Subject: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. From: harry@opreith.freeserve.co.uk Date: 25 Nov 98 - 08:54 PM I am engaged in a long-term research project on the phenomenon of mixed language lyrics. I start from Irish/English, but have an input to Scots Gaelic/English, Welsh/English, Spanish/Catalán etc. I suspect that in modern terms, Macaronics has to do with languages/cultures in contact/conflict. My ideas are based on the Irish/English parameter, but I am sure that we are not unique in this respect. I would be grateful for any thoughts, ideas, examples, pointers in this field. I find it inconceivable that I am the only specialist in this area of study. Contact me. Harry O'Prey, 46 Brookvale Ave., Belfast, BT14 6BW, Ireland. |
Subject: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs From: Annraoi Ó Préith Date: 28 Nov 98 - 09:46 PM Macaronic Songs are songs in which more than one language is used for effect. The phenomenon is well-known in Ireland especially since the Seventeenth Century. However, I am convinced that it exists in other communities where two or more languages / cultures are in contact / conflict. Does anyone out there have any examples of same ? I seems to me to be a very neglected area. Annraoi |
Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs From: Barry Finn Date: 28 Nov 98 - 11:44 PM Hi Annraoi The area of sea shanties might be a type you'd be intrested in. With multi national crews trading songs, there seems to be a mix. I found a songs maybe 20 yrs back, the name I had for it was "Slav Ho" (see Colcord). The verses are in english & the chorus in ? (sounds like slav ho, slav eata, brav si ya marita, slav ho). About 3 or 4 yrs back I heard David Parry doing a full english version called the "Saltpetter Shanty" (see Hugill, Shanties of the Seven Seas). Also in his book find the interesting shanty "Eki Dumah" where the verses are in pidgin English & the chorus he belives in Hindustani. Both Hugill & Doerflinger have "Yaw, Yaw, Yaw" or "Ja, Ja, Ja" (yes, yes, yes), Dutch & again pidgin English. In Hugill's Songs of the Sea he has what he calls the "Samoa Song" in Samoan & pidgin English. Hope I've been helpful. Good Luck. Barry |
Subject: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixing From: Annraoi Date: 04 Dec 98 - 08:07 PM A thread some time ago resulted in only one reply. I find this incredible, especialiy in a multilingual situation as exists in the States. I have learned that songs using Welsh and English exist. What about Bobby Bob in Mann ? Do you have them oveer there? Slane lhiat |
Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi From: Bobby Bob, Ellan Vannin Date: 05 Dec 98 - 02:04 PM I'm having problems at the moment. I'll try again now. The short answer is no. Songs have generally been written Manx Gaelic with occasional loan words. There haven't really been that many in English about Mann. The most famous has been the 1853 song by Eliza Craven Green, an actress from Leeds who did summer seasons in Mann and loved it. The song has recently been recorded by The BGs, who were born in Mann. Most people seem to think they were born in Australia, but they emigrated later. So back to the original question, yes there are odd examples, but generally no. Shoh slaynt, Bobby Bob |
Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi From: Barbara Date: 05 Dec 98 - 03:26 PM I assume you are looking for something more complex than a song with a verse in one language and a chorus in another, since there are quite a number of English/Gaelic songs that cross that way. Like Shul a Roon (Irish)and Sad Am I Without Thee (Hebrides, I think). Is a Macaronic song one that uses occasional words from another language? It would help if you could explain what it is you are looking for. Thank you. Blessings, Barbara |
Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi From: Annraoi Date: 05 Dec 98 - 04:38 PM To Bobby Bob,Go raibh maith agat as an fhreagra. I'd be glad if you could let me know where I might lay my hands on those songs you mentioned. Shoh slaynt. Barbara. Thanks for your interest and help. Songs with foreign words scattered throughout at random are not covered by my idea of Macaronic. Rather,the use of two or more languages in a structured way. Thus, one might have alternate lines / couplets / quatrains / verses / half-lines even in the languages concerned. The use of the "other" language might be translatory or - more interestingly - as an integral part of the narration, if that is the type of composition involved. One example of the latter is "One morning in June agus mé 'dul a' spaisteoireacht, Casadh domh cailín 's ba ró-dhdeas a gnaoi," etc. A bilingual conversation might be the chosen form as in "Do bhí mé lá ar thaoibh an chnoic" where the ploughman and the girl converse in alternate stanzas, he in Irish, she in English. Is this any help? What is even more interesting is if the Macaronics is carried over in the metrics of the song. Ádh mór, Annraoi |
Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi From: Jerry Friedman Date: 05 Dec 98 - 04:40 PM I don't know about songs, but here's a macaronic bit of the poem "Philip Sparrow" by John Skelton, who lived around 1500, and who is the first person the word "macaronic" reminds me of. The poem is about the death of a pet sparrow.
Alas, it will me so |
Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi From: Annraoi Date: 05 Dec 98 - 04:44 PM Thanks Jerry, that certainly fits the bill. But my own interest is confined to the last three centuries and in living languages. But I very much appreciate the trouble you took to reply. |
Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi From: Jerry Friedman Date: 05 Dec 98 - 05:54 PM And thank you for being more polite than I was--I should have let you answer for yourself. If you're interested in pop songs, I can think of "Bei Mir Bist Du Schoen", "Vaya con Dios" (preferably pronounced in Spanish instead of "Di-os"), "Michelle", "San Tropez" (I think that's the name--"Viens chez moi, le soir ne va pas terminer, nous resterons toujours ensemble"--wow, not a single accent), and "Hey Baby, Que Paso". But I'll bet that's not what you're looking for.
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Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi From: Jerry Friedman Date: 05 Dec 98 - 05:57 PM I seem to have cut myself off there. I was just going to agree: I live in a bilingual area (English and Spanish), so I find it strange that I can't think of any bilingual songs. But then I don't exactly know all the local songs. I should add that I'm not sure of the title of the country song that begins "Hey Baby, Que Paso?" (Accents on the e and o.) |
Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi From: Martin Ryan Date: 05 Dec 98 - 07:11 PM Annraoi regards Yes, I know I should have done this in Latin, but the residuals are fading....... |
Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi From: Bobby Bob, Ellan Vannin Date: 05 Dec 98 - 08:12 PM Did you ever hear the song 'Deus meus' by Na Fili on their 'A Kindly Welcome' album? That's exactly the form, with a line in Latin, the international language, and a line in the language of a particular area, in this case Irish. I think pedantically speaking that a macaronic is actually Latin mixed with another language, but has come to be applied to any two language mix. I don't think the full lyric is given on the record sleeve notes - another piece of vinyl I can only sit and remember at the moment. The agonies of lost technology. Then again, after an unexpected storm whilst my son was on-line the other week, I can now genuinely include in a Manx phrase book, 'My modem has been struck by lightning'. My vannaght lhiat, Bobby Bob
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Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi From: Martin Ryan Date: 06 Dec 98 - 08:50 AM Bobby Welcome to the modem-struck-by-lightning club! Happened me about three months ago. Yes - I think Deus Meus was the one lurking in my head, alright. "Pedantically speaking" - what do you think the ethymology of "macaronic" is? |
Subject: Lyr Add: DEUS MEUS From: Philippa Date: 06 Dec 98 - 09:27 AM Yes, I would like the answer to Martin's question too. I think I've heard an explanation, but I forget it. See 'Gie Dedanken Sind Frei' in the DT. Second verse. Does it qualify? I'm looking for words for a Scottish macaronic I've heard, appropriately about a Highlander in Glasgow. If I get it, I'll post the lyrics. Are there any partly Yiddish Macaronic songs? Bobby Bob, if you want the words to Deus Meus; this is how I remember them - it should be substantially correct and maybe Annraoi or someone else can refine them.
Deus meus adiuva me,
Domine da quod peto a te,
Domine, domine exaudi me, |
Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi From: Annraoi Date: 06 Dec 98 - 11:17 AM Martin, bobby bob agus Philippa. Thank you all for your interest. The earlist occurrences of Latin/Irish lyrics date from the 7th Century and the "Deus Meus Adiuva Me" is a composition of the cleric Maol Íosa Ó Brolcháin who wrote in the 11th Century. This latter is still to be heard occasionally !! It has been recorded by several artists, including "na Filí" if my failing faculties delude me not. Your version, Philippa, contains some textual innaccuracies which I here set right, i gcead duit:- do dhearc = do shearc; a mhíchíl = a Mhic dhíl Dé; a ghrian ghlan gle = a ghrian ghlan ghlé; next verse- Tuum amoren sicut vis, Tabhair domh go tréan a déarfad arís (bis) Tuum amorem sicut vis. |
Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi From: Annraoi Date: 06 Dec 98 - 11:23 AM There I go again, repeating myself. I don't know how this happens. I try to compose long stuff offline and then post it online. But why the repetition ?? By the way, the origin of "macaronic" seems to stem from a mediaeval Italian practioner called Teofilo Folengo who likened this form of verse to macaroni. I don't think it really matters so long as we all know what we're talking about. Philippa, you mentioned a Scots Gaelic song about a Highlander in Glasgow. This sounds exactly what I'm looking for. Any chance of the words (+ Tune) ? |
Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi From: Philippa Date: 06 Dec 98 - 01:11 PM James Ross. 'A Classification of Gaelic Folk-Song'. "Scottish Studies" 1, 1957 pp 95-151. 2.2 [p.130] Macaronics "Macaronics, poems composed in alternating lines and phrases from two languages, one of them usually Latin, were fairly popular in Western Europe during the late mediaeval period. "Macaronic songs having both English and Gaelic words and phrases as compositional elements first appear in the eighteenth century. These songs are for a bilingual people and cannot be understood by reference to the English or Gaelic elements alone. The purpose of using the two languages where the poet could presumably compose in either one of them appears to be to exploit the peculiar humorous effects that can be obtained by the metrical combination of both languages. To the bilingual the chief humourous element consists of an exaggerated bathos." examples given: 1)Ma thilleas tu fhathast ' s tu m'aighear 's mo run [if you return, my beloved] perhaps I will marry you 's t-earrach co-dhiubh [in the springtime, anyway] 2)from a song describing a stay in hospital: O madam you surprise me bheil thu dol as do chiall, [are you taking leave of your senses?] chan fhaod thu tigh'n cho teann orm [you mustn't come so close to me] I'm minus all my gear 'S ann thuirt i 'd i smileadh rium [it's then she said to me] you're very shy ma's fhior [if it's true] ach chi mi aig an danns thu [but I'll see you at the dance] if you do not die in here. So these songs are sort of art form, a clever exploitation of bilingualism. They seem to me not to represent a conflict between the languages nor the adaptation of songs so that more people will understand them (rather the contrary), but a pride in being eloquent in two languages. It's like the bilingual jokes we have today, such as - What do you call the one-eyed Kerryman? Seán Ó Súilleabháin; What did the farmer say when he lost his mechanical baler? "An bhfaca tú mo Sheamaisín" Unfortunately Ross doesn't give a footnote to his first sentence about macaronics in Western Europe. Anyway, Annraoi, you said you wanted to study more recent songs, and I suppose your study could include other sorts of bilingualism in songs besides the sort represented in the lyrics quoted above. Ross does give sources for the excerpts of Gaelic song. You can look up the article as I imagine Queen's Uni. library would keep volumes of "Scottish Studies". Annraoi, did you get my private e-mail messages, such as the forwarded copy of Die Gedanken sind frei from the DT, and some ideas of who else you might get in touch with concerning your project? / I'm asking around for the song of the highlander's visit to Glasgow - I wanted the lyrics from ever I first heard it anyway, now you've given me the incentive to ask more people more persistently. I hope I'll get the words soon and can post them./Since you seem quite expert in this realm, could you do Mudcat a favour and correct the disgraceful transcription of an Ghile Mear that's on the DT? There was a recent thread on the song, someone saying the words on the DT didn't match the ones on the recording, so I looked at the DT and I was shocked. One problem seems that everywhere a 'é' is wanted an 'i' came out, so we see 'shiimh' and 'chiile'. Which by the way reminds me of the letter to 'Doire Cholm Chille" which ended up in Santiago, Chile - seriously; the incredible thing was it was posted in Galway. --sorry for going off on a tangent, bye for now - Philippa |
Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi From: Bobby Bob, Ellan Vannin Date: 06 Dec 98 - 04:18 PM Gura mie mooar eu - thanks very much. I hadn't been expecting to get the full lyrics for Deus Meus. For a meaning of "macaronic", I went to the Encyclopaedia Britannica, still keeping to the old name despite being printed in Chicago now. In Book 7, p. 603 column c there's this: "originally comic Latin verse form characterized by the introduction of vernacular words with appropriate but absurd Latin endings; later variants apply the same technique to modern languages. the form was invented in the early 16th century by Teofilo Folengo, a dissolute Benedictine monk who applied Latin rules of form and syntax to an Italian vocabulary in his burlesque epic of chivalry Baldus (1517; Le maccherone, 1927-28). He described the macaronic as the literary equivalent of the Italian dish, which, in its 16th-century form, was a crude mixture of flour, butter, and cheese. The Baldus soon found imitators in Italy and France, and some macaronics were even written in mock Greek. The outstanding British poem in this form is the Polemo-Middinia inter Vitarvam et Nebernam (published 1684), an account of a battle between two Scottish villages, in which William Drummond subjected Scots dialect to Latin grammatical rules. A modern English derivative of the macaronic pokes fun at the grammatical complexities of ancient languages taught at school, as in A.D. Godley's illustration of declension in "Motor Bus": Domine defende nos Contra hos Motores Bos ("Lord protect us from these motor buses"). The form has survived in comic combinations of modern languages. The German-American medleys of Charles G. Leland in his Hans Breitmann's Ballads (first published under that title in 1884) are examples of the modern macaronic, in particular his warning "To a Friend Studying German": Vill'st dou learn die Deutsche Sprache? Den set it on your card Dat all de nouns has shenders, Und de shenders all are hard." Thus the Encyclopaedia Britannica, anyway. Shoh slaynt, Bobby Bob |
Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi From: Susan of DT Date: 06 Dec 98 - 04:30 PM See the Boar's Head Carol and Old Bangum for Latin/English. Not knowing Latin, i'm not sure how badly corrupted the Latin in Old Bangum is |
Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi From: Philippa Date: 07 Dec 98 - 11:46 AM Bobby Bob gave us a bit from Leland from Encyclopedia Brittania. I found this excerpt from Leland on the web: "[OCTAVE DELEPIERRE ]often spoke of Breitmann's "Interview with the Pope" as his favorite Macaronic poem, which, as he had published two volumes of Macaronea, was praise indeed. His theory was, that as Macaronics were the ultra-extravagance of poetry, he who wrote most recklessly in them did best; in fact, that they should excel in first-rate BADNESS; and from this point of view it is possible that Breitmann's Latin lyric is not devoid of merit, since assuredly nobody ever wrote a worse. " The German lesson quoted reminds me of similar Germanized English that used to be in issues of MAD magazine - which I'm sure some Mudcatters can remember. And also - Annraoi will appreciate this - of the time someone asked me "Sprechen sie Deutsh" and without thinking I replied "Ní spreichim"! |
Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi From: Bobby Bob, Ellan Vannin Date: 07 Dec 98 - 06:37 PM I've checked on Manx macaronics. The only two I've come across are poems, one by William Kennish and one by Tom Shimmin. William Kennish wrote The Manxman's Farewell, which started like this: A Manninagh dooie, from the clean I was troggit Close by the foot of the bridge of Cornaa Whose keystone was fix'd in the year I was ruggit Three miles and a half from the town of Rhumsaa. A true Manxman, from the cradle I was raised . . . Whose keystone was fix'd in the year I was born . . . The Cornaa/Corrany/Corony Bridge was finished in l799. I don't know if this is the only part of the poem which is a macaronic, as I don't have a copy to hand. The rest of his output was in English about Mann, and not without folkloric and historic interest. As a matter of interest, at the New York banquet to celebrate the opening of the Panama Canal, Ferdinand de Lesseps praised William Kennish as the man who had discovered the only possible route to join the Atlantic and Pacific without using locks. This would have been via two navigable rivers in Ecuador which he proposed to join by means of a 3 mile tunnel through the Cordillera mountains. Kennish was also an inventor who came up with a number of things used for many years by the Royal Navy. Anyway, that's William Kennish from the north of the Island. Tom Shimmin, from the south, was known as Tom the Dipper. He was something of a rag gatherer, but also a bit light-fingered. There was a story of how Tom was delivering some sort of sermon, and he got the people to look up to heaven. While they were looking up, he slipped a block of cheese under his coat. On another occasion, a shopkeeper saw him slip a pound of butter into his cap. So he invited Tom into the back room for a cup of tea in front of the fire. The shopkeeper amused himself watching Tom getting agitated, and going out with a cap into which all the butter had melted. At the age of 78 he built his Cottage in the Heather to live with his wife up in the hills. Tom the Dipper was a writer of doggerel, but he produced one macaronic. There are quatrains. This is already rather long, but if you're interested, I'll copy that for you as well. Mish, lesh firrinys, Bobby Bob |
Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi From: Bobby Bob, Ellan Vannin Date: 07 Dec 98 - 07:30 PM . . . seven quatrains . . . Gow my leshtal. Bobby Bob |
Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi From: Annraoi Date: 07 Dec 98 - 09:04 PM Bobby Bob, You still haven't answered my question - are you Bob Carswell who used to broadcast on Manx Radio some years ago. And do you know Seán Ó Brádaigh ? Shoh slaynt, Annraoi |
Subject: Lyr Add: TOM THE DIPPER'S MACARONIC From: Bobby Bob, Ellan Vannin Date: 08 Dec 98 - 01:39 PM Gow my leshtal. You may have noticed in one of my previous outings that I mentioned I'd been having trouble. One of them must have been my missing reply to your query. The answer is yes, and I still do my bilingual programme called 'Claare ny Gael' on a Sunday evening on Manx Radio, but now it's from 6.30 pm to 7.45 pm, and also goes out on AM as well as FM. We've also got a 15 minute bilingual magazine programme, 'Traa dy Liooar' on a Wednesday evening at 9.45 pm. The Claare ny Gael format is two distinct threads, one in Manx and the other in English, not the same stuff in both languages. The 'Traa dy Liooar' format is the same information in both Manx and English. And yes, Sean O Bradaigh has been an excellent friend to Yn Chruinnaght, the annual Celtic festival in Ramsey, and to the Manx language, which he and Blaanid have learned, partly through attending Dr Brian Stowell's summer schools, and mainly through much dedication and effort with the help of tapes and books at home in Ireland. But back to macaronics. This is Tom the Dipper's macaronic (eight quatrains - I can't count):
I was born at the Ynnagh where stands yon Big Mill
Not long I remained down there it is true
Not long I remained my youth to regale
I began to improve in the shoemaking trade
Full thirty long years - I then lost my bride
Bred and born in the Lowland I upwards would go
And shortly like Moses on top of the hill
Now I am getting old and death will devour Not exactly a comic verse, is it? I've thought of a couple more of short rhymes -
Cronk ard, high hill
Up 'faie Comish' and over at the 'Noe'
'faie Comish' is Comish's (a personal surname) home-field or flatt Hope I haven't bored you too much. Slaynt dy mie, |
Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi From: Jerry Friedman Date: 08 Dec 98 - 11:12 PM Wow. Philippa, funny you should ask about partly Yiddish, when there's a short Yiddish-Hebrew parodic macaronic in the "Tsena Tsena" thread (as you may already know). I love "My modem has by struck by lightning" in a phrasebook! Now what's the Manx for "My hovercraft is full of eels"? |
Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi From: Philippa Date: 09 Dec 98 - 06:37 AM From: allan.S Date: 07-Dec-98 - 07:40 PM We once sang a yiddish version that went Tzena, Tzena, Tzena, Ich hob faltza Tzena Teath, Teath, Teath I have false teath Allan's contribution reminds me of the way John Harley (and some others) sing the Gaelic 'Eilean nam Bo' - 'Bord na Móna, móna, Bord na Móna, móna, Bord Fáilte' (The Turf/Peat Board, the Tourist Board : Irish Gaelic titles that even the non-fluent know.) |
Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi From: Bobby Bob, Ellan Vannin Date: 09 Dec 98 - 01:45 PM Annraoi, as my original reply to your question didn't get posted properly, neither did my little tale of a macaronic written by me a good few years ago. I was at a festival in Cornwall, and I sang it as the first person up to break the ice in what was nominally a competition, but I don't think anyone took it too seriously. One of the judges was the late Brenda Wooton, and I think she was disgusted with my macaronic - not the content, merely the fact that there was English in it. My appalling singing probably didn't help either. But this, for what it's worth, is how it went:
One bright summer's morning, while going to Yn Chruinnaght Yn Chruinnaght is, as I mentioned, our annual Celtic festival in Ramsey (Rhumsaa). I forgot to ask how you come to ask about Radio Vannin and Sean, etc. And also to say that I understood your question in Irish, despite the funny way it was spelt :-) The phrase you're looking for, Jerry, is Ta'n saagh crowal aym lane dy astanyn. |
Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi From: Philippa Date: 09 Dec 98 - 05:24 PM A funny coincidence about Bob's surname. I attended a talk by Mark Wringe about Seon Carsuel, John CARSWELL, who was responsible for the first printed book (as opposed to handwritten manuscripts) in Gaelic, a 1567 translation of John Knox's Book of Common Order. Carswell included a statement calling for the publication of the Bible andother books in the Gaelic of Scotland and Ireland as they were in Latin and English. Carswell had classical training, so he used the learned form of Gaelic rather than the common local speech, but because of this training he used proper Gaelic spelling rather than the 'Gaylick' which Gaelic speakers who had only learned to read and write in English wrote. So it may be thanks to Carswell that in Scotland we don't write as the Manx do. Of the three presently used systems, Scottish, Irish and Manx, my amateur opinion is that Scottish Gaelic orthography best represents the sounds of the language. |
Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi From: Bobby Bob, Ellan Vannin Date: 09 Dec 98 - 05:49 PM We had Dr Nicholas Williams from UCD here for Feailley Ghaelgagh a week or so ago, and he mentioned an affinity with the 'Gaylick' spelling Philippa mentions. As to Bishop John, I doubt very much my family claims descendency. I have a feeling they were sheep stealers who left Scotland and changed the name to protect the guilty somewhere along the line. To Annraoi, I thought my reply to her question was lost during my period of strife, but actually it was posted to the Mrs McGrath thread, and read: Shen kiart, Annraoi, as ta mee foast jannoo ny naightyn myr ayrn jeh'n chlaare aym fastyr Jedoonee er Radio Vannin, 'Claare ny Gael'. Bobby Bob |
Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi From: Jerry Friedman Date: 10 Dec 98 - 11:52 AM Thank you, Bobby Bob! I now have to learn Manx Gaelic so I'll be able to give your translation the laughter it deserves. But that's nothing to the time I now have to spend looking for an occasion to use that sentence. Thanks also to everyone who has allowed me to interrupt this fascinating thread with trivialities. Shoh slaynt, whatever that means, Jerry |
Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi From: the doppelganger Date: 10 Dec 98 - 03:39 PM Subject: RE: Lyrics for Tzena, Tzena From: Jerry Friedman Date: 10-Dec-98 - 11:39 AM Another treat, on a public-TV special, was Arlo Guthrie explaining this as a Gaelic folksong about sweet young Tsena Tsena Tsena Tsena, who is in love with "handsome, heavy-duty Alna Alna Alna Alna". |
Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi From: Wallace Date: 10 Dec 98 - 08:06 PM Another heavy-handed Anglo-saxon attempt at wit. When willthey ever learn ? to coin a phrase. Wallace |
Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi From: Charlie Baum Date: 10 Dec 98 - 10:52 PM A Yiddish/Hebrew macaronic song that comes to my mind is "Lomir Alle Zingen a Zemerel" [Let's all sing a Zemer (Sabbath drinking song)]. The lyrics are in Yiddish, but give a translation and explanation of the the Hebrew song "Yom Zeh Mekhubad" {This is the Day Which Gives Honor]. Many of the words to the Hebrew song are embedded in the Yiddish, and the translation is largely comic. ("What does 'basar' [meat] mean? At the rich man's table, 'basar' is a slab of beef, but with us, 'basar' is a small taste in the middle of the stew." Likewise for "dagim" [fish] and "kol matamim" [all tasty foods]). Jerry Epstein of New York sings some Yiddish/English macaronic songs, many of which came out of the Yiddish theatre as it adjusted to an audience that was learning English. --Charlie Baum |
Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi From: Sandy Paton Date: 11 Dec 98 - 12:15 AM Greetings: You might want to check out "Perrie, Merrie, Dixi, Domini" in Linscotts Folk Songs of Old New England. It's a naive version of "The Riddle Song" with a corrupted Latin refrain line: I had four brothers over the sea, Perrie, Merrie, Dixi, Domini. They each sent a present unto me. Petrum, partrum, paradisi tempore, Perrie, merrie, dixi, domini. It goes on with such lines as "The first sent a cherry that had no stone. The second sent a chicken that had no bone." And so forth. Maybe Joe Offer, or one of the more experienced users of Digitrad, can help locate it here. I'm a novice who can only visit one area of the site at a time! There's also a neat macaronic song in Chapell (is the book titled Popular Music of Olden Time?) called "We Be Soldiers Three." It alternates lines between English and French. My wife and I sing it, but I can't write the French, I'm afraid. I'm a high-school drop-out, still playing catch-up.(:-)) But it, too, may be in the Digitrad data base. Sandy (Folk-Legacy's resident folk fogey) |
Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi From: Sandy Paton Date: 11 Dec 98 - 12:21 AM Oops! One of my "senior moments." I should have mentioned that Margaret MacArthur sings a version of the "Perrie, Merrie" riddle song. Hers, I think, is from the Flanders collection, slightly different from the Linscott version. Good though! Sandy (again) |
Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi From: Philippa Date: 11 Dec 98 - 11:53 AM Sandy - I remember that song! "We be soldiers three, Pardonnez moi, je vous en prie" - and it's in the DT (with only that line in French and not spelt Frenchly) Jerry - Have you pondered the etymological connections between 'shalom', 'Shoh slaynt' and 'so long' - it's been good to know you |
Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi From: Ralph Butts Date: 11 Dec 98 - 02:39 PM Freddy Fender's "Before the Next Teardrop Falls" alternates English and Spanish verses. .....Tiger |
Subject: Lyr Add: CIAD TURAS MHIC DHÒMHNAILL A GHLASCHU From: Philippa Date: 11 Dec 98 - 05:21 PM Here's a Scottish Gaelic macaronic: "CIAD TURAS MHIC DHÒMHNAILL A GHLASCHU" (Uilleam Marshall, an t-Eilean Sgitheanach)
When I came to Glasgow first
Am fuaim a bh'aig na tramway cars
Na fireannaich 's na boireannaich
Thog sin suas mo nàdar-sa,
Thàining an sin am polasman
Thòisich mi ri innse dhà,
Bha nàire mòr is mì-ghean orm
Thug mi taing gu cridheil dha I expect Bobby Bob and Annraoi will understand this song okay. Others may be able to read between the lines, but in case not, I provide a summary. A young highlander goes to Glasgow and is rather homesick for the peace and quiet of his homeland. He loses his temper when one too many spongers ask him for money, and belts the beggar so hard that he kills them. Fortunately for the highlander, the policeman who arrives on the scene is a Gael from the Isle of Skye who lets the young man off with a warning not to do it again.
The song is usually sung to the same tune as "I met her in the garden where the praties go". |
Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi From: Annraoi Date: 11 Dec 98 - 05:48 PM a Philippa, thug tu an sway leat !! That's just what I've been waiting for. Not great poetry, but comhartha go bhfuil an traidisiúin beo - the tradition is still alive out there. Tuilleadh, le do thoil. Ralph, Where might I lay hands on the Sp / Eng song or even a recording thereof ? Other folks , Keep them macaronics rolling. Annraoi |
Subject: Lyr Add: MAIDRIN RUADH From: johnm Date: 11 Dec 98 - 08:44 PM I dont have the Irish for this but Mary Ohara's Maidrin Ruadi is described as an example of a Macronic song, so I would think is In Dulci Jublio by Michael Pretorius , a classic Christmas song, and so is the classic Jewish joke Oedipus Schmoedipus--what's it matter so long as he loves his mother. Here is the English of MAIDRIN RUADH (The Little Fox)
The little red fox,
VERSE 1 As I was walking up over Sliabh Luachra |
Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi From: johnm Date: 11 Dec 98 - 09:02 PM Have no idea why this happened.
PICK UP
2 (In English) Good morrow fox, good morrow sir
3 Hark, jhark Finder Lily and Piper.
4 A distressed an sore heart to you, you bad fox
This is available everywhere.
In dulci jubilo,nun singet und seid froh,
O Jesu parvule,, nache dir ist mir so weh,
O Patris caritas, o nati lenitas,
Ubi sunt gaudia, nirgends mehr denn da,
Forgive all the duplications above |
Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi From: Barbara Date: 12 Dec 98 - 09:36 AM There is also an English/Latin version of "In Dulce Jubilo" to be found in the Oxford Book of Carols. It is a glorious song for the harmony and counterpoint. I believe the arrangement is Bach. (so the German/latin words above would be the first version) Blessings, Barbara |
Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi From: Philippa Date: 12 Dec 98 - 12:20 PM Does 'French at Killyloo' (separate thread) qualify? |
Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi From: Annraoi Date: 12 Dec 98 - 03:31 PM Not for me, sweetheart. Peppering foreign words throughout a text doesn't count. They have to add to the content in a meaningful way. Annraoi |
Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi From: Annraoi Date: 12 Dec 98 - 03:37 PM a Philippa, Bhí mé cinéal giorraisc. Gabh mo leithscéal, a stór. Shíl mé nach raibh tú le cuairt a thabhairt orainn go dtí i ndiaidh na Nollag ?!!! Just couldnt stay away, huh?. Nollaig shona agus Aithbhliain faoi mhaise duit, agus do Chaoimhín Ó Donnaille, agus do Iain Mac a' Phearsain, agus do Mharc fosta. Nach bhfuil sé ag caint liom níos mó ? Annraoi |
Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi From: Wolfgang Hell Date: 12 Dec 98 - 03:54 PM does anybody have more of the lyrics for Mary OHara's Maidrin Ruadh, mentioned by johnm above? Wolfgang |
Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi From: a short story made long Date: 13 Dec 98 - 05:06 AM "One young kingfisher once caught a stickleback in front of my hide and after a very superficial attempt to kill it preceded to try and swallow it. When the fish was half swallowed and still thrashing it became stuck. For 15 minutes the young bird tried to regurgitate the fish, shaking its head and wrenching at the fish, but it was stuck. By the time the bird managed to swallow the fish it had begun to shiver and sway on the perch. It had come very close to death and it was probably only the fact that the stickleback had suffocated whilst in its throat that saved it. I watched the same bird catch a stickleback the next day; it spent two or three minutes smashing the fish's head against the perch, killing it several times over, before swallowing it!" Charlie Hamilton James. Grantown-on-Spey: Colin Baxter Photography, 1987
|
Subject: continuation From: Philippa Date: 13 Dec 98 - 05:25 AM Excuse me, I pressed the wrong keys; I wasn't finished with the story. I just want you to understand why I didn't take down much or the song below; I was reading the above book with Celtic Connections playing in the background on BBC Radio Scotland. I was thinking about this example of bird learning (as opposed to instinct)and about the ambiguity of the penultimate sentence, and so on when I noticed the use of Irish in Bing Crosby's song "A Little Bit of Irish". Not a true macaronic of the type you require, Annraoi, but maybe something a bit like "Lomir Alle Zingen a Zemerel" as Charlie Baum describes it. The chorus goes:"Céad mile fáilte/Sláinte to you/And the top of the morning too" and the one verse I noted had something about "It's great how they greet you in Ireland...Learn the words so you won't have to guess" Wolfgang - I might be able to get you lyrics, but it won't be right away so I hope someone beats me to it Annraoi - yes, Mudcat is addictive and it's even bringing on a multiple personality disorder. Anyway I keep looking for messages from you! It's good that I will soon have a break from the web. Caoimhin knows all about my habits, but don't tell Iain and Mark. I've heard the Glasgow song a few times on Radio nan Gaedheal and live at sessions, but I haven't heard other Scottish Gaelic macaronics nor seen any published in books or in an Tocher. Your best bet would probably be the School of Scottish Studies archives - I've given you a start with the Ross references. You could also try Martainn Mac an t-Saoir, who is archivist for the new Dualchas project at Sabhal Mòr Ostaig. |
Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi From: dick greenhaus Date: 13 Dec 98 - 09:49 AM Viva La Companie! We have a serious problem with orthography, since my personal knowledge of, say, Gaelic (any flavor) is nil. As a consequence, I have to accept what's submitted. Any suggestions? |
Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi From: Alice Date: 13 Dec 98 - 12:59 PM Does "I Wish I Had the Shepherd's Lamb" fit in this category? This thread is now so long, that it may have been mentioned earlier. |
Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi From: Annraoi Date: 13 Dec 98 - 07:38 PM Dick, Carry on and don't worry. this is a serious thread with no unwelcome overtones.As far as I'm concerned, it is proving most instructive. I hope the same applies to the other contributors. Gaelic is not the only challenger to your orthographic expertise, seemingly, Vive la Compagnie! Happy christmas, Annraoi Alice, Maith thú. I'd forgotten that one. I think it just scrapes into my definition. Annraoi |
Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi From: Annraoi Date: 15 Dec 98 - 04:55 PM Coinnigí ag dul ! Keep it up, Macaroneers. Annraoi |
Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi From: Philippa Date: 16 Dec 98 - 04:52 AM I shall not be swayed. I'm going to rest on my laurels (for the time-being, that is). |
Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi From: Ralph Butts Date: 16 Dec 98 - 02:30 PM Lou Monte did a whole bunch of songs switching back and forth between English and fractured Italian, e.g.,
I'll Be Down to Get You in a Pushcart Honey ......Tiger |
Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi From: Alice Date: 17 Dec 98 - 12:02 AM Cruiscín Lán (does it qualifiy?) alice |
Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi From: Alice Date: 17 Dec 98 - 12:02 AM Cruiscín Lán (does it qualify?) alice |
Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi From: Annraoi Date: 17 Dec 98 - 02:04 PM Depends on the version. Which one had you in mind, Alice? |
Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi From: Alice Date: 17 Dec 98 - 08:38 PM The version the Clancy's recorded, 'Let the farmer have his grounds, let the huntsman have his hounds,' etc. etc., then the chorus is in Gaelic. alice |
Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi From: Annraoi Date: 17 Dec 98 - 09:41 PM Alice, Remind me of it again. That's one I don't remember. I thought I knew all the Clancy's numbers. Annraoi |
Subject: Lyr Add: CRUISCÍN LÁN (Clancy/Makem ) From: Alice Date: 18 Dec 98 - 01:17 PM CRUISCÍN LÁN (kroosh-keen-lawn) lyrics and phoenetic pronunciation as found in "The Irish Songbook, 75 Songs" Clancy/Makem published ©79 (copied here for educational purposes)
Let the farmer praise his grounds,
chorus
Immortal and divine,
chorus
When cruel death appears,
chorus
Then fill your glasses high,
chorus |
Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi From: Annraoi Date: 18 Dec 98 - 05:46 PM Gotcha, Alice. Thanks. How's the weather in Montana. |
Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi From: Alice Date: 19 Dec 98 - 11:45 PM minus 50 (f) below zero wind chill on the plains, but only minus ten below zero at my house |
Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi From: Annraoi Date: 20 Dec 98 - 07:57 PM Hello, Alice, At the moment it is -2 and we think it's hasky eneugh. Would your surname be Flynn, by any chance ? Annraoi |
Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi From: Alice Date: 20 Dec 98 - 10:08 PM yes, it is. |
Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi From: Annraoi Date: 22 Dec 98 - 05:04 PM I thought as much. It's a small world.Do you know anyMacaronic songs ? Annraoi |
Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi From: Alice Date: 22 Dec 98 - 08:47 PM Only Cruiscín Lán, and I sing Maidrin Ruadh all in English in a version I put together from O'Hara's album notes, so the only part of that I sing in Gaelic are the words 'Maidrin Ruadh'. Since I don't really speak Gaelic, I only sing what I have listened to for years and am sure of pronunciation. There is a Gaelic Immersion language, music, dance workshop for 4 days in January in Missoula, MT, but I can't attend, unfortunately. Does 'The Juice of the Barley' count? There are only a few words in the chorus in Irish.
And how did you know my name is Flynn? alice in montana |
Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi From: johnm Date: 22 Dec 98 - 11:16 PM My teacher taught/is teaching that course |
Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi From: Alice Date: 22 Dec 98 - 11:29 PM johnm, I called Sullivans tonight, because there are alot of us in Bozeman who would like to attend, but to drive that treacherous road in January weather and be gone from children for four days makes it impractical. It would be great to have the same classes in Bozeman sometime in the future (in better weather). alice |
Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi From: johnm Date: 23 Dec 98 - 10:16 AM The teacher is flying in from NY with her infant. I dont think she has ever been west of the Alleghenies before. She is a very good linguist and a singer to boot. You would enjoy her class |
Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi From: Philippa Date: 23 Dec 98 - 11:36 AM John, who is the teacher? I'm going to visit family in New York sometime next year, I think. Alice and Wolfgang - You can find the full macaronic Maidrin Rua as sung by Mary O'Hara in her book, A Song for Ireland. I'll type them in on a thread next year (look out for it around 8-12 Jan. I've also heard the song sung completely in Irish, apart from the word 'Tally-ho'. Don't forget,everybody, neither Irish nor English has to be in the song for it to be valuable to this thread! Nollaig Chridheil agus bliadhna mhath ur. |
Subject: Lyr Add: MADERINE RUE From: Alice Date: 23 Dec 98 - 12:08 PM Peg and Robert Clancy have a version of 'Maderine Rue' that is mostly English, and it is printed in "The Irish Songbook, 75 Songs" Clancy/Makem.
The only recording of it that I have heard is Mary O'Hara's.
In the version I adapted to sing, it is different than the Clancy's in that I say 'two ears sticking up' (and if singing to kids, put fingers up by head like fox ears). In the Clancy's version, a more Irish use of 'peepin' instead of the more American 'sticking'.
MADERINE RUE
chorus
Good morrow fox, Good morrow sir,
chorus
Hark, hark, Finder, Lily and Piper,
chorus
Bad luck to you, you bad little fox,
chorus
|
Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi From: johnm Date: 23 Dec 98 - 08:34 PM Philippa Her name is Una MacGillicuddy. Teaches at the Tara Circle in Westchester. If you see her in Missoula, say hello. A disc I just got Bruach Na Carraige Baine by Diarmuid O Suilleabhain has two songs that fall into the Macrononic mode. The first is the title song for the album in which alternating verses are song in Irish and English and the second is My Pup Came Home from Claedeach, in which the languages are mixed together more completely. It is also humorous so should probably be added to the other thread. John Mulqueen
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Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi From: Annraoi Date: 24 Dec 98 - 09:48 PM Alice in Montana (Flynn), You appear in another place. 2+2=4. Nollaig shona agus sonas ort (thank you), Annraoi |
Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi From: Wolfgang Date: 07 Jan 99 - 09:33 AM better late than never: thanks, Alice, for posting Maderine Rua. Wolfgang |
Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi From: Philippa Date: 28 Jan 99 - 01:55 PM there's a very strange macaronic at zouki
Wolfgang, I only just noticed that the version Alice posted isn't the one I have where the fox is addressed in Irish. So I still have to type that out for you after all. I'll give the song its own thread as this one is quite long. And I know Annraoi already has the song. |
Subject: the jumble above From: Philippa Date: 28 Jan 99 - 02:01 PM I inverted the labelling of the two related URL addresses in my message above. The one called IrTrad-L archives will lead you directly to the macaronic ("Zouki helps out selflessly") while the one labelled "Zouki" will give you a selection of notices concerning Manx and music. |
Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi From: Bobby Bob, Ellan Vannin Date: 28 Jan 99 - 06:48 PM Philippa, I'm not sure whether to thank you for that or not - or in what language (possibly loud and offensive!!). Shoh slaynt, Bobby Bob |
Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi From: Lonesome EJ Date: 29 Jan 99 - 12:46 AM There is a very interesting collection of mixed French/English songs on the album "Acadie" by Daniel Lanois.He is the very talented Montreal-born singer songwriter who did the "Slingblade" soundtrack."Jolie Louise" and "Under A Stormy Sky" are both lively macaronic songs that interlace the two languages. Well worth a listen! |
Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi From: Annraoi Date: 30 Jan 99 - 12:19 PM Good on you, Bobby Bob. I don't know what some people get out of this type of infantile rubbish. Annraoi |
Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi From: Wolfgang Date: 16 Apr 99 - 05:40 AM On the new Chieftains CD, Tears of Stone, there's 'Jimmy, mó mhíle stór' in two languages, a song perfectly fitting in this thread. And there's 'A stór mó chroí, when you are far away' on the same album. Wolfgang |
Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi From: johnm (inactive) Date: 21 Apr 99 - 05:49 PM Just came across a book in the Iona College Library called An tAmhran Macaronach by Diarmaid O Muirithe, Dublin 1980. it lists some 79 macronic songs. Introduction is in Irish, including two versions of An Maidrin Rua |
Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi From: Philippa Date: 21 Apr 99 - 06:03 PM Annraoi has a copy of the book, johnm, but it was good of you to mention it. |
Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi From: Alice Date: 21 Apr 99 - 07:05 PM Thanks for bringing this thread back. I was thinking of it when I posted to "lost loves" about The Quiet Land of Erin. Would it count? I would be interested in a translation to English of the Gaelic words in Quiet Land. I've only heard it as recorded by ... who else... Mary O'Hara. alice in montana |
Subject: The Quiet Land of Erin From: Philippa Date: 22 Apr 99 - 07:47 AM At Alice's behest, I've posted a singable English version, not a literal translation, at: Ard Tí Chuain |
Subject: Mac Con Mara's macaronic From: Philippa Date: 22 Jul 99 - 02:05 PM Usually in Irish/Gaelic-English macaronic verse, the lines in each language fit together without contradiction. The following ballad, however, is designed to deceive the monoglot. I have copied this song from James Healy. Ballads From the Pubs of Ireland. Cork: Mercier, 1965, 4th edition 1971. According to Healy's notes, the author Donnchadh Mac Con-Mara emigrated (in the 18th century) to Newfoundland and composed this poem on the spot when some English soldiers at a public house in St John's asked him for a song. Healy writes: "Extemporaneously he ran off the following to the delight of the sailor who understood the English part, and to the double-delight of the Irish present who understood it all. " I have copied the spelling from Healy's book; I suspect a couple of errors, but in most cases where the spelling deviates from the present-day standard I recognise a familiar archaic form. Mac Con-Mara's best known song is "Bán-Chnoic Éireann-ó"
MacNamara's Bilingual Ballad
As I was walking one evening fair,
I boozed and drank both late and early,
I spent my fortune by being freakish,
Newfoundland is a fine plantation
I'll join in fellowship with 'Jack-of -all-Trades,'
The last of August could I but see;
Come drink a health boys, to Royal George,
|
Subject: Lyr Add: MÍCHEÁL MÓR (David Mackenzie) From: Philippa Date: 30 Jul 99 - 10:37 AM verses submitted by David Mackenzie to the Gaeilge-B mailing list in 1997. I found the the poem (without those annoying translations in brackets!] at: www.smo.uhi.ac.uk/gaeilge/corpus/dain/micheal_mor.html
I heard this story ó mo athair [from my father],
Uair amháin - fadó, fadó, [once upon a time]
And so it was bliain in, bliain out [year in, year out]
Meanwhile - up in Átha Cliath -
This cailín deas [pretty colleen] with eyes so blue
This scarlet woman knows each trick
Chríost ! Mícheál's ceann [head] was in a spin,
Mícheál Mór still sleeps alone shades of Ros na Rún [Irish tv soap with a lot of Bearla thrown in]. Being bi-lingual does extend the range for rhymes!
|
Subject: Mícheál Mór, bi-lingual song From: Philippa Date: 30 Jul 99 - 10:42 AM the link didn't work, but you can just go to http://www.smo.uhi.ac.uk/gaeilge/corpus/dain/ |
Subject: Lyr Add: SLAN ABHAILE (Dermot Henry) From: Date: 30 Jul 99 - 11:07 AM SLAN ABHAILE (words and music by Dermot Henry; recorded by Cathie Ryan, bi-lingual chorus) Dermot Henry, ASCAP/ACORN
The sun is down; the moon is blue
Chorus
I see an island, you're on the pier
Chorus
Look out your window when you're feeling blue Chorus |
Subject: Lyr Add: VER MI O From: Haruo Date: 29 Sep 00 - 11:17 AM Ver mi o
This is William Auld's perhaps macaronic Gaelic/Esperanto version of, I am guessing, "Sad am I without thee" as given in Marta Evans' Kantfesto I (Kanada Esperanto-Asocio, 1982?), in the compilation of which I collaborated, with slight emendations of the punctuation and h for circumflex; I'm pretty sure it had appeared previously in one of Auld and Hill's collections (probably Kantanta mia bird' or Floroj sen kompar'), but I don't have them at hand. I think the Gaelic has been respelt for non-Gaels (e.g. "Ver" might be "Bhair" or some such)... And I should say I don't consider this true macaroni; I think of true macaroni as much more integrated where it switches tongues, as in In Dulci Jubilo or the Boar's Head Carol. 1. If I'm alone and the sea / howls at night in challenge, / the light of love guides / my steps to you. 2. My harp of joy, / My melody of the heart, / guiding moon of the night / you keep shining on me. Now I'll go to the Digitrad Database and see what the English singing version looks like... (I'm a native anglophone of an eighth Gaelic (also half Sassenach, a quarter Norsky, and an eighth undecided) ancestry, but this song has hitherto been part of my Esperanto cultural heritage only.) Liland Esperanto hymnodist Christmas Carols in Esperanto PS: HTML test: Mi malĝojas sen vi (Encoding: Unicode UTF-8) |
Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi From: Haruo Date: 29 Sep 00 - 11:18 AM My macaronic Latin/Esperanto version of In Dulci Jubilo is the latest addition to my online hymnal. In dulci jubilo (Latin/Esperanto) Enjoy. Liland Esperanto hymnologist, hymnodist and hymnist |
Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi From: Chocolate Pi Date: 29 Sep 00 - 11:59 AM English/Yiddish: Mein Ruheplatz. "Don't look for me where myrtles blossom, You will not find me there, mein schatz. At the machines, where lives are withered Dorten iz mein ruheplatz, dorten iz mein ruheplatz." In the Digitrad in a number of variations. My highschool Spanish teacher delighted the class by playing fragments from a sort-of-rap-song which went: "First you tell me one thing than you tell me otra cosa How can I believe you when you are a mentirosa?" Chocolate Pi |
Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi From: Susanne (skw) Date: 30 Sep 00 - 12:10 PM 'Mein Ruheplatz' only becomes macaronic in translation, probably because it is very difficult to translate in its entirety without loss of its special flavour. There is a complete Yiddish text, though. - Susanne (glad to have her cookie back) |
Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi From: GUEST,Liland qua guest Date: 30 Sep 00 - 06:58 PM I have the Japanese first verses, romanized, of four Christmas carols including In Dulci Jubilo, which is why I mention it here, on my website at this location. But it's not macaronic, more of a Good Christian Men Rejoice approach. Liland |
Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi From: GUEST,Philippa Date: 16 Mar 02 - 09:18 PM seesion 16 March at Thran Maggie's, Derry, Ireland. Dick MacGabhann & Páidí Ó Mianáin sang "One morning in May agus mé dul ag spaisteoireacht", so Beathag Morrison tried to recall "Ciad Turas Mhic Dhòmhnaill a Ghlaschu" (see 11 Dec 1998 above). So I thought maybe it's time to refresh this thread |
Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi From: Alice Date: 18 Nov 02 - 01:03 PM refresh for "Maidrin Rua" |
Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi From: GUEST,Philippa Date: 18 Nov 02 - 01:20 PM Alice, how about the maidrín ruathread http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=8906#56128 |
Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi From: Declan Date: 18 Nov 02 - 01:27 PM One of my favourite Macaronic songs is A Match was Making/Ta mo Chleamhnas a Dheanamh as sung on the first Altan album by Mairead and Aine Ni Mhaonaigh. The song possibly wouldn't be considered purely macaronic as the alternate verses in Gailge and English are translations of each other, but it is a beautiful version of a lovely song none the less. |
Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi From: Joe_F Date: 18 Nov 02 - 07:59 PM I think there was a tradition of German-Latin macaronic carols. In addition to "In Dulce Jubilo" mentioned earlier in this thread, I remember from high school Psallite unigenito Christo Dei filio Redemptori Domino Puerulo jacenti In praesepio. Ein kleines Kindelein Liegt in dem Krippelein. Alle liebe Engelein Dienen dem Kindelein Und singen Ihm fein. Psallite, etc. (You will pardon me if I have gotten some of the endings wrong.) The following English--dog-Latin one, which I remember from college, is probably 18th- or 19th-century British: Amo, amas, I love a lass As a cedar tall and sleder. Sweet cowslip's grace is her nominative case, And she's of the feminine gender. Rorum corum sunt divorum, Harum scarum divo, Tagrag merryderry periwig and hatband, Hic hoc horum genitivo. Can I decline a nymph divine? Her voice as a flute is dulcis. [line forgotten] And soft, when I tacto, her pulse is. Rorum corum, etc. O how bella my puella! I'll kiss secula seculorum. If I've luck, sir, she's my uxor. O dies benedictorum! Rorum corum, etc. |
Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi From: Alice Date: 19 Nov 02 - 11:43 AM Philippa, thanks for adding that link. I didn't trace the thread and couldn't find it yesterday. This thread makes me sad, one of the most fun threads with Annraoi, may he rest in peace. Alice |
Subject: RE: Macarónachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixi From: Mary Humphreys Date: 19 Nov 02 - 05:48 PM This thread started with a mention of Welsh macaronic songs. Here is a good example which has not been posted yet: A ei di'r deryn du? A ei di'r deryn du To my dearest love O cais fy nghangen gu For I'm so deep in love. Ni welaf yn un man Such a damsel in my sight A'r ferch mor lan o liw She is a beauty bright Mae'i gwallt yn felyn aur Just like a ring of gold A'i phryd fel eira gwyn The truth it must be told. Collected fromW. Sylvanus Jones of Llanllyfni , Sir Gaerfyrddin & published in 1941. |
Subject: RE: Macaronachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixin From: Haruo Date: 10 May 06 - 03:58 PM I just posted a quadrilingual Chinook Jargon/Skokomish/Clallam/English VBS-campfire-type ditty. It was posted yesterday to Chinook List by David Robertson, a Victoria BC linguist, and tentatively attributed to Myron Eells, noted 19th-century NW missionary/linguist. Robertson found it in the BC Provincial Museum archives, along with a couple of other religious songs (one in Skokomish i.e. Twana, the other in Nisqually i.e. Southern Lushootseed). Haruo |
Subject: RE: Macaronachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixing From: GUEST,Darowyn Date: 11 May 06 - 01:01 PM On the off-chance that somebody might be able to trace the source, I remember reading somewhere that the nursery rhyme "Hickory,Dickory Dock" was a macaronic verse, and that the apparently nonsense words were either Basque or (more romantically) "the secret language of the Witches" Does this strike a chord with anyone? |
Subject: RE: Macaronachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixin From: Kaleea Date: 11 May 06 - 04:06 PM Don't know about hickory dickory dock, but my 1 1/2 year old neice & I watched someone sing (& dance) "Do the Macaroni" on Sesame Street this morning. |
Subject: RE: Macaronachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixing From: An Pluiméir Ceolmhar Date: 11 May 06 - 05:05 PM Yiddish poses problems because it's an inherently macaronic language itself, being German in structure with roughly one part German, one part Hebrew and one part Russian/Polish vocabulary. Does that mean we've discovered metamacaronics? ;-) BTW, I've sometinmes wondered if Hickory dickory dock isn't a thinly-veiled reference to sex. Have I a warped mind, or just read too much Freud in my formative years? |
Subject: RE: Macaronachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixing From: Darowyn Date: 12 May 06 - 04:00 AM You are just thinking about basques, aren't you? Cheers Dave |
Subject: RE: Macaronachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixin From: sian, west wales Date: 12 May 06 - 05:24 AM Mary and the original poster mentioned Welsh songs - and Mary gave the words to one of the prettiest and perhaps best known. There are actually quite a few, and many of them 'fit' a lot of the theory above. A Ei Di Deryn Du (Blackbird, will you go?) as posted by Mary Bachgen Bach o Dincar - which was discussed in another thread some time ago, I think in connection with some Australian songs Y Ferch o Fedlam (The Girl from Bedlam) - a variation of Dives and Lazarus Ar y Ffordd wrth Fynd i Rymni (On the Road to Rhymni) - which I always tended to avoid in public singing due to the repeating line, "Very Well done Jim Crow". I recently found out that, in the area from which it came, there's a historic cottage known to everyone as "Jim Crow Cottage" so this may require some further research ... Dingl Ding Joseph - a children's song A number of ballads from the 18th C, particularly those of Jac Glan Gors Can Merthyr, which is the only one that I have to memory, first verse being: Ye lads all through the country Gwrandewch (listen) unto my story: You'd better go dros Ben y Graig (over Pen y Graig) Than go with gwraig (wife) to gwely (bed). The singer goes on to complain about his wife who gives him thin soup and no tobacco. siân |
Subject: RE: Macaronachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixin From: Haruo Date: 12 May 06 - 12:43 PM That was weird, I was trying to see the diacritic on "siân", which was coming out on my screen as a capital A with an accent followed by a US cent sign (c + /). I checked the encoding and it was defaulting to "Western-Windows" so I clicked on Unicode, but it went automatically to 16-bit, and the whole thread suddenly turned into Chinese gibberish with occasional sentences in a mixture of Georgian, Korean and Devanagari. When I clicked on UTF-8 it finally showed me the circumflex I craved. Haruo |
Subject: RE: Macaronachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixing From: MartinRyan Date: 12 May 06 - 02:08 PM APC Heard one recently alternating German and Yiddish. No idea what it was about. Regards |
Subject: RE: Macaronachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixing From: Jim Dixon Date: 12 May 06 - 03:00 PM As I said in the thread Lyr Add: Multilingual Native-American Medley, when I listen to radio station WOJB, "Woodland Community Radio," in northern Wisconsin, I occasionally hear macaronic songs mixing English with some Native American language(s) which I don't recognize. (The Indians in that area are Chippewa/Anishinabe, but I don't think we can assume that all the music they play is in their language.) I will pay more attention in the future and try to come back with some names of songs and singers. |
Subject: RE: Macaronachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixin From: sian, west wales Date: 12 May 06 - 03:22 PM Haruo The Macaronic principle has invaded the internet. I like to think, however, that I have that effect on people. What is that Inuit saying? "A woman who does not lie with a husband is a dangerous thing." ... or something like that. sia^n (if that helps) p.s. I think the gibberish is connected with me using the Welsh accents software which comes with the Welsh spellchecker. Maybe. Dunno, really. s |
Subject: RE: Macaronachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixin From: Wilfried Schaum Date: 17 May 06 - 10:27 AM A medieval student song from the Carmina Burana I posted in the wrong thread, look here |
Subject: RE: Macaronachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixing From: GUEST,Jack Campin Date: 17 May 06 - 01:44 PM There is a Breton/French macaronic song which includes a bilingual pun. It came up when I asked about its tune on the ABC list. Turns out the tune is a nameless "an dro", used for a broadside ballad from 1871 which was recorded (1980s?) by the Breton group Tri Yann. It's about Breton soldiers being used as cannon fodder for the French at the time of the Franco-Prussian War and the Paris Commune. I have the full story and lyrics at home, but I'm 3000 miles away at the moment - maybe anyone who's still interested could email me directly (jack dot campin at gmail dot youknowwhat)and I'll fish it out. |
Subject: RE: Macaronachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixing From: GUEST,Jill Rogoff Date: 14 Jan 10 - 09:15 AM I'm working on a couple of quadrilingual songs from Sarajevo, from the Sephardic tradition. One is in Ladino (Judeo-Spanish), Hebrew, Turkish and Greek (four lines to a verse, each line in a different language); the other song is Ladino, Hebrew, Turkish and Serbo-Croat... No wonder they're scarcely sung anymore! Many years ago, I also came across a song in Hebrew and Italian, but neglected to copy it down (thinking the book would always be available to me again -- big mistake!). I'm still looking for it. In the medieval repertoire, there are some other macaronic songs: of course, there's the chorus ('Deo Gratias!') in the famous Agincourt Song, but also Nova Nova (a Scots song in Lallands and Latin, if I'm remembering correctly) and then the lovely There Is No Ros of Sych Vertu -- Middle English and Latin. There are also occasional French shanty songs with English lines in them, or lines in Breton. |
Subject: RE: Macaronachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixing From: MartinRyan Date: 14 Jan 10 - 03:13 PM As it happens, I've recently been trying my hand at composing a macaronic, in connection with a course I'm taking (of study, not medicine...). While the references are very local and topical, the approach may be of interest; ---------------- Air: Tatterjack Walshe (a.k.a. The Price of my Pig) Ar mo ghabháil tríd an Spidéil ar maidin, go moch I chanced to fall in with a handsome young buck Ag fágaint Tigh Hughes, is é ólta go leor And he stood and he blinked - as he walked out the door! "Do thosaigh an ceol ag leath-huair 'théis a sé The trouble is I can't remember WHICH DAY Idir polkas, mazurkas, barndances and jigs Sure I clean forgot - I'd to sell off them pigs!" Shíos ag an cros-bothair, is ann bhí an scléip The Guards were all laying out scene-of-crime tape Bhí muc ag rith soir – 's ceann eile 'dul siar As the Sergeant called out "Lets have some order here!" Bhí triocha haon Franncaigh ar gluaisrothair móra On the way to a session beyond Ballyhoura Sé dúirt a gceannródai "Mais amis! My friend - There's no telling how this adventure will end!" Ag oifig an phoist in In-der-eabhán Two lads tried a raid – with the guards looking on! Now, caithfinn a rá nach raibh siad ró-glic As bank-robbers go, they were totally thick! Ón Aifrica Theas a tháinig an beirt And one of them said – causing much mirth? "Bhí "getaway" réite – is b'shin é an seift Sure we even remembered to drive on the left! Ach anois tá muid gabhtha – is beimid go deo It's off to the Gaol of Clonmel we must go Ag gabháil tríd An Spidéal a bheimid anocht Inside of a squad car, go daingean is docht 'S caithfidh mé innsint libh rud amháin eile They won't think of us like they did of Mandela Ní thiochfaidh aon cuireadh ó N-U-I-G And we'll never get – any Galway Degree! Regards p.s. No doubt some alert 'catter will spot the deliberate mistake! |
Subject: RE: Macaronachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixing From: melodeonboy Date: 14 Jan 10 - 03:35 PM Some zydeco songs are macaronic (French/English). |
Subject: RE: Macaronachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixing From: Jack Campin Date: 14 Jan 10 - 07:52 PM Uzbek/Persian macaronics in northern Afghanistan: Afghan Teahouse Music |
Subject: RE: Macaronachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixing From: GUEST,Philippa Date: 10 Oct 12 - 07:30 PM I've been looking, so far unsuccessfully, for digital copy of a broadside bilingual or macaronic song. Can anyone help out and expedite the search. Any song in the genre,an image of a printed broadside. thanks in advance |
Subject: RE: Macaronachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixing From: MartinRyan Date: 11 Oct 12 - 05:14 AM Hi Philippa You can access a copy of The Young Sick Lover (in TCD library) via: This link Regards |
Subject: RE: Macaronachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixing From: MartinRyan Date: 12 Oct 12 - 04:34 PM Refresh... |
Subject: RE: Macaronachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixing From: GUEST,John Moulden Date: 13 Oct 12 - 11:46 AM Pretty well all the macaronics on ballad sheets were done by Haly [Joseph] of Hanover Street, Cork. There is at least one printed by him entitled "The Flowers of Edinburgh" which has alternate verses in Irish and English - in the Bodleian Ballads - I only looked till I found one - there may be more. |
Subject: RE: Macaronachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixing From: GUEST,Gerry Date: 14 Oct 12 - 07:44 AM I don't think anyone has mentioned Fel Shara. From the liner notes of the Putumayo compilation, A Jewish Odyssey: "Fel Shara is a traditional Sephardic love song that effortlessly blends five different languages (Ladino, Italian, French, Englsh and Arabic). The languages shift in mid-phrase, switching between English and French or Italian and Arabic from one word to the next...." The recording is by KlezRoym. The Susan McKeown, Lorin Sklamberg CD, Saints & Tzadiks, has several mixed-language songs. The first track has Yiddish and English versions of the Cruel Brother ballad. Another track combines Johnny I Hardly Knew Ye, Kh'bin Oysgeforn Felder, and Deus Meus Adiuva Me --- the last one is half Latin, half Irish. The Rattlin Bog alternates Yiddish and English. The Dark Slender Boy alternates English and Irish. |
Subject: RE: Macaronachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixing From: Felipa Date: 16 Oct 16 - 08:39 AM Keberoxu just "discovered" another lyric, penned by early 20th century Scottish poet Murdoch Maclean and published in his "Songs of a Roving Celt" The verses in Gaelic mostly refer to the waves of the sea which separate the poet and (his) love/the isle of Skye, the poet singing while "na m'aonar s'mi ann so leam fhein" - alone here by myself To sing thy praises would I try Cha bhard mi gus mo gradh a seinn Na m'aonar s'mi ann so leam fhein So distant from the Isle of Skye. But though the waves are raging white A's muir na'n tonn a'g eiridh ard Cur eadar mise a's mo gradh To thee my fancy takes its flight. And hours like fleeting moments speed Nuair smaoineacheas mi air do thlachd; Ged bhiodh mo chridhe fodh broin 's fodh smachd What other balm could sufferer need? Skill'd in poetic art were I Air te do chliu gu'n togainn fonn, Ach's ard na beann a's fuar na'n tonn Between me and the Isle of Skye. |
Subject: RE: Macaronachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixing From: JMB Date: 16 Oct 16 - 12:59 PM Iesum Dominum is a macaronic song mixing Latin and Scottish Gaelic. The chorus in Latin, and the verses in Gaelic. It is a Christmas hymn in the genre of waulking songs. I learned it at a Christmas Ceilidh some years ago, and arranged a version that I do with the guitar. |
Subject: RE: Macaronachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixing From: Felipa Date: 16 Oct 16 - 01:22 PM tapadh leibh Not fully macaronic, just refrain in Latin, at least in this version from the singing of Fiona Mackenzie www.fionamackenzie.org/DuanNollaig.pdf https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2PytwSb4_w (I prefer Mairi MacInnes version https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkveZpFhniA ) IESUM DOMINUM Sèisd Iesum Dominum, Venite, adoremus, Iesum Dominum, Rann Biodh an trionaid ga Moladh Gura Nollaig Mhic Dhè i! Rugadh Ios' ar ceann-cinnidh Ann an sgiothal na sprèidhe. Bha an saoghal ro chumhang, Ged a chruthaich E fhein e. 'N aona chùil bha gun urram, Aite-fuirich Mhic Dè e. E na shìneadh san fhrasaich, Damh na fhaisge ri geumraich. Ach, a Mhàthair na glaine, 'S gu bheil t'anam gun bheud air, Bidh tu 'g ùrnaigh rid Mhacan E bhith mathadh ar feuch dhuinn; Oidhche choimheach na Nollaig Anns a'bhothaig am Bèthlem. |
Subject: Lyr Add: DARLING, JE VOUS AIME BEAUCOUP (Sosenko) From: Jim Dixon Date: 03 Dec 16 - 12:53 PM I enjoyed the challenge of transcribing this—with lots of help from Google Translate to make sure I got the accents and spelling right: DARLING, JE VOUS AIME BEAUCOUP Words and music by Anna Sosenko, ©1935. As sung by Hildegarde in a British Pathé Pictorial. SPOKEN: Now this song is about an English boy who falls in love with a French girl. Of course, not knowing the French language, he doesn't know just how to express his love, but this is how he manages it. Ooh-la-la! VERSE: Je suis ici patrie long, Mais, s'il vous plaît, écoute ma song. Vous avez un grand appeal. To speak my heart [n'est pas]* facile. Permettez-moi to expliquer In my own peculiar way Exactly what mon cœur would say: CHORUS 1: Darling, je vous aime beaucoup. Je ne sais pas what to do. Vous avez completely stolen my heart. Matin, midi et le soir, Toujours wondering how you are— That's the way I felt right from the start. Ah, chérie, my love for you is très, très fort. Wish my French were good enough; oh, I'd tell you so much more. Mais j'espère that you comprit All the little things you mean to me. Darling, je vous aime beaucoup. I love you. CHORUS 2: Oh, my darling, vous êtes très jolie. Qu'est-ce que c'est vous do to me? Absolutely je suis en la trance. Tout le temps j'espère que vous Dream of me a little too. Ah, chérie, je pense this is romance. Quand nous sommes alone and you are in my arms, Je remercie le bon Dieu for all your lovely charms. Dites-moi: do you love me too? Je suis happy if you do. Darling, je vous aime beaucoup. Oh, I love you so, I do! I do love you. * I inserted "n'est pas" at this point to make sense of the line, but I couldn't make out what she really sings. Nat King Cole recorded a shorter version of this in 1954. He sings only chorus 1 with a partial repeat, and some words given in French above are sung by him in English. Wikipedia has the following comment: When the song was written, "je vous aime" (using the respectful second person plural) was the normal way of saying "I love you" in French - until a threshold of intimacy had been reached, or in public. It has come to sound quaint, as now one would normally say "je t'aime" (using the familiar second person singular), regardless of the level of intimacy or location. |
Subject: RE: Macaronachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixing From: Thompson Date: 04 Dec 16 - 12:25 PM Sean Duffy's Medieval Ireland, an Encyclopedia has a reference to Colmán moccu Cluasaig (died around 655), abbot and fear léigind (journal-keeper?) of the Monastery of Cork, whose composition Sén De don de for don te ("God's blessing, bear us, succour us") was composed to avert the Yellow Plague of 664/5 (obviously not successfully in the case of poor Colmán +RIP+) and is referred to as "one of the earliest pieces of macaronic verse in any western European vernacular, interspersing Latin phrases into an Irish adaptation of an early liturgical ordo for the dead. The list of Old Testament saints invoked, Abel, Elias and so forth, betrays Eastern liturgical influence: nothing like it exists elsewhere in Europe at this early date", plus more about Colmán. |
Subject: RE: Macaronachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixing From: Felipa Date: 06 Jan 17 - 05:01 PM from http://www.jewish-languages.org/jewish-english.html Many [Orthodox Jewish] community members talk about "Yeshivish," as we can see in the title of a popular book (Weiser 1995) and in this song by the Orthodox band Journeys: In the hallowed halls of yeshivos ('Yeshivas') far and wide, Our young men have discovered a new way to verbalize. With Yiddish, English, Hebrew – it's a mixture of all three, And a dash of Aramaic – a linguistic potpourri! That's called: yeshivishe reyd ('Yeshiva speech'), yeshivishe shprax ('Yeshiva language'): Take ('really'), epis ('something'), grade ('in reality'), a gevaldike zax ('remarkable thing'). It's called: yeshivishe reyd, yeshivishe shprax: It's the tawk of the town, mamish ('really') tog un naxt ('day and night'). |
Subject: RE: Macaronachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixing From: Thompson Date: 06 Jan 17 - 05:42 PM Perhaps I've been listening to too much Soft Machine, but Sén De don de for don te sounds like something Kevin Ayers would have composed. |
Subject: RE: Macaronachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixing From: GUEST,diplocase Date: 21 May 20 - 03:40 PM Chocolate Pi, that song your Spanish teacher played you was "Mentirosa" by Mellow Man Ace. |
Subject: RE: Macaronachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixing From: Felipa Date: 28 Aug 20 - 05:35 PM The Girl From Cromor link is to youtube recording A song in English and Scottish Gaelic by Murdo Kennedy aka "Murdani Mast" |
Subject: RE: Macaronachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixing From: GUEST,Peter Cripps Date: 30 Aug 20 - 09:17 AM pádraigín ní uallacháin has researched the Oriel tradition of SE Ulster - one macaronic song is at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVtPtNB0THs |
Subject: RE: Macaronachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixing From: Mrrzy Date: 01 Sep 20 - 12:21 AM I sang a song I know in both English and French in both English and French, does that count? |
Subject: RE: Macaronachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixing From: Haruo Date: 05 Sep 20 - 11:14 AM Must be a TON of these songs in the Philippines. |
Subject: RE: Macaronachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixing From: The Sandman Date: 07 Sep 20 - 06:12 PM an excellent way for teachers to make learning language interesting using music |
Subject: RE: Macaronachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixing From: Joe_F Date: 08 Sep 20 - 05:36 PM Another one I remember from highschool: In dulci jubilo Let all our voices flow. Our hearts' joy reclineth In praesepio And like a bright star shineth Matris in gremio. Alpha es et o, Alpha es et o. There was another verse, which ended "O that we were there!". |
Subject: RE: Macaronachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixing From: Felipa Date: 30 Dec 21 - 10:26 PM Ealaigh Liom https://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=74637 another English and Irish language song |
Subject: RE: Macaronachas / Macaronic Songs. Language mixing From: Felipa Date: 31 Dec 21 - 08:35 AM in the anonymous 30 July 1999 post of Dermot Henry's song "Slán Abhaile", the diacritical marks are omitted. And "mo chroí seo" is incorrect, it should read "mo chroíse". Croi= heart, mo chroí -my heart. Seo means "this"; "an croí seo" = this heart, but saying this my heart is not so likely. Adding "se" to "mo chroí" makes the phrase more emphatic. The lines in English are translations of the Irish language lines above them Slán abhaile. Slán go foill Safe home, good luck until we meet again Beidh mo chroí-se briste gan thú a stór This heart of mine will be broken without you my love No go gcasfad arís orainn Until we meet again Éist is bi ag smaoineamh Listen and be thinking Ar an gceol 'tá ag teacht On the music that is coming Ó mo chroí-se seo amach From the depths of my heart. To compare the samples of Esperanto bilingual songs posted by Haruo on 29 Sept 1999, the posts above "Slán abhaile", with songs they derive from, see Bheir mi ó (aka Gradh Geal Mo Chridh' aka Eriskay Love Lilt) https://digital.nls.uk/early-gaelic-book-collections/archive/76913482 or https://mudcat.org/Detail.CFM?messages__Message_ID=3838874 The chorus is mainly vocables and the last line "'S mi tha brònach 's tu'm dhith" (or "... is tu gam dhith") does mean,"sad am I without thee" as you may have heard in an English language translation of this song. It's hardly a macaronic when it is sung in English or Esperanto or Irish or whatever, with a chorus consisting of Gaelic-derived vocables plus a single line translated from Scottish Gaelic! "In Dulci Jubilo" https://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=91495&threadid=91495 there's also a German, Japanese and Latin monolingual and English-Latin versions of In Dulci Jubilo posted at https://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=91495#1740681 |
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