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BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
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Subject: RE: BS: Suggestions for Mudcatter-made SS gifts From: The Shambles Date: 12 Oct 06 - 12:04 PM SS gifts - the mind boggles.......... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Suggestions for Mudcatter-made SS gifts From: Clinton Hammond Date: 12 Oct 06 - 12:08 PM Only yours Shambles... or what passes for yours. Damn good idea Kat!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: Wolfgang Date: 12 Oct 06 - 12:17 PM SO if you don't like the behavior you adopt it? No, I address it, so that next time Shambles may respond to a simple suggestion with a simple response and not try to make his response part of his obsession. Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: BS: Suggestions: Mudcatter-made SecretSanta gifts From: The Shambles Date: 12 Oct 06 - 12:19 PM My point is made and and at least partly taken. For my Mudcat Secret Santa - I would like all posters to be able to make nice long thread titles - like this one now is. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 12 Oct 06 - 12:32 PM You address it by adopting it? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: The Shambles Date: 12 Oct 06 - 12:33 PM O wad some Power the giftie gie us, To see oursels as ithers see us! It wad frae mony a blunder free us, (from Robert Burns: To a louse) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Suggestions: Mudcatter-made SecretSanta gi From: Clinton Hammond Date: 12 Oct 06 - 12:58 PM Can we please not have to endure this moron cluttering up this thread too.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: Bill D Date: 12 Oct 06 - 01:03 PM Amen.. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: The Shambles Date: 12 Oct 06 - 01:18 PM Art Blakey's birthday squabble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: The Shambles Date: 12 Oct 06 - 01:21 PM Art Blakey's birthday (11 October 1919) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 12 Oct 06 - 01:33 PM Well, I think the moderators should be applauded for doing their job. Adding "squabble" to the one thread makes perfect sense and the other thread remains to contain on target conversation about the topic. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: The Shambles Date: 12 Oct 06 - 02:01 PM Another gem from Snitchers Corner. Please remove Shambles |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: The Shambles Date: 12 Oct 06 - 02:30 PM Adding "squabble" to the one thread makes perfect sense and the other thread remains to contain on target conversation about the topic. That is your view - which unlike me - you are welcome to express on any thread you wish. But as all the hysteria and restrictions on my posting is justified as protecting our forum from 'duplicate posts' - and the 'hi-jacking' of threads - my view is that all of this anonymous imposition, suspicion, paranoia and fuss over creating two of these birthday threads on our forum - makes very little logical sense to me..... What would make sense is to enable all posters to make longer thread titles. See this (now closed) thread. TECH Longer thread titles please |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 12 Oct 06 - 02:38 PM "my view is that all of this anonymous imposition, suspicion, paranoia and fuss over creating two of these birthday threads on our forum - makes very little logical sense to me..... " I do agree,the fuss over the two threads make very little sense to me. The moderator resolved it, like it or not, and it becomes time to move on to bigger things. And I do agree with you Shambles, some of your threads are hijacked by posters (such as what occured in Art Blakely)without any reason. The topic is started, let it alone. There is no need for ANYONE to drift or attack. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: The Shambles Date: 13 Oct 06 - 03:09 AM Well, I think the moderators should be applauded for doing their job. Adding "squabble" to the one thread makes perfect sense and the other thread remains to contain on target conversation about the topic. Perhaps? I suggest that any applause be reserved for such time as there is any evidence that such actions are seen to be entirely free from any suspicion of being part of selective and personally motivated witch-hunt on our forum. For until other poster are seen to be able to post abusive personal judgements only and be safe from any censure and the 'hi-jacking of other threads by them containing this are NOT encouraged to be subjected to such a public frenzy - which seems to be reserved for selective posters only - perhaps any applause is rather hollow? For example. 2,600 Iraq civilians killed in September But the bottom line is always - is this action actually having any positive affect for our forum - or is it counter-productive? I think there is much evidence that this continuing patchy and unequal treatment of posters by our 'moderators' is counter-productive and very little evidence that it is at all effective. Nor what its aims are. Whatever these aims may be - they do not appear to include ensuring that our forum can continue to be open for the public's contributions - as it always has. There could be some suspicion that in fact (some of) our current 'moderators' are actually set on creating a situation where their favoured concept of a change to members only posting is considered by Max more favourable than it currently appears to be.
-Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: Wolfgang Date: 13 Oct 06 - 04:57 AM C'mon, Ron, when I make the same suggestion for the second time I'm already adpting Shambles? You must have read all that nonsense. But I'm repeating it once more: my first request: may I ask you here to include the respective date in the title. That would make these threads more user friendly. Shambles' response: Then rather that post here only to judge - please by all means place there anything that you judge would make those threads (and any other threads) more interesting and informative. I place only the little information I do to encourage others to post their contributions. I also learn a lot form this and also from surfing to find the information. That used to be the postive way things used to work on our forum - before posters were encouraged by the negative example given ONLY to pass judgements on the worth of a thread or post or of the worth of the poster and to call them names. And encouraged to simply swoon with horror at the thought of seing the titles of more than one thread at a time. If it is a thread with little information - why not encourage other posters to provide it? If a thread is questionably music related - then add it and attempt to keep it there - rather only judge it and than ask that it be relegated to the BS. These birthday threads were an idea to try and return some of the old spirit of shared fun and joint discovery that makes our forum different to those sites obbsessed only with order. To encourage the act of posting - not to find ways that CAN only inhibit the posting of reasonable discussion. Was that a normal response to a simple question? Something like "good idea" or "No, I'm not going to do that"? Nearly all of the "response" was completely unrelated to my question and made no sense in that context. As for the place there anything that you judge would make those threads (and any other threads) more interesting and informative that did miss my point. Whatever I add will not be in the title and therefore not show in the forum search which I prefer as long as the super search is not updated. I may want to look in a year or two who had birthday on a certain day and was mentioned already in MC. With the super search not updated this will be a time consuming and tedious task. When I asked him in this thread once more he reacted not like a more than 50 years old adult. Had he said anything clearly here and not acted like a child I would never have asked the same request in a music thread. I do not think that repeating the same question again and again and again after a clear response is a valid way of arguing. But if I have not read a serious response I may ask again. That's what I did. And I did include his first response so he could see why I was asking again. I did hope that outside of this Shamblecentric thread he would act a bit more reasonable than he does in here. I care about MC as a music resource and therefore I try to make it more useful whenever possible. I still think my suggestion to include the birth date in the title is a good one. Shambles was reading in(to) that request another attack upon his holy right to post in whatever way he likes. Since more than two years he does not react to simple suggestions or corrections of fact or questions how he has meant a post in any remotely reasonable way. He did choose in the music thread not to give me a clear response but to mention his crusade against the moderators: The problem - as you well know is that - with the longer names - ordinary posters like me - do not always have enough characters available to them to place the birthdate in the title. That had again no meaningful relation to my request so I did ask on for the simple reason that I did not understand the reasoning behind the words. (Same as you do when you ask him something) Finally then, for the first time Shambles gave a reason why he is not willing (he says "able") to follow my suggestion: I have already explained to you that with the number of characters available to ordinary posters - it is not always possible to include the birthdate in the title. When that problem is addressed and solved - I will then be able to do what you keep on requesting me to do. My God, if he had written something like that as the first response he could have saved a lot of typing and would not have ruined a music thread he had started. I clear English he says: I won't include dates in birthday threads even if it is possible as long as the moderators can use more characters in titles than I can. The reasoning behind this argumentation makes not much sense to me and once more reminds me rather of a stubborn boy than of a grown up person but it finally a clear statement. There is no need now any longer to repeat my suggestion more often than perhaps once a year. Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: The Shambles Date: 13 Oct 06 - 07:37 AM I clear English he says: I won't include dates in birthday threads even if it is possible as long as the moderators can use more characters in titles than I can. Wolgang: The way you have post this indicates that it is a quote. Perhaps you would confirm that it is not. In any discussion about what another poster should or should not place in a threads title - the fact that our 'moderators' still have more characters available to them for this purpose than ordinary posters is of course perfectly relevant. Especially when our 'moderators' are seen to judge our efforts to try and make thread titles informative as wanting - when they impose their judgement and use the additional characters available to them - to create a longer title. And to do this without the originators knowledge or permission. Ron - please make Wolfgang happy and tell him what he wants to hear. Please tell him that you agree that I am acting like a child and that he (and a few others) are not. The important point is that this situation is seen to place very little credit at all on any of us on our forum. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: The Shambles Date: 13 Oct 06 - 08:13 AM You may have missed the following editing comment, as it was inserted into an existing post (even though no editing action was imposed) and did not refresh this thread. Crap deleted and discussion moved here (click) to another thread on the same subject. Thanks for pointing that out, Shambles. -Joe Offer- [Sound of deafening applause] Thank goodness for all these tireless and selfless efforts - as a result of which - we can all sleep soundly in our beds all night. Or some of us can. Some of us wake up to find that we have judged, our posts are no longer there, no longer as posted or the the entire thread has been anonymously deleted, moved, combined or closed. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: The Shambles Date: 13 Oct 06 - 08:51 AM Wolfgang asks: Was that a normal response to a simple question? Perhaps you would have preferred a response like the following? Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: Big Mick - PM Date: 29 Sep 06 - 05:34 PM Request considered. Denied. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 13 Oct 06 - 09:27 AM So Wolfgang, if I am reading your posts correctly, you admit that you are acting just like Shambles? And that solves what exactly? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: GUEST Date: 13 Oct 06 - 11:05 AM There are numerous 'silent deletions' on threads. The queen is at it. Loves that edit button. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: The Shambles Date: 13 Oct 06 - 11:49 AM An offer not to be refused I have no idea what this thread was about and I don't expect that our forum will ever know. Some things are just none of your business, Shambles. Threads and posts that are spam, or sales gimmicks, do not require your input. It is neither sought nor desired. Mudelf |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 13 Oct 06 - 11:55 AM Life goes on. Again, I don't see this as a problem. It is nothing to lose sleep over, and I do not consider this censorship because of the way the site has ALWAYS been designed. The moderators (assigned by the owner of this site) can edit as they see fit. You have the right to complain, but understand they have the right to do what they do. Of course that is my opinion, and I realize that you have a different one Shambles. The fact will always remain, it is not our show. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: GUEST Date: 13 Oct 06 - 12:08 PM You have been told by an official editor, Shambles. TOLD, do you hear? Of course he has. Discussing it with him has been tried for years. Doesn't work, mainly because he doesn't want it too. No discussion. This is how it is. Mudelf |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: The Shambles Date: 13 Oct 06 - 12:18 PM The fact will always remain, it is not our show. The fact is that it does remain our show. It is not our anonymous Mudfelf's show? He, she or it is just a bouncer. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 13 Oct 06 - 01:19 PM "The fact is that it does remain our show. " No it is not. We are guests at their show. Bouncers rules, like it or not, is what we are required to live by. If you can't convince the host to make changes after all this time - it probably won't happen. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: GUEST Date: 13 Oct 06 - 01:43 PM Bouncers love KARMA. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: jeffp Date: 13 Oct 06 - 01:51 PM Actually, they are not the bouncers' rules. They are the owner's rules. The bouncers just enforce them. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: The Shambles Date: 13 Oct 06 - 02:12 PM Ron - Our bouncers are simply posters like you and I (except the masked ones) who were encouraged to have a say in the way our forum appears. All posters to our forum were encouraged to see and support our forum in a similar way – even if they were not all favoured with edit buttons.. Rather like the pigs in George Orwell's Animal Farm - posession of this edit button seems to lead them to now consider themselves to be more equal than others. It is not a question of our host making changes or not. I question why any 'moderator' who is not seen to be committed to supporting our host's continuing open invitation for the public's contributions and making this work - would now wish to continue. For there must be some question if they can be seen by our forum to be making their best efforts for our forum. It may be thought that those who openly call for a change to memebers only posting may have an agenda of their own. I suspect that if our host considers this to be a minority concern on our forum - he may well see no good reason to make any changes. But it is difficult for anyone to tell if this is really the case. As any poster who is seen to post anything but uncritical support of our 'moderators' - is considered to making a personal judgement of the individuals concerned (even the anonymous ones). Again you tend to support the principle of 'moderation' as an immovable 'done-deal' - whatever its effects - when my concern is more with measuring the effectiveness or the counter-productive results of this particular brand of 'moderation'. It seems that where there may be choice between obtain the same result through its imposition and other methods - the former will always be the preferred option – whatever the reaction. As think the following example demonstrates. Please combine threads?. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 13 Oct 06 - 02:26 PM No sense covering the same old ground, so I won't repeat myself. I've already addressed your points. The bottom line is - you have repeated your case numerous times and the host is not budging. You are either being played for a fool by the powers that be, or they just aren't understanding you. I guess there is also a third possiblity, the host doesn't care - yet. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: GUEST Date: 13 Oct 06 - 02:29 PM Two legs good, four legs bad. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 13 Oct 06 - 02:38 PM Didn't Orwell write that the other way around? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: Little Hawk Date: 13 Oct 06 - 02:59 PM The host clearly doesn't care enough to do anything about it...and I believe that would accurately describe the attitude of most of the membership as well. ;-) I mean, bitching about it all the time is one thing...but actually DOING something about it????????????????????? You GOTTA be kidding, right? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: Little Hawk Date: 13 Oct 06 - 03:01 PM That would require exercising some force of will! It would also take up a bit of time and EFFORT. And...and...being organized enough to make that effort effective too, eh? Geez. Whaddya want? Like I said, you gotta be kidding. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: Little Hawk Date: 13 Oct 06 - 03:04 PM Here's a heady idea. While we're at it, let's all put together a project to land on Venus! Yeah. I think that the membership and management of this here forum needs an objective they can really sink their teeth into, and this thread just doesn't do it. Not a big enough deal. We need a whole new and compelling reason to turn on the computer in the morning. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: Ebbie Date: 13 Oct 06 - 03:21 PM See, Little Hawk, that's just the kind of defeatist thinking I deplore. Mudcat's owner has not appeared to change his mind on the matter so it might behoove us to carry on toward the goal? (OK, everybody, on your feet. On to Venus!) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: Little Hawk Date: 13 Oct 06 - 03:25 PM YES!!!! ON TO VENUS! By God, I feel new energy pouring into my veins... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: Wesley S Date: 13 Oct 06 - 03:25 PM And what's wrong with Mars ?? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: The Shambles Date: 13 Oct 06 - 03:50 PM On to Venus |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: The Shambles Date: 13 Oct 06 - 04:01 PM [PM] Max Max's Thought for the Day - Aug 7, 2000 (43) A Rant (Pondering Aloud) 07 Aug 00 Max's Mudcat Job Description: To make sure the Mudcat works, technically. To continue to upgrade and enhance to compensate for increased volume. To add and edit features to make the Mudcat more usable and just plain better. To work with those who support the Mudcat and provide a resource to Mudcat users and the folk world in general such as Folk Legacy and Camsco Records. To help users with technical problems and login issues. Do you see what is missing? Well it's not missing at all. I AM NOT A THERAPIST. I AM NOT A BABYSITTER. I AM NOT A PROFESIONAL MODERATOR. I DON'T SETTLE ARGUMENTS. I DON'T CARE. I created a Web site, a discussion forum, a community about and for music. This is what I do care about. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy and am proud of the personal nature of our little forum here. I don't mean to discourage such activity, I hope it continues. However, I am not Dad in the front seat of the car trying to settle a dispute between the children in the back seat. I remember during the Congressional hearings about Clinton and Lewinski each Congress Person had a chance to address the Congress with a statement. One of our Congress Women used her allotted time to talk about her grandchildren. You see, everything said in the Congress is a permanent historical record. So in protest of the insane and pointless use of our powerful government's resources, she used the time, she used her reserved little spot in American History, to say Hi to her grandchildren and their grandchildren and so on. I also believe that the Mudcat is a historical record, and I am equally certain that it will last forever. A record of Song and Story and Life. A record of me, a record of us. A record that will exist forever. One that our grandchildren will see, and their grandchildren. My thoughts and feelings and silliness and actions are all on display here. for good. When I post a message, I might stop and think that about that. Good ol' Tom Jefferson always believed that you should judge your every action as if the whole world was watching. Well they are folks. and they will be forever. The first reason for everything I do is always the same. THE POINT OF THIS WEB SITE IS HAPPINESS If I can't get it or deliver it, there is no point, and POOF it's gone. Keep it light, take it easy, relax, enjoy your stay, and just be happy. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 13 Oct 06 - 04:04 PM "THE POINT OF THIS WEB SITE IS HAPPINESS If I can't get it or deliver it, there is no point, and POOF it's gone. Keep it light, take it easy, relax, enjoy your stay, and just be happy." Good words. I have not noticed those last two sentences before. They speak volumes. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: The Shambles Date: 13 Oct 06 - 04:12 PM Good words. I have not noticed those last two sentences before. They speak volumes. Yes good words indeed - there are many more such good words from Max. Sadly not everyone now seems to see it that way. Yes, I think you may well be first on the list, my friend. It's time for you either to shut up, or to use a name and take responsibility for what you have to say. If you continue to refuse to use a name, you will be come a non-person around here, and every single message you post will be deleted. Free speech is fine, but you're just a pain in the ass. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: MMario Date: 13 Oct 06 - 04:21 PM Okay - I am still trying to understand this: You have said you do not wish to tell Max how to run his site. You have said that you understand that the forum is part of Max's site. The moderators are delegated by Max to do the day to day running of the site; (which you have said you don't want to tell Max how to do) So why do you want to discuss changing things if you don't want to tell Max how to run things, when they are doing what Max has requested of them? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 13 Oct 06 - 04:23 PM "If I can't get it or deliver it, there is no point, and POOF it's gone. Keep it light, take it easy, relax, enjoy your stay, and just be happy." Sometimes you can't fight City Hall. Sometimes you need to pick your battles. It doesn't make you wrong, it just makes you smart. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: GUEST Date: 13 Oct 06 - 04:42 PM It's karma, man, karma. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: Big Mick Date: 13 Oct 06 - 05:22 PM Please note that the quote from Max that Shambles uses is from the year 2000. Here is a more current quote:
From: Max - PM Date: 11 May 06 - 10:43 PM I've got to tell you, I'm sick and tired of some of the crap that I've seen lately......... Shambles: I just don't care anymore. You press your point, time after time, until you press too far and then complain about the check. You do this purposefully to prove a point, but in the end, you are a distraction from the real point of this site. You too, should bid farewell. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: The Shambles Date: 13 Oct 06 - 05:33 PM And here is a bit more of that same quote that my friend Mick left out. Joe: Do I need to separate you two? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: Joe Offer Date: 13 Oct 06 - 05:37 PM 998 |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: Joe Offer Date: 13 Oct 06 - 05:37 PM 999 |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: Joe Offer Date: 13 Oct 06 - 05:37 PM 1000!!! |