BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 29 Sep 06 - 05:08 PM

"That is your opinion to which, unlike me, you are entitled to express in any thread on our forum."

Seems to me you've been expressing your uninformed opinions in other threads of late - including an uninformed judgement about the moderators.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Sep 06 - 05:15 PM

'The habit of keeping on asking the same question over and over again hoping to get the answer you want, is a form of bullying'

And to rephrase that sentence so that it has equal validity, assuming it had validity to begin with:

'The habit of keeping on giving the same answer over and over again hoping to get the result you want, is a form of bullying'


How many of you folks continue to gang up on Shambles and why? Is he touching your nerves? Bothering you? If so, why do you read his posts? Hell, I have seen at least half of you say at one time or another that the best way to avoid it is to AVOID IT. Fu#k's sake, take your own advice. You have begun to look like a collection of horses' arses.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 29 Sep 06 - 05:24 PM

'The habit of keeping on giving the same answer over and over again hoping to get the result you want, is a form of bullying'

You expect the answer to change? The answer is the answer. If you ask the question you must expect the answer. If you don't like it - tough - perhaps you shouldn't have asked.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 29 Sep 06 - 05:29 PM

"That is your opinion to which, unlike me, you are entitled to express in any thread on our forum."

That is not true. If I abused my postings and began similar posts to yours in non-related topics, I am sure that I would be reprimanded.

As for that lengthly clip from Joe that you posted - what does that have to do with anything? Again, give us bullet points. IF that post was meant to show that someone admited failure, I think you failed in your attempt.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 29 Sep 06 - 05:31 PM

Don't forget - The Mudcat cafe reserves the right to edit, delete, modify, etc any post. AS IS THE RIGHT OF THE SITE OWNER AND HIS PROXIES AS APPOINTED.

As if anyone would ever be allowed to forget this.

But I am not sure that this right is in question.

All that is being politely suggested is where and when this is judged to be necessary that it is always indicated and explained to our forum with an editing comment and that all editing comments are limited to only occasions when some form of imposed action has been imposed.

Can some of the witch-hunt explain to our forum what is so devilish about this?

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Sep 06 - 05:33 PM

I didn't. I was rewriting a quote by Giok who was addressing Shambles. Get your head out, will you? Into the light. BTW, I am not Shambles. I am someone who thinks the ten of you who don't like what he has to say should stop reading his posts.

Shambles, you begin to look better than the lot of them.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Big Mick
Date: 29 Sep 06 - 05:34 PM

Request considered. Denied.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 29 Sep 06 - 05:35 PM

Same answer. Nothing, it's just that they don't want the bother. They have enough to do as they have explained before.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 29 Sep 06 - 05:42 PM

And I was pointing out that your rewrite was a stupid statement. The answer is repeated in the hope that it will actually be read and understood this time.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Peace
Date: 29 Sep 06 - 05:49 PM

You are no better than Shambles. YOU do exactly the same thing you say he does. I tend to think most statements from you on this thread have been stupid. Piss off.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Peace
Date: 29 Sep 06 - 05:51 PM

Just so you know that your seemingly lily-white approach is so fuckin' transparent. Don't insult people and you won't get the insults back.

Subject: RE: Tech: Posting as Guest: Can Joe/Clones ID You
From: The Shambles
Date: 29 Sep 06 - 05:58 PM

You may have missed the following editing comment as it was inserted into an existing post and did not refresh the thread.

Actually, the moderators are here to help primarily with technical problems, not to be babysitters or a police force. Most "offensive language" is ignored, and we expect Mudcatters to ignore minor squabbling.
Stick to the topic, Shambles. If you go off topic and post your usual repetitive propaganda, your message will be moved to the current Shambles garbage thread. As long as you actually discuss with people and address the issues they're talking about, your posts are likely to be left alone.
-Joe Offer-

As your moderators are clearly still under the impression that their purpose is to protect posters from the abusive personal attacks referred to - [which was the topic introduced into this thread by its orignator and to which I was responding on-topic to] – perhaps this latest version of their role should be passed to them? Although the object of this imposed 'moderation' does seem to change......As do your determined attempts to try and prevent this poster from posting my views on the same basis as other posters.

[PM] Bert BS: Censorship on Mudcat (1009* d) RE: BS: Censorship on Mudcat 06 Feb 05

The only censorship on Mudcat is to delete deliberate personal attacks. If you are the victim of any other kind of censorship send a PM to Joe, Max, Pene or any of the Joe Clones (even me). I assure you that you will receive a reasoned reply.

Well, there are a few other things we delete - racism & hate messages, Spam, copy-paste non-music articles that fill more than one screen - I think that about covers it.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 29 Sep 06 - 06:03 PM

Deja vu?

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Peace
Date: 29 Sep 06 - 06:06 PM

All over again.

Subject: RE: Tech: Posting as Guest: Can Joe/Clones ID You
From: The Shambles
Date: 29 Sep 06 - 06:07 PM

You may have missed the following editing comment as it was inserted into an existing post and did not refresh the thread.

Actually, the moderators are here to help primarily with technical problems, not to be babysitters or a police force. Most "offensive language" is ignored, and we expect Mudcatters to ignore minor squabbling.
Stick to the topic, Shambles. If you go off topic and post your usual repetitive propaganda, your message will be moved to the current Shambles garbage thread. As long as you actually discuss with people and address the issues they're talking about, your posts are likely to be left alone.
-Joe Offer-

As your moderators are clearly still under the impression that their purpose is to protect posters from the abusive personal attacks referred to - [which was plainly the topic introduced into this thread by its orignator and to which I was responding on-topic to] – perhaps this latest version of their role should be passed to them? Although the object of this imposed 'moderation' does seem to change......As do your determined attempts to try and prevent this poster from posting my views on the same basis as other posters.

[PM] Bert BS: Censorship on Mudcat (1009* d) RE: BS: Censorship on Mudcat 06 Feb 05

The only censorship on Mudcat is to delete deliberate personal attacks. If you are the victim of any other kind of censorship send a PM to Joe, Max, Pene or any of the Joe Clones (even me). I assure you that you will receive a reasoned reply.

Well, there are a few other things we delete - racism & hate messages, Spam, copy-paste non-music articles that fill more than one screen - I think that about covers it.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 29 Sep 06 - 06:16 PM

Deja vu?

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Bill D
Date: 29 Sep 06 - 06:31 PM

I...I....hear....hear....an...an....echo....echo....

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Peace
Date: 29 Sep 06 - 06:50 PM

Here we go 'round the mulberry bush . . . .

Subject: RE: Tech: Posting as Guest: Can Joe/Clones ID You
From: The Shambles
Date: 29 Sep 06 - 07:16 PM

You may have missed the following editing comment as it was inserted into an existing post and did not refresh the (now BS) thread.

OK, Shambles, this is the third time you've posted this message - and it's more-or-less the same thing you've said hundreds of times. Does your ability to copy and paste make you feel like a real man, or what? Can't you carry on a discussion like a real human being? What IS your problem?
-Joe Offer-

Perhaps my problem is partly that I have only just discovered you have twice 'silently deleted' my post containing subjects for discussion from our forum?

A post that was perfectly on topic as it was responding to the topic of abusive messages introduced into the thread by its originator.

Is now OK for a thread to remain on the music related section as long as it contains only uncritcal praise for the efforts of our 'moderators'? But for it to be swiftly relegated to the BS at the first sign of anything other than uncritcal praise for the efforts of our 'moderators'?

Can you please stop all this macho nonsense and be seen to treat all posters equally as your actions to prevent posters from saying what you do not want to see - is making our forum look foolish.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 29 Sep 06 - 07:40 PM

"All that is being politely suggested is where and when this is judged to be necessary that it is always indicated and explained to our forum with an editing comment and that all editing comments are limited to only occasions when some form of imposed action has been imposed.

Can some of the witch-hunt explain to our forum what is so devilish about this?"

You did make a polite suggestion, and it was ignored.   Time to move on. If this were a business and you made a suggestion to the boss that he or she did not like, would you keep bringing it up like this? You would have been fired long ago.

Granted this is not a business. But it is also NOT a public forum. It is a privately owned website that the public is allowed to post in. There is no need for anyone to justify anything that they do.   The FACT they have given you explanations (which you ignore) and ALLOW you to continue posting is evidence of just how open and fair they really are. No other reasonable website owner would allow lengthy and fruitless bickering to continue on their site. Consider yourself privalaged.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Sep 06 - 08:01 PM

. . .or to have those against Shambles repeat themselves ad fuckin' nauseum.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 29 Sep 06 - 08:31 PM

or trolls

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Sep 06 - 08:41 PM

Troll with a name, troll without a name: same same.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 29 Sep 06 - 09:20 PM

not the same at all. You choose to be a guest so you can say things that you would not have the courage to say to a persons face.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Peace
Date: 29 Sep 06 - 09:29 PM

No, Ron. Wrong again as usual. I choose to be a guest just because. I owe neither you nor anyone else an explanation. As to telling you to your face--if we ever meet I will be happy to. Now why don't you and your fuckin' gang give it a rest. Your cheap shots at Shambles do none of you any honour.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 29 Sep 06 - 09:33 PM

I look forward to it.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Sep 06 - 09:37 PM

LOL

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 29 Sep 06 - 09:38 PM

LOL

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: jeffp
Date: 29 Sep 06 - 10:18 PM

Good job outing yourself, Bruce.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Sep 06 - 10:19 PM

No problem, jeffp.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 07:34 AM

Actually, the moderators are here to help primarily with technical problems, not to be babysitters or a police force. Most "offensive language" is ignored, and we expect Mudcatters to ignore minor squabbling.

Stick to the topic, Shambles. If you go off topic and post your usual repetitive propaganda, your message will be moved to the current Shambles garbage thread. As long as you actually discuss with people and address the issues they're talking about, your posts are likely to be left alone.
-Joe Offer-

After years of telling our forum that the object of our 'moderators' was to protect posters on our forum from abusive personal attacks - this and the use of offensive language - is now given the green light in an editing comment from the current Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team.

Mainly it appears because (some of) our 'moderators' wish to indulge in this along with certain favoured posters who have done little else but post only such things and have been encouraged to do so for years.

Now our forum is told that the main point of our 'moderators' and the focus of their efforts and resources will be focused on trying to prevent me (and me only) from committing the truly terrible Mudcat posting 'crime' of going off topic.......................No matter how petty and foolish this makes our forum appear.

So now we know. Or do we?

Since you are with us, you get to help us make the rules. Of late it seems that it is used for non-music related questions, comments, thoughts and stories. It may be like just a light conversation piece, or just killing time, or getting through a bad day, or anything non-academic (if you will). Or, just don't use it. It is what you make it. Don't sweat the rules, cause there aint none.
Max Explain the BS rules (52* d) RE: Explain the BS rules         26 Oct 99

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 12:09 PM

Posting as a guest etc

The above post has now been closed – with the following editing comment.

Subject: RE: Tech: Posting as Guest: Can Joe/Clones ID You
From: The Shambles - PM
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 10:38 AM

I respectfully request, as this threads originator, that it be completely deleted and not just closed.

Not too sure there is anything respectful about any poster requesting that the posts of others in a thread are all deleted.

I think the thread originator is correct in this case. The subject has been discussed, and now it's time to shut it down. Shambles, if you don't want threads like this to be shut down, don't take them over.
-Joe Offer-

If the thread's originator is judged to be corrected in requesting that the entire thread be deleted – perhaps it can be explained why the current Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team is only closing the thread?

I can only post my views.

I would like to add two more to the emotive list of terms that are used to judge the simple act of posting– taking-over and abusing.

All these terms really mean - is that someone does not agree with what you have posted.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST,Blind DRunk in Blind River
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 03:20 PM

You flipheads who keep comin' back on this endless FLIPPIN' thread oughta be put outta yer flippin' misery with a blunt objeck to the flippin' head, that's what I say! Flippin' SHUT THE FLIP UP!!! Jeezus. I ain't never seen nothin' stupider than this. Not even in the bars in Sudbury, eh? Not even in the joint! This is the flippin' END. This is the ultamate stu;pidity maxed out to the flippin' last flippin' degree POSSIBLE! If I was any of you what posted more than 10 times on this moron thread in the last month I would throw myself in front of a flippin' bus and end it all right NOW!

- Shane

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 03:25 PM

Shane! Come back!

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST,Blind DRunk in Blind River
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 03:54 PM

You oughta be so flippin' lucky, Ron! This is my last flippin' post on this useless flippin' thread, eh? I got beter things to do, like watch the grass grow, sleep or go out to the pastuer and milk the flippin' bull, know'm sayin'?

- Shane

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 04:07 PM

I got beter things to do, like watch the grass grow, sleep or go out to the pastuer and milk the flippin' bull, know'm sayin'?

No - can you use bullet points?

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST,Ennui 1st
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 04:57 PM

I wish I had a bullet to use, I could rid the world of a real anal retentive twit called Shambles.

Over to you Guest/Bruce!

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 05:34 PM

LOL! Good one, Roger... (about using the bullet points)

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST,Blind DRunk in Blind River
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 05:52 PM

Waht the FLIP! Whaddya mean, bullet points? I don't carry a flippin' gun, you bolthead! Guns are for cops and guys with really tiny little tools who think they can be big men by wavin' a gun in someone's face. Tehy don't flippin' fool me, eh? I know theer probliem. They can't get no sex anywhere cos of their tiny little tools. That is there problem. I dont' need no flippin' bulltet points to make my flippin' POINT. Got that, looser?

And know I am outta here. I mean it. This is my last flippin' post on this thread EVER. You are gettin' no more help from Shane. No way. If you don't like it, too flippin' BAD!~

- Shane

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST,Chongo Chimp
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 05:52 PM

600!!!!!

Bananas and drinks all around.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: gnu
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 06:09 PM

What happens in Blind River, stays in Blind River... unless Shane finds out.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Grab
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 07:27 PM

Joe: I have three Mudcatters on 100% review much of the time

Shambles: It must be quite clear from the special restrictions imposed on my posting only by the current Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team...

These two statements cannot both be true (emphasis mine to clarify)...

Graham.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 07:44 PM

Shane: Do you mind putting down that gun? Then I'll leave.
Joe Starrett: What difference does it make, you're leaving anyway?
Shane: I'd like it to be my idea.

Shane! Come back!

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 07:57 PM

After 600 posts it's a little like watching a cross between "Groundhog Day" and a train wreck.You feel compelled to look at it over and over again to see if something different it going to happen this time.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST,Blind DRunk in Blind River
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 08:01 PM

Flip.

What is your rpoblem, Ron? Look, man, if you wanna, like, join my fan club...and it's a big one, eh?....if you do, well, you gotta do a coupla things, okay?

First, I need a 2-4 of Molson Canadian and some smokes. Send 'em by bus to Shane McBride in Blind River. I'll pick 'em up at the bus station.

Next, do the "I'm not worthy!" thing five times. This is: you get down on your knees and say, "I'm not worthy!" and wave yer hands in the air and bow down yer head to the ground and come back up again. Five times. This will show, like, that you mean what you say and you respect me proper, eh?

And get somebody to film it, and send me pictures.

If you do these things, I will consider comin' back, okay?

Good enough.

- Shane

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 08:04 PM

Shane: You speaking to me?
Chris Calloway: I don't see nobody else standing there.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 08:25 PM

"I wish I had a bullet to use, I could rid the world of a real anal retentive twit called Shambles."

Dear Ennui 1st: Pardon me for saying, but you have used what is commonly called a comma splice in the above sentence. A comma splice joins two independent clauses with a comma when it should use either a semicolon or be split into two distinct sentences with a period. FYI.

Also, it's not nice of you to talk about killing people in that manner. If you don't mean it, it is just mouth. If you do, it is a felony. I have no idea what Shambles could have done to so enrage you, but it can't really be all that bad. If his posts piss you off so much, don't read them.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Bill D
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 10:40 PM

I shouldn't do this, but every now & then a slightly different point strike me.

"·... stop all this macho nonsense and be seen to treat all posters equally..."

But, they're NOT all equal. They start equal; that is, with equal privileges- just like citizens of a country. Then, if they do things that violate the standards (rules, laws, etc.), they 'may' be be treated as special cases and have some of those privileges restricted or revoked.

In a country or state, even if they don't break rules, they are not always treated 'equally', nor should they be...people with handicaps or special problems should receive extra help and understanding...etc.

This 'equality' thing is kinda of a slippery concept, Roger, and I have hinted at the point before. You post stuff that wears on the members & administrators alike, until you get someone to take a poke at you, then complain about the poke!
Equal treatment? You know my standard remark...you have even borrowed it...PIFFLE! If your posts go beyond general standards, your treatment "will not be seen to be equal".

Yep, I know, I have wasted my time, and I don't expect you to suddenly see the light...but, gee....I like seeing my brilliant analyses in print!

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 10:45 PM

Piffle

In One Man's Meat, E. B. White wrote the single line: "Remind me to discuss the necessity for reviving the word piffle."

I've found no further reference to the word in his writing. Perhaps we failed to remind him.

Because his words were always carefully chosen, we can trust that his request has much meaning. He wanted to discuss, not command. A distinct event must have triggered his thought, because a necessity is created when something has happened, not merely when someone ruminates. I suspect he wrote that line after he had endured so much piffle – among his acquaintances? in journalism? among politicians? – that he felt he must speak out.

Reviving a word suggests that it has no equal in our common discourse today. Why? Often a word goes out of use when it is presumed to offend. We no longer refer to a man as a scoundrel or describe a child as crippled. Bombast is now labeled debate-leading-to-compromise. It's now kinder to describe a liar as someone who is a little economical with the truth. Truth, which offends both as a word and by its very existence, has been sanitized and is now admitted into discourse only so long as it is understood to be subjective.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 10:46 PM

PART DEUX

Walker's Dictionary of 1821, which sits on my own book shelf, doesn't include the word. But a 1936 collegiate dictionary at my disposal, suitably innocent of the corruption of our speech by the modern indignation over our insensitive language – (too many precise words like piffle in the dictionary, too few useless but shockingly profane words, both errors in our lexicon corrected since the 1960s) – defines piffle as: trifling talk or action; stuff and nonsense; noun or intransitive verb.

Gossip, then? Sensational reporting and celebrity-worship? Political speech and correctness? What annoyed E. B. White that he would revive the word, no doubt in order to use it?

Among my treasures I have "a card," apparently one of a mass mailing sent in 1864, not handwritten but printed at my ancestors' local print shop in Farmington, Maine. For printing in their newspaper "false and libelous statements and innuendoes" about him, the author succinctly, scathingly denounces, to one and all receiving the card, that the editors of the Farmington Chronicle are slanderers and liars. There, he said it. I'll never know whether the accused fought back, through the mail or in the courts. But the scoundrels sufficiently annoyed the card-writer to occasion an eloquent outburst.

I don't imagine that E. B. White, certainly being aware how genteel folks of the past used punishing words with such effect, himself intended to disseminate that sort of an accusation, for which he needed the perfect word, piffle. I suspect instead that, due to some annoyance, the word came to mind, and he wished only to encourage its use that people once again might know there was a word for it, might identify stuff and nonsense, pomposity, perhaps, or gossip and call it by name; that, by knowing the word, people might use it, and by using it, might effect a shift in our culture away from tolerance of so much trifling talk or action.

(Just as it is widely held in some cultures that to know someone's name is to have power over him, to know the name for trifling talk or action, stuff and nonsense is to have power over it. Who hasn't had a vague, subconscious sense about something of which he didn't become aware and over which gain control until he could put a word to the sensation?)

I wish E. B. White were here in order that we might remind him. I'd be fascinated to know where he intended to go with it. To his memory as the all-time supreme keeper of words, I humbly pledge to revive the word, piffle.


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