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BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: GUEST Date: 27 Oct 06 - 03:26 PM As the number of shambles OCD'ers dwindle they have to post more to keep up the charade that they speak for the majority. Note how their posts are littered with self reassuring descriptors - that they speak for large/many numbers. We are left with 5 maybe 6 of them flapping around like guppies. But what you are being treated to here is a totally one sided manipulative view of proceedings. The thread 'Open Letter to Max', that was started with the sole intention to yet again gang up on shambles, turned into the opposite. The posters criticising the OCD'ers far outweighed those berating shambles. And lo and behold it was closed. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: GUEST Date: 27 Oct 06 - 03:43 PM Re 3: While I can agree some things would perhaps have been said better or not said at all, my opinion is that considering Joe Offer has more or less been accused of wrong doing, each day for the past 6 years, he has overall kept his patience pretty well. Given what you say about trips to dentists, Ron, I can not believe you would have handled the situation anywhere near as well. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: GUEST Date: 27 Oct 06 - 03:49 PM What's an OCD? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 27 Oct 06 - 03:59 PM "Ron, I can not believe you would have handled the situation anywhere near as well." You are correct. I give Shambles credit for not responding in the same manner. Of course, a case can be made that Shambles retaliates in his own manner, but I will give him the benefit. However, I don't know if I would have let the situation reach a point like that. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: GUEST Date: 27 Oct 06 - 04:07 PM Of course, a case can be made that Shambles retaliates in his own manner, but I will give him the benefit. Retaliates? The accusations come from shambles. shambles is the agressor. The mods, notably Joe Offer constantly wind up defending themselves. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: MMario Date: 27 Oct 06 - 04:09 PM It's always easier to not respond "badly" when someones "bad" behavior is provoked by yourself in the first place. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: Blowzabella Date: 27 Oct 06 - 06:10 PM what's OCD? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: John MacKenzie Date: 27 Oct 06 - 06:12 PM Obsessive Compulsive Disorder |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: number 6 Date: 27 Oct 06 - 06:17 PM "Oh, help me in my weakness," I heard the drifter say, As they carried him from the courtroom And were taking him away. "My trip hasn't been a pleasant one And my time it isn't long, And I still do not know What it was that I've done wrong." Well, the judge, he cast his robe aside, A tear came to his eye, "You fail to understand," he said, "Why must you even try?" Outside, the crowd was stirring, You could hear it from the door. Inside, the judge was stepping down, While the jury cried for more. "Oh, stop that cursed jury," Cried the attendant and the nurse, "The trial was bad enough, But this is ten times worse." Just then a bolt of lightning Struck the courthouse out of shape, And while ev'rybody knelt to pray The drifter did escape." drifter's escape .... B. Dylan biLL |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: The Shambles Date: 27 Oct 06 - 07:28 PM And despite our best efforts, Mudcat is no longer a pleasant place to hang out and goof off or have a good discussion. Joe Offer Any chance of a discussion on the above? 1. Have they really been ALL of 'our best efforts'? 2. Is really Mudcat no longer a pleasant place to hang out and goof off or have a good discussion? 3. If you think not - then what is the motivation behind such a 'for the record' public statement and what is its effect? 4. If you agree that Mudcat IS no longer pleasant place to hang out and goof off or have a good discussion - what suggestions can you make to improve it? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: bobad Date: 27 Oct 06 - 07:33 PM Whenever I happen by this thread I am reminded of the scene from the Fellini movie "Amarcord" where one of the characters threatens suicide by prying his mouth apart. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: The Shambles Date: 27 Oct 06 - 07:44 PM I can't agree with everything, nor can I agree with the importance he places on it. Could this have something to do with the fact that you are still free to express your view in any thread you wish - and I am not? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: Big Mick Date: 27 Oct 06 - 07:50 PM Ron, for posterity's sake, I will correct mistatements so someone later doesn't believe a falsehood. Shambles is not curtailed from posting in any thread he wants. He is allowed to post anywhere he so chooses. The only restriction on him is that he is not allowed to hijack the threads over to his personal crusade, as he has done many times in the past. This is what precipitated his restriction to having one thread to discuss his objections to how the forum is run. He is also restricted to one thread on this subject at a time. For a period of time he would start multiple threads on essentially the same subject, all with just a slightly different name. It got so bad that he was restricted to one thread. This is treatment that he earned. Mick |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: Bill D Date: 27 Oct 06 - 08:16 PM and, he has gotten adept at 'skirting the line' with threads that 'almost' get into his crusade. The 'birthday' threads were in that area, but have become something else, due to mostly being 'on topic'. I post to them at times...Like Mick, I'm not against Roger posting interesting stuff, even silly stuff. I just am weary with his flogging a dead horse until the quivers of the body LOOK like there's still life! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: The Shambles Date: 27 Oct 06 - 08:23 PM Finally, Napoleon emerges from the farmhouse, upright and carrying a whip. It is the most shocking thing the animals have ever seen. It goes against everything that they have been taught up to then. Just as it seems that someone might object, the sheep break into a deafening chorus of "Four legs bad, two legs better." They went on for five minutes, during which the pigs walked briefly around and then returned to the farmhouse. The chance to protest is gone. Clover goes to the gable wall and brings Benjamin with her. She asks Benjamin to read for her what is on the gable wall. All the commandments are gone, and all that is written there now is "All animals are equal, But some animals are more equal than others." From Animal Farm by George Orwell |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: catspaw49 Date: 27 Oct 06 - 09:20 PM Half Brain Good. Full Brain Better. How many times are you going to post that? It has no meaning here at all. Equally, you are not a martyr to a cause or a staunch defender of freedom............You are on the other hand, unable to see the forest for the trees. Soon one will fall on you. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 27 Oct 06 - 11:18 PM
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: Big Mick Date: 27 Oct 06 - 11:30 PM Garg, that may be your finest post ever. Well done. Mick |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: catspaw49 Date: 27 Oct 06 - 11:33 PM The Garg is always capable. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: GUEST Date: 27 Oct 06 - 11:36 PM DON'T FEED THE TROLLS! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: GUEST Date: 28 Oct 06 - 12:12 AM "If you agree that Mudcat IS no longer pleasant place to hang out and goof off or have a good discussion - what suggestions can you make to improve it?" For starters Shambles you can stop beating a dead horse. But that will never happen. So therefore you will soon be gone. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: Peace Date: 28 Oct 06 - 12:20 AM If Shambles wants to beat a dead horse, why does it bother you? Lots of worst posts are on Mudcat and the editing team doesn't give a shit about them. So way single out Shambles? This makes no fucking sense. He's posting this stuff on ONE thread. If you don't want to read it, don't. Simple, really. True, maybe Shambles IS beating a dead horse, but to even THAT up, gangs beat on Shambles. FAWK! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: number 6 Date: 28 Oct 06 - 01:55 AM That has always puzzled me Peace .... I guess deep down everyone likes Shambles ... or their buttons have easily been pushed by Shambles, but I can't see people being that stoopid. Overall I can't see what all the squawking is all about ... Shambles says what he says ... some of it makes sense, some of it doesn't ... so what ... I certainly wouldn't call the hangin' judge in over it. biLL |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: Joe Offer Date: 28 Oct 06 - 02:59 AM
-Joe- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: The Shambles Date: 28 Oct 06 - 04:42 AM What has liking anyone got to do with the public being invited to post their views on a discussion forum - and just as importantly, what has it to do with all posters being expected to tolerate the views of others? The following is the important thing to be seen to publicly discuss. And despite our best efforts, Mudcat is no longer a pleasant place to hang out and goof off or have a good discussion. Joe Offer It is clear from this (for the record statement) that these 'best efforts' of closing threads and deleting posts have not provided our 'moderators' with what they require and that Max has been asked and has not yet implemented the requested change. So if you agree with this statement - what can you suggest to improve our forum. And if you don't agree with it - this may be your only chance to be able to say so. Before: It is the most shocking thing the animals have ever seen. It goes against everything that they have been taught up to then. Just as it seems that someone might object, the sheep break into a deafening chorus of "Four legs bad, two legs better." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: Joe Offer Date: 28 Oct 06 - 05:39 AM You're right, Shambles. I like you just fine, but I can't tolerate all this repetition!!!! Aaaaaargh!!!!Whew! It feels better now. I'm OK. I just needed to let it out, for once... -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: The Shambles Date: 28 Oct 06 - 05:40 AM What again? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: wysiwyg Date: 28 Oct 06 - 06:13 AM The ancient incurious at the Ted Rachel gavin and ground of bugle the shadow warrens abstractly to resonating capasity in the villagers plus and minus to consecutive ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 28 Oct 06 - 11:26 AM " The following is the important thing to be seen to publicly discuss. And despite our best efforts, Mudcat is no longer a pleasant place to hang out and goof off or have a good discussion." Shambles, if no one seems to be willing to discuss your point, perhaps you would accept that no one has any serious objections or they would be bringing up points to support yours? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: GUEST Date: 28 Oct 06 - 11:38 AM But if one person says it one time and Shambles picks up on it then it must be the God's honest truth. After all, Shambles is the official speaker of what is best for Mudcat. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: Ebbie Date: 28 Oct 06 - 01:31 PM "And despite our best efforts, Mudcat is no longer a pleasant place to hang out and goof off or have a good discussion." Oh. I get it. If I report that in my opinion the Mudcat is still a pleasant place to hang out and goof off and have a good discussion then I'm disagreeing with Joe Offer, which makes Joe a liar and therefore he must go. Am I right? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: GUEST Date: 28 Oct 06 - 02:10 PM No Ebbie, you would be disagreeing with a moderator so you must go. Better yet, according to Shambles, your comment would be edited out and you would be permanently persecuted by the moderators and lynch mobs. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: jeffp Date: 28 Oct 06 - 03:06 PM Of course, your presence here gives the lie to that statement. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: The Shambles Date: 29 Oct 06 - 07:02 AM Am I right? Why have you posted but not told us what your opinion is. There is nothing to discuss - if you do not. So perhaps you could simply tell our forum what it is your opinion on this statement? Do you agree with it and the proposed solution to it - or not? Ebbie - perhaps you would accept that it is the public posting of this 'for the record' statement by the current Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team that is causing you and our forum the sort of problems and conclusions you refer to? All I am doing is asking for these problems to be discussed and addressed. For this is exactly the sort of division that I refer to. In all truth your opinion either supports this statement or it does not. So why should you feel you have to struggle to make your opinion fit with any 'semi-official' party line and feel you need to be seen to be on the right side? Especially a side that appears never to be satisfied......... In my view there has only been one side to take and that is to support our forum and the open invitation for the public to post and the continuation of Max's posting policy. To my mind, any poster who does not support this and requires it to be changed to better suit their requirements - has never been posting on the right forum. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: The Shambles Date: 29 Oct 06 - 07:40 AM Shambles, if no one seems to be willing to discuss your point, perhaps you would accept that no one has any serious objections or they would be bringing up points to support yours? It is the most shocking thing the animals have ever seen. It goes against everything that they have been taught up to then. Just as it seems that someone might object, the sheep break into a deafening chorus of "Four legs bad, two legs better." Yours may be one view? The evidence would not support this. There are a number of poster who do have serious objections - they just make less noise, are not encouraged and are understandably reticent about posting anything that may look like supporting my views (especially in this thread). Your view is that I do not have a very good debating style. Perhaps you would accept other posters may feel that I do, that I am saying exacly what they may wish to and that they will watch while I take all the public 'stick' that seems to be the result of trying to discuss certain issues on our forum? Such a view is possible? Perhaps you would also accept that all the justifications provided to support the special restrictions are bogus? That it is what I try to say that is the real problem? And that this is clearly demonstrated in the fact that I and any other poster would still be free to say what a wonderful job our 'moderators' are doing in any thread (as they are doing) and be able to do this as often as they wished - without any accusations of hijacking? And that certain posters are encouraged to post spam, jokes, recipes in this thread - safe from any accusations of this hijacking? And that anyone who supports this - is seen to be supporting a double standard of posting behaviour on our forum? One where online bullying is now seen to be encouraged by the open participation and encouragement of some of our 'moderators'? And where is the support here for the (for the record) statement? Even the fellow poster who made it - seems reluctant to now discuss it or indicate to our forum if this view has changed in the period since it was made, or whether this is still their view. Although the poster cannot seem to be quite able to ignore this thread or resist posting to it but adding little to the discussion. One blessing is that these contributions are at least being posted conventionally and do refresh the thread - rather than being contained in editing comments, which do not. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: catspaw49 Date: 29 Oct 06 - 07:45 AM There ya' go Ebbie. You have received right from the horse's ass a Shambolina Classic. Syntax and logic both are garbled and beyond recognition. The last "policy" Max had towards postings by the Piss&MoanMeister was a request he leave. Got a mirror Roger? I mean do you have one your wife will allow you to use without fear of breakage? If so, please look into it and say, "Geeziz, I am really an asshole." Repeat this one hundred times and then perhaps you will be able to read what Max has actually said and see that you are not his defender but his antagonist and your ass is about to get the boot as outlined for you previously. Do yourself a huge favor Roger and go back to your poems and songs and drop the vendetta. Just a suggestion mind you, but it's a good one. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: The Shambles Date: 29 Oct 06 - 08:34 AM Rather than an analogy, I'll offer an actual event that happened with a person I knew. This person endlessly complained about a particular hair dresser in a beauty Salon that she went to. No matter how much the hair dresser tried to satisfy this person, she was always extremely critical after each visit. This person complained so endlessly that she finally succeeded in getting the hair dresser fired. There was so much upset in the beauty salon among the other hair dressers that the employer investigated the matter more thoroughly and discovered that the problem was the customer, not the hair dresser. The hair dresser that was fired was well-liked by her other customers. As an analogy - this story rather depends on who you are encouraged to see as the complainant and who you see as the customer and what is the aim. I cannot view the following as anything other that a complaint of the most fundamental kind, and this after a never-ending list of public complaints about posters, made by the same individual over many years. And despite our best efforts, Mudcat is no longer a pleasant place to hang out and goof off or have a good discussion. Joe Offer To go on from the hairdresser story - this the equivalent of the shop's manager complaining about the staff to the customers and to the customers about the staff and telling the shop's owner that they require the hairdressers shop to be changed into a chip shop. Such a statement does little to help the morale of the staff, very little to encourge the existing customers or any new ones who still turn up expecting their hair to be done . It may be some encouragement to those who like chips - but as has been pointed out many times - there are no shortage of chip shops eleswhere. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: Jerry Rasmussen Date: 29 Oct 06 - 08:47 AM Hey Shambles: Thanks for taking an extremely straighforward, actual occurence and making it into an incomprehensible analogy. Only you. Jerry |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: The Shambles Date: 29 Oct 06 - 09:18 AM Thank you Jerry. You will notice that I will not make any personal judgement of your worth, in my post but will continue try to discuss the issue. You will acept that it is true that their are plenty of chip shops needing to be managed. Though quite how many owners would tolerate their managers being seen to constantly complain about their customers, their staff and their policy - is not sure. But the other option is for those complainers to start one of their own. But again I am not sure how many customers would be attracted to a shop with such a policy - but this would be a fair test and more honest approach than to try and dictate terms to and changing an established business to suit the manager's requirements. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: jeffp Date: 29 Oct 06 - 10:11 AM Despite the best efforts of our Police, they have not eliminated crime. We should get rid of them all. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 29 Oct 06 - 10:11 AM "Your view is that I do not have a very good debating style. Perhaps you would accept other posters may feel that I do, that I am saying exacly what they may wish to and that they will watch while I take all the public 'stick' that seems to be the result of trying to discuss certain issues on our forum?" No, I don't see such evidence. There are people who agree with you, including me, but I see very few that agree with the level of importance that you place on it. " Such a view is possible? " Anything is possible, but is it probable? " Yours may be one view?" Well duh! Of course, my view could also be shared by hundreds, as could yours. Not that any of our views matter. " And where is the support here for the (for the record) statement? " Apparently the support is there from the owner of this site. That is all that is needed. "this the equivalent of the shop's manager complaining about the staff to the customers and to the customers about the staff and telling the shop's owner that they require the hairdressers shop to be changed into a chip shop. Such a statement does little to help the morale of the staff, very little to encourge the existing customers or any new ones who still turn up expecting their hair to be done ." So? The owner of the store can take the business in any way they choose. True, it may hurt the morale of the staff and customers, but the business decision is not theirs to make. "You will notice that I will not make any personal judgement of your worth, in my post but will continue try to discuss the issue." Seems like a statement like that just made a judgement about Jerry. It appears that you feel superior to Jerry by saying things like that. You don't have the option of controlling how people discuss issues. It is not your job to moderate and your suggestions are not being taken seriously because of the way you are supposedly "discussing" this issue. Shutting down other views and turning yourself into a martyr does not help your case. "But the other option is for those complainers to start one of their own." Let us know where you start one. I will be sure to visit. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: Bunnahabhain Date: 29 Oct 06 - 10:15 AM Stop maoning shambles. We of the the Moab continuium have just lost about 7000 posts... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: GUEST,lightnix Date: 29 Oct 06 - 10:20 AM Shamble, I think you need to get over yourself. As a long term forum user and occasional moderator, I've developed the following view over the last few years... Nobody has a "right" to post anything, in any web forum, anywhere, other than the Adminstrators, to whom the site belongs. Web forums are not democracies, they are privately owned and run websites and if the owners don't want to see certain things in their websites then those things don't go in. Forums are not "services" in the strict sense of the word. They (and the various functions and facilities they offer) are merely courtesies extended by the voluntary administrators who run them, often at their own financial expense (especially in the short term) and their moderation team. As long as membership is free, nobody has the right to expect (let alone demand) any level of service of any kind, particularly one that is higher than that which the voluntary team who run a forum are prepared to provide. Nobody forces anybody to visit, register with, or post in any forum. The whole process is entirely voluntary and if a member doesn't like the way a forum is run, the best thing to do is not go there. Getting involved in the politics and starting fights, especially with moderators will get you precisely nowhere (except maybe a ban). Nobody is going to change the way they run their forum just to suit the wants and whims of an individual member or two, especially once the total membership number has risen beyond a few tens / hundreds. Moderators are not censors, they are closer to being newspaper sub-editors. When somebody makes a post to a forum, it is as though they are writing a letter or submitting copy to a newspaper and, as with a newspaper, the editor and sub-editors may go through that copy and edit (not censor) it, so that the message published in the paper is clear, concise and in line with the "profile" of the publication. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: The Shambles Date: 29 Oct 06 - 12:06 PM Apparently the support is there from the owner of this site. That is all that is needed. It is a fact that in the time since this (for the record) statement/complaint was made on forum by the current Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team, the site's owner, our host Max has not seen fit to implement the only suggestion contained in this statement. So how do you equate that as the site's owner's support for this (for the record) statement and the wishes of the current Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team - who made it? If Max was seen to be supporting this (for the record) statement - surely our forum would already had been changed to accomodate the wishes of the current Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team? Or at the very least, some form of public (for the record) statement of its intended implementation would have be given to our forum? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: The Shambles Date: 29 Oct 06 - 12:13 PM Nobody is going to change the way they run their forum just to suit the wants and whims of an individual member or two, especially once the total membership number has risen beyond a few tens / hundreds. Perhaps you need to explain this to the poster/'moderator' who made the following (for the record) request? For he appears to think that our host will change the way they run their forum just to suit the wants and whims of an individual member or two. And despite our best efforts, Mudcat is no longer a pleasant place to hang out and goof off or have a good discussion. So, I think something has to be done. Ebbie's suggestion about putting Secret Santa in the music section is a very simple answer to one major objection I had to members-only BS posting - duh, why didn't I think of that? So, short of members-only posting, what can we do to bring peace to this place? I'd rather have another solution, but I haven't been able to think of one. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: John MacKenzie Date: 29 Oct 06 - 12:21 PM Boring |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: John MacKenzie Date: 29 Oct 06 - 12:21 PM Boring |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: John MacKenzie Date: 29 Oct 06 - 12:21 PM Boring |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: John MacKenzie Date: 29 Oct 06 - 12:21 PM Boring |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: John MacKenzie Date: 29 Oct 06 - 12:22 PM Boregasmic |