BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: MMario
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 02:47 PM

just worked up the statistics for another fourm I go to. The particular forum, judging by the complaints of the members who want MORE moderation, is very lightly moderated.

But over the past two weeks 5% of the posts have been deleted; 20% of the threads have been moved, edited or closed. No explanations given.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 02:57 PM

No Shambles,

It is pretty obvious from the example that you posted that nobody cares. Autolycus was just asking a question. He did not seem overly upset.

"Again IF I'm right, all that's required is to post sensibly (?!),interestingly (?!), vaguely to the point, without pointless abuse, or libel."

I don't know of any web site whatsoever that doesn't edit out posts that don't meet those criteria. The moderators owe it to the posters to make sure that decorum is maintained and that the website doesn't turn into a Wild West Show.

YOU HAVE PROVED NOTHING!!! That is the usual case with you. You are great at asking questions but you never seem to answer any.

You are going to have to look a little harder to find a post in this thread that shows anyone thinks the way that you do about the moderators, editing and Max's view of Mudcat (one that you should not be part of much longer).

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 04:41 PM

Hey Shambles,

I may not be as good at editing other people's postings as you are but here are some comments that have appeared in this thread this week. Not one single one backs up anything that you have to say.Give it a break. No one agrees with you. You are all alone in your feelings about Mudcat. You are the one who is wrong and you are the one who should go. Stop making things miserable for everyone else. It is you and not the moderators who is making this site not a lot of fun. BEGONE! You are beginning to remind me of King Lear at the end of the play. A totally nonsensical old man who talks and talks but says nothing of value to anyone.

Read what your fellow posters are saying


From: number 6

It has been unanimous amongst us all (and for some time now) that we all feel it should at least be members only posting in the BS. Lets hope we don't have to keep posting these posts in this thread the same time next year.




From: MMario


My stand re: members only posting is both public and in the record. I leave it as an excercise for you to remember what it is - as I have told you before, and quite recently.


From: John 'Giok' MacKenzie

I prefer a Members Only scenario, as it would then be easier to stop spammers, and to exclude those who's interests don't coincide with those of this forum.


From: jacqui.c
Personally, I would welcome a change to members only forum.

Personally, I think they should continue to be involved as much as they wish. I don't think that there is a problem here.

I AGREE WITH YOU RON - I have never had a problem with any of the moderators and, when they have altered my thread titles I have seen the logic in the change.

Personally, I don't feel that there is any problem and Shambles is taking this out of context.

I AGREE WITH YOU RON - Joe does an excellent job, given the work he does on the site as a whole. I, personally, have no beef with what he does.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 03 Nov 06 - 08:07 AM

I don't know of any web site whatsoever that doesn't edit out posts that don't meet those criteria. The moderators owe it to the posters to make sure that decorum is maintained and that the website doesn't turn into a Wild West Show.

YOU HAVE PROVED NOTHING!!! That is the usual case with you. You are great at asking questions but you never seem to answer any.

What has been proved and clearly demonstrated - yet again - is that poster's have no protection when their contributions in entire threads, are anonymously and routinely 'silently deleted' when these are seen NOT to meet any of the (ever varying) criteria.

And that it is the example set by our 'moderators' who indulge and encourge what you describe as a 'Wild West Show'.

Do you really want me to post some more examples of our 'moderators' methods of what you describe as maintaining 'decorum'? Or are you just happy to post your opinion despite their being no evidence to support it?

What harm would their be in our 'moderators' at least being seen be required to indicate in an editing comment, where they have judge any form of editing to be necessary and for editing comments to be limited to only where some form of imposition has taken place?

Do not our 'moderators' owe this to the posters also?

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Nov 06 - 08:46 AM

The only thing that our moderators owe to the posters is to do as good a job as possible in editing out any posts that are not deemed appropriate, for any reason, to the betterment of the majority of the posters. This is the way that it is done on every internet board that I am part of. I'm sure that you belong to other internet communities. You have to know deep down that Mudcat is a lot more lenient then most others. Not one board that I subscribe to lists deletions. Posts, and sometimes complete threads, can be deleted because they are not applicable to the theme of the board (our entire BS section would never appear on most boards), they are insulting, they are spam, or for any of a number of other reasons. Never have I seen a reason given for a deletion. All of your posts in this thread would be deleted because you are attacking the internet board, the moderators and the owner. In most communities you would be banned from posting anything whatsoever. No other place would even give you one thread to bellyache in like Max does. You really have it good here.

I certainly don't need you to post any examples of anything. You've done enough. Moderators have only one person to answer to and that is the site owner. Max hasn't replaced them so he thinks they are doing a good job. This board is set up under Max's rules and not Shambles rules. You have a right to ask for something and a right to suggest changes. Obviously what you have asked for and suggested is not what the owner wants to do. Therefore, as a citizen of this community you should accept the owner's decision and shut the hell up.

If others were interested in your suggestions then others would place threads supporting your changes. The fact that most people are happy here and don't want changes means that Mudcat is running the way that Max envisions it. If you want a website to run as Shambles envisions it then start one. See if you can satisfy 100% of the people 100% of the time.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 03 Nov 06 - 09:22 AM

It is pretty obvious from the example that you posted that nobody cares. Autolycus was just asking a question. He did not seem overly upset.

"Again IF I'm right, all that's required is to post sensibly (?!),interestingly (?!), vaguely to the point, without pointless abuse, or libel."

In answer to the above, this poster and our forum was given the following assurance by the current chief of the Mudcat Editing Team. Which they and our forum may well have taken some comfort from.

No, nothing you've posted has been deleted. It takes quite a bit to warrant deletion - direct attacks on people, racism, stalking, or frequent multiple posts of the same messages.
-Joe Offer-

The fact remains that if, very shortly after reading this assurance - this poster had contributed anything at all to the following thread Winona Ryder's birthday thread(s) - their posts, along with all others would have been 'silently deleted' without the current Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team even being aware that such action had been imposed.

I have seen nothing since this latest incident that reassures me that any action is being taken to prevent this from happening yet again.

Nor any evidence that our 'moderators' will now take any more notice of any so-called and varying 'critera' laid down by the current Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team - than our forum should take of any public assurance given by the current Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team.

Who may well be trying to be fair - but is now plainly not seen to have any control over the actions of his team - who are seen to openly ignore his assurances and critera. And more importantly - there is no indication given to our forum of any responsibility being taken or that anything will change as a result....................

The current Chief of the Mudcat Editing teams seems to expect to be shown gratitude by our forum for being seen to not only be unaware of the actions of his anonymous team - let alone in control of their actions.

I suggest that the posters to our forum are the important ones and that their contributions deserve to be seen to be better respected and protected than they currently are.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Nov 06 - 10:01 AM

It's not important Shambles. Your constant harping has made your complaints void.   You are like the drooling village idiot who rants and raves about something or other on a street corner.   People pass by without noticing, or they stop and poke you with a stick. Whether you are right or wrong becomes a secondary story.   You do not matter to anyone.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 03 Nov 06 - 10:13 AM

All of your posts in this thread would be deleted because you are attacking the internet board, the moderators and the owner. In most communities you would be banned from posting anything whatsoever. No other place would even give you one thread to bellyache in like Max does. You really have it good here.

And of course none of your posts would even appear on such sites - if you were not prepared to become a member of them. Unless of course you are a member of this one - who chooses for some reason to post here anonymously?

And in which case you (unlike others guest posters who post here but who are not members) would have nothing to fear from the changed proposed here to exclude them from posting here, made by the current Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team in his (for the record) statement and whick would explain why you appear to support such a radical change.

Like others here - you continue to defend the principle of 'moderation' whilst ignoring the reality of what is actually happening in practice. Which is the obvious abuse of the principle of 'moderation' you defend.

Rather than ignore it - can you please address and defend (if you will) that - not for the first time - the two entire threads which were 'silently deleted' by some anonyous fellow posters when there were no grounds to and when no one but the 'moderator' concerned was aware of this action? Do you judge this to be an acceptable practical example of the principle of 'moderation'?

Or an abuse of it?

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Nov 06 - 10:36 AM

Somebody wipe the dribble off his chin, and mop the flecks of foam off the walls of his padded cell please.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: catspaw49
Date: 03 Nov 06 - 12:51 PM

Shamby Pamby, on any other bard as our Guest states, this would have been an acceptable practice of moderation because off topic and clearly crappola threads are just zapped....period. You may find that becomes more (and not less) common around here in the future. What you also fail to see for some reason is that you too will be around here less in the future unless you stop these attacks on Max, his site, his team.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 03 Nov 06 - 01:04 PM

It had come to his knowledge, he said, that a foolish and wicked rumour had been circulated at the time of Boxer's removal. Some of the animals had noticed that the van which took Boxer away was marked "Horse Slaughterer," and had actually jumped to the conclusion that Boxer was being sent to the knacker's. It was almost unbelievable, said Squealer, that any animal could be so stupid.

Surely, he cried indignantly, whisking his tail and skipping from side to side, surely they knew their beloved Leader, Comrade Napoleon, better than that? But the explanation was really very simple. The van had previously been the property of the knacker, and had been bought by the veterinary surgeon, who had not yet painted the old name out. That was how the mistake had arisen.

The animals were enormously relieved to hear this. And when Squealer went on to give further graphic details of Boxer's death-bed, the admirable care he had received, and the expensive medicines for which Napoleon had paid without a thought as to the cost, their last doubts disappeared and the sorrow that they felt for their comrade's death was tempered by the thought that at least he had died happy.

Napoleon himself appeared at the meeting on the following Sunday morning and pronounced a short oration in Boxer's honour. It had not been possible, he said, to bring back their lamented comrade's remains for interment on the farm, but he had ordered a large wreath to be made from the laurels in the farmhouse garden and sent down to be placed on Boxer's grave.

And in a few days' time the pigs intended to hold a memorial banquet in Boxer's honour. Napoleon ended his speech with a reminder of Boxer's two favourite maxims, "I will work harder" and "Comrade Napoleon is always right"-maxims, he said, which every animal would do well to adopt as his own.

From George Orwell's Animal Farm

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Nov 06 - 01:08 PM

You have a very warped sense of values if you think that you could possibly compare Mudcat to Animal Farm.   Put your life in perspective!

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Wesley S
Date: 03 Nov 06 - 01:13 PM

Moderation n. 1 - The quality of being moderate; restraint; avoidence of extremes; temperance. 2. The act of moderating. 3. Without excess; temperately.

The Random House College Dictionary.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 03 Nov 06 - 01:24 PM

Yes, I think you may well be first on the list, my friend. It's time for you either to shut up, or to use a name and take responsibility for what you have to say. If you continue to refuse to use a name, you will be come a non-person around here, and every single message you post will be deleted.
Free speech is fine, but you're just a pain in the ass.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Blowzabella
Date: 03 Nov 06 - 07:26 PM

If I were your mother, I would knock all of your heads together! You all need to take a long hard look at yourselves and imagine what this thread looks like to someone viewing the site for the first time. This is probably the one that attracts you to look at - Does it look as if this site is populated by intersting people who want to talk about music???

No.

To Shambles, I would say - please stop, unless you've anything new to say - but if you have, ask to close this and start an dnew one

To everyone else - I would say, please stop this

It is now making the whole forum look ridiculous. It's not big, it's certainly not clever or witty...what is it meant to achieve??? Is it just the Mudcat version of pitch and toss? A way to while away time? Surely there are better things to do with it?

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 03 Nov 06 - 08:13 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Washing snotty handkerchifs
From: JennyO - PM
Date: 23 Sep 06 - 03:17 AM

It always amazes me, the people who come onto threads where the subject can be very clearly seen without opening them, just to read them and criticise us poor little plebs for wasting our lives on them. Obviously they don't mind wasting THEIR lives to do that.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 04 Nov 06 - 02:48 AM

Surely there are better things to do with it?

If we are already seen to intentionally limit the things we do with our forum and it is proposed that we intentionally limit these things even further - should we be surprised if this is exactly what we are seen to be doing?

Are you suggesting that we should make some sort of pretence that we are doing something other than intentionally limiting the things we do with our forum?

After all, it was the current Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team who now informs our forum, in a for the record public statement, 'that Mudcat is no longer a pleasant place to goof off etc' - but takes no responsibilty for it.

Do you agree with this and his proposed solutions - which are yet further limitations?

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 05 Nov 06 - 04:24 AM

To Shambles, I would say - please stop, unless you've anything new to say - but if you have, ask to close this and start an dnew one

If another can be started - what would closing this thread or indeed the closing of any thread achieve?

Why cannot all threads remain open, once they fall off the bottom of the index - as they once did?

Why would you think that my asking for this thread to be closed would be agreed to - when so little else of what I ask for is seen to be agreed to?

if you look back - you will see that this thread has already been closed once. As it was re-opened at my request and I now struggle to post my views anywhere but in this thread - even if such a request were to be granted to a thread's originator - it is highly unlikely that I would be making such a request.

And anyway - it has yet to be established if a thread's originator has much sway in such matters. For the usual double standard is seen to apply here also.

Once a thread is started - its originator can make such request - and if it suits them and our 'moderators' wish to close it - they will ingore any wishes of any other contributor to that thread and subject the thread to imposed closure.

If it does not suit them and our 'moderators' do not wish to close it - they will inform our forum that threads are a joint effort and the originator's wishes have no merit.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 05 Nov 06 - 05:52 AM

"current Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team who now informs our forum"

That was actually quite a long time ago. He's still around which is evidence that he has changed his mind. I suppose I could accuse you of lying when you use the word "now" but I wouldn't want to judge your worth.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: JennyO
Date: 05 Nov 06 - 06:22 AM

Shambles, you DO realise my quotes don't come free. That one will cost you $5, thank you.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 05 Nov 06 - 07:48 AM

That was actually quite a long time ago. He's still around which is evidence that he has changed his mind. I suppose I could accuse you of lying when you use the word "now" but I wouldn't want to judge your worth.

You wouldn't? It appears that is only what you do post here to do. That and to accuse me of lying and just about every wrong and to ignore the issue?

But - just for the record. the current chief of the Mudcat Editing Team had not changed his mind on the 17th September. He may well have done now - but as he as yet to inform our forum of any change of mind - perhaps we can safely assume that he has not changed his mind - or his views of our forum expressed in his for the record statement?

Subject: RE: Please Delete Spam
From: Joe Offer
Date: 17-Sep-06 - 03:21 AM

Sorry, but I can't sift out all the Guest posts from the others, without messing with a thread more than I feel comfortable doing. I agree that the conspiracy-theory posts add nothing to the thread, and tend to stifle real discussion. guess that's a good reason for blocking Guest posts in the non-music section.
-Joe Offer-

You could always just ask him?

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Nov 06 - 10:29 AM

With every passing day Shambles is growing more and more incoherent. His postings make very little sense and he cannot justify the points he is trying to make. Anyone who has the time to read through this thread from the first post to the last can easily see that he has a problem and none of the posters are helping him.

In the real world, if Shambles falls off the deep end and does himself or anyone else harm people are going to look at these public postings "for the record" and point to many of you for pushing him over the edge.

Your retorts are not doing anyone good. Shambles does not want to discuss the issue because in his view of the world there are no other options. You can tell him that the sky is blue and he will fight you. It is just his way. Those of you who continue to post are probably suffering the same issues that he has. Most people can judge that his disagreement with his treatment and the way this site operates is really based on minor issues and out-of-context readings of other posts. His grandious comparisons to Animal Farm shows that he is living in a fantasy world and fancies himself to be some sort of messiah.

Walk away from this thread for your own good! The cheap thrills that all of you get by posting and arguing with him will only cause greater harm.

It would be in the best interests of the owners of this site to block all posts and delete this thread before some real harm is done.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Wolfgang
Date: 05 Nov 06 - 10:36 AM

Shambles,

do you know these form letters you usually get when you have made a very specific complaint about a product or about an action of the government?

Dear customer, we are glad you have bought...we always try do our best to satisfy the needs of our customers...we are very sorry that you didn't find our product to meet your expectations (so far, not a single sentence had anything to do with your specific complaint)... we do not understand how the ...function did not operate the way it should when it is switched on following exactly the specifications in the manual. Are you sure you have...

You must know those letters that are full of words that are (mostly) completely irrelevant to the very specific complaint or (very few of them) only remotely related to your letter and do never actually respond to the specific point.

I do not know how your feelings are when reading such a letter but I feel that I am not taken serious at all. I tend to think that the other person has not even bothered to actually read or understand my letter and only reacts to some trigger words ("not happy" requires a sentence including the word "sorry" but without any admission of responsibility). Then some preformatted sentences (see above) are compiled to an (at the surface) extremely polite letter which does not address my question or my complaint.

It is a parody of real communication and I sometimes get so angry that I write a really nasty letter (including some not nice words) back just to see (invariably) that they still manage to be extremely polite without giving anything resembling a response one does expect from a human communicator (contrary to a dumb computer).

I hate these letters and I think most people hate them as well. But I wonder why you insist on writing such posts that never (or rarely) respond to specific questions or complaints. Your posts very often mimic such form letters and are a parody of any real communication.

I agree that you have a heavy work load here being forced to add at least one new thread daily, to repeat all editorial remarks in normal posts as a service to the readers, and to refresh all insults ever made to you once a month lest we might forget them. I also acknowledge that the wish to express simple things in a more elaborate language puts extra demands on your time.

But could you please check before posting whether the preformatted text fragments you use (that's what I hope for you; you wouldn't be so stupid to type the eight words you use to replace the three letters J,O,E each time anew, would you?) to compile a post fit the points they claim to respond to?

If you don't spend that extra effort your posts give the impression of computerised responses that never address the points made. They may even look like a refusal of communication.

Do you remember the Dubliners exchange? I did write that one of your statements was factually in error and how you could proceed if you wanted to contribute to the Dubliners discussion. The adult human way of responding would have been at least to acknowledge the error of fact and to post a thank you for the recommendations how to go on with that discussion.

Or take for instance your preformatted word processor fragment that you seem to like so much, namely that some poster only posts to pass judgement about a fellow poster. Could you at least check whether for instance the word "only" is correct in the specific context. Or, though I admit that is much more difficult to discern, whether judgement is passed about a person (as expressed in a word like "asshole" or passed about one idea proposed by the person. I've seen you using that preformatted word processor fragment in situations in which the judgement you refer to was only a small part of the post or there was no judgement at all of you but only judgement of one statement made by you.

In such situations, posting the usual fragment including the word "only" gives the impression that you have not read or understood what you claim to be responding to. One could even get the impression that you are as much interested in a real conversation as the person compiling the form letter I have used as an example of false conversation at the beginning of my post.

I'm sure you do not lie when posting something which is obviously not true, I'm also sure that I can be sure you are not unable to understand what you read or, that's a bit more difficult I admit, to understand what you write. It is surely only some minor slip or omission which makes your post look like being not an honest attempt at real communication. If you'd give your posts in addition to your heavy workload that extra bit of effort of proofreading, they might look a bit less like those form letters that as we know only aim at ending the communication in a superficially polite way without addressing the issues.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 05 Nov 06 - 10:40 AM

"That and to accuse me of lying and just about every wrong and to ignore the issue"

What?

You did lie when you presented that quote as representative of Joe's opinions NOW. You can't possibly know them as of NOW. And your next quote had nothing to do with the matter even if 17th September was NOW.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Nov 06 - 12:52 PM

"You could always just ask him? "

And you Shambles could always just send a PM to Max and ask him about everything that you are repeating again and again. I'm sure that Max can tell you whether he supports the moderators' actions and what he plans for the future of the Mudcat. Why keep going on and on and on in apublic forum when a simple message to the owner will clear everything up.

Perhaps then you will have nothing to complain about. That would probably be bad for you, however, because then you wouldn't have anything to fill your days with. Please get a life...any type of life...find a hobby...read a good book...go drinking with your friends...anything to stop rambling on and on and on and on and on and on.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Nov 06 - 01:27 PM

I just joined a new folk board. Here is the statement from the owner/moderator.

"We're gonna be very loose with the rules and minutia in the early days of this group, adding policy as we proceed and as necessary. We hope that this community can nurture its own culture and rules as we grow (in a collective manner), but as the moderator, I'll reserve the right to step in and nudge things along so as to ensure that the forum remains fun and useful.

For now, postings here MUST contain specific material that is FOLK MUSIC related. Down the road, if the group would like, we can create additional discussion areas for world events, politics, child rearing, religion or anything else ... but, for the time being, I'll be excercising my moderator's priviledges to keep the forum clear of non-FM tangents. We all appreciate your understanding on that front."

Shambles, please note that the moderator can "keep the forum clear of non-FM tangents" and that he will "ensure that the forum remains fun and useful". What chance do you think you would have of posting this crap there? Slim to zilch and slim just left town. By the way, it's members only. I have purposely not given the name of the site because I don't want some of the posters here going there and polluting it with pure and unadulterated crap. And, yes, I have become a member there and would do so here if it became mandatory to post above the line. I see no reason to join Mudcat just to post into this silliness below the line.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 05 Nov 06 - 02:14 PM

Here is the statement from the owner.

Since you are with us, you get to help us make the rules. Of late it seems that it is used for non-music related questions, comments, thoughts and stories. It may be like just a light conversation piece, or just killing time, or getting through a bad day, or anything non-academic (if you will). Or, just don't use it. It is what you make it. Don't sweat the rules, cause there aint none.
Max

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: catspaw49
Date: 05 Nov 06 - 02:29 PM

That statement by Max was made in the early days of Mudcat when it was much smaller like seven years ago!!! Here is a far more recent statement May 30, 2006) from the owner.

"Shambles: I just don't care anymore. You press your point, time after time, until you press too far and then complain about the check. You do this purposefully to prove a point, but in the end, you are a distraction from the real point of this site. You too, should bid farewell."

And then Shamby Pamby, only a few weeks ago Max was asked:"Please do something to control Shambles' constant babbling. It sure would be appreciated by a lot of people." His reply:

"Our priority number 2 is to beef up the back end security of the site so that we can confront such issues. I cannot currently effectively enforce a ban on the savy. It would be too easy for them to find a workaround and get back in, now angry. Trust me, this matter will be dealt with in time. Trust me, we working as hard as we can to make this happen as soon as we can."

You know all that Shambolina and still you persist. Do you ever write Max? Soon your ass will be gone if don't cease and desist slamming Max as you do. Stop now........Just a good piece of advice.


Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Nov 06 - 03:38 PM

The majority makes the rules. It's impossible to do what every single member asks for because they ask for different things. How can you satisfy those who want membership and those who oppose membership? You have to do what the majority asks for. You are the only one complaining about all of these things. Max is doing what makes the majority satisfied. The Mudcat doesn't exist just for Shambles.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Nov 06 - 03:48 PM

This has to be the Father of all BS threads...

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Nov 06 - 04:21 PM

Keep contributing to it McGrath when you have nothing important to say.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 06 Nov 06 - 02:13 AM

Some posters judge everything they say to be imposrtant - they are usually the same ones who post here judge that that what others may wish to say is not important (or is obnoxious or incoherent etc) - and can safely be restricted or prevented.

Is having other views present on our forum - but a small price to be willingly paid for the right to have your views present?

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 06 Nov 06 - 02:24 AM

Agreed, Roger, I would support your right to express your view on every subject on this forum - once.

Beyond that it is abuse of a right.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 06 Nov 06 - 04:49 AM

Agreed, Roger, I would support your right to express your view on every subject on this forum - once.

Beyond that it is abuse of a right.

I think that you may have posted that before?

But unlike me, you are still welcome to express your view on our forum in any thread you wish, as many times as you wish and using as many different names as you wish.

You would also be welcome to post to the effect of what a wondeful job our 'moderators' are doing - in any thread you wish, as many times as you wish and using as many different names as you wish.

Which would lead me to believe that it is what is who said and who may be (trying) saying that is now the real issue on our forum - rather than how many times it is said.

And that this concern that is an entirly bogus one. For even if the charge of repetition was a valid one - is it really the worst thing on our forum and would it really justify all the fuss encouraged to be made against and for posting restrictions to be imposed on one individual poster only for this so-called 'abuse?   

For no one is being forced to read or even open a thread - are they? And all posters can quite easily be encouraged to ignore anything that is not to their taste or which they may have read before.

Do you also consider it an abuse of a right for anonymous 'moderators' to be seen to repeatedly 'silently delete' entire threads and all their posts from our forum - when the (so -called) critera is seen not to be met?

Do you think that some steps should be seen to be taken to address this when it happens and in order to prevent this abuse from happening again?

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 06 Nov 06 - 05:49 AM

You can express your views on any thread you like Roger, just not the same view in every thread!
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: catspaw49
Date: 06 Nov 06 - 06:23 AM

You're great at repeating yourself but not too good at answering questions, so again:

That statement by Max was made in the early days of Mudcat when it was much smaller like seven years ago!!! Here is a far more recent statement May 30, 2006) from the owner.



"Shambles: I just don't care anymore. You press your point, time after time, until you press too far and then complain about the check. You do this purposefully to prove a point, but in the end, you are a distraction from the real point of this site. You too, should bid farewell."



And then Shamby Pamby, only a few weeks ago Max was asked:"Please do something to control Shambles' constant babbling. It sure would be appreciated by a lot of people." His reply:



"Our priority number 2 is to beef up the back end security of the site so that we can confront such issues. I cannot currently effectively enforce a ban on the savy. It would be too easy for them to find a workaround and get back in, now angry. Trust me, this matter will be dealt with in time. Trust me, we working as hard as we can to make this happen as soon as we can."



You know all that Shambolina and still you persist. Do you ever write Max? Soon your ass will be gone if don't cease and desist slamming Max as you do. Stop now........Just a good piece of advice.
What about it Sham??????



Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 06 Nov 06 - 06:24 AM

You can express your views on any thread you like Roger, just not the same view in every thread!
Giok

No - as this restriction does not apply to you and is only seen to apply to me - it is obvious that it is what is said and who may be (trying) saying that is now the real issue on our forum - rather than how many times it is said.

For you and certain other favoured posters are also free and encouraged to post only abusive personal jugements in any thread and to be seen to do this in an open attempt to try to prevent other posters from posting and drive them off of our forum. Like the following example demonstrtes:

I shall not sit around silent while some little obsessed wimp in Weymouth or thereabouts conducts a campaign of hatred against people who do a difficult job.
I am not one of your mealy mouthed, wishy washy, sit on the fence liberals, who goes out of their way to make excuses for axe murderers and the like. I call it like I see it, and I am as determined to stop Shambles as he is to stop Joe doing his job.
Yes I have a problem, I have a problem with people like Shambles being allowed to spoil this site for other people, for his being allowed to post his repetitive rubbish in thread after thread, in other words, I want him OUT.

There now, I bet that came as a total surprise to you guest!

Giok

And that despite (or because) of the following:

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Big Mick - PM
Date: 22 Sep 06 - 04:14 PM

I agree that if one uses personal attacks on Shambles, they will be eliminated. If they are responding to him, silly though I believe that to be, that will be allowed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------


Do you also support anonymous 'moderators' being seen to repeatedly 'silently delete' entire threads and all their posts from our forum - when the (so -called) critera is seen not to be met?

If you did - I suspect that you would not only be free to post this view in every thread - you would be encouraged to do so. Do do you agree and support this?

Do you also agree with the current Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team and judge that 'Mudcat is no longer a pleasant place to goof off' or have a discussion and do you also agree with the proposed solution?

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 06 Nov 06 - 06:26 AM

"Which would lead me to believe that it is what is who said and who may be (trying) saying that is now the real issue on our forum - rather than how many times it is said. "

Try it and see.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 06 Nov 06 - 06:40 AM

The goal is elimination
Of all duplication
Can't you get this into your brain?
I'll make sure that you will
Finally swallow this pill
As I will say it again and again

No, nothing you've posted has been deleted. It takes quite a bit to warrant deletion - direct attacks on people, racism, stalking, or frequent multiple posts of the same messages.
-Joe Offer-

Perhaps the following posters can be given an apology - for their posts were seen to be wrongly 'silently deleted' before the above assurance was given to our forum?

John 'Giok' MacKenzie
The Villan
number 6
GUEST,Jon
skipy
Divis Sweeney

And to the following - for their posts were seen to be wrongly 'silently deleted' after the above assurance was given to our forum?

Georgiansilver
number 6
Little Hawk
John 'Giok' MacKenzie
bobad
jacqui.c
Ebbie
MMario
Liz the Squeak -

And me.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Nov 06 - 09:27 AM

For even if the charge of repetition was a valid one - is it really the worst thing on our forum

YES!


and would it really justify all the fuss encouraged to be made against and for posting restrictions to be imposed on one individual poster only for this so-called 'abuse?

YES!!

Do you also agree with the current Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team and judge that 'Mudcat is no longer a pleasant place to goof off' or have a discussion and do you also agree with the proposed solution?

YES, BECAUSE OF YOU SHAMBLES! HOW MANY FUCKING TIMES ARE YOU GOING TO ASK THAT QUESTION AND NOT LISTEN TO OUR ANSWER?

NO ONE IS OWED ANY APOLOGY. YOU ARE A CRANK AND EVERYONE WHO IS POSTING TO THIS THREAD IS JUST AS NUTS AS YOU ARE. YOU ALL NEED HELP.

STOP POSTING AND WATCH SHAMBLES SELF-DESTRUCT. HIS DAY IS COMING.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 07 Nov 06 - 04:38 AM

Suddenly, early in the spring, an alarming thing was discovered. Snowball was secretly frequenting the farm by night! The animals were so disturbed that they could hardly sleep in their stalls. Every night, it was said, he came creeping in under cover of darkness and performed all kinds of mischief. He stole the corn, he upset the milk-pails, he broke the eggs, he trampled the seedbeds, he gnawed the bark off the fruit trees. Whenever anything went wrong it became usual to attribute it to Snowball. If a window was broken or a drain was blocked up, someone was certain to say that Snowball had come in the night and done it, and when the key of the store-shed was lost, the whole farm was convinced that Snowball had thrown it down the well. Curiously enough, they went on believing this even after the mislaid key was found under a sack of meal. The cows declared unanimously that Snowball crept into their stalls and milked them in their sleep. The rats, which had been troublesome that winter, were also said to be in league with Snowball.

Napoleon decreed that there should be a full investigation into Snowball's activities. With his dogs in attendance he set out and made a careful tour of inspection of the farm buildings, the other animals following at a respectful distance. At every few steps Napoleon stopped and snuffed the ground for traces of Snowball's footsteps, which, he said, he could detect by the smell. He snuffed in every corner, in the barn, in the cow-shed, in the henhouses, in the vegetable garden, and found traces of Snowball almost everywhere. He would put his snout to the ground, give several deep sniffs, ad exclaim in a terrible voice, "Snowball! He has been here! I can smell him distinctly!" and at the word "Snowball" all the dogs let out blood-curdling growls and showed their side teeth.

From Animal Farm by George Orwell.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Shambles & birthdays, why?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: RE: Open Letter to Max
From: Joe Offer - PM
Date: 25 Oct 06 - 01:42 PM

The birthday threads are obviously intended to be obnoxious, but the nice thing about them is that we can add actual music information to them and reverse the obnoxiousness.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 07 Nov 06 - 04:57 AM

Leon Trotsky was born this day (7th November) in 1879.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Nov 06 - 09:56 AM

You've got balls of brass to have the nerve to compare yourself to Animal Farm. What a stupid analogy. Wake up - you are not that important.

Do you also have nail holes in your palms??

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Wesley S
Date: 07 Nov 06 - 10:34 AM

Guest. Take a break. Go have a cup of coffee. Or tea. Play your guitar, fiddle, banjo or whatever. It's just not that important. Take a deep breath and exhale slowly. It's OK. Really.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST,the ghost of Vladimir Ulyanov
Date: 07 Nov 06 - 10:58 AM

Happy Birthday Leon.

You were always the smart one Leon. Joe could never understand you. I sometimes think you should have kept your mouth shut, somewhat. Played the game. Who knows, you could have defected to the U.S. and got a cushy tenure at Berkley.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Ebbie
Date: 07 Nov 06 - 11:51 AM

Shambles, sometimes a deletion is not as silent as you think.

Far from being owed an apology by Joe or the Clones (the Shambles 6:40 AM), I apologized to Joe. With good reason. I had exploded at 'Guest' (also with good reason, but I went beyond the bounds) and some people complained.

For the record, in my opinion, Joe Offer and the Clones do a good and essential job.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 07 Nov 06 - 12:56 PM

From: Blowzabella - PM
Date: 03 Nov 06 - 07:26 PM

If I were your mother, I would knock all of your heads together! You all need to take a long hard look at yourselves and imagine what this thread looks like to someone viewing the site for the first time. This is probably the one that attracts you to look at - Does it look as if this site is populated by intersting people who want to talk about music???


Possibly not - if they were viewing the non-music related section.

But our forum will look as it looks – why the idea that some sort of pretence should be made that is something other than what it plainly is?

----------------------------------------------------------------------
The following from Animal Farm by George Orwell.
It was vitally necessary to conceal this fact from the outside world. Emboldened by the collapse of the windmill, the human beings were inventing fresh lies about Animal Farm. Once again it was being put about that all the animals were dying of famine and disease, and that they were continually fighting among themselves and had resorted to cannibalism and infanticide. Napoleon was well aware of the bad results that might follow if the real facts of the food situation were known, and he decided to make use of Mr. Whymper to spread a contrary impression.

Hitherto the animals had had little or no contact with Whymper on his weekly visits: now, however, a few selected animals, mostly sheep, were instructed to remark casually in his hearing that rations had been increased. In addition, Napoleon ordered the almost empty bins in the store-shed to be filled nearly to the brim with sand, which was then covered up with what remained of the grain and meal. On some suitable pretext Whymper was led through the store-shed and allowed to catch a glimpse of the bins. He was deceived, and continued to report to the outside world that there was no food shortage on Animal Farm.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 07 Nov 06 - 01:04 PM

"It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than to open it and remove all doubt"

- Mark Twain

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 07 Nov 06 - 01:06 PM

I've stopped posting to this thread, but I've been observing. I hope others might try it and learn some of the things that I have by simply watching. No one wins, no one is right.   

I think we will be out of Iraq before this thread ends.

Have fun! I'm outta here, again.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Nov 06 - 02:13 PM

You'll be back Ron. You can't escape. That's why everyone else posts. I give you 3 days at the most.