you and your pals have been publicly on numerous occasions - it is you who are the disgrace.

Now in the light of your remarks quoted above may I remind you of something else you said not that long ago:

Steve Shaw - 08 Aug 16 - 07:08 PM

"Now let's see. You make an accusation ............. The onus is squarely on your shoulders to prove your claim, not on us to disprove what you say. You started it, so let's see you seeing this through."

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Aug 16 - 04:20 AM

Why do you always talk down to your superiors?
Why do you always sound like a pompous Victorian schoolteacher?
Why do you never say anything of importance?
Why do you always make claims without evidence and refuse to supply it when requested?
Why do you strut and bully instead of putting your arguments as if you believed them yourself instead of hoping to bully them across.
Why do you act as minder to Keith as if he was a mental deficient on a day out (rhetorical question)
Keith is an inveterate liar - get him to explain why he lied about the Antisemitic Song argument being "made up"
Or maybe you can get him to explain why he had denied his "Pakistani implant" claim about a dozen times, each time, when being presented with it, reverting to another lie, "I only said it because somebody told me it was true
You want proof of your bullying, pomposity and bullshit - happy to oblige
On the other hand, if you want to prove that the Labour Party is Antisemitic and what form that Antisemitism has been displayed.
Otherwise, I agree entirely with Mac - you have failed to substantiate your claims - about anything, rather, you have presented us with a spectacular display of hypocrisy, dishonesty and infantile belligerence.
Unless you have any evidence for your arguments, it is time this thread was switched off - it's only purpose it to allow you to humiliate yourselves even further - don't think that's possible, do you?.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Aug 16 - 04:30 AM

Steve,

You quoted two Israel apologists because they were Jews. You pinned that on them deliberately in an attempt to derail the conversation. Well I could have made your point for you by naming Israel apologists who are not Jews. How many do you want me to name?

I quoted them because they were both Labour MPs (one now a peer).
Their views count even if they are Jews as well.
Their views on antisemitism would still count even if they were "Israel apologists," an accusation that you can not justify anyway.

How many Labour Jews can you name who think Chakrabarti was fair?
My guess in none, but over to you.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Aug 16 - 04:46 AM

Jim,
"Which is how I first herd it - the fact that I was unable to trace it was immaterial"
Which is true - what's your point?

That you tried to pass it off as a genuine quote when you had no reason to believe that except some bloke in a pub told you!
Even you are not that gullible Jim.
I doubt there was any such bloke. You made it all up, as you so often do.

"You were unable to find any such report because it was never reported."
Fuckof andf stop calling me a liar - how do you know it wasn't reported?

Because if such an outrageous statement from a politician had really been reported, there would be many references to it.
The fact there are none proves it never happened.

Keith is an inveterate liar - get him to explain why he lied about the Antisemitic Song argument being "made up"

I have never said it was made up, so that is, erm...., a lie Jim.

Or maybe you can get him to explain why he had denied his "Pakistani implant" claim

Because I made no such claim Jim.
I said I believed it because prominent people from within the community were saying that it came from the culture.
I admitted knowing nothing about that and thus unable to form an opinion or make any claim about it.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Aug 16 - 04:54 AM

Well I have a big surprise for you, Keith. With very few exceptions I haven't a CLUE who in Labour is a Jew or who isn't a Jew. You have deliberately singled out two Jews who are against Chakrabarti, so that when anyone here dares to disagree with them you can do your big antisemitism thing. Well singling out Jews in order to make them targets like that is antisemitism. You are one of the two worst antisemites on this forum. And,Teribus old chum, Keith's dishonesty has been revealed many times. Try looking back at his Wheatcroft debacle, or his deliberate misquotes and partial quotes in this thread, or his lies about the EUMC working document.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Aug 16 - 05:57 AM

"That you tried to pass it off as a genuine quote "
You are lying again Keith - I told exactly how I came across it and have nver altered that
I said it was something I had been told when I was young.
The facts of British Fascism make it not only possible but quite likely"
Despite the war, Antisemitism was still rife in Britain - things began to change when news of the Holocaust was accepted.
"believe that except some bloke in a pub told you!"
Lying agaon - it was a story current in my family, later confirmed when I moved to Manchester, and again in London
Whay are you defending this Antisemitism Keith?
The fact of the story is only part of the argument anyway
YOU CAOMPARED THAT OBSCENELY ANTISEMITIC SONNG TO THE THEME SONG OF DAD'S ARMY - WHICH, FOR ME, CONFIRMS YOUR OWN ATTITUDE TOWARDS ANTISEMITISM
You lied then, and you continue to lie - show where I said I heard this story in a pub - you are really the pits
Why did you lie and deny you ever said it - you even claimed I made it up.
not true. Produce a quote why don't you?!
"Because I made no such claim Jim."
You have constantly first denied making your obscenely racist statement then reverting to your fictional "prominent people" which are invented anyway, so , lies in themselves.
You have also claimd to have produced their statements implicating the entire Pakistani population - another string of lies.
You never have and have persistently refused to produce any such people
Never call anybody on this forum a liar again - not with your track record.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 12 Aug 16 - 07:29 AM

"Israel apologists,"

There's nothing to apologize for a country defending it's citizens against those who would annihilate them, unless it's a Jewish country it seems.

As the old saying goes: "The Germans will never forgive the Jews for Auschwitz."

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Teribus
Date: 12 Aug 16 - 07:30 AM

Superiors Jom?

"A story I heard from somebody" - "Somebody told me" - So it must be true - Are you insane??? - Do you actually EVER check anything?

It was the same with your "summary execution" bullshit, where as holes were blown in your little myth you changed your story, digging yourself in deeper with every change and twist. You couldn't give any detail in that case and you can't give any now.

There is not a single fact that either myself, Keith A or bobad has offered up that you can dispute.

Tell me Jom, as you are emphasising the importance of obscenely anti-Semitic songs, which group in what political party are singing that song's modern day equivalent? As you will most definitely not address this point, I will provide the answers - the group are the hard-left in Momentum and they are all paid up members of the Labour Party - evidence of this? It was just one of the instances that prompted the resignation of Alex Chalmers and caused Labour's NEC to launch her investigation into anti-Semitism within the OULC, findings from that Inquiry led to an additional inquiry with a much wider remit and Shami Chakrabarti was charged with leading that second Inquiry - Had there been "no problem" as you suggest, none of that would ever have happened.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Teribus
Date: 12 Aug 16 - 07:45 AM

Steve Shaw - 12 Aug 16 - 04:54 AM

"Teribus old chum, Keith's dishonesty has been revealed many times."

No it has not. Just because you say so means absolutely nothing

"Try looking back at his Wheatcroft debacle"

The "Wheatcroft debacle" as you term it can be cleared up in your next post.

Cut and Paste Keith A of Hertford's first reference to Wheatcroft and his article. Then point out what he got wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Raggytash
Date: 12 Aug 16 - 07:45 AM

Care to tell us just what the Conservative or UKip Parties have done within their own parties.










Wait for denial that such things happen within those two bodies.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Aug 16 - 07:56 AM

Steve,
I have quoted a number of high profile Labour members, Jews and non-Jews, who are unhappy about Labour antisemitism and Chakrabarti.
You dismissed two ( and Jim several more) because they were "Israel apologists" but you seem unable to justify that claim.

I think that the views of Jews on antisemitism should always be taken seriously, and I am not aware of any who disgree with those referred to.

Clearly, you can't either!

Try looking back at his Wheatcroft debacle,

Yes please! You falsely accused me of misquoting.

or his deliberate misquotes and partial quotes in this thread,

No examples of which you will produce because it is bollocks.

or his lies about the EUMC working document.

Lies? I just quoted it and linked to it.
Just google, "The European Parliament Working Group on Antisemitism."
You will see that it still stands and as you have been shown their definitions of antisemitism have been accepted far beyond EU.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Teribus
Date: 12 Aug 16 - 07:57 AM

Raggytash - 12 Aug 16 - 07:45 AM

"Care to tell us just what the Conservative or UKip Parties have done within their own parties."

And whoever it is that you want to respond to that question would be able to answer that authoritatively how? Or are you just preparing the ground for another of your "fisking" expeditions.

Have the Conservative Party or UKIP had people resign due to concerns over the safety of members participation in meetings and rallies?

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Aug 16 - 08:12 AM

Jim,
"That you tried to pass it off as a genuine quote "
You are lying again Keith - I told exactly how I came across it and have nver altered that

Not true Jim.
You originally stated,
"When the news of the extermination of the Jews reached Britain one Tory Minister described it "the invention of whingeing Yids"."

no reference to you haveing been told that by some bloke.
Just a statement of fact that was no such thing.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Aug 16 - 08:21 AM

"Superiors Jom? "
You - and I was referring to everybody - your behaviour makes you inferior to everybody here with the exception of your little clique - with them, neck and neck, I'd say.
"Are you insane"
Nope - but you are incredibly stupid to pointedly ignore what I said in publica and then blatantly misrepresent it,
I said it was a story I heard from a young age which was repeated to be at varios stages of my life in three cities in Britain -
I have never said it "must be true" - another spectacular display of your dishonesty.
I said that given the fact that it is a widespread one and given the fact that there is plenty of evidence that the Nazis had support from the upper echelons in wartime Britain, it was quite likely - no more.
I asked you why you dismiss it out of hand - you prefer to lie and bullshit rather than answer.
Politicians, members of The House of Lords, sections of Royalty, press Barons, industrialists.... all expressed support for the Nazis - would you like me to re-present Lord Rothermere's glowing praise of Hitler and his actions so you can ignore them all over again?
No - thought not.
Your stupidity and ongoing public dishonesty underlines just where you stand in all this - certainly not the brightest button on the steward's uniform.
Are people singing Antisemitic songs today - no idea - you seenm to move in those circles - not me.
Both inquiries into the Labour Party came to nothing - nothing was found - those who made the c charges in the first place now have leaked reports - no details, no numbers - nothing.
It would have been irresponsible to ignore those accusations in the first place - that's why enquiries were held.
he Tory Party ha been accused of Islamophobia - nothing - hardly surprising from a party that appoints an unqualified braindead who publicly spouts racism as FOREIGN SECRETARY
" Just because you say so means absolutely nothing"
You have just been pesented with examples of it, so your denials mean absolutely nothing
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Aug 16 - 09:02 AM

Meant to ask yu.
What aspect of your charming personality makes you anything other than inferior
'Bout time you got a grip, don't you think?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Aug 16 - 09:52 AM

Jim, here is another silly antisemitic song for you, as you consider them historically relevant.
It was sung by Irish Republicans during WW2.

In an article in History Ireland, Brian Hanley of Queen's University quotes a poetic tribute to Hitler from the Sinn Fein publication War News.
'Oh here's to Adolf Hitler,

Who made the Britons squeal,

Sure before the fight is ended
They will dance an Irish reel.'

As Hanley notes, in July 1940 the IRA leadership issued a statement outlining its position on the war. The statement made it clear that if "German forces should land in Ireland, they will land. . . as friends and liberators of the Irish people".

Apologists for the republican pro-Nazi line suggest that they were simply following a time-honoured strategy of "England's difficulty being Ireland's opportunity".
But it is clear that some of the republicans embraced Nazi ideology as well.

The Third Reich was praised as the "energising force" of European politics and the "guardian" of national freedom.

War News condemned the arrival in Ireland of "so-called Jewish refugees". "The Jews," the paper warned, were "like the English, when they are strong they bully and rule."
http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/jig-heil-the-freeborn-irish-who-saluted-the-fhrer-26631832.html

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Aug 16 - 09:57 AM

War News, the IRA's main publication, became increasingly pro-Nazi in tone, even claiming active IRA involvement in the German bombing of British cities. But more chillingly it began to ape anti-Semitic arguments. Satisfaction was expressed that the 'cleansing fire' of the German armies was driving the Jews from Europe. British war minister Hore Belisha was described as a 'wealthy Jew' only interested in 'profits'. War News condemned the arrival in Ireland of 'so-called Jewish refugees', along with unspecified numbers of 'Albanian, Abyssinian, Mongolian [and] Tartars'. These new arrivals were not only supposedly putting Irish people out of work but also exploiting those that they employed. Belfast was said to be increasingly in the 'hands of international Jewry' because of this influx. 'The Jews', War News warned, were 'like the English, when they are strong they bully and rule.' In Dublin de Valera's government was also dominated by 'Jews and Freemasons' who were becoming the 'new owners of Ireland'. Fianna Fáil TD Robert Briscoe was singled out for attack.
http://www.historyireland.com/20th-century-contemporary-history/oh-heres-to-adolph-hitler-the-ira-and-the-nazis/

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Greg F.
Date: 12 Aug 16 - 10:02 AM

Oh dear god not "The Professor And Ireland Show" repeated YET AGAIN?

Will no one free us from this turbulent jackass?

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 12 Aug 16 - 10:08 AM

The Irish as Nazi supporters and haters of Jews.........nah!

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Raggytash
Date: 12 Aug 16 - 10:46 AM

"putting Irish people out of work but also exploiting those that they employed"

So which was it, putting people out of work or employing them.


Bit of an oxymoron that not surprisingly.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Aug 16 - 11:30 AM

How on earth does the IRA's attitude excuse your lying antisemitic behaviour here - who the **** supports the IRA?
Do you really believe everybody who lives in Ireland is an IRA supporter?
Bet you have every bit as much evidence as you have for your "brainwashed Irish children" claim.
"The Irish as Nazi supporters and haters of Jews."
Anti-Irish as wel as Antisemitic my little kapo friend
ice to see your loyalty in joining up with somebody who trivialises the Holocaust though - that's real dedication to the cause!!
Bottom-of-the-barrel time folks - all else has run into a blank wall.
For your info - in general, Ireland is one of the mostw welcome countries towards strangers that I've ever been in - beats London's record hands down.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Aug 16 - 11:42 AM

For your information - ftom the
From the TIMES of ISRAEL
"The Limerick community dissipated after the so-called Limerick Pogrom in 1904, essentially an anti-Jewish economic boycott rather than a physical attack. It was the only blatant, organized anti-Semitic incident in modern Irish history."
So there you go - the last "blatant, organized anti-Semitic incident in modern Irish history" took place under British rule.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Teribus
Date: 12 Aug 16 - 11:57 AM

"I have never said it "must be true" - says Jom

Ah Jom, so are you saying that somebody (A bloke in a Pub - well it must have been three pubs if the latest version of your story is to be believed - three different blokes? Or have you got a "Stalker"?) told you the tale and that you do not necessarily believe it? In which case why mention it at all if you think it false? Passing on information you know, or believe, to be false - isn't that lying?

But like the scurrilous story of the summary executions your little class-warrior mentality and rabid anglophobia jumped at the lie and you swallowed it "hook-line-and-sinker" just like you swallowed this fable about "your" Tory Minister (The one nobody could name), that then changed to Tory Politicians (Oddly enough none of them could be named or identified either).

Raggytash - 12 Aug 16 - 10:46 AM

Good heavens Raggy, being "picky" again, your trouble is that you have no sense of scope and absolutely no imagination at all. Do you really mean to tell me that under no circumstances at all could it be possible for the situation described to ever happen? (I'll give you a hint Raggy - it was how the British gained their Empire)

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Teribus
Date: 12 Aug 16 - 12:24 PM

"So there you go - the last "blatant, organized anti-Semitic incident in modern Irish history" took place under British rule."

And the 1904 Limerick Pogram, was organised and fomented by Fr John Creagh and his parishioners, NOTHING whatsoever to do with British Rule, more to do with mob rule under the direction of the Church. The RIC did their utmost to protect lives and property.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Aug 16 - 12:42 PM

" well it must have been three pubs if the latest version of your story is to be believed -"
are you actually going to prove I have in any way altered what I originally said or do you intend to continue to display your inferiority by lying in your teeth?
Just curious
I ask again, why are you so keen to disprove this story (and humiliate yourself at the same time) when the existence of pro - Nazis in Westminster is proven fact - is the 'good name' of a couple of establishment fascists really worth all the puff and bluster.
"But like the scurrilous story of the summary executions your little class-warrior mentality"
You were directly linked to that particular "scurrilous little story" - bur as always, you know better.
It came from a diary entry of one of those "lying" Tommies and was put up by his grandson.
Couldn't have been true - didn't fit in your claim of all those magnificent leaders (like 'Wrong-Shell' Kitchener) who sent a generation of young men to their deaths.
Your inferiority - like Pinocchio's nose, continues to grow each time you post.
You've moved on from being a pompous blow-hard to joining the other pair of trolls under their bridge
Your 'arguments' are little more than vituperative hate mail now - but please continue to "huff and to puff' and see what house you can blow down between you.
BUT PLEASE FEEL FREE TO KEEP IT UP
How about that evidence of Labour antisemitism - you know, numbers and examples - any joy yet?

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Aug 16 - 12:52 PM

Jim, there were Fascist supporters in every country.
The Irish Republicans had no influence on the Irish people. Very few fought for Hitler but tens of thousands crossed to Britain and joined up.
Those few Tories had no influence here. The government chose to go to war against Hitler and the people supported them.

Now, we were discussing Labour's problems until you dredged up WW2 having already dredged up Israel and much else as you always do when losing an argument.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Aug 16 - 01:20 PM

"Jim, there were Fascist supporters in every country."
And I have no doubt you would defend them all if you were called upon to do so
Wonder how many moronic defence is that Keith - he did it sir, so it must be ok if I do it
Don't be a prick all your life.
"The Irish Republicans had no influence on the Irish people"
Sorry - what planet are we on now?
Who on earth suggested they did - forgotten your meds again?
"Those few Tories had no influence here."
So - they would have done if Germany had won the war - as it possibly could have.
This argument has no place here
You trivialised the persecution, later to turn into extermination, of the Jewish People by comparing offensive Antisemitism to the theme song of a sit-com - you apparently don't rate such stuff as important - which I already had guessed.
You lied about having done so - fine again - it's what we've come to expect from you.
World War Two is extremely relevent, for it provides us with a perfect example of the consequence of your 'Dad's Army' trivialisation.
Israel is vital to this discussion because it is a widely-held opinion that the accusations of Antisemitism originated from her attempts to block the Boycott of her goods.
I do hope you're not going to drift into your "Thread-drift" mode again - you've been warned about that on numerous occasions "
This really would never have happened if you hadn't called somebody a liar and a racist.
You are both, and if you do it again I'll dredge up some more of your lies and racism.
Now why not bite the bullet and put your mask back on and pretend it awas all a bad dream!!
You are an incredibly stupid little man to provoke these incidents
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Teribus
Date: 12 Aug 16 - 04:04 PM

You originally stated,

"When the news of the extermination of the Jews reached Britain one Tory Minister described it "the invention of whingeing Yids"."

Change 1: It grew from "one Tory Minister" to "some Tory politicians"

Change 2: That you were told this in three separate cities

Yet out of all this gabbing about anti-semitic Tory Ministers there are no direct quotes and nobody can identify the source of this alleged comment.

The population of the United Kingdom in 1939 was ~47 million and so far you have the Red Book crowd of ~250 people who had prior to the commencement of hostilities had voiced support for Hitler. Lord Rothermere the newspaper owner you keep harping on about died in 1940 and handed over the newspaper to his son in 1932.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Raggytash
Date: 12 Aug 16 - 04:51 PM

I realise that you are not an educated man Teri but I would have supposed even someone of your limited intelligence could perceive what an oxymoron is when you saw one.

I, perhaps, am being a little generous in giving you the credence to understanding what an oxymoron actually is.

Ah well, that's the problem of dealing with the such people.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Raggytash
Date: 12 Aug 16 - 04:56 PM

From the professor:

"The Irish Republicans had no influence on the Irish people"

Classic, absolutely bloody classic.

Well worth remembering that wonderful contribution ! !

Well done professor you keep coming up with them ! ! !

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Aug 16 - 07:43 PM

" It grew from "one Tory Minister" to "some Tory politicians""
It was an oberheard conversion if you read what was written.
I also said it might have been aaan apocryphal story, but the existent of an active group of Fascists within the upper echelons of the British establishment alongside the fact that the story was common throughout various parts of Britain among people who were living at the time made it quite likely it was true - a far cry from your "it must be true" "fellers in a pub".
I have no idea of the circumstances - it was a common from people who were around
I am fascinated by the effort you are putting into defending State fascism - but not in the least surprised.   
"In the Second World War, Britain was not willing to attempt to rescue the Jews of Europe in any meaningful way. It was not only imperial Realpolitikthat made the British close the gates of Palestine. We know that officials in the Colonial and Foreign offices and people in the administration in Palestine were far from immune to antisemitic sentiment while supporting an Arab state after the 1939 White Paper.
"During the war the British government was obsessed by the fear that their fight against Hitler could be construed as a war on behalf of the Jews. To avoid 'fighting a Jewish war' became a kind of alibi for the British authorities to do almost nothing for the Jews. Britain's solemn commitment to create a Jewish National Home in Palestine was in fact betrayed in the hour of greatest need for European Jewry. This is a serious stain on the British record, which until then had many positive sides."
Jerusalem Centre for Public Affairs
You really are totally unaware of the picture of
thea right-wing moron you are painting of yourself - which makes me delighted to have implicated both of you in all this.
Any word on Labour Party Antisemitism yet (rhetorical question again)
Goosestep on
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Aug 16 - 08:10 PM

"Eleanor Rathbone
Feminist Eleanor Rathbone, elected to parliament as an independent MP in 1929, had long campaigned against injustice. During the 1930s she was one of very few MPs, along with Churchill, who spoke out against the antisemitic policies of the Nazis. She was also violently against appeasement.
During the war, as news of the Holocaust was revealed, Rathbone demanded that the British government take action. During 1943, in answer to a lack of response from the British government she set up 'The National Committee for the Rescue from Nazi Terror'. Despite the organisation's campaigns the government refused to act to save the Jews of Europe.."
http://www.theholocaustexplained.org/ks4/how-did-the-world-respond/how-did-britain-respond/did-britain-do-enough-to-help-the-jews/#.V65g4fkrLIV

"A "massively-detailed" but "little read" study of Britain's wartime intelligence published in 1981, British Intelligence in the Second World War, strongly bolsters the notion that the British did not associate what appeared to be random shootings of Jews with a policy of mass murder. In fact, from 1942 on there were no references in the SS and Police decrypts to gassing. Underscoring a seeming disbelief in the reports, mention of German concentration camps in any connection became increasingly scant as the war progressed. The British did, however, "carefully log" the return of prisoners -- presumably from work details -- to Auschwitz, Buchenwald, Dachau and seven other camps.22"
A logic of disbelief

Reluctance to accept Holocaust refugees
Thanks for the opportunity to put this up, by the way
Do you want any more?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Teribus
Date: 13 Aug 16 - 01:52 AM

Well Raggy think what you like, but as far as debate goes, on any thread where you have attempted to challenge what I have stated this "uneducated" man has run circles round you time and time again.

Raggytash - 12 Aug 16 - 04:56 PM - example of your deliberate tactic of wilfully misunderstanding what has been said or meant. By Irish Republicans Keith A was obviously referring to the militant IRA membership. Now Raggy as you appear to put your opinions forward and present yourself as a keen "expert" who is knowledgeable on all matters related to Irish History, perhaps you can tell us all when it was that being a member of the IRA was illegal in Ireland and then tell us when it became an offence in the United Kingdom (The date for the latter will astonish you). Eamon de Valera was one of the prime movers when it came to "creating" the IRA yet in the 1930s he executed them, interned them without trial, and on the occasions were IRA members were tried they were tried before non-Jury courts. Militant Irish Republicans had very little influence in Ireland in the run up to, and during, the Second World War because the Irish Government of the time deliberately and rigourously suppressed them as their activities if left unchecked could have compromised Irish neutrality and dragged Ireland into the war and any prospect of that absolutely terrified de Valera.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Teribus
Date: 13 Aug 16 - 02:30 AM

Jim Carroll - 12 Aug 16 - 07:43 PM

"It was an oberheard conversion if you read what was written.
I also said it might have been aaan apocryphal story,"

Point is though Jom - you believe it.

But there again you are prone to believing fairy-stories especially if they are Anglophobic in nature. "Raised on songs and stories" eh? I prefer logical, reasoned and substantiated fact and actual history.

I see your Tommy Kenny story has changed yet again, now you got the myth about summary executions of British soldiers in their trenches by special squads of military policemen from "reading" his diaries, before you heard them directly from the man himself while you were recording him relate his experiences.

Jim Carroll - 12 Aug 16 - 08:10 PM - A couple of points about this contribution of yours Jom:

1: How exactly was Great Britain going to go about saving the Jews of Europe in 1943?

2: Your "cut-n-paste" why did you not put that in the context it was presented in the article you linked to? You forgot the bit about the massive amount of information and intelligence being gathered by British Intelligence via ENIGMA - "In fact, from 1942 on there were no references in the SS and Police decrypts to gassing. Underscoring a seeming disbelief in the reports, mention of German concentration camps in any connection became increasingly scant as the war progressed."

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Raggytash
Date: 13 Aug 16 - 04:03 AM

The professor said republicans, not the IRA. The republicans were many and varied and even he should know that.

You can dissemble and prevaricate as much as you wish, as is your want, in your vain attempts to defend the indefensible.

I will remind you of what he typed because it is brilliant

"The Irish Republicans had no influence on the Irish people"

Classic.