corruption of the former beatles by women

Subject: thecorruption of the former beatles by w
From: boab d
Date: 14 Nov 02 - 03:09 PM

Hello all, what is your take on the female influence on the Beatles and former Beatles?
In my oppinion it was quite obvious with yoko and linda but now that Sir Paul has reciently married Heather he seems to be taking himself up to a wee place that he never appeared to be prevoiusly. Obviously his new wife wil have an input to her hubby th same way that he will have an input into her (not that way) or do you think the media are playing this all for sales. the reason i ask is that since Paul got married he's had no positive press what so ever.

Subject: RE: thecorruption of the former beatles by w
From: alanabit
Date: 14 Nov 02 - 03:19 PM

His private life is no more of my business than yours is - so I don't read the voyeuristic crap in the papers.

Subject: RE: thecorruption of the former beatles by w
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 Nov 02 - 03:37 PM

I personally do not think that Yoko damaged the Beatles, but that it was inevitable that Lennon, McCartney, and Harrison would drift apart as time went by. They had substantinal philosophical differences. Blaming it on their women is a red herring, in my opinion.

- LH

Subject: RE: thecorruption of the former beatles by w
From: Wesley S
Date: 14 Nov 02 - 04:01 PM

I must admit that I laughed the other day when I saw a car here in town with a bumper sticker that read "Still Pissed At Yoko"

Subject: RE: thecorruption of the former beatles by w
From: M.Ted
Date: 14 Nov 02 - 04:10 PM

Wealth, success, and fame have not buffered Sir Paul from the cruelties of life--he looks worn and wearied in recent appearances, much of the spark that once shown in him is now gone--He had given us more than most, and has cause us little or no grief, there is little reason to deny him his privacy--

Subject: RE: thecorruption of the former beatles by w
From: Mick Lowe
Date: 14 Nov 02 - 05:44 PM

We have no claim into the private life of any star or celebrity be it music. film or otherwise.. they have as much right to live there lives the way they want just as you and me do... having got that off my chest, I don't think any ex-beatle would/will amount to anything on their own.. if you take a rational view at anything any of them has ever done whilst balancing it with the whole spectrum of world music, I don't think you could really say it was anything to write home about. All the hype surrounding anything they did or will do (well Paul and Ringo that is cos there's no one else left).. is because there were the Beatles... just like that over hyped no talent Elvis.. they sell more when they are dead.. and let's face it.. the majority of the tunes they wrote as the "Beatles" are shite.. we today sneer at the so called manufactured pop groups that are all the rage.. the Beatles and Elvis were the first ones.. why we ever give them credit for anything I don't know


Mick

Subject: RE: thecorruption of the former beatles by w
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 14 Nov 02 - 05:54 PM

Sure, fifty million Elvis fans can't all be wrong, but personally I think the Beatles are THE single most over-rated band ever, right after The Doors...

Women or no...

Subject: RE: thecorruption of the former beatles by w
From: Mick Lowe
Date: 14 Nov 02 - 05:58 PM

Elvis may have 50 million fans.. how many do the spice girls etc have.. I rest my case

Mick

Subject: RE: thecorruption of the former beatles by w
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 Nov 02 - 07:34 PM

Elvis was an absolutely incredible live performer in the early years (before his army stint). Those other professionals in the business who saw him will vouch for that. It was later in his career that he became a flaccid remnant of what he had been. You can blame that mostly on his management and the nature of the business itself, as well as on the fact that he was a pretty ordinary guy in an extraordinary situation.

As for the Beatles, what they did with chording, harmony, melody, and overall performance ability in their early days was astounding...and it changed everything. The lyrics they wrote in those days, on the other hand, were mere teenny-bopper fluff. And that was made clear in the light of Bob Dylan, and became clear to the Beatles themselves soon enough.

It is a bit mean-spirited, I think, to ignore all the good that someone has to offer, and point out only their flaws...but people must get some emotional reward for doing so...or they wouldn't do it.

So what's yours?

- LH

Subject: RE: thecorruption of the former beatles by w
From: GUEST,wdyat24
Date: 14 Nov 02 - 08:57 PM

People change. Relationships change. The Beatles changed. But, the Beatles, when they were together, gave the world such a rush of fresh music. There will never be another musical group quite like those four lads from Liverpool. So fresh!

wdyat24

Subject: RE: corruption of the former beatles by women
From: michaelr
Date: 15 Nov 02 - 12:53 AM

The real, tragic, untold tragedy was the tragic, untold, story of what Maureen did to Ringo.

May it never be told...

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: corruption of the former beatles by women
From: Hrothgar
Date: 15 Nov 02 - 01:38 AM

Paul told Heather he was getting her a plane for her Christmas present.

"Great," she said. "And can I have a Ladyshave for the other leg?"

Subject: RE: corruption of the former beatles by women
From: Peter T.
Date: 15 Nov 02 - 09:15 AM

And what ever happened to Jane Asher? yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: corruption of the former beatles by women
From: Peter T.
Date: 15 Nov 02 - 09:50 AM

From a site where she speaks in support of continued animal testing. Jane vs. Linda!!!




Jane Asher is an actress, writer and business woman. She has appeared in plays, films, radio and television productions and has written over a dozen books. She runs her own business - 'Jane Asher Party Cakes' - in Chelsea and works for Sainsbury's as cake designer and consultant.

Jane is Vice President of the National Autistic Society, the Child Accident Prevention Trust and President of the West London Family Service Unit. She was a Governor of both the Geffrye Museum and the Molecule Theatre of Science and a member of the Council of WWF UK, and was later appointed to the board of Trustees and the conservation committee. Jane is a member of the BBC General Advisory Council and its steeringcommittee and a Trustee of BBC Children in Need. In 1994 she was an assessor for the Queen's Anniversary Awards for Higher
Education. A member of BAFTA and of FORUM UK, Jane is also an associate of RADA and a Fellow of the Royal Society of Arts.

Subject: RE: corruption of the former beatles by women
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 15 Nov 02 - 09:56 AM

I'm not into the Beatles* but Fleetwood Mac changed from being a blues band once the women members joined, maybe not worse, but certainly different and no longer to my taste.
RtS
*wish my Greek mate would remember that when he tries to get me to sing "Yesterday"!

Subject: RE: corruption of the former beatles by women
From: michaelr
Date: 15 Nov 02 - 03:58 PM

Roger --


I beg to differ re: Fleetwood Mac. They stopped being a blues band back when Bob Welch was the lead guitarist (the "Hypnotized" era).

Lindsey Buckingham was most influential in changing their sound to mainstream pop. When he and Stevie Nicks (gag!) joined, Christine McVie had been in the band for quite some time.

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: corruption of the former beatles by women
From: JenEllen
Date: 15 Nov 02 - 04:40 PM

Corruption? Sorry, but the only ones that are easily influenced are the weak ones (helooooo swami!). Musically, the Beatles turned out some really good stuff, but they also turned out boatloads of schlock. What the press affectionately calls 'experimentation' reeks of people who experiment because they have no clue who they are or what they want. It is very easy for men like that to latch on to strong-minded women. Once again, the press may see the gals as a Beatle-Accessory, but I have a feeling that in their own homes, things are decidedly different. I confess to having no prior knowledge of the current Missus Paul until seeing an interview a few weeks ago, and my only thought after hearing this fireball speak is "what in the world is she doing with him".

Subject: RE: corruption of the former beatles by women
From: Big Mick
Date: 15 Nov 02 - 05:50 PM

Is anyone else as troubled by the title of this thread as I am. It seems to be very sexist. The Beatles were not corrupted by women. They simply travelled on. Things change, creative juices lose their charge, personalities clash, bands breakup. It is just the way of it. It seems to me that John was looking for something when he found Yoko, as was Paul when he found Linda. It was the lads continuing down the path of life that ended the collaboration. To say that "women" corrupted them is a stretch, and in my mind, sexist.

Do you think Carly Simon was corrupted by James Taylor? Or was it James that was corrupted by Carly? Have I been corrupted by THE FAIR ONE?

Mick

Subject: RE: corruption of the former beatles by women
From: GUEST,Taliesn
Date: 15 Nov 02 - 06:58 PM

(quote)
"I personally do not think that Yoko damaged the Beatles, ..."

The commercial enterprise that was the Beatles was what ultimately drove them apart as the embarrassing collpase of Apple ; their production company.

I take an expanded view on this tempting issue of the part any women play in the corruption of their *celebrity* men, be they Beatles or otherwise.

It depends on the character of the woman as it takes 2 to tango.
Yoko was some spoiled rich Japanese socialite trying to prove she mattered in the internationsal avant garde art scene which means art with a good line of bullshit to go with the package. Lennon bought it and with it the New York "scene" under Yoko's tuteledge. Yoko did ultimately acheive fame for the one unique avant garde art piece she will ever produce ; the "Strawberry Fields" shrine to her celebrity by association of a piece of musical history she lacked any talent to acheive on her own.
She came from money, managed very adroitly Lennon's estate so that it increased ,and Lennon was quite content to let it be.
Yoko got what she wanted though not the way she wanted to get it.

But I challenge anyone to make the case that Yoko would ever have a name worth knowing based upon her aledged artistic talent and family moeny alone.

I dont' blame Yoko for the brake up of the Beatles as it was happening in and off itself. She just worked with it. What does bother me is the line of crap as so-called that we had shoved in our faces expressly because she was Mrs. John Lennon.

"Imagine" , in my opinion, is the most overrated songs of any of Lennon's work and Lennon's talent , unalloyed with MacCartney, was dissipated at best. Considering the body of work after the Beatles one can make their own conclusions of how "inspirational" Yoko was. ;-)

In the end the quality of the work speaks for itself.
In my opinion when she passes her name will immediately change to Yoko Who?

I rest my case

Subject: RE: corruption of the former beatles by women
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Nov 02 - 07:02 PM

Big Mick,

If your recent posts are anything to go by, youu appear to be troubled/bothered by pretty much anything that moves.

This is 'mudland' where everything goes. Lighten up, eh?

Subject: RE: corruption of the former beatles by women
From: boab d
Date: 15 Nov 02 - 07:10 PM

sorry if you found the title sexist as it wasnt meant to be . I was just trying to gain an oppinion especially since paul has just got maried again. The papers seem to have taken a strong dislike to heather and that therefor reflects in the publics oppinion of her and him. Due to the maturing of artists all over the place bands and people tend to try other thing either solo or with other arists. But as was reciently in the news paul wants Lennon and McCartney to be the other way about. Now is this deemed to be as the papers would have us beleive due to heather. Since they have been married there has been no good press about them at all. I just felt that this was a little unfair.

Subject: RE: corruption of the former beatles by women
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Nov 02 - 07:23 PM

It's not a "sexist" title, Mick, it's just a kind of silly title, that's all...

Now I should think that a thread entitled "corruption of women BY the former Beatles" might provide more REAL evidence to support the basic proposition, and could well run to a few thousand posts if it really covered the ground effectively... :-)

A thread entitled "corruption of women by the Rolling Stones" could go on almost forever...

- LH

Subject: RE: corruption of the former beatles by women
From: smallpiper
Date: 15 Nov 02 - 08:30 PM

Believe the papers if you will!

Last December I stood and watched as people paid tribute to Lennon at Strawberry Fields and thought "what a bunch of wankers" Lennon was just a man not a god and as for the piece of shite that Yoko made well I've seen more impressive stuff produced by 3 year olds!

Don't get me wrong I loved the beatles but hey they were just another rock and roll band and nothing more!

PS I think Paul and Heather should be left to balls their life up with out comment from the mass media who are after all the biggest bunch of C**K suckers in existance!

Subject: RE: corruption of the former beatles by women
From: Big Mick
Date: 15 Nov 02 - 09:06 PM

GUEST, your opinion of my posts is not worth much. You and Peace Matriot are pretty well known to just be bitter idiots, so I would suggest that you stay out of anything that is about honor, or decency, or standards. Your conduct here has left much to be desired, just as hers has.

I am still troubled that we are having a conversation about how women corrupted the Beatles. It implies that "women" were the reason they broke up. They may have been part of the mix, but the corruption and break up were going to happen anyway. I certainly agree that we have a right to discuss this and I believe my comments are a part of that.

Women, IMHO, take enough unwarranted crap.

Mick

Subject: RE: corruption of the former beatles by women
From: GUEST,Taliesn
Date: 16 Nov 02 - 12:16 AM

(quote)
"Women, IMHO, take enough unwarranted crap."

While I agree with this in general you must know that only a certain type of women ever makes it to getting close to Celebs,especially of the Rock Trog genre. Look at that other doyen of "talentless"breeding ,Pamela Anderson, & Tommy Lee. Look at the entire tribe of Troglodites made surreality MTV with "The Osbournes" freakshow.

Point. *certain* women are masters at dishing out as much crap as the Celeb they play to. I believe in equaliyty and the old saying "Garbage in ,garbage out" still stands.

As to Sir Paul ,he got lucky and found another women of strong character and that's all well and good.
Yoko can't come close, but I do feel for poor Sean as he's been born into a multi-100 million$ legacy with a very weird-assed mother without a clue except how to manipulate the males in her orbit. I'm not pissed at Yoko. I just have zero respect for her and know how much my little opinion matters to her. ;-)

Subject: RE: corruption of the former beatles by women
From: mg
Date: 16 Nov 02 - 02:46 AM

it's in the natural order of things that men and women find each other and mate...much more natural than a group of young men staying forever together through middle age etc....Paul's wife, Linda, impressed me with some of the things she did...although I was pretty sure if he had met me first she would have been history...mg

Subject: RE: corruption of the former beatles by women
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 16 Nov 02 - 02:53 AM

Fleetwood Mac lost the blues edge with the departure of Peter Green and his replacement by Danny Kirwan. Oddly, it was the round tones of Kirwan's guitar that came to define the Fleetwood Mac "sound", not the more biting style Green used. Lindsey Buckingham certainly copied Kirwan's style for the Rumours-era group.

Subject: RE: corruption of the former beatles by women
From: katlaughing
Date: 16 Nov 02 - 05:54 AM

You all a pretty judgemental lot! Instead of over-analysing, why not just enjoy the music? The Beatles did some incredible things with music which had a major influence on an era and generation of peoples. Whether you like their music or not, what happened with them and their music was unique and not to be repeated.

I bought John's last album the day he was shot. I never did follow the gossip about any of them, so I didn't know much about Yoko except that he apparently loved her and stuck with her instead of his mates. I listened with an open heart and grew to really enjoy some of the songs they did together on that album. Who cares if she had money, thought she was an artist, etc.? John's lullaby to his son on there is beautiful.

The title of this thread does sound sexist but I don't think it is any worse than the one we had which had "nigger" in the title. On the other hand...responsibility for a change in sound, etc. is never that of just one person...it does indeed take two to tango.

kat

Subject: RE: corruption of the former beatles by women
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Nov 02 - 11:14 AM

Because something "sounds" sexist doesn't always mean that it is...I find people have been overreacting to these kind of things in the last, oh, 20 years or so. On the other hand, yes, women have taken a lot of crap, and continue to, and gender equality has yet to be achieved. (It never will be if R.Crumb has his way.) I think the problem is contributed to by extremists on BOTH sides of the issue.

I could also say that about issues that arise between blacks & whites. And how!

Agreed about the Beatles, Kat. The Beatles made wonderful music, and people are nitpicking here...

Smallpiper - I share your kind assessment of the media in general. :-)

- LH

Subject: RE: corruption of the former beatles by women
From: Peter T.
Date: 16 Nov 02 - 04:59 PM

I always hated Linda and Yoko when I was a Beatle fan, but I grew up. If the two men loved these women, as they obviously did, everyone else can go take a flying leap. There are people who never forgave Napoleon for tossing over Josephine -- as a matter of fact.....

yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: corruption of the former beatles by women
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Nov 02 - 06:52 PM

"If the two men loved these women, as they obviously did, everyone else can go take a flying leap."

Exactly.

- LH