Mudcat CD maybe?

Subject: Mudcat CD maybe?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Mar 02 - 12:38 PM

This is an idea that has come up in the New Jerry Rassmussen fan! thread, but it needs a new one of its own.

The suggestion is that of having some kind of compilation CD of Mudcatters, in the first place so we can get to know each other a bit better in terms of the common interest that brings us here in the first place - also maybe as a way of raising a little money for the Cat.

That thread is fairly short still, so I won't stick in quotes from it. I suggest that people interested in the idea open up that thread, read it, and come on back here to add their ideas and comments.

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Subject: RE: Mudcat CD maybe?
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 10 Mar 02 - 12:52 PM

See also  A Mudcat CD?

Subject: RE: Mudcat CD maybe?
From: greg stephens
Date: 10 Mar 02 - 01:06 PM

given the excitement, immediacy and eclectic nature of the discussions always on the go in the forum, how about challenging people to record a song chosen from those currently under discussion. Pick one day(eg toaday) some nerdy person o through the threads currentl visible and list all the songs mentioned. Then evrybody who cares to choose one and record it. Bags I "Railroad Bill". Would make a great CD and be a sort of time capsule of one day in the life of Mudcat.

Subject: RE: Mudcat CD maybe?
From: C-flat
Date: 10 Mar 02 - 01:56 PM

I think a C.D. is a great idea! I would buy it. I would imagine that many members here would love to contribute but , like me, might struggle with the technology. Would home made tapes have the quality needed to transfer on to C.D.? Would quality be an issue anyway given that for most of us it's just an opportunity to listen to each other? Would the songs need to be original material? I'm thinking here of copyright and royalty issues.

Subject: RE: Mudcat CD maybe?
From: GUEST,jaze
Date: 10 Mar 02 - 02:36 PM

Though I don't sing or play, I buy! This is a great idea and if it helps support Mudcat, all the better. James

Subject: RE: Mudcat CD maybe?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Mar 02 - 02:42 PM

Two new threads - sorry I didn't notice the other one. Maybe some clever elf will manage to merge them.

In the last one it was suggested by michaelr that "The problem I see with the Idiosyncratic Individual approach is that such an individual's personal tastes would influence the selection, thereby creating resentment in those people whose contributions are not selected."

My feeling is that this is liable to be the case with any kind of selection, and it's feel better to be left out because of the preferences of the Idiosyncratic Individual than because of some selection method that was supposed to representing the collective tastes of the Mudcat community (even though that would be completely impossible to achieve).

It occurs to me that a CD is only one way of achieving one of the purposes of this, getting to know what other Mudcatters sound like singing or playing. If somebody has enough webspace to spare, a sound equivalent of the Photos page in Mudcat Resources would be a way of doing that, using Real Audio. People could send in their tape or CD or MP3 or Real Audio track to whoever was doing it, and everyone could have one or two tracks of their choice, up there for anyone to click on any time they felt curious.

And people could use this to make their own selection of their favourite tracks from other Mudcatters.

With Real Audio it'd take about 100Mb for say 150 songs, I estimate.

Subject: RE: Mudcat CD maybe?
From: Amos
Date: 10 Mar 02 - 02:46 PM

I'm going to start a Songs of the Mudcat Songbook CD (Version 2.0) in the near future, for the simple purpose of supporting the 'Cat. Haven't figured out the logistics yet, but it 'll be just homebrew cuts from the Song Challenges and maybe a few others that are in the Songbook.

More as it develops.

Regards,

A

Subject: RE: Mudcat CD maybe?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Mar 02 - 02:55 PM

Pick up the ball and run, Amos.

Subject: RE: Mudcat CD maybe?
From: michaelr
Date: 10 Mar 02 - 03:40 PM

C-flat - I'd be reluctant to open the can of worms that is copyright issues, so I suggest that only traditional and original (royalties deferred) material be included.

McGrath - I like the idea of a clickable page, but you'd lose the sales-go-to-support-Mudcat aspect. Also, some people prefer to have an actual product in hand, rather than the whole thing being virtual.

Michael

Subject: RE: Mudcat CD maybe?
From: Amos
Date: 10 Mar 02 - 03:49 PM

Thanks, McGrath.

What we REALLY need is our Radio show back, fully funded and revitalized. One of its great virtuers was letting us hear each others cuts.

A

Subject: RE: Mudcat CD maybe?
From: Giac
Date: 10 Mar 02 - 03:57 PM

Amen, Amos! I really miss Mudcat Radio. Sniff, sniff. I miss Max and Mary Mack and Bert. ~:o(

A sample CD sounds like a good idea.

Mary

Subject: RE: Mudcat CD maybe?
From: alanabit
Date: 10 Mar 02 - 04:01 PM

I am sure that plenty of other Mudcatters have music on their home pages. Wouldn't it just be simpler to offer a simpler list of members' pages to click on to?

Subject: RE: Mudcat CD maybe?
From: katlaughing
Date: 10 Mar 02 - 04:22 PM

What does that benefit the Mudcat, alanabit? The thought was, like the calendars, that some profit would go to the Mudcat.

Home tapes can be made into mp3's easily. I still think this should be fairly inclusive with wide leeway on quality and ability; good showing of our diversity. An Eclectic Sampler.:-)

Subject: RE: Mudcat CD maybe?
From: Tiger
Date: 10 Mar 02 - 04:52 PM

I worked on one of these with a Jerry Jeff Walker fan group. A bunch of us got together and did about 30 of his songs as a tribute album.

It was lots of fun and we got some damned good stuff.

I'd love to join in on a Mudcat CD.

Subject: RE: Mudcat CD maybe?
From: cyder_drinker
Date: 10 Mar 02 - 04:53 PM

I would gladly record a track and send it (either on a CD or via electronic means) to the project. It would probably be a slow Irish air (on flute), cos that's what I'm into at the moment.

Subject: RE: Mudcat CD maybe?
From: bigchuck
Date: 10 Mar 02 - 05:36 PM

Sounds like fun, but fair warning, its a hell of a lot of work for some one(s). Both Commando and the Flatpick List do compilation CD's periodically (once a year for FPL). Usually they just about break even, but they are fun. Last year's was a 6 CD set that menbers bought for $35 a pop. Count me in if it gets off the ground.
Sandy

Subject: RE: Mudcat CD maybe?
From: Ebbie
Date: 10 Mar 02 - 05:38 PM

What fun! I'd buy.

Eb

Subject: RE: Mudcat CD maybe?
From: hesperis
Date: 10 Mar 02 - 08:52 PM

I'll definitely contribute. Either "Seal Woman" or "Gates to Worlds Unseen". "Seal Woman" is recorded and an mp3 already. Just PM me if you want it on the compilation, Amos, and I'll put it up where you can get it.

Subject: RE: Mudcat CD maybe?
From: Justa Picker
Date: 10 Mar 02 - 09:09 PM

I'm in. Just PM me as well.

Subject: RE: Mudcat CD maybe?
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 10 Mar 02 - 11:30 PM

I agree with Amos' on the MCR providing a great oppertuninty to hear others here...

For me though, the best way, (although some can't use it), Paltalk provides the best means of hearing others that I have come accross as its much closer to sitting down in the same room and playing together but that's just me and I am a live fan (and in honesty can't stand or cope with recording myself).

Jon

Subject: RE: Mudcat CD maybe?
From: katlaughing
Date: 10 Mar 02 - 11:33 PM

Jon, I have a professional cassette recording deck set up, so could record one off of you on Paltalk, with your permission of course. It'd be a shame not to have any of your great talent on a CD!

kat

Subject: RE: Mudcat CD maybe?
From: Peg
Date: 10 Mar 02 - 11:48 PM

I think it would be nice to have this available so people could play it on their computers AND a good old-fashioned stereo or boombox; not everyone has audio capability on their computers, and even some of us who do think it sucks, and gee whiz, isn't is nice to get away from the damn computer once in a while???

Oh, and I would be happy to donate a CD track singing some traditional song or other.

Subject: RE: Mudcat CD maybe?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Mar 02 - 06:14 AM

CD or clickable sound links - it's not a matter of either or. A CD would be fun to have, it potentially could be a way of getting some money into the Kitty, and generating support in other ways maybe.

A sound equivalent on the photo gallery would be a way we could satisfy our curiosity and get to know each other, and it's be totally open.

They satisfy different needs. We could do with both of them.

The CD needn't be a major operation, if it's decentralised the way I suggested. One person makes the selection from tapes/CDs/MP3's etc. Someone else puts together on a CD, with a bit of basic editing (making the volume level of the different tracks approximately equal, maybe some fade-ins and fade outs, and removing the crackles. Working from the CD the same person or someone else prepares the CD label and cover file.

Then for producing CDs themselves, this could be done on a decentralised basis - all you need to run off copies as and when people want them are a copy of the CD and the file with the label and the cover instructions to be used with some generally available programme like Adaptec. A smattering of people all over the place could do that, as and when requested by whoever was getting the orders with the money, and the costs could be reimbursed (or they might be dealt with as a donation by the people involved in some cases.)

Or of course it could all be done by some willing soul who'd take it all on, such as Amos perhaps, if that's what he'd up for.

Producing and maintaining an online Musical Gallery would be more of a task, since it would need to updated and so forth. But it wouldn't need to be very different from the photo gallery. Once again, it could be done in a decentralised way, with the actual sound files stored on different website, a few here and a few there. I'd be happy to find room for a dozen or so files. (But I'd jib at the idea of taking on the task of running the photo gallery as such.)

Subject: RE: Mudcat CD maybe?
From: Pied Piper
Date: 11 Mar 02 - 06:37 AM

All this sounds great.I should be able to get to the technology and donate some stuff. I'd imagine ther's enough contributers out there to produce at the very least a CD a year. Crackin idea All the best PP

Subject: RE: Mudcat CD maybe?
From: mooman
Date: 11 Mar 02 - 06:52 AM

I'd be happy to contribute (either something traditional or original) if the idea gets off the ground. This is an excellent idea.

Best regards,

mooman

Subject: RE: Mudcat CD maybe?
From: Amos
Date: 11 Mar 02 - 08:42 AM

Ya, hmmm... innerestin' project. Mebbe so, mebbe so.

Mebbe there'll be two CDs this year if I can get a coupla other things off my stack first. One for Songs of the Mudcat Songbook, and one for Ballads, Blues and Folk Songs from Mudcatters.

I need to ponder on this a tad, but y'all would do well to have some .aifs ready, or .wavs or .mp3s. Let's say between three and five favorites.

A.

Subject: RE: Mudcat CD maybe?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Mar 02 - 11:03 AM

A copy of my home brewed CD, mostly of my own songs, is in the post now, Amos.

Incidentally, I think there is only one song from the Mudcat songbook in it, this one, I'll see about digging out a few more. I've just been having a browse round the Mudcat Songbook - you know, I've got songs in there I'd totally forgotten about. And of course so many songs from other people I'd missed first time round.

There's a lot of stuff in there well worth pulling into the light. A CD of Mudcat Songbook Songs might be a great Keep-On-Getting-Well-Again Present to Áine. (What might be termed a kogwap...)

Subject: RE: Mudcat CD maybe?
From: InOBU
Date: 11 Mar 02 - 11:20 AM

Count me in, I will send a CD with the donated track to who ever we get to be the central techno-nerd. It may be best to centralize it in the Mudcat central high comand, so that they can oversee the $ and make sure they get the full benifit, though I COMPLETELY trust all my fellow cats, it is just that we folk musicians are not know for our ability to successfully manage money or tie our shoes.
Cheersm'dears, Larry

Subject: RE: Mudcat CD maybe?
From: InOBU
Date: 11 Mar 02 - 11:21 AM

are not known... I really can speak engilsh you know, Larry

Subject: RE: Mudcat CD maybe?
From: Spartacus
Date: 11 Mar 02 - 11:42 AM

I don't know if anyone is keeping track, but I would definitely donate a track to a mudcat CD. Who would master and print the CD? Would it be available only on mudcat? Give me some details man....

Spartacus

Subject: RE: Mudcat CD maybe?
From: alanabit
Date: 11 Mar 02 - 12:39 PM

Fair point Katlaughing. I would be quite willing to contribute either way - whether to buy the album or to contribute material (if anyone wanted it). My point was that I would like to be able to simply click on to other Mudcatter's homepages by going straight to one thread or folder. I would be very interested to hear what sounds fellow Mudcatters make and this would be a way of making it easier for me to hear them by making use of existing resources. Nothing against the idea of a CD at all. If we get one together I'll buy it.

Subject: RE: Mudcat CD maybe?
From: Bill D
Date: 11 Mar 02 - 01:13 PM

given the amount of talent represented among Mudcatters, the issue... after deciding it should be done.... is how many CDs!...and who would be on which in what order. First come, first serve?...exclusion of those (like me)who are not quite so....ummmm...'polished'? *grin*...

I am NOT trying to be a naysayer to a great project, just wanting to put all the cards on the table for contemplation. Perhaps it would be non-issue in such a friendly group *wide smile*, but there are egos...and this is MUSIC....

I really am all for it if it will raise $$$ and €€€ and £££ for Mudcat!

Subject: RE: Mudcat CD maybe?
From: Amos
Date: 11 Mar 02 - 01:22 PM

Well, I don't expect, if I open the floodgates to such a project (which i am inclined to do as soon as I can make room) that we will be flooded with candidates, if we stick to say three cuts per person.

And I think the editor, whoever it is, has to have design / editorial authority, providing he does it with grace and a generous spirit. I happen to be world-famous for those. (hahahaha) :>)

Seriously, I think we can count on a fair representation and a minimum of stubbed toes with sufficient communication. I am sure that the process of dialogue could be conducted in a way to satisfy all the crying needs, egos and foibles involved. You're right, this is music and there are egos -- but we are not children, usually! :>) Well...usually. ***bg***

Subject: RE: Mudcat CD maybe?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Mar 02 - 01:38 PM

A specific link to Mudcatters websites might be handy. Though of course we've already got a facility for Profiles (see alongside the photos in Mudcat Resources, which are on the Quick Link menu at the top of the page), with a place on it to indicate websites, and that's quite an interesting browse.

I suspect a lot of people never find their way there. It'd be interesting if a few more people put their profiles in; or their photos for that matter.

As for the money arrangements - I'd imagine all the money would be sent direct to Mudcat (or in the case of people in the UK and Ireland to the Friends of Mudcat account when that is set up.) Whoever produces and sends out the CDs could claim back the cost of postage and production.

That's be for online orders. I suppose if someone took a batch along to sell directly at a festival or something there'd be some other way of dealing with it. Most people are honest in small things like that. I don't think we are talking about the kind of sums that would tempt many people into ripping the Cat off.

Subject: RE: Mudcat CD maybe?
From: Amos
Date: 11 Mar 02 - 02:00 PM

Gee, Kevin, I never thought of that -- anyone who would be so tempted must be quite desperate indeed.

A

Subject: RE: Mudcat CD maybe?
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Mar 02 - 04:32 PM

I'd like to return to the selection issue. I would like the opportunity to hear everyone who takes the time to makes their music available, irregardless of the degree of polish, instrumentation and gimics. I suggested in Jerry's thread a cut off date for those who want to submit fir the first edition which may require three or perhaps four CD,s over perhaps several months. New Catters who come along will be included in a second edition which again may require more than one CD, but most likely would have fewer contributors. As for the selection from the contributors of the first edition, I would favor some type of random selection for the disc #1, #2, ect. but some manipulation of order within each disc so that there is some level of continuity. I would think at some point in time after maybe two complete editions have been circulated, a "Best Of" CD could be put together, perhaps with a little gloss that could perhaps be offered to the public and sold at events.

Subject: RE: Mudcat CD maybe?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Mar 02 - 04:38 PM

"I would like the opportunity to hear everyone who takes the time to makes their music available, irregardless of the degree of polish, instrumentation and gimics."

The sound file on a website at the end of a clicky really is the most practical way of doing that. In fact it seems to me it would be the only practical way. And as I said, that si in no way to dismiss the idea of a CD or a series of CDs, which I think is an excellent idea, and could be a useful fundraiser.

Subject: RE: Mudcat CD maybe?
From: Spartacus
Date: 11 Mar 02 - 05:00 PM

Im with Bobert on wanting to hear everyone. I'm also with McGrath on the clicky being the easy way.

I like Bobert - I like McGrath - I dont' know who I like.

I still want to submit some songs, so let me know what's going to happen when you all decide.

-spartacus

Subject: RE: Mudcat CD maybe?
From: Coyote Breath
Date: 11 Mar 02 - 09:07 PM

Bobert is right on. I can imagine that the diversity thus achieved would be awesome.

I have a couple of Civil War (US) things I'd like to do but aside from that I'd like to do whatever helps get this together.

Someone needs to be selected to honcho this CD. If I had the gear and the expertise I'd volunteer but if there is someone out there who has both, I'll help you in any way I can.

CB

Subject: RE: Mudcat CD maybe?
From: Amos
Date: 11 Mar 02 - 09:40 PM

I have the gear and can acquire the expertise but I don'thave a lot of time to spare right now.

I am sympathetic to wanting to hear everyone, which is why I suggested, say, three songs per performer for the second CD I mentioned, whose working title was "Blues, Ballads and Folk Songs from the Mudcat Café", or something like that.

At between 20-30MB per track in .aiff format, we can get about 26 tracks on a CD. If we produce a two-CD set in the first edition, we can up that to about 52.

I guess the question is how many 'Catters want to be on the First Ever Mudcat Commercial Collection CD??

But let me just caution you, if you cover someone else's song, the copyright business is your problem!!

A

Subject: RE: Mudcat CD maybe?
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Mar 02 - 09:48 PM

McGrath: Okay, the bobert says as he pulls the string that lights the bright red and blue neon sign that reads...."snoissefnoc eurt"... opps, I'm behind the sign. Lets me go around to other side. Ahhh... "true confessions". That's better. Now, I don't know if I'm speaking just for myself, and if I am please ignore the bobert ramblings, but I don't know how to do "clicky" stuff. I've been too busy beating on my poor ol' Martin for these years that everyone else was turning in to pinball techno wizzards and, hey, there may be others out there that just don't have the capabilities, haven't learned the secret handshakes and can't for the life of em' figure out how to share their music with a community they feel part of. But then again, the bobert may be the last of the Mohegans, and if this is the case then ignore this point of view.

Plus, I just like Cd's. You can take 'em with ya. You can make tapes from them and then listen to them in your car cassette player, if you don't have a car CD player. You can lend 'em to friends. You can stop 'em and run back a part when you're trying to figure out what someone is doing.

Man, if someone had told me ten years ago, when I was still palyin' LP's, that one day I would be arguing the case for CD's as being passe' technology, I'd have thought it crazy... but here I am spillin' my guts. Danged.

Subject: RE: Mudcat CD maybe?
From: khandu
Date: 11 Mar 02 - 10:06 PM

I do well to post a thread on the forum. I am technologically deficient. I have no idea what some of the things that have been discussed mean. However, I am not musically deficient! I would be zealously happy to contribute a recording to any cause that supports Mudcat.

khandu

Subject: RE: Mudcat CD maybe?
From: Charcloth
Date: 11 Mar 02 - 10:08 PM

I'd really like to have a sample of everyones ability & be glad to contribute a cut or two.
Charcloth

Subject: RE: Mudcat CD maybe?
From: erwanda55
Date: 12 Mar 02 - 12:04 AM

I'd be interested in getting a cd. What the heck is the clicky thing?

Subject: RE: Mudcat CD maybe?
From: Amos
Date: 12 Mar 02 - 12:12 AM

erwanda:

It is local slang for a link which, when clicked, takes the viewer to another page or place in a document. Rick Fielding was bemoaning his inability to make these links and called them "Blue Clicky Things" (because when you make one they turn blue like this.

See?

A

Subject: RE: Mudcat CD maybe?
From: katlaughing
Date: 12 Mar 02 - 01:04 AM

I don't think this should be laid at the feet of just one person. With that much material it seems we should have at least 2-3 people willing to do the initial work, i.e. deciding which cuts, fixing the levels, etc.

There are enough of us, also, who sing cowboy stuff, that I think we could have one whoe cd of just them, esp. if Norton1, Francy and a few others join in.

kat

Subject: RE: Mudcat CD maybe?
From: Mudlark
Date: 12 Mar 02 - 02:44 AM

I think this is a wonderful idea, particularly as I don't have the capability, being a lonely Mac user, to join in on Paltalk, and my real audio is defunct. I would like to both participate and purchase. However...

".aifs ready, or .wavs or .mp3s."

it total Greek to me. I have a pretty good mic and tape deck tho. Please give this technodunce a clue as to whether submissions on tape would be usable.

Subject: RE: Mudcat CD maybe?
From: katlaughing
Date: 12 Mar 02 - 03:41 AM

Mudlark, tapes are no problem. Anyone who wants to submit theirs on tape is more than welcome to send them to me and I will put them onto my harddrive, make them into .wavs or .mp3s and voila!:-)

Subject: RE: Mudcat CD maybe?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Mar 02 - 07:27 AM

I like the idea of a series of CDs a lot, and I get the feeling it's going to happen, and it'll be great fun, and there'll be some great music on it.

But even with a CD with 30 tracks, that's only 15 people at two tracks a head. I make it 51 Mudcatters with Profiles in the Mudcat Resources, and 180 with photos, and of course far more who aren't in either.

At present if I get curious about what someone looks like I can go through to the photos via the Quick Links menu, and quite often they'll be there. I'd like to be able to do the same to a Sound Gallery, and listen to a song or tune or two.

And it doesn't need hi-tech knowledge from the people putting in the songs and tunes - they just need to sing or play into a tape recorder and put the tape into an envelope, and send it some knowledgeable and helpful soul.

Of course all that would be dependent on having someone who could do that, and on the webspace being available. (And I'm not volunteering, and I haven't got the webspace.)

Subject: RE: Mudcat CD maybe?
From: Spartacus
Date: 12 Mar 02 - 08:35 AM

I shudder as I type this, but I could do some mastering...We should have one person per CD mastering the sound. The sound will be really inconsistent if you have 2-3 people doing it on different equipment in different places. If there is enough interest, maybe there could be a mudcat blues, american folk, western, irish, english, etc. CD. I would love to handle the american folk or western CD. (only because I don't know much about the Irish and I don't play alot of blues.... Someone let me know....

Spartacus