Lyr Req: Hard Hard Times (Eric Bogle)

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Hard Hard Times (Eric Bogle)
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 14 Oct 07 - 02:18 PM

CeltArctic, the song certainly would have meaning to many 'First Nations' people. The helplessness of the boxed is clearly expressed.

One can see and feel its meaning on certain streets in Edmonton, Winnipeg and Vancouver, and the small towns near hard-scrabble reservations.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Hard Hard Times (Eric Bogle)
From: CeltArctic
Date: 13 Oct 07 - 08:38 PM

Just a quick update - We sang the complete version of the song at a Suicide Prevention Conference. It went over well. No one got up and stormed out in disgust, so I think it's safe to say it didn't offend. I could see many people connecting with the lyrics, especially a few First Nations people.

Thanks again,

Moira

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Hard Hard Times (Eric Bogle)
From: Rowan
Date: 01 Oct 07 - 07:22 PM

McGrath may be on the money in his musing, but Eric has also been known to change various of his songs over the years for a variety of reasons. And why not?

Without going into textual details, The band played Waltzing Matilda is one that he and others have changed several times since the first time I heard him sing it. He'd written it in 1973 and entered it in the songwriting competition at the 1974 National (Easter, at Brisbane); it was judged "Second place". Nobody can now recall anything about what had got First prize, because Eric's song took the place by storm when he sang it at the main concert.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Hard Hard Times (Eric Bogle)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Sep 07 - 09:25 PM

Sometimes less is more. I suspect that Eric may have found the song worked better with the first two verses blended like that to give a three verse song. Plus it makes it more directly applicable to other settigs as well, as CeltArctic indicated just there.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Hard Hard Times (Eric Bogle)
From: CeltArctic
Date: 30 Sep 07 - 02:25 PM

It's a good point that the lyrics of that one verse may be deemed as demeaning - It certainly would not be the first time Bogle's intent is misunderstood. However, I find the verse in question an accurate, if controversial, description.

A group I sing with is thinking of performing this song. I live in Canada's North, in a territory where Aboriginal and First Nations people, though the majority in most communities, are living in terrible conditions - certainly worse off that most Southern white people's pets.

I only just heard the song recently, but my first impression, apart from amazement at how well it applies to Northern Canada, was that it's message is a severe criticism of White man's policies of assimilation. We, as white people, have to learn to understand how it feels to have one's culture, language, and lifestyle forcibly eliminated and replaced with another's. I think Bogle captures that feeling rather well with that discriptive verse.

Moira

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Hard Hard Times (Eric Bogle)
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 30 Sep 07 - 12:01 PM

The lyrics in mysongbook.de are what Eric sang live at the Tonder Festival back in 1991. I only have this (not very good) bootleg on tape. Claire's suggestion that and why he changed the lyrics later on may well be correct; I don't know.

Finding the Australian tribal names wasn't easy (I haven't tried again recently). I found Pitjantjatjara, Aranda and Gurindji, leaving me with the problem that the first is far too long for what Eric sings on my tape. Maybe he shortened it somewhat for fitting into the song.

*Spirits* in verse 3 certainly makes more sense than what I heard, so thanks for your help!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Hard Hard Times (Eric Bogle)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Sep 07 - 08:32 PM

Here's the Wikipedia attempt to pin down what Dreamtime means, with lots of useful links.

Subject: Lyr Add: HARD HARD TIMES (Eric Bogle)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 29 Sep 07 - 06:52 PM

Here's the version from The Eric Bogle Songbook (undated), which is the same as what I hear on Bogle's 1993 CD, When the Wind Blows. It's almost the same as what Susanne has in mysongbook.de. Susanne has a couple of interesting differences - in the two places I italicized, her transcription sounds closer to what I hear on the CD.


Hard Hard Times
(Eric Bogle)

Poor Jacky's on the street with his bottle of grog
Hard hard times
He'll try and bite you for a couple of bob
Hard hard times
His Dreamtime people run wild and free
Pinjara, Arunda and Gurinji (Aboriginal tribes)
But the Dreamtime's finished and so is he
Hard hard times

CHORUS
It's hard times living in the lucky country
Hard hard times
Black man say, "Poor fella my country"
Hard hard times

Poor Jacky's a stranger in his own land
Hard hard times
Livin in a world he can't understand
Hard hard times
Wrecked and drowning in a sea of grog
His pride and self-respect's been robbed
Worse off than a white man's dog
Hard hard times

CHORUS

The spirits have fled from the rocks and trees
Hard hard times
The land is sick from white man's disease
Hard hard times
The lust and greed does them betray
They rape the land to make it pay
The black man just got in their way
Hard hard times

CHORUS

The black man's Dreamtime's dead and gone
Hard hard times
The white man's Dreamtime marches on
Hard hard times
They try to make you civilized
They just don't seem to realize
What they touch, they bastardize
Hard hard times

CHORUS

What's the term "Dreamtime" mean in this context? Bogle uses it in at least one other song.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Hard Hard Times (Eric Bogle)
From: ClaireBear
Date: 29 Sep 07 - 05:34 PM

You may well be right, Jim, but I've never thought of the lines I quoted that way. I don't think "can't understand" means lacking the intellect or sophistication to understand, I think it means living in a way that is so different that there's no frame of reference.

Anyway, that being said, I've never sung the song precisely because I think the whole song is, if not demeaning, at least inappropriate as entertainment, especially outside Australia.

Claire

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Hard Hard Times (Eric Bogle)
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 29 Sep 07 - 05:17 PM

If you're planning to sing this song, I recommend you sing it exactly as it appears at Bogle's web site. No doubt that's the version he prefers now, although he may have recorded it differently in the past.

I suspect he deliberately deleted the "strong lines" you are referring to because they are--to put it bluntly--demeaning.

Think of it this way: How would you like it if someone said of you that you were "finished" and that you were living in a world you couldn't understand?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Hard Hard Times (Eric Bogle)
From: ClaireBear
Date: 28 Sep 07 - 03:53 PM

There are a couple more very strong lines that aren't posted above but are in the "My Songbook" version, and I recall hearing those lines in the Bogle version I used to have on vinyl. Did Eric record two different versions of this song?

Those lines are:

His dreamtime people run wild and free
Pitjanjara, Aranda and Gurindji
But the dreamtime's finished and so is he
Hard hard times

Poor Jackie's a stranger in his own land
Hard hard times
Living in a world he can't understand
Hard hard times


The first part is the second half of a verse, and the second part is a first half. The whole song is reshuffled a bit.

Claire

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Hard Hard Times (Eric Bogle)
From: CeltArctic
Date: 28 Sep 07 - 03:39 PM

Thanks everyone - Much appreciated!

Moira

Subject: Lyr Add: HARD, HARD TIMES (Eric Bogle)
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 24 Sep 07 - 09:51 PM

Lyrics copied from Eric Bogle's web site--seen Gnomad's link above.

This version has one less verse than the one at MySongbook.de, but I suspect that's because Bogle deliberately discarded one of his original verses.

HARD, HARD TIMES
(Eric Bogle)

Poor Jacky's on the street with his bottle of grog.
    Hard, hard times.
He'll try and bite you for a couple of bob.
    Hard, hard times.
Wrecked and drowning in a sea of grog,
His pride and self-respect's been robbed,
Worse off than a white man's dog,
    Hard, hard times.

CHORUS: And it's hard times livin' in the lucky country,
    Hard, hard times.
Black man say, "Poor fella, my country".
    Hard, hard times.

The spirits have fled from the rocks and trees,
    Hard, hard times,
The land is sick from white man's disease,
    Hard, hard times.
Their lust and greed does them betray.
They rape the land to make it pay.
The black man just got in their way,
    Hard, hard times.

The black man's dreamtime's dead and gone,
    Hard, hard times.
The white man's dreamtime marches on,
    Hard, hard times.
They tried to make you civilized.
They just don't seem to realise
What they touch they bastardise,
    Hard, hard times.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Hard Hard Times (Eric Bogle)
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 23 Sep 07 - 06:32 PM

If they're not in the DT, try My Songbook

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Hard Hard Times (Eric Bogle)
From: gnomad
Date: 23 Sep 07 - 06:31 PM

E Bogle website has this one, among many other good songs, in PDF form.

Subject: Lyr Req: Hard Hard Times (Eric Bogle)
From: CeltArctic
Date: 23 Sep 07 - 06:13 PM

I was doing a search of these lyrics and was not able to find them. I saw the song title referred to once, but no lyrics.

It's Eric Bogle's song about Aboriginies.

Anyone have the lyrics handy?

Moira