BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Raggytash
Date: 05 Aug 16 - 07:58 AM

I am pretty certain that Jim is not responsible for anti-Semitism in 20% of the Irish population, even if that figure were to be correct.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Aug 16 - 08:24 AM

Leaked out, was it then? Evidence, please.

I don't care what the NEC or the Chief Rabbi or anyone else says because I can THINK FOR MYSELF. I know what those five said and I know they were idiots but not antisemitic. No-one in the NEC has said that such-and-such is an antisemite. I've repeatedly asked you for quotes to that effect and you've repeatedly failed to come up with any. It's all just your deluded interpretation based on a definition off antisemitism that suits your agenda. As for Shami Chakrabarti, I'm now repeatedly asking you for any dirt on her from her past that you have. You can't, because there isn't any. Prove that she was promised a peerage in return for a whitewash. You can't because that is not what happened. What she said in her critical report is in perfect harmony with what we know the accused people said: there were ignorant comments made, there is an issue that must be addressed but the party is not overrun by antisemitism. Of course it isn't, you clod. Now when you have a minute, perhaps you could address the blatant and farcical cronyism shown by Cameron in his resignation honours. Go on, prove that you're not a bigot and a hypocrite. It'll be bloody hard work.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Aug 16 - 08:30 AM

"People living in glass houses comes to mind:"
Tour report comes from the Anti-defamation Leage which is nearly as notorious as you for describing all criticism of Israel as "antisemitic"
"The Anti-Defamation League has drawn both criticism and controversy over its priorities. Noam Chomsky accuses them of "having lost entirely its focus on civil rights issues in order to become solely an advocate for Israeli policy". Journalist Mark Arax has criticized the organization's failure to recognize the Armenian Genocide "out of gratitude for Turkey being Israel's one and only Muslim ally".[5] The Washington Post has noted that the ADL has repeatedly accused Israeli policy critic Norman Finkelstein of being a "Holocaust denier" and that "these charges have proved baseless."[6]"
You really scrape the bottom of the barrel for your quotes, don't you?
In my experience, Ireland is notable for its toleration of all religions and races nowadays, certainly since the church has lost its grip.
The one exception is it's disturbing attitude towards Travellers, an attitude shared by Britain and at least one prominent participant in this discussion
By the way, I was born in Britain and lived their pp to 18 years ago.
The Lawrence family's experience of the racist experience of the police was not uncommon and it led to the police declaring themselves "institutionally racist".
You choose to ignore the percentages and put up one man as proof of what exactly
What I have describes is as I described - the experiences of many.
RACISM IN BRITAIN
If you mean by "hate Filled" - yes, I hate you racists - if you are referring to the British people, I most certainly do not
British people are as much victims of the use of racism by the right in Britain as are resident foreigners.
Shortage of work, substandard and overcrowded housing, attacks on "our way of life" - all par for the course by scum like Ukip - the racist nature of the Brexit campaign is fairly typical of that useage.
Before that there was Powell and his "rivers of blood" - even to revealing for the Tories, so they kicked him out as an embarrassment.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 05 Aug 16 - 08:49 AM

Noam Chomsky accuses them....

Would this be the same Khmer Rouge apologist Chomsky who claimed that refugees from the Cambodian genocide were "unreliable" and that "massacre reports were false" ?

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Aug 16 - 09:06 AM

"Would this be the same Khmer Rouge apologist Chomsky who claimed that refugees from the Cambodian genocide were "unreliable""
No - it would be the same highly respected Jewish intellectual who has been a long term victim of Israeli propaganda by such organisations as 'The Anti-defamation League'
You forgot to mention the 'respect' in which the ADL is held outside the propaganda circles

"Chomsky is one of the most cited scholars in human history, and has influenced a wide array of academic fields. He is widely recognized as a paradigm shifter who helped spark a major revolution in the human sciences, contributing to the development of a new cognitivistic framework for the study of language and the mind. In addition to his continued scholarly research, he remains a leading critic of U.S. foreign policy, neoliberalism and contemporary state capitalism, the Israeli–Palestinian conflict, and mainstream news media. His ideas in these areas have proved highly significant within the anti-capitalist and anti-imperialist movements, but have also drawn criticism, with some accusing Chomsky of anti-Americanism and alleging that he is sympathetic to terrorism and genocide denial."

"Academic achievements, awards, and honors
In 1970, Chomsky was named one of the "makers of the twentieth century" by The London Times.[163] In early 1969, he delivered the John Locke Lectures at Oxford University; in January 1971, the Bertrand Russell Memorial Lecture at the University of Cambridge, titled "Problems of Knowledge and Freedom"; in 1972, the Nehru Memorial Lecture in New Delhi;[270] in 1975, the Whidden Lectures at McMaster University, titled "Reflections on Language";[111] in 1977, the Huizinga Lecture in Leiden, titled "Intellectuals and the State"; in 1978, the Woodbridge Lectures at Columbia University; in 1979, the Kant Lectures at Stanford University;[270] in 1988, the Massey Lectures at the University of Toronto, titled "Necessary Illusions: Thought Control in Democratic Societies"; in 1997, The Davie Memorial Lecture on Academic Freedom in Cape Town;[271] in 2011, the Rickman Godlee Lecture at University College, London;[272] and many others.[270]
Chomsky has received honorary degrees from many colleges and universities around the world, including from the following:"
Both from his Wiki entry
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 05 Aug 16 - 09:14 AM

it would be the same highly respected Jewish intellectual

Maybe among leftist extremists of the regressive persuasion. In reality he is living proof of the Horseshoe Theory

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Aug 16 - 09:32 AM

Steve,
"Pakistani mayor" is a disgrace. Sadiq Khan is a British citizen,
Oh dear.
Rag,
Classic racism.
A PAKISTANI Mayor ?

What a pair of numpties.
You tried the same smear a few months ago when I referred to Yasmin Alibhai-Brown as Pakistani because she is a British citizen and not born in Pakistan.

How stupid you both looked when I pointed out that she describes herself as Pakistani. It is not necessary to always add "heritage."

If I was was really a racist, you would not have to try so hard to get something on me.
Steve would not have to dredge up a five and a half year old thread and then blatantly lie about it, as he did yesterday.

If only you had a case you could defend in discussion you would not have to resort to lies and smears about me as a person.

Stick to the debate instead of resorting to lying personal attacks, you sad numpties.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Raggytash
Date: 05 Aug 16 - 09:43 AM

We don't have to try at all.

To describe a man who was born and raised in Tooting as a Pakistani is all the evidence needed. Merely because the man has darker skin you immediately describe him as a Pakistani.

As he describes himself he is first and foremost he is a Londoner.

I have said it clearly before and I will say it again you are a racist but thanks for the superb confirmation.

Keeping digging !!

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Aug 16 - 09:44 AM

"Maybe among leftist extremists of the regressive persuasion"
So all those who respect Chomsky are " leftist extremists of the regressive persuasion"
Is suppose they are according to extremist right wing Zionists
A reminder that it was the right who condemned six pillion Jews (and regressive left wing extremists) to the gas chambers - you choose your company, I'll choose mine.
The Left movement was established by emigre Jews fleeing the 19th century pogroms, fighting alongside dissefected workers throughout Europe to establish a better world
They were fighting people like you with the kapo mentality, who licked the hand that was exterminating them
Your ancestors must be very proud of you
As they say - you can't choose your relatives, but you can choose your friends.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Aug 16 - 09:46 AM

From the Labour leadership debate reported in Guardian,

"Labour has been too slow to admit that the party has a problem with antisemitism – something it should be ashamed of, Smith says. "How has this happened?" he asks Corbyn.

Corbyn says many of the cases pre-date his leadership and wants Labour to be inclusive. "
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2016/aug/04/labour-leadership-debate-jeremy-corbyn-and-owen-smith-in-cardiff-live?page=
There you go Steve.
They both acknowledge that Labour has a long standing "problem with antisemitism."

Why would anyone dismiss what they say and listen to you?

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Aug 16 - 09:49 AM

Rag,
Keep digging.

No need.
You have been buried.

Now, will you explain your own apparent antisemitism Rag.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Greg F.
Date: 05 Aug 16 - 09:54 AM

Certainly not Greg F.

Right, then, T-Bird - whine all you want, but your total failure to supply any evidence does prove conclusively that you are, indeed, a lying piece of dirt.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Raggytash
Date: 05 Aug 16 - 09:56 AM

It's there for all to see professor

Keep digging, there's a good chap :-)

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Aug 16 - 10:19 AM

"There you go Steve."
Can't open your link - but the Statement comes from Owen Smith, who is Corbyn's opponent in the laft v right battle for the Labour Leadership
All grist to the political mill
"You have been buried."
Nope - you're the one still up to your neck in claims that British racism of the result of being mirepresented by those who hate Britain
Another claim you and your wannabe-militaristic mate have done a runner from
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 05 Aug 16 - 10:28 AM

Chomsky should stick to linguistics where he has some credibility.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 05 Aug 16 - 10:34 AM

The Left movement was established by emigre Jews fleeing the 19th century pogroms,

There is a difference between regressive leftists and progressive leftists. I put you and and your ilk in the former category.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 05 Aug 16 - 10:44 AM

They were fighting people like you with the kapo mentality, who licked the hand that was exterminating them

This statement is hysterical - in both meanings of the word.

I note you become more and more frantic to the point of hysterical delusion in your attempt to smear those who challenge your dearly held ideological dogma - you really should take a few deep breaths and calm you mind before posting such ad hominem stupidity.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Aug 16 - 10:51 AM

" I put you and and your ilk in the former category"
And I put you in the caterogory of people who Israelis including ex leaders of Mossad and high ranking military leaders have described as pursuing and supporting policies comparable with those of the Nazis.
So there uyou go
You are an extremist of the type that instigated the murder of six million Jews, along with the mentally ill, Gypsies, left wingers and those considered unfit for society - only this time your target is Arabs rather than Jews.
If it's alright with you, I'll go with the holocaust survivor mother of an ex-girlfriend who told me "never again - not to anybody".
People like you have betrayed that pledge
The fact that you are not ashamed of that fact makes you what you are.
You and everyone like you are a disgrace - more-so because you slink behind the six million dead to justify your extremism
Your words spoken from another mouth
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Aug 16 - 10:58 AM

Ad hominem stupidity is your stock in trade, both as bobad and as the anonymous Guest-coward. It's rich coming from you, is that.

So, Keith, tell me what they said that I've dismissed. As it happens, you have a far greater problem with antisemitism. First, you're obsessed with it. Second, you can't define it. You find someone who said something about Israel that you don't like then build your definition around what they said. Wacky. And I'll tell you summat else. You've shown your racist credentials loud and proud this week, yet you protest and deny it. Wouldn't you have thought you could have been slightly cleverer than to call Sadiq Khan a Pakistani mayor? Clumsy, was it - or yet another example of your innate racism coming out?

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Aug 16 - 11:01 AM

Nowhere in this argument has any of the Tory flag waggers responded to the fact that the Tories have been accused of Islamophobia and racism, they have yet to even consider enquiring into it, let alone deal with it.
Labour did so immediately and found no problem - the flag waggers continue to wag their flags claiming Labour Antisemitism
Agenda or what?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Aug 16 - 11:06 AM

Just say "Lord George Osborne" and rest your case, Jim! 😂😂😂

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Aug 16 - 11:15 AM

Lord George Osborne - I rest my case
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Aug 16 - 11:48 AM

Steve,
So, Keith, tell me what they said that I've dismissed.

That Labour has a long standing problem with antisemitism, something you have denied.
You still refuse to recognise the antisemitism in the hateful statements that have led to expulsions and two inquiries.

First, you're obsessed with it.

No, but I always challenge any racism.

Second, you can't define it.

Yes I can. I use the same definitions as the European Parliament Working Group on Antisemitism.
You can find it here,
http://www.antisem.eu/projects/eumc-working-definition-of-antisemitism/

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Aug 16 - 12:27 PM

Rag,
Merely because the man has darker skin you immediately describe him as a Pakistani.

You have a racist's obsession with skin colour.
That is not where anyone's heritage comes from!

It comes from being born or adopted into a family of that heritage and growing up within that culture, like both Khan and Yasmin Alibhai Brown.

That is why she describes herself as "Pakistani," though she was not born in Pakistan, is a British citizen and is married to an English man.
Does that make her a racist, silly boys?

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Aug 16 - 12:35 PM

Round and round and round we go! Back to the good old EUMC definition that was never an official definition, which was pushed hard for by pro-Israel lobby groups and which has been defunct for years. All dealt with, dead and buried in this thread months ago. There was nothing antisemitic in what Ken Livingstone said. He spoke accurately but with execrable timing. No hatred of Jews because they are Jews. Focus, Keith. Antisemitism is all about Jews because they are Jews. It is not about politics or about a country's rulers. Like any large organisation, Labour has an issue with people speaking unwisely or ignorantly. It's just that Labour has had to address it, which it now has. Plenty of rotten apples in the setups you support, don't you worry about that, but they're safe as long as there are no enquiries, aren't they, you hypocrite? You damn well know as well as I do that Ken Livingstone is not antisemitic. Just get real for once, will you. And address your own racism while you're at it. Pakistani mayor, eh? Piccaninnies? Got anything on Maoris, aborigines, redskins or Eskimos while you're at it?

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Aug 16 - 12:41 PM

By the way, you alleged that Chakrabarti was promised a peerage in return for a whitewash. That this was leaked out. I asked you for evidence of that. I note that you haven't responded. I feel another Wheatcroft episode coming on. Or were you only "speaking generally" again? 😂

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Teribus
Date: 05 Aug 16 - 01:06 PM

Jim Carroll - 05 Aug 16 - 10:51 AM

"I put you in the caterogory of people who Israelis including ex leaders of Mossad and high ranking military leaders have described as pursuing and supporting policies comparable with those of the Nazis."

Oh dear Jom, if you were in the Labour Party that remark would get you expelled as a racist according to their new rules and guidelines.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Aug 16 - 01:31 PM

"Oh dear Jom, if you were in the Labour Party that remark would get you expelled as a racist according to their new rules and guidelines." Whose new rule guidelines?
The Israelis have torn up any guidelines by declaring all criticism Antisemitic and by declaring all Jewish Critics "self hating" which means their definition of Jewish is an extreme right wing political one rather than an Ethno/cultural one - "Israel uber alles".
No political state has a right to make such a definition and under those circumstance, there can be no acceptable definition.
Israel has in fact declared war on large sections of the Jewish People including Israeli citizens - that is not acceptable.
Now - how about trying to respond to that without the contempt and vitriolic bile that you usually use to disguise the fact that you are at a loss for a half-decent answer!!
And you still haven't responded to the Tory's failure to respond to the calls for an enquiry into racism and Islamophobia - Labour managed it without any trouble
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Aug 16 - 01:49 PM

"You have a racist's obsession with skin colour."
I have decided that if you ever erfer to anybodya as a ra=cist again I wll remind you of your vicious attack on the Pakistani people
You have been warned
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Aug 16 - 02:34 PM

I wll remind you of your vicious attack on the Pakistani people

You have been trying for over 5 years Jim.
It will never happen because your accusations are bollocks.

You dredge it all up several times a year, whenever you are losing and argument however irrelevant to the subject, as here you sad man.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Aug 16 - 02:50 PM

"You have been trying for over 5 years Jim."
No Keuith - I have being doing so for five years, and will continue to do so for as long as I find it necessary.
I'm ashamed to say I now get some degree of pleasure in watcching you squirm and try to lie your way out of your horrendous statement by blaming somebody else than refusing to reproduce what they say.
Yoy suggested Steve was a racist - he isn't, but you are.
You accuse me of making things up - I don't, you do.
You have no self respect and you continue your dishonest behaviour so the next best thing is to allow you to humiliate yourself further by lying publicly and refusing to produce what you claim somebody said.
No public figure has ever tried to implicate the entire British Pakistani population of having underage sex with children because of their culture - you have.
Steve is not a racist - you are.
Prove otherwise
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Aug 16 - 02:57 PM

Steve, you said (italics not working again)
"By the way, you alleged that Chakrabarti was promised a peerage in return for a whitewash."

If she was offered a peerage before the report came out, then it is perfectly reasonable to assume it was intended to influence it.

That is why Streeting said it "stinks" and it "undermines" the "remaining credibilty" of her report.

Her interviewer must have known well before about the offer or he would not have raised the issue.
She refused to answer, so she obviously was aware of it too and realised how bad it looked.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKutU_BF2Mw

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Aug 16 - 03:00 PM

Jim,
"Prove otherwise
Jim Carroll"

I have, every time you dredge it up.
I am happy to go on exposing you dishonesty every time you do it.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Raggytash
Date: 05 Aug 16 - 03:34 PM

The fact you referred to Sadiq Khan as the PAKISTANI Mayor of London speaks volumes about your RACISM.

Sadiq Khan was born and raised in London, he describes himself as a Londoner, he is a Londoner and therefore British.

Your referral to his background has everything to do with your RACISM.

You will keep digging because that is what you do. You obviously do not have the wit or intelligence to comprehend that all you type compounds the fact that you are a RACIST. If you want to continue to make it clear that you are a RACIST that that's fine by me.

Please keep digging.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 05 Aug 16 - 03:41 PM

You are an extremist of the type that instigated the murder of six million Jews, along with the mentally ill, Gypsies, left wingers and those considered unfit for society - only this time your target is Arabs rather than Jews.

You really are a mental case, aren't you.....sick, sick, sick!

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Teribus
Date: 05 Aug 16 - 04:54 PM

"Whose new rule guidelines?"

Those recommended to Labour's NEC by our new member of the House of Lords Jom.

Key Recommendation No.4 from her Report (But of course you would have known that Jom wouldn't you if you had read it)

"4. Labour members should resist the use of Hitler, Nazi and Holocaust metaphors, distortions and comparisons in debates about Israel-Palestine in particular."

You were drawing such comparisons weren't you Jom - you naughty little "socialist" you - maybe if you apologise they will let you come back and play after you've stood in the corner for the amazingly short time required.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Teribus
Date: 05 Aug 16 - 05:00 PM

"you still haven't responded to the Tory's failure to respond to the calls for an enquiry into racism and Islamophobia - Labour managed it without any trouble"

What calls for an inquiry into racism and Islamophobia?

Labour managed it without any trouble

Labour managed it without any trouble because they contrived to hush it up. While Labour might be rather good at that, the Tories seem to have their act together for a far greater degree when it comes to electing a new leader.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Aug 16 - 05:26 PM

Steve, you said (italics not working again)
"By the way, you alleged that Chakrabarti was promised a peerage in return for a whitewash."

If she was offered a peerage before the report came out, then it is perfectly reasonable to assume it was intended to influence it.

That is why Streeting said it "stinks" and it "undermines" the "remaining credibilty" of her report.

Her interviewer must have known well before about the offer or he would not have raised the issue.
She refused to answer, so she obviously was aware of it too and realised how bad it looked.

Perfectly reasonable my arse. You have failed to produce the evidence that your claim required. Talk about extrapolations and made-up shite. That is a smear. You accuse other people of "smearing" you when the accusations are accurate, then you smear Chakrabarti on completely tenuous grounds. Jesus, you'd have been a great judge for Senator McCarthy, or during the Red Scares. You have about one thousandth of the integrity of Shami Chakrabarti, if that, so it's high time you shut your big gob about her. Next to you, she's a shining star of integrity beside a pile of ordure. Had it been true that she accepted the promise of a peerage in return for producing a whitewash, and that that had been leaked as you claimed, it would have provided the scandal of scandals. But it hasn't. It's produced a few wankers like you and the Tory press trying to make hay, and it's got nowhere. What's your next move? Are you sure that Jeremy doesn't eat babies? This is right up there with your Wheatcroft moment and your spurious claim about the EUMC non-document. You are a disreputable desperado of the worst kind.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Teribus
Date: 05 Aug 16 - 05:28 PM

Suggest that all you "lefties" who reckon that there is nothing untoward about Shami Chakrabarti's peerage, or the timing of it should take a look at the process particularly the timing of it.

Keith A sais the following:

"If she was offered a peerage before the report came out, then it is perfectly reasonable to assume it was intended to influence it."

The process takes quite some time and those so honoured are never taken by surprise when it is announced publicly because they have been forewarned and told of the honour and sworn to secrecy. This is done to avoid the embarrassment that could arise if anyone actually refused the honour. The Chakrabarti Report was dated 30th June, 2016 - A mere five weeks ago, the process would have been started a bit further back than that.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 05 Aug 16 - 05:34 PM

The peerage Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn gave to Shami Chakrabarti, head of the party's latest inquiry into its own anti-Semitism, is an act of stunning hypocrisy and failure of principles, U.K. Jews be damned.

The Labour Party's Cynical Sell-out of the Jewish Community on anti-Semitism

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Greg F.
Date: 05 Aug 16 - 05:54 PM

You really are a mental case, aren't you.

Asshole, heal thyself. Eyes, beams, motes & etc.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Aug 16 - 05:56 PM

Sorry, but if you are going to make an accusation (or, in your cases, a smear) that she was PROMISED A PEERAGE IN RETURN FOR A WHITEWASH you must produce the evidence. All I'm hearing from you lot is surmise and conjecture. No smoke without fire, etc., put two and two together and make a hundred and two, but with not a single scrap of substantiation. It's amazing how you lot will defend Boris, Pinochet and Farage who are all bang to rights yet attack a woman who has demonstrated the highest level of integrity in public service for decades, simply because she didn't hang, draw and quarter a few idiots who needed to watch their mouths but who are clearly not antisemitic. Now bloody well piss or get off the pot. Keith said he has the evidence but he can't produce it. You lot are backing him up. What in Christ's name does that say about you? Evidence, please, or just knock it off. The woman in question has a damn sight more integrity than any of you lot could muster in a million years.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Aug 16 - 06:03 PM

Well, bobad, all I'm getting is a hysterical slogan and a kind offer to subscribe to Haaretz. I'd much sooner buy beer. 😂😂😂

By the way, can you demonstrate that the "Jewish community" is feeling "sold out" by Labour?

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Greg F.
Date: 05 Aug 16 - 06:41 PM

Bubo can't demonstrate that up is up, fer chrissakes, Steve.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Aug 16 - 07:07 PM

Shit, Greg, how could I not realise that. Damn. Bugger. Well hit me on the bottom with the Woman's Weekly. By the way, which bobad did you mean? The "man" known as bobad, or the wimp who posed as an anonymous Guest, bleating about the need to address the issue, not the man, whilst calling us Jew-haters? That bobad? 😂😂😂

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 05 Aug 16 - 10:43 PM

British Jewish Community in Uproar After Controversial Author of 'Whitewash' Antisemitism Inquiry 'Rewarded' With Prestigious Parliamentary Position

The Algemeiner

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Teribus
Date: 06 Aug 16 - 01:35 AM

Steve Shaw - 05 Aug 16 - 05:56 PM

"Sorry, but if you are going to make an accusation (or, in your cases, a smear) ................................................ you must produce the evidence."

Good heavens Shaw, that is a bit of a turn round - you and your pals have been casting accusations and allegations around about people on this forum for years as a routine debating tactic and proudly declaring that no evidence or substantiation was required or would be forthcoming - A yes but I forgot - One sauce for the Goose another for the Gander, that hypocritical stance is regarded as being perfectly acceptable to you and your pals.

Chakrabarti was asked the question point blank in a TV interview:

"Oliver Anisfeld, J-TV's Founder said: "Many have criticised Chakrabarti's report into anti-Semitism in the Labour Party as simply written to provide cover for Jeremy Corbyn and his own troubling record of liaisons with known Jew haters.

"Chakrabarti's refusal to deny that she was offered a peerage raises certain questions - all she had to do was say 'no', assuming she hadn't, but she was uncomfortable and evasive. Viewers can draw their own conclusions."

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Aug 16 - 03:33 AM

"I have, every time you dredge it up."
Good - then we're both happy and will continue to be for the forseeable future.
The fact that you have never produced anybody who you claim made a claim about implanted Pakistanis, nor will you ever do so, proves it to be your statement alone.
Call anybody a racist again and 'pouff' - up it will come.
I've got very tired with you and your thuggish mate deliberately wrecking these threads with your dishonest stonewalling, your constant desire to "win", your extreme inhumanity, your hypocrisy and your insulting behaviour - both of you.
"4. Labour members should resist the use of Hitler, Nazi and Holocaust metaphors, distortions and comparisons in debates about Israel-Palestine in particular."
I'm not a member of the Labour Party - as things stand at present, I don't even support their policies - I haven't voted for them since Blair and his cronies turned the party into a shadow Tory Party, so why should I have any regard for such guidelines?
This comparison is now being made worldwide by Jews and non Jews, inside and outside of Israel, including by members of the Israeli establishment
General Golan
Holocaust survivors
Holocaust survivors petition
The definition of Antisemitism has always included the clause that it is forbidden to blame the Jewish People for the actions of the Israeli Government, yet the Israelis, by claiming that it is Antisemitic to criticise Israeli policy, are doing exactly this - equating their policies with the wishes of the Jews.
This makes any definition totally invalid.
"You really are a mental case, aren't you.....sick, sick, sick!"
No - it is you, by blaming the Jewish people for the atrocities carried out by Israel, who are sick - it is you who is the right wing extremist and it is you who denigrates the Palestinian people with cut-'n-pastes from fascist sites and supports the mass murder of civilians, refugees, women and children, and the destruction of their homes, schools and hospitals, the use of chemical and anti-personnel weapons, the massacre of 3,500 unarmed refugees........ who are as sick as the sickest parrot
GENOCIDE
Your defence of Israel is, by definition Antisemitic, so don't tell me I am sick
Your torrent of vitriolic abuse underlines exactly what you are.
You want to make a case for Israel, do so with genuine evidence, not long lists put together by fanatical Islamophobic organisations.
You want a decent argument - stop using Antisemitic arguments - you are no better than and little different from the BNP trolls that pop up from time to time on this site.
Nobody here has ever at any time on this forum accused the Jewish People of anything other than people like you.
You claim I am an extremist left-winger - do you have any evidence of this - course you haven't - people like you don't need evidence to make their insulting accusations.
Now - produce some proof or crawl back under your bridge
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Aug 16 - 04:28 AM

Steve,
Keith said he has the evidence but he can't produce it.

The secret was out within 3 weeks of the report (see my video link).
I was referring to the peerage offer myself a few days after that, weeks before it was announced, so it was leaked.

As T said, she must have been offered it before she produced her report.
As a Labour MP said, "it stinks."

Jim,
Call anybody a racist again and 'pouff' - up it will come.

I never have, but you have been dredging up that old stuff for years, and unless Mudcat finally stops you, you will continue trying to make threads about me instead of the issue.
You sad, obsessed man.

The fact that you have never produced anybody who you claim made a claim about implanted Pakistanis,

But I have, repeatedly!
We are all implanted to some extent by our culture, and I quoted many people who said the culture led to the offending.
I know nothing about that culture myself and made no claim about it myself.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Aug 16 - 05:30 AM

"She must have been offered it before the report" - bollocks. Not evidence. That proves absolutely nothing. Thrown out of court. You accused her of taking the peerage IN RETURN FOR A WHITEWASH REPORT.   In return for it, Keith. Prove it. Put up or shut up. And Teribus, dear chap, has it not occurred to you that dignified people routinely refuse to answer insulting and uncalled-for questions? You wouldn't do it and I wouldn't do it. If someone came up to you and said "Hey, Bill, are you a child molester?" Would you dignify the questioner with an answer? I bloody wouldn't. I'd tell him to bugger off in no uncertain terms and so would you. Now if you have solid evidence that she accepted a peerage IN RETURN FOR a whitewash, let's be having it. It is a very serious accusation, and it might not have occurred to you that had there been any truth in it at all it would be the scandal of the year. Instead, it's not even a nine-day wonder, and only that because of the hysterical bleatings of a few pro-Israel bigots who are actually very close to breaking the law by making unfounded and unsupportable accusations against her.