BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 16 Oct 06 - 05:03 PM

who gets the honor?

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Wesley S
Date: 16 Oct 06 - 05:12 PM

Well Bill - Wouldn't you agree? I'd hate to refresh this thread if I had nothing new to say. If I was just going to rehash the same things over and over and over again it would be pretty much senseless. A waste of time. Repetative too. AND redundent.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Oct 06 - 05:14 PM

Shambles - You have an entire thread here where you hash the same crap over and over and over and you tell Wesley to add something new to it? Heed your advice buddy. How much time do you have on your hands that everyday you reply to this thread and search through past posts and threads and cut and paste like crazy to prove a point to the world that no one cares about. Do you ever go outside? Do you ever turn off your computer? Do you only get one channel on the internet and it's Mudcat???

Heal thyself!

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Peace
Date: 16 Oct 06 - 05:18 PM

Please come to the 85 billion thread if you want to give people shit. We all love it when people give us shit because it helps the thread grow and come closer to its goal of 85 billion posts. Stop being such friggin' wankers on this thread. Come to the 85 billion thread and be wankers there.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Wesley S
Date: 16 Oct 06 - 05:21 PM

Nothing new to add just yet. But - I'm working on it.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: number 6
Date: 16 Oct 06 - 11:26 PM

"A brain walks into a bar and says, "I'll have a pint of beer please." The barman looks at him and says "Sorry, I can't serve you." "Why not?" askes the brain. The barman replies "You're already out of your head."

Now that joke certainly deserves a Mudcat award ... of some sort.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 17 Oct 06 - 02:06 AM

Second joke thread of 2006

Subject: RE: musical traditions
From: The Shambles
Date: 17 Oct 06 - 02:17 AM

Wolfgang (more sad than amused by a completly unnecessary thread; at least in this form)

Now you have informed our forum of your judgement of what others post - why would you think our forum should care what your judgement of them is or even be interested in such a post?

If you don't like the thread - why take the time and trouble post to it and refresh a post that is not to your taste - just to say so and be seen to make some pedantic observation?

Why not simply ignore this thread or start one that is to your taste?

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: jeffp
Date: 17 Oct 06 - 06:47 AM

Chili Oil

*Ingredients:
2 cups olive oil
4 teaspoons dried crushed red pepper flakes

*Preparation:
Combine the oil and crushed red pepper flakes in a heavy small saucepan. Cook over low heat until a thermometer inserted into the oil registers 180 degrees F, about 5 minutes.

Remove from heat. Cool to room temperature, about 2 hours. Transfer the oil and pepper flakes to a 4-ounce bottle. Seal the lid. Refrigerate up to 1 month.




*Preparation Time: 2 min + 2 hours
*Yield: 2 cups

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Oct 06 - 08:01 AM

Notice how Shambles can't answer my questions that actually deal with the thread? Sooooooooooo surprising.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Wesley S
Date: 17 Oct 06 - 10:12 AM

Shambles - if you you have something to add to the subject under discussion in the thread - which is clearly indicated in its title - please do so. But to refresh it by adding links to joke pages is just plain wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Wesley S
Date: 17 Oct 06 - 10:20 AM

Maybe "just plain wrong" is too strong of a phrase. But it does obscure the serious discussion that many of us are trying to have on this most important of subjects. Get with the program please.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 17 Oct 06 - 11:17 AM

Some time ago - Wesley S came up with the following - it says more in a few lines than I can ever manage, in my long-winded way.

Grant our members and guests the serenity to accept the things they cannot change - the courage to change the things they can - and the wisdom to realise that this is a forum open to the public and that they have no control over the posts and ideas of others


Not posting to a thread

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 17 Oct 06 - 12:07 PM

For you Roger

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 17 Oct 06 - 02:56 PM

A young man walks onto the stage of Stars in their Eyes, on crutches, with a plaster cast from his feet to his hips. Matthew Kelly introduces him as Simon.



"It's very brave of you to come out here," says Matthew.



"Please tell the audience what happened?"



"Well" replies Simon "about a year ago, I was driving with my uncle when we had a really bad accident. Unfortunately my uncle was killed outright but I survived. I was trapped in the car for six hours before I was eventually cut free."



"The doctors had me in surgery for 12 hours but they couldn't save my legs."



"That's terrible. But I see you have legs now. Are they artificial?" asks Matthew.



"No Matthew, while I was in hospital the doctors informed me that my uncle had in fact died, but that his legs were fine and with all the advances in medical science, they could graft the bottom half of his body onto mine. As you can see the operation was successful. I have been having physiotherapy for six months and hope to be walking fully again by the end of the year."



A huge round of applause erupts from the audience. Kelly responds with: "That's an unbelievable story. So tonight, who are you going to be?"



Read down



















You are really going to love this…………







































'Tonight, Matthew, I am going to be Simon and Halfuncle'

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Jeri
Date: 17 Oct 06 - 07:35 PM

Guest, regarding Shambles not answering direct questions, I think it's part of the syndrome. I don't think he evades. I don't think he's capable of answering them, and no, I'm not trying to insult him or even argue. I think his inability to answer these questions, the memorization and repitition of phrases, the obsession with Joe and editing/moderation/whatever, and the inability to understand subtle clues about how serious Joe isn't when he says he doesn't like birthday threads or counting posts, are part of a syndrome. He doesn't understand what Max meant with his invitation to leave because Max is going to have to do something a lot less subtle for him to get it.   

I don't think he can stop, but I don't think some other people can either. And I may be wrong about the syndrome thing, but it doesn't matter. It's one thing to argue with someone who's capable of understanding you, but it's quite a different thing to continue to try to expect understanding and agreement from a person who only posts because it's part of his routine, and who can neither see nor care about the effects of his obsession.

It makes it easy for me not not get involved in discussions about editing. I see no logical evidence he's really trying to change anything, or even discuss the issue. Posting is just something he has to do. Depersonalizing Joe ("Chief of the...") and complaining about anyone with an edit button, whom he catches doing anything at all, is just his hobby.

The bottom line is that I don't think he can help it, and I can, and if he can't help it, it's harder to be angry at what he says.    It's easier to develop negative opinions of those who keep pushing his buttons, but I guess everybody needs something to inspire them.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 18 Oct 06 - 02:07 AM

Piffle

All I have even done is to continue to try to post my honest views to a discussion on a discussion form set up for that purpose on an issue that some would rather was rather not discussed. This to enable all posters to be seen to be having a fair shake.

It is those who judge this using emotive words like obsession to describe my posting (because they do not agree with my views) but by NOT such words to describe the many and varied attempts that are encouraged to be made to judge and prevent this who are now adding to the problem.

A problem that will only be made worse by a few posters (in hundreds of posts) being seen to encourage and support the imposition of more restrictions or managing to prevent one poster fron contributing to our forum at all.

The answer to anyone who is not interested in discussing this issue has always been simple - don't open the thread to read it and don't post and refresh the thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 18 Oct 06 - 05:53 AM

Right boys and girls, let's do just that. Let's not post here any more!
G

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 18 Oct 06 - 07:49 AM

Right boys and girls, let's do just that. Let's not post here any more!

It's one thing to argue with someone who's capable of understanding you, but it's quite a different thing to continue to try to expect understanding and agreement from a person who only posts because it's part of his routine, and who can neither see nor care about the effects of his obsession.

Jeri - Does it really follow that the reason someone may not agree with you is because they are not capaple of understanding you? Have you ever considered the possibilty that you are wrong? Or the fact that it is not necessary to reach agreement or to gang-up and grind any who continue to disagree into the ground? Only to be seen to agree to disagree?

Posters have been encouraged to post and call me many things and many aspects of my mental health have been diagnosed. Many judgements of my worth have been made and the simple act of my continued posting on our forum, has been described in every negative enotive term possible- by people I have never even met.

But if all these assesments and speculations were true - So what?

As no one is being forced to read or respond - are not all posters entitled to be as boring and as tedious as they wish, on our forum?

Isn't it the truth that all this fuss - is the distraction and not the problem at all?

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Oct 06 - 09:03 AM

Shambles- I believe Jeri may have been defending you in a way so you should apologize.

Try using all the energy, time and thought that you put onto this board into something more constructive like world hunger, homelessness and world peace. Make a real difference in this world besides worrying about a moderated message board. Good grief man do something worthwhile!

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Big Mick
Date: 18 Oct 06 - 10:31 AM

seems apropos

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Oct 06 - 10:45 AM

It's easier to develop negative opinions of those who keep pushing his buttons, but I guess everybody needs something to inspire them.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Oct 06 - 12:03 PM

It wasn't funny the first time Big Mick. Grow up!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Oct 06 - 12:33 PM

I thought it was hysterical...both times...

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST,KB
Date: 18 Oct 06 - 12:46 PM

I thought it was a gas.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Peace
Date: 18 Oct 06 - 12:53 PM

"Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to hide the bodies of those people I had to kill because they really pissed me off."

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Wesley S
Date: 18 Oct 06 - 01:20 PM

"God grant me the Senility to forget the people I never liked anyway, The good fortune to run into the ones I do, And the eyesight to tell the difference."

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Wolfgang
Date: 18 Oct 06 - 04:11 PM

I'm reading right now (for reasons that have nothing to do with this thread, but with my interest in a skeptical approach to personal experiences) Graham Reed's The psychology of anomalous experience which is a bit old (1988) but still interesting to read. The book does deal with normal people (in sometimes not so normal situations) and not with clinical cases.

I was reminded of the party metapher some hundred posts ago when I read the following in a subchapter about Anomalies in the flexibility of associations (p. 182f):

"The best example from everyday life is preoccupation, when our minds revolve around a single topic...Far from there being any conscious diminuation of mental activity, preoccupation often involves furious thinking - but the thinking revolves around one particular theme. Commonly, this theme has to do with some matter of significance...But often the focus of preoccupation processes possesses little personal significance or affective tone.

...Brooding [is preoccupation]...by a belief that life is treating one unfairly, or because one has been a victim of a slight (real or imagined).

...Preoccupation is usually triggered by a particular event or problem. But the same sort of delimination of cognitive energy may in certain individuals be such a habitual pattern as to be classifiable as a personality characteristic. At the opposite extrem from the person we describe as having a 'grasshopper mind' is the one with a 'one track mind'. This is somebody who tends to 'harp on' about one topic, to worry interminably about some difficulty, or to give protracted consideration to an idea that does not seem to merit such close attention.

...The inveterate one-track-mind is liable to be regarded as a bore, to be avoided at all costs. At social gatherings, he is likely to be a 'party pooper', not by intent or malice, but simply because his conversation is ewarnest, circumscribed, repetitious, and generally tedious. His inability to abandon his topic of choice, or even to approach it from freh viewpoints, impedes the spontaneous flow of conversation and deadens the lightness of tone associated with an enjoyable party. Furthermore, even the most well-intentioned of one-trackers will display a fiendish ability to turn the line of talk back to his focal theme, should attempts be made by others to change the subject." (End of quote)

Big Mick,
I can understand the temptation to try to be as repetitive as Shambles is and to repeat ad nauseam the same Max quote. But you are bound to lose that game and there is nothing you can do about it for two reasons:
(1) The repetitions by Shambles get under your skin on the long run, but Shambles is completely immune to repetitions (or arguments) by others.
(2) Your repetitions will look stupid to yourself after some time (as they should), but Shambles' repetitions will never look stupid to him.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Wolfgang
Date: 18 Oct 06 - 04:17 PM

The book isn't full of typos, but my typing is.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 18 Oct 06 - 06:48 PM

The party analogy is not of course a totally accurate one.

For if my main protagonists and I were at the same party (rather than the reality of just posting to the same discussion forum) we would not be able to recognise one another for a start.

And unlike the party setting - it is quite possible for any poster here to completely ignore any fellow invited guest they find to be boring or otherwise not to their taste - without having any affect on the party atmosphere.   

As our forum is not a party - the one-track poster, trying to talk abour closed threads and deleted posts - is perhaps only what you would expect to find in a thread with this one's title.

To find in this thread posters being encouraged to swap recipes or tell jokes or to judge and speculate on the mental health of their fellow posters - is perhaps more unexpected. Especially given the whole justification attempted for this witch-hunt.

No - our forum is not a party. It is a online discussion forum - so any individual poster attempting to continue posting their views to it - is not a strange situation calling for assessments of that poster's state of mind. It remains the object of the exercise.

The various (and fun) means used to try and prevent any individual poster from doing this and to attempt to find some noble sounding justification for this online bullying is the questionable activity.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Oct 06 - 08:38 PM

Uh huh.............ayup...................

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 18 Oct 06 - 08:57 PM

I disagree Shambles, our forum is very much LIKE a party. You are entitled to your opinion, and I hope someday you will be able to share it in other spots.

No, you cannot always avoid someone you do not care for at a party. If you are in a small room and the person keeps interjecting in conversations, you are stuck. Often words are said.

Sometimes you can go into another room to avoid that guest and hope that he or she won't follow.

Often, conversations that appear to be going along are hijacked by someone who wants to make a change.

Of course, all of this is approved by the owner. That is just the way things go and the partygoers have to deal with it.   The enjoyement of the party will ultimately be theirs - they can try to have fun. Often, it is up to the host to determine how things go.

Yes, Mudcat is very much like a party.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Big Mick
Date: 18 Oct 06 - 09:02 PM

Ron, Shambles isn't prevented from sharing his opinions in other spots. Never has been. What he is prevented from doing is taking this argument to other spots. In fact he has been given a whole thread just for his complaints. But he is not allowed to hijack other threads to complain about the mod's and the running of the Mudcat. With all due respect, your understanding of this issue doesn't go back far enough to understand why this occurred. This man earned the treatment he gets.

But I repeat. He is not banished from other threads. He simply cannot take this discussion to them.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 18 Oct 06 - 10:55 PM

Mick, I realize that I do not know the "whole" story, but I am not sure why others can take arguements to other threads and he can't.   IF there is an issue with Shambles that has him being treated differently from others, perhaps he should be banned completely.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 19 Oct 06 - 02:30 AM

No, you cannot always avoid someone you do not care for at a party. If you are in a small room and the person keeps interjecting in conversations, you are stuck. Often words are said.

Yes - Ron, I agree.

That is exactly why the party analogly falls down. That is exactly what posters can do on our forum. The reality that no poster can have any control of what another choses to post and as a result - there is little point in anyone trying to - this must slowly be dawning even on my regular accusers and name-callers?

For it is not one party. The threads are a series of themed parties. It is perfectly possible to avoid any subject that is not to your taste - without being encouraged to be seen to gang-up in concerted efforts designed to have restricions imposed upon a a fellow guest and for these posters to be denied the invitation that that you take as a right.

That is not the guest's/poster's call. It is our host's. If Max decides to ban me from posting after all this time - for trying to continue to post my views - because of the 'distraction' generated by those who should be setting a better example, have never accepted the realities of our forum and who are now seen to have their own agendas - it will be a sad day for me.

But it will be a sadder day for our forum. For bullying will have been seen to have achieved its object, the lynch-mob will move on to another scape-goat and the party will be over for anyone but the like-minded.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 19 Oct 06 - 04:55 AM

Mick, I realize that I do not know the "whole" story, but I am not sure why others can take arguements to other threads and he can't.

Ron - I suggest that you do indeed know the whole story.

You appear to have just come to a different conclusion (and are brave enough to express it) from those few who seem to judge that being seen to disagree with their views on our form - requires them to be seen to gang-up and bully others into agreement. And if this tactic does not succeed - to use all of their efforts to be seen to try drive their fellow guests out of the party.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 19 Oct 06 - 09:24 AM

Shambles, I do not know the whole story because I have not followed it from the beginning, and it appears that some of your posts were deleted if I what I have read is true. It is hard to get a complete picture.   I do see a number of people who seem to continually harp on you, make comments about you in other threads, and then complain that YOU are the obsessive one! How odd is that?

As for the party, I am not sure how many parties you go to but usually the ones I attend will have more than one conversation going on at a time. In a corner of the living room there will be a group discussing sports, in another corner of the room there may be a discussion over the latest episode of CSI. In the kitchen there may be a discussion of movies going on. People drift in and out at parties, just like they do on Mudcat.

When I go to a party, I realize that my "rights" are restricted. I am following the hosts rules - as strict or relaxed as they make them. I have witnessed people ganging up on individuals when there is a disagreement (New Jersey parties can be rough!!) and the host is usually the final arbitrator.

As you say, it "is not the guest's/poster's call. It is our host's". If anyone calls for your banishment, it is utimately the hosts decision.   Of course, that works as a two way street. If you are claiming that individuals do not have the "right" to impose their views about you, then you do not have the right to post your views about any change you would like to see in the way this system operates.

Because there has been limited action taken by the host, the posts will continue. People will continue to gang up on you, and you will continue to state your case.

Just to be clear - I do not want to see you banned. I did not want to see Martin Gibson banned either.   I respect the hosts decisions, even if I don't always agree with them. They do what they feel is right for the system that they operate.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Big Mick
Date: 19 Oct 06 - 10:09 AM

Agreed Ron, that it would be hard for you to get the complete picture. And I also agree that there is a certain set that do respond negatively to Shambles. Take a look at the names. Bill D, Wolfgang, Catspaw, Jeri, myself, as well as many others. Most of these folks have been here a long time, and are well respected (myself excluded). Ask yourself what would make a Bill D respond to Shambles. This man is a gentle, good natured, and intelligent poster. Same with Wolfgang. Jeri is awfully hard to set off. Spaw and I, well sometimes our passions get the best of us. Take a look at MMario's comments in this forum, then ask yourself why such a decent guy would respond in a negative way to Shambles.

You just get to the point that you tire of him bringing nothing to the party but bitchin' and whingeing, and his attempts to twist threads to his vendetta. That is why he has been relegated to one thread for this. It got to the point a few years back where every thread was being hijacked. There are places where his obsessiveness actually were a benefit. I think of the PEL situation. I believe I was the first of the Mudcatters to write at his request, to the authorities. But overall, he just was so out of control, and his arguments got so self serving, and his out of context cut and pastes got so tiresome, that this is the outcome. Quite frankly he got off easy. Joe actually stood up for Shambles. I was, and am, in favor of banning him and deleting any posts he puts up. I have been overruled on this.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 19 Oct 06 - 10:13 AM

If you are claiming that individuals do not have the "right" to impose their views about you, then you do not have the right to post your views about any change you would like to see in the way this system operates.

Ron - you will accept that there is a difference between you or I simply posting to expressing a view or making a suggestion on this or any other subject - to when some anonymous fellow poster - not only judges our post as wanting in some way but imposes that judgement, by taking some form of action?

But talking of 'rights' will lead us to contentious areas.

The latter example now seems to be generally accepted as some form of 'right'. But posters do not now seem to have ANY 'rights' at all on our forum. I can't help feeling that they once used to......

The latter may well be a 'right' - but I am less concerned about it being a 'right' than I am concerned about the effects of being seen to so ready to exercise that 'right'. As its main protagonists now publicly question its effectiveness - it may be a time for posters to seriously examine and discuss what I consider to be the counter - productive effects of this - before we just plough on?

It would seem to me that those who wish to be surounded only by like-minded posters - in order to express personal judgements about - really do need a members only forum. But that it does NOT follow that our forum must be changed to accomodate those wishes. I feel it is time that the tension cause by this uncertainty of the future direction of our forum is finally settled.

Either Max is happy for our forum to be led by (some of) our 'moderators' towards a change to members only posting or it needs to be made clear to those calling for this (and to our forum) to be informed that this is NOT going to happen.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Peace
Date: 19 Oct 06 - 10:22 AM

There are many opinions and statements about people that are disgusting and have been left on the boards. Shambles, although he disagrees with aspects of the forum's editing, has never been rude to people. Contrary to what you say, Mick, there are instances where mods have taken arguments from this thread and carried them over to others. Eoither Shambles is entitled to his opinion or he isn't. That alternative is NOT that he should then be entitled to my opinion, your opinion or someone else's opinion. There is no alternative. Ban Shambles and I will forward a request to Joe that he also ban me completely, because it may as well be that way. Shambles has done nothing for which he deserves to be banned--other than piss you off. Don't pretend to support a fairly harmless form of free speech such as is often exemplified on this forum when at the same time you try your best to quell it.

The consistent posting from many mods has given Shambles a great deal of air time. Take a good look at yourselves before you slag Shambles. If you want to do something constructive, get to the 85 billion thread. Do it there. We welcome any and all posts, even from mods.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: MMario
Date: 19 Oct 06 - 10:22 AM

'Either Max is happy for our forum to be led by (some of) our 'moderators' towards a change to members only posting or it needs to be made clear to those calling for this (and to our forum) to be informed that this is NOT going to happen"

Once again you appear to be dictating to Max how he should run his site. He is under no obligation to inform the posters of this site what he plans or may plan to do. He has not yet made the forum members only - and while he may or may not have plans to do so in the future it is his decision. Just as it was his decision to appoint moderators.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: MMario
Date: 19 Oct 06 - 10:24 AM

Peace says:Shambles, although he disagrees with aspects of the forum's editing, has never been rude to people" - not true. There is a difference between rude and crude. I will admit that the shambles is careful to not be crude - but more then one person will admit to feeling he is not only rude but calculatedly so.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 19 Oct 06 - 10:31 AM

http://www.ibras.dk/montypython/episode03.htm#5

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Peace
Date: 19 Oct 06 - 11:30 AM

PS I don't doubt that my being banned would give about a dozen people their jollies for the day. That's just the way that is. But banning Shambles because he disagrees with the way moderation is carried out is a method of eventually controlling all posts and shaping them as some people wish.

I have not seen the rudeness, MMario. (Not over this issue I should clarify.) I have seen some rudeness directed at Shambles. You have too if you have been following this thread. Please address that also.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: MMario
Date: 19 Oct 06 - 11:37 AM

Peace - if you haven't seen rudeness from the Shambles you haven't been following the issue long enough to even begin to understand it. That is fact.

I do not excuse my own or others rudeness to him; but to claim he has never been rude to others on this forum is just an out and out falsehood.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Peace
Date: 19 Oct 06 - 11:43 AM

Bcak up a bit fella. I was saying I have seen no rudeness from Shambles on this thread, NOT on this forum. You want to call me a liar about it, do so. But for fuck's sake, call me a liar for something I said, NOT something I didn't.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: MMario
Date: 19 Oct 06 - 11:47 AM

my apologies Peace - this thread is the culmination of **SIX YEARS** of the same issue. We were talking apples and oranges.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 19 Oct 06 - 11:52 AM

Mick, I agree with your points. I believe that I am a fairly patient person, and I too have flown off the handle. I also agree that the names of the people you mentioned (yourself included) are some of the most reasonable and level headed people on Mudcat. When I see posts from those individuals, I take notice.

Yet, as you say, all of us have become upset with Shambles posts. I think it is because of the tactics he uses and what seems to be a case of him not listening to what we are trying to say.   He becomes very defensive and seems to have a need to justify every single point he makes.   When Shambles says something like "Either Max is happy for our forum to be led by (some of) our 'moderators' towards a change to members only posting or it needs to be made clear to those calling for this (and to our forum) to be informed that this is NOT going to happen" - that should be the end of the story. He made his point, he is not adding anything new to his arguements, and the rest of us get frustrated.

I do think that some of his points are well taken.   I do think he can be annoying.   I also think that all of us who are posting and continue adding to the discussion have a touch of the same problems that we blame Shambles for having.

We can't seem to let the issue rest, we keep coming back, we keep repeating ourselves. Are we that different from Shambles??

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Emma B
Date: 19 Oct 06 - 11:58 AM

After 1148 posts it is a real pleasure to see people taking cogent and objective stands, admit their own shortcomings, being prepared to acknowledge misunderstandings AND apologize - perhaps there is hope yet......

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Peace
Date: 19 Oct 06 - 12:12 PM

Hey, MMario--it's cool. (That's an old expression from the 1960s. It means it's ok, no prob, back atcha, sorry for the misunderstanding, screw the goat--wait, screw the goat is from a Scottish thread. Sorry. Anyway, not to worry.)