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Origins: Where is the house / Ou est la maison

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ALTEH BUCK
BORSCHT CIRCUIT WHOOPIE
DREMLEN FEYGL (Drowsing Birds)
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GUEST,Shelley Posen 20 Apr 18 - 10:24 AM
Monique 20 Apr 18 - 06:03 PM
GUEST,Mick Pearce (MCP) 20 Apr 18 - 06:14 PM
GUEST,Mick Pearce (MCP) 20 Apr 18 - 06:32 PM
GUEST,Mick Pearce (MCP) 20 Apr 18 - 06:47 PM
Joe Offer 21 Apr 18 - 03:10 AM
Monique 21 Apr 18 - 06:09 AM
leeneia 21 Apr 18 - 08:59 AM
Stanron 21 Apr 18 - 10:42 AM
GUEST,ST 21 Apr 18 - 12:22 PM
leeneia 22 Apr 18 - 08:42 PM
Joe Offer 23 Apr 18 - 12:16 AM
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Subject: Origins: Where is the house / Ou est la maison
From: GUEST,Shelley Posen
Date: 20 Apr 18 - 10:24 AM

I'm looking for the origins of a camp or children's song my mother used to sing us, in a minor key, that had an English verse, then a French one which was a rough translation of the first. What beguiled me as a child was the phrase, and its repetition, IN ENGLISH in the French verse, "that I used to woo:"

Where is the house and where is the street?
Where is the little girl that I used to meet?
Here is the house and here is the street
Here is [or: "But where is"] the little girl that I used to meet?

Où est la maison et où est la rue
Où est la petite fille that I used to woo
Voici la maison et voici la rue
Voici [or: "Mais où est"] la petite fille that I used to woo.

The minor melody, in numbers, is:
1 1 2 3 3 4 5 5 3 5
6 6 7 1 7 6 1 5 5 5
4 4 5 6 5 4 3 3 4 5
2 2 3 4 3 2 3 1 1 1

Thanks, all.

Shelley Posen


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Subject: ADD: Qui Peut Faire de la Voile Sans Vent
From: Monique
Date: 20 Apr 18 - 06:03 PM

If it's the English version of this one sung here, this sheet music reads that the tune is a Swedish folk one.

Adding text from Monique's link. -Joe Offer-

Qui Peut Faire de la Voile Sans Vent

Qui peut faire de la voile sans vent, qui peut ramer sans rames
Et qui peut quitter son ami sans verser une larme?
Je peux faire de la voile sans vent, je peux ramer sans rames
Mais je ne peux quitter mon ami sans verser une larme.

Qui peut voire un coucher de soleil sans que la nuit tombe
Et qui peut trouver le sommeil lonsque son coeur s'effondre?
Je peux voir un coucher de soleil sans que la nuit tombe
Mais je ne peux trouver sommeil lorsque mon coeur s'effondre.

Qui peut croire un instant a l'amour lorsque deux hommes se battent
Et qui peut oublier en un jour le monde et son massacre?
Je peux croire un instant a l'amour lorsque deux hommes se battent
Mais je ne peux oublier en un jour le monde et son massacre.

On est la maison, on est la rue, on est le petit gars que j'ai connu?
Voici la maison, voici la rue mais on est le petit gars que j'ai connu?


Where is the house and where is the street, where is the little boy I used to meet?
There is the house and there is the street but where is the little boy I used to meet?

    Monique, I know you won't approve of this without proper accents and other diacritical marks. Might you be able to post a corrected version? Thanks.
    -Joe-


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Subject: RE: Origins: Where is the house / Ou est la maison
From: GUEST,Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 20 Apr 18 - 06:14 PM

See also this Mudcat thread: Lyr/Tune Add: Vu Iz Dos Gesele


Mick


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Subject: RE: Origins: Where is the house / Ou est la maison
From: GUEST,Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 20 Apr 18 - 06:32 PM

Even without the rhythm I think Shelley's minor melody is that of the Yiddish song. See (hear!) this example on youtube: Vu iz dus gesele?" (start at about 29 secs in)

Mick


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Subject: RE: Origins: Where is the house / Ou est la maison
From: GUEST,Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 20 Apr 18 - 06:47 PM

Here's my reading from the note numbers to fit the Yiddish tune.

Mick



X:1
T:Where is the house?
N:Conjectured reading from note numbers given by Shelley Posen
M:3/4
L:1/4
K:Dm
D D> E|F F> G|A A> F|A3|
B B> c|d c> B|d A> A|A3|
G G> A|B A> G|F F> G|A3|
E E> F|G F> E|F D> D|D3]


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Subject: RE: Origins: Where is the house / Ou est la maison
From: Joe Offer
Date: 21 Apr 18 - 03:10 AM

Interesting that this was translated into so many languages. My friend Mrs. Lev learned it in Russian. I wonder which language came first.
-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Origins: Where is the house / Ou est la maison
From: Monique
Date: 21 Apr 18 - 06:09 AM

Here it is with the proper accents, ligatures and space before the question marks (as before all "double" punctuation marks in Fr).

Qui peut faire de la voile sans vent ?

Qui peut faire de la voile sans vent, qui peut ramer sans rames
Et qui peut quitter son ami sans verser une larme ?
Je peux faire de la voile sans vent, je peux ramer sans rames
Mais je ne peux quitter mon ami sans verser une larme.

Qui peut voir un coucher de soleil sans que la nuit tombe
Et qui peut trouver le sommeil lorsque son cœur s'effondre ?
Je peux voir un coucher de soleil sans que la nuit tombe
Mais je ne peux trouver sommeil lorsque mon cœur s'effondre.

Qui peut croire un instant à l'amour lorsque deux hommes se battent
Et qui peut oublier en un jour le monde et son massacre ?
Je peux croire un instant à l'amour lorsque deux hommes se battent
Mais je ne peux oublier en un jour le monde et son massacre.

Où est la maison, où est la rue, où est le petit gars que j'ai connu ?
Voici la maison, voici la rue mais où est le petit gars que j'ai connu ?


Where is the house and where is the street, where is the little boy I used to meet?
There is the house and there is the street but where is the little boy I used to meet?


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Subject: RE: Origins: Where is the house / Ou est la maison
From: leeneia
Date: 21 Apr 18 - 08:59 AM

I have been playing 'Vo iz dos Gesele' a long time and know it well, and it is not the same as the tune for 'Where is the House?' It's similar, granted.

The sheet music Monique posted has some interesting chords for such a simple song. Thanks, Monique.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Where is the house / Ou est la maison
From: Stanron
Date: 21 Apr 18 - 10:42 AM

Here is an ABC from the notation supplied by Monique. As Leeneia pointed out the chords are interesting. Doubly so for me because this is the first time I've come across the fixed sol fa system where Doh is always C irrespective of key. Why would you not just put the actual chords above the music?

X:1
T:Where is the house?
N:
M:4/4
L:1/8
K:Em
"Em"E3FG2FE|"B7"B2B2"Em"B4|"Am"c3ce2"D"dc|"G"B4"Em"B4|
w: Qui peut faire de la voile sans vent? Qui peut ra-mer sans ra-me?
"Am"A3Ac2"B7"BA|"Em"G2G2"C"E4|"Am"F3F"B7"B,2^D2|"Esus4"E4"Em"E4||
w: Et qui peut quit-ter son a-mie sans ver-ser de lar-mes?


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Subject: RE: Origins: Where is the house / Ou est la maison
From: GUEST,ST
Date: 21 Apr 18 - 12:22 PM

For whatever childhood memories are worth, Granny said she'd learnt the Russian variant in Vitebsk in her own childhood, so it must have been around in 1910s or early twenties. It was still around in Siberia during my school years, 1970s, although we young bastards made highly despicable changes to the lyrics.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Where is the house / Ou est la maison
From: leeneia
Date: 22 Apr 18 - 08:42 PM

"Why would you not just put the actual chords above the music?"


Hi, Stanron. I guess people in Europe are just used to that system. People everywhere tend to stick with what they are used to.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Where is the house / Ou est la maison
From: Joe Offer
Date: 23 Apr 18 - 12:16 AM

OK, so here's Joe's theory: What Monique posted is a medley of Who Can Sail/Vem kan segla (Swedish) and Vu Iz Dos Gesele. The two songs have very similar tunes, and fit quite well together.

Here's cantor Jan Peerce singing "Vu iz dus gesele?" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bi91fhU54I4


Here's a recording of "Vem kan segla förutan vind" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekyzL8dhhIc


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