BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jul 16 - 03:46 PM

A stupid post, full of denial, content-free, unsupportable assertions, just a smear. Nice one, Keith.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Teribus
Date: 26 Jul 16 - 05:41 PM

Steve Shaw - 26 Jul 16 - 03:46 PM

Now for someone who advises people to read through the thread Shaw then that post of yours referred to above is probably the daftest thing you've ever written - and believe me that takes a bit of doing.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jul 16 - 05:54 PM

Tell me why.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Raggytash
Date: 26 Jul 16 - 07:18 PM

Daftest HA !

Which coast of Ireland on?

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Raggytash
Date: 26 Jul 16 - 07:19 PM

Bloody Computers !!!

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jul 16 - 07:26 PM

Thank God it's you, Raggytash, and not 'im. I would have had to talk to him to tell him what a twit he is, just when I need to get to bed. Nighty-night, and don't let the definition-twisting delusionals bite!

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Teribus
Date: 27 Jul 16 - 02:31 AM

Steve Shaw - 26 Jul 16 - 02:27 PM

"The Labour Party has not found her or anyone else guilty of antisemitism."

Really?? Opening sentence in the "Conclusions" Section of the Chakrabarti Report:

"This Inquiry was triggered by a series of unhappy incidents which did no credit to the Labour Party."

Note "a series of unhappy incidents" NOT "allegations of a series of unhappy incidents" there is no attempt at all in the report to minimise them as you have done Shaw.

Key recommendation No.1 in the Report:

1. Epithets such as "Paki", "Zio" and others should have no place in Labour Party discourse going forward.

Care to enlighten us as to what a "Zio" would be Shaw? A Zionist perhaps?

Key recommendation No.4 in the Report:

4. Labour members should resist the use of Hitler, Nazi and Holocaust metaphors, distortions and comparisons in debates about Israel-Palestine in particular.

Care to also explain why Cllr Allan Parry NEC came out with this statement then:

"The NEC are appalled by recent cases of antisemitic abuse. Antisemitism has no place in the Labour Party and is contrary to everything we stand for. Jeremy introduced a new code of conduct for the party, which states:

"The Labour Party is an anti-racist party, committed to combating and campaigning against all forms of racism…. Labour will not tolerate racism in any form inside or outside the party….Any behaviour or use of language which targets or intimidates members of ethnic or religious communities or incites racism, including anti-Semitism…or undermines Labour's ability to campaign against any form of racism, is unacceptable".

Within his definition of anti-racist your Party Leader includes anti-Semitism, you seem to want to exclude it reading what you have posted.

"The NEC are appalled by recent cases of antisemitic abuse. Antisemitism has no place in the Labour Party and is contrary to everything we stand for."

Now for them to have been appalled by those recent cases then there had to have been substance to them. No mention at all there of "allegations of anti-Semitic abuse". That two investigations have been undertaken and two reports written detailing recommendations and actions to be taken would lend one to believe that Labour's NEC did view it as a serious issue and they did deal with it seriously - "serious issue" and "an issue being dealt with seriously" are not mutually exclusive terms, don't pretend that they are.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Jul 16 - 03:16 AM

"Start a thread then Jim. This on is about UK Labour Party."
Never agaon tell anyone here what to say or where to say it on this forum or I shall ask that you be removed.
It is somewhat gratifying to see you wriggle and plead that one of your favourite atrocity committers not be discussed on this forum - dream on.
As far as I am concerned, it is reasonable to surmise that the accusations of Antisemitism against one of the leading political parties in Britain has emanated from the propaganda to defend Israel from the BOYCOTT ISRAEL CAMPAIGN
The enquiry into Antisemitism reached the conclusion that tyhere was




Chakrabarti inquiry: Labour not overrun by anti-Semitism

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Jul 16 - 03:19 AM

Very amusing, Teribus. Absolutely nothing that we haven't done to death already. As I said to Keith, show me a senior Labour official who has stated that any named individual has been found guilty of antisemitism. Whilst I'd love to keep you off the streets all day while you search, instead I'll do you a favour and save your time. There isn't one. As I said to Keith, give me a clear-cut example, not a whole bunch of interpretable remarks about " serious issues" and "appalled by." In a nutshell, almost all cases of loose talk (which I don't defend in the least - the perpetrators are bloody idiots) have been sideswipes at Israel as a nation or at the Israeli regime, not at Jews because they are Jews. With your alleged penchant for accuracy, I'd have thought that you at least would have recognised that, but no, you would much rather stick with the sleazy cabal of ideologues you've signed up with.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Teribus
Date: 27 Jul 16 - 04:11 AM

When examining itself Shaw the "Left" don't do "blame" - their mantra after all is that it is - "Always someone else's fault" - which is why they say that there has never been a "truly socialist" government - because to some extent or other they have all failed to deliver.

Keith A's quotes from Naz Shah about her "anti-Semitic" comments, that you said you acknowledged - don't they count Steve?

As for searching through your posts? Naw not today got too much planned and too busy enjoying myself.

One for Raggy to ponder though on "Palestine" and "Palestinians" both of which were "invented" by Yasser Arafat in the early 1970s when he lost his "open cheque" backing from the former front-line Arab States. If what your pal Shaw says about references to Israel including both Arab, non-Jewish and Jewish citizens, then obviously any reference to "Palestine" and "Palestinians" must include everyone who lives there the Jews of "Palestine" as well as the Arabs and non-Arabs. Best show me a map of this Palestine of yours Raggy, preferably one from the PA, Hamas or Hezbollah that shows clearly these two-states, Israel and Palestine, that form this two-state solution they say they are "fighting" for.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Jul 16 - 04:19 AM

The Labour Party has carried out two enquiries and has found there not to be a serious majoir problem and made a number of recommendations in order for there not to be a problem in the future - end of story.
The Tory Party has been accused of ISLAMOPHOBIA and RACISM - no action has been suggested, let alone acted upon.
We now have a FOREIGN SECRETARY who has been accused of racism.
Now who shall I vote for, let me see.....?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 Jul 16 - 04:51 AM

Jim,
It is somewhat gratifying to see you wriggle and plead that one of your favourite atrocity committers not be discussed on this forum

If you mean Israel, I was asking that it HAVE a thread.
Obviously a thread about the UK Labour Party is no place for it.
Do feel free to report me to anyone you like.

Chakrabarti inquiry: Labour not overrun by anti-Semitism

No-one ever claimed it was Jim, but she found that there was antisemitism and it had been ignored for years.

. As I said to Keith, show me a senior Labour official who has stated that any named individual has been found guilty of antisemitism.

I can't Steve, because they are so coy about naming names.
It has been unequivocally accepted though that these unnamed antisemites exist and needed to be reigned in.

Rag,
What was it Boris Johnson called African children ??? "Piccaninnies" wasn't it

That was many years ago when the word was not recognised as racists here.
See this thread, especially McGrath's contributions.thread.cfm?threadid=33069#438827

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 Jul 16 - 04:58 AM

Jim,

The Labour Party has carried out two enquiries and has found there not to be a serious majoir problem and made a number of recommendations in order for there not to be a problem in the future

If there was not a serious problem, enquiries would not be needed.
The NEC had acknowledged that it was a serious issue.
Chakrabarti found considerable antisemitism that had been ignored for years and made recommendations to deal with it.
What was the second enquiry Jim?

We now have a FOREIGN SECRETARY who has been accused of racism.
Accused by who and on what grounds Jim.
Your linked article gives no clue.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Raggytash
Date: 27 Jul 16 - 05:07 AM

Not recognised as racist, Piccaninnies ? !!!!!


What bloody planet are you on? That word was recognised as racist when I was a child over 50 years ago.

Yet another example of you trying to defend the indefensible, so no change there.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 Jul 16 - 05:21 AM

Rag, read the thread.
Your experience is very unusual or more likely your memory is wrong.

Daily Mirror 20 hours ago,
"Jeremy Corbyn is not about to shut down Momentum.
But he should.
What started as a movement to propel a quiet man to power has become a magnet for violent, unprincipled and self-aggrandising bullies.
They have damaged not only the reputation of Corbyn and forced him into contortions over his beliefs, but are killing the Labour Party."

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Jul 16 - 05:41 AM

"If there was not a serious problem, enquiries would not be needed."
All it takes is an accusation to be made for an enquiry to be needed - doesn't work for the Tory party apparently.
No serious racism or bigotry was uncovered -as I said, end of story.
"Accused by who"
Go look it up Keith - plenty of coverage, several examples given.
"If you mean Israel, I was asking that it HAVE a thread."
Pack this in Keith, you are becoming obsessive in your support of a terrorist state.
Stop trying to censor discussion - you've been warned about your tendency to do so on innumerable occasions.
Can we clear up this "right and left" garbage?
The Labour Party has been in the hands of the right wing for a long time now, Blair's "New Labour" was only the confirmation of what had been happening for decades.
It will be some time before Labour can ever be accused of being "Left" - the constitutional parties are indistinguishable one from another.
Antisemitm and racism have always been rge don#main of the right, while opposition to these, wherever it came from has always been branded as "Ledtie"
The German Right constructed and filled the death camps and the British Right supported them in doing so - The Daily Mail, The Duke of Wellington, the Right Club - all good Tory supporters.
The Left, alongside the Jews, the Gypsies and those considered physically and mentally unfit for society, went into the ovens - vctims of right-wing politics.
The B.N.P., National Front, Ukip are all right-wing organisations.
Given the fact that a large number of British people have declared themselves to be racist in thought and in deed, it is hardly surprising that a few bad apples have made their way into what was once, but o longer is a left wing Party
Racism, Antisemitism and many other forms of bigotry and intolerance are diseases of the right, not the left.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Raggytash
Date: 27 Jul 16 - 05:43 AM

Unusual my arse, you are trying yet again to defend the indefensible and trying yet again to cover for your own innate racism.

The fact that YOU don't recognise it speaks volumes.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Jul 16 - 06:15 AM

You don't make somebody accused of racism any more than you make somebody found guilty of facilitating the massacre of 3,500 unarmed refugees Prime Minister.
Doing so brands the government s concerned as supporting those crimes.
PICCANINNY
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 27 Jul 16 - 06:43 AM

the BOYCOTT ISRAEL CAMPAIGN

Is in itself an anti-semitic endeavour.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Jul 16 - 07:00 AM

"Is in itself an anti-semitic endeavour."
Israel is not the Jewish people and it is Antisemitic to suggest it is - by its own accepted definition
You are an Antisemite
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 Jul 16 - 10:59 AM

Rag,
Unusual my arse, you are trying yet again to defend the indefensible and trying yet again to cover for your own innate racism.

Ok, show me something that says the word was considered racists ten years ago never mind 50!
In the old thread there was no suggestion that it might be racist, just not PC.
McGrath said it was in common use with no negative connotations in his youth.

Jim,
Pack this in Keith, you are becoming obsessive in your support of a terrorist state.
Who describes Israel as such?
No single decent democracy.
Just the nasty regimes that hate Israel and all other liberal democracies.

Stop trying to censor discussion - you've been warned about your tendency to do so on innumerable occasions.

It is impossible for ordinary members to censor discussion, and I have never been warned about any such thing.
You are making shit up as usual Jim.

Moving on, do you agree with the Mirror on Momentum (violent, unprincipled and self-aggrandising bullies killing the Labour Party), or the 14 women MPs on misogyny and homophobia?
Did you miss those posts?

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Jul 16 - 11:29 AM

"Who describes Israel as such?"
Thought you didn't want to discuss Isreal (only in order to defend it, it seems)
Just about every human rights organisation who ever reported on it.
Victims of its terrorism.
Medical services tending the Victims
Journalist writing reports on the mass#acres.
Independent reports, such as that on Sabra/Shatila
Television documentaries
The list is endless
Can't speak for politicians
If it hadn't been for U.S. vetoes, they would have been tried for war crimes - but then again, the U.S. record on hman rights issues isnt one to recommend it.
Israel were so sure that they were innocent they called for the Court to be abolished.
"No single decent democracy."
You mean - politician don't you
You ought to be ashamed of yourself fdefemnding attrocities with such a pathetic excuse - tell me again about your Christianity!!
"violent, unprincipled and self-aggrandising bullies killing the Labour Party"
Anther stick eh - any evidence other than electiooneering in-fighting by the right.
YOU WON'T RESPOND TO THIS
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 Jul 16 - 12:52 PM

No informed decent government believes all that propaganda Jim.
No liberal democracy, just some of the world's nastier, undemocratic regimes who hate democracies like ors and Israel's.

Moving on, this thread is about the UK Labour Party.
Do you agree with the Daily Mirror on Momentum (violent, unprincipled and self-aggrandising bullies killing the Labour Party), or the 14 women MPs on misogyny and homophobia in the party?
Did you miss those posts?

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Jul 16 - 01:30 PM

"No informed decent government believes all that propaganda Jim."]
Then you are not ashamed of yourself - pathetic
"Moving on, this thread is about the UK Labour Party."
It is about what we widh it to be - you are as fascist as Israel with your bahaviour
"self-aggrandising bullies killing the Labour Party), "
I don't know until I see the evidence
Do you agree with Tory bullies killing members of their own party - or is it only alleged Labour bullying you care about?
Told you you wouldn't respond to it
TRY THIS
Jim Carroll
Will be back with more about the Israeli campaign against left politicians later

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 Jul 16 - 01:31 PM

Jim,
YOU WON'T RESPOND TO THIS

Yes I will.
BBC last May,
"However, Mr Osborne (Coroner)said he found "no connection" between Mr Johnson's complaint and CWF's decision to make him redundant.
Mr Johnson's father Ray said he believed Mr Clarke, who denied the bullying allegations, had "ruined" his son's career.
"We were unaware of, at the time, a victimisation campaign by Mr Clarke towards Elliott and other members of the Conservative Way Forward, which was getting steadily worse," he said.
Mr Johnson's allegations eventually sparked an investigation and the resignation of former party chairman Grant Shapps.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-36417699

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Jul 16 - 01:52 PM

Finding no connection doesn't meen there wa#sn't one, nor does it mean that bullyinhgg didn't take placce, which you haven't responded to - nor did you respond to the other examples of bullying - more to come.
The fact that it may not have caused this young man's death is not relevent to the fact that bullying takes place in the Tory Party
As I said, bullying is only important if it is alleged to be done by Labour people.
ISRAEL TARGETS BRITISH POLITICIANS
WITCH HUNT
NOTHING TO DO WITH ISRAEL MY ARSE
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Jul 16 - 02:08 PM

AND AGAIN
Israel's targetting British politicians seems to be common knowledge
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 27 Jul 16 - 02:54 PM

There you have it Keith, the Jews are the cause of anti-semitism in the Labour party.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 Jul 16 - 03:17 PM

The fact that it may not have caused this young man's death is not relevent to the fact that bullying takes place in the Tory Party

Yes, and it is despicable.
At least there was a prompt enquiry and the resignation of the party chairman.

No Labour resignations yet from any of their antisemites, bullies, misogynists and homophobes.

Moving on, do you agree with the Daily Mirror on Momentum (violent, unprincipled and self-aggrandising bullies killing the Labour Party), or with the 14 women MPs on misogyny and homophobia in the party?
Did you miss those posts?

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Jul 16 - 03:18 PM

"There you have it Keith, the Jews are the cause of anti-semitism in the Labour party."
That was as blatent an antisemitic statement as has ever been made on this forum - the rest of us think it is the Israeli propaganda machine
There was no major antisemitism found in the Labour Party , as hard as Keith tried.
Never mind eh?
A pair of Trolls - please don't start breeding.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 Jul 16 - 03:22 PM

Jim,
There was no major antisemitism found in the Labour Party , as hard as Keith tried.

Yes there was. Quite a lot. See the Chakrabarti report.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Raggytash
Date: 27 Jul 16 - 03:31 PM

" Ok, show me something that says the word was considered racists ten years ago never mind 50!"

When I was a child in the late 50's early 60's MY parents taught me it was wrong to label people as such. Not only MY parents but the parents of my friends and acquaintances. Not one of us would utter a word like that.

The mere fact that YOU don't recognise it as being racist 1, 2, 5, 10 or even 50 years ago, as I do, clearly demonstrates without a shadow of a doubt YOUR inbred racism.

People with your attitude are an absolute disgrace.

Describing you as a little Englander actually works in your a favour because it makes an "excuse" for you not being intelligent enough in your own right to know instinctively that referring to people as "piccaninnies " is utterly, totally and completely wrong.

I hope you sleep well tonight, but before you sleep say a prayer to your god and ask forgiveness for your ignorance.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 Jul 16 - 03:36 PM

Rag, so you can not produce anything to support your assertions, but I could.
You lose.

Jim, Labour List on Chakrabarti,
" On a day in which at least one major milestone in the fight against anti-Semitism in the Labour party was achieved the news has, instead, focussed on the mishandling and outrageous racism at the launch event.

Many outlets reported Jeremy Corbyn's apparent equation of Israel and ISIS. Any correlation between the two would be wrong and offensive. His office claim he was misquoted and to me, his language was clumsy but then Jeremy never was a great wordsmith. However he did state, for the first time quite explicitly, that there was certain behaviour that should not be welcome in the Labour party and that for example the word "Zio" was a racist epithet that has no place in our party. It was shameful that a Momentum activist, took the opportunity to launch into one of the oldest anti-Semitic tropes as part of an attack on Ruth Smeeth. The unwelcoming environment for Jews remains and the press had the perfect example of just how it plays out."

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Jul 16 - 05:13 PM

Labour List are not the Labour Party. It is an entirely independent organisation. They are no more the Labour Party than AIPAC are Israel. So you can bloody cut that out for a start, you charlatan. Jesus, you are so dishonest. Good job some of us check you out every now and then. You are a very easy man to catch out, and do you know why that is? Because you think we're all so bloody thick that we'll take all your "authoritative" pronouncements on board without demur. Well you can think again.

I started working in multi-ethnic schools in East London in 1973. I can fearlessly assure you that "piccaninny" was a word even then that you would absolutely never use. My wife started work in a junior school in Stepney a year later. I've just checked with her. She was horrified at the suggestion that the word was ever even remotely acceptable even that long ago. It was not. The fact that you think it was marks you out as a racist.

I'm going to ask you again. Name one Labour member who was explicitly found guilty of antisemitism. I want something solid and not some waffly statements you've cherrypicked that are capable of infinite interpretation. And don't give me that sour-grapes "they would say that anyway" crap. The Labour Party have been searingly open and honest in dealing with this in the face of hostile onslaughts from sanctimonious supporters of the Israeli regime in the Tory party, the Labour right and hypocritical bunches of media racists. Which is a damn sight more than can be said about the sleazy organisations that you support, which deal with uncomfortable revelations via a massive spin machine. Christ, they didn't half learn a lot from Blair.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Jul 16 - 05:41 PM

And as for this load of tripe:

"Jim,
'There was no major antisemitism found in the Labour Party , as hard as Keith tried.'

Yes there was. Quite a lot. See the Chakrabarti report."

Then quote the bits of the report that refer to major antisemitism. You can't, because there aren't any. Tell us who Shami said was antisemitic. You can't, because she didn't. The best you can do is to cast aspersions on her integrity. Well I don't always agree with her stances, but when it comes to integrity, honesty and straightforwardness she can knock any of the right-wing wankers who you support into a cocked hat. Go on, smear. I dare you.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 27 Jul 16 - 05:41 PM

The term has been considered offensive in the US at least since 1939 according to this letter from Thurgood Marshall to Whitman's candy company:


April 5, 1939

Dear Gentlemen:

A member of our Association has sent to us a package which had contained peppermint candy prepared by your company. The trade name on this package is "Whitman's Pickaninny Peppermints—Chocolate Covered."

On behalf of the members of this Association, we protest the use of the term "pickaninny" as applied to young Negro children whose pictures appear on your package. This term is extremely distasteful to Negroes.

We are calling this matter to your attention in the hope that you will discontinue the use of this term on packages of candy manufactured and distributed by you. We have not taken this matter up with our branches as yet, pending a reply from you. We will therefore appreciate an early reply.

Very truly yours,

Thurgood Marshall

Whitman's Pickaninny Peppermints—Chocolate Covered

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Jul 16 - 05:47 PM

Bloody hell, Keith. Stuffed by bobad. Whatever next? Teribus joining the SWP? 😂😂😂

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 27 Jul 16 - 06:05 PM

Notice I said in the US. I have no knowledge of how this term was considered in the UK.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Jul 16 - 06:40 PM

Well, as we allowed black people to sit on our buses long before you did, why would you suppose that we were behind you? 😂

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 27 Jul 16 - 07:18 PM

Segregation on public transport and word usage are two separate issues. I'm not an American but as far as I know African Americans used public transport but in some jurisdictions seating was segregated.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Teribus
Date: 27 Jul 16 - 07:49 PM

Raggytash - 27 Jul 16 - 03:31 PM

"When I was a child in the late 50's early 60's MY parents taught me it was wrong to label people as such. Not only MY parents but the parents of my friends and acquaintances. Not one of us would utter a word like that."

Then they all sat down to watch "The Black and White Minstrel Show" which ran from 1958 until 1978. Described as light entertainment it was considered extremely popular - even won prizes at Montreux.

"'There was no major antisemitism found in the Labour Party"

I think the report concluded that there was no institutionalised anti-Semitism in the Labour Party - that does under no circumstances means that anti-Semitism did not exist - far too many recommendations related to actions that have to be taken to eradicate the practice for it not to exist. Someone chirped up about transparency - If there was indeed real transparency then names would have been named, the fact that they weren't with any other political party or organisation the "usual suspects" would be screaming "whitewash" and "cover-up" from the roof-tops.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Jul 16 - 08:19 PM

Oh, give over, Woodcock. I thought for a minute there you were getting reasonable. There was a damn sight more naked transparency than you'd get with any of your tawdry crowd. I love it that we do stuff straight down the line sans the spin that you lot learned fom the despicable Blair. But all you do is sit back and allow the bloody Telegraph and the Express and the Rothermere fascists and the Murdoch wankers lead you by the nose. Underneath it all you know that Keith is up shit creek without a paddle. We don't expect you to ditch your pride and admit that out loud, but you're clever enough to extricate yourself from his ignorant bilge without losing face. We might even end up loving you. Shit.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Teribus
Date: 28 Jul 16 - 02:18 AM

Getting rattled Shaw? You would not know reasonable if it jumped up and bit you, it is not a trait you deal in.

IF the two investigations carried out had been transparent then names would have been named - but no it was decided that it did not matter a damn who said what in the past it would not mean expulsion and exclusion for life as "People change their minds" {The phrase actually used in the Report} - As it stands now there are collectively 27 recommendations that have to be addressed - sounds pretty serious to me (Not just something being taken seriously). A major damage control exercise and one of the worst kinds of "cover-up" you can have as it leaves the reality that there are anti-Semitic racists in the Party whose identities are known to the NEC but not to anyone else - kinda saps respect and trust of the voter.

Any comment on the recent polls that show that one-third of Labour voters would prefer to see Theresa May as Prime Minister than vote for Corbyn? Now that is some leader that you've got there, just what the "Party" needs, I say "Party" because precisely through this man's indomitable leadership he has managed single-handedly to destroy the main opposition party at Westminster to create three separate entities "Momentum" (His own personal cadre), the Parliamentary Labour Party who represent the Voters who voted for them NOT those who selected them, and finally the voters themselves, the 9.5 million people who voted for Labour. I have not mentioned the 551,000 signed up members of the Labour Party as that particular organisation has finally been taken over by, as Keith A says:

"violent, unprincipled and self-aggrandising bullies killing the Labour Party".

No bloody wonder you support and defend them Shaw - as described above you'd fit in with them seamlessly, as effortlessly as a duck takes to water.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Raggytash
Date: 28 Jul 16 - 03:07 AM

I care not about "winning" or "losing" professor, try reading IF by Rudyard Kipling "if you can meet with triumph and disaster and treat those imposters just the same"

What we have had reinforced is YOUR blatant RACISM.

Even Bobad acknowledges it was unacceptable in 1930's America, and here are you trying to justify it in 21st Century Britain.

Not that I'm at all surprised by the fact you are a racist.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Jul 16 - 04:35 AM

Steve<

Labour List are not the Labour Party. It is an entirely independent organisation.

Yes it is. It is independent but it is written by Labour Party people for Labour Party people.
"LabourList is the leading place for news, views and debate about the centre left. Its readers and contributors come from across the labour movement and range from MPs and peers to grassroots activists.
We are supportive of but independent of the Labour Party. "

I'm going to ask you again. Name one Labour member who was explicitly found guilty of antisemitisism.

Labour won't tell us their names, but they are quite clear that they exist.
Naz Shah self confessed, and Labour List described Marc Wadsworth's outburst as "one of the oldest anti-Semitic tropes."
Tell us who Shami said was antisemitic. You can't, because she didn't.
Chakrabarti declined to name any of the guilty she referred to. (Peerage on its way?)
They exist though, whatever there names are.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Jul 16 - 04:52 AM

Rag,
What we have had reinforced is YOUR blatant RACISM.
Nasty lie. There is no racism from me, never has been and never will be.

Even Bobad acknowledges it was unacceptable in 1930's America, and here are you trying to justify it in 21st Century Britain.

So do I.
It was made very clear in that old Mudcat thread I linked to.
It was also made very clear that in UK it was becoming un-PC but had never been considered racist.

Subject: RE: Is 'Piccaninnies' Non-PC ?
From: McGrath of Harlow - PM
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 06:57 PM

My dictionary says it's probably from a spanish woerd "pequeno", meaning a small child.
When I was growing up and where I was growing up, it was a word that might be used for any toddler.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Jul 16 - 05:01 AM

Page 1 of the Chakrabarti report,
"there is too much clear evidence (going back some years) of minority hateful or ignorant attitudes and
behaviours festering within a sometimes bitter incivility of discourse.
(Note, the subject is antisemitism, so that is what is being referred to )This has no place in a modern
democratic socialist party that puts equality, inclusion and human rights at its heart. Moreover, I have
heard too many Jewish voices express concern that antisemitism has not been taken seriously enough
in the Labour Party and broader Left for some years.
An occasionally toxic atmosphere is in danger of shutting down free speech within the Party rather
than facilitating it, and is understandably utilised by its opponents."

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Raggytash
Date: 28 Jul 16 - 05:08 AM

You can dissemble and deny as much as you want professor, it is all written down here for all to see. The fact remains that you are a racist.

End of story.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Jul 16 - 05:45 AM

It has been found that there is no major problem of Antisemitism in the Labour Party - two enquires both came to the same conclusion.
As it tuened out, the accusations were based on right wingers attempting to unseat Corbyn using Israeli supporters - Israel's involvement in all this is now obvious - Keith
]s two star witnesses who claimed there was a serious pronlem were both activists in the Israeli propaganda campaign.
It was treated seriously because it was a serious issue to be accused of such
Labour carried out a prompt enquiry when the accusations were made; when similar accusations were made about Islamophobia in the Tory Party, nothing was done - which of the two parties is most open in these matters (no prizes, I'm afraid).
Bobad, Teribus and Keith - speaks fro itself - three trolls sharing the same bridge.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Jul 16 - 05:45 AM

Saying it does not make it so Rag.
You just resort to personal attack because you have nothing else.
It is as good as a white flag.

There is no racism from me, and never has been.
That is why you can not quote a single thing.
Or will you now?