Subject: Music: Cetacean Beatle Fad Discovered! From: Amos Date: 21 Mar 01 - 10:45 PM Rocking and Rolling down to Sydney ... the Great Whale Way: The following is excerpted from The New Scientist. Culture shock They don't have orchestras or art galleries, tools or technology, but whales still have a rich and varied cultural life, says Stephanie Pain THEY came. They sang. They conquered. When the Beatles first set foot in the US, they were a phenomenon. When they sang, the girls screamed. American bands didn't wait to wonder why. They just did their best to sound like the Fab Four. Thirty years on, a new pop phenomenon burst onto the scene--this time in Australia. In the winter of '96, a foreign group turned up singing a bizarre new song. This time the singers weren't four likely lads from Liverpool but a band of humpback whales that had accidentally strayed into the wrong ocean. |
Subject: RE: Music: Cetacean Beatle Fad Discovered! From: Crazy Eddie Date: 21 Mar 01 - 11:45 PM So the famous quote "All Music is folk music, I never heard no horse sing no song" no longer applies. We now have TWO types of music: Folk Music, & Whale music. Of course I've wondered about that quote for some time. While I've never heard a horse singing, I've heard larks, thrushes & blackbirds produce sounds that sure sounded like music to me. So that's decided then, THREE types of music, Folk Music, Whale Music, & Bird music. Of course there may be others, such as choirs of Angels, or Faerie Music, but I haven't heard them myself. |
Subject: RE: Music: Cetacean Beatle Fad Discovered! From: wysiwyg Date: 21 Mar 01 - 11:55 PM Bet they have a heckuva time using those keyboards to post their lyrics for the DT! For that they have to call in a mudcat. I think I know now why there are so many song requests in the tech help forum lately. Whales and dolphins are having too much fun to read THIS! Or-- could it be.... yes.... it would be just like them.... to start a Mudcat takeover, in the help forum! Where it is accepted that people do not always give their names. Ah yes, so cetaceous of them.... they tried Guesting anonymously in the regular forum but we met that challenge head on! Don't they know this place is big enough for everyone? But.... Amos, [gasp] are you saying they actually don't like folk music?? Is.... [shudder] is Mbo a plant??? Too awful to think about. Never mind! ~S~ |
Subject: RE: Music: Cetacean Beatle Fad Discovered! From: rangeroger Date: 22 Mar 01 - 12:23 AM I have a videotape of a concert done in Vancouver BC at the aquarium there. The orchestra played Alan Hovanes' "And God Created The Great Whales",while the captive killer whales went through routines to the music. The scenes of the rehersals were particularly fascinating,as recordings of Humpback songs were played to go with the music.These killer whales had been captve their entire life and had never heard the songs of the humpbacks.Their first reaction was a complete cessation of activity and what appeared to be attentive listening.They then burst into frantic activity, splashing the orchestra members, and paying no attention to the signals of their trainers. They eventually settled down and the show went on. rr |
Subject: RE: Music: Cetacean Beatle Fad Discovered! From: Amos Date: 22 Mar 01 - 12:28 AM See? Just like those groovy lassies screaming for Paul..... only a lower key and usng different names.... (bwoooooooooomp!!!) Griiiiiiisssss! Griiiiiiiiiiiisssss!! Weeeeeee waaant Griiiiiiis!!!! (broooooomph!)" Sounds kinda like Spaw on a good night. A |
Subject: RE: Music: Cetacean Beatle Fad Discovered! From: Whistle Stop Date: 22 Mar 01 - 08:18 AM Amos, thanks for posting this -- I had heard about this too, and think it's fascinating. I'm not an animal behaviorist, and I'm sure that people who study these things have a much more nuanced interpretation of what "culture" is in the animal kingdon (then again, they probably all disagree, just like we all disagree about "what is folk?"). But whatever you call it, this sure sounds to me like sophisticated social interaction and learned behavior. I like to think that our similarities to whales and other creatures are greater than our differences. And music is in the ear of the beholder. |
Subject: RE: Music: Cetacean Beatle Fad Discovered! From: catspaw49 Date: 22 Mar 01 - 08:37 AM I agree Whistle.......and its more interesting then the other thread with the moose marking the Ford. Is there something in the air around here lately?....... Aside from the passing gas? Spaw |
Subject: RE: Music: Cetacean Beatle Fad Discovered! From: Crazy Eddie Date: 22 Mar 01 - 08:43 AM WYSIWYG, I think we have solved a great mystery, and at the same time uncovered a conspiracy. I think the whales & dolphins ARE the Mudcat Inner Clique! And I'll tell you something else I've noticed! Joe Offer, & Flipper: you never see them at the same time do you? Make you think............:o)
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Subject: RE: Music: Cetacean Beatle Fad Discovered! From: Wolfgang Date: 22 Mar 01 - 09:00 AM It is worth to follow Amos' link. Especially the part when it comes to explanations was interesting for me. Of course it depends completely on the definition of 'culture' whether whales have it or not. In the bad old times, even several subgroups of humans didn't have culture according to a very europeocentric definition. Ants, for instance, have social behaviour according to one definition but not according to another. Learning of the type described in the article above has been shown in several species of birds and of mammals, it would be a wonder if it did not occur in whales. What intrigues me most is that this behaviour has so far to the best of my knowledge only be demonstrated in animals that can dream, i.e. that have REM-sleep. And there are a lot of interesting speculations about the function of dream for learning and storing new behaviors. I see a speculative connection there which I have not seen in print yet. But I doubt that I am the only one who sees it. A scientific sensation for me would be the demonstration of culture in the above sense in a species without REM-sleep. This would be a finding which would necessitate a major rethinking about learning and storage. Wolfgang |
Subject: RE: Music: Cetacean Beatle Fad Discovered! From: wysiwyg Date: 22 Mar 01 - 09:15 AM And Joe does seem to come on the hop when there's thread trouble-- you know, like bad clickies, posts to transfer, or an unharvested song. One could wonder if he's picked up an underwater signal horn going off. But I do have a problem seeing cetaceans as cliquey-- they are so darn curious and welcoming, see. Hmmm.... maybe a left-fin conspiracy. We can only guess at this point. Ever since I first saw this thread posted I have been trying to come up with the thing I saw on the teevee about a group that had decided to do a concert on the beach for the passing whales. I can't recall where this was (west coast, maybe northern part) or what channel it was, or who the group was-- but they thought singing to the whales would attract them, and sure enough, it seemed it did. A pod came by and stayed to listen and as I recall there were recordings picked up from them singing back. I do not however reecall any screaming or frantic blowing from the offshore audience, so I dunno about this groupie thing. I always associate really serious groupies with blowjobs, but that's just me. And it's hard to see how cetaceans could relate to "I Wanna Hold Your Hand." On the other fin, "Roll Over Beethoven," surely-- and "Fool on the Hill" MOST definitely. ~S~ |
Subject: RE: Music: Cetacean Beatle Fad Discovered! From: LR Mole Date: 22 Mar 01 - 09:34 AM Oh, all right. Bob Marley. I said it and I'm glad. |
Subject: RE: Music: Cetacean Beatle Fad Discovered! From: Whistle Stop Date: 22 Mar 01 - 01:54 PM Susan, I think I saw this, too, but I don't remember any more details than you do. I do know that Paul Winter has been involved in things like this over the years, both in playing to whales/dolphins/wolves/etc., and incorporating their songs into his music. Some of it was a little too bland/New Agey for my tastes, but some was kind of interesting. |
Subject: RE: Music: Cetacean Beatle Fad Discovered! From: Mrrzy Date: 22 Mar 01 - 02:01 PM Can you have communication without culture? For instance, dolphins can be taught to run a maze that other dolphins can't solve immediately. Put a taught dolphin in the tank with a novice, and the novice can then run the maze, first time. So they DO have communication. And it takes several to mate with one female because some have to hold her in position (gang rape as a way of procreation?) But they don't have artifacts - do they have lifestyles? This is a fun thread! |
Subject: RE: Music: Cetacean Beatle Fad Discovered! From: wysiwyg Date: 22 Mar 01 - 03:07 PM WS, I dunno any more, either, it just is not coming to mind. Mrrzy, I think the dolphins probably have a sort of Borsht-belt style humor about all the funny things we humans do when we get into the water with them. I think they laugh for hours. ~S~ |
Subject: RE: Music: Cetacean Beatle Fad Discovered! From: JenEllen Date: 22 Mar 01 - 04:26 PM Fascinating link! I'd be hesitant to apply the 'c-word' as well, that would imply that they have greater gifts than a mere land-lubber can fathom. The little we DO know is scary enough. The Orcas in our islands do the same sort of thing. Someone will come up with a new song, and it will be the rage for the summer. I wonder how much of it is passing along a song, and how much is singing that annoying jingle so it leaves your head. My bologna has a first name.... The closest approximation I've seen to culture (and this is of course coloured by my own wicked bent) is the cetacean appreciation of humor. I was called once to observe some dolphins at an aquarium. The trainers had noticed that the entire pod was at first, ignoring commands, then later doing totally inappropriate behavior in response to commands. We ran throught the gamut of tests, and physically the dolphins were fine. A few weeks later I recieved a call to come down again. The trainers had figured out what was wrong with them lot of them. They were housed in this Mickey-Mouse shaped tank, with the 'ears' as holding tanks, and the 'head' as the performing aquarium. The other ear of the tank held the Beluga whales. The parrots of the sea, unbelieveably adept at mimicry. The Belugas were watching the action from their portion of the tank, and then would either chirrup the "STOP" command, or eventually, a completely different command that they had aquired. The dolphins just finally quit doing anything. (go-stay-fetch) The thought of it about made me pee my pants, honestly, I had to leave the building.... Imagining, "Pssst, Bill, Watch THIS!!" (rolling beluga laughter) We poor scientific sods can theorize about it until we turn blue, but until we can spend all our time underwater, we'll just never know. Jen |
Subject: RE: Music: Cetacean Beatle Fad Discovered! From: mousethief Date: 22 Mar 01 - 04:45 PM Okay, here's a first shot at translating some of the lyrics. I'm not fluent in Humpback like Mr. Spock, so I may make a few mistakes. ----
I give her all my krill ----
Close your eyes and I'll whistle
All my whale-songs ----
Let me sing my song, cos I'm going to
Singing is easy with eyes closed ----
I was alone, I took a swim, Got to learn new songs in my life! ---- That should be enough for now, to give you some idea of what those whales are doing with our favorite Beatles classics. Alex |
Subject: RE: Music: Cetacean Beatle Fad Discovered! From: wysiwyg Date: 22 Mar 01 - 06:28 PM LOL! Jen thread drift (aside)... Hardi heard of a parrot that had learned dog torture. It would call the dog, then when the dog came, BAD DOG!!! Or it would command lie DOWN and then SIT till the dog lost it. Boredom, whaddaya gonna do? ~S~ |
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