Review: Egypt Station (Paul McCartney)

Subject: Egypt Station
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Sep 18 - 03:11 AM

Not folk but from a musically important artist. Paul McCartney's 17th solo album. I listened to it yesterday and was very impressed. His performance on a TV show recently was, I thought, quite poor as his voice seemed to have failed him somewhat. Not so on this album. Good songs. Well performed and produced. All in all very enjoyable. Not sure if any of them will be played at folk clubs as often as 'Blackbird' or 'Norwegian Wood' though :-)

Subject: RE: Egypt Station
From: GUEST,Observer
Date: 12 Sep 18 - 03:39 AM

An observation taking bits from the first and last sentences of the above post:

Not folk but ... then Not sure if any of them will be played at folk clubs

If its not folk why on earth would anyone expect these songs to be played in a folk club? @Blackbird' and 'Norwegian Wood' aren't folk songs either.

McCartney was tremendously successful "pop" artist in that he made money. As to him being "musically important" that is entirely a matter of opinion.

Subject: RE: Egypt Station
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Sep 18 - 04:09 AM

An observation taking bits of the above post.

Observer, you are a just an argumentative tosser.

That is, of course, entirely a matter of opinion.

Subject: RE: Egypt Station
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 12 Sep 18 - 06:23 AM

Pop songs are written to make money, folk songs are not, thats the difference.

Folk clubs deserve better than pop songs, people only sing them there because they don't know any folk music.

Dave H

Subject: RE: Egypt Station
From: GUEST,akenaton
Date: 12 Sep 18 - 06:29 AM

Dave the Gnome.....why do you not address the points being made by Guest Observer and Mr Hanson, rather than dive straight into personal abuse mode.
Argumentative? of course we are, that is the purpose of advancing our views here....

Subject: RE: Egypt Station
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Sep 18 - 06:43 AM

why do you not address the points being made by Guest Observer and Mr Hanson

Well, in the first instance, Dave H (whom I know, like and respect as a fine musician) made the point after my response to Observer. I did not have the time to reply in the 6 minutes between Dave's point and your response. As it happens, I agree with the point about it not being folk music. Hence my opening words

Not folk

Secondly, Observer, who I do not know, made no comment on the matter in question, IE Egypt Station, but simply chose to pick an argument. Pretty much like you have done. It is what is known in the trade as trolling and, beyond this response, I am not going to get involved in it. How is life since your membership was revoked for that very action by the way?

I am happy if no one wants to discuss the album. It is not, as I said, folk music. I gave my honest and polite opinion of it. People may disagree with that opinion and that is their right. But, if you do want to discuss it, please stick to the subject.

Subject: RE: Egypt Station
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 Sep 18 - 06:49 AM

Sorry Dave, he sounds (as does Cliff Richard nowadays) like a tired old man whose voice has gone and whose false teeth don't fit him properly.

I used to be a fan of both of them (for different reasons), but this is a case of 'An album Too Far' for both of them, IMHO.

Subject: RE: Egypt Station
From: GUEST,Observer
Date: 12 Sep 18 - 06:51 AM

Hate to point this out to you Dave the Gnome, but people do have different points of view to those held by yourself, and unbelievable as it may seem, there is a principle (Some even regard it as a human right) involving freedom of speech, that should if applied allow anyone and everyone to express their own opinions. It would appear Dave the Gnome that you only believe in freedom of speech for yourself and those who agree with your point of view.

My point which you have totally refused to address, while taking time out to type out a totally unwarranted personal attack, still stands, i.e. if the song is not a folk song why should it be sung in a folk club?

Subject: RE: Egypt Station
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Sep 18 - 07:14 AM

if the song is not a folk song why should it be sung in a folk club?

As has been discussed at great length elsewhere, songs of other genres are sung at folk clubs. Whether that is right or wrong is a different topic altogether and can be discussed on any of the threads dedicated to that.

It would appear Dave the Gnome that you only believe in freedom of speech for yourself and those who agree with your point of view.

I refer you to my post of 12 Sep 18 - 06:43 AM

I gave my honest and polite opinion of it. People may disagree with that opinion and that is their right.

In that same post I also said

But, if you do want to discuss it, please stick to the subject.

If you wish to argue, please argue about the pros and cons of the topic in question, as Dave H and BWM have.

For my comment you are a just an argumentative tosser I do apologise. I do not know you well enough to say that you are a tosser. The other part of the description is, however, self evident.

BWM - Yes, that is what I thought after seeing a recent performance but was very pleasantly surprised by this album. It could be that electronic 'enhancements' have been made. I really don't know. But I would recommend that you give it a fair listen if you have not already done so.

Subject: RE: Egypt Station
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 Sep 18 - 08:18 AM

Nice try, Dave.

Subject: RE: Egypt Station
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Sep 18 - 10:02 AM

Does anyone have any comments about the album itself? For or against. I shall not take offence if you dislike it. Honest! :-)

Subject: RE: Egypt Station
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Sep 18 - 10:42 AM

It can be even worse, BWM. They can remain anonymous up here!

Maybe you can help me to keep it on track? Have you had a listen to the album? As I said, I am quite surprised as I was of the same opinion as you on his voice a short while ago. Not that mine is any good I hasten to add before I get jumped on for that as well ;-) Do you have Spotify? It is on there or, if not, go through Radio 2 playlists as they are playing a lot of it at the moment.

Subject: RE: Egypt Station
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 Sep 18 - 10:50 AM

I've heard several tracks on BBC Radio 2 - they're flogging it a bit this past week or two. Good songs, the ones I've heard, and a rather 'different' sound, but he never did sing in tune very well and his 'live' stuff on TV this past few years has been embarrassing and excruciatingly bad.

He's probably reasonably in tune on the album because his vocals are auto-tuned.

There's no doubt he's been very influential as a composer and musician but, IMHO, he's buggered, over the hill, past it. He cannot possibly need the money, IMHO it's time for him to go graciously into that dark night (professionally speaking).

Subject: RE: Egypt Station
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Sep 18 - 10:56 AM

Aye 'appen, as they say in this neck of the woods. I heard bits of an interesting interview with him done by Steve Wright. Not had chance to listen to it all yet but I may get round to it if I get chance this weekend. The question of why he does it was raised and what he said made sense but I can't remember exactly what it was!

Subject: RE: Egypt Station
From: Raggytash
Date: 12 Sep 18 - 11:11 AM

I have to admit I'm a tad surprised that people are surprised that McCartney voice has "gone" I never thought he had a decent voice in the first place, I was never that fond of the Beatles and he has certainly not released anything of merit since they split.

For eexample The Frog Song, Mull of Kintyre .......... would these have even been released had McCartneys name not been attached to them.

Unadulterated crap in my opinion.

Subject: RE: Egypt Station
From: peteglasgow
Date: 12 Sep 18 - 11:39 AM

i didn't know what 'egypt station' referred to - so thought i'd take a look. how could a new thread have so many responses? i should have known ......
in a way you (well, we) are splendidly argumentative. i wonder if there is any small group in myth, fable or popular culture who are so wilfully and pointlessly antagonistic to each other.

maybe in mervyn peake? knights who say 'ni'?

Subject: RE: Egypt Station
From: Raedwulf
Date: 12 Sep 18 - 12:19 PM

As far as that goes, Raggy, I confess I agree. I can't comment on the new album. I haven't heard it & I'm never likely to (sorry, DtG!), as I've never been a McCartney fan either. I'm not old enough to remember the Beatles before they broke up. I can only accept, therefore, the standard history of how influential they were on the UK music scene (much like the Rolling Stones, really!).

Similarly, I can't really hold on opinion on the whole Lennon vs McCartney creative thing. What I do remember is Wings & occasional later offerings of his that I may have run across. Banal, puerile pap. Two short verses & a chorus of "Ooo, yeah baby, Ooo, yeah, yeah, baby, ooo, yeah", the whole repeated however many times PM felt necessary. I'm probably being unfair, but shining examples of the lyric writing art, they were not. Similarly, the music was repetitive, banal, puerile pap. Sorry, pop.

Then there was his very public foray into classical music. I've studied classical theory to a reasonable level; more than sufficient to know what "development of a theme" means. One scathing critic wrote words to the effect that "Mr McCartney does not appear to understand that developing a theme means more than simply playing the same theme in a different key". But a classical orchestra picked it up & played to an enthusiastic reception... Nothing to do with PM's name being on it; good publicity & all that? Whilst proper composers can't get anyone to pay attention to them at all...

I'm not going to suggest that PM can't play, isn't a musician, etc. But, as far as I'm concerned, he's been living on his reputation as an ex-Beatle ever since he became one. As far as musician, composer, or lyricist goes, I've never heard anything to suggest to me that he, in his own right, he is anything more than a fortunately famous pygmy. To put it another way (so hopefully no-one will misunderstand the previous phrase), if his name hadn't been Paul McCartney, ex-Beatle, no-one would know it.

Sorry, Dave. Also not the answer you wanted, but at least I'm not being deliberately provocative, or calling people names. Well, not so far anyway! ;-)

Subject: RE: Egypt Station
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 Sep 18 - 12:21 PM

Just seen that Kanye West is involved. Hmmmmmm....

Subject: RE: Egypt Station
From: GUEST,DTM
Date: 12 Sep 18 - 12:35 PM

As a long-time admirer of the Beatles I've just given "Egypt Station" a quick listen on Spotify. Alas, first impressions it would appear a better title would have been "Lost".

Subject: RE: Egypt Station
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Sep 18 - 12:42 PM

When it comes to the album and Macca himself, I think it all fair comment. I would disagree on some things of course but wouldn't life be boring if we were all the same. Stick to discussing the topic and we won't go far wrong :-)

Subject: RE: Egypt Station
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Sep 18 - 12:48 PM

I think Kanye West offered to produce it but Macca turned him down, BWM. That's what I heard anyway.

Not sure in which way it is "lost", DTM. It is different in some ways but I can hear both Beatles and old Macca in it. Unless that is just wishful thinking :-)

Subject: RE: Egypt Station
From: GUEST,DTM
Date: 12 Sep 18 - 01:31 PM

I take no pleasure in criticising of one of my hero's but SPM's voice does sound as if it's gone past its sell-by-date. I thought the only song that was notable was "Confidante" (Sounds like he might be singing about Heather Mills, but I may be wrong).
Generally I thought his attempts at capturing past old formulas (such as Sgt Pepper & Helter Skelter) fell well short of the mark.
It's hard to believe that composers in general can write such fantastic fresh stuff in their teens and twenties and yet, with all the experience and development attained in growing up and growing old, fail to produce anything near as good as their early work. Maybe age douses the sparks of creativity?

Subject: RE: Egypt Station
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Sep 18 - 01:55 PM

I guess it could! Thanks for the input.

I liked 'Despite repeated warnings'. Good comment on the way global warming is being ignored and, in my view, quite Beatle-ish.

Subject: RE: Review: Egypt Station (Paul McCartney)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Sep 18 - 02:29 PM

What an odd thread (started by a not-odd bloke, I hasten to add!) We manage to discuss classical music here and even jazz (ugh) without acrimony, and we do obits of all manner of non-folk people. I kind of like that. And Cyril Tawney writes songs that aren't folk songs but I bet he made a bob or two out of Grey Funnel Line and Chicken On A Raft, and we sing those in folk clubs...Oh well, isn't life so full of grey areas. And no-one ever forces anyone to click on threads anyway...

Subject: RE: Review: Egypt Station (Paul McCartney)
From: GUEST,Reverend Bayes
Date: 12 Sep 18 - 02:32 PM

An awful lot of people who seem to know better than Sir Paul how to shift albums. Catch yourself on, people. You don't have to like it but if you're going to kick lumps out of it you'd better bring specifics.

Subject: RE: Review: Egypt Station (Paul McCartney)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Sep 18 - 02:54 PM

Anyway, what IS folk?


I'm joking, I'm joking!


I'll get me coat...

Subject: RE: Review: Egypt Station (Paul McCartney)
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 Sep 18 - 03:05 PM

Ah, I've fallen victim to the mis-read headline - it seems Kanye West was almost involved in the production of Egypt Station!

Me a cowboy
Me a cowboy
Me a Mexican cowboy!

Subject: RE: Review: Egypt Station (Paul McCartney)
From: GUEST,Observer
Date: 12 Sep 18 - 03:11 PM

Couldn't disagree more GUEST,Reverend Bayes, Paul McCartney, or more to the point Brian Epstein and George Martin, knew how to shift albums better than almost anybody, no doubt of that. They made a great deal of money out of doing precisely that. But that in itself does not make Paul McCartney "musically important" as I think he was described in the OP. And if a song is not a folk song why would it ever be sung in a folk club?

As someone else brought the subject up, I would love to know what songs Cyril Tawney wrote that weren't folk songs (i.e. Songs written about a typical sailors work and life ashore and afloat). If he did make money from songs such as "Grey Funnel Line" that was because it just happened to be a very good song, with a very good melody that was very popular. It was as much of a folk song as MacColl's "Shoals of Herring" was, all the songs written by Tawney were written with first hand knowledge of what his songs were all about (That's what made them good).

Subject: RE: Review: Egypt Station (Paul McCartney)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Sep 18 - 03:39 PM

I don't know how to put this more plainly. This is not a thread about what is and is not folk. I am happy to debate whether Macca is musically important or not as that is pertinent to the thread but what should and should not be sung at folk clubs is being done to death next door (currently) on the Folk revival thread.

To bring us back to the point there is a swaithe of people who list the Beatles, including McCartney as an influence. Whatever you say, that makes him musically important. Without him a lot of artists and bands would not be doing what they are doing today. In addition, Yesterday is still the most covered song ever. Pretty important I reckon.

Subject: RE: Review: Egypt Station (Paul McCartney)
From: GUEST,akenaton
Date: 12 Sep 18 - 03:43 PM

Couldn't agree more Guest Observer, Cyril was to folk music as the Beatles were to pop and that was the only similarity.
Two completely different genres with completely different driving forces.

Subject: RE: Review: Egypt Station (Paul McCartney)
From: Raedwulf
Date: 12 Sep 18 - 04:07 PM

Steve - QUEER! ;-)

Dave - I think you might have to accept that this un, as often, is subject to a certain amount of that ol' 'cat meander... That's mine, this is mine, I'll just rub up against anyfin'...

Cyril Tawney seems a reasonable meander to me (& Steve interduced the gennelmun). And I mentioned PM's classical stuff. How Shep do you really want to be, barking about the boundaries, eh? ;-)

Subject: RE: Review: Egypt Station (Paul McCartney)
From: GUEST,Observer
Date: 12 Sep 18 - 04:10 PM

To bring us back to the point there is a swaithe of people who list the Beatles, including McCartney as an influence.

Nowhere near as many as list Lonnie Donegan

Whatever you say, that makes him musically important.

You are stating an opinion of yours not a fact. Please do not present it as such.

Without him a lot of artists and bands would not be doing what they are doing today.

Now that does surprise me, as listening to radio during the day I hear very little, in fact nothing at all that could be discernibly linked to any Paul McCartney or any Beatles influence, unless of course they were the unsung "Rapper" heroes of Knotty Ash.

In addition, Yesterday is still the most covered song ever. Pretty important I reckon.

YOU may find that "pretty important" but that is YOUR opinion again. It is however irrelevant. Although as far as covers go it would be interesting to know what would make more, royalties from "Yesterday" or Royalties from "The Wild Rover" or "Whiskey In The Jar".

Subject: RE: Review: Egypt Station (Paul McCartney)
From: Allan Conn
Date: 12 Sep 18 - 06:03 PM

It is all personal taste. I haven't heard the new one but quite liked his last one. Really liked his third Firemen album and the others were interesting. Several great albums in the 70s especially Band On The Run and later I thought Flowers In The Dirt was a really good album. Some not so good right enough but even they tended to have some good songs on them.

Subject: RE: Review: Egypt Station (Paul McCartney)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Sep 18 - 06:49 PM

Anyone who sez that Macca isn't musically important is, well, one of several things. I'll have a go: a Macca-hater. A Macca envier. A Macca jealousee. A Macca denier. A Stones fan. A snob. Just give over, will you. By any objective standard, Macca is musically extremely important. In a hundred years' time we'll still be listening to Macca's stuff (Jesus wept, we're already fifty years down the road and we're still listening...)

I am not a fan of Macca. I do like a few of his songs and I can appreciate that he is extremely accomplished in his particular field, not to speak of extremely influential. You really are not obliged to like him though. I dislike Vivaldi and Benjamin Britten but that doesn't mean I don't appreciate their place in their genre. It just means that I won't be buying their LPs, my choice, that's all. Having a bash at Macca in a Macca thread is no more than immature tribal teenage Blur vs Oasis stuff. Just say you're not keen and move on.

Subject: RE: Review: Egypt Station (Paul McCartney)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 Sep 18 - 01:08 AM

but SPM's voice does sound as if it's gone past its sell-by-date

Geez. What a short-sighted complaint. There is so much more to a song, to a performer, to the process, than an aging voice. Cases in point - Bob Dylan. The late Leonard Cohen. A couple of people whose songs have been appreciated over the years and who still have fans who love the package - the music, the words, the performer. And the music and the words will be picked up by other performers with more supple voices and performed again.

Songs aren't just for youthful voices. Like poetry they express a range of experiences. Younger critics or purists, get over yourselves.

Subject: RE: Review: Egypt Station (Paul McCartney)
From: Thompson
Date: 13 Sep 18 - 02:26 AM

I've just listened to one song out of curiosity - Despite Repeated Warnings about the looming ecological disaster.

Like all other posts on this thread, this is my personal opinion; unlike most others, I'm only ears and not hands in musicianship terms - can't play an instrument, can no longer sing. So take heed of that.

My uninformed opinion, anyway, is that it's a good song but taken way too slow. Lennon-and-McCartney's great talent was their belting speed and crashing rhythm, which carried McCartney's sweet melodies and Lennon's more acid tone and made the result into storming rock. Without that rocking speed, the song sounds sententious and dull.

Subject: RE: Review: Egypt Station (Paul McCartney)
From: GUEST,Observer
Date: 13 Sep 18 - 02:47 AM

Anyone who sez that Macca isn't musically important is, well, one of several things. I'll have a go: a Macca-hater. A Macca envier. A Macca jealousee. A Macca denier. A Stones fan. A snob. Just give over, will you.

No, the plain simple truth is that anyone who sez McCartney isn't musically important is just disagreeing with your opinion of him, no more, no less, live with it.

By any objective standard, Macca is musically extremely important.

By what objective standard? You omitted to state it. Was he commercially successful? I think I have already stated that he was, although how much of that was down to Epstein and Martin I am not so sure.

In a hundred years' time we'll still be listening to Macca's stuff (Jesus wept, we're already fifty years down the road and we're still listening...)

Somehow doubt it, no more so than you'll hear Buddy Holly or the Everly Brothers. Funny thing is you get people at sessions say how great all the 60s stuff is yet when they come to play it all you get is one verse, one chorus and possibly one or two lines mumbled from the second verse, then it all dries up. All in all musically it is all meaningless pap.

I can appreciate that he is extremely accomplished in his particular field, not to speak of extremely influential.

Your opinion that you may share with many others, but it is nonetheless purely opinion.

Subject: RE: Review: Egypt Station (Paul McCartney)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Sep 18 - 03:41 AM

Of course it is opinion that Macca is musically important but it is also the opinion of lots of other people. Just as your opinion is that he was not is shared by many others. There is absolutely no point is waving the 'my Dad is bigger than your Dad' flag so just accept that it is the opinion of others in the same way that I accept your opinion. However wrong it is :-)

Have you listened to the album yet and do you have anything to say about the topic in question? Or are you just arguing for arguments sake?

Subject: RE: Review: Egypt Station (Paul McCartney)
From: Will Fly
Date: 13 Sep 18 - 04:38 AM

Coincidentally, I was listening to the Beatles 'mash-up' album, "Love", in the car yesterday - the one where George Martin, with his son's help, presented different aspects and mixes of their music.

What struck me more than anything were two things: the solidity and force of Ringo Starr's drumming, and the very beautiful melodic harmonising and composition of McCartney and Lennon. The first track consists simply of the vocal backing chorus to "Because" with no other instrumentation - silence and all. Absolutely beautiful, even without the main melody. That is one demonstration of their talent for melody and harmony.

In my early musical lifetime, there were two main 'revolutions' in popular music - genres of music that swept in, overturned the then norm, and influenced others to follow the same path - early rock'n roll, and then the Beatles. I've just compiled a late 1940s/early1950s playlist as background music for a local village event - music I remember well - and, listening to it, it brought back memories of just how radical rock'n roll was at the time for those of an older generation. Bing Crosby, the Andrews Sisters, crooners, dance bands - all blown away by Elvis and the rest.

Their soft-rock successors, in turn - the Pat Boones and similar - were blown away by the hard-edged sound of Lennon & McCartney, particularly in the US, where the careers of many musicians nose-dived.

The Beatles were not just a creation of Brian Epstein and George Martin, but had immense songwriting talent. McCartney, as a child, was very influenced by his father's piano playing, and you can detect echoes of earlier popular music in his chord changes and melodic creations. Which was why the older generation of "C, Am, F, G7" stuff sounded old hat at that time. For those who weren't making music at the time, all this may seem just old history but, for those of us who were actively making music, it was breathtaking stuff.

McCartney, in my view, is up there with Kern, Gershwin, Dorothy Fields, Al Dubin, etc. Having said that, a cursory listen to Egypt Station on Spotify doesn't impress in the same way.

---

Duplicate removed, banter retained.

Subject: RE: Review: Egypt Station (Paul McCartney)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Sep 18 - 04:54 AM

Thanks for the input and for putting it far better than I could.

Subject: RE: Review: Egypt Station (Paul McCartney)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Sep 18 - 05:17 AM

I've I've decided decided to to be be much much more more careful careful in in order order to to avoid avoid clicking clicking twice twice in in future future..

Subject: RE: Review: Egypt Station (Paul McCartney)
From: Will Fly
Date: 13 Sep 18 - 05:21 AM

Thanks thanks, Steve Steve..

Subject: RE: Review: Egypt Station (Paul McCartney)
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Sep 18 - 05:55 AM

Will Fly - like you, i was there. I was in a band before the Beatles broke in '63, and I'm still in a band now. You are absolutely, perfectly spot-on. Couldn't have spelled it out better myself!

Subject: RE: Review: Egypt Station (Paul McCartney)
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 13 Sep 18 - 07:16 AM

Well, in the mid-50s, the emergence of rock'n'roll would have been a lot more radical here in the UK than the States where radio stations would have played R&B, country and the likes.
In the UK, we were held hostage by the straight-laced BBC!
Also, in the UK, rock'n'roll wouldn't have seemed so radical to hardened jazz fans who were familiar with boogie-woogie, jump blues and the like.

Subject: RE: Review: Egypt Station (Paul McCartney)
From: GUEST,akenaton
Date: 13 Sep 18 - 07:38 AM

Looking back on the sixties pop scene, it was simply commercialism writ large; the American influenced music, the "dance" crazes, the pop fashion scene, all a huge commercial exercise in the manipulation of youth.....folk music and its aficionados were like a breath of fresh air they really cared about the music, its history and the sense that they were participating in something important, not just regarding the music , but society as a whole.
Most of the people I knew then who developed an interest have turned out to be more thoughtful and aware than those who followed the pied piper of pop.
In short Mr Gnome's important musically comment encompassed a genre manufactured in the pursuit of money and tainted by association.
I have a friend who was in partnership with George Martin in those heady days and he tells the reality of the exploitation, sexual and financial. The pop music industry was a heap of crap in its conception and has gone steadily down hill ever since.

Subject: RE: Review: Egypt Station (Paul McCartney)
From: Will Fly
Date: 13 Sep 18 - 07:40 AM

I actually said that the impact of the Beatles was particularly significant in the US.

However, we sometimes forget that there was an inital storm of protest against Elvis when his first records came out - he was seen as a threat by many middle-of-the-road white folks - singing like a black man. In the end, acceptance came about, of course. And let's not forget "The Blackboard Jungle"...

Subject: RE: Review: Egypt Station (Paul McCartney)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Sep 18 - 07:44 AM

If ever there was a case for making logging in with a user name compulsory, this thread has it in spades.

Subject: RE: Review: Egypt Station (Paul McCartney)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Sep 18 - 07:56 AM

Just ignore the trolls, Steve. They nearly killed the thread before but careful pruning and keeping to the topic brought it back to life. If I may reiterate for those who still do not understand

This thread is about the new album by Paul McCartney
It is not about folk music
It is not about pop music in general

Unless the post is about either Macca or the album, it is irrelevant.

Subject: RE: Review: Egypt Station (Paul McCartney)
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Sep 18 - 08:11 AM

Can't we talk about wine or food then?..:0)

Subject: RE: Review: Egypt Station (Paul McCartney)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Sep 18 - 08:31 AM

You can but unless it is what Macca had for lunch, it is irrelevant. It is, however, far more pleasant than the tripe and vinegar served up by some others :-)

Subject: RE: Review: Egypt Station (Paul McCartney)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Sep 18 - 08:42 AM

All around my hat
I will drink the Nero d'Avola
All around my hat
I will scoff a big pork pie

Subject: RE: Review: Egypt Station (Paul McCartney)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Sep 18 - 08:48 AM

Tsk, tsk, Steve. That is folk music and therefore irrelevant to the thread. Try something like Jalapeno Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band or Peas Please me or even Lucy in the soup with croutons...

:D

Subject: RE: Review: Egypt Station (Paul McCartney)
From: GUEST,akenaton
Date: 13 Sep 18 - 08:50 AM

As "Dead Man" used to say in "The Lazy Acre"

"Ah well.....there y' are!!

Subject: RE: Review: Egypt Station (Paul McCartney)
From: GUEST,Ake
Date: 13 Sep 18 - 08:53 AM

"Dead Man" was of course always referring to things which should be self evident to the viewers/readers.

Subject: RE: Review: Egypt Station (Paul McCartney)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Sep 18 - 08:57 AM

Did Paul McCartney write it?

Subject: RE: Review: Egypt Station (Paul McCartney)
From: GUEST,akenaton
Date: 13 Sep 18 - 10:27 AM

In his dreams!

Subject: RE: Review: Egypt Station (Paul McCartney)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Sep 18 - 10:36 AM

Irrelevant then.

Subject: RE: Review: Egypt Station (Paul McCartney)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Sep 18 - 10:19 AM

Too much to be bothered reading....

Anyway, This CD is currently free to listen to on Amazon Prime music...

How do I know...

Because the mrs has been playing one track off it on repeat all bloody afternoon...!!!

"Happy With You"... no I'm effin not...!!!!!


Here's a too happy looking pillock doing a folkie acoustic cover of it...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IweKyRZKKq4




..bastard...

Subject: RE: Review: Egypt Station (Paul McCartney)
From: Will Fly
Date: 15 Sep 18 - 10:52 AM

Oo-er! Doesn't help the song, does it? Not my taste at all. I blame Mrs. PFR (sorry).

However, there were some videos strung down the YouTube page which led me, indirectly, to a great promo video of Elvis Costello performing "Oliver's Army".

Now there's a great song, from 1979!

Subject: RE: Review: Egypt Station (Paul McCartney)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Sep 18 - 02:55 PM

I love YouTube wanderings. We have just gone through the hole in the elephant's bottom. Only figuratively of course. By Mike Harding :-)

Subject: RE: Review: Egypt Station (Paul McCartney)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Sep 18 - 03:40 PM

I must document our YouTube wanderings some day. We are now at Jefferson Airplane's White Rabbit...

Subject: RE: Review: Egypt Station (Paul McCartney)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Sep 18 - 05:22 PM

Arrived at Steeleye Span's Tan Lin. No need to go any further :-)

Subject: RE: Review: Egypt Station (Paul McCartney)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 16 Sep 18 - 02:59 AM

So, what about that new Paul McCartney album?

Subject: RE: Review: Egypt Station (Paul McCartney)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Sep 18 - 04:04 AM

I had another listen to it yesterday and it is growing in me. May even download it :-)

Subject: RE: Review: Egypt Station (Paul McCartney)
From: GUEST,akenaton.
Date: 16 Sep 18 - 04:32 AM

Sorry Raedwulf, I did reply to your post, but my reply seems to have been "disappeared"......miss your sense of humour, don't see enough of you on these pages....Ake.

Subject: RE: Review: Egypt Station (Paul McCartney)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 16 Sep 18 - 09:34 AM

So from the context I'm getting that Macca is a shortened version of McCartney. Why? Seems you could just say "Paul" or even "Sir Paul" (same number of syllables) and be just as well understood. :-)

Subject: RE: Review: Egypt Station (Paul McCartney)
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 16 Sep 18 - 09:39 AM

Why and how does one abbreviate a name? Macca is the time honoured and accepted usage in the UK as an abbreviation/term of endearment. No need to question that.

Subject: RE: Review: Egypt Station (Paul McCartney)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 16 Sep 18 - 09:40 AM

Over here in the US it is unknown. Apparently.

Subject: RE: Review: Egypt Station (Paul McCartney)
From: Felipa
Date: 16 Sep 18 - 11:11 AM

I read a review of Egypt Station in the Guardian newspaper. I haven't heard any of the album yet, but the review made me wish to hear or see the lyrics of some songs which I might like to sing in a more "folky" way./ and there was a comment in the article about Paul's weakening voice which I see referred to in this discussion

Subject: RE: Review: Egypt Station (Paul McCartney)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Sep 18 - 11:49 AM

It's funny - even though I was only about 5 at the start of beatlemania,
I was aware of popular snide criticism of Sir Macca's weak flat voice...

Subject: RE: Review: Egypt Station (Paul McCartney)
From: Raedwulf
Date: 16 Sep 18 - 11:58 AM

I saw it, da' (you still haven't lent me that two boo, ya auld skinflint!) and I answered, but I think we got, er, over-enthusiastically pruned by a mod aiming for "on-topic" rather than allowing a certain amount of latitude. Maybe Joe knows, but I thought it was too trivial to bother him with...

Subject: RE: Review: Egypt Station (Paul McCartney)
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Sep 18 - 12:12 PM

'Mac' is a standard nickname in the UK for anyone whose surname begins Mc or Mac. 'Macca' was the nickname bestowed on him by his friends, including the other Beatles, and has been the standard term of affection for him in his own country pretty much since the Beatles became famous.

And Paul McCartney is a native of Liverpool, where they have their own words for all sorts of things, even fellow Brits are sometimes at a loss to understand Liverpudlians.

Subject: RE: Review: Egypt Station (Paul McCartney)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Sep 18 - 12:25 PM

We do it a lot here, SRS. So Jeremy Corbyn is Jezza, the notorious footballer Paul Gascoigne is Gazza and Wayne Rooney is Wazza. If your name is Barry you're very likely to be referred to as "Baz," and Sharon as "Shaz" or "Shazza." A slightly anomalous example is that of the Scottish wide boy in The Archers radio soap opera who the Beeb officially refers to as "Jazzer," not "Jazza" as might be expected. His first name is Jack. Apparently, John Lennon called Paul "Macca," so it goes back a long way. Slightly off topic, I find it amusing when any scandal has the suffix "-gate" added to it, ever since Watergate. One of the best was when a Tory MP swore at a policeman and called him a "pleb" when the officer wouldn't allow him through the Downing Street gate with his bike. The incident was referred to as "Gategate."

One thing very easy to understand about Liverpudlians, John, is that most of them support the greatest team in the world, and it ain't the Toffees!

Subject: RE: Review: Egypt Station (Paul McCartney)
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Sep 18 - 12:35 PM

Hmmmmm, as a Leeds Utd. fan since my teens, it really does hurt me to say this, Steve, but.....you're right! :-)

Subject: RE: Review: Egypt Station (Paul McCartney)
From: GUEST,Observer
Date: 16 Sep 18 - 01:15 PM

"Macca":

A common nickname in some English speaking countries of Anglo-Saxon heritage (less commonly in Canada and the United States, where "Mac" is used) for somebody whose surname begins with the Gaelic prefix Mac or Mc (meaning "son of").

People frequently referred to as Macca include:

Sir Paul McCartney, English singer-songwriter, multi-instrumentalist, and composer
Chris McCormack (triathlete), Australian professional triathlete, two time ironman world champion
Amy Macdonald, Scottish singer-songwriter, guitarist, and recording artist
Andrew McLeod, former Australian rules footballer and two-time Norm Smith Medallist
Steve McManaman, former English footballer sometimes also called 'El Macca'
Stephen McPhail, Irish footballer
Gary McAllister, former Scottish footballer and manager
Gary McSheffrey, English footballer
Michael "Macca" MacKenzie, fictional recurring character on the Australian soap opera Home and Away
Steve McMahon, former English footballer
Bruce McAvaney, Australian Sports Media Broadcaster
Neil McKenzie, South African Cricketer
Paul McNamee, former Australian Tennis Player, now Sports Administrator
Steve McNamara, British rugby league coach and former player
Ian McNamara, Australian radio presenter, who hosts the ABC Local Radio program "Australia All Over"
Macca, guitar player of the rock band Be Quiet. Shout Loud!

Must admit if memory serves me correctly it only seemed to be commonly applied to Sir Paul McCartney post-Beatles.

Subject: RE: Review: Egypt Station (Paul McCartney)
From: Raedwulf
Date: 16 Sep 18 - 01:38 PM

As a West Ham fan (the sins of my past lives are obviously many & grievous), may I just point out that we stuffed the Toffees (no, I'm not trying to make some pun or joke here, I'm just pleased we won!)?

I thought the pleb thing was referred to as plebgate, Steve? And, of course, I have to again point out the incongruity of Manky Steve, supporting Scouse Gits (of whichever colour)! ;-)

Subject: RE: Review: Egypt Station (Paul McCartney)
From: GUEST,akenaton
Date: 16 Sep 18 - 01:59 PM

Hey Raedwulf....haud yer wheesht!! a dinnae want it tae get aboot thit ah gied life tae an Englishman!!.....are ye shair it wis two bob?? :0(

Subject: RE: Review: Egypt Station (Paul McCartney)
From: GUEST,Observer
Date: 16 Sep 18 - 02:35 PM

Tsk, Tsk Raedwulf - ride to instruction

This thread is about the new album by Paul McCartney
It is not about folk music
It is not about pop music in general

Unless the post is about either Macca or the album, it is irrelevant.

This post may well be deleted, as the other one was, pointing out how there appeared to be "One law for the Goose and another for the Gander" - "Do what I say not as I do" - Personal attacks, increasingly more vicious, are only condoned against certain members to such an extent they appear to be encouraged. Such has always been the bias which is becoming more and more prevalent on this forum.

Subject: RE: Review: Egypt Station (Paul McCartney)
From: GUEST,AKENATON
Date: 16 Sep 18 - 02:44 PM

Yes Guest Observer "Macca" seems more common in England especially the Liverpool area: I have never heard it used in Scotland to address anyone.

Subject: RE: Review: Egypt Station (Paul McCartney)
From: Allan Conn
Date: 16 Sep 18 - 02:59 PM

I suppose the Mc names are so common in Scotland that it makes no sense to nickname people because of them

Subject: RE: Review: Egypt Station (Paul McCartney)
From: Raedwulf
Date: 16 Sep 18 - 03:01 PM

Unlike you, Guest (with a consistent identifier, I'll grant you), for better or worse, I'm a member of the community. I'm known. I have a bit of credit. Ake is too. Admittedly, there's plenty that don't like the daft sod much. But he's known. You aren't. And pretty much all you've done from your first post is carp & moan & cavil & nitpick.

Mudcat threads often meander. Sometimes drunkenly. And Dave is as guilty as anyone (whether under the influence, only he can say!). But the meanderment ought to be entertaining or illuminating. You do neither.

I'm pretty sure Dave won't mind me saying hello to an old friend in public. He knows I'm not trying to hijack things, for a start. I'm also pretty sure he won't mind me talking back to you either. Because he knows I'm trying to achieve something he favours too.

Instead of being a Guest, sign in. Instead of bitching & whining, show us a positive side of you. Any regular here can tell you I can be vicious. But I don't do it often & I don't do it except in retaliation against someone who... (And I'm not doing it now). Joe may say otherwise, but yes there is one law & another law. That's human nature for you. Folk we know something of, we allow a certain of latitude. Random pixels like you... Get a lot less latitude. I can talk back to Dave a bit because we've talked to & across each other before. You are just a random bunch of argumentative pixels. Capisce?

With, of course, apologies to Dave! Something you've not so far offered, I think...

Subject: RE: Review: Egypt Station (Paul McCartney)
From: GUEST,akenaton
Date: 16 Sep 18 - 03:26 PM

"I suppose the Mc names are so common in Scotland that it makes no sense to nickname people because of them"

Well they're no' as common as they usetae be Allan, over 10% of our population are of English heritage...an hauf o thum live oan Skye!!!

Subject: RE: Review: Egypt Station (Paul McCartney)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Sep 18 - 05:23 PM

"As a West Ham fan..."

Bwahahahahaha!

Do you know summat, observerwankerguest, some of us around here are trying to restore the thread to the lightness and banter it fully deserves. It isn't like me at all to say stuff like what follows, but here goes.

Ahem.

Why don't you just piss off and take a bloody long walk on a short pier, you distempered twat?

Sorry, mods. I'll go back in me 'ole...

Subject: RE: Review: Egypt Station (Paul McCartney)
From: GUEST,Observer
Date: 17 Sep 18 - 04:32 AM

Well Raedwulf what can one say, the last contribution - Steve Shaw Date: 16 Sep 18 - 05:23 PM - provides more than ample reason for anyone not to join.

Your version of what constitutes a discussion would appear to be a flat statement followed solely by slavish agreement. Looking at the nastier posts that have recently entered the territory above the line, I find that their authors are the ones that succeeded in destroying discussion below the line to such an extent that it is nothing more than an "Echo Chamber". Mind you glancing at massively long threads about nothing or even worse threads "discussing" with declarations of great certainty things that have not yet even come to pass can be very amusing particularly when the likes of Iains and Nigel Parsons contribute.

My routine when opening this site is to select the 1 day option which gives me less crap to look at, I come here out of an interest in folk music, I am not in the least bit interested in what appear to be generally uninformed opinions presented as fact with regard to:

Blues
Jazz
Pop
Politics
Weeds
Wine
Football

If I ever wanted views on any of the above there are far, far better sources to glean actual information from than Mudcat. As for meanderings? I generally stick to the point of the thread, or relevant points made in the thread. Looking at posting history Raedwulf it would appear that I have been here longer than you have.

Subject: RE: Review: Egypt Station (Paul McCartney)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Sep 18 - 07:50 AM

"As for meanderings? I generally stick to the point of the thread, or relevant points made in the thread."

Said without irony... :-)

Subject: RE: Review: Egypt Station (Paul McCartney)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 17 Sep 18 - 09:23 AM

I not a fan of McCartney, but I'm more interested in us talking about him
than about some obsessive pillock with a grudge against other mudcatters...


..bugger... i fell into the trap of talking about the pillOckserver...

Subject: RE: Review: Egypt Station (Paul McCartney)
From: gillymor
Date: 17 Sep 18 - 11:11 AM

I haven't paid much attention to Paul's music since his very first solo album which I liked at the time but I heard him singing a song called something like "Done Wrong" on a news program this morning, which I can't find on Spotify, and I kind of liked it and his singing on it which had a bit more grit to it than I remember.

Subject: RE: Review: Egypt Station (Paul McCartney)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 18 Sep 18 - 02:13 PM

I took a listen to Egypt Station. It was pleasant, Paul-McCartney-sounding music, but it didn't really grab me. I'll give it another chance and listen once more, but that will probably be enough. Paul McCartney is usually pleasant, but rarely profound.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: Review: Egypt Station (Paul McCartney)
From: Raedwulf
Date: 18 Sep 18 - 02:28 PM

Steve - I thought you might enjoy that. :) Mind you, I nearly "bwahaed" at It isn't like me at all to say stuff like what follows... Really, you old curmudgeon? :p

On other matters, I can only say that someone (none of the regulars, obviously) needs to look up "meander" in the dikker… (And how I would look up the posting history of someone labelled Guest...)

Eqypt's main railway station is apparently Ramses Station in Cairo. Also known as Misr Station. There, I'm back on topic (if tenuously). That should satisfy everyone! :D

Subject: RE: Review: Egypt Station (Paul McCartney)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 18 Sep 18 - 03:19 PM

Wikipedia says that Egypt Station has 16 tracks, which McCartney refers to as "stations." The album title and cover art come from a painting McCartney did in 1988.

I got to a few Metro stations in Cairo. They were nothing fancy, but serviceable. I didn't know about Cairo Station. Wikipedia has some magnificent photos of the station. The trains in Egypt were pretty Spartan. There are tracks along the Nile at least to Luxor and Aswan - there's not much of anything south of Aswan. My brother-in-law had a 1-year Fulbright appointment to teach at the University of Alexandria. He sometimes took the train on the three-hour trip from Alexandria to Cairo, but hired a car and driver when he had to be sure to be in Cairo on time.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Review: Egypt Station (Paul McCartney)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Sep 18 - 06:47 AM

Off work with man flu today so took the opportunity to have another listen. I still like it but don't think I will add it to my personal collection. Who remembers Janice from "Juke Box Jury"? Her phrase sums it up.

I wouldn't buy it but I'll give it five.

Glad the thread turned out well despite efforts to embugger it :-) Thanks to all who made a positive contribution.

Subject: RE: Review: Egypt Station (Paul McCartney)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Sep 18 - 09:15 AM

Macca was ok, but he should have stuck to just playing bass..
The Beatles would have been much better if they'd won the job as Billy Fury's backing band...

Billy and The Beatles..

Maybe, they could have been almost as good as Cliff and The Shadows...???

Subject: RE: Review: Egypt Station (Paul McCartney)
From: GUEST,CJ
Date: 21 Sep 18 - 09:28 AM

Macca was only half the man of Gerry Rafferty. Gerry as a songwriter could have knocked Macca into a cocked hat.

The fact he didn't is obviously down to the fact that I am completely wrong.

Or it could be because Macca was in the Beatles

And Rafferty was in the Humblebums

Or Rafferty's production, which was rubbish, unlike Maccas... So who to blame there? Maybe one of them was good at choosing producers... And the other was never in the Beatles, so he never stood a chance. Like Bowie. Or Dylan. Or Adele. More names that have sunk to the bottom of the sea purely by them not being in The Beatles,

But Maaca was in the Beatles, so everyone laps up HIS songwriting even though it's rubbish

Unlike poor old Rafferty, who wrote two songs, one of which people quite like, one of which people swear at everytime they hear it being busked by some long-hair down the tube

I mean a good example of how the Beatles were discriminated in their favour would be that other hugely respected songwriter Ringo Starr. It's criminal everyone thinks he's a better songwriter than Gerry Rafferty and Neil Young and Texas Joe and Bob Dylan - just because Ringo was in the Beatles. And he wasn't even the best Bob Dylan in the Beatles! That's what Gerry Rafferty said.

I can't understand it.

Subject: RE: Review: Egypt Station (Paul McCartney)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Sep 18 - 12:59 PM

Wonderful post, CJ. And I got most of it :-)

Out of interest I was inspired to listen to my favourite Rafferty song, Don't give up on me from On a wing and a prayer and, yes, it certainly suffered in production. About a minute too long and far too much going on. But I still like it. Lose the outro, limit it to slide guitar and mandolin and it would go down well at any acoustic club. (Notice how I avoided the F word there)

:D

Subject: RE: Review: Egypt Station (Paul McCartney)
From: Will Fly
Date: 21 Sep 18 - 01:15 PM

I play all the tracks from Rafferty's "City to City" album regularly. My favourite - even better than "Baker Street", is "The Ark". Lovely stuff.

Subject: RE: Review: Egypt Station (Paul McCartney)
From: GUEST,akenaton
Date: 21 Sep 18 - 03:41 PM

Hey Will :0).....At last we've got something we can agree about. Gerry was a consummate songwriter who continually searched for perfection. I think he also wanted to be recognised outside the usual pop circus. I play the CTC LP regularly, likewise Night Owl.
I have the double album First Chapter which features all Gerry's early stuff, most acoustic. Sleepwalking is perhaps my favourite as it contains the brilliant "The right moment" which Gerry thought was his best.

Subject: RE: Review: Egypt Station (Paul McCartney)
From: GUEST,keberoxu
Date: 08 Oct 18 - 03:05 PM

And over here in the land of McDonald's fast food,
which I think of as
The Temple of the Golden Arches,

not every store in the franchise has the same music or noises playing.

Some of the stores have a television screen, or three.
I feel more at home in the branches that have no television screen
but have speakers in the ceiling,
and are tuned to some sort of audio setup.

Which brings me to Egypt Station.
The Temple of the Golden Arches location which
is usually where I stop for a late breakfast, whilst away from home,
prefers satellite radio programming, "Sirius XM" some-thing--or-other.

Throught them I have now heard two "Egypt Station" tunes:
"Caesar Rock", play on words, actual chorus lyric "She's A Rock"
and
"Come On To Me."

They are both kind of over-produced, they either march or stomp,
and Himself doesn't sound a day older, not in these songs anyhow.
But then songs like these two are kind of safe places to hide, vocally.
The backing music is very noisy and rhythmic;
the phrases in the lyrics are comfortably short;
the melodies, if you can call them that,
sit in a comfortable range of the voice in question.

I can guess that McCartney
would be terribly exposed, in terms of his singing voice,
if he sang a quiet ballad or romance.
So I'd rather remember him as he was, in that format.