BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 30 May 16 - 02:16 PM

ok....ok... Keith...

.. if I can keep a straight face for long enough.....


"From: punkfolkrocker - PM
Date: 29 May 16 - 09:40 AM

This is Keith's thread about the UK Labour Party,.. not.. and repeat... not.. about Israel,
as he rightfully reminds us from time to time whenever he starts getting a bit uncomfortable.....".... 😂

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 May 16 - 02:19 PM

"It is about Labour's problem with anti-semitism."
If you and Bobad bring up pro-Israeli activists to back your case, it's exactly about Israel.
It dos't matter what he is talking about - he is part of the Israeli propaganda team which is now targeting the Labour Party
You can't rule as inadvisable what you use yourself (I say "can't" advisedly - you always do when you find yourself in a corner.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 30 May 16 - 02:41 PM

With friends like those...

At least some of us don't have friends in political parties rife with antisemites. 😂

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 May 16 - 02:50 PM

Only antisemites now is it, bobad? Not Jew haters any more? Should we take that as progress? By the way, can you give me a list of Labour Party antisemites? As the party is "rife" with them, fifteen or twenty names will do for starters. As a member myself, I shall definitely take it up with them. And, like Andy Burnham, I would tear up my membership card if I find out that the party is riddled. Your information could be of value! 😂

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 May 16 - 02:52 PM

"At least some of us don't have friends in political parties rife with antisemites"
A least we aren't Antisemites who accuse the Jewish people of Israeli crimes.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 30 May 16 - 02:56 PM

Lovely sunny bank holiday, and bob 'n' keith are on hilarious form...

Doubt if I'll find anything more amusing on TV.... 😄

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 30 May 16 - 05:32 PM

Another hater liberated from ignorance:

U.K. Labour MP Naz Shah: I Was Ignorant About Judaism

In first public appearance at Jewish venue since suspension from party over anti-Semitic remarks, Lawmaker visits Leeds synagogue, vows to talk to fellow Muslims about anti-Semitism.
Haaretz

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 May 16 - 05:56 PM

Both Haaretz and you are wrong (what's new?). Naz Shah, foolishly, suggested that Israel be relocated. She did not suggest that just Jews should be relocated. Now that WOULD have been antisemitic. But the unassailable fact that you and Haaretz are conveniently ignoring is that Israel is about one-quarter Arab. In effect, she was also suggesting that a couple of million Arabs also be relocated, as well as the Jewish contingent. So where does that leave us? Hmmm...

You see, you and Keith just LOVE those rejected EUMC criteria, because they allow you to call critics of Israel antisemitic. You dearly want Israel to be protected from any criticism. So we end up with a situation in which an admittedly rather foolish person making a remark that was about the state of Israel, no mention of Jews, can be called antisemitic. Well the rest of us will just continue to enjoy the pair of you making fools of yourselves in your ignorance and prejudice.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 30 May 16 - 06:29 PM

suggested that Israel be relocated. She did not suggest that just Jews should be relocated.

Ah, ha, ha....what are you smoking? I'd like me some of that shit man!

Just like your man Galloway who declared Bradford an "Israel free zone". Like Israel could be geographically excised and moved to Bradford. You damn well know he meant Jew free zone just as Shah meant the same. Your feigned ignorance convinces no one but, just as there was for your fellow party member, there is a path out of ignorance for you too. A journey of a thousand miles begins with the first step.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 30 May 16 - 07:00 PM

Sorry, I'm only just waking up after sleeping off dinner..

..eh ? .. what.. a thousand mile walk..??
.. what.. from UK to Israel...???


...ermmmm.. our feet might get very wet as soon as we step off at Dover...????? 😕

But I guess that didn't bother old man Moses back in them distant make believe bible days...

Divine intervention.. and presumably very sturdy sandals...

Still not woken up properly... what was the point...?????????


[Btw.. on the subject of jews..
.. I unearthed a photo on the internet of the Jewish Grandfather I have never known..
approx in his 70s in the 1970s
I showed it to my mum, she was quite touched to see her real dad's face again all these years later...


I need a younger photo to tell how much I might look like him]

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 May 16 - 07:09 PM

Galloway is not "my man" and never has been. Naz Shah did not mention Jews. She mentioned Israel, which is one quarter Arab and three-quarters Jewish. Her sentiment was that the state of Israel has been a confounded nuisance in the Middle East for decades, and she made a whimsical suggestion that it could be moved to its puppet, the USA. Whimsical means not serious, something that can't come about, pie in the sky. It was a bloody idiotic thing to say, a divisive remark made with no regard as to outcome. But it was not antisemitic because she referred to the state of Israel, not to Jews. I don't expect you and Keith to see the difference. You don't want there to be a difference, because you want a definition of antisemitism that is so broad that it disallows any criticism whatsoever of the state of Israel. Not once in any post of yours, either as bobad or as that dishonest, trolling, cowardly anonymous Guest, have you ever accepted the slightest criticism of Israeli actions. If I were to mention that an Israeli soldier shot dead a Palestinian child, you'd manage to turn it round and somehow blame Hamas.You'd tell us that Hamas murdered the child. That's what you told us told us when the IDF were shelling schools in Gaza. That's how rotten to the core you are, utterly twisted and bitter, and certainly no friend of the Israeli people, ironically (though, naturally, you don't see the irony). Most Israelis would hate to have people like you and Keith on their side. All you do is put them in harm's way.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 30 May 16 - 07:30 PM

"I'd walk a million miles for one of your smiles..."

Asa Yoelson - a man with a very complex sense of cultural identity...

.. complicated unruly old world innit..not so easy to pin down with one dimensional authoritarian legalistic definitions..... 😜

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 31 May 16 - 04:37 AM

Steve,
You see, you and Keith just LOVE those rejected EUMC criteria,

You mean the ones that are still on the EU website after eleven years?
Obviously some people reject them, but there they still are.

And this really is not about Israel.
You people are obsessed.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 May 16 - 05:38 AM

Well those unratified criteria are full of references to Israel, and you're obsessed with bringing them back from the dead (in order to save face, of course). As you've now mentioned them umpteen times yourself, mostly trying to tell us lies about them, I'd say that makes you a pot calling a kettle black when you accuse "us people" of being obsessed with Israel. Incidentally, as you want such a sweeping definition of antisemitism, you know, the one that attempts to prevent valid criticism of Israel, how can this possibly NOT be about Israel!

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 31 May 16 - 06:24 AM

and you're obsessed with bringing them back from the dead

Not dead Steve.
Still there.
Still current and adopted even beyond the EU.
Some individuals may have rejected them for their own reasons and agendas, but here they are upheld by the European Parliament Working Group On Anti-Semitism .
http://www.antisem.eu/projects/eumc-working-definition-of-antisemitism/

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 31 May 16 - 08:34 AM

For months now, week by week, examples have been emerging of cut and dried anti-Semitism – most dressed up, oh so cleverly, as anti-Zionism, but much not even bothering to hide it. And the Labour leader's response to the criticism that he is soft on anti-Semitism and that it's his political mindset that has fuelled its rise is not to get hard on anti-Semitism. It's to get irritated.

This is not some academic exercise or interesting political theory. This is reality – the reality that the Labour Party is now run by a cadre for whom anti-Semitism really is ok, so long as it is dressed up as anti-Zionism. Because Zionism is the enemy of all good people.

Stephen Pollard: The Left's hatred of Jews chills me to the bone

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 May 16 - 09:06 AM

Yes, bobad, you "forgot" to mention that Pollard is the editor of the Jewish Chronicle. And a madman to boot. I should think that even Keith would struggle to take him on board. You're pretty desperate, aren't you? 😂😂😂

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 31 May 16 - 09:13 AM

Stephen Pollard is an exremist right wing politician who adopts an "Antisemites-under-the-bed' approach to Israel, including attacks on the press who, he claims 'does not defend Israel enough.
He is the editor of The Jewish Chronicle which is " "a firm and influential champion of Zionism"
When the paper recieved compaints about it carrying an advert for Gaza Relief Aid, it stated that it was a staunch supporter of Operation Protective Edge
"Pollard proceeds to accuse 'many liberals and others on the European left' of 'making common cause with radical Islam and then brazenly and bizarrely denying both the existence of that alliance and in fact the existence of any Islamist threat whatever'.[8] He acknowledges that he finds "Surrender" 'at times, hard going', but this is only in part 'because of the level of detail Bawer offers in support of his argument' and because 'Bawer is unquestionably correct, and that fact is quite simply ­terrifying'.[9]"
On his blog, Pollard disparages both the NHS[10] and the Royal Mail[11], and speaks approvingly of private alternatives. After accusing the Guardian and other British critics of ignorance about the US healthcare system, Pollard writes:
The plain fact is that if you have a serious disease or need long term care, if you have the right coverage you are so much better off being treated in the US that the NHS is not even comparable.
Stephen Pollard
Once again, the opinions of an extreme right-wing, pro Israeli activist is being used to show that the Labour Party is riddled with Anti-Semites.
No wonder this pair want to make Israel a no-go area in this discussion
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 May 16 - 09:15 AM

Once and for all, Keith, the criteria are NOT official EU policy. The working group is a sort of EU quango and does not formulate EU official policy. That's their website, not the "EU website," which, oddly (or not), you have so far failed to invoke. The amusing thing is that you know all this and are carrying it on just to save your face. As an aside, just look at the "advisory bodies" of your quango. 😂

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 31 May 16 - 09:15 AM

... and it's The Telegraph... 🙄

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 31 May 16 - 09:26 AM

.. and I've just googled the wiki for Pollard...

Oh dear.. on this superficial summary, he does sound a bit of a blatant hostile Labour Party hating right wing arsehole.... 😠

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 May 16 - 10:08 AM

He's barking. You can bet your life that anyone bobad invokes will be as mad as a box of frogs, like that military nutter mysogynist he dug up the other day. Put it down to the mark of desperation. The Telegraph was the mild bit! 😂

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 31 May 16 - 12:39 PM

Stephen Pollard is an exremist right wing politician who adopts an "Antisemites-under-the-bed'

Ok, so what do left wing Jews say?

"The Jewish Labour Movement (JLM), a formal affiliate, hit out after Jackie Walker was reinstated to the party after saying Jews were the "chief financiers of the slave trade".

The JLM told PoliticsHome: "Walker repeated an anti-Semitic slur. She showed no contrition.

Fresh Labour anti-Semitism row after leading activist re-instated to party
Labour warned anti-Semitism probe must not be 'whitewash'
"The outcome of this process shows, once again, that the political rhetoric of zero tolerance on anti-Semitism is not matched by action. This is why we are proposing changes to party rules."

The group is seeking to change Labour's rules to make it easier to expel and ban members for life if they are found guilty of anti-Semitism."
https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/news/75537/exclusive-jewish-labour-movement-hits-out-over

And the Israeli Labour Party,

"Jeremy Corbyn faced fresh criticism over his handling of antisemitism allegations after Labour's sister party in Israel said it had had no reply to a letter its leader sent to him a month ago expressing dismay and inviting him to Jerusalem to see the Yad Vashem Holocaust museum.

Labour MPs said they were shocked that no response had apparently been sent and added that it was further evidence of the party leadership's slow and inadequate response to the crisis."
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/28/jeremy-corbyn-failed-reply-israel-left-antisemitism-ken-livingstone

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 May 16 - 01:12 PM

The Israeli Labor Party is not a left-wing party. It is a Zionist organisation that has been in bed with all manner of allies out of expedience, including Likud. It holds strongly to the notion of the Jewish state and is firmly in bed with the US, revelling in the massive military subsidy that the US provides. "Sister party" is pushing it. Its allies in the UK Labour Party are the Labour Friends Of Israel, not the worst of similar bunches but still a powerful pro-Israel lobby group. If you want the views of real leftie Jews, look elsewhere. The Jewish Labour Movement has the following stated aim:

"We view Zionism as the national liberation movement of the Jewish people. Its aim is to promote "a secure, progressive, just and successful State of Israel" and believe in a two state solution."

Well that isn't exactly my idea of a left-wing movement. Lefties are Internationalists. I see no mention of Israeli Arabs, or the Palestinians, in those aims, and the mention of the now-impossible two-state solution, thanks to land thefts and settlement building, is just a piece of cynical lip-service.

And I note that you continue to adhere to the dishonest partial quoting of what Jackie Walker said. I've already explained to you why it was no slur and not antisemitic.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 31 May 16 - 03:12 PM

Labour, under Corbyn, has lost its moral compass

Corbyn worked as a presenter for Iranian state television. In other words, he was a willing propagandist of a regime that executes homosexuals, imprisons trade unionists and persecutes religious and ethnic minorities. This would have once disqualified him from membership of 'the Left'. Now he represents the 'moral' Left.

Corbyn makes excuses for the avowedly orthodox- conservative, privately kleptomaniac and demonstrably imperialist Putin regime Once support for Putin's combination of faith, fraud and force would have been anathema to the left. Now it is the 'moral' left.

Corbyn defends the most grotesque anti-Semites: fantasists, who believed Jews eat Christian children, and were the diabolical power behind 9/11, the slave trade and every other catastrophe   Once this attempt to destroy Labour's reputation for anti-fascism and anti-racism would have disqualified Corbyn from the left. Now eminent Oxbridge leftists hail such 'moral clarity' as the future of the left.

If it is, it is not a future any moral person should want any part of, however much money they earn.

Nick Cohen:The Spectator

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 May 16 - 03:30 PM

If you haven't already done so, DONT CLICK ON BOBAD'S LINK. It's full of malware. The bloke who does that and who has operated secretly under two identities here has the bloody cheek to burble on about anyone else's "moral compass." Nice.

Suffice to say that Nick Cohen is yet another typical bobad ally. Barking mad, doesn't know left from right, hears about some "leftie" or other saying something disagreeable then tars anyone left of Attila The Hun with the same brush. Daft.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 31 May 16 - 04:49 PM

The Left. vs. Israel

Since the creation of Israel, Palestinians, Arabs, and Muslims have been the mainstay of anti-Zionism, with the Left, from the Soviet Union to professors of literature, their auxiliary. But this might be in process of change: as Muslims slowly, grudgingly, and unevenly come to accept the Jewish state as a reality, the Left is becoming increasingly vociferous and obsessive in its rejection of Israel.

Daniel Pipes: Middle East Forum

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 31 May 16 - 04:53 PM

DONT CLICK ON BOBAD'S LINK. It's full of malware.

No malware whatsoever - methinks Shaw is afraid is afraid of truth.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 May 16 - 05:14 PM

As soon as I clicked on the link I got an ad trying to sell me an iPhone. There was no way of getting rid of it from the screen except by turning off the iPad. And that's the truth. Yiu know damn well I follow your links - it's so much fun telling you what a bunch of complete, brainless twats you call up in your defence. 😂😂😂

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 May 16 - 05:25 PM

Ah yes, Daniel Pipes, the arch-Islamophobe whose zany notions alienate even his potential pro-Israel allies. The wiki article on him makes for an entertaining and highly amusing read. Keep 'em coming, bobad! Oh no, there goes my corset again. Is the corset shop still open? 😅😅😅

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 31 May 16 - 06:42 PM

Ha, ha I'm loving it......Pavlov was right.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 31 May 16 - 07:06 PM

the arch-Islamophobe

To the regressive left anyone who opposes radical Islamists is an Islamophobe (whatever that is). You give yourself away. Tell me, are Jeremy's friends your friends too?

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 31 May 16 - 08:10 PM

bobad - If I was obsessed with proving that dogs were dangerous and hated humans;
and persistently provided links to anti-dog articles that were all so obviously written by fanatical extremist cat lovers...

You might start thinking that I was not exactly objective, reliable, or sensible.... 🐶 🐱

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 May 16 - 08:12 PM

Really, I seem to recall that he referred to Muslims as brown people with unhygienic habits, etc. It's you giving yourself away by calling upon witnesses such as Daniel Pipes, who's clearly a lunatic of the first order. Do tell us: do you regard Muslims/Arabs as brown people with inconveniently unhygienic habits? Daniel does! 😂😂😂

Just don't think for one second that you can, just like Keith thinks he can, bring your illiberal, prejudiced and agenda-laden nonsense here and expect it to stay unchallenged. You've been called out big-time in the last couple of days for quoting people who couldn't argue their way out of a paper bag if put alongside genuine and fair-minded people who are actually acquainted with the facts. And, I must say, in a weird way I have to admire your utter shamelessness in putting yourself up as an unapologetic and sycophantic spokesman for Israel when you are are actually the most dishonest person who's still allowed to post on this forum. Jesus, if Bibi ever reads this I reckon he'd send you a dog turd in the post to shut you up. You're certainly a massive embarrassment to the nation you claim to support.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 31 May 16 - 08:30 PM

Here`s a lob for you, have at 'er

Yet, there are some Labour leaders who see the problem, and want the party to take more drastic and immediate action (via BBC):

    Lord Levy told BBC Newsnight he believed anti-Semitism existed across the political divide, but it seemed "more prominent" within Labour.

    It follows the party's decision to suspend MP Naz Shah from the party over comments about Israel on social media, pending an investigation.

    […]

    Lord Levy, who was Tony Blair's envoy and chief fundraiser, told the BBC her comments displayed "ignorance", and he was left "scratching his head with despair as to how people like this can enter our parliament with such a lack of knowledge, discretion and sensitivity".

    His comments were echoed by cross-bench peer Baroness Neuberger, who claimed Labour's problem of anti-Semitism was "attached to Jeremy Corbyn becoming leader", and added that it was "an issue with the hard left".

    Labour has faced claims of growing anti-Semitism in its ranks. Earlier this year a Labour Luton councillor was suspended from the party after claiming Hitler was the "greatest man in history".

    […]

    Shadow education secretary Lucy Powell, Ed Miliband's former chief of staff, told BBC Radio 4's Today programme the party "had to do more" to tackle anti-Semitism and MP Lisa Nandy said it had to be more "pro-active".

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 31 May 16 - 08:45 PM

Yes, and that's only right, because antisemitism is after all the single key issue of greatest vital importance and priority,
determining why we all ever vote Labour...!!! ✔

Let the nation and it's poorest over exploited citizens rot, as long as we STAMP OUT anyone who doesn't feel agreeable to licking Israel's arse......

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 31 May 16 - 08:58 PM

I trust Labour to implement an internal policy of encouraging members to be aware of any old fashioned trad white racists,
and any newcomer muslims intolerant to jews within the party.
Report them at branch level, so they can be dealt with appropriately.
While the party goes about the daily business of striving to protect and save our beleaguered nation from the tories...

All this shrill hyperbolic media hysteria indicates that this is not the real issue...

.. and bob 'n' keith.. you both know this to be true..


[unless you really are that disturbed and deluded... 😜 ]

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 31 May 16 - 09:43 PM

... oh yeah.. btw.. earlier I watched a news interview with a former CIA agent, he acknowledged that one of their favoured dirty tactics
is to target people 'who's opinions are not agreeable' and find any pretext
to get them up in front of a judge and tied up in court proceedings...

That'll keep 'em wearily preoccupied and distracted from doing whatever it was the CIA found displeasing.... 🤔

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Jun 16 - 05:49 AM

"To the regressive left anyone who opposes radical Islamists is an Islamophobe"
As anybody who critiscises Israel is an Anti-Semite.
Don't throw stones if you live in a glass house.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Jun 16 - 06:47 AM

So Labour Party Jews are not left wing enough to have their views considered!

How many Jews of any political persuaion can you find who do not regard the statements of Shah, Wright and others as offensively anti-semitic.

We do know that Sadiq Khan does.
We do know that Labour's NEC does.
We do know that the Jewish Labour Movement and Israel's Labour Party does.

I've already explained to you why it was no slur and not antisemitic.
!

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Jun 16 - 07:32 AM

Steve,
As an aside, just look at the "advisory bodies" of your quango.

Here is the Advisory Board.
What is your point?

ADVISORY BOARD
INTER-PARLIAMENTARY COALITION FOR COMBATING ANTISEMITISM        

EUROPEAN JEWISH CONGRESS

B'NAI BRITH INTERNATIONAL        

CEJI – A JEWISH CONTRIBUTION TO AN INCLUSIVE EUROPE

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 01 Jun 16 - 07:51 AM

Keith - if it's that important to you, take it up with your local Labour councillor, or MP if you're lucky enough to have one...


"So Labour Party Jews are not left wing enough to have their views considered!

.. no.. just the daft ones and the more bigoted Israeli regime supporters who put their narrow obsessions
before Labour's key principles, priorities, and party loyalty and unity.. 😠


Throughout the early 20th Century Jewish intellectual marxists were among the vanguard of the movement,
and deserve utmost recognition and respect..

Even more so those in pre war Germany, and central/eastern Europe.....

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 01 Jun 16 - 07:59 AM

As the political horseshoe theory attributed to Jean-Pierre Faye highlights, if we travel far-left enough, we find the very same sneering, nasty and reckless bully-boy tactics used by the far-right. The two extremes of the political spectrum end up meeting like a horseshoe, at the top, which to my mind symbolizes totalitarian control from above. In their quest for ideological purity, Stalin and Hitler had more in common than modern neo-Nazis and far-left agitators would care to admit.

Horseshoe Theory

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 01 Jun 16 - 08:01 AM

Keith - Btw.. if we showed you large high definition photos of mountains and molehills, could you easily identify which was which.....????? 😣

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Jun 16 - 08:13 AM

"far-left "
Israel now has an extremist far-right policy - acknowledged by members of its own establishment
It was the far-right of Germany who herded six million Jews to their deaths - established fact.
We now seem to be getting down to the fact that it is not The Jewish People you are defending but the far-right policies of the Israeli Regime.
This is where this argument should have been in the first place.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Jun 16 - 09:14 AM

My point is bleeding obvious. Most of the "advisory board" are ardently pro-Israel and are hardly going to argue against your broadened definition of antisemitism (the one that tries to stem all criticism of Israel). In fact, I'd say they are more of a lobby grouping than an advisory board, so it's a good job those criteria are not official EU policy. Not exactly balanced, is it, Keith?

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Jun 16 - 09:29 AM

What part of what she said was a "slur," Keith? Was she telling fibs? Did you look at the context (excuse me for being suspicious of you, but you've made the partial quote twice already). What was antisemitic? Did she say "all Jews?" Did she say "only Jews?" If she isn't allowed to say "Jews," what should she call them? Proto-Israelis?😂What do they call themselves? Are we allowed to say that Christians were involved in the slave trade? Frankly, you are crazy and mixed up. You want to jump on every remark made by anyone to the left of you (which is just about everyone), antennae a-twitching, looking for signs of cod-antisemitism. When you sat in your middle-class Christian pew last Sunday, did you not wonder how many of those devout chanters of prayers around you might have been harbouring just the teensiest hint of your brand of antisemitism?

And do you think you could answer (only if you want to, of course) by saying what you think instead of telling us what an assortment of other people think? That would make a nice change...

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 01 Jun 16 - 09:54 AM

I'm waiting for a phone call from my mother's Dr and getting a bit bored...
so...


There are good and bad people

All people are good

All people are bad

There are good and bad Jews

All Jews are good

All Jews are bad

There are good people who happen to be Jews

There are bad people who happen to be Jews

There are good people because they are Jews

There are bad people because they are Jews

The only good people are Jews

The only bad people are Jews


Now I'm not exactly sure where I'm going with this flow...
anyone else want to join in and contribute....?????


Maybe a cut out and keep card learning discussion card game for kiddies or cultural political illiterates.....????? 🎓

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 01 Jun 16 - 10:12 AM

..[yeah I know... I didn't catch it in Preview - last time my eyes were tested and new lenses prescribed was 20 years ago... 🤓]

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Jun 16 - 11:17 AM

Steve, if by "pro-Israel" you mean they want it to continue to exist, you have said that you do too.

Are you asserting that they are all too right wing to be on the board?
Which ones and why Steve?