Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 15 Oct 05 - 04:42 PM

T-e-n-u-r-e.   :-)

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Oct 05 - 07:33 PM

I own a Taylor 814ce, but before that I tried every martin I could find, and they just sounded flat. The workmanship seemed OK at fisrt glance, but just not precise enough, and the action is way to high for me on most Martins. So, I had basically given up on martins as a high end guitar purchase...until I played a Tom Petty signature model at Guitar center. AWESOME guitar...I am in the process of putting my musicman silhouette down as payment to put it on lay away, its worth it. In my opinion, you want precision and playabilty, go with Taylor. Martin is great, but you REALLY have to look for something special because they are really inconsistent.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: Guy Wolff
Date: 15 Oct 05 - 10:31 PM

Thanks Stolling Johnny I would have never guessed !! You are a scolar and a gentleman .. My wife keeps handing me the dictionary .

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 16 Oct 05 - 09:53 AM

I own three Martins. Two of them are the inexpensive 15 Series, and the other is a DC-28 (a D-28 with a cutaway) that I bought used. I have no complaints with any of them. And there's no doubt that the finest sounding guitars I've ever played have been older Martins.

But there's a difference between paying $500 for a 15 Series guitar or $800 for that used DC-28 and paying $2000 for a new D-28. I doubt I would ever buy a brand new higher end (Standard Series, Vintage Series etc.) Martin. I'm over the "Martin mystique" except when it comes to fine vintage instruments. When I decided my fingerpicking had progressed far enough to deserve a good small-bodied guitar, I didn't even think about a Martin, but went straight to a Santa Cruz.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: John Hardly
Date: 16 Oct 05 - 10:17 AM

BWL,

Funny, I remember some guy on another guitar forum talking in glowing terms about his new Martin X series guitar (chipboard guitar with print-of-wood laminate -- no kidding -- they now make camo-guitars the same way -- don't believe me? check this out ). He was saying how this X series guitar had that "Martin sound".

hmmm.

So, the......

D28
HD28
D18
OM28
OM18
00028
00018
0018
0028
D15
D16
OM15
OM16
D28VS
D18VS
D28GE
D18GE
D35
D40
D42
D45
J18
J28
M35
CEO4
CEO5

...and the "smart wood series", and the X series, and the "Road" series...

ALL have that "Martin sound"?

And one doesn't like the Martin neck....

.....hmmmm...

would that be the pre-'50s neck, or the modified "V" neck, or the new low profile neck, or the.......

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: mooman
Date: 16 Oct 05 - 10:24 AM

Each to their own.

I've owned a Martin 000-18, a Gibson J-45, a Guild D-25, a Manson Kingfisher (made personally by Andy Manson), a Lowden and a custom Lakewood M-18 (made personally by Martin Seeliger) over the years (amongst others).

The €360 (USD 435) Korean small luthier-shop-made "unknown brand" tiger maple-topped archtop (with extensive and exquisite abalone inlay) I now almost exclusively use (apart from a Czech-made Regal Duolian copy for some music) actually beats all of these (some of which are at the €4000 - €5000 price tag these days).

Same with the mandolin family. I own one expensive "name" instrument, an outstanding Terry Docherty OM bought second-hand from another Mudcatter. My mandolin and tenor mandola are both made by a virtually unknown UK luthier, the latter to my own specifications, for a very democratic price.

I don't think "name" accounts for much any more and I don't give a monkey's ankle what Martin Gibson thinks about it.

Peace,

moo

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: Auggie
Date: 16 Oct 05 - 02:06 PM

Bee-dubya-ell-

What kind of Santa Cruz do you use for finger picking?

I have 3 Martins, all different from each other in woods, tone and action, and all fall into the "never to part with" catagory.

But when it was time to find something to just fingerpick with, I wound up with a little 00 size Santa Cruz. Bought it a month ago, and if I could only keep two guitars, it would be the Cruz and one of the CFM's.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: Deckman
Date: 16 Oct 05 - 02:28 PM

Being 168 years olde, I've owned many guitars ... Martins, Takimine's, others. I've always returned to Martins. For the last 15 years, or so, I've kept two Martins: A 1922 steel string,and a 1938 Classic. The classic does play itself. It's by far the most responsive, gentle, yet full voiced instrument I've ever had the honor of owning.

But, as I said earlier, the qualities in a guitar are very personal and sometimes fleeting ... just like a woman! CHEERS, Bob(deckman)Nelson

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: number 6
Date: 16 Oct 05 - 07:02 PM

" I don't think "name" accounts for much any more and I don't give a monkey's ankle what Martin Gibson thinks about it."

amen to that Mooman!

sIx

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: Peace
Date: 16 Oct 05 - 07:05 PM

"Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?"

Same reason Rolls Royce are so expensive. Quality.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: number 6
Date: 16 Oct 05 - 11:12 PM

Hmmmmm ..... it's all urban legend Peace.

http://www.snopes.com/autos/dream/rolls.asp

So .. why are Rolls Royces so expensive?

sIx

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: Mooh
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 07:10 AM

"That Martin sound" really cracks me up. It only means the company believes they can con the market with some unrealistic ideal. Every guitar sounds different, some more different than others. Most guitars that meet the threshold of build and materials quality, playability, and appearance will sound acceptable, and some of those guitars will sound superior to the majority of ears. As for an individual "sound", that depends on what the individual hears, or even wants to hear. Various Martin models sound variously different, otherwise why make so many models? And, they sound as various and different as models by other builders.

Don't get me wrong, I love many Martins, and would really like a nice dread someday, but if a competing builder's guitar pleased my ears as much that would be good too.

The fact that you can get as good (and sometimes better) a guitar from another manufacturer is just an apples and oranges thing, or in my case, peaches.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: Peace
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 10:03 AM

OK, sIx: They are the Macintosh apple of guitars.

Mooh's right however; a good guitar is a good guitar. I have a good Martin. I have played a few bad ones over the years. BUT, very few bad ones.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: number 6
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 11:04 AM

That's more like it Peace. More specifically the Mac apples grown around the southern part of Georgian Bay ... damned good apples they are.

As much as I'm happy with my China Blueridge and my Taylor .. one day I'd like to get a Martin d-35.

sIx

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: Peace
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 11:06 AM

Jean Larrivee makes a great guitar. I wish . . . .

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: number 6
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 11:13 AM

That's it Peace ... now your gonna get the Larrivee fans going here.

sIx

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: John Hardly
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 11:34 AM

Larrivee is just the tip of the huge Canadian iceberg of GREAT guitars. It's just a very tasteful tip.

My first REALLY nice guitar was a Larrivee CS09M -- the maple had just begun to age to that beautiful amber color. Man, that was a beautiful guitar -- loud too.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: John Hardly
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 11:34 AM

...oh, and it had that "Larrivee sound".

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: Deckman
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 05:50 PM

This thread also reminds me of an incident that happened to me in "67." That's "1967," thank you. In 1867 i was just recovering from the civil war.

Eastern airlines flew my guitar and I to Indianappolis, Indiana. They used my guitar as a landing skid. It came out of baggage claim 2" thick, case and all!

They made good the damage, which resulted in my being given a blank check to replace that model of Martin guitar from the largest guitar store in town. As it happened, they had a dozen models in stock of my guitar. I took three weeks and spent many hours playing each and every one of those twelve guitars.

The differences between them were quite surprising to me. Some were dead, some were lively, some were O.K. I picked the one that was the closest to what I had lost ... but ... it still never became equal to it. (one bonus though was that I dated the baggage claim supervisor for the three months I was in town). CHEERS, Bob(deckman)Nelson

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: frogprince
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 05:57 PM

I have no idea how that LXTREE sounds , but I know what looks ugly to me. Are people actually buying that damn thing in any real numbers?

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: John Hardly
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 06:06 PM

The thing is, frogprince...

If you are playing it in the woods it becomes essentially invisible, and therefore, considerably less ugly.

....sure, out in the open you gotta bag it, but, hey, you use a tool where you use a tool.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: John Hardly
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 06:07 PM

BTW, Deckman, I think I saw your guitar in a Roadrunner episode.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: Deckman
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 07:13 PM

J.H. Highly likely!

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: Guy Wolff
Date: 18 Oct 05 - 07:52 PM

Interesting circles of conversation here. I might have changed the thread's name to "Why are quality guitars expensive?" Sort or self explanitor though . I just stopped by a local store and tried a beautiful Talyor 700 searies drednaught .Bright clear and great sustain : List was $3,200.00 but I could have it for only $2,500.00 . Brazilian rose wood is hard to come by and the interior had an army of micraphones . Great Guitar. How much is a concert shaped Santa Cruz now anyway ??? I think I tried a Froggy Bottom in Madison for $4,00.00 a few years back .. All the best , guy

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST,Coldeb
Date: 22 Oct 05 - 07:50 AM

Depends what you buy, they used to be very good Guitars making sweeps into the Gibson market, the Old D series especially. My brother recently bought the Martin 16GTR cutaway; it's one of the best Guitars I've ever played! the build quality is superb!, however, and this is important, recently Martin have tried to take a swipe at the Takamine, Taylor and Yamaha mid range market and produce Guitars around the £500.00 mark. (Such as the road series). I've tried quite a few of these mid range guitars of theirs and they are poorly made using laminates and nato necks, they look bad too!, there is no way these come close to a good Taylor or Takimini just in build quality alone. In fact, I just played the Yamaha LL6, a Beautiful Guitar, build quality is amazing and it's only £329.00 (approx) and will nock spots of any Martin under a grand! My advice for what it's worth is, by all means by a Martin but don't consider anything under a £1000.00 (PS I have an Old Fylde Caliban, I'll give it a Pepsi test against ANY Martin or Gibson whatever they cost!!!)[e-mail]

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: Tam the man
Date: 22 Oct 05 - 08:09 AM

because they are, mind you I don't know that much about Guitars, I Play one, and to me one sounds exactly like another the same goes for srtings.

Tom
Mind you I did buy a guitar in Australia, and When I brought home I played my old guitar and it sounded shit compared to the new one that I bought.

Tom

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: Peter T.
Date: 22 Oct 05 - 08:45 PM

The question no one seems to have asked/answered is: what is it that makes guitars cost what they cost? If you had to work out percentages, is it the different kinds of wood that go up in price as you get better wood; or the workmanship, or what? When you jump price categories, is it because the woods change? or does the workmanship take longer? Just wondering. I assume it is a mix of both.....

yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: Guy Wolff
Date: 23 Oct 05 - 11:32 AM

In the article about Chrisian Martin they mention in passing of going past a locked volt with vintage guitars and speicialty woods. I think Peter T is on the money when he brings up wood expences and hand work . Keeping any hand made product going means making some form of Profit Margin after the material hand work tools and rent are taken care of so that the company is there next year. Also the Music store needs to pay rent and all . So looking at the lines of expenditures before one sits down to try a great guitar on the floor at either of the Stans ( Mandolin bros. & Music Emporium ) or Elderly are very substantial . In fact its amazing we have the choices we have .
                On the lower level Martins that I emagine come from the Mexican factory I am sorry to read the above. I have tried a few but not carfully . I liked the tone of one 018 I tried at Fretted Workshop last year but at $650.00 it may have been from Nazaeth .
               All the best , Guy

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: John Hardly
Date: 24 Oct 05 - 10:50 AM

"The question no one seems to have asked/answered is: what is it that makes guitars cost what they cost?"

1. Demand in the world of luthiery is not unlike demand in the world of art. ...or the world of fashion, for that matter.

The world of luthiery has a very insider/cache' element to it, with guys "in the know" who influence a very committed and maleable buying public.

2. Whether by the influence of famous players, or the insider buzz of who's "hot" in the world of luthiery, some builders must then set prices in such a manner as to keep up with the necessary production.

What's "hot" keeps the prices high, while well-made imports tend to force a different reality onto the pricing.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: Barbara Shaw
Date: 24 Oct 05 - 02:44 PM

We took a tour of the Martin Guitar Factory in Nazareth, PA this past spring, and I took photos throughout the tour. The detail and attention given each part was most impressive, and I for one think their guitars are worth every penny. You can check out my album here: Martin Guitar Tour

The guys at the very end have the best job: they just stand around playing the finished guitars all day to make sure they're up to standards.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: John Hardly
Date: 24 Oct 05 - 02:51 PM

Terrific photos, Barbara. Thanks for posting that.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST,Martin gibson
Date: 24 Oct 05 - 03:14 PM

I love saying it.

Martins rule. Gibsons are cool. Taylor's blow. country and bluegrass musicians are just not like many folkie fags who have a problem with Martins or Gibsons probably because they are American made.

Many who don't like Martins just can't afford the more decent expensive ones in the standard series or they are tone deaf or both,

Or they are morons like Guest, Sherlock Holmes who can't play worth a shit anyway and uses his color by numbers on his frets like that other dope he defended.

Love to the rest of you who are smart enough to know.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: kendall
Date: 24 Oct 05 - 03:28 PM

People who think they know it all really bug those of us who really do.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST,Martin Gibson
Date: 24 Oct 05 - 03:49 PM

People who pretend to really know it all, are usually full of crap, because they don't.   And are.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: number 6
Date: 24 Oct 05 - 04:14 PM

Interesting pics Barbara. Thanks for posting.

I wonder what the employee discount is?

sIx

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST,Sherlock Holmes (Friend of Doc Watson)
Date: 24 Oct 05 - 06:54 PM

Always talking about yourself, eh, Martin Gibson?

I'm not tone deaf at all, but even if I were, I could console myself by knowing that it's better to be tone deaf than brain dead.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST,TC
Date: 26 Oct 05 - 01:13 PM

The simple answer is, that customers are willing to pay the price!
If you want something badly enough then you will part with your cash and manufacturers know this. I paid £92/12/6 in 1961 for a 000-18. This was 3 month's salary. The only competition at that time being from Gibson. The Martin sounded much better in the treble range. Although this was a fortune to me at that time, I never regretted the purchase. Occasionally I will try some new Martins or other quality makes but I have yet to find one that would make me part with this member of my family. I can come into the room where it is lying on the bed, clap my hands and the guitar rings in response. The vibration can be felt on the soundboard.
To sum up, I was forced to part with the money because the choice was non-existant. Buying a guitar today I would look and play all the models I could see and then choose the best I could afford.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Oct 05 - 08:30 PM

Nice pics, Barbara... I've had my '65 D-18 back to Martin once in '76 fir some "warrenty" work and was very impressed by the the folks there... Sure, it took a couple weeks to get it back but it played even better than new when they were finished tinkerin' with it...

Plays even better now... Even Kendall got to hear it at the Getaway and though he'd never admit it, if he could he say, "Great soundin" Martin....

I did play his Taylor a couple times and found it very playable and sounded purdy good but, in all honesty, din't quite have the tone as my Martin... Might of fact, that's what I think makes Martins better than Gibsons, Guilds or Taylors... It's that Martin tone... No, not all the new ones have it but the oldies sho nuff have it...

Bobert

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: John Hardly
Date: 26 Oct 05 - 09:26 PM

um......

Bobert, there was no Taylor in '65. If your Martin sounds good because of age, perhaps that's not it's "Martin-ness" you're hearing?

Listen to an '80's Taylor in 2025 for a fairer comparison?

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST,phgarrett
Date: 05 Nov 05 - 02:15 PM

I have a dozen or so fretted instruments. They include a Gibson J50 that I have owned for 40 years, a Gurian JM,'64 Epiphone Bard,Westerman Bouzouki,Dobro,Taylor etc. etc.
When I go to play a gig I never leave the house without my 2000 Martin OM28V. Nothing else comes close except the Gibson.
My bandmate plays a couple of Lowdens and the Martin eats them up tone-wise.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: kendall
Date: 05 Nov 05 - 08:25 PM

My challenge still stands. Bring them on.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: Bobert
Date: 05 Nov 05 - 08:49 PM

Fair enuff, John... What year is yers, Kendall???

Bobert

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: kendall
Date: 06 Nov 05 - 08:20 AM

1983

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST,Bernie
Date: 06 Nov 05 - 02:31 PM

If I may add my two cents worth at this late date,I don't think they ARE all that expensive.......the high-end models are up there,but not any more than the Collings,Bourgeois,Goodalls,even Santa Cruz[the few I've seen]...where I feel Martin has an advantage is in the lower-end series,in particular 16 series.....a friend has a rosewood dreadnaught that is super for the price,another has a DVM[which I believe is partly laminated]...both sound much beter than current Gibsons,Taylors and Larrivees that I've played,dollar for dollar,that is.....I'm currently trying out a Martin OOO16SGT[12-fret slothead]...amazing little guitar,only about $1000.00 in the states[$1300.00] in Canada.....blows away the two small Taylors I've owned,plus all other small guitars I've seen.......no doubt there are many in Santa Cruz,Huss & Dalton lines,countless others that would equal or surpass it,but,at that price?..I don't think so......Stan Jay[Mandolin Bros.]told me that Martin is "eating eveybody's lunch" when it comes to moderate priced guitars.....guess he knows..
I've had the pleasure of Playing Kendall's Taylor a few times,it's in a class by itself....to my ear,a cross between an old Gibson J45 and an old,seasoned D28,if that makes any sense.......a killer....

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: kendall
Date: 06 Nov 05 - 02:39 PM

I rest my hard shell case.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Nov 05 - 04:25 AM

Can anyone please give me their view on the Martin Classical guitar (i.e. nylon strung)? I've recently started learning to play nylon-strung guitar, and will eventually need a better model than the lovely old war house I have (it's a hand-made UK model, the only identifier being a label saying J.E.Vickers, 1966. Any information welcome!!). I fancy the idea of a Martin nylon-strung 'cos that's the kind Willie Nelson plays - sorry, that's the extent of my argument!

Cheers

Norman

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: breezy
Date: 07 Nov 05 - 04:30 AM

Norman make guitars Totnes way

Bye

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: Midchuck
Date: 07 Nov 05 - 08:53 AM

For all Kendall's talk about his Taylor, he actually bought Jacqui a 000-16SGT.

And I'm told she has a hard time getting to play it.

Tee Hee.

Peter.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: kendall
Date: 07 Nov 05 - 02:56 PM

Actually, the hard time comes from the typical action of the Martin, and the ONLY reason we bought the Martin 000 was because my Taylor is too big for her. Shut up Spaw.

Subject: RE: Why are Martin Guitars so expensive?
From: Midchuck
Date: 07 Nov 05 - 03:11 PM

Well, we'd best get Jacqui some nut files....HAW!

P.