BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 27 Aug 16 - 10:26 AM

visualize an end game to the Mideast problem

More like a final solution I'd say but it's no mystery why Shaw would support it.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Aug 16 - 10:30 AM

You really are insane, aren't you?

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Teribus
Date: 27 Aug 16 - 12:11 PM

Steve Shaw - 27 Aug 16 - 07:12 AM


1: "Yes they matter. I don't know where you get the idea from that I defend to the hilt what happens in Islamic states." I don't. I hate it."

Odd then that you only ever go into print to condemn Israel - Never Hamas, Fatah, Hezbollah or their supporters. Gives a very good indication of just how much you hate it doesn't it.

2: "The discrimination I have pointed to in Israel is perfectly deliberate."

Let's go through them shall we?:

The wall was built deliberately.

The road blocks are not accidental

The prisons and justice system are doing what they do by design.

The school buses don't miss the Arab towns out because the satnav maps are out of date.

Now what did I say the primary duty and responsibility of the Israeli Government was again? Oh yes, it was to ensure the safety and security of Israel and the population of Israel irrespective of race, or religion. ALL of the above were security measures brought in to protect the population of Israel and guess what Shaw - it worked.

3: "If those things happened to you you'd go mental."

Now how on earth would, or could, such things happen to me Shaw? After all I do not support those who seek the destruction of any of my neighbours.

4: "or you're defending them because you think that Arabs as a race deserve all they get, innocent or guilty. Which is it to be?

I defend the right of the Israeli Government to implement whatever measures they see fit to protect their population, as our own Government did when faced with the same situation:

We built walls to separate communities
We set up road-blocks and checkpoints
We adopted the use of internment and non-jury trials previously employed in the Irish Republic to counter a terrorist threat.
Vulnerable and precious cargoes were diverted along the safest routes.

Another anomaly Shaw, perhaps just an oversight in your haste to pour condemnation on the Israeli Government, while always failing to cast any blame whatsoever on her enemies, the Israelis are not the only ones to have built barriers, set up road-blocks and checkpoints, set up special judicial measures and used convoy systems and special routes are they? Hamas' only other neighbour, Egypt has done exactly the same along it's border with Gaza - Now why is that Shaw?

Donuel - 27 Aug 16 - 08:37 AM

"Teribus dared to put words in my mouth by decreeing I said something I did not say."

Now what words have I put into your mouth Donuel?

Donuel - 26 Aug 16 - 10:43 AM

"The current right wing Israel is far apart from that end game Steve."

Those were your words that I faithfully quoted and commented as follows:

"Be interested in hearing the rational behind that statement. As far as their track record shows, the Israelis are more than ready to talk to anyone, and when such talks have taken place the agreements reached have stood the test of time. The same however can not be said of those who make up the Palestinian Authority {Their former leader Arafat threw away the best chance they ever had in 2000}, Hamas and Hezbollah. The last two have ruled out any prospect of talks or negotiation, yet as far as you can see it Donuel it would appear that you only see the fault as being only on the side of the Israelis."

Not surprised at all that you will not address points put directly to you - propaganda indeed!!

But when it comes to truth you are rather good at apportioning blame where it doesn't belong are you. Not too shy at smearing the name of the innocent in doing so either. If memory serves me correctly you went into print on this very forum to blacken the name of John McCain, blaming him for the deck fire that occurred on the USS Forrestal in 1967. You persisted in the accusation never admitting your error even when it was pointed out to you that the rocket that caused the fire was accidentally discharged from a wing pod of a Phantom F-4B of VF-11 positioned on the aft deck, John McCain did not fly Phantoms he flew Douglas A-4 Skyhawks - So it should not come as any surprise to you at all that I regard anything you contribute with the greatest scepticism.

Liked the "Shaw being the only one courageous enough to offer a solution" - What Shaw did was to offer a recipe for disaster.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 27 Aug 16 - 12:50 PM

You really are insane, aren't you?

Not nearly as insane as someone who believes that making the Jews a minority in their own country, a minority to a majority of Arab Muslims, is a solution to anything in the Middle East.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Aug 16 - 12:52 PM

And it's taken you all afternoon to come up with that denialist garbage.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Greg F.
Date: 27 Aug 16 - 01:16 PM

The REAL question is, what's the final solution to idiots like YOU, Bubo?

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Aug 16 - 06:23 PM

My last post was directed at Teribus.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Aug 16 - 07:54 PM

Isn't it interesting that those of us who recoil in horror at the brutality of the Holocaust, who would have Holocaust deniers thrown into jail, who support heartily the right of the people of Israel, Jews and non-Jews alike, to live in peace, prosperity and security, who condemn outright the idiots who say they want Israel wiped off the map and who detest the very idea that any state can be "Islamic," can be subjected on this forum to invective from a brainless bigot who tosses around so carelessly and inappropriately phrases such as "final solution." That isn't just bad taste. That is hate speech. I can't possibly take offence at the ramblings and snipings of a cheating, small-minded and very likely drugged idiot such as bobad, but what a shame that the mods here, who are probably ignoring this thread hoping that we'll drown in our own cesspit, allow this stuff to go unpunished, thereby dragging this forum into disrepute. And, by the way, all the points made in my first sentence apply to me, and have all been made by me at least several times, and often many times, on this forum. I dare say they all apply to everyone else here too. Disagree with a single one of them and I'll take you on.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Aug 16 - 04:10 AM

Western media are overwhelmingly on Israel's side, twerp.

That is only true to the extent that Liberal Western Democracies are all on friendly terms with Israel.
That is because they are well informed and know that all that shit you accuse them of is just lying propanda.
If they were really guilty of atrocities, not having any valuable strategic resources, they would be shunned.

Most days for the last five years Syria has committed atrocities against civilians and children that dwarf anything Israel has even been accused of, so why always and only criticise Israel Steve?

Most countries in the region have a much worse human rights record than Israel, so why always and only criticise Israel Steve?

Why do you judge the only Jewish state by different standards than all its neighbours Steve?
By the EUMC definitions, which Labour seems to be working to, that is antisemitic.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Aug 16 - 05:23 AM

Absolute denialist drivel. Every single point you ignorantly raise in that post has been comprehensively dealt with ad nauseam, most of it done to death in this thread alone.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Aug 16 - 06:11 AM

Every government in the world (except Israel's😂) regards the Israeli settlements as illegal under international law. They also contravene several UN resolutions, which Israel simply ignores. The main reason we have this facade of "friendly relations" with Israel is the disproportionate influence of the pro-Israel lobby, notably the incredibly undemocratic one in the US, the nation which leads the world in nurturing those "friendly relations." No US politician who values his career dares brief against Israel. Bibi and Obama don't get on and Obama doesn't care for those settlements. So when Obama is visiting Israel, Bibi embarrasses him by pointedly announcing new settlements. But Obama knows that he's toast if he utters anything more that the mildest rebuke. Yep, that's how you run those "friendly relations" all right! And yes, Keith, these things have really happened!

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Aug 16 - 08:15 AM

steve,
Every government in the world (except Israel's😂) regards the Israeli settlements as illegal under international law.

Never tested in court. Israel may well be right.

They also contravene several UN resolutions,

Only General Council resolutions, where anti-western, anti democratic states have a built in majority. Of course they should be ignored.

Absolute denialist drivel.

It is you who are in denial Steve.
You deny that Shah's comments were antisemitic.
That is contradicted by Labour's leadership including Corbyn himself and the NEC, Shah herself once her ignorance of the facts and issues was dispelled, and indeed by the other Parties.

Your definition of antisemitism is clearly inadequate and perverse, yet you expect it to receive serious consideration in this discussion!
Absolute denialist drivel!

The definition everyone else has adopted seems to be a version of the EUMC definition, and probably those exact definitions.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 28 Aug 16 - 08:20 AM

Israeli settlements as illegal under international law.

Please tell us what is the legal status of Judea and Samaria, aka the West Bank, under international law.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Aug 16 - 08:40 AM

Occupied.

You are posting nonsense every time, Keith. "Not tested in court" my arse. Name your court. Right to ignore the UN (i.e., cherrypick the policies that suit you and ignore the rest, to be more accurate) my arse. Of course, the US, Israel's big western poodle, hates the UN. It wants to be able to stick its interfering nose into affairs the world over untrammelled. Hates paying its UN dues, too, and briefs against it when it's not actually vetoing resolutions that everyone else agrees with.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 28 Aug 16 - 08:50 AM

Occupied   

Wrong:   Crimea, International Law, and the West Bank

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Aug 16 - 09:18 AM

Steve, Much as I enjoy our discussions about Israel, I am here to discuss the Labour Party.

I do query this statement of yours.
The main reason we have this facade of "friendly relations" with Israel is the disproportionate influence of the pro-Israel lobby,?

Lobbyists can be ignored.
What clout do lobbyists for Israel have over lobbyists for the Palestinians?

Is it not just that Palestinian lobbyists spout propagnanda which carries no influence with well informed Western governments, while Israel's side of the story can be substantiated?

If Israel was guilty of atrocities no-one would give their lobbyists the time of day.
Israel has no oil or strategic reserves to buy friends. The friendship of democratic governments is genuine.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Aug 16 - 09:39 AM

Well, booboo, here's me suspecting that you didn't really understand that labyrinthine treatise on technicalities. The two situations, in human being terms, have got very little in common. For a start, almost all the citizens of Crimea would much rather be part of Russia. And you have to think that yer man may not be entirely reliable, going from his last sentence:

"In the end, as has been the case since 1948, Israel will have to rely on itself."

Very funny. Nothing to do with three billion a year in military aid from a US that's in the cast iron grip of its pro-Israel lobby then. And Keith, are you really trying to assert that AIPAC and their dodgy acolytes are all sweetness and democratic light? Come off it. Along with the big corporations they control their politicians pretty well They daren't say boo to a goose.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 28 Aug 16 - 10:10 AM

I see the article went completely over your little head so allow me to summarize it for you:

The borders of what constitutes the state of Israel today ie. the territory east of the river Jordan to the Mediterranean Sea were established by the League of Nations in 1922 and nothing that has happened since has legally modified these frontiers.

We continue to hear the term "illegal", but "legal and illegal" has to be more that political desires and interests. It has to refer to law.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 28 Aug 16 - 10:13 AM

Correction: that should read: the territory west of the river Jordan to the Mediterranean Sea

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Teribus
Date: 28 Aug 16 - 10:38 AM

Steve Shaw - 28 Aug 16 - 06:11 AM

"Every government in the world (except Israel's😂) regards the Israeli settlements as illegal under international law. They also contravene several UN resolutions, which Israel simply ignores."

Another baseless assertion from Steve Shaw.

1: "the Israeli settlements as illegal under international law"

C'mon then Shaw give us chapter and verse on what international statute or law is being broken. If you cannot then please have the integrity and honesty to admit that you cannot and then shut up about it.

2: "They also contravene several UN resolutions"

What UN Resolutions of Council are the Israelis contravening by ignoring? If you cannot detail them, or even describe them honestly then once again shut up about them.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Teribus
Date: 28 Aug 16 - 11:20 AM

by the way Shaw the only people who have ever illegally "occupied" land in Palestine were the Jordanians (East Jerusalem & the West Bank - invaded and occupied in 1948) and the Egyptians (Gaza - invaded and occupied in 1948). All were returned to the former mandate of Palestine in 1967 when Israeli forces drove out the occupying forces.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Aug 16 - 12:03 PM

Nothing to do with three billion a year in military aid from a US that's in the cast iron grip of its pro-Israel lobby then.

You make my point that Israel is a basket case, dependent on US aid.
It can not buy friends and its lobbyists have no leverage over anyone, except that they tell the truth and the other side lies.

If they or their lobbyists have any other leverage over sovereign governments Steve, please tell us what it is, then we can get back to the Labour Party.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Aug 16 - 12:38 PM

Have things to do. In haste. Bobad, you condescendingly presume to summarise the piece for me. Well let me gently point out to you that the article was comparing the situation in Israel with the situation in Crimea. That was the WHOLE POINT of the damn thing. Your "summary" didn't even mention Crimea! I mean, whose head did it really go over? 😂😂😂

Teribus, go and look it up. Likewise, Keith. What a bunch of jokers you lot are. Must dash.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 Aug 16 - 12:59 PM

Israel is a basket case with or without U.S. aid, Professor.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Aug 16 - 02:18 PM

It is a tiny sliver of a country that has had to exist under constant threat of attack from its powerful surrounding neighbours supported by a superpower.
For a basket case it has done pretty well so far.

Steve, if the "US that's in the cast iron grip of its pro-Israel lobby" please tell us what leverage Israel's lobbyists have that prevents them being dismissed as just another lobbying group.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 Aug 16 - 02:35 PM

under constant threat of attack from its powerful surrounding neighbours

Kinda like the women & children & innocent civilians in Gaza and the Occupied Territories, you mean?.

Israel has, thru right-wing, fundamentalist intransigence & bull-headedness, had a large hand in creating the bed it currently has to lie in, Professor.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Aug 16 - 04:12 PM

Kinda like the women & children & innocent civilians in Gaza and the Occupied Territories, you mean?.

No. Like the huge national armies of its neighbours, armed and trained by the Soviets.
The regime in Gaza attempts atrocities against Israeli civilians from civilian occupied areas so that any retaliation inevitably kills "the women & children & innocent civilians in Gaza."

This thread is about the UK Labour Party not the Middle East.
Any views on the antisemitism polluting the Left of the Party?

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 Aug 16 - 05:09 PM

Any views on the antisemitism polluting the Left of the Labor Party?

Views? Sure do. Your accusation is utter bullshit, and you are a serial bullshitter, Professor.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Aug 16 - 05:13 PM

Lies and more lies from our resident liar in chief.

Get over yourself apropos of "Labour antisemitism," Keith. A few idiots spoke ignorantly and none of them are antisemites. The Labour Party is full of people who fight racism in all its forms, hundreds of times more of them than the few silly buggers that you're obsesses with. Hundreds of times more members of Labour Friends Of Israel. That's more than can be said for the piccaninny-lovers in your lot, not to speak of their shabby history of racism. Enoch Powell was one of yours and he'd be right with you now. Smethwick too, yeah? "If you want a nigger for a neighbour, vote Labour." Who the hell are you to preach to anyone about racism with your sorry affiliations? Move on. Everyone else has. It's over. A few idiots. We know that. No institutional antisemitism. You hate Labour and you hate that. Tough shit. You're yesterday's man on this, along with most other things you post about.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 28 Aug 16 - 10:22 PM

Here's one passionate leftist and liberal who won't be voting for Jeremy Corbyn and he doesn't mind telling you why: Why you shouldn't vote for Jeremy Corbyn

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Aug 16 - 05:09 AM

Greg,
Your accusation is utter bullshit,

I have made no accusation.
The accusations all came from within the Labour Party.
Does that make them, "serial bullshitters" Greg?

Steve,
Get over yourself apropos of "Labour antisemitism," Keith. A few idiots spoke ignorantly and none of them are antisemites.

Again you show yourself blind to antisemitism Steve. Your definition is clearly flawed and perverse.
Sadiq Khan could see it, but you can't.
You could not see the antisemitism in Shah's comments, but the leadership including Corbyn and the NEC could, other Parties could, and Shah herself could when her ignorance of the facts and issues was corrected.

" your lot," "one of yours," " your sorry affiliations," "You hate Labour and you hate that."

I do not hate Labour and was a Labour voter when Blair was leader.
I have no "lot" or "affiliations," so please drop the personal stuff.

You wildly asserted that the US is "in the cast iron grip of its pro-Israel lobby."
What is the nature of that cast iron grip Steve?
They are just another lobby group (though it is a popular cause).

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Aug 16 - 08:15 AM

Utter denial. Popular cause my arse. Sinister, ruthless, undemocratic. And before Booboo butts in with his Jew hater nonsense, the pro-Israel AIPAC mafia are by no means all Jews.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 29 Aug 16 - 08:31 AM

the pro-Israel AIPAC mafia

Where have we heard that before? Oh yeah:

Rik Little: If I can I stay away from preloaded titles like Jew. It wastes too much time arguing with idiots. I say Zionists or AIPAC worshipers.
13 hrs

David Blomstrom: The problem is that "Zionist" doesn't include Jewish bankers, the Jews who control the media, etc. A better term is actually "Jewish Mafia," but I still often use "Jews" simply because the Jewish Mafia is so big.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Aug 16 - 09:44 AM

OK Steve, so tell us, if it is true, how Israel lobbyists exert "a cast iron grip" on the US when other lobbyists can just be dismissed.
That was your assertion.
Just for once, justify your claim.

Your latest assertion, that the cause is not even popular, makes it even harder to believe.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Aug 16 - 06:59 PM

I said nothing about AIPAC worshippers or a Jewish mafia. Do your homework. AIPAC is the main player in the US pro-Israel lobby. AIPAC contains many members who are not Jews. I call it the pro-Israel lobby because it is pro the Israeli regime. I do not call it the Jewish lobby and never have, and if you look hard enough you will find posts of mine on this board that admonish people for using that term. That is not because I'm avoiding anything. It is because pro-Israel lobby is an accurate term, whereas Jewish lobby is wide of the mark. It implies support of an ethnic group by fellow members of that group, which is incorrect on both counts. It is a political lobby, nothing to do with ethnicity. I am very pleased to be able to explain this to you, bobad. Now go and check it all out for yourself for once. As for you, Keith, the pro-Israel lobby in the US is right up there with the big corporations and the NRA in terms of undue influence on politics. Quite simply, in the US the shrewd politician does not brief against Israel unless he wants to lose his influence at best or his job at worst. Now when I say undemocratic, the electorate do not vote in the polling booths for AIPAC, the NRA or for big oil companies. Yet no politician would dare suggest banning gun ownership to save lives, putting two dollars per gallon on gas prices to pay for environmental damage or making military aid to Israel conditional on taking part in genuine peace talks with compromise to the fore. It isn't done and it can't be done. Israel never has to give one inch, and it's almost all because of the power of that lobby in the US. Get real, Keith. You'll deny yourself to death one of these days. Come into the real world.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Greg F.
Date: 29 Aug 16 - 09:40 PM

Hear, Hear!

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Aug 16 - 04:11 AM

Steve,
. Quite simply, in the US the shrewd politician does not brief against Israel unless he wants to lose his influence at best or his job at worst.

How does the Israel lobby exert such influence?
What has it got that lobbyists for others, e.g. the Palestinians, have not got?
Nothing but a popular cause.

Now, your definition of antisemitism leaves you blind to the real examples of it we have discussed.
It is your denial of that antisemitism, recognised by everyone else, that has kept this thread alive months after it faded from the news.
You repeatedly claimed that the EUMC definitions were discredited, whereas it is yours that are invalid.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Aug 16 - 04:30 AM

"How does the Israel lobby exert such influence?"
Keith - you've told us six times on this thread that "This is not about Israel"
Unless it suits you, it seems
Personally, as a non Christian, Jew or Muslim - I find Keith's and Bobad's Islamophobic rantings (particularly Bobad's. on the other Labour thread), every bit as hate-filled as anything the Nazis ever managed to come up with.
It is extreme Anti-humanity directed at Muslims rather than Jews and is just as lethal to those it is aimed at.
Israel is gradually arriving at the Nazi figures reached by the Holocaust, though it is taking longer to get there.
A curse on all hate-filled religious bigotry, no matter what denomination is used as an excuse.
Want thos facts about chemical warfare against the gazans and Bedoiuins again Keith
Plenty more where they came from.
Scumbags all
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 30 Aug 16 - 08:27 AM

"Between 1939 and 1945," writes Joseph Telushkin in the Tablet, an online magazine, "one-third of the Jewish people in the world were murdered. That was genocide. And since Israel took control of the West Bank and Gaza in 1967 [as a result of a] war of self-defense, the Arab population in these two areas has gone from just over a million to 4 million. That is not genocide. It's a population explosion."

Facts are stubborn and persistent, but so are those who deny, manipulate and abuse them. Black Lives Matter, in protesting the shooting of young black men by police (and in the case of one or two of the young black men, they were asking for it) was a positive thing, but the movement now is trying to turn the rage against injustice to destructive rage against Israel. It's an old phenomenon. Blame the Jews: They're rich (most of them own department stores) and live the life of Riley, so why not?

Until now the Jew-baiters tried to camouflage their game, being careful to say they weren't talking about the Jews, just the Zionists, the Jews who wanted to build and protect a Jewish homeland. When a black student at Harvard tried this line on Martin Luther King, he was having none of it. "When people criticize Zionists," he told him, "they mean Jews. You're talking anti-Semitism."

Black Lives Matter and the endless war against the Jews

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 30 Aug 16 - 08:34 AM

Islamophobic rantings (particularly Bobad's. on the other Labour thread)

You really are going insane aren't you!

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Greg F.
Date: 30 Aug 16 - 08:52 AM

Bubo, attempting to label the Black Lives Matter movement with antisemitism is even more disgusting that your usual vomit.

Wesley Pruden is a neo-Confederate racist, and his spew has consistently anti-Black since he first signed on with Sun Myung Moon.

Not surprising that you would have the same twisted view that he does.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 30 Aug 16 - 09:19 AM

The Black Rights Movement is glaringly anti-Semitic, take your blinders off.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Greg F.
Date: 30 Aug 16 - 10:09 AM

Bubo, your boy Pruden is a disgusting piece of work. His opinion piece cites no facts, no evidence and is a smear on Black Lives Matter - just the sort of tactics you revel in.

From the article you reference (emphasis mine):

Black Lives Matter, in protesting the shooting of young black men by police (and in the case of one or two of the young black men, they were asking for it)

I don't know which of you is the larger sack of crap.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 30 Aug 16 - 05:18 PM

The Black Rights Movement is glaringly anti-Semitic, take your blinders off.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Greg F.
Date: 30 Aug 16 - 07:13 PM

Bubo, you really ARE two years old! You think that saying things over and over makes them true! Still no facts presented, just your own plus Pruden's bullshit.

True to form. And now I'm done with you,asshole.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Aug 16 - 08:12 PM

Jaysus, Greg, this thread is beyond tedious. Two clueless bigots, both yesterday's men (are they actually men??), getting more and more desperate. Ask yourself whether they're worth it. Are we mad or what! 😂

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 30 Aug 16 - 09:59 PM

African American leaders who represent over 9 million people have rejected the anti-Israel stance of the Movement for Black Lives, which supports the BDS Movement while accusing Israel of being an apartheid state and committing genocide against the Palestinian people.

JOL

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 31 Aug 16 - 03:38 AM

Steve, you have made wild claims and assertions, and as usual fall silent when asked to substantiate.

How does the Israel lobby exert such influence?
What has it got that lobbyists for others, e.g. the Palestinians, have not got?
Nothing but a popular cause.

Now, your definition of antisemitism leaves you blind to the real examples of it we have discussed.
It is your denial of that antisemitism, recognised by everyone else, that has kept this thread alive months after it faded from the news.
You repeatedly claimed that the EUMC definitions were discredited, whereas it is yours that are invalid.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 31 Aug 16 - 03:38 AM

"You really are going insane aren't you!"
I should read your own Islamophobic rants if I were you.
You are saying about Muslims exactly what the Nazis said about the Jews to give themselves an excuse to exterminate them - the only difference being the ethnicity of the victims.
You have no interest in the well-being of the Jewish People - you wouldn't have painted targets on them by equating them with Israeli State terrorism if you had.
Your support is for the policies of a regime that has been compared, by Jews and non Jews, with that of the Nazis - a policy of mass murder, of attempted ethnic cleansing, of land grabbing and mass destruction of homes, schools, hospitals..... and worst of all, a war against impoverished civilians on a massive scale.
That is not "Jewish" - not by the standards of the Jews I count among my friends.
You come onto this forum in your cowardly anonymity and accuse everyone who criticises the monotheistic policy of the Israeli regime of being "Antisemitic", yet your own attitude of blaming the Jews for the war crimes being committed by the sadistic crowd running Israel is as Antisemitic as it comes.
The Jewish people are not responsible for the land-grabbing or the massacres, or the murderous incursions.... the Israeli regime is.
If you can't recognise that describing opponents of extreme right wing policies of being either "Antisemites" or "Self-hating Jews" is evil and dangerous - you are a vicious, stupid man.
If you don't recognise that your massive rants against Muslims as a whole, against their culture, their religion, their way of life, is raw racist bigotry no different than that directed at the Jewish people - you are a very dangerous man.
Go read the hate-filled diatribes you hae trawled up from extremist sites, then compare them to the similar things that were being said about the Jewish People in 1930s Germany - there really is no difference, apart from the people they are aimed at - then it was The Jews, now it is the Muslims.
You really should be ashamed of yourself - particularly if you come from a Jewish background
When the Holocaust survivor family I knew in Manchester back in the 60s told me "Never again, not to anybody", you were exactly the type of person they had in mind.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 31 Aug 16 - 08:42 AM

"The Western world must support Israel; the ONLY free and democratic country in the Middle East. The Western world must support groups that follow secular enlightenment values, and must openly condemn those leaders and groups that do not.

I support Israel and condemn her enemies; the enemies of humanity and freedom; the enemies such as Hamas, Fatah, Hezbollah, Islamic Republic of Iran, the dictatorship regimes of Syria and Turkey, The Arab League, including Saudi Arabia, Al Qaeda and ISIS. If we let Israel succumb to their forces, it will be a disaster for the rest of the western world.

I support Israel because it is a free and democratic state; a true Liberal state where 30% of its population is atheist, far more than the secular Ireland. In Israel you can freely change your religion or go to the ONLY nude beach in the Middle East without being harassed by police. Israelis had another successful Gay Pride Parade which took place in Tel Aviv in June and was voted BEST gay city in the world in 2011! I am sure some supporters of the Palestinian and Iranian regimes would like to tell the world when next gay pride parade under their sharia law will take place ?

That which comes out of Israel is kind, humanitarian, hopeful. This canary is a beacon of light and a breath of fresh air in an otherwise dark, suffocating, and terrorizing Middle East."

Shabnam Assadollahi: Why I support Israel!