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French folk song - Sur le Pont d'Auvignon

DigiTrad:
ALOUETTE
AUPRES DE MA BLONDE
CHEVALIERS DE LA TABLE RONDE
FRERE JACQUES
LE TEMPS DES CERISES


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mstrang@provide.net 18 Jul 98 - 01:55 PM
Abby Sale 06 Apr 07 - 10:18 AM
GUEST,Mrr on different computer 06 Apr 07 - 10:24 AM
Abby Sale 06 Apr 07 - 10:25 AM
Anglo 06 Apr 07 - 10:52 AM
Amos 06 Apr 07 - 11:23 AM
Abby Sale 06 Apr 07 - 07:11 PM
katlaughing 06 Apr 07 - 07:19 PM
katlaughing 06 Apr 07 - 07:20 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 06 Apr 07 - 08:13 PM
leeneia 07 Apr 07 - 11:23 AM
Abby Sale 07 Apr 07 - 11:31 AM
Q (Frank Staplin) 07 Apr 07 - 01:19 PM
katlaughing 07 Apr 07 - 01:52 PM
katlaughing 07 Apr 07 - 02:20 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 07 Apr 07 - 02:28 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 07 Apr 07 - 02:44 PM
Abby Sale 07 Apr 07 - 04:07 PM
katlaughing 07 Apr 07 - 04:18 PM
Snuffy 10 Apr 07 - 09:18 AM
Q (Frank Staplin) 10 Apr 07 - 02:39 PM
GUEST 27 Mar 12 - 03:30 PM
GUEST,leeneia 28 Mar 12 - 01:59 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 28 Mar 12 - 07:07 PM
Tattie Bogle 28 Mar 12 - 08:26 PM
Monique 29 Mar 12 - 03:17 AM
Q (Frank Staplin) 29 Mar 12 - 04:20 PM
Monique 29 Mar 12 - 05:51 PM
MGM·Lion 30 Mar 12 - 01:45 AM
Monique 30 Mar 12 - 03:37 AM
MGM·Lion 30 Mar 12 - 04:40 AM
Q (Frank Staplin) 30 Mar 12 - 03:21 PM
MGM·Lion 31 Mar 12 - 12:01 AM
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Subject: French folk song
From: mstrang@provide.net
Date: 18 Jul 98 - 01:55 PM

I am looking for information on a song which I think is called "Sur le Pont d'Auvignon". I am wondering how old this song is. It is about dancing on the bridge at d'Auvignon. I don't know if I have the complete song or not but here is what I know. (Please forgive any spelling errors; I'm just beginning to learn French).

    Sur le pont d'Auvignon
    l'on y danse
    l'on y danse
    sur le pont d'Auvignon
    l'on y danse
    tout en rond

    Les monsieurs danse comme çi
    et puis encore, comme ça

    (repeat chorus)

    Les dames danse comme çi
    et puis encore, comme ça

    (repeat chorus)

If anyone has any additional information about this song, I would be much obliged if they'd e-mail me.

Marie-Bernadette


Lyrics in this thread


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Subject: RE: French folk song
From: Abby Sale
Date: 06 Apr 07 - 10:18 AM

Although I have a doubt or two that mstrang@provide.net is still logging on daily and waiting for an answer, it's a good question.

Wiki gives at: Clicky

The song was originally composed by the 16th century composer Pierre Certon, though with a very different melody to its present version and under the more accurate title of "Sus (sic) le Pont d'Avignon". The modern version only dates from the mid-19th century, when Adolphe Adam included it in an 1853 operetta entitled l'Auberge Pleine. It was popularised by an 1876 operetta which renamed the song, inaccurately, "Sur le Pont d'Avignon."

According to the article people used to dance under, not on it.


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Subject: RE: French folk song
From: GUEST,Mrr on different computer
Date: 06 Apr 07 - 10:24 AM

Now THAT is fascinating. All my years with them frogs and I never knew that.


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Subject: RE: French folk song
From: Abby Sale
Date: 06 Apr 07 - 10:25 AM

Now, I'm looking for a French folk song site. I'm dead sure there was one. And a good and extensive one, too. Ancient memory claims it was at Universite de Paris.

Today I can't find anything in France at all giving at least lyrics to French trad stuff. I can find Canadian, Cajun and some island things but I'm just looking for France, itself. In French and not Breton. (Of course I have "the Swan.")

Seems surprising it's hard to find.


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Subject: RE: French folk song
From: Anglo
Date: 06 Apr 07 - 10:52 AM

Try this for kids' material:
http://www.momes.net/comptines/index.html

A bunch of tunes here, and some songs:
http://www.tradfrance.com/index.htm

As I recall, there used to be a pretty good site at miditext.com, but that doesn't seem to be there anymore.


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Subject: RE: French folk song
From: Amos
Date: 06 Apr 07 - 11:23 AM

HEre's a good source of French lyrics:

http://www.paroles.net/.


A


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Subject: RE: French folk song
From: Abby Sale
Date: 06 Apr 07 - 07:11 PM

Thanks. Unfortunately those are more cafe things than folk.

Still looking....


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Subject: RE: French folk song
From: katlaughing
Date: 06 Apr 07 - 07:19 PM

Abby, my old bookmark, from the Mudcat, was http://www.momes.net/comptines/ which had a wonderful, extensive collection, BUT I got an error message, just now, when I tried it.

Oh, but wait! I just tried http://www.momes.net/comptines/index.html and found it. Is that the one you meant?


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Subject: RE: French folk song
From: katlaughing
Date: 06 Apr 07 - 07:20 PM

Words and midi on this page.


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Subject: RE: French folk song - Sur le Pont d'Auvignon
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 06 Apr 07 - 08:13 PM

Many threads on this song- perhaps the best is:

Sur le pont


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Subject: RE: French folk song - Sur le Pont d'Auvignon
From: leeneia
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 11:23 AM

"According to the article people used to dance under, not on it."

I have been to Avignon and seen what remains of the bridge. Anyone who "danced" under it would have been doing synchronized swimming, not dancing.

The familiar tune is a fun piece for fretted dulcimer.


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Subject: RE: French folk song - Sur le Pont d'Auvignon
From: Abby Sale
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 11:31 AM

'Fraid not k l but it's best yet. Seems to be children's material only and nothing (that I find) on the background. There is a nice version of Hole in the Bucket, though, "Chère Elise." http://www.momes.net/comptines/eau/chere-elise.html

I am dead sure there was a site at Universite de Paris - much similar to the American Folklife (American Memory) stuff of the time.

I phoned the ref desk which had no link. They, sadly, reminded me that many US folklife departments have been forced to close up shop and just stick their websites in a box somewhere. Perhaps, Stephanie suggested, U Paris had to do the same.


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Subject: RE: French folk song - Sur le Pont d'Auvignon
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 01:19 PM

In Avignon, the bridge is known as Pont St Benezet, named for the shepherd who is supposed to have persuaded the town to build the first one. The first bridge was wood, succeeded by the stone bridge in the 12th c., the 4th arch of which was destryed in 1226. The bridge was surfaced in 1377 by order of Cardinal de Blandiac. Louis XIV ordered restoration (17th c.) but money for the project wasn't approved.

How much of the myths about dancing, etc., is believed depends upon one's credulity.


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Subject: RE: French folk song - Sur le Pont d'Auvignon
From: katlaughing
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 01:52 PM

Darn. I thought that would be it, Abby. You might try the folks at This Forum. I don't read French that well, but it seems a good spot to ask about the site you are looking for.


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Subject: RE: French folk song - Sur le Pont d'Auvignon
From: katlaughing
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 02:20 PM

I know this isn't the one you are thinking of and I think it's only 20th century, but there is Chansons Francais, fwiw.


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Subject: RE: French folk song - Sur le Pont d'Auvignon
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 02:28 PM

Thanks for bringing up the momes.net site with children's material. I thought I had it bookmarked, but it got lost somewhere.

paroles.net has more than 'cafe' material; some 20000 songs and I have found some folk there.

I will look for it. Seems to me it had to do with the Bibliotheque National (spellng?), but not sure.


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Subject: RE: French folk song - Sur le Pont d'Auvignon
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 02:44 PM

http://gallica.bnf.fr- Gallica
Click on Recherche

Includes music, and many hours of sound recordings. Lacking French, I cannot help with navigation.


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Subject: RE: French folk song - Sur le Pont d'Auvignon
From: Abby Sale
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 04:07 PM

Well, the links did lead to a bunch of French sea songs & chanties.
http://bmarcore.club.fr/marins/index-02.html or http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/tr filtered thru bablefish. (the links also get translated.)


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Subject: RE: French folk song - Sur le Pont d'Auvignon
From: katlaughing
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 04:18 PM

You're welcome, Q. I thought I had lost the bookmark, too.

Looks as though you found some other good stuff, Abby.

Thanks,

kat


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Subject: RE: French folk song - Sur le Pont d'Auvignon
From: Snuffy
Date: 10 Apr 07 - 09:18 AM

au dessus = above
au dessous = below


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Subject: RE: French folk song - Sur le Pont d'Auvignon
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 10 Apr 07 - 02:39 PM

Pierre Certon (16th c.) wrote Missa "Sus le pont d'Avignon," a mass, which may be heard on a cd "Cum Jubilo," Choir of St. Ignatius of Antioch (Merit, 1999).

Except for similarity of title, it has nothing to do with the song, which came much later; 1853, Adolphe Adam, in his comic operetta "l'Auberge pleine."

Any dancing would have taken place on Ile de la Barthelasse, where there were open air cafes and picnics were held, 19th c.


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Subject: RE: French folk song - Sur le Pont d'Auvignon nota
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Mar 12 - 03:30 PM


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Subject: RE: French folk song - Sur le Pont d'Auvignon
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 28 Mar 12 - 01:59 PM

The 1853 song is a good tune for mountain dulcimer. You can make the A part fluid and the B part percussive, for variety's sake.


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Subject: RE: French folk song - Sur le Pont d'Auvignon
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 28 Mar 12 - 07:07 PM

Lyr. Add: SUR LE PONT D'AVIGNON
French Canadian, 19th C.

Sur le pont d'Avignon (bis)
Trois dames s'y promènant,
Ma dondaine,
Trois dames s'y promènant,
Ma dondé.

Tout's trois s'y promènant (bis)
Laissent tomber leurs peignes,
Ma dondaine, etc.

Trois Allemands passant (bis)
Ont ramassé les peignes,
Ma dondaine, etc.

-Allemands, Allemands, (bis)
Ah! rendez-moi mon peignes,
Ma dondaine, etc.

-Ton peign' tu n'auras pas (bis)
Qu'tu n'ai' payé mes peines,
Ma dondaine, etc.

-Quel pa-ye-ment veux-tu? (bis)
-Un cheveu de toi, belle,
Ma dondaine. etc.

-Prends-un, prends en deux (bis)
Prends-en trois à ton aise,
Ma dondaine, etc.

Mais ne t'en vante pas: (bis)
Tout garçon qui se vante,
Ma dondaine, etc.

Ou les estime pas (bis)
Car ils ont femme en France,
Ma dondaine, etc.

Et des petits enfants (bis)
Qui vont battre à la grange ,
Ma dondaine,
Qui vont battre à la grange
Ma dondé.

Version fronm area of Rivière-du-Loup. With musical scores.
Other "Pont D'Avignon" songs in Gagnon (1880), e. g., "Hier sur pont d'Avignon," "Sur le pont d'Avignon tout le monde y passe."

Ernest Gagnon, Chansons populaires du Canada, 7th ed., 1880, pp. 94-99.


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Subject: RE: French folk song - Sur le Pont d'Auvignon
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 28 Mar 12 - 08:26 PM

C'est un demi-pont je crois! Voyez les photos! J'aime ça!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2CLFIVtKLA


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Subject: RE: French folk song - Sur le Pont d'Avignon
From: Monique
Date: 29 Mar 12 - 03:17 AM

Translation to Ernest Gagnon's directions that you guys will put in proper English:
"The person who's in the middle of the circle has a blindfold on. The dancers, who form a chain, walk around him/her while singing until s/he fancies to hit the floor with a stick s/he holds. Everybody stops and s/he raises the stick and touches the dancer s/he happens to be in front of with the end of it. If s/he can name the person s/he's just touched, this person removes the blindfold and they swap places; otherwise, the chain resumes its rotating and s/he must do the test again."

"There's another way to do this round. Around the room, the same number of chairs as of dancers minus one are arranged; the person in the middle of the circle doesn't have a blindfold; when s/he hits the floor with the stick, everybody rushes to sit down and who wasn't quick enough to take a seat pays a penalty." Well, it's a version of musical chairs.

Btw, le pont Saint Benezet: Benezet (Beneset) is Occitan for Benedict => St Benedict Bridge.


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Subject: RE: French folk song - Sur le Pont d'Auvignon
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 29 Mar 12 - 04:20 PM

Thanks, Monique. The French directions were simple, but your post will save many of us the trouble of looking through a dictionary.
Is the dance similar in France?


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Subject: RE: French folk song - Sur le Pont d'Auvignon
From: Monique
Date: 29 Mar 12 - 05:51 PM

No, we don't sing the version Gagnon collected, we only have it as a kids'song to sing in a circle game: they walk/skip on a circle and when they say "les beaux messieurs font comme ça" they stop and pretend to draw their hats and bow, about the dames, they cursey. We have more verses on Mama Lisa's World and a photo Lisa took when they visited me a few years ago.


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Subject: RE: French folk song - Sur le Pont d'Auvignon
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 30 Mar 12 - 01:45 AM

The town where the bridge is, is Avignon — no 'u'. It has been consistently misspelt in the thread title, except in Monique's recent post 3 above.

Various places have the designation 'Sur-l'Auvignon', but 'Auvignon' does not appear to be individually wiki-able or to be in my Britannica atlas. Anyone know exactly what sort of geographic location it is?

Anyhow, albeit belatedly, could the thread title be corrected please?

~M~


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Subject: RE: French folk song - Sur le Pont d'Avignon
From: Monique
Date: 30 Mar 12 - 03:37 AM

Auvignon is "the Auvignon", a tiny 55km long river in the South-West, it's one of the Garonne River tributaries.


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Subject: RE: French folk song - Sur le Pont d'Auvignon
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 30 Mar 12 - 04:40 AM

Merci bien, Monique.

~M~


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Subject: RE: French folk song - Sur le Pont d'Auvignon
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 30 Mar 12 - 03:21 PM

The sole 'Lyr.Add: ....' has it spelled correctly.
The mis-spelling was by the original poster back in the year 19 and 98.
A mudelf may take it upon himself to add to or correct the title, but most of us just grin and bear the vagaries of spellings by less knowledgeable contributors.


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Subject: RE: French folk song - Sur le Pont d'Auvignon
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 31 Mar 12 - 12:01 AM

〠☺〠~M~〠☺〠

                                 g-r-r-r


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