BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Big Mick
Date: 23 Oct 06 - 10:36 AM

1200

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Big Mick
Date: 23 Oct 06 - 10:38 AM

Damn, just missed screwing you up. Shit!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 23 Oct 06 - 10:39 AM

Make that Lane and Swan then?

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: catspaw49
Date: 23 Oct 06 - 10:40 AM

Had it all planned out....multiple windows and all......I NEVER play this game because I never get close or I have to add 4 or 5 posts.....But since this is such a complete POS thread anyway.....WTF!!!!!

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Big Mick
Date: 23 Oct 06 - 10:44 AM

1205

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Big Mick
Date: 23 Oct 06 - 10:45 AM

1206

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Big Mick
Date: 23 Oct 06 - 10:45 AM

1207

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 23 Oct 06 - 10:48 AM

15:48 here

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Peace
Date: 23 Oct 06 - 01:16 PM

"What's a metaphor?"

Hell, I don't even know what a meta IS!

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 23 Oct 06 - 01:19 PM

Shambles, I have already answered your questions. Please refer back to my posts that are found among the nearly 1200 posts to this thread.

No harm in repeating it. For if you did provide it. I honestly don't know what it was. Perhaps for purposes of discussion - someone else may like to provide their answer?

Do you agree with the following statement? Which given the radical change to our forum which is suggested to solve it - is a crucial one.

And despite our best efforts, Mudcat is no longer a pleasant place to hang out and goof off or have a good discussion.

My view is that if anything is wrong it can easily be solved. As it is largely as a result of these efforts. Which are now seen to to limit and shape our forum to the wishes of a few posters, rather than be seen to enable our forum to accomodate many and varied requirements of the the majority.

I also consider that the public push to change our forum even further to a members only forum - is just the latest piece of limiting and shaping by a few posters to their requirements. And the statement - just another tactic by these few to achieve this end.

If those who make this statement and those who support them - really feel this our forum is now so poor- no one is forcing them to stay on our forum and not be able to be able to goof off or not be able to have a good discussion.

And as most of their efforts (on this thread) seem to be designed to prevent good discussion rather than contributing to this one - should they leave to start their own private members club - their presence on this discussion forum will not be missed.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 23 Oct 06 - 01:56 PM

Can't hold a discussion with someone who will only answer those questions that suit them, and ignore all others.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 23 Oct 06 - 01:57 PM

Yes, there is harm in repeating my views again, which are very evident elsewhere in this thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: MMario
Date: 23 Oct 06 - 02:00 PM

I ask you to clarify your point and you say that the question is irrelevant to the discussion?

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 23 Oct 06 - 02:02 PM

MMario & Giok - are you directing your last posts to me? I believe I answered questions and clarified my points numerous times.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Oct 06 - 02:03 PM

"If those who make this statement and those who support them - really feel this our forum is now so poor- no one is forcing them to stay on our forum and not be able to be able to goof off or not be able to have a good discussion.

And as most of their efforts (on this thread) seem to be designed to prevent good discussion rather than contributing to this one - should they leave to start their own private members club - their presence on this discussion forum will not be missed. "

What about you Shambles? You're the one who is doing the most complaining on "our" forum. Perhaps you should consider leaving and starting your own non-edited, say-whatever-you-want forum.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: MMario
Date: 23 Oct 06 - 02:19 PM

sorry ron, no my remark was directed at the Shambles.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 23 Oct 06 - 02:21 PM

and mine

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 23 Oct 06 - 02:24 PM

Thanks. Just checking!!   :)   It gets confusing.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 23 Oct 06 - 02:49 PM

If you truly wish to keep this on topic, you would not respond in public to the negative comments about you and defer all comments and responses of the type to private messages.

Ron - If posters were not encouraged to post only such negative comments - as if this could pass as discussion - I would have nothing to respond to and for you to judge me amiss for?

Perhaps you could ask that posters do not post only such things and refrain from this yourself?

So, short of members-only posting, what can we do to bring peace to this place? I'd rather have another solution, but I haven't been able to think of one.
-Joe Offer-

Can you think of any other suggestions?

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Big Mick
Date: 23 Oct 06 - 02:52 PM

Here's a novel idea for you. Let it go.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Peace
Date: 23 Oct 06 - 02:55 PM

"Here's a novel idea for you. Let it go."

Neat idea for a book. Good title, too.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 23 Oct 06 - 02:56 PM

Please do not cloud the discussion Shambles, and please do not put words in other peoples mouths. I did judge you "amiss". You should also state that it is your view concerning who is encouraging what sort of negative comment.   Nor do I have a reason to refrain either since my discussion is not of the same substance or concern.

I think the suggestion of members only posting has great merit.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Peace
Date: 23 Oct 06 - 03:12 PM

I do not see what is wrong with members' only posting in BS. Would you please explain that, Shambles? I fail to see how that restricts free speech.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 23 Oct 06 - 03:13 PM

I think the suggestion of members only posting has great merit.

Can you think of any other suggestions - for our forum?

If this is still a place to goof off and have a good conversation - why should our forum be changed so radically from the posting policy that Max has followed from the beginning?

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Wesley S
Date: 23 Oct 06 - 03:22 PM

"why should our forum be changed so radically from the posting policy that Max has followed from the beginning?"

Because things change. It's not the same forum it was 6 or 7 years ago. If Max wants to change HIS forum he can. And we can either like it or leave. Max hasn't asked me - and I doubt he will - but I'd like to see his Mudcat become a members only forum.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 23 Oct 06 - 03:26 PM

I do not see what is wrong with members' only posting in BS. Would you please explain that, Shambles? I fail to see how that restricts free speech.

Our forum has managed without this for 10 years - firstly is there any evidence that this proposed change (or anything at all) would bring about the peace required on our forum by the current Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team?

And if anyone is not happy with the current posting policy - what is preventing them from starting a forum with whatever policy they wish?

But that is only half of the proposed change. Because as a result of this change, non members unable to post BS, would then be free to post on the music section - the current Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team has offered to first review any post there before it appears on the forum.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 23 Oct 06 - 03:27 PM

No I can't think of any better suggestions.

The answer to your second question has been previously given, and my opinion doesn't matter anyway. It also has no bearing on whether or not there should be changes.   Change does not necessarily need to be made to "fix" something.

Plus, it is not "our" forum.   Damn.. I said that before.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 23 Oct 06 - 03:32 PM

"Our forum has managed without this for 10 years - firstly is there any evidence that this proposed change (or anything at all) would bring about the peace required on our forum by the current Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team?"

Along with many others Roger!

I know you like to blame Joe for everything that you don't like on Mudcat, but your statement is misleading. As your statements often are!

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 23 Oct 06 - 03:32 PM

" is there any evidence that this proposed change (or anything at all) would bring about the peace required on our forum by the current Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team? "

Evidence is not required to try something new.

"what is preventing them from starting a forum with whatever policy they wish?"
That question has no relevance. What does starting a different forum have to do with this one?    Change can still occur here.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Wesley S
Date: 23 Oct 06 - 03:35 PM

My I offer {pun intended} a suggestion? Perhaps the term "the current Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team " should be changed to "Max's chosen moderator". It would be more accurate.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 23 Oct 06 - 03:45 PM

Roger likes to think of Joe as a temporary appointee, it makes his Quixotic campaign seem a bit less pointless.
G.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 23 Oct 06 - 05:34 PM

That question has no relevance. What does starting a different forum have to do with this one?    Change can still occur here.

It is of course perfectly relevent. As for some time now, the first response encouraged to be made to any poster who would dare to make a suggestion for any improvement (that the few didn't not want implemented) - would be to tell that poster that if they did not like our forum - they were welcome to go elsewhere.

It is the current Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team who is publicly saying the following - And despite our best efforts, Mudcat is no longer a pleasant place to hang out and goof off or have a good discussion.

If this is the case - should he and those who agree with this be the ones to go elsewhere to indulge in the (questionable) merits of a private members club? For if our forum IS still judged to be a place to goof off and have a good discussion - there is no reason to change it - is there?

So is it or not?

We are back to our football game where the referees, are not satisfied with making up their own rules as they go along, being able to send players off but who now wish to kick the ball and join the teams and want to turn it into a diffrent ball game altogether.

Perhaps it is time to stop humouring such referees, accept that they will NEVER be satisfied and start enjoying the game without them?

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Wesley S
Date: 23 Oct 06 - 05:43 PM

To use another analogy we might say that the referees - appointed by the president of the league - have gone to dinner and ordered fish for dinner. However the private dining establishment they have gone to wants to serve them beef instead. So in a huff they decide to ride orange bicyles across town and have Tex-Mex food and pizza instead.

But wait - while eating pizza their bicyles are stolen and they have to ride the bus home. Whereupon they feed their tropical fish and go to bed. And in the morning they have blueberry muffins for breakfast. With coffee and green beans.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: catspaw49
Date: 23 Oct 06 - 07:32 PM

Excellent Wes!!! That's the first sensible analogy I've read here.

See, then you can alter it easily and see that if the Columbian supplying the coffee and Redneck supplying the green beans have a discussion and decide to jointly raise avocados the bus driver will have to revert to feeding the tropical fish and the cat which arrived after the kids left.

Really works doesn't it? Just the kind of thing that the Piss&Moanmeister can understand as it resembles many of his own postings!

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 23 Oct 06 - 09:05 PM

" there is no reason to change it - is there? "

There is no reason except for the choice to make changes for the sake of change. The host of this party can do whatever he wishes, should he choose. Nothing ANY of brings up including whatever chief cook and bottle washer on duty suggests, means anything.   Whatever suggestion is ultimately implemented or left alone is up to the host.

This discussion is getting to be like discussing the pros and cons of the sun burning itself out. Not a damn thing any of us can do except for complain.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 24 Oct 06 - 02:33 AM

Not a damn thing any of us can do except for complain.

Those 'moderators' who publicly complain about our forum thus: And despite our best efforts, Mudcat is no longer a pleasant place to hang out and goof off or have a good discussion.

And those who agree with this this and those who see the merits of a members only forum as the only solution - can leave and form one that is to their requirements. That will leave those poster who do not think this and who do not complain to concentrate in discussions on how to make Max's posting work - rather than finding fault with it.

And those who set the example of publicly posting only to complain about the worth of their fellow posters, to judge the threads and to intentionally find ways to prevent and restrict open discussion - can follow them - or stop.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 24 Oct 06 - 03:58 AM

Ach zo, today der Mudkatz und tomorrow de vorld, ve haff vays off
borink you till you leef, und zen ve are in sole charge ja?

For you Tommy, ze var ist over!

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 24 Oct 06 - 05:41 AM

Nothing ANY of brings up including whatever chief cook and bottle washer on duty suggests, means anything.

Careful Ron - that sounds close to heresy. Perhaps you would accept that everything that we post means that others are likely to follow this example?

And when the chief cook and bottlewasher on duty is seen to publicly suggest things like the following - that this example is likely to be followed by other posters? And that it certainly has been?

Shambles, go whine somewhere else, or maybe we should start threads about you and the sheep or something.
Joe Offer
-----
But Shambles believes in this sort of thing, so I think that maybe this would be a good opportunity to smear his reputation. Shambles, I'm sick of you and your shit
Joe Offer.
------
Ah, Shambles - we make an exception for you, since you seem to think it's a good thing to have personal attacks. We want to keep you happy, after all. Your whining is so annoying.
Joe Offer
------
Yes, I think you may well be first on the list, my friend. It's time for you either to shut up, or to use a name and take responsibility for what you have to say. If you continue to refuse to use a name, you will be come a non-person around here, and every single message you post will be deleted.
Free speech is fine, but you're just a pain in the ass.
-Joe Offer-
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not a damn thing any of us can do except for complain.

No Ron - that is the ONLY thing 'the chief cook and bottlewasher on duty' encourages you to do - by being seen to set the example of constantly complaining about our forum, blaming everyone else and taking no responsibilty themselves for what this example has created.

And when those posted complaint post are about our forum and other named posters such complaints are encouraged BUT NOT REFERRED TO AS COMPLAINTS.

The only posts that are judged as 'complaints' by 'the chief cook and bottlewasher on duty' are any posts that do not moan about our forum and fellow named posters - but are seen not to be in complete agreement with the many public complaints of 'the chief cook and bottlewasher on duty' and the example of posting behaviour this has now set.

What all posters can still do is to discuss this. I can only try to discuss it in this thread - in between the posts containing personal judgements of my worth, the recipes, jokes and the spam that the Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team has littered this thread with.

Despite all this - I remain a great supporter of Max and our forum. In order to continue to support our forum (with the example set by our 'moderators') In effect and along with this - I have been expected to accept a double standard of posting behaviour. Other posters may be prepared to support this - (openly or simply by not being seen to challenge it) but I see no place for this on our forum.

For being seen to support any part of this double standard of posting behaviour (even if you consider the end may justify the means) will just turn us all into hypocrites.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 24 Oct 06 - 06:13 AM

"Despite all this - I remain a great supporter of Max and our forum."

Poor Max; that's a bit like Sweeney Todd supporting the Barber's Union.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Oct 06 - 08:48 AM

Can someone perform a mercy killing and close this thread now? Better yet, can someone do something to stop these constant ramblings by Shambles. Hell, I'll even become a member if "our" site goes members only if that is the only way to shut Shambles up. At least then the act will be done and he won't have anything left to ramble on about.

Max, if you are reading this please do something to put Shambles out of our misery.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Tweed
Date: 24 Oct 06 - 09:22 AM

WAIT!! Don't close it yet Joe! There is still the matter of the errant manatees to discuss. Somehow the original thread was mistakenly closed but I have started a new one to deal with the migration of these lovable and delicious animals to Memphis.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Oct 06 - 09:35 AM

Hey Shambles, Your days are numbered!!!!

Subject: RE: Open Letter to Max
From: Max
Date: 24 Oct 06 - 09:17 AM

Our priority number 2 is to beef up the back end security of the site so that we can confront such issues. I cannot currently effectively enforce a ban on the savy. It would be too easy for them to find a workaround and get back in, now angry. Trust me, this matter will be dealt with in time. Trust me, we working as hard as we can to make this happen as soon as we can.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 24 Oct 06 - 09:44 AM

"And those who agree with this this and those who see the merits of a members only forum as the only solution - can leave and form one that is to their requirements. "

It just won't sink in with you, will it? It doesn't matter who has the better solution. It isn't your call to make. People can do whatever the hell they want as long as the host allows it. Change can come to this precious forum whether you like it or not, and whether your arguements are just or not.   You have every right to complain, and keep posting, but whatever is going to happen will happen regardless of your efforts, my efforts, or Joe's efforts.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Wolfgang
Date: 24 Oct 06 - 10:22 AM

I don't have a persecution complex - I am being persecuted. (Shambles)

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Oct 06 - 01:11 PM

Are you beginning to feel the walls closing in on you Shambles? Nowhere to run, nowhere to hide.

According to Max "Trust me, this matter will be dealt with in time. Trust me, we working as hard as we can to make this happen as soon as we can." That's about you leaving.

Maybe if you stopped ranting and raving then this can be prevented. No one says that you have to like what happens here. You just have to accept that you can't change it.

The clock is ticking...

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 24 Oct 06 - 03:02 PM

You have every right to complain, and keep posting, but whatever is going to happen will happen regardless of your efforts, my efforts, or Joe's efforts.

Do I still have this right?

It does not now seem as if I do.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 24 Oct 06 - 03:23 PM

You have the rights that have been made available to you as per the host.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Oct 06 - 03:48 PM

tick tock, tick tock. We will soon be members only Shambles and you will soon be history.

According to Max "Trust me, this matter will be dealt with in time. Trust me, we working as hard as we can to make this happen as soon as we can." That's about you leaving.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 24 Oct 06 - 03:49 PM

You have the rights that have been made available to you as per the host.

My rights are now different yours and every other poster - how do you know this is what our host has now made available to me - has our host told you this?

Our forum has certainly been told what restrictions the current Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team has decided to impose on my posting. Are you telling us that our host agrees with this?

Our forum has also been told that the current Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team that:
And despite our best efforts, Mudcat is no longer a pleasant place to hang out and goof off or have a good discussion.
And that:
So, short of members-only posting, what can we do to bring peace to this place? I'd rather have another solution, but I haven't been able to think of one.
-Joe Offer-
Perhaps you could tell us if our host agree with this as well?

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 24 Oct 06 - 04:03 PM

"Our forum has certainly been told what restrictions the current Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team has decided to impose on my posting. Are you telling us that our host agrees with this?"

Oh Roger why do you persist in regarding Joe and Max as two different entities? Max owns the site, Joe and others help him run it and maintain it, they are synonymous. Logic dictates that IF Max disagreed with what Joe is doing, then he'd stop him doing it, think about it man!

As CH said on another thread, and I agree with him for once, you seem to delight in going out of your way to prove all your detractors right, by constant repetition of questions you already know the answers to.

Many of your points are valid, but are lost in the constant fug of repetition. Remember the story about the boy who cried wolf.

Giok