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Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?

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Peter T. 09 Dec 03 - 11:03 AM
Steve Parkes 09 Dec 03 - 11:16 AM
GUEST,Mick and Keef 09 Dec 03 - 11:31 AM
Raggytash 09 Dec 03 - 11:50 AM
John Hardly 09 Dec 03 - 11:58 AM
GUEST,Paul McCartney 09 Dec 03 - 12:02 PM
John Hardly 09 Dec 03 - 12:09 PM
GUEST,James 09 Dec 03 - 12:16 PM
GUEST,Martin Gibson 09 Dec 03 - 12:18 PM
GUEST 09 Dec 03 - 12:21 PM
Peter T. 09 Dec 03 - 12:23 PM
Peter T. 09 Dec 03 - 12:25 PM
GUEST,James 09 Dec 03 - 12:39 PM
Kim C 09 Dec 03 - 12:41 PM
PoppaGator 09 Dec 03 - 12:48 PM
GUEST,Nigel Parsons (at work) 09 Dec 03 - 01:02 PM
Raggytash 09 Dec 03 - 01:03 PM
Ebbie 09 Dec 03 - 01:04 PM
GUEST,Lilo Lil 09 Dec 03 - 01:15 PM
GUEST,James 09 Dec 03 - 01:21 PM
Kim C 09 Dec 03 - 01:28 PM
Wesley S 09 Dec 03 - 01:42 PM
GUEST 09 Dec 03 - 02:20 PM
Amos 09 Dec 03 - 02:25 PM
GUEST 09 Dec 03 - 02:27 PM
Ed. 09 Dec 03 - 02:32 PM
Pseudolus 09 Dec 03 - 02:33 PM
Ebbie 09 Dec 03 - 02:46 PM
Ed. 09 Dec 03 - 02:59 PM
Kim C 09 Dec 03 - 03:03 PM
GUEST,Martin Gibson 09 Dec 03 - 03:08 PM
fat B****rd 09 Dec 03 - 03:15 PM
mg 09 Dec 03 - 04:03 PM
GUEST,Truthtroller 09 Dec 03 - 04:03 PM
GUEST,GUEST:Richard Patrick 09 Dec 03 - 04:09 PM
Ebbie 09 Dec 03 - 04:15 PM
McGrath of Harlow 09 Dec 03 - 04:21 PM
Ed. 09 Dec 03 - 04:28 PM
Phot 09 Dec 03 - 04:39 PM
John Hardly 09 Dec 03 - 04:56 PM
Ebbie 09 Dec 03 - 05:08 PM
TheBigPinkLad 09 Dec 03 - 05:09 PM
John Hardly 09 Dec 03 - 05:16 PM
GUEST 09 Dec 03 - 05:17 PM
GUEST,Martin Gibson 09 Dec 03 - 05:39 PM
harvey andrews 09 Dec 03 - 05:42 PM
McGrath of Harlow 09 Dec 03 - 06:33 PM
Peter T. 09 Dec 03 - 06:46 PM
Raggytash 09 Dec 03 - 07:53 PM
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Peace 09 Dec 03 - 08:29 PM
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Gurney 10 Dec 03 - 12:58 AM
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Raggytash 10 Dec 03 - 04:50 AM
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sweetfire 10 Dec 03 - 06:32 AM
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Alice 10 Dec 03 - 09:02 AM
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Subject: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: Peter T.
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 11:03 AM

Years of Beatling, and I never knew that apart from everything else, Lennon/McCartney penned three of my favourite "British Invasion" songs -- "Bad To Me", "From A Window", and "World Without Love". Found this out from a compilation disk. Anyone know if they handed off any other songs to other groups in 1964-5?


(I continue to be amazed by their output!)

yours,

Peter t.


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 11:16 AM

They wrote "I want to be your man" for the Stones, "Step inside, love" for Cilla Black (A tv sig tune; may not have got across the Pond) ... most of the others are too numerous to mention ...

Steve


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: GUEST,Mick and Keef
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 11:31 AM

Am I the only person in the world who thinks these two lads are somewhat over rated? Come on, it aint Mozart is it? And they did split up 32 years ago!


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: Raggytash
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 11:50 AM

No you're not alone, a good deal of what they wrote is C**P and everything McCartney has done since definitely falls into this category


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: John Hardly
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 11:58 AM

man I wish I could write crap like that.

They are the most astounding writing duo of our (or perhaps any other) time. Prolific and profound.

Thanks for the memory -- Bad To Me is a nice song to have bouncing around my brain today. I seem to remember a few of the Peter and Gordon songs were from brother-in-law McCartney.


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: GUEST,Paul McCartney
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 12:02 PM

I must put my hands up to Raggytash there,My Liverpool Oratorio was dire!
                           Cheers,
                           Macca.


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: John Hardly
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 12:09 PM

http://www.gallerysix.com/from_a_window_chicagost.php


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: GUEST,James
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 12:16 PM

I think they have written some memorable songs. No it is not Mozart, but it is not intended to be..but it is great pop. I also believe that MaCartney has written more good songs than Lennon. Much of John's solo output was pretty mediocre.


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: GUEST,Martin Gibson
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 12:18 PM

Are the songs of Lennon-McCartney the folk music of England?

I've stressed this before. Songs like Obla-Dee and Yellow Submarine will be learned by children decades from now.


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 12:21 PM

No way will such songs become the ''folk music of England'' because pleasant though they are, these songs have no meaning or story to tell.


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: Peter T.
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 12:23 PM

Phooey. Mozart wrote lots of crap, still doesn't affect the good things he wrote. Anyway, Mozart was Mozart, they were Lennon/McCartney -- different stuff, different impact. I had a good friend in England who was famous for his interpretations of Schubert Lieder -- his two favourite singers? Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau and Janis Joplin. He thought they were peerless interpreters of their chosen music.

yours,

Peter T.


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: Peter T.
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 12:25 PM

Oh yes, children on playgrounds in fifty years time will be singing Child ballads, just like they do now.

yours,

Peter T.


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: GUEST,James
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 12:39 PM

I think it Lennon Macartney could become folk or trad. Look at Stephen Foster..his songs are now part of the heritage of American music and are stll widely sung and played. I think there are certainly some lennon Macartney songs that will reach that stature.


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: Kim C
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 12:41 PM

I wish I could write crap like that too.


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 12:48 PM

The two of them started out as collaborators, and obviously developed a joint approach to songwriting, but by the time they had become famous, almost every one of "their" songs was really the composition of one or the other. Early on, they had decided to maintain the "Lennon-McCartney" songwriting identity as a business decision to split the royalties equally, even as they were beginning to work more and more separately at creating songs.

A number of their early hits, written as they were just achieving fame in the UK and before breaking out in the states and going worldwide, feature two distinct parts -- e.g. a verse by Paul and a bridge by John. As time went on, though, they wrote more and more separately.

Just being members of the same performing unit, of coure, assured that there would be some continuing mutual influence upon each other. Certainly, their work right after the breakup showed each one's individual charactersitics more blatently than they had appeared back when they were Beatles.


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: GUEST,Nigel Parsons (at work)
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 01:02 PM

Guest: "these songs have no meaning or story to tell. "
Eleaonor Rigby is quite telling on the failing church attendances seen in the UK these days!

Nigel


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: Raggytash
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 01:03 PM

You mean to say the Frog song/chorus is profound ?


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: Ebbie
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 01:04 PM

Ye gods. I have obviously missed the phenom of the century. Would someone please post the most profound of their lyrics?


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: GUEST,Lilo Lil
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 01:15 PM

Not trying to tell you anything...except to point out that one bad song doth not a crap heap maketh.

And don't forget George's influence.collaborating with Ravi Shankar decades before World Music became the darling of the open eared/minded.Ok many were doing similar, but he had the name to make it more accessible for the average man in the street, who had never boarded a plane in his life.

Also I would like to add that NOBODY could be a better Ivor the Engine than Ringo....how diverse their many talents.

And not a dead hedgehog in sight......aaaah that's what you're missing eh, roadkill?


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: GUEST,James
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 01:21 PM

I think some folks are missing the point..no, they are not profound, but they have certainly written some fabulous pop songs. Often the songs had a message or conveyed some universal truth that moved many people. Is it great art ? Who cares..it is great pop. I do not understand what people are so anti-pop, there have been many wonderful songwriters in this genre. Let us just give credit where credit is due...we ALL shine on.


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: Kim C
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 01:28 PM

The most profound? Try "In My Life."


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: Wesley S
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 01:42 PM

Actually I write "crap" like that all the time. But in order to avoid the twin pitfalls of fame and fortune I keep them under wraps so I may enjoy a more sedate life. Beside I would hate for schoolchildren to be singing my songs many years from now. What would you say if they sang out of tune ??


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 02:20 PM

It's all a matter of opinion, isn't it. Mine is, these guys were the Baby Boom generation's answer to the Gershwin brothers. And as far as McCartney writing better songs than Lennon? C'mon. How can


Someone's knockin' at the door

Someone's ringin' the bell

Open the door

Let 'em in

compare to


I read the news today Oh boy

Four thousand holes in Blackburn Lancashire

And though the holes were rather small

They had to count them all

Lennon's songs were more introspective, dark and brooding, with more substance to them; McCartney's were more along the lines of fluff.

But it's all a matter of opinion.


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: Amos
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 02:25 PM

What would you say if I sang out of tune?
Would you try to run over my toes?
Give me a word and I'll show what I feel,
And I'll try not to bloody your nose!
Oooh, I get by with a little help from my,
By with a little help from my,
By with a little help from my Friennnnnnds!!


Seriously, why carp at a legacy that was predominantly one of beauty (light or dark) and humor (ditto)? The world is better for their music, no mistake.


A


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 02:27 PM

I don't think it is JUST a matter of opinion unless one is ignorant of the basic skills required to compose songs. These men had a very high level of skill..no doubt abiut it. As for them being the Gershwins of the baby boom...that is really quite a compliment.


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: Ed.
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 02:32 PM

Hear, hear Amos!

Peter T,

I'll try and post a comprehensive list in aswer to your original question, but it might take me a day or two.

Ebbie,

As GUEST: James says, the lyrics aren't particularly profound, but they weren't meant to be. These are pop songs. And yes, you "have obviously missed the phenom [sic] of the century"


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: Pseudolus
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 02:33 PM

Yeah! And what profound lyrics did Mozart ever write? LOL!!!

Uhhhh, ok, I'll get back to work now........

Frank


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: Ebbie
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 02:46 PM

Ed, John Hardly did say: They are the most astounding writing duo of our (or perhaps any other) time. Prolific and profound. I didn't come up with 'profound' by myself.

But go ahead, enjoy. The fact remains that I was not 14 years old when they burst upon the scene.

In My Life
There are places I'll remember
All my life though some have changed
Some forever not for better
Some have gone and some remain
All these places have their moments
With lovers and friends I still can recall
Some are dead and some are living
In my life I've loved them all

But of all these friends and lovers
There is no one compares with you
And these memories lose their meaning
When I think of love as something new
Though I know I'll never lose affection
For people and things that went before
I know I'll often stop and think about them
In my life I love you more


Yes, nice writing, and good sentiment. But in what way does it surpass any one of stacks and stacks of other pieces of good writing?


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: Ed.
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 02:59 PM

It had a better tune...


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: Kim C
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 03:03 PM

The reason that particular song outshines any others, for me, is that it MEANS SOMETHING TO ME. As I get older, and friends and family members leave this earth, it just becomes more dear. There isn't another song on the planet that speaks to me in quite the same way.

Your mileage may vary.


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: GUEST,Martin Gibson
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 03:08 PM

Yep

Lennon-McCarney is the future of folk music in England!

You say it's not folk music because it doesn't tell a story? Wimoweh tells a story? "London Bridges Falling Down" tells more of a story than "We All Live a Yellow Submarine?"

Total Denial, Guest.

The Beatles songs will live for generations, just like folk music is supposed to.


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: fat B****rd
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 03:15 PM

Hello, Peter T.To get back to your question. Read The late Ian Macdonalds "Revolution In The Head" apart from being a fasconiating book it should inform you which songs The Beatles gave to who(m).


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: mg
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 04:03 PM

songs don't have to tell a story. Doo dah doo dah..does that tell a story that anyone knows? Darling Clementine?   I think most songs do not tell a story but they might show a slice of someone's life...in media res as it were. mg


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: GUEST,Truthtroller
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 04:03 PM

You Brits can't protect your own folk music now !!!.. so don't go relying on Lennon/McCartney to pull you out of the hole.

   T.T.


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: GUEST,GUEST:Richard Patrick
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 04:09 PM

Peter T asks whether children in school will be singing Child ballads in fifty years time. Well they certainly are singing some of them now. Versions of the Cruel Mother are found in London as skipping songs, and Lord Randall is painfully pervasive.


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Subject: Lyr Add: WHAT A WONDERFUL WORLD (G Weiss/B Thiele)
From: Ebbie
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 04:15 PM

WHAT A WONDERFUL WORLD
(George Weiss / Bob Thiele)

I see trees of green, red roses too
I see them bloom for me and you
And I think to myself, what a wonderful world

I see skies of blue and clouds of white
The bright blessed day, the dark sacred night
And I think to myself, what a wonderful world

The colours of the rainbow, so pretty in the sky
Are also on the faces of people going by
I see friends shakin' hands, sayin' "How do you do?"
They're really saying "I love you"

I hear babies cryin', I watch them grow
They'll learn much more than I'll ever know
And I think to myself, what a wonderful world
Yes, I think to myself, what a wonderful world

Or how about: (Third verse of John O'Dreams)

Both man and master in the night are one
All things are equal when the day is done
The prince and plowman, the slave and free man,
All take their comfort in old John o'dreams.

At the end of the day there are many, many songs.


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 04:21 PM

"Come on, it ain't Mozart is it? And they did split up 32 years ago!

That's a really strange sentence, when you think about it. For some reason the fact that one lot of Music is as much as 32 years old is supposed to somehow mean that it is less worthy of respect than more recent music. And yet in the first half of the sentence the fact that another lot of music is 200 years ago is a reason to see it as especially worthy of respect.

If it was "it is only 32 years since they split up" there could be some logic in it - ie, they haven't been around long enough for us to be sure they can transcend their generation.

No it ain't Mozart, and Mozart ain't the Beatles. I'm grateful for both of them.


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: Ed.
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 04:28 PM

Ebbie,

Maybe I'm dim, but I'm not sure why you posted 'What a Wonderful World' It's a fine song, for sure, but what has it got to do with this thread?

I don't think that anyone has said that the Beatles were the only people to write great pop songs, or that pop songs are the best musical expression going.

I love the Beatles, but I'm curious to know why you (seemingly) dislike them so much?

Ed


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: Phot
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 04:39 PM

Sorry all, but I've never liked the Beatles/ Lennon, Mcartney, in the slightest. If they haden't done it first, someone else would, and they would get all the praise.
Also, Ringo didn't do Ivor the engine, he did Thomas the tank engine!(Yes I'm a train spotter!)

Wassail!

Chris


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: John Hardly
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 04:56 PM

Their music is profound because its effect, as Art, is profound. As Art it transcended, inspired, emoted as much or more to humanity than most that came before and most, I imagine, that will follow.


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: Ebbie
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 05:08 PM

Sorry, Ed. They set my teeth on edge. I wish I'd keep silent about it, because it doesn't affect anything in the slightest.

So, I've reformed, and with you I'll be singin':

I wanna hol' your han'!!!
She love you, ya, ya, ya
!!!


On the other hand, I have no problem with individual members of the group- I can listen to any one of them. Just don't present them to me with that bouncy, driving beat with the teenyboppers screaming in the forefront.


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 05:09 PM

If you examine the words of many songs without the music they become trite. That's the power of the medium. What Lennon & MacCartney did changed the world ... in 1965. The times are past, the sentiments lost, and what they did will undoubtedly be dismissed as crap by those who cannot understand the revolultion that they, in part, fired. Write to your favourite musician and ask if they think the L/M contribution is crap.

p.s. I don't know the words to any Mozart songs. Did he write "Amadeus, Amadeus"?


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: John Hardly
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 05:16 PM

I guess what I'm trying to say above is that...

...you can pick apart some art, criticize it for its simplicity, lack of sophistication -- even its lack of apparent skill, and be utterly missing the point of Art.

By the critical standard of skill and complexity, Thomas Kincaid ("Painter of Vomitous Light") slays Rothko hands down...

..."what the...why, they's just blobs o' red canvas"

...and Mondrian? and Pollack? fageddaboudit (and faggedabout my spelling -- art school was too long ago).

Why does a piece by Hamada, or Shaner, or Leach transcend commercial Pfalzcraft (I mean, besides not having a silly name). They're both just pots -- both serving a function. Arguably the Pfzcrp serves the purpose better -- more uniform, stacks better, lids fit better.

And if complwxity is the true mark of art, then why didn't we reach Roccocco and quit?

Is there a heirarchy of evaluation of human emotion wherefrom a "serious" artist cannot stray?

Was Thurber a "serious" writer?


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 05:17 PM

Oob la di etc, is already a folk tune, nicked by Lennon/McCarney


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: GUEST,Martin Gibson
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 05:39 PM

Yes, it is.

Funny how when the Beatles came out, they all but stifled the Great Folk Scare.

Now their music is as much of the English speaking world's musical fabric.


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: harvey andrews
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 05:42 PM

They were the best of their time in their field. Dylan was the best of the same time in a different field. Ochs was the best of the same time in another field. If you stand in that time and take in the view you'll see many more fields each blessed with a best.
"Oh what a time it was..a time of innocence"
Just listen to that view!


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 06:33 PM

"If they haden't done it first, someone else would"

Nobody else would have written the same songs. That is what is special about any kind of creation. When anyone writes a song they know that there is something new in the world which wasn't there before.

If you mean being a big enormous hit and having girls screaming and being a cultural phenomenon and all that, probably true enough. But that doesn't matter as much as the songs.


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: Peter T.
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 06:46 PM

"I Don't Want To See You Again" sung by Peter and Gordon -- a truly dreadful Lennon/McCartney tune.

yours,

Peter T.


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: Raggytash
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 07:53 PM

I stand accused by many of you as saying Lennon and Mc Cartney were crap, you obviously haven't read my contribution in your haste to condemn me and support your "heroes".
I actually wrote that much of what they wrote, I and many others considered crap, it was and remains meaningless tosh. I do not deny that along the way they wrote some beautiful songs with memorable melodies, but a good deal was hyped up merely because they were the Beatles, if you or I had attempted to get the stuff published by record companies we would have been laughed out of the building.
If someone could enlighten me as to any decent material McCartney has created since he went solo I would be very interested to hear about it as I have spent the last couple of hours talking to friends in my local watering hole and none of us can think of anything.
Again please read before you put me in front of your firing squad.


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 08:07 PM

"What a Wonderful World" has impeccable folk music credentials, having been recorded by Tony McManus on his first CD (in DADGAD no less).

I can remember playing "Here Comes the Sun" as a guitar instrumental in folk clubs in the early 70's.

Just because I could ...


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 08:14 PM

Someone who is close enough to a songwriter to tell them when a song needs changing, can be as much a co-writer as if they actually wrote alternate verses. What Paul McCartney has been up against is, not having that; or rather not having John Lenon to do that for him.


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: Peace
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 08:29 PM

Even the Babe didn't bat a thousand. I don't really care if songs I like are profound or not. "Wild Mountain Thyme" (on occasion Time) is beautiful. The Irish song "Maggie" can get a tear outta me because it grabs my heart. The Italian "Io Vagabondo" is touching. "Baby Blue" by Badfinger just plain rocks. Dylan's "Hard Rain" is deeply moving. "I Want to Hold Your Hand" speaks to the desire every teenager has--OK, you know what I mean, it ain't the hand but it IS. "Farewell to Nova Scotia" works. None of these are profound. Now, much of the poetry of Ezra Pound is profound. Problem is, I don't understand it. The songs above I understand. Nothing profound about "Maybelline" or "Roll Over Beethoven", but they are damn good. And sometime give a listen to The Royal Scots Dragoon Guards rendition of "Amazing Grace" or Kenny Rogers' "Twenty Years Ago." They are all lots of things, but I don't see that profound has to enter into it.


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: GUEST,Lilo Lil
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 08:29 PM

Aha.....so if we don't defend The Frog Song, it will automatically mean the first part of your observation was also correct?????????

No way Hosea! I know you only referred to the majority of their output as crap, people disagreeing with you does not mean they misread you?

Did.t you even raise a smile at Parky, Ali and Kenny Lynch on the album cover...ahhhh those heady days of 12 inches.


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: Peace
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 09:04 PM

Lilo Lil: You're on the wrong thread for that talk of "heady days and 12 inches."


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 09:08 PM

Ebbie - like I said, it's all a matter of opinion. Keep on keepin' on.

Raggytash - "Maybe I'm Amazed" by Sir Paul was, in my opinion the best thing he'd done since leaving The Beatles. After that, it was all downhill........


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: Peace
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 12:47 AM

"Mull of Kintyre" was great, too.


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: Gurney
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 12:58 AM

I have a collection of most of the Beatles music, and a fair amount of Mozart, too, all collected after I was already into 'folk.' My opinion, and we are all talking about our opinions, is that they were among the very best songwriters ever in their genre. Their arrangements in particular were remarkable, and I've never heard anyone, up to and including the NY Philharmonic, who did one of their pieces better, or with more impact, anyway.

As to whether they will become folk, I've been at a festival where in one of the sessions aftertime, someone got out the Beatles songbook and started playing the tunes (Not especially easy) and all 40 or so people there knew the words. About 1999.
If you can access the book, try it. It was a great session.


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: Jim McLean
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 04:33 AM

Brucie, take a pair of scissors, some Scotch tape and a book of traditional Scottish songs and you can 'compose' Mull of Kintyre. I suggest you start with 'Dream Angus'.
Jim


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: Raggytash
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 04:50 AM

Lilo Lil,
Your response is exactly what I was trying to avoid, you do not have to "defend the Frog song" I am merely putting forward the thesis that if you or I had walked into a publishing studio with that as material we would have not got past the Commissar never mind gained access to a recording studio with animated video facilities.
What I am saying that although Lennon/MCCartney produced some great work they also produced a good deal of c**p, if as a fan of the Beatles you find this hard or impossible to accept
I am sorry if I upset you.
With the exception of Guest who puts forward "Maybe I'm Amazed" I have still to get a list of decent material produced by McCartney since the split, I refer Brucie to Jim McClean contribution


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 06:21 AM

"...take a pair of scissors, some Scotch tape and a book of traditional Scottish songs and you can 'compose' Mull of Kintyre"

I'd doubt if that's actually true - but if it was, what's wrong with that? Some idea that if music and songs aren't off-this-planet original they are useless, and that for a new song to grow out of old songs means it's worth nothing?

I'd be inclined to say that that kind of thinking isn't what folk music is about. Or indeed, music in general.

.....

As for the Frog Song:

"Win or lose, sink or swim,
One thing is certain we'll never give in,
Side by side, hand in hand, we all stand together..."

Nothing wrong with that. It's not high art or portentious, but it's true, thank God.


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: sweetfire
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 06:32 AM

Yellow Submarine was cool! When i was about 10 that is.


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: Raggytash
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 07:16 AM

Sweetfire darling, Yellow Submarine was released about 1996/7 you DAD may have been about 10 at the time


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: Peter T.
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 08:10 AM

Any chance of getting back to the original question? i.e. Lennon/McCartney songs that they gave to other people to sing first?

yours,

Peter T.


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: GUEST,Ringo Starr
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 08:14 AM

How come no one has mentioned me?


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: GUEST,Pete Best
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 08:27 AM

Or me?


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: Jim McLean
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 08:34 AM

McGrath, new songs growing from old songs, usually over a period of time, is the folk process. Cherry picking melodic parts from trad songs to make highly commercial material with lyrics of dubious merit is not.
Jim


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: Alice
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 09:02 AM

The BEATLES - four geniuses who happened to find each other and collaborate with a synergy that brought out the best in them. Sad that it could not go on for years longer.


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: GUEST,Lilo Lil
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 09:07 AM

Raggytash........I too was not born in the sixties, and do not consider them as my "heroes", I just found your statement that "a good deal" of their output was crap, a tad over the top.

And can not see the relevance between Macca's solo efforts and the Beatles' repertoire.....why would/should they be of similar quality/importance,call it what you will.

And the music business is a money making business, as are many others, The Frog Song made them money..........love it or hate it, those croaky little chaps made the books balance.


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 10:28 AM

I was 10 or 11 in 1962 when "Please Please Me" came out. I can remember my feelings at the time very well. Bear in mind that all the "popular" music we heard was on one Radio channel, the BBC Light Programme,and if you wanted non-stop pop you had to tune in to Radio Luxembourg (which came on the air at 7pm from Luxembourg in Europe, and depended a lot on the weather and time of year for signal quality.) There was a great deal of American pop music at the time: Elvis was just about respectable enough for the Beeb, you could hear a lot of US pop on AFN (American Forces' Network, from Germany I think), British "rockers" like Tommy Steele modelled themselves on Americans, and all those musicals -- South Pacicific, Oklahoma, Guys And Dolls -- had hit the cinemas recently.

I'd felt for a couple of years that it was time we got some proper home-grown music, and the Beatles were like a breath of fresh air. Of course, I know now that they modelled their early stuff on Buddy Holly's style, but funnily enough I don't actually remember Buddy. Anyway, it wasn't Art or Music with captial letters -- it was just fab!

Steve


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: Peace
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 10:50 AM

Thanks, Jim I'll do that. I still like the song, though. Thought the production was great.


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: Fossil
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 11:52 AM

Well, I WAS not only born well before the sixties, but was at college when the Flower Power/Summer of Love Revolution happened, with soundtrack by the Fabs and a whole lot of other very good bands who were all feeding off each other and driving each other to new creative heights. A good time to have been young, alive and a musician. Probably the most innovative period in popular music that there has ever been. Certainly, however good some songwriting has been since, there has been nothing to touch the sheer creativity of the time. And the Beatles were, quite simply, the "toppermost of the poppermost", the ones who took the lead, style-setters, gurus, Yoko and all. And when you look at the synthesised crap that passes for popular music these days (don't get me started.....). If it wasn't for new artistes like Thea Gilmore, I'd be in despair, I really would. And yes, I teach my guitar student kids "Ob-la-Di" and "Yellow Submarine", they love it! Of course the music will last, it's that good.


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: Chief Chaos
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 12:46 PM

They have already transcended their generation. I was born in '66 and I am a great fan. My son, who was born in '89 and my daughter born in '92 steal my Beatles CDs all the time. My son is learning to play guitar (left-handed) so that he can play their songs for himself.

They were instrumental in launching many other acts through Apple Studios.

They inspired other youngsters to come forward with their music (even if they deny this it is quite apparent from their songs who they took the lead from.) They (including George and Ringo)have all continued to write and bring forth new music, art, film and other projects (right up to the point of their deaths for John and George).

Can we say the same about Mozart?


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 02:26 PM

Can we say the same about Mozart

Of course we can.


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: GUEST,Lilo Lil
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 02:29 PM

"Oh No We Can't".................sorry panto season getting to me.


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 02:30 PM

So subjective I can't believe I'm typing this. The music world is as populated with solo-Mac songs as it is with Beatle-Mac stuff:
Waterfalls
Put it there
Ebony & Ivory (song of the year 1981-ish)
Band on the Run
Mrs Vanderbilt
No more lonely nights
Live and Let Die, et cetera

And I believe the argument should be tempered with "I think these songs are crap/great/indifferent"


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: Ed.
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 04:14 PM

In answer to Peter's original question, I think that this is a full list of Lennon/McCartney songs that were given to other artists (but I'm happy to be corrected). The dates are the initial release years by the artist concerned. I've not included songs such as 'I Call Your Name' or 'I Wanna Be Your Man' which were initially recorded by someone else, but later done by The Beatles themselves. Hope that this is of interest.

Ed

The Applejacks
Like Dreamers Do (1964)

Badfinger
Come and Get It (1969)

Chris Barber Band
Catcall (1967) Instrumental. This tune is known as 'Catswalk' in most Beatle biographies

Cilla Black
Love Of The Loved (1963)
It's For You (1964)
Step Inside Love (1968)

Black Dyke Mills Band
Thingumybob (1968) Instrumental

The Fourmost
Hello Little Girl (1963)
I'm In Love (1963)

Mary Hopkin
Goodbye (1969)

Billy J Kramer and the Dakotas
I'll Be On My Way (1963)
Bad To Me (1963)
I'll Keep You Satisfied (1963)
From A Window (1964)

Peter and Gordon
World Without Love (1964)
Nobody I Know (1964)
I Don't Want To See You Again (1964)
Woman (1966)

PJ Proby
That Means A Lot (1965)

Tommy Quickly
Tip Of My Tongue (1963)

The Strangers with Mike Shannon
One And One Is Two (1964)


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 04:34 PM

Excellent Ed. Do you know if Harrison wrote 'Badge' recorded by Cream?


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: Ed.
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 04:52 PM

TheBigPinkLad,

To quote from George Harrion's autobiography (I Me Mine):

"I co-wrote Badge with Eric Clapton"

and further on:

"Later Ringo came in - he was absolutely plastered - and we were up to the lines:

I told you not to drive around in the dark
I told you...


- And Ringo said:

...about the swans that live in the park

It's a bit silly, but that's what happened, folks."


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: Peter T.
Date: 11 Dec 03 - 08:18 AM

Thanks, Ed, you are a scholar and a gentleman. Did Lennon and McCartney really write "Nobody I Know"?

(Interesting they wrote something for Chris Barber).

yours,

Peter T.


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 11 Dec 03 - 11:12 AM

When I trod the boards with Stonnall Players a few years back, I discovered that Madam Producer, Sheila Pritchard, had been tutored in chemistry at Uni by Chris Barber's mum, in the 60s. Isn't it a small world?


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: chris nightbird childs
Date: 04 Nov 04 - 03:34 AM

I believe that the best Beatles discs were "Revolver" and "the Beatles" (umm... White Album, that is.) "SGt. Pepper" happens to be one of their worst, save for Lennon's "A Day in the Life" (McCartney ONLY helped on the mid-section!), and Harrison's "Within You, Without You" (no one else did a bleedin' thing on that!)

: )~


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 04 Nov 04 - 11:52 PM

Isn't the fact that we're still discussing The Beatles in the big shiny 21st century testimony to the effect they had on music and popular culture? If they were truly crap, we'd all have forgotten about them...In fact, i would never have heard of them at all, being so youthfull and all :0)


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: mousethief
Date: 05 Nov 04 - 01:41 AM

"Maybe I'm Amazed" by Sir Paul was, in my opinion the best thing he'd done since leaving The Beatles. After that, it was all downhill........

Except he did that before leaving the Beatles.

What's wrong with Uncle Albert/Admiral Halsey? Venus and Mars/Rock Show? Band on the Run?

I'll get me coat....


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: Peace
Date: 05 Nov 04 - 01:48 AM

Loved the rawness of their earlier work. I was quite uh, how does one say this, uh, ya know, changing spark plugs near Pluto when I heard SPLHCB for the first time. If I recall, it was the first record to cost over a million dollars. I ate at LEAST ten dozen Sara Lee cakes listening to that album.

My favourites? Many and varied. Too many to list.


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: Ooh-Aah2
Date: 05 Nov 04 - 02:16 AM

I was born more than a year after they broke up, and for me they will always be the best band ever. No band around now comes within lightyears.
          Trenchantly,   Ooh-Aah.


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: chris nightbird childs
Date: 05 Nov 04 - 02:26 AM

They were the ONLY band that influenced me when I first started out about ten years ago. I will spend my lifetime trying to write and sing as well as them...


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: GUEST,keberoxu
Date: 24 Oct 18 - 06:34 PM

Fifty Years, this year,
since the animated film Yellow Submarine was released.


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: GUEST,DTM
Date: 24 Oct 18 - 07:50 PM

Congrats to Ed for actually answering the original poster's question.
Can I add "I Call Your Name" - Billy J Kramer (although it was probably taken from the Beatles EP)


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: GUEST,Eric
Date: 24 Oct 18 - 11:33 PM

For the record, it was not a British invasion, it was a Beatles invasion.


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: Johnny J
Date: 25 Oct 18 - 03:50 AM

It'll soon be time for the Christmas shopping....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsC4BHPuKE8


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: GUEST,DTM
Date: 25 Oct 18 - 09:26 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsC4BHPuKE8

Ah, they don't write 'em like they used to.


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: Johnny J
Date: 25 Oct 18 - 11:39 AM

Maybe just as well.

Just realised I forgot to create the link.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsC4BHPuKE8


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Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: BobKnight
Date: 25 Oct 18 - 05:39 PM

Everybody seems to have forgotten, "Do You Want To Know A Secret," Billy J. Kramer and the Dakotas. Great pop song.


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