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BS: 30th anniversary, murder of John Lennon

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Richie Black (misused acct, bad email) 08 Dec 10 - 08:34 AM
GUEST,Patsy 08 Dec 10 - 08:42 AM
katlaughing 08 Dec 10 - 11:22 AM
alanabit 08 Dec 10 - 02:41 PM
Becca72 08 Dec 10 - 04:10 PM
Van 08 Dec 10 - 06:43 PM
J-boy 08 Dec 10 - 06:52 PM
Bobert 08 Dec 10 - 08:37 PM
GUEST,Shimrod 09 Dec 10 - 04:35 AM
GUEST,Patsy 09 Dec 10 - 05:44 AM
Black belt caterpillar wrestler 09 Dec 10 - 09:05 AM
bubblyrat 09 Dec 10 - 09:08 AM
Richie Black (misused acct, bad email) 09 Dec 10 - 10:20 AM
MGM·Lion 09 Dec 10 - 10:31 AM
katlaughing 09 Dec 10 - 11:07 AM
Desert Dancer 09 Dec 10 - 12:21 PM
GUEST,Neil D 09 Dec 10 - 01:29 PM
Desert Dancer 09 Dec 10 - 07:42 PM
josepp 09 Dec 10 - 08:17 PM
Wesley S 09 Dec 10 - 08:43 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 09 Dec 10 - 10:19 PM
J-boy 10 Dec 10 - 12:20 AM
GUEST,Patsy 10 Dec 10 - 03:32 AM
GUEST,The Beatles Were The Greatest Rock Band Ever 19 Dec 10 - 04:25 AM
GUEST 19 Dec 10 - 04:26 AM
GUEST,The Beatles Were The Greatest Rock Band Ever 19 Dec 10 - 04:29 AM
GUEST,The Beatles Were The Greatest Rock Band ever 19 Dec 10 - 04:30 AM
GUEST,The Beatles Were The Greatest Rock Band Ever 19 Dec 10 - 04:33 AM
GUEST,The Beatles Were The Greatest Rock Band Ever 19 Dec 10 - 04:37 AM
GUEST,The Beatles Were The Greatest Rock Band Ever 19 Dec 10 - 04:50 AM
GUEST,The Beatles Were The Greatest Rock Band Ever 19 Dec 10 - 04:53 AM
alanabit 19 Dec 10 - 06:41 AM

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Subject: BS: 30th anniversary, murder of John Lennon
From: Richie Black (misused acct, bad email)
Date: 08 Dec 10 - 08:34 AM

Hard to believe it was 30 years ago today. In the city which produced the Beatles, the focus of the memorials will be the Peace and Harmony monument unveiled earlier this year in memory of Lennon, who died when he was only 40.

Fans will light candles and sing songs and remember the global icon whose life was abruptly ended by a lone gunman's bullet outside a luxury apartment block in New York on December 8, 1980.

A charity concert will take place on Thursday at Liverpool's Echo Arena, called "Lennon Remembered -- The 9 Faces of John", which will feature the Liverpudlian's friends and former bandmates performing his most famous songs.

The acts will include his first band The Quarrymen.


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Subject: RE: BS: 30th anniversary, murder of John Lennon
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 08 Dec 10 - 08:42 AM

The anniversary of it falls on the day after my birthday, so it always follows with much sadness as much today as the day it happened. Some may try but he just can't be imitated.


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Subject: RE: BS: 30th anniversary, murder of John Lennon
From: katlaughing
Date: 08 Dec 10 - 11:22 AM

And, my friend and I shall call one another, today, as we have every year since it happened, no matter how far apart, when we spent the day together in tears and a bottle or two of wine. Good thing our boss understood.

Still sadly missed...Imagine...


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Subject: RE: BS: 30th anniversary, murder of John Lennon
From: alanabit
Date: 08 Dec 10 - 02:41 PM

I recall walking around in a daze after I had heard about it. I do not think he would have gone on to make any more great records, but I would have wished him a happy and contented life and the chance to see his children grow up.
It is hard to make any sense of his death even now. Any of us could have the misfortune to be killed by someone, who is mentally ill. It is unlikely, but possible. There was just no precedent to prepare us for the loss of John Lennon. Above all I miss his voice - the sound of him speaking as much as the sound of him singing.


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Subject: RE: BS: 30th anniversary, murder of John Lennon
From: Becca72
Date: 08 Dec 10 - 04:10 PM

There are three musicians we have lost that still really hurt for me: Freddy Mercury, Warren Zevon and John Lennon.


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Subject: RE: BS: 30th anniversary, murder of John Lennon
From: Van
Date: 08 Dec 10 - 06:43 PM

Watching John Lennon Night on Tv. Sad to think of such a loss.


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Subject: RE: BS: 30th anniversary, murder of John Lennon
From: J-boy
Date: 08 Dec 10 - 06:52 PM

So senseless. Why would anyone want to murder a Beatle? Miss you John.


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Subject: RE: BS: 30th anniversary, murder of John Lennon
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Dec 10 - 08:37 PM

John was always the Beatles to me with the rest of them, Paul included, as band mates...

Lotta my friends were all pissed off when John hooked up with Yoko... Man, I thought she was the shits... I mean, a real cool lady... She pushed John in a good direction... They had it goin'...

When we look back at all the folks who were really out there preaching love, preaching peace... I mean, the folks whose voices we so desperately need now there really ain't too many left...

I mean, we can think how we individually miss John but the saddest part of it all is that the planet so needs John's voice right now... The voices of those who really understood things and could articulate them and inspire people are mostly gone... Taken one by one with bullets...

We do miss you, John...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: 30th anniversary, murder of John Lennon
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 04:35 AM

"Why would anyone want to murder a Beatle?"

Why, indeed!

Probably because the mass media is deranged. It elevates, undoubtedly talented (and profitable), individuals to the status of demi-gods and the resulting irrational hysteria attracts deranged people; in this case a homicidal deranged person.


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Subject: RE: BS: 30th anniversary, murder of John Lennon
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 05:44 AM

Silly question but I wonder what he would have been doing now. Even if he and Yoko had split for a while I think they would have got back together and started a project perhaps a humanitarian one?


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Subject: RE: BS: 30th anniversary, murder of John Lennon
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 09:05 AM

My late father was at art college with, and kept in touch with, Bruce Sabine who became one of John Lennon's teachers.
Apparently he had a tendency to make erroneous decisions. Nothing drastic, just things like mooring under a railway bridge on a canal holiday and being woken by a tremendous clatter in the middle of the night.
He claimed his most famously wrong statement was:- "Put that guitar down Lennon, you'll never make any money with that".


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Subject: RE: BS: 30th anniversary, murder of John Lennon
From: bubblyrat
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 09:08 AM

Just to balance this hysterical equation ; I never liked him very much,and always thought of him as being arrogant and uncouth,despite his undoubted musical talent & ability,which I admired. However, as a human being, I did not & could not rate him very highly at all. Anyone who rejects the award of an MBE from Her Majesty The Queen, announces that they are more popular than Jesus Christ, shacks up with a dubious Oriental older woman and then goes to live in the Murder Capital of the Western World ,does not deserve much sympathy; not from this patriot, anyway. What a waste of human life !!


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Subject: RE: BS: 30th anniversary, murder of John Lennon
From: Richie Black (misused acct, bad email)
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 10:20 AM

I won't disagree with you bubblyrat on that as you are entitled to your opinion. My favorite Beatle was George Harrison. He was a very talented musician and songwriter.

He was also the victim of an attack by someone suffering mental illness. Michael Abram, a heroin-addicted schizophrenic, broke into his house and stabbed him in the chest.

The last five years of his life were spent fighting lung cancer and a brain tumour.


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Subject: RE: BS: 30th anniversary, murder of John Lennon
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 10:31 AM

Just to remark that I have never met a teacher from Liverpool who did not lay claim to being the one who told John Lennon [only sometimes it was Paul McCartney] that the guitar was a nice hobby but with no financial future; I have also heard the remark attributed to John's Auntie Mimi...

A true piece of folklore. I wonder if anybody ever really said it; and if so, who; and to whom?

~Michael~


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Subject: RE: BS: 30th anniversary, murder of John Lennon
From: katlaughing
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 11:07 AM

It is not seemingly to join in a memorial just to piss on the departed.


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Subject: RE: BS: 30th anniversary, murder of John Lennon
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 12:21 PM

Some of the interesting reading/viewing available lately:

The Tea Maker, op-ed essay by Yoko Ono (The NY Times also had essays from Ray Davies, and others.)

John Lennon's Final Interview in Rolling Stone

Nowhere Boy, fictionalized movie about John as a teenager (my son and I enjoyed this)

Lennon Naked, BBC/WGBH Masterpiece production on John at the time that he met Yoko (fictionalized, available for viewing online until Dec. 21)

LENNONYC, PBS American Masters documentary about the New York City years (available for viewing online, presumably for a limited time)

~ Becky in Tucson


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Subject: RE: BS: 30th anniversary, murder of John Lennon
From: GUEST,Neil D
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 01:29 PM

I happened to be watching Monday Night Football with some friends when John Lennon was shot, so I learned of it from Howard Cosell of all people. Unlike Frank and Don who were like "Oh well, so sad, let's get on with the game, Howard was very upset. He wanted them to stop the game. I gained a new respect for Mr. Cosell after that. Lennon's death just devastated me. I was s child at the time of the Kennedys and King assassinations so I didn't really feel the pain so much. But when John Lennon was assassinated I was 23 and he was my biggest hero. A "Working Class Hero" was my anthem. This was an especially dark time for progressives, coming just one month after Reagan being elected.
   I agree with Katlaughing about the unseemliness of speaking ill of the dead in a place where people are memorializing him. It's boorish. And for the record NYC is not the murder capital of the Western World, not even of the Eastern seaboard. The asshole that murdered our beloved John was no New Yorker. He came from half way around the world to perform this cowardly, despicable act.


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Subject: RE: BS: 30th anniversary, murder of John Lennon
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 07:42 PM

Here's a remembrance of the Cosell announcement: Behind Cosell's Announcement of Lennon's Death (Fifth Down, the NY Times N.F.L. blog).


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Subject: RE: BS: 30th anniversary, murder of John Lennon
From: josepp
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 08:17 PM

I went to bed early that night as I had classes in the morning. I had my radio on as I used to sleep that way--with the radio on. And after a spate of songs, the DJ announced that Lennon had been shot outside his aprtment complex in New York but that he was alive and apparently talking. He said he'd keep us updated and then broke for some commercials. I figured Lennon must have been OK since he was still alive and talking. Then the commercials ended and the DJ came back on and said, "I'm afraid I have some really terrible, terrible news..." and I knew John was dead. The DJ read the wire verbatim and then said all upcoming programs that night were cancelled and they started playing Beatle and Lennon songs the rest of the night and into the morning with no commercials.

I didn't cry or anything but I was definitely shocked because, as tired as I was, I did not sleep a wink. I laid there listening to John's voice until my alarm clock went off. Nobody at the classes I went to said a word about it as though it hadn't happened. When I got home, my dad said, "Somebody killed John Lennon. Isn't that terrible?" His voice was irate and I was surprised because he was from the older generation that had so looked down on the Beatles in the 60s. Although my dad was never anti-Beatle, I don't remember him being particularly pro-Beatle either.   He always seemed aambivalent and so it was odd to hear the anger and shock in his voice concerning John's death. That's how much impact the man had on global culture just through the writing of some songs. Incredible really.

As for Lennon's character, I didn't know the man. I've heard as many good things about him as bad and you can talk that way about anybody so I won't judge him and I certainly won't attack him which I think is classless. My early childhood can be told in Beatle songs. They were such an important part of my upbringing that any of them dying truly hurts. I was just as saddened by George's death. George was a class act.

It was magical to be a kid growing up during Beatlemania and I feel very fortunate that I wasn't too old to appreciate it. For me, it wasn't endless hype that drove you crazy as I probably would have thought of it in my older, jaded years. For me, the Beatle years are magical. "Penny Lane" still reminds me was Christmas 1967 when my oldest sister got the single for a present from my parents and she played it all day.

As for Yoko, lots of people attack her and not without good reason but I'll say one thing for her: She has kept the Beatle legend intact and will not allow anyone to mess with it. Paul actually called her once and wanted her to agree to separate the Lennon-McCartney songs into just Lennon or just McCartney if the other had no real role in writing that particular song. Yoko said absolutely not. There is no reason for her to do this except that she simply will not let anyone, no matter who it is, screw around with the Beatle legend. She has remained true to John and always seems to be trying to do right by him and his memory and I thank her for that.


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Subject: RE: BS: 30th anniversary, murder of John Lennon
From: Wesley S
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 08:43 PM

"It is not seemingly to join in a memorial just to piss on the departed."

True Kat - but some people do it just to attract attention. You would think that instead they would try to accomplish something of value.

John Lennon was one of the best songwriters of that century and everyone knows that. We could use a lot more of those. His songs turned the world on it's ear. And popular music will never be the same.


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Subject: RE: BS: 30th anniversary, murder of John Lennon
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 10:19 PM

Back in Dec. 80, a sound engineer friend of mine(Steve) was going to New York, and was going to see Lennon, while there. By request, he was going to get four autographed 'Double Fantasy' s, so I could give them out to some friends and a brother(rock and roll Hall of Famer) for Christmas. He got the four, but by the time he returned to L.A., Lennon had been shot. As a result, he only gave me one, which I still have, to this day.

I remember that day, when out of nowhere, the radios, were all playing old Beatles, and Lennon tunes..I had not known about John's death, yet. When the announcers kept alluding to 'a tribute to..' I still wasn't aware of why..Then when the news came on....

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: 30th anniversary, murder of John Lennon
From: J-boy
Date: 10 Dec 10 - 12:20 AM

I think the words "arrogant" and "uncouth" might fit someone on this thread quite well.


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Subject: RE: BS: 30th anniversary, murder of John Lennon
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 10 Dec 10 - 03:32 AM

The irony is I was doing the same thing while listening about the death of Elvis and John Lennon both times ironing babygros. I swore after John Lennon's death that I would never iron another babygro again! Which is just as well because my kids had grown out of the baby stage by then.

Yes John was arrogant sometimes abrasive and cheeky but he was honest enough to say that he was as human as the next man warts and all. Which it is a pity that we will never see the older man that he would have grown into.

If you want to chuck mud at least he didn't marry 13 year old cousins hey.


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Subject: RE: BS: 30th anniversary, murder of John Lennon
From: GUEST,The Beatles Were The Greatest Rock Band Ever
Date: 19 Dec 10 - 04:25 AM

I have been a huge highly impressed Beatles fan(specifically a big John and Paul fan) since I was 9 and I started to collect their albums,I got my first Beatles book for 11th birthday and I had every album by age 13.


I was 15 and a half when this horrible insane,incomprehensible tragedy happened.I have never had ESP experiences before that I can recall.But the creepiest and strangest thing happened to me the night he was tragically,cruelly,killed for no rational reason,but I didn't know it yet,I didn't find out until the next morning when I heard my parents watching Good Morning America and the DJ Murray The K who had been a big Beatles fan and friend of theirs was on talking about it almost crying with David Hartman.


I had enough problems I was going through and now I was devastated to learn this! But the actual night it happened about an hour before John was shot,I took a pice of paper and wrote the time which was around 9 somthing PM and the date Monday December 8 1980 and I placed it inside the Beatles book I got for my 11th birthday 4 and half years before,with some flowers which I had never done before in all of these years I owned it.


Also between 10:30 to 11 PM I was listening to The Beatles Magical Mystery Tour album,which wasn't unusual but for some unknown reason I kept playing John's song I Am The Walrus over and over again,John was shot during this time period! After I learned what happened I looked in my Beatles book at where I placed the paper with the time and date and the flowers,and it was right near John's face,and it was a group picture of The Beatles in India!


Somehow because I always loved them so much and still do,I was subconsciously intuned to something bad happening to John and was saying good-bye.


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Subject: RE: BS: 30th anniversary, murder of John Lennon
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Dec 10 - 04:26 AM

This is what I posted on a Beatles fan site about the recent great PBS American Masters show LENNONYC which has Double Fantasy producer Jack Douglas,John's good friend for 9 years rock phographer Bob Gruen,Elton John,who says John was one of the most kind,funniest people he ever met,and he said the man was incredible and he still treasures every moment he spent with him,the musicians from John & Yoko's early 70's band Elephants Memory were interviewd,and other music engineers,a rock DJ Dennis Elsas,Yoko,May Pang,etc and they all liked him and knew him pretty well.


That is totally different from what I saw as the real John,(it only made me feel even sadder that he was taken away and so horribly! I felt this great documetary(have you seen it yet?) showed what I always understod,and what award winning music journalist and former editor of The Melody Maker for 20 years,and close friend of John's for 18 years from 1962-1980,Ray Coleman so empathetically wrote about John in his great thorough John biography,Lennon.John was emotionally scarred and messed up for most of his life and in a lot of pain because of the traumas he had in his childhood and teens,but I'm sure he was not a bad person for the most part,I think he was really a sensitive good person underneath all along,just mentally sick for most of his life,but he was definitely much more emotionally together and sweet at the end sadly.And that is who the *real* john really always was under all of the emotional pain and anger.

I love John *more* as a person(and artist) after seeing this show. I knew for years already about how he cheated on Yoko when she was right there,and yes that was terrible and it's not an excuse but this is an explaination which even Yoko herslef said she understood,he was in a bad emotional state and very drunk,and as Jack Douglas said(and Eliot Mintz says this in Lennon by Ray Coleman) that John and alcohol were a very bad combination he never could handle it well and it had a really bad effect on him,thank God he eventually cleaned up and got off of it during the last 5 years of his life.And he had a good conscious,he felt very guilty about the things he did including this which was made very clear in this program.At least he did have a concious and regretted and felt sorry for the wrong things he did and actually worked on himself and changed for the better,that is a lot more than a lot of men(and some women do),many wife beaters and rapists never feel any remorse and never try to work on themseles and change!

Paul McCartney for the most part isn't a bastard,but a sweet person,but after he and beautiful British red haired actress Jane Asher were lovers for five years from April 1963 when she was only 17 and a virgin,and Paul was 21( and far from a virgin since he lost his virginity at only age 15 in 1957 which was not common then with a girl who was bigger and older than him) and she and Paul lived together in their own house from 1966-Spring 1968 when after they were engaged to be married for 7 months,Jane came home unexpectedly early from touring with her theatre company,she found Paul in their bed with another woman and she left Paul for good!

George cheated on Pattie including with Ringo's first wife Maureen,and John,George, and Ringo all also cheated on their first wives with tons of young women groupies,many who were teenage girls,when they were touring from 1963-1966 and this was a very common part of the rock and roll life style especially in the 1960's.

John said in his last interviews that he regretted being violent getting into fights with men and hitting women,and said that is why he felt so strongly about being peaceful and promoting peace.Yoko changed him for the better,because of their love,and great relationship and her feminism,John went into scream therapy with psychologist Dr.Arthur Janov and dealt with his traumas for the first time,and he made a brilliant album out of it,his first solo album,John Lennon Plastic Ono Band and he became a feminist,and a nurturing caring husband and father to Yoko and his son Sean.If you listen to the radio interviews he did hours before it happened,he sounded much more together,and happy and not angry and bitter any more.He talked about how he regretted not spending enough time with his first son Julian and that he was in his 20's like most men too involed with their careers to be a real involed father.He said that he regretted this and that he and Julian would have a relationship in the future.


And it was also very brave and great of John to co-write and sing on The Dick Cavet Show and in the Madison Square Garden concerts both in 1972 the powerful and sadly still true,feminist song,Woman Is The Ni***r of The World,and it was banned off of the radio,and on The Dick Cavet show,shown in LENNONYC he sweetly and clearly explained what this song was really about and why he and Yoko wrote it and performed it.Also he and Yoko played the August 1972 Madison Square Garden concert to help raise money for retarded children and aldults.

Just one year before John was cruelly,brutally,tragically shot and killed for no rational reason,he donated 1,000 $ (which in 1979 was a lot of money) to NYC cops for bullet proof vests.


As a poster on Paul McCartney.com said in discussing this great show,that Tom Hayden pointed out how John and Yoko worked hard on behalf of many different social injustices.And John's great performance of his song,John Sinclair helped get him out of jail 48 hours later!

And as many problems John had,he(and Paul McCartney) gave millions of people happiness with their musical brilliance,and John never would have shot and killed anyone!


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Subject: RE: BS: 30th anniversary, murder of John Lennon
From: GUEST,The Beatles Were The Greatest Rock Band Ever
Date: 19 Dec 10 - 04:29 AM

Out of the 5 Mike Douglas shows that John and Yoko co-hosted for a week that was taped in January 1972 and aired in Febuary,a young criminal lawyer Rena Uviller(she went on to become a Supreme Court Judge) who worked with juveniles, and she,Mike Douglas,John and Yoko were discussing the then very recent women's liberation movement. George Carlin was on too.

Rena said,she agrees with Yoko,that the idea of Women's lib is to liberate all of us,and she said ,I mean we could talk hours on the way men really suffer under the sex role definitions.Yoko agreed with what she said too. Rena said that men don't really realize they have only to gain from Women's Lib,and that she thinks that maybe with a little more propaganda we can convince them.


John then said,yeah there is a lot to gain from it,just the fact that you can relax and not have to play that male role,he said we can do that,and he said that I can be weak,( but notice how then in a male dominated gender divided,gender stereotyped,sexist society,and even unfortunately still now in a lot of ways,the "female" role was defined as the weak one,and the male role as the strong one) I don't have to protect her all the time and play you know that super hero,I don't have to play that,she allows me to be weak sometimes and for me to cry,and for her to be the strong one,and for me to be the weak one. John then said,and it really is a great relief,after 28 years of trying to be tough,you know trying to show them,I don't give a da*n and I'm this and I'm that,to be able to relax.and just be able to say,OK I'm no tough guy forget it.


Rena then said,I think in some funny way,I think girls even as children,have a greater lattitude because a little girl can be sort of frilly and feminine or she can be a tomboy and it's acceptable,but a little boy if he's not tossing that football,there's a lot of pressure on him.John said,there's a lot of pressure,not to show emotion,and he said that there was a lot of pressure on me not to be an artist,to be a chemist and he said he discussed this on another Mike Douglas episode.

Rena said that unfortunately some of the leaders in the Women's Liberation movement fall victim to being spokesmen,for Women's Lib, and yet at least in public personality they seem to really have a certain amount of contempt for the hair curled housewife and there is a kind of sneering contempt,and she said I think it's a measure of their own lack of liberation.And Yoko said it's snobbery,and Rena said yeah,they really don't like other women,but I'm sympathetic,and Mike Douglas then said a sexist woman-hating statement,saying,well women don't like other women period.Rena said,no see that's very unliberated and Yoko said, in response to what Mike Douglas said,that's not true,that's not true.And John said,you see they are brought up to compete with men.

Yoko said that even though in Japan they say they don't have much of a woman problem and women already had some liberation,there is still a long way to go that she really agrees with Rena that so many female liberation movement people basically hate women,and we have to first start to understand women and love them whether they are housewives or not,and she said that snobbery is very bad and we have to somehow find out a way to co-existing with men,and she asked Rena don't you think so and she said most definitely. George Carlin said,that actually many successful women are acting out male roles just like a lot of blacks think they escaped are acting out white roles.John also said that he thinks that women have to try twice as hard as to make it as men,and he said you know they have to be on their toes much more than a man.


On another Mike Douglas episode from the same week,former actress and acclaimed film maker Barbara Loden was on and Yoko had requested her as a guest.John asked her ,Did you have any problems working with the men,you know like giving them instructions and things like that and Barbara said,I did, but I think it was because I was afraid that they would not accept what I said,and I wasn't quite that authoritative in my own self.John said it's certainly a brave thing to do,and Yoko said it is.

Mike Douglas asked Yoko if John's attitude had changed much towards her since The Female Liberation Movement,and at first Yoko says John's attitude from the beginning was the same,and that they met on that level.John then says,twice, I was a male chauvinist and Yoko says,yes he was a male chauvinist but,and then John says,Can I say how you taught me,and Yoko says yes.John says,How I did it in my head was,would I ask Paul or George,or would I treat them the way I would treat a woman? John then said,it's a very simple thing maybe it's fetch that or do that ,and I started thinking if I said that to them,they'd say come on get it yourself,and if you put your wife or your girl friend in the position of your best friend,and say now would I say that to him,then you know when you're treading on some delicate feelings.


Mike Douglas said years later that after this week of John and Yoko co-hosting his show,many young people who had never watched his show before,(and his main audience was middle America and people older than their 20's and even mostly their 30's) told him they loved the show,and that it was great and his ratings went up high for those shows.Even if John didn't always live up to his feminist ideals and beliefs in his personal life,(although he did with Yoko because of her and this why and how he emotionally evolved into a caring,nurturing,house husband and father to Yoko and Sean),just the fact that he spoke out as a man in support of the feminist movement on a popular TV show back in early 1972 when most of the sexist male dominated woman-hating society looked down at it and considered it crazy which in some ways it's still unfortunately wrongly misunderstood(and it's really the male dominated,sexist,woman-hating society that has always been so wrong and crazy!),and the fact that John was (and still is) greatly admired and influential to many young people male and female,he did *a lot* to legitimize it and show it was rational,reasonable,needed and right!



A few months later he was performing Woman Is The Ni**er Of The World on The Dick Cavett Show and then months after that live in Madison Square Garden.In his very last radio interview done by Dave Shollin etc from RKO Radio just hours before he was tragically shot and killed, John said I'm more feminist now than I was when I sang Woman Is The N**ger,I was intelectually feminist then but now I feel as though at least I've put not my own money,but my body where my mouth is and I'm living up to my own preachings as it were.


And Yoko keeps promoting John's great music and art not for money,(she doesn't need the money anyway,John was a millionaire and in addition she made her own money as she still does from her work as an artist)she does this because she still loves him deeply,and she wants him to be remembered for the truly great music artist and art artist he was who was killed for no rational reason at only age 40!


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Subject: RE: BS: 30th anniversary, murder of John Lennon
From: GUEST,The Beatles Were The Greatest Rock Band ever
Date: 19 Dec 10 - 04:30 AM

Mike Douglas also said to John and Yoko,You're both so different,you had such different childhoods. John said,it's incredible isn't it?Yoko said,Yes!Mike asked,What do you think has attracted you to each other?Yoko said,We're very similar.John then said,She came from a Japanese upper-middle class family.Her parents were bankers and all that jazz,very straight.He said they were trying to get her off with an ambassador when she was 18.You know,now is the time you marry the ambassador and we get all settled.I come from a an upper-working class family in Liverpool,the other end of the world. John then said,we met but our minds are so similar,our ideas are so similar.It was incredible that we could be so alike from different enviornments,and I don't know what it is,but we're very similar in our heads.And we look alike too!


Mike also asked John about his painful childhood,and how his father left him when he was 5,and John said how he only came back into his life when he was successful and famous(20 years later!),and John said he knew that I was living all those years in the same house with my auntie,but he never visited him.He said when he came back into his life all those years later,he looked after his father for the same amount of time he looked after him,about 4 years.


He also talked about how his beloved mother Julia,who encouraged his music by teaching him to play the banjo,got hit and killed by a car driven by an off duty drunk cop when John was only 17 and just getting to have a realtionship with her after she had given him away to be raised by her older sister Mimi when he was 5.

And John also said,And in spite of all that,I still don't have a hate-the-pigs attitude or hate-cops attitude.He then said, I think everybody's human you know,but it was very hard for me at that time,and I really had a chip on my shoulder,and it still comes out now and then,because it's a strange life to lead .He then said,But in general ah,I've got my own family now ...I got Yoko and she made up for all that pain.

John's psychologist Dr. Arthur Janov told Mojo Magazine in 2000( parts of this interview is on a great UK John Lennon fan site,You Are The Plastic Ono Band) that John had as much pain as he had ever seen in his life,and he was a psychologist for at least 18 years when John and Yoko saw him in 1970! He said John was a very dedicated patient. He also said that John left therapy too early though and that they opened him up,but didn't get a chance to put him back together again and Dr.Janov told John he need to finish the therapy,he said because of the immigration services and he thought Nixon was after him,he said we have to get out of the country.John asked if he could send a therapist to Mexico with him,and Dr.Janov told him we can't do that because they had too many patients to take care of,and he said they cut the therapy off just as it started really,and we were just getting going.


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Subject: RE: BS: 30th anniversary, murder of John Lennon
From: GUEST,The Beatles Were The Greatest Rock Band Ever
Date: 19 Dec 10 - 04:33 AM

Also,

Cynthia Lennon has said over the years that she still loves John and always will,and she understood his traumas in his childhood and teens was why he was the way he was and she has been married at least 3 other times.John also obviously treated her well too,not just badly and she said they had a lot of good times together too.And John didn't really do to Julian the same thing that his father did to him,John at least talked to Julian,saw him sometimes after he and Cynthia got divorced,and he sent Julian Christmas,and birthday cards and presents and postcards,John's father didn't do any of those things he totally neglected and ignored John for 20 years and didn't show up into his life until John was almost 25 and now very successful,rich and famous.


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Subject: RE: BS: 30th anniversary, murder of John Lennon
From: GUEST,The Beatles Were The Greatest Rock Band Ever
Date: 19 Dec 10 - 04:37 AM

I once spoke to a radio DJ by accident,because he was now a manager of a CD store and I wanted to order some imported solo John Lennon and Paul McCartney albums.And we got to talking and I said are you a Beatles fan,and he said yeah I'm a Beatles fan.And he told me that he was the one who went up with fellow DJ Helen Leicht (who is a huge Beatles fan and she used to host a great 2 hour Breakfast With The Beatles show for many years from 10am-12pm every Sunday on a local radio station.)to do an extensive interview with Yoko at the Dakota in 1983 that aired on two different Sundays in parts 1 and 2.


I loved Yoko ever since I heard this interview,she's very intelligent and a kind person for the most part,and I love that she was a feminist who turned John into one too. Anyway I said to him,you went in John's home? And he said yep,I said how could you go in there wasn't it painful? And he said it was tough ,and I said were there pictures of John all over the place and he said yes.I asked him what was Yoko like and he said she's a very nice lady.


And John himself was always proud of Yoko's art and music and he loved it! He said in his very last interviews that he had 2 partners in his life,Paul McCartney and Yoko Ono and he said that's a pretty good record and that he did pretty well as talent scout.Rock photographer Bob Gruen says in John Lennon The New York Years,the fact that Yoko already had her own one-person show when she met John was an incredible accomplishment.He also said,to be included in a show of many would have been impressive for a woman at the time;for a woman to have her own show was almost unheard of.


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Subject: RE: BS: 30th anniversary, murder of John Lennon
From: GUEST,The Beatles Were The Greatest Rock Band Ever
Date: 19 Dec 10 - 04:50 AM

And bubblyrat,(and it's really fitting that you have the word rat in your posting name!)it's really ludicrious and cruel of you to blame the victim(who was an extremely talented song writer,great singer with a beautiful unique great strong singing voice,and as Eric Clapton said in an online 1977 interview,Eric Clapton In His Own Words,he said that there was always this guitar game between John and George,partly because John was a prett good guitar player himself, and he was also a loving friend,and 40 year old father of a 5 year old and 17 year old sons) of an insane,cruel,tragic murder for living in a popular well loved city,that John loved living in too!

And John *never* said that The Beatles were better than Jesus,he was actually only pointing out that more young people were big Beatles fans,more than Jesus fans,he wasn't saying he thought that was right though.


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Subject: RE: BS: 30th anniversary, murder of John Lennon
From: GUEST,The Beatles Were The Greatest Rock Band Ever
Date: 19 Dec 10 - 04:53 AM

I just noticed I made a typing mistake. I meant that Eric Clapton said John was pretty good guitar player himself.


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Subject: RE: BS: 30th anniversary, murder of John Lennon
From: alanabit
Date: 19 Dec 10 - 06:41 AM

Er Guest, are you sure you are the only poster here who has read the books?


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