BS: stay afloat while others don't

Subject: extended family woes
From: keberoxu
Date: 09 Apr 17 - 04:53 PM

I'm scared that no one else will understand what this post/thread is about. This is stuff I was brought up not to talk about.

Earlier BS threads from me have been open about my history of treatment for depression, at least I thought I was being open about it. And how it is still a struggle. I'm still under a doctor's supervision and I remain on meds, I really need them. I know that after trying to get off of them under the doctor's supervision. That was really frightening, to find out how chemical my condition is, and how much I need those meds. I was also raised, after all, not to ask for help.

Keeping my distance from my family of origin is essential for my well-being. I have done this fairly completely. There are still financial and legal, what shall I call them, relationships, which it was best not to alter at the time. So I have an attorney and a representative.
I'm holding my own, fairly stable, although I am far from secure, and I remain vigilant about myself.

The thing on my mind now, is that the people I was raised with, the ones I keep a distance from, are going from bad to worse. And I can't help having, inside, an emotional and psychic response, even as I stay as separate as possible.

This sounds so heartless: but I dare not hop out of my own little boat and go after the people in question who are out of control. I don't dare. I know too well that they are not interested in getting the kind of help that I got twenty years ago when I was in pain myself. I am manoeuvering my own boat as well as I do today, because I got help for myself instead of running to the dysfunctional family bosom.

Now there is a blood relative operatically dropping hints about not being able to live with it any more. And another blood relative using drugs, being abusive domestically, and being enabled and protected all to heck -- De-Nial River flows right through that living room.

Some fifteen years ago I broke my silence and raised my voice about the spouse-hitting, and it certainly did set the cat amongst the pigeons. Maybe things got better for a while. Maybe things are not exactly as they were fifteen years ago when I spoke out. But I said my piece. Now, tough as it is, I have to keep myself sane and well, and not get dragged down in the family maelstrom.

Thanks everyone for listening.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Senoufou
Date: 09 Apr 17 - 05:25 PM

I am so sorry keberoxu that you've had such tough times. But I admire your courage, as you obviously sorted yourself out sensibly with medication and by distancing yourself from various toxic contacts.

The people about whom you're concerned are presumably adults, and should be left to find their own solutions (or not). You can't be responsible for their lifestyles or their lack of motivation to change.
Not only will you never manage to change them unless they themselves are willing, you risk going backwards with your own progress, which will do nobody any good. Going 'no contact' sounds to me to be the healthy way for you to deal with what's going on with them.

Your thread title says it all, and in my view you're quite right. Don't sink your own little boat trying to pull unwilling folk out of the water!

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: ripov
Date: 09 Apr 17 - 08:27 PM

Listening and - as far as possible - understanding.
As Senoufou says, the first step is accepting the problem exists. While those round you aren't aware that their problems are within themselves, nothing can help them, and if you try, you will wear yourself down, and achieve nothing; although it is hard to see those close to you hurting themslves. And by trying to discuss the problems you saw, you did the right thing.
Look after yourself first. Then, if circumstances change you may be in a position to offer help. But if you wear yourself out, you will be no use even to yourself.

Tony

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: ChanteyLass
Date: 09 Apr 17 - 10:47 PM

I echo the thoughts of the two previous posters.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mr Red
Date: 10 Apr 17 - 03:34 AM

vicarious pain.
Take heart that it is not as bad second hand.
If people ask for help, you will be there. If they don't, all you have is dropping hints about the possibility of solutions.

Don't put yourself between two fighting dogs. You will be preventing them from doing what they do.

As a very insightful GF once said to me "people gravitate towards the familiar" - (not the comfortable). They become inured to it. But you know that surely.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 10 Apr 17 - 03:44 AM

I am so sorry for your trials, and wish for you the strength to stay afloat and be a guide to those around you who are struggling and failing.
Prayers and best wishes (I wish I could offer more),
keith.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Rapparee
Date: 10 Apr 17 - 10:37 PM

You have your life and you deserve your life. It is yours. You do not owe anyone anything, and I suspect that you've paid dearly over the years. You say there is an attorney involved; let the attorney handle things. This may sound harsh, but it is probably the best way to go.

I've seen this all too often, and all I can tell you is that "the only way to the other side is through." And you can do it, because others have.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Senoufou
Date: 11 Apr 17 - 04:18 AM

I've been re-reading your post keberoxu, and just wanted to add the following:-

Regarding the relative who is 'operatically dropping hints that they can't live with it any more', if these are suicide threats, there are so many agencies they can approach for sympathetic help. Most folk know about the Samaritans for example. And if their despair is due to their situation, they can choose to make changes, move away, become more assertive, get counselling, any number of strategies with which to help themselves.

The person who is using drugs and being physically abusive is particularly someone from whom you need to stay far far away. Their domestic victim/s will probably come to the point where they take protective action. There are various aid agencies who can intervene in domestic violence, including the Police. And I have worked as a volunteer with criminal drug users/addicts, so can say from experience that drug use is extremely difficult to address, and needs the professionals. Even then, the success rates are poor. So you definitely shouldn't even attempt to step in there. Without 'seeing the light' for him/herself, the drug user will almost certainly continue to access drugs, and you will end up exhausted and frustrated.

I feel you've done very well so far in 'saving' yourself and it can't have been easy. It sounds to me as if you may have been a bit of a rescuer in the past, and felt such sympathy and compassion for all these dysfunctional folk that you got sucked in, like a boat in a whirlpool. Now you're paddling strongly in your little canoe towards tranquil waters, and I think you should continue going in that direction. Leave the pirate ship to navigate its own course. If it hits the rocks, it's got nothing to do with you.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: leeneia
Date: 11 Apr 17 - 12:20 PM

Next time the suicide threat come up, pass your relative a piece of paper with this on it:

National Suicide Prevention Lifeline
Call 1-800-273-8255
Available 24 hours everyday

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: leeneia
Date: 11 Apr 17 - 12:22 PM

And for domestic abuse:

call the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1−800−799−7233

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: olddude
Date: 11 Apr 17 - 06:38 PM

My dear friend. Please know lots of us care about you. You can talk about anything. I am so glad you have taken control of the struggle.
And if anyone lays a hand ever again on you let me know.. I will pay a visit they won't like

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 11 Apr 17 - 07:45 PM

Cannot tell you how much I needed each and every word from all of you. Heartfelt thanks.

A note to clarify. My post does indeed say spouse-hitting. I'm not the person who was hit, although it is true that the person doing the hitting is a blood relative.

Yes, my extended family has a living room large enough to accommodate De Nial River as well as more elephants than I can keep count of!
The drug user in question is using MDMA -- called something else, on the street -- that I know of, maybe other substances I don't know of.
The addiction elephant has been around for generations. The earliest alcoholic I know of was a direct ancestor who died, at an advanced age, in 1915. Those descendants of his, who were not alcoholics or users, were expected to enable, cover up, and protect everybody from the consequences of their behavior.   There is a self-identified alcoholic in my generation for example; last time I had a conversation with this latter person, we had a big fight and we will probably never speak again. I don't know of any of my relatives, with chemical dependencies, going for treatment or confronting the fact that they have an illness. The whole famn damily is just expected to be sick right along with them.

I am reminded of, I think it was the Nobel-winning Max Planck:

"Science progresses funeral by funeral."

That's true of some families as well. Sorry that is so down, but it's life, at the moment.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Senoufou
Date: 12 Apr 17 - 04:33 AM

MDMA is Ecstasy. I expect a user of a 'recreational drug' would be tempted to try other more addictive substances too, as this is the general pattern.
I've seen families with addictive traits 'in their genes'.
You have such a clear and sensible overview of your family and their problems keberoxu, that I reckon you will look after yourself and keep your distance.
Thinking of you.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Jack Campin
Date: 12 Apr 17 - 07:17 AM

MDMA (E, ecstasy) is pretty harmless for most people but the ones who get fucked up by it REALLY get fucked up. It seems to start delusional hatreds that can last a lifetime. Anyone who manages to combine a dependency on that stuff with being physically abusive is well beyond communicating with.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Senoufou
Date: 12 Apr 17 - 07:40 AM

Loads of clubbers take Ecstasy tablets and seem to come to no harm, as you say Jack. Among the drug users I spoke to, the substances which caused aggression were speed and cocaine. Opiates and cannabis gave rise to torpor and demotivation. Ecstasy merely induces euphoria,
although in some cases it can cause overheating of the body and resultant dangerous dehydration.
I believe some people (and as keberoxu says, it does seem to be genetic) are predisposed to addictions, whether it be alcohol, food, drugs or other substances. I seem to remember an article in which scientists claimed to have found such a gene among quite a significant proportion of people of Irish origin. But of course, social norms and cultures also play their part.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 12 Apr 17 - 01:43 PM

In my decades of seeking counseling, before my counselor changed professions, my anti-depressant meds came from my general practitioner, as they do now. My counselor did not write prescriptions, ever. But this person had to have a working acquaintance of some kind with prescribed substances.

My counselor had this to say about MDMA. Used heavily and consistently over time, it does something that the casual user would not expect. The casual user gets the temporary euphoria, resulting from MDMA engaging with a specific brain activity. But abuse/heavy-use of MDMA affects that very part of the brain in an adverse way, my counselor told me. That part of the brain, which has access to euphoria, becomes disabled instead. My counselor said: "It's a lifetime sentence of depression."

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Senoufou
Date: 12 Apr 17 - 02:22 PM

That's really interesting! It's as if repeated use of a certain part of the brain over time causes it to be disabled, and it can no longer produce pleasure.
It goes to show that most drug use isn't good for us if done to excess and for a long time.

The heroin addicts I worked with in prisons as a volunteer had managed to get 'clean' quite a few times, but nearly always slipped backwards and started injecting again. In those days (I don't know about now) they were prescribed Methadone or Subutex to help them, but it became obvious to me that their addictions were deep-seated and almost part of their psyche. They seemed unable to function once off the drugs, and only felt 'right' when back on the stuff.
That's why it's best to distance oneself from people who are addicted, and let them find their own path (or not). I gave up the voluntary work eventually as I could see no progress, and left them to the Prison Officers, Health Centre staff, Chaplains and doctors. Poor young lads, I fear they were really doomed.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: meself
Date: 12 Apr 17 - 02:52 PM

It seems that substance-abuse is often a response to underlying, and usually undiagnosed, psychological/emotional/mental issues (depression, ADHD, FAS, etc.); hence the term 'self-medicating'. Criminal behaviour is often linked as well. Most people behind bars were probably in desperate need of mental health therapy long before their legal troubles began. Knowing this doesn't necessarily make such people any easier to deal with, though ... you do have to keep yourself healthy before you can help anyone else - and that might necessitate avoiding the people you wish you could help.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Jeri
Date: 12 Apr 17 - 02:57 PM

Not the same thing, but...
I smoked for thirty-some years. I had to work at it to get addicted in the first place. I'd quit several times, but always though it was safe to just have one, and went back to consistent smoking. When I finally quit, I spent quite a bit of time thinking about it, and pushing the boundaries. What I learned was that after not smoking all night until about 10AM, when I had that first cigarette, I got a little rush of happiness, like a little bit of euphoria. I suspect any addiction is at least partly due to the serotonin that the drug provokes. When I finally quit, I was quite unhappy/slightly depressed for at least a year. People don't talk about this when it comes to smoking cessation, but maybe they should. It seems like if the "happy" brain chemicals are supplied from outside, the brain forgets how to provide them.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Senoufou
Date: 12 Apr 17 - 03:36 PM

I found that all the young men I saw in prison had been sent there for burglary, street theft, shop-lifting, receiving stolen goods etc all in order to fund their habits. Each one caused a mini-crime wave. And what was most disturbing was the amount of Class A drugs available 'inside'. What they told me was hair-raising. They kept some needles in the bottom of the Wing tea urn, where they were more or less sterilised(?) Methadone was passed in plastic drinking cups on dental floss thread out of the windows down to awaiting inmates in the cells below, after being regurgitated, as all issuing of medications was supervised. Heroin and many other drugs was brought in by helpful girlfriends inside their...er...bodies. The contortions that went on during visits was unbelievable, as the packages had to be brought forth then concealed in the prisoners' bottoms. I realised that the officers knew all this, but let it go on anyway. I felt deep pity for these lads, and if one is a 'rescuer' one can get far too concerned and it isn't a good idea.
I never could decide if the addicts were drawn into this life, or predisposed to it. (nature or nurture) Perhaps a bit of both? But the distress to their families was dreadful. I've sat in the Visits Waiting Area holding the hand of countless mums and girlfriends in awful distress at their predicament. I could walk away, and eventually did. But it was much harder for them, as it was their sons or partners.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 08 Feb 18 - 08:29 PM

well, I could of course open a fresh thread.
It's the same situation ongoing, though.

The blood relative who tends toward suicidal hints, is active again.
I avoid contact entirely with this person, when there is any business -- literally -- to be concluded between their legal situation and my legal situation, there is a combination of lawyers and financial officers who negotiate things. So it has been for more years than I can actually recall.

The caller ID on my telephone shows that this blood relative has got hold of my home phone number and is making repeated phone calls, with their name and phone number larger than life on the ID screen.

It was not I who gave the relative my phone number. It's a moot thing anyhow. What the relative does not take into account, is that after decades -- not merely years, but decades -- of harassment concerning my telephone, and after going through a knothole of responses of trying to evade it or prosecute it or whatever, I have learned ways of coping that I didn't have before.

Were I to change my phone number, that would signal to the relative making the calls that I acknowledge their crossing the line (my blood relatives know that I wish to be left alone). I don't see evidence of escalating behavior, nor of anyone having the aggression to really actually approach me. So from where I'm sitting, changing my phone number, or doing anything territorial to it, is actually counter-productive. Strange as this sounds, the sanest thing to do is to carry on and not give this person the satisfaction.

While this drama-loving relative is NOT the relative who has issues of substance abuse and of domestic violence/aggression, the fact remains that this relative is -- to use a metaphor for the family dysfunction -- the spider at the center of the spider-web. Loves to be a victim who makes victims of others. I truly know better than to fall for any of it this time.

That makes it a little simpler, but not easier, if this makes any sense. Thanks for listening.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Feb 18 - 08:45 PM

I can identify with what Jeri says about smoking. I didn't consciously work at it to get addicted; I kept going through the initial unpleasantness because smoking was the done thing in my circle. After that I smoked up to thirty a day of the strongest fags I could get my hands on. The first cigarette after several days' abstinence was the most blissful of all experiences. I had to keep stock still for two minutes to maximise the pleasure as I felt the stuff coursing through my veins from head to foot. In the end I just stopped (40 years ago on February 21 at five past eight in the evening). Not once since then has any tobacco-related product been anywhere near me. After stopping, I sighed non-stop for a month, felt miserable for another two and was sorely tempted many times for a year. The tightness in the chest and constant feeling of tension were terrible for several weeks. But I made it, in large part thanks to Mrs Steve getting pregnant with our first-born to be the month after I stopped. I still dream about smoking.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Feb 18 - 11:19 PM

You have 2 guilt free choices, action or inaction. To keep things simple;

You can do nothing with expectation of likely outcomes.
or
You can do something with unknown outcomes.

When a person is a real danger to others or themselves they can be committed in 20 minutes.
Signing off on modern electro shock therapy is a worthwhile reset gamble.

Get your own counsel on a choice of action.
Stay out of the line of fire if you choose inaction.

You are not obligated to choose any course of action.
Its easier to choose something only you know you can live with best.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Senoufou
Date: 09 Feb 18 - 04:04 AM

keberoxu, it sounds as if you have good strategies still in place for dealing with all of this, but my heart goes out to you as it must be depressing, stressful and exhausting.

It's good that you avoid all direct contact.

I can see your viewpoint about not changing your telephone number, but if this were me, I'd have to take some action about the unwanted calls, as it would make me very jumpy every time the phone rang.
Is there not a blocking system you could use? (We have one here in UK, with BT, and one can nominate numbers which are not acceptable. BT then blocks them for you) I understand you feel this would give them some satisfaction, but your peace of mind is important too.

You sound strong and sensible, and I admire you for it.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 03 Jun 18 - 02:17 PM

Greetings from Arizona. I don't live out West now, although this region was my home for over a decade. Have yet to break with my physician though, so I come back here at least annually.

This is a hot time to be here, but being off-season there are compensations. Fewer "snow-birds" and fewer tourists. Off-season prices as a result.

Refrigerated air is as frequent, in buildings out here, as the evaporative "swamp coolers" that simply use water without refrigeration. There are plenty of ways to take refuge from the high heat.
Cloudless sky today; the late Edward Abbey used to write of "deep sky" and I know what he meant by that. Today it is blue infinity.

Had to take a series of three plane flights to arrive here, and, shoot, I'm not as young as I used to be. In my youth it would have been an adventure and I would have been smug about it. Paying for that attitude now...getting the rental car at the airport yesterday, after finally getting my luggage, I felt ready to collapse. Good meal and decent sleep and now much improved.

The ticking time bomb that is my collective birth-family continues to tick away. The earlier reported telephone calls, they went on for the better part of one month, and then there were no more calls. A textbook case of don't-feed-the-troll, it seems.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Jun 18 - 02:35 PM

Arizona is lovely, and with all of the light, I suspect there is a photo response that helps with depression. So many SAD folks in my original part of the world (Puget Sound) compared to Arizona.

Any layovers in Dallas? Let me know and I'll run up and greet you at the TSA gate.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 03 Jun 18 - 03:28 PM

Aww, Acme, how sweet of you.
And such good news that you are now owned by three dogs again.

One branch of my family is from Washington State.
I don't know where in the state they lived,
before they moved to Whidbey Island.
I visited there once, when the older ones were still living.
Most likely wouldn't go back.

I'll be here for a good two weeks
and I wonder if Senator McCain will last that long.
He's putting up quite the fight, it must be said.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 05 Jun 18 - 02:13 PM

That is really sweet of you Acme
but my layover on the way back
-- since I'm flying on Delta airlines --
is Atlanta, not Dallas.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 15 Jun 18 - 06:31 PM

At this unusual resort,
there are social workers and psychotherapists on staff.
A social worker graciously agreed to a consult for me,
we spoke this morning; a positive, validating experience.

I went into detail, as much as I could,
about the relative who abuses - or could be past tense, abused - Ecstasy.

And the social worker, whose curriculum vitae includes treatment centers,
confirmed that Ecstasy affects that part of the brain
that contains L-dopamine.
And guess what … Ecstasy doesn't increase the L-dopamine, it depletes the L-dopamine.
The social worker went on to tell me --
this is how ignorant I am --
that the amount of L-dopamine a person has
is a limited amount to begin with.

So Ecstasy is capable of taking away the little that one has.

Subject: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: GUEST, member as guest, don't want to get sued
Date: 15 Jun 18 - 08:03 PM

Someone today on facebook posted a meme with remarks adding up to "get over yourself and get back on speaking terms with your family." If the person who posted that knew how long we struggled before we realized the only way to stay safe was to stop talking to a particularly toxic family member, they'd understand how naive that meme is.

We literally feared for our lives. He seems to be okay with the general public and he positively dotes on little old ladies (perhaps because they give him money and are classic enablers) but there are family members who know full well that if this sib had a gun handy during one of his outbursts he'd likely kill someone. Probably one of us. We struggled to keep him from claiming any handguns or other firearms from family estates. He is banned from most regional gambling casinos, and we hope his instability has him on a mental health watchlist. Any time there is a story of a stalker shooting in that part of the country I hold my breath until I learn it wasn't this brother. This time. Family members breathe easier when they learn that this brother hasn't been informed about a wedding or reunion.

I'm taking advantage of a mod's willingness to move this in order to post these remarks anonymously. All these years later I know that my disturbed but very smart sibling is probably trying to see if any of us says anything negative about him. So I say it in a way he can't find.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 16 Jun 18 - 01:59 PM

Mudcat Member Incognito/a,
this is a good place for support when needed.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Charmion
Date: 18 Jun 18 - 10:17 AM

How ghastly, Incog. The Internet has plenty of unsolicited advice that is worth precisely as much as you pay for it -- i.e., nothing. But it is so hard to ignore, especially when introduced with belittling remarks such as "Get over yourself."

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Joe_F
Date: 18 Jun 18 - 08:51 PM

In my experience, depression pretty much coincides with contact with reality. Sure, it's "chemical" -- so is being sober.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 20 Aug 18 - 02:02 PM

Thankfully, the relative with the Ecstasy/MDMA and its consequences
has been preoccupied with I-don't-care-what-else
and so I am not the focus of that relative's attention.

The relative turning my way now
is the drama queen who periodically threatens that
they don't think they can live with the way that things are anymore.

The signals coming my way are
"no more mister nice guy."
Like I ought to be surprised?
It is typical of this relative
to put noisy threats out.

Earlier this month,
an exchange of e-mails took place
between me and a bank administrator,
all very civil and no resistance or hostility.
But the e-mails did reference the operatic relative
who did not make direct contact with me.

"Periodic" is the clearest way I can describe the pattern
that has been established for these behaviors.
There will be a temporary period of intense attention-seeking
and when the period inevitably ends,
an indefinite period of silence.
This alternating pattern has been maintained
for a good thirty years.

The signs are that the moment has arrived
for some more passive-aggressive hostilities.

My own conclusion is that peace is the thing, at this point,
for which sacrifices and efforts are worthwhile.
The old relationship, on the other hand,
is not worth fighting for.

Thanks for listening.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: wysiwyg
Date: 20 Aug 18 - 04:55 PM

Have you looked at how family of borderline personality folks stay afloat? That pattern sounds quite familiar; it can absorb everything if you allow it to capture your boundaries.

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 20 Aug 18 - 05:06 PM

looked where?

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mr Red
Date: 21 Aug 18 - 08:51 AM

keberoxu
You are not your brothers' keeper.

Even with a strong will and stamina you can't help people who don't want help. Or worse, they accept help and misuse it, and sap what energy you have.

As one ex-girlfriend pointed out to me people gravitate towards the familiar. Your task is to recognise when your familiar is beneficial or otherwise.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: wysiwyg
Date: 21 Aug 18 - 09:10 AM

Keb--

Not saying it IS borderline personality disorder. Def not saying you should allow closer contact or try to help. But you may be able to glean more possible self care strategies among links here:


Google search: borderline personality family coping

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 09 Sep 18 - 06:22 PM

The drama plods on. I'm keeping my head down as much as I can,
and keeping myself to myself.

A warning came my way, though, that
I can expect something in the post.
And it is going to be a passive-aggressive gesture.

In the past I have literally done
"refused, return to sender" with mail from this person.
May have to do it again -- since I know better than to touch it,
whatever it is.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Sep 18 - 09:44 PM

"Refused, return to sender" is an excellent way to deliver a message. I've used it a couple of times myself.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Senoufou
Date: 10 Sep 18 - 04:02 AM

I agree Stilly.
Don't engage keberoxu, protect yourself and return the thing unopened, or sling it in the dustbin.
Sending you strong and steady thoughts!

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 08 Oct 18 - 08:01 PM

I owe you all an update. Thanks for the encouraging responses.

Nothing has arrived in the mail from the person in question.

There was one other thing I did. Didn't tell you about it before now.

Recently, I heard from the bank administrator who
had e-mailed me about my relative.
I mentioned this a few posts back on this thread.

It turned out, that the relative I am talking about
did not want to send anything to me directly
( and with reason, as I have done
Return To Sender with this relative in years past,
so the relative knows to expect this from me)

so the relative, or maybe it was the relative's representative,
contacted this banker and asked if
the banker would ask me if it was all right
if the relative sent me something through the financial institution.

So we are getting more and more indirect and passive/aggressive here,
I guess.

Accordingly,
I sent an e-mail, not long ago,
to the bank officer who has been politely sending me e-mails.
And I said:

Look, I have no idea what my relative wants to send me.
I know nothing about the contents, and to me
the contents are no big deal anyhow.
But I have this to warn you about, I said to the officer:
I am aware that this relative has a certain intent,
and the person intends me no good.
There has been contact a while back that was respectful,
and the content was all right.
But recently my relative has had a change of intent
and now it is about manipulating and power plays.

I concluded my message to the bank officer saying,
I reckon that you all would rather not get pulled into the middle
of all this anyway.
I have yet to contact my legal counsel about this;
I am just telling you what I know
and what I expect here.
I am prepared to go
to the postal inspector and/or the authorities
should you ship/pass along something to me
in which no good is intended, and that I object to.


So. I did all that, since my last post to this thread ...

the bank officer did not send a response e-mail...

and nothing has shown up in the post.

Maybe it is safe to exhale?
Thanks for letting me talk about this.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Senoufou
Date: 09 Oct 18 - 04:35 AM

Oh well done keberoxu! It's the only way forward - refusing to engage or accept any contact by any means whatsoever.
It is indeed passive-aggressive, and just their way of rattling your cage.
You've done the right thing in my humble opinion.
Stay strong and don't waiver. They'll get the message eventually.
Dew yew keep a-troshing mawther!

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: wysiwyg
Date: 09 Oct 18 - 07:41 AM

I agree.

It sometimes happens that a toxic person's life deals them (out of your vision) just the right lesson that they needed to find their way to health. They often then have a desire to make amends-- before realizing their need may cause more harm than balm.

It's important to remember that, in the event that is ever their intention-- however grand that might be FOR THEM-- they can never catch up to where you've had to grow. They can never be a partner in any kind of relationship until your own healing is complete and, even then, it can never be close to equal. Their next (healthiest) step will always be to hear "no".

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 25 Jan 20 - 03:54 PM

It would have been a better option, this year,
to revive my old thread
and keep the focus on my feelings and my coping strategies,
rather than open a new thread
about the external stimuli which trigger same.
Too late to take that back,
however the new thread can be released to
its inevitable outcome,
while the coping and the triggers are considered here instead.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Jan 20 - 06:16 PM

Yeah, right.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 26 Jan 20 - 04:43 PM

My attorney once brought up the subject of survivors' guilt,
or is it survivor's guilt,
and she might have a point there.

Until recently I would have denied this,
however it wants looking at, I suspect.

A lot of presumptions give way with careful consideration.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jan 20 - 09:07 PM

I've never needed an attorney. Maybe that's the thing.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 27 Jan 20 - 11:18 AM

Mudcat member michaelr pointed out -- not in an aggressive way,
just stating the facts --
that my posts/threads have the quality of
someone talking to themselves,
and yes, it did strike a nerve.

The point, as usual, was valid and well taken, regardless.
It must have come as little surprise to michaelr when
my response to his statement
completely proved his point,
demonstrating that interactions with others
expose all my lacks, shortcomings, and character defects.
In short, michaelr was / is right about me.

That's the most I can offer at this point.
If I make any progress,
most likely others will see it before I see it.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 28 Jan 20 - 02:23 PM

Beginning the process of application for
admission to treatment.
No, I'm not in crisis, nor am I suicidal.

But I have spent years maintaining on anti-depressant meds,
and if not going downhill,
then have got stuck.
May go downhill if I don't have help getting unstuck.

the place to which am applying is a really good institution.
That means much preparation is in order.
Their admissions dept needs input from
the physician who writes the prescription for my anti-depressants.
They want to hear from my former counselor, and more:
Since my counselor has more experience than clinical credentials,
I have agreed to consult someone in my area with
really heavy accreditation --
have now met with this person three times,
must return for one more consult.
Then this professional will contact admissions
with "clinical context" about the applicant, me.   
Also this latter professional had a fellowship years ago
at this particular center, and knows how the place functions,
not the case with my former counselor.

I anticipate an ordeal; having said that, what is one more?

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Jan 20 - 02:33 PM

Good luck.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Jan 20 - 08:11 PM

You sound like an avid reader keb. What motivated you to read?
As a child did you ever invent a language of your own?
Are you good at math?
How did you do in geometry?

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 06 Feb 20 - 01:46 PM

Belated thanks, Donuel,
for passing on katlaughing's welcome to you when
you were a Mudcat newbie like myself.

Gotta watch my physical/lifestyle symptoms and presentation these days.
It's much much more difficult,
in the past week,
to go to sleep at night
or to get out of bed in the morning --
with a clinical-depression diagnosis,
these are always warning signs.

Can I be motivated to move through the resistance
and work with greater dedication toward recovery?

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Senoufou
Date: 06 Feb 20 - 01:53 PM

keberoxu, I do hope you can indeed work through this. I'm sorry you're 'not feeling too cracky' as we say in Norfolk. It's hard to keep going and get motivated when one is depressed. (My niece has this problem)
Sending you loads of kind thoughts.
(And dew yew keep a-troshing gel!)

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 08 Feb 20 - 09:44 AM

The application process has moved forward.
With "clinical context" from a local psychiatrist as input,
the center/clinic has enough information
to consider the in-person interview appointment.
I am advised, by the psychiatrist
(a former Fellow in the fellowship program at the Center,
so has worked there and been trained there),
that the in-person visit goes on for a whole day
and can be "rather tiring."

To be continued.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 11 Feb 20 - 04:00 PM

On the waiting list! And a packet expected in the mail.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Senoufou
Date: 11 Feb 20 - 06:55 PM

Hope you don't have too long to wait keberoxu. Not sleeping well can be so difficult, and affects one's daily life.
We're all here for you, and thinking of you, please be sure of that!
Eliza x

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 14 Feb 20 - 02:00 PM

The packet was delivered in the mail today.
Still don't have a firm date from this clinic.
The cover letter says that the clinic,
having put me on the waiting list,
is "waiting for an opening."

So, waiting for the other shoe to drop, I suppose.

I am trawling the world wide web looking for
info in layman's language about this particular place.
It has been around for a number of generations, it isn't new.
And info is thin on the ground, for obvious reasons of confidentiality.

It is not difficult, however,
to find sensational things about this place;
comes with the territory.
At the very least, there has been
change and upheaval, and occasional scandal.
It would be imprudent to repeat the stuff here,
but it has been interesting to search and to look at these accounts.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Feb 20 - 02:46 PM

Reaching delta sleep is restorative to the body and mind.
Some antidepressants interfere with reaching delta states.
In general, antidepressants tend to suppress REM sleep and increase the time taken to enter REM sleep. ... In some studies, selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs), like sertraline and fluoxetine, have been shown to disturb/fragment sleep.


Its up to you to tinker or rely on nature

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Feb 20 - 07:14 PM

Just leave your huntin' rifle at home, Dan... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Feb 20 - 07:22 PM

Damn! I was looking at the wrong end of the list of posts. I was responding to something that old dude posted in April '17...

Howya, Dan!

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 14 Feb 20 - 07:33 PM

I remember that post!   
I hope olddude is thriving.
It's the Gnu I'm worried about.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 19 Feb 20 - 03:02 PM

The other shoe dropped today, it seems.

Just got off the telephone with the admissions department at the center.
They expect me, packed and ready to check in,
first thing this coming Monday morning!
Reality check!

Don't want to jinx myself by saying this, but
once I agreed to the concession (business metaphor, it stinks really)
of the extra expense of time and money that goes with
a series of consultations with a well-connected local psychiatrist
(nice person, by the way -- made the experience downright pleasant),
so as to supply this clinic/center with the needed "clinical context",
once that was done and in place,
everything moved rapidly and smoothly.

Even the weather is improving for my solitary drive from my home
to the clinic.
I'm going to break the drive into two bits, as I'm able to make reservations to stay the night in places.
The first part of the trip, I will make Friday as everything is closing down late in the day. Stay overnight en route.
Then check out Saturday morning, drive the rest of the way,
and on Saturday at check-in time
I will be, God willing, at a hotel convenient to the clinic.
Check in for two nights, so I will have all of Sunday in town.
Ready to check out good and early on Monday.

Unless something unforeseen surprises me or changes my plans:
Monday morning I will be parked at the clinic, and show up PROMPTLY
for an in-person tour, which tour is always held at a set time and they don't wait for latecomers.
From the tour to the physician's office for the admissions interview.
Lunch break in the dining area for the in-patient, er, patients, which means with attending nurses
(the nurses join patients for EVERY meal if I read right).
By this time some decision will have been reached regarding admissions.
Presuming that all systems are go,
the admissions consultant tells me on the phone
that "the treatment starts right away"
and I will be kept busy all the rest of the day
after checking in.
Sounds like one hits the ground running here.

I ran through all sorts of questions on the phone today,
everything from having my mail forwarded,
to, what nutritional supplements (like my anti-osteoporosis minerals)
am I permitted with in-patient status,
what about insurance pre-certification ...
is there a patient kitchen where
I can put a bottle of unfiltered apple juice
(labeled with my name on it) in the patient refrigerator (yes there is) ...

well, I can't say how far this is going to go,
but it will be an adventure at least. A big step, hopefully forward.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 21 Feb 20 - 03:28 PM

On the road, about to check in, settle in for the night,
eventually a light supper near the hotel.
I haven't got enough luggage.
I have more than enough to put in the luggage,
but I haven't enough luggage.
So my poor car has all my suitcases and tote bags
along with some loosely packed stuff.

Whom am I kidding?
Something or other is always missed, regardless
of what does get packed and trucked with.

I can hardly imagine what is ahead next week.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 23 Feb 20 - 12:57 PM

Tomorrow is admission day.
There is a retrograde of Mercury in effect at the moment;
this happens about three times every year.
When it happens, the best laid plans gang aft agley.
So one has to be prepared and flexible.
My hotel reservation, for instance, got all miscommunicated,
but something got worked out patiently at the front desk.

I can't think what else to say in this post.
Such a big thing is ahead.
If it flops I will take it rather hard.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 24 Feb 20 - 07:37 PM

This post comes from the room that has computers for the patients ... adjacent to a sort of community center, and also connected to the big residence for the in-patient population with its private rooms and dining area and nurses' station.

I am IN. All the way IN.
I got run off my feet today! So many appointments and consultations.
So much paperwork and forms to sign. Told the same histories about four or five times to four or five different professionals.

Upon arrival, one is escorted to a private room that will only be home/sleeping for a few days, they call these admission rooms. So one starts there. I got a corner room! It's a little cell of a room,
but being on the corner it has got TWO, count 'em, TWO windows!
The shared bathroom is in the hall just outside.

Two delicious meals (ate breakfast before showing up at the clinic).
I didn't see the entire physical plant/campus but I saw too much as it was!
And there are patient handbooks, and regulations, and ever so much to read...
a complete physical exam tomorrow.
And I met too many fellow patients, how will I ever remember names?

Before the weekend, if I heard right, I will be assigned a room in a different wing of the big residence, and that will be my room throughout the prolonged evaluation period.
What I didn't get much of today, it is yet to come,
is a sense of the patient community, as this is an extremely community-oriented treatment clinic. That is a little daunting. To be a newbie, fitting in ... maybe a lot of acquaintances, maybe a friendship, and then all these group meetings ( not on the first-day patient agenda), they happen every week. I'm as nervous as I would be about an audition in my misspent youth.
Staff are terrific, the consults are hard work and reassuring at the same time.
Can hardly believe I'm here.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Senoufou
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 12:54 PM

I just wanted to wish dear keberoxu a very good outcome to her long-term stay in the clinic, and to hope that things are going well there.
I'm sure everyone here is wishing you well keb, and sending you lots of good vibes.
Keep a-troshing gel!
Eliza

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Senoufou
Date: 26 Feb 20 - 06:31 AM

Did you sleep well keberoxu? I expect you're quite busy today with interviews and consultations etc.
Still thinking of you and wishing you well.
Eliza

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 26 Feb 20 - 08:42 AM

Just saw this. Re your original post, good for you for putting on your own oxygen mask before trying to help your relatives. All the best in your patient-ce!

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 26 Feb 20 - 02:35 PM

From that there clinic:
We just had us a fire drill.
Thankfully no rain was coming down; it has rained, so everything underfoot was mud and muck. But nothing falling at that moment, so we stood out in front of the big residence while staff counted heads, and then they let us back in. The fire drill is monthly, and once all of us are outside the building, they work really fast to get us back inside.

Talking of wet, maybe in the near future, the shower will have warm water. My hair wants washing because the shower had nothing but cold water and I chickened out. So of course I reported it. Not a private bathroom, a shared one on the hall; the sink has hot water, but not the shower. At first I wondered if this was on purpose -- would you call that paranoid? Well, this building is remarkably elderly, although on the inside it shows every sign of having been thoroughly overhauled and renovated.

Yesterday it was all that I could do to stay awake, but I managed. A complete physical exam was required, and the very thorough physician thinks that an order for testing for sleep apnea is in order. No rush, but eventually. Sleeping well at night for all that, and every night of better sleep helps matters a little more.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Senoufou
Date: 26 Feb 20 - 03:09 PM

I'm a great believer in the restorative powers of a really good night's sleep, so I'm glad to hear you've been getting lots of shut-eye.
Could you maybe wash your hair in the washbasin? (If you have fairly short hair, it might be possible)
You sound so sensible and positive keb, keep on keeping on!

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: mg
Date: 26 Feb 20 - 04:44 PM

Sounds good. I had not been following your thread. It is good that you got or are getting help. I wish everyone could.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Helen
Date: 26 Feb 20 - 07:16 PM

keberoxu, I missed this thread and another kind Mudcatter recommended it to me.

I knew from other threads that you have been stressed but now I know why.

I second what Mrrzy said. Look after yourself first and then decide whether to share your concern with others, if they are open to your gift of caring. If they aren't and have proven that they on their own destructive path, then be proud of yourself for trying but walk firmly away.

I am so glad that you are now in the right place to find a more healing and peaceful self.

Helen

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 27 Feb 20 - 10:02 AM

Ah, community living. As disclosed in a previous post,
my shared hallway bathroom
has hot water at the sink
and cold water, only, in the shower (no tub).

Around the corner and down another hallway in the same wing,
is another shared bathroom.
Thus, I finally have clean damp hair because I ventured to
a different communal bathroom than the one designated for my room.

Furthermore, the question from the nursing care coordinator:
Why didn't XYZ across the hall from you,
whose room is the other designated room to share that one bathroom,
complain about the lack of hot water in the shower before you did?
"Well," I said,
"maybe he knew the shower had no warm water and so
he just went and showered in that other bathroom around the corner
and didn't say anything to anybody about it..."

... it's called examined living. Literally: Examined Living.
Anyway, the care coordinators were formally informed by me that
this bathroom has no hot water in the shower, and
an order has now been filled out and submitted. Sigh.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 27 Feb 20 - 10:47 AM

Sounds like progress on several fronts... And backs, and (never mind)!

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 27 Feb 20 - 06:29 PM

That local psychiatrist turns out to have served two purposes.
The clinic asked me to meet with said psychiatrist so as to
give "clinical context" to admissions about me, which was done.

Turns out the other way that the psychiatrist was important,
was to contact my insurance, as a provider, and to help insurance determine
how much I needed treatment.
The letter (from the clinic) was formally delivered to me this week,
saying that the insurance would accept the treatment thing.
This means a high deductible and subsequent co-pay.
Without the psychiatrist contacting my insurance as a provider,
I'm not certain how acceptable the insurance would have found this.

So that is good news.
Oh, the shower -- somebody finally solved the mystery.
The thing that determines cold and hot water, and the mix, in the shower,
was installed backwards.
When that happens, the lever cannot just be adjusted the way one does, by turning to hot water and then easing away from it in order to include enough cool water so as not to get burned.
In this case, you have to stand there wiggling the lever back and forth, back and forth, back and forth, and eventually
the shower will cough up some warmth --
but not with the lever in the conventional hot-water position ...

it seems like a dirty trick.
I guess it's just what happens.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 29 Feb 20 - 10:51 AM

Haven't been here seven days, and already the patient community
has had send-off gatherings (with refreshments and party vibes)
for two patients as they are discharged.

Last night was the second discharge. I have to speak carefully here.
So I won't give up the gender of the patient, nor the amount of time they were in treatment.
The gathering last night was literally open to all, and the staff who came were
mostly nurses or 'mental health workers' who are not themselves nurses but assist the nursing department.
These are the staff members who eat in the patient dining room with the patients and who do the daily contacts and assessment.
One such staff member cheerfully told the departing patient,
with all of us looking on and listening in, that
they had come a long way in *** number of ****s, if you get my meaning.
And I blurted out " *** ****!!" repeating the amount of time.
Suffice to say this patient's treatment was indeed LONG-TERM.
The charge nurse on the night shift looked over her shoulder at me
and said with a big grin,
"How does it feel hearing that XYZ was here for '*** ****'?"
"They must have needed it very much," I squawked back.

This clinic has, aside from all the hospital protocols,
a patient assessment thingy in place.
The patient assesses themselves on this scale on admission,
and again on discharge;
at discharge, they get to compare the two self-assessments.
And our departing patient volunteered that it was a rude awakening
to see how little self-awareness they had upon admission, and
how blindly optimistic an assessment they made of themselves.
And said laughing:
"I leave here feeling worse than when I came in," partly sardonic
but also partly truthful.

Other treatment places may be different, but in this clinic,
the truth is king.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 29 Feb 20 - 03:32 PM

So you have to wrassle a long hard thing to get a spurt of warm liquid? I am back to the shower trouble.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 29 Feb 20 - 03:42 PM

Actually, because somebody [me] spoke up to the nursing station
and had an order put in,
the person who responded to the order
opened up the dial/switch
and moved it to the correct alignment.
And now -- last time I checked, anyhow --
the shower lever works the way it was supposed to in the first place.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Senoufou
Date: 29 Feb 20 - 04:09 PM

Well I'm glad to hear that keberoxu! They really ought to have sorted that out immediately.
Still thinking of you and wishing you well.
Eliza

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Feb 20 - 05:45 PM

Your shower story reminded me of Bill Murry in ground hog day.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 29 Feb 20 - 08:16 PM

ah, but it's leap-year day, not Groundhog day.
The sun shone through the snow flurries today.
Does that mean it won't be spring for six weeks?

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Helen
Date: 29 Feb 20 - 09:50 PM

The shower thing might have been a test to see how proactive you are at problem identification and notification. You passed that test with flying colours.

Or it might be a dastardly trick to make people more stressed. Nah! Sounds like they are too nice for that. LOL

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 02:25 PM

February, leap-year day and all, is past, and March is here.
And after a cold snap, the weather is headed back to where it was
on my arrival a week ago: unseasonably warm and bright outside.

There is a rhythm in the patient schedule:
all the individual treatments are on weekdays.
Weekends no-one sees a psychiatrist or therapist except when urgent.
As to the peer-driven group activities,
every weekday does have a community meeting;
but for in-patients, both weekend days have group meetings
that are separate from the community meetings.
So, when the professionals disappear from the weekend routine,
the peer groups (with nursing staff) pick up the slack.

This coming week, my schedule will not be bursting with interviews, introductions, and admission assessments as last week's schedule was.
Along with weekday treatment and appointments, my schedule will have time
for the community meetings that I could not go to last week (except for one or two).
Have to introduce more interactions with the other patients into life.

And so, slowly getting acquainted with more individuals.
Young adult women do predominate the patient population, some of them really young adults still close to their parents.
It is sobering to discover how urgently they needed treatment when they got here.
Now becoming apparent that this is not the easiest gig for men.
Those men patients who are more extroverted and gregarious have the advantage here.
I have now got used to the silent introverted men who seem quietly resigned to
the raised voices of the younger women patients.
The men's presence is far from threatening; I like having them around.

Can't say enough good things about the nurses and their fellow 'mental health workers' at the residence. More than one patient has expressed how nurturing they are.
So much so that I don't feel alone or isolated here.

The patients who obviously are most conflicted and struggling
are the ones separated from loved ones,
which of course is not the case with me.
Those patients who are parents of children feel a constant pull.
Some of these isolate from the other patients because of this.

One outstanding feature of this treatment center, which
will take time to understand on my part, is
the role of the social workers in family therapy
and as the contacts to the relationships outside.
For some of the patients,
the relationship with their assigned social worker is a lifeline.
They depend enormously on their work with the social worker
in order to progress.
I've only met mine once, and as my emotions were running high at the time,
there was only so much work we could get done at our first consult.
So that remains to develop and to be seen.

One last detail: the cooking is wonderful.
Died-and-gone-to-heaven wonderful.
Three delicious square meals a day. It's an enormous blessing.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Charmion
Date: 02 Mar 20 - 10:59 AM

When everything else in your life has gone to shit or is trying to, good food can be a literal life-saver, and for many patients I'm sure it's the last source of pleasure left. Management at that joint you're in has some good thinking skills.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 02 Mar 20 - 08:45 PM

well, this day has held some surprises.
Went to treatment consults and group meetings as required,
showed up for all three meals (God forbid I miss the food).

A vigorous and diversified activities program is one of the better-known features of
this institution, such that outsiders know about these things.
In this activities program, some people learn a visual-arts medium and end up with their work mounted in a local exhibition.
And then there is the theater, directed by a long-term theater person.
Two plays a year every year. I'm just in time for the spring play.
I had a word with the professional who does this, and said,
Look, I am partly in treatment for sleep-related health issues;
and if I cannot commit to all those nights of rehearsals because
I literally need to go to my room and get some sleep instead,
then that rules me out, right?
And he said no, far from it. We'll work something out.
So tomorrow night already we all start reading, as a group,
and the group will contribute to the decision of which play to perform.
In getting acquainted with each other -- "meet and greet" -- tonight,
we went around the room and said what kind of performing experience, prior to this, we had.
So I mentioned being in my high school play, lo! these many years past; and I went on to add that
I was once a professional musician and did no small amount of performing,
however I wasn't playing any sort of character at the time.
I added that I had been a pianist accompanying other musicians.

So we break up and head our separate ways,
and one of the other patients at the meet-and-greet
(one who has been here for some time, and has already
performed in the plays here last year)
hurried after me to say: excuse me, you're an accompanist?
Would you be interested in playing piano with me, I play cello.
"That was YOU?!" I exclaimed. Because I heard him practicing.
There is a music room conveniently close to this very spot,
the computer station, where I enjoyed myself for hours this weekend;
and many of those hours, somebody was behind closed doors in the music room, practicing solo cello, and playing classical cello music really well.
Well, yes, that was he. So at some point in the future, he is going to pull out some of the music in his repertoire, we will find a piano, he will bring his cello, and I will fight the muscle cramps in my hands and arms from being out of practice for so long.
And who would have thought it!

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Helen
Date: 02 Mar 20 - 11:38 PM

Playing music with other people is uplifting for the spirit, in my opinion. Please keep us updated on your musical sharing.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 03 Mar 20 - 08:14 AM

Sounds great, k. We had no music in my dirst clinic and rhe some we had on the locked ward was super

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 03 Mar 20 - 08:16 AM

First, the, and a period after the super. No editing of posts allowed on my phone, only backspacing. If I touch where I want to edit I can't type any more. This is new.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Charmion
Date: 03 Mar 20 - 11:18 AM

Congratulations, Keb. Great to hear.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Mar 20 - 01:20 PM

That musical opportunity sounds marvelous! I always find I do some of my best thinking when I'm playing for my own pleasure, so hopefully this will be doubly beneficial.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Helen
Date: 03 Mar 20 - 01:41 PM

Not only the best thinking, SRS, but playing music is almost like meditation for me. I have seen studies showing the positive influence of playing music on a range of emotional and physical aspects of life.

Don't ask me to quote my sources, because I've been seeing them in the media and in documentaries for decades.

If I am stressed and play music I am able to bring myself into a completely different head space. And playing music with other people is one of the best pastimes that I know. I've said for years that going to parties where people stand around drinking and talking about whatever is not my scene, but make it a party where people are playing music and it's my idea of heaven on earth.

(Please bear in mind that I don't play thrash metal. I'd like to see the studies on the influence of thrash metal on the musicians' emotional and physical well-being. LOL)

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 10:53 AM

The spring play in the drama activities program has yet to be chosen,
it will, however, be Shakespeare.
We are reading through Shakespeare plays as a group this week.
Yes, there is a Shakespeare play every spring, and so when we read,
the plays done in the recent past are ruled out.
There was a recent Hamlet, so no Hamlet this year.

The fellow patient who plays the cello,
is part of the group interested in drama, as stated in an earlier post.
A natural performer, very passionate and emotional; it will interest me greatly
to see in what role he is cast.
There are, it will not surprise you to hear,
more women than men.
The staffperson who runs the drama activity, and directs the plays,
is an older man who is a seasoned director and knows Shakespeare repertoire well.
He really loves working with the patients in their modest theater on the clinic campus.
It will be fascinating to observe what he does to adapt a dramatic production to the abilities of clinic patients.
It is a given that some of the men's roles will be played by women
because there aren't enough men.

That said, there is a method I'm already aware of:
the first people cast in the chosen play,
come from the patient population.
Shakespeare plays can be densely populated, and it is regularly the case
that there are more roles than interested patients.
So then the next phase of casting takes place, opened up to
the local community on an amateur/volunteer basis.
The drama program has been running in this fashion at this clinic
for decades now,
thus there is a dedicated support system at the community level.
When the week of performances takes place, in May,
there will be a good crowd in the audience -- tickets are sold --
and the audience will come from a distance in some cases.

At "community meetings" oriented to the patients -- and governed by the patients -- which take place five days a week,
a heck of a lot can come out. Each weekday has a separate agenda.
Yesterday, the agenda included -- I'm using different terms than the committee/rulebook uses --
infractions of the community guidelines and rules, and disruptive ongoing situations.
There are structures in place, all engaging the patient community,
to look at community problems and issues. It is at the meetings that I realize how ill some of the patients are,
because oddly, in this no-locked-ward, open-community setup,
there is considerable peer pressure to carry yourself a certain way.
You can be withdrawn and uncommunicative, but as long as you are not disruptive,
the community can contain you and your behavior.
Some individuals however have got behavior that is screaming for care and attention, they really need help.
I've only been here ten days. Yesterday's meeting spent considerable time, and a lot of heated exchanges and emotion,
on a person who was absent -- by choice --
who has been a problem for months now. I can't say a lot.
This patient started out sociable and formed friendships.
Then, the deeper into the treatment over time,
the more anti-social the patient has become.
When confronted by the structured committees about behavior,
the patient's hostility increases, the anger and resistance increases,
and there is even more pushing away of people.
This is a patient I have yet to meet in my ten days here,
and I have been introduced to so many fellow patients.

The people I speak to here, who have been here a while and are the most mature and wise in perception (this includes fellow patients), remind me that work of this depth and intensity makes slow progress, gradual forward progress.
I am seeing the drama that goes with someone who really, really needs to be here. And I can see that a full resolution may be a long way off, and it won't be one nice neat package deal.
I feel for the patients who have been verbally attacked by the troubled individual. That's all for now.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 05 Mar 20 - 04:40 PM

Did I tell you that the patient activities department and the drama division
have narrowed down this year's "spring play" to
two by Shakespeare:
Pericles (very late Shakespeare), or A Midsummer Night's Dream.
Another reading tonight, and we will see what we will see.
I'm in, for better or worse.
It's definitely going to take a big chunk out of my sleep;
but I realized that
I would really kick myself for letting them do it without me!

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Helen
Date: 05 Mar 20 - 06:42 PM

I recently bought a Margaret Atwood novel, which I haven't read yet.

It's about a theatre company in a prison, so that doesn't relate to you, but it might have some similarities to the theatre group you are involved with.

Hag-Seed

"When Felix is deposed as artistic director of the Makeshiweg Theatre Festival by his devious assistant and longtime enemy, his production of The Tempest is canceled and he is heartbroken. Reduced to a life of exile in rural southern Ontario—accompanied only by his fantasy daughter, Miranda, who died twelve years ago—Felix devises a plan for retribution.

"Eventually he takes a job teaching Literacy Through Theatre to the prisoners at the nearby Burgess Correctional Institution, and is making a modest success of it when an auspicious star places his enemies within his reach. With the help of their own interpretations, digital effects, and the talents of a professional actress and choreographer, the Burgess Correctional Players prepare to video their Tempest. Not surprisingly, they view Caliban as the character with whom they have the most in common. However, Felix has another twist in mind, and his enemies are about to find themselves taking part in an interactive and illusion-ridden version of The Tempest that will change their lives forever. But how will Felix deal with his invisible Miranda’s decision to take a part in the play?"

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 07 Mar 20 - 10:24 AM

Two mornings ago, before dawn -- sometime between 4 am and 6 am -- the service entrance at the in-patient residence received a delivery. One large truck/lorry, and one large order at the back of said truck. The delivery men worked rapidly, slamming doors and rolling things on dollys and carts, a great metallic thundering noise.
I ought to know. My second-story admit room is directly above the service entrance. I thought there was a thunderstorm! Then I got out of bed, raised a windowshade, and saw the enormous truck directly below the window. But why take it personally? It made me laugh, actually.

The patient in the room next to mine, well, I can't breach confidentiality, but this patient is physically miserable and with good reason, needs their treatment. And my next-door neighbor took the pre-dawn delivery and the noise, personally -- VERY VERY personally. Poor lamb. Between a rock and a hard place, that one. Can't blame the patient for losing it, when they are feeling so rotten to begin with.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 08 Mar 20 - 03:17 PM

In the in-patient residence at the clinic, there are two wings. Actually this residence is a centuries-old Stately Home converted into a clinic residence. The Stately Home itself had these two wings to begin with.
They have been organized into:
an east wing, which has various community areas on both the entrance floor and in the basement.
The upper two floors of the east wing are 'admit' rooms, for which the newly admitted patients have priority in housing.
a west wing, with two upper floors of larger, more gracious housing. Mostly those west-wing rooms are suites which have got one bathroom shared between two bedrooms, and access to said bathroom is through the bedrooms and no place else. The long-term, settled patients are there, moved there from the admit wing.

I'm in an 'admit room' in the east wing. And, as previously stated, when the delivery truck brings the weekly delivery before dawn during a weekday morning, the service loading dock and entrance is directly underneath one window of my tiny room. Like the other 'admit rooms', my room has got a sink and mirror [NO cabinet to hide meds in], and the toilet/bathroom facilities are in the hallway and are shared by the patients in neighboring rooms.
When the truck rolled up last week, in addition to the long time interval of metallic rolling, engine idling, doors slamming, and so on, there was a moment when a man raised his voice and began shouting, seriously shouting. Well, one makes allowances for the fact that the noise continued uninterrupted, and so, right, the man has to shout in order to be heard above the noise. I had a surprise coming, though.

Community meetings (voluntary, but strongly encouraged) take place every weekday. The meeting held that same day, another east-wing, admit-room patient vented their indignation at being awakened before dawn by the truck doing the delivery ... and went on to volunteer that this person, themselves, had inquired about what reason there could be for a delivery at that hour when people are trying to sleep. And went on to relate 'what the delivery men said.'
I put two and two together, and silently thought:
that was YOU?! A fellow patient?
You got up from your bed, threw some clothes on, left your room, went down the stairs, out of the building, over to the service entrance, and SHOUTED AT THE DELIVERY MEN? You, one of the patients, before 5:30 in the bleeping morning??

Their room and my room are on the same floor of the same wing. I didn't hear doors opening and shutting, or footsteps in the hall, and by the time I heard that shouting, I was quite wide awake and fully vigilant (if disinclined to leave the bed), and my ears were on full alert.

I didn't utter a word at the community meeting, only listened.
In the days between then and now, I have been afraid to venture the topic with the person who volunteered those statements during the meeting. But I have discussed it with the nursing/support/community staff, and at one much smaller group I have brought up my experience among the other patients (which do not include the person I suspect of doing the shouting).

If I want to really put this behind me, I will have to have a word with the fellow patient who spoke up in community meeting... what if I get my head bitten off ... but I am imagining all sorts of frightful things, and I fear that only the facts and the truth will put my imagination in its place.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 09 Mar 20 - 01:51 AM

This clinic, as treatment institutions go, is one with a small patient population;
one which is encouraged to bond together and to form alliances, acquaintances, constructive friendships.
Then we are reminded what treatment entails.

Two different patients have had to be released to the local full-service hospital, to be sectioned, and then to be transferred
to a different treatment facility with locked wards and suicide watches,
which this little clinic decided, in the beginning of its history,
never to do, and has stuck by its decision.
One of the two had their crisis just before my own admission.
And the remaining patients (staff, as well) were still processing this development.
The other such patient had their crisis this past week.

Yet another event that I know better than to take personally.
But there was a time and place, in my own therapy and process,
when I, too, took everything personally.
I remember how raw I felt back then.
Some of my fellow patients are just that raw,
and they take it really personally when a fellow in-patient
suffers a setback, a serious one.
I know better now, but who am I to judge them,
when I was once there myself?

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 09 Mar 20 - 08:54 AM

I was mistaken, thank heavens.

The hollering man was one of the night nurses, not a patient. The patient in question had in fact never left the premises, but did the orderly thing and went to the nurses' station. And from there, the night nurse personally went down to the service entrance to, erm, question the delivery men. Then returned to the station, and reported to the patient what the delivery men said to him, the nurse.

So it was all above board, and I let my fears run away with me.
So I have apologized to the patient for suspecting him, he has accepted my apology, and I am rightfully humbled.
And actually the truckers are going to look into adjusting the delivery time. The kitchen staff were unaware that the delivery of the foodstuffs happened THAT early in the day, and it startled them to be told as much. So maybe a compromise can be reached.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 09 Mar 20 - 08:56 AM

You are a person with judgment. Judging is not only allowed, it is required.

When I was in my clinic I shushed a nurse who was positively howling at their phone in the middle of the night when a) people were sleeping but I was up, pacing) and b) we patients weren't allowed phones... Turned out they were on *camera* phone so I turned them in for horrible HIPAA (the P is Privacy) violation. Boy did they get in trouble.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 09 Mar 20 - 06:24 PM

This week, after play-reading,
those of us who signed up for the spring play are to start meeting four nights a week at the clinic's patient activities building,
where the theater space is on the top floor.
And I had to notify by voice-mail message
that I am out, sick. Bummer.
But I started feeling sore ALL OVER, and very weak.
So went to nurses' station, got my temperature taken,
took two Advil, got a little supper,
and am going straight to bed.
And again, bummer. I hope this doesn't get any worse ...

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Mar 20 - 06:37 PM

Just hoping your convalesence goes well

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 11 Mar 20 - 10:37 PM

Thank you, Donuel; thank you, one and all.
I had some time to rest and got attention from the nurses,
and whatever wearied me seems to have run its course,
as I feel like my normal self again.

Ah, I won't repeat what the fellow patients are saying,
it would be imprudent,
but suffice to say that the topic of coronavirus makes for some
lively conversations in a residential long-term treatment clinic
not all that far away from New York City.
Several of my fellow patients have ties there --
if not residents of the Big Apple, then
they have family or friends who are.
No small amount of gallows humor, dark mordant humor.
Relief of tension and anxiety in a modest way.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Senoufou
Date: 12 Mar 20 - 04:45 AM

Oh phew keberoxu! I was...er...just a tiny bit worried there. :O
However, you seem to have pulled through, thank the Lord.
You do sound upbeat and positive, which is very good.
Lots of kind thoughts coming your way!
love, Eliza xx

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 13 Mar 20 - 08:06 PM

Still feeling well, no relapse or anything.

This clinic is probably a better place than most
to wait out the coronavirus pandemic.
There are protocols in place should IT manifest on the premises.
The closest I hear of nearby cases:
one town about six or seven miles down the road
has one confirmed adult case,
and said adult has been admitted
to a hospital within twenty miles, for treatment.
Don't know the particulars of this case,
just heard the announcement on the car radio.

Dispensers of high-alcohol-content hand sanitizer have appeared indoors in multiple locations, especially
in the dining area for residential patients and staff.
The kitchen/dining room staff doesn't include waiters,
as there is a buffet area referred to as a "servery" (?).
But such staff as there are,
if they aren't busy in the kitchen during mealtimes,
are standing at doorways,
watching those areas in which eating utensils are picked up or dropped off,
and those areas which have dispensers for beverages like coffee.
Rather than watch us dining patrons as such,
the servers are watching those vulnerable areas,
and when we venture into them
they watch US, like hawks!
There is also one staffperson standing next to the
hand sanitizer dispenser which is next to the kitchen utensils,
politely reminding each individual
to use hand sanitizer
before touching knives, forks, spoons ...

at the end of the day, one's hands are not only clean
but also a little bit dried out.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 13 Mar 20 - 11:28 PM

Someone at my grocery store self-checkout was cleaning the touchscreen between customers, great job

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: mg
Date: 14 Mar 20 - 01:38 AM

i pick up a wipe used for shopping carts and wipe everything in sight

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 16 Mar 20 - 07:00 PM

Today at the clinic,
there were meetings of the patients
-- in groups no larger than twenty-five people at a time --
about how to comply with state and government mandates
concerning the coronavirus pandemic.

I seriously doubt that this clinic is going to close;
but for all that, the clinic people have to seriously discuss
if and when they MIGHT,
temporarily, close the clinic.
I would guess that admissions are suspended for the moment.

In the meantime, we residential patients may no longer
have buffet-style meals three times a day --
the buffet self-serve approach another object of mandates.
The kitchen is thinking of ways to serve differently
until it's safe to have meals with a buffet again.
No visitors or guests until further notice,
and for us residents, no traveling until further notice.

I feel as safe here as, and safer than,
I would feel in a lot of places.
But everybody, one way or another, is feeling this crisis.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 17 Mar 20 - 12:34 PM

Stay well, physically and all, keberoxu.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 17 Mar 20 - 02:45 PM

Boredom is NOT one of the things I am feeling right now;
on another day there may be time for boredom, but not today.

The clinic's initial six-week treatment procedure, going up to
the case conference that determines future treatment, includes
psychological testing -- some of it projective,
some of it cognitive, other stuff I don't have words for.
Normally, during those first six weeks,
the staff psychologist who administers the testing one-on-one
will space the testing out over three days in a particular week.
He would have done so with me, had things been normal,
which of course they are not.
The first appointment was first thing this morning.

I ate a good breakfast and went straight to the office building.
In the reception lobby, the psychologist met me and led me up the stairs to the topmost floor -- third story.
Not his usual space, but again, things are not normal --
so he got this conference room set aside on the highest floor.

And up there he asked me, how was my schedule today and
did I have the morning free or did I have commitments after this?
I allowed as how our appointment was for two hours of testing,
and after that my schedule was open. And he said:
wanna get all four hours of testing done today?

If I had known what a toll it would take, I don't think I would have agreed.
However: not normal times, I already knew it was strenuous,
so: yes, we might as well get it overwith.

Get it overwith, we have.
We went two-hours plus before he took a break. The break was short.
When we came back, the harder stuff was ahead, including those infamous Rorschach ink blots,
which initial 'impressions' are followed by going back
a second time through the prints and answering questions.
I was pretty cranky by this time:
whaddaya mean, 'why does it look like a whale'?

So the psychologist and I, with the aformentioned break,
went from 8:30 A to 12:30 A, and were done,
and I staggered back to the inpatient residence for lunch.
Bored? NOT.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 19 Mar 20 - 10:21 AM

A couple of nights' good sleep,
and I feel more like my old self, recovered from the
psych-test four-hour marathon.

While this clinic is the best possible place for me to be,
particularly while weathering the coronavirus pandemic,
there are plenty of fellow patients who disagree with me.

The most unhappy are those who are parents with children.
One patient, a married father whose wife is pregnant,
has said, to heck with it, and is terminating his treatment,
directing the clinic towards discharge,
and heading for home as soon as practical.

Well, naturally, we in-patients are getting on each other's nerves
under the stress and strain of the present,
especially with the future holding
all these threatening unknowns.
Some patients, predictably, increase their voluntary isolation.
When it is mealtime,
they show up at the dining room/kitchen area,
get their meal to-go,
and without further ado they carry the dishes and walk away,
to eat in the privacy of their residence rooms.

And some in-patients are sniping shrilly at the rest of us
because we get closer to each other than six feet,
we sit too close together,
we don't wash our hands with sanitizer to THEIR satisfaction,
miaow miaow MIAAAAAAAAAAOW.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 20 Mar 20 - 10:44 AM

We clinic in-patients -- and the patients whose "step-down" treatment plans put them in apartments on the clinic campus, rather than in the big residential building -- are actually very very well taken care of, in spite of the patients who always find something to complain and bleat and moan about.
I have heard no reports of clinic patients, in or out of the big building, showing symptoms of coronavirus or otherwise feeling poorly.

No, the bad news comes from the clinic staff. More than one have developed symptoms or illness. I have heard of these professionals staying at home and cancelling their appointments or what have you. Of course everyone is alert and gossiping as much as their consciences will permit, I mean the patients, sorry, the staff are on their best behavior.
What I have not heard is that anyone has had access to testing here. In this county of the state, there are coronavirus cases; I heard one report on the radio, no name given, but the report gave the name of the town, and it is within ten miles of the clinic, which is the diagnosed person's hometown. This person is now in this county's largest city, where there is a hospital, and in treatment -- and isolation -- there.

I know of no one personally who has experienced someone whom they know dying, yet, of coronavirus; no doubt this too will change.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 02:28 PM

This high-end clinic takes seriously the consideration of a patient's family. To that end, every clinical 'team' to which any patient is assigned, includes a fully certified social worker. Even I have a social worker here. This is a new experience for me, as I have avoided living with others since I left my family of origin, and I don't have significant others, or dependents, or in-laws, or what have you.

Part of the initial six-week evaluation includes a detailed family history for each patient. The new patient goes over their family history with the social worker in particular. This is going to result in the social worker drawing up something I have never seen before, they call it a geno-gram. Still in preparation, I think I have supplied all of my information but I have yet to see this diagram.

The other thing the social worker does, has two parts to it, and that is the social worker advocating on behalf of the patient to the patient's family.
Firstly, the patient and the social worker decide whether any family member is to have information disclosed to them about the patient's status and treatment, and whatever is decided, a formal agreement is drawn up, signed, and dated, to that end.
Secondly, the social worker contacts the patient's relatives to interview them about the patient's history from the relatives' point of view.

This month, my assigned social worker received my permission to talk by phone with one of my blood relatives, not saying which one. It would have to be, wouldn't you know, one of the relatives who is most disruptive. In the end, it had to be so: it is the family that decides which relatives will manage affairs and monitor communications on the family's behalf, so even though this relative is one of the unbalanced ones, communicating through this person conforms to family expectations -- and is more satisfactory to the family. The thing is, I now have an advocate in this social worker, doing the communicating on my behalf, and this clinician is the one who takes the heat, not me.

I can't even put into words how huge this is for me.
This kind of advocacy is something even my attorney, financially oriented as my attorney is, has not provided for me.
I suppose I ought to be really emotional about this, and pleased about it.
Instead I feel worn out and exhausted. Having turned this corner, so to speak, I'm just so tired and weary -- okay, depressed -- from years of putting a brave face on and keeping the stiff upper lip, and not giving anybody the satisfaction of seeing me show any signs of vulnerability. More than anything, I feel like rest and quiet is what I need.

For these reasons, the coronavirus restrictions pose no hardship for me at all: the clinic campus is my home, the care is excellent, and I can actually rest and relax as I have not done in years. I feel too weary even to weep, although someday the tears will come -- I know there is at least one good cry inside of me, I'm just too weary to let it out.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 23 Mar 20 - 03:46 PM

Interesting times at the mental health clinic.
This institution has meticulous and elaborate hierarchies of treatment plans. As patients stabilize, make progress, and become more prepared to ease back into the world outside,
there are ways to "step down" their treatment while not yet going so far as discharge.
The little clinic is organized so that the campus includes, not only the in-patient residence and the building with the conference rooms, offices, and other public functions,
but also some homes that have been converted to 'multi-family', in other words, apartment residences.
In these, patients who no longer require nursing supervision, can check in daily at the clinic and can keep on getting treatment,
while they get the hang of living together outside the in-patient residence.
There are treatment plans in which a patient lives nearby and agrees to treatment less than five days a week, with according reduction in the weekly amount billed to them.
Some hold down jobs as they do so.
And this is all BEFORE discharge and aftercare.

What has this to do with the coronavirus and the sheltering?
A heck of a lot.
Not all of the decisions have been fixed yet,
and a lot of the planning is at the contingency stage.
For one thing --
knock on wood --
we have no patients with symptoms of coronavirus, and thus,
no patients who require quarantine and that sort of nursing.

Four staffpersons, however, including
one nurse and one physician,
are ill and at home, and are being or have been tested;
word of mouth has it that test results for these clinicians here
will come through this week.

In the meantime, contingency plans are being made
in case there are patients who sicken with coronavirus;
such as, which wing of the residence can be closed off so that
only the nurses and other staff are admitted,
while the rest of us carry on in a different wing...

we are supposed to be hunkering down for the rest of March and all of April, but naturally everything is subject to change.
I feel safe and well, but we have some patients here
with anxiety issues to begin with,
and they are NOT happy campers.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 01:08 PM

I *really* enjoyed taking the Rorschach. Really. My shrink, though, felt sorry for the tester, apparently smart people take foreeever.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 05:01 PM

The CEO of the clinic, himself a psychiatrist,
sat down today with the "therapeutic community"
-- clinic-speak for us patients with some nursing/mental-health-worker staff -- to bring us up to date on the clinic versus the coronavirus pandemic.

A nurse who was ill, received negative test results, yay!
A staff intern in the clinic admissions office,
who went home ill on 10 March and has not returned to work,
received test results positive for coronavirus.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 26 Mar 20 - 04:07 PM

Earlier this week, one patient at the clinic woke, and
had unusual difficulty breathing. Nurses on full alert!
Rushed the otherwise healthy young man to the ER,
got him testing, he was kept for observation.

Today his coronavirus test results returned: Negative.
Enormous relief here at the clinic residence hall.

No other patient at the clinic is symptomatic;
however there have been deaths of friends, from COVID-19,
for a handful of patients here.

This week alone, three clinic patients --
two were in-patients with rooms at the residence,
one was living on-campus in one of the clinic apartments --
have discharged earlier than planned,
largely because they have families they are concerned about.
Then there is one in-patient here who is really fragile, and
just had their clinical case conference.
This patient has to stay for now, because if discharged,
their home area lacks the resources and support they need so much.
However, this patient's children include a special-needs child
and the patient is FURIOUS at being separated from the child.
Tricky and touchy situation, AND this patient is a one of the drama-venting types.

The nursing staff is very stressed and some of them have been insensitive with patients, which makes a bad thing worse.
Most of the nurses, however, know better.
We are actually very well cared for here
and I can't personally imagine anyplace better to be
with this pandemic going on. So I am holding up all right.
No further aches or pains, either, and sleeping well.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 28 Mar 20 - 08:10 PM

The one patient who displayed symptoms reminiscent of coronavirus
has been tested,
and found negative for COVID-19.
Up to this moment, no other patients are ill.
Apparently the precautions we have been taking
are paying off.

As stated earlier, what directly affects the clinic
is illness in the staff.
One physician is at home, positive for COVID-19.

But there are patients who know people who have died of the disease,
outside.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 10:24 AM

An earlier post dated 13 March 2020
reported on the news of a COVID-19 patient in the hospital,
hometown within ten miles of this institution.

The Sunday edition of the local newspaper gave a summary
of the spread of coronavirus in this particular county.
The patient from that town -- name withheld -- was included in the summary.

It seems that there is an ER or urgent-care facility
in the person's hometown,
and he went there first, earlier.
He is a 70-year-old man, and at that earlier time
he allowed that he had had a cough all winter long.
That facility sent him back home, no testing, no nothing.

It was when this older man took a turn for the worse
that a relative of his put him in the car
and drove him, not to that hometown urgent-care place,
but north to the regional hospital.
And the hospital admitted him, tested him, and put him in isolation.
As of today's report,
the man is still in hospital, in "critical condition;"
other cases in the county have either recovered or have died.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 30 Mar 20 - 05:42 PM

This is Week Six for me here at the clinic,
and tomorrow morning is my case conference.
While my case, and I, provide the subject for the conference,
most of this event is done without me.
Not entirely without me, though.
There is a moment, after the conference is well underway,
when my presence is required in the conference room with the clinicians.
I am told that I will be there for less than half an hour, it might be closer to fifteen minutes.
The conference will be chaired by a clinician who is NOT one of the doctors or therapists whom I see on a regular basis every week;
and this chair will interview me before the other clinicians.
Then they will let me go, I will be escorted from the conference room,
and all the team members will wind up the conference itself.

This is a moment on which all of my future treatment will pivot.
It makes for both worry and happy anticipation
because I feel at home here, and am ready and able to continue --
in truth I am fortunate and blessed to be here.
Regardless, it will be a relief to have the conference behind me!

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 30 Mar 20 - 07:59 PM

Remind them not to sit near each other!

Good to read your news.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 31 Mar 20 - 07:29 PM

They didn't sit near each other.

I allowed myself to show my emotions and express my needs.
Afterwards I could not stop crying.
I am one big ball of hurt.
I slept through supper,
and had a nightmare in which I was weeping and crying for help,
running through a brick building
(NOTHING like the buildings her at the clinic)
asking for someone to please help me,
and everyone disregarded me and shrugged me off.

Maybe if I go back to sleep,
there won't be any more nightmares?

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: mg
Date: 31 Mar 20 - 09:20 PM

are you getting enough fat and protein? Hard when in a group. Some believe night terrors are caused by a sudden drop in blood sugar and then adrenaline being dumped to compensate. Might not correlate with measurements on blood sugar meter. Wouldn't hurt to have a bit of cheese, meat, etc. before sleeping if available.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 31 Mar 20 - 10:56 PM

This post is coming from a long-term residential clinic,
where the cooking is really good and the meals balanced --
"hard when in a group"? Lost me there.

I'm being very well cared for here,
if I were on the outside it would be a lot more ... iffy.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 01 Apr 20 - 11:10 AM

... so, I went back to sleep
and the weird dreams I had, fortunately,
were very laughable ones,
not saturated with long-suppressed grief like the earlier dream.

Today is April Fool's Day
and it is a magnificent sunny picture-perfect day outside.

Of course the trees and shrubs are bare,
but the air is mild enough for early spring.
Have to go to a meeting shortly about
how the clinic is going to deal with the COVID-19 crisis
as a "therapeutic community."
... well, at least I won't be the only one there.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 02 Apr 20 - 04:53 PM

... no, I was far from the only one at that meeting.
This was a community meeting, meaning that
patients actually run the meeting and its government.
Obviously the clinic staff can and does have its own meetings,
but this was an open meeting for all.

What happened was bound to happen.
Tension has been building among the extended community of clinic patients,
and the staff are stressed and off their own game.
The clinic had already decided this week on discharges
for two patients for disciplinary reasons,
and now the community of patients let their feelings out.
This is fascinating to watch:
how conflict is contained and negotiated for the common good.
Not what I'm used to.

it would be most inappropriate to divulge details.
But this communal hostility towards clinic and staff
had to be heard and given air and space,
before the place could calm down again.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 04 Apr 20 - 06:59 PM

I believe the special word used for a clinic or hospital like this,
in the coronavirus restriction lingo, is
"congregate"    it's an adjective, not a noun.
The clinic is in Massachusetts,
which has a statewide "stay-at-home" order until May 4.
But it's different if your domicile is in the "congregate" category:
they are required to follow
"shelter-in-place" protocols, regardless of the rest of the state.

Therefore, although we patients are not under quarantine
and can take brief walks and such,
we are not to travel except as an absolutely essential thing
(like an ambulance to the emergency room, God forbid).

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 05 Apr 20 - 02:26 AM

I think it is a good thing you are having nightmares, keberoxu, they are work being done by your mind, to my mind. I finally had one a couple of nights ago, students just coming into my house without knocking and then treating me like an idiot for minding, and how did they even know where I lived? Looking forward to talking to my shrink about it... even if it has to be over video, yuck. But I was *angry* and that, for me, has got to be a good thing.

I need another phrase.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 05 Apr 20 - 07:33 PM

I moved to a different room in the clinic residence complex.
Did I tell you that when I was admitted (six weeks ago)
I was assigned a little room in the 'admit' wing of the building?
You start over there, and in that wing there are shared bathrooms out in the halls. The rooms are very small and spare.
Initially I was told that I would have to move pretty shortly.

In actual fact:
I was able to stay there in the admit wing for six weeks,
while I got used to being in this institution
and found out how things are done and got acquainted with stuff.
It was made clear to me that living in the admit wing,
for people who stay the course and commit to long-term treatment in residence,
is temporary, and that one is expected to move to the wing on the other side of the residence complex.
That wing does not have bathrooms in the hall.
Either there are two-room suites that share a private bathroom;
or there are a handful of rooms with a bathroom which
does not have to be shared with anyone else.
As you might expect, room vacancies go together with waiting lists.

But what people line up for, are those rooms where you don't have to share.
This is not an issue for me. I do not mind sharing a bathroom.
So I am happy to let other patients compete with each other
about who gets the next private room that becomes vacant.

And then, of course, the coronavirus pandemic happened.
People voluntarily chose to discharge, a number of them,
so as to get home to their families instead of being stuck here.
When that happened there was a great 'musical rooms' shuffle.
Vacant rooms opening up; patients waiting for better rooms,
hustling to move out of the rooms they already have.
And since this clinic campus includes buildings converted to apartments (old large houses),
some patients were permitted to 'step down' their treatment --
while still living on the clinic campus, and still showing up
for therapy and everything,
they could leave the residence for one of these on-campus apartments,
and they would not require daily check-ins at the nurses' station.
Meaning, that some patients remained at the clinic,
but moved out of their rooms in the residence complex.

So you see, there have been a couple of weeks,
the last part of March going into April,
where there was a LOT of moving going on.
And, having decided to commit and stay long-term, I said to myself:
Now is the time to watch closely, and move when the opportunity is good.

Long story somewhat shorter: a suite in the long-term wing opened up. I looked at it last week, then went straight to the station with nursing, and applied to move there.
And now I have surrendered my little room in the admit wing,
and moved into one-half of a two-room suite ...
the other half is unoccupied. And so even though I didn't plan it this way,
I have got a bathroom all to my very own self.
Until somebody moves in on the other side.

The clinic having effectively shut down admissions
while 'shelter-in-place' is in effect for 'congregate' housing,
it may be quite a while before new patients are admitted
and somebody moves in to the other half of my bedroom suite.

Remember all that fuss, a few weeks back, when I was in the admit room
and the delivery truck showed up before dawn and made all that noise?
on account of my room was right on top of the service entrance one storey down?

My new room, while surrounded by other rooms with patients and the the ordinary bits of noise from fellow residents,
is well away from the service entrance where deliveries are made.
And when the other patients are still,
the wing, and the room, is blessedly peaceful!

Mrrzy, I quite agree with you about dreaming
and the mind working on dreams.
My former counselor, years ago, had a word for it --
she said such dreaming was 'productive'!

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 09:12 AM

Good to read, k. Stay in and get better.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 08 Apr 20 - 09:33 PM

Too weary, and need rest too badly, to post at length tonight.
But will have to eventually update this thread
with a report on the struggle
to switch to a different psychiatrist in treatment.
There are actually a small number of psychiatrist MDs on the clinic staff
in comparison to the more numerous Psy. D.s,
not to speak of the social workers.

Switching psychiatrists -- while 'not an outrageous' request,
as I was assured when I asked --
is therefore not easily done,
but I have done my part to accomplish this over the past four weeks or so.
It is out of my hands at the moment.
There is a senior member on the staff who
heads the department of psychiatric specialists,
and it was necessary for me to ask for a meeting with him
in order to plead my case.
I have now done so,
and I reckon that this department head
has also heard from the psychiatrist with whom I clashed in the first place.

So now I have to keep myself in patience
while waiting for the decision,
now in the hands of the senior staff and of that departmental head in particular.

One constructive outcome of me being pro-active and asking for the switch, and insisting on it,
is I have not had to meet with the problem psychiatrist
for two or three weeks now,
and it has been good to be free of that arrangement.

More later.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 10 Apr 20 - 04:12 PM

ah, well ...

just came from an appointment with
the resident psychotherapist to whom I am assigned.
And I feel as though I had a tooth pulled out of my head.
Strange feeling. It smarts, and yet
I feel better now that it is out. Metaphorically.

It's seven weeks, almost two months, into my treatment,
and my psychotherapist surprised me by questioning
my commitment to working with her and being here.
It was a surprise because, strangely,
I am starting to feel as though
I have accomplished what I actually came to do,
and it might be time to go home sooner rather than later.

I don't know.
This clinician has a very cool, smooth presence,
and at first it was soothing and calming.
Now, she feels remote and ... calculated? phony?
We understand each other well on the thought/intellect level;
something is missing emotionally, in the heart.
She hasn't done me any harm.
But she wants more than I am giving her, and oddly,
part of me is saying: ENOUGH.

I didn't expect this to happen.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 11 Apr 20 - 11:38 AM

I figured out the word for the attitude that my psychotherapist
has been giving me for the last two months roughly.

Entitlement. This psychotherapist reeks of entitlement.
A subtle practitioner, this one.
Nothing overt, nothing in poor taste,
and nothing unrehearsed or unprepared.

In my youth, I too have been arrogant and dismissive of people,
and I have certainly given offense, not once but many times.
I'm not saying that I am superior to this clinician.
But having said that,
Mrrzy was right, in an earlier post on this thread:
As a patient, I am, and must be, a person with judgment.

And it is my judgment that the days of
my relationship with my psychotherapist are numbered.
Of course, this will play out over time
and with much conversation between numerous people,
given that this is a clinic with protocols and procedures.
I can't honestly say that I look forward to all the confrontation.
And yet I know
that I will feel all the worse
if I revert to pleasing everybody and giving them what they feel,
ahem, entitled to.
Well, it's the weekend,
and it will be during the weekdays when IT hits the fan.

So I will enjoy the peace and calm while I may.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 11 Apr 20 - 03:22 PM

Hang in there. Accent on the IN.

I never wrote the formal letter of complaint the ward head recommended I write, about the psychiatrist to whom I was assigned in my second loony bin (that I'd been sent to by the first when their time limit ran out and I was still too suicidal to be sent home), for telling me that a) I could not stay unless I let her medicate me and b) there was no access to psychological help on that ward. Both were false, so she both caused me harm *and* prevented me from getting help.
Snot.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 12 Apr 20 - 01:47 PM

So in my first two months at the mental health clinic,
I am dissatisfied with both my psychiatrist and my psychologist.

The psychiatrist, I have completely given up on.
I don't answer his phone messages now.
No doubt he is still being paid, but I'm not showing up.
And that is about to happen with the psychologist/psychotherapist as well.

I surprise myself doing this.
I didn't know I had it in me.
Many are the times that I have just turned tail and run away from a situation -- I've done that more times than I can count.
This may appear similar, only it feels different to me.
I don't want to leave the clinic now,
and this doesn't take into account
the crisis in the world which is changing everything for everyone.

When my psychotherapist, this week, expects me for the customary appointment
-- in the clinic procedure, these appointments are several times every week
-- I have news for her.
I am going to tell her in so many words:
Your heart is not in your work with me.
Where your heart is, and what you have a heart for,
is your affair.
And it isn't my job to make it any different for you.
You go right on pretending that you are all there,
when in fact you are putting on an act, a performance,
which is empty inside, which has no heart,
and you will lose me, sooner rather than later.
I don't want you taking up any more of my time
with hollow, empty talk.
If you won't meet my needs, somebody else will.

My case conference, which was maybe two weeks ago,
appears to me, now, in an entirely different light.
No wonder I felt such anguish during and after the conference.
No wonder I could not help breaking down and crying.
No wonder it hurt so bad.
I feel an utter fool for not having realized all this much sooner.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 13 Apr 20 - 09:40 AM

Within the hour,
I meet -- by telephone -- with my therapist.
I'll be thankful when it's over.
I must be resolute.

I have left a letter for
the director of Patient Care
about my therapist and me,
and about how I can't stand it any more.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 13 Apr 20 - 11:10 AM

The change has started.
It would be incorrect to say, it's done:
no, it has started.

When my therapist and I kept our phone appointment,
I kept control of the conversation,
and spoke more as an independent individual
than with the dependence of the patient.
I stayed calm and stated my case with civility,
and said that we were finished.
I explained that the Director of Patient Care here
now has a letter from me (wrote it this weekend
and slipped it under her office door this morning)
and I will abide by the requirements of the administration.

It's not a question of asking for money back,
and I made this clear:
the therapist, as long as she is
my 'Therapist of Record,'
will have what she is entitled to.
She may have the money.
She simply may not have any more of my time,
because I'm not going back to her.
If she and I have to be present together in person,
I want somebody else there with us.
And she has got to work out her part of the problem
separately from me.

The in-patient coordinator, whom I just spoke to,
tells me that a consultation arrangement is the next step.
A different therapist
will interview both me and my former therapist,
and this different therapist will then report to administration.

Now I have to go and keep an appointment with my social worker.
And, for a time,
I will have to go without therapy entirely.

Fortunately, my plan here,
at the maximum expense level at this moment,
provides the maximum support from nursing,
and so if I need help, nursing can help me in the interim.

Thanks for your positive thoughts.
This is uncharted territory for me
and I feel like I am walking straight into the dark.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 13 Apr 20 - 02:05 PM

The imbalance -- if there is a single word for it, that is the word --
between me and my now former therapist
has layer upon layer of complexity to it --
and that's just the part for which I myself am accountable.
Not even speaking of what the therapist's problem is.
And some of it is inappropriate to burden this thread with.

But getting to the deep festering part of my trouble,
and extracting the splinter of it,
has finally ended the impasse at which I have found myself,
therapeutically, for weeks.

My social worker, whose heart IS in the right place,
was an enormous help with this.
When he and I exposed the developmental issue at the heart of my problem,
and I burst into tears in his office,
the social worker said gently:
"Your therapy begins now."

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 14 Apr 20 - 04:03 PM

The Director of Patient Care at the clinic
interviewed me briefly today.
They have no problem with me requesting a switch,
however, it will take time.
The consultation, which features
a therapist different than the one known to
the patient requesting the switch/change,
is the next step.
The psychologist, have to call the person Doctor,
who is the Director of Patient Care,
has got a consultation therapist/interviewer in mind.
Only trouble is, this new therapist
is sheltering at home, and can't come in person.

And I don't have a computer of my own for ZOOMing.
Never mind, something will get worked out.
In the meantime, no therapy,
as I'm not going back to spend one more minute
with my former therapist,
and I'll have to lean on other support (like the nurses)
and carry my own weight carefully for a week or two.

At least the sun came out today.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 16 Apr 20 - 12:47 PM

I told you that the food is died-and-gone-to-heaven wonderful, right?

Lunch today was Swedish meatballs with egg noodles, side of roasted vegetables which were cauliflower and chopped asparagus with some onion.

I went back for seconds!
The buffet, you must understand, is no more.
Infection Control and buffet serveries are a poor mix.
So the long-suffering kitchen staff,
which has run the dining-room buffet for years now,
has to 'plate' our food -- on paper and plastic dishes and silverware
individually, which is completely new for them.

We can still drink out of beverage glasses that are synthetic, washable, and reusable.
Although there are also paper coffee cups
and ceramic mugs.

The social-distancing requirement has completely shaken up
the dining room,
where we used to sit eight to a table.
Same tables, now it is two to a table.
Ultimately it was requested -- and granted --
that all the now superfluous chairs be removed from the dining room,
because if the chairs are still around, then people will sit in them
even if people are too close to each other.
All the kitchen staff wear face masks in and out of the kitchen.

And there is a host of other little fussy changes
throughout the residence complex,
but I won't prolong this post with them.

I am so lucky to be here.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 17 Apr 20 - 09:21 PM

The clinic came one step closer to the pandemic crisis.
With congregate housing under a shelter-in-place order here,
only something urgent would take one of the patients off campus.
Well, shortly before Passover, one patient went
to the emergency room,
was tested, and discharged.
Said patient then went to a Seder observation which was held
in one of the little apartments on the clinic campus
for patients out of the residence and away from the nursing staff.

When this patient then developed 'symptoms',
the quarantine protocol went into effect
while waiting for the test results to be released.
The wait went over one weekend, which made it longer I think.
The patient was quarantined in their in-patient residence bedroom.
The others at the Seder who had had close contact with the patient
also were put under quarantine, meaning
that they stayed in their on-campus apartment building,
and had meals brought to them and everything.

This week the test results came back, negative,
and the quarantine was lifted altogether.
It was a very sobering reminder to all of us
not to be casual or careless, regardless of the fact
that negative test results
spared us being put through the whole pandemic treatment/protocol.


...yes, sometimes I am reminded of those
who need this clinic far more desperately than I need it.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 20 Apr 20 - 08:33 AM

Stay in, dude. We love you.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 21 Apr 20 - 05:55 PM

Glazed ham for dinner, which I have yet to sit down to --
better get some before it's all gone.
Check in later.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 22 Apr 20 - 02:04 PM

One week later --
after agreeing to be loaned a tablet (from the nurses' station)
and connecting by ZOOM to a clinician staying at home --
I have finally done what the administration required of me.

Just today I participated in a remote ZOOM session with
a senior psychotherapist who interviewed me, separately,
about what went wrong between me and my former therapist:
a 'consultation,' the formal name of it.
It was not easy to do, but it is done.

In the meantime, although I am in treatment,
I go without psychotherapy until it is possible
to switch psychologists, which ... will happen eventually.
I do hope that I am not in for
another ordeal like the past eight weeks.
But all the formalities are being observed in some way or other.

I regret that the past eight weeks were so difficult,
but I am still glad that I came and that I am here,
and I still want to stay and get on with things.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 25 Apr 20 - 09:22 PM

Some day,
I will look back on these first two months in treatment
and feel proud of my pro-active stance and actions.
It has to be said, in fairness,
that this clinic had staff at every level
who supported me and advised me in every choice I made;
such is the overall attitude here,
that one has the patient's best interests at heart.

I hope it will be borne out, as my treatment continues,
that going back to the drawing board two months later
makes it worth being here this long.

I have not disclosed to this thread
all the drama that I have been surprised by here.
I told you about the poor fellow with the terrible cough
( did I not mention his cough?)
who I suspected of yelling at the delivery men.
(It was actually the night nurse.)

He isn't here any more.
With the COVID-19 restrictions setting in,
he wanted to go home
to his pregnant wife and their little son.
So he pushed for discharge and left the clinic.

In the meantime,
I was sitting at this computer station late one evening
when two other patients
had this huge blow-up,
and they took absolutely NO notice of me sitting there
and hearing the whole sordid thing.

This took several weeks to be dealt with.
I did end up taking advantage of a staffperson's offer
to act as mediator,
and spoke with each of the two patients
about how startled and frightened I was.

I understand now, having discussed this with staff,
that these two patients,
who have been here far longer than I,
have an ongoing contentious and emotional connection to each other.
This isn't going to die down just because I spoke up.
But the upside is
that there is always someone to confide in
and to be supportive here.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 26 Apr 20 - 07:55 AM

Good on yer, keberoxu.

I have started having the itchies again, always a sign of stress with me, but from which I had not actually been suffering these last few years. Hope it is not a harbinger of worse to come...

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 26 Apr 20 - 01:53 PM

Do consider, dear Mrr,
that with the COVID-19 pandemic crisis weighing on us all,
and darned near powerless to do anything but wait and see,
ANYBODY could come down with the itchies, bless you.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 26 Apr 20 - 05:43 PM

Yeah, but I liked being *fine* eh!

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 28 Apr 20 - 11:04 PM

We all have to hang in there, in times like these.

I'm interviewing prospective new therapists
and I break down and cry every time.
My throat hurts from choking up.
I sure hope this is worth it.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 29 Apr 20 - 05:28 PM

Maybe this lower-the-expectations strategy works after all.
I finished up this week's interviews in my process
to switch to a different therapist at this clinic.
And today: success.
Interviewed a therapist about whom I knew nothing,
not even by reputation.
And we clicked right away: our personalities are compatible,
we are both direct to the point of bluntness,
she has a good serious work ethic,
and she is for real: we can connect on the spot.
So I reported to the Director of Patient Care,
and barring anything unforeseen,
I get to go back to the drawing board -- metaphor for admission --
and really get to work this time.
I was so dreading the decision among three different candidates,
but it has ended up being very simple.
It won't be easy, but at least it won't feel impossible,
as the previous relationship did.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Apr 20 - 06:20 PM

Sounds like you are stalled on a sandbar. While not technically afloat the sandbar keeps you up. Its better than sinking. The tide will help.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 30 Apr 20 - 11:09 AM

Donuel, I read you loud and clear.
Thank you!

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 01 May 20 - 02:12 PM

Today in the in-patient residence dining room,
my table was shared (social distancing and all)
with a fellow patient who has been here longer than I,
and who started out,
assigned to the same psychotherapist that I was assigned to --
and who also went through administration to switch clinicians.

This patient and I have two very different individual personalities,
and our interests greatly differ as well,
so we don't often have direct conversations,
even though we know each other well enough to speak to.

However, I broached the subject of terminating
with this particular psychologist here.
And we had quite a time comparing notes.
Although each of us took an entirely different approach
in attempting to make the relationship work,
then watching it break down, and giving up
-- it would be inappropriate to go into detail --
we both ended up with much the same impression
of this rather haughty-acting, remote, defensive personality
with which our former therapist confronted us in treatment.

We both think this person is in some kind of trouble:
putting up a front, putting on a performance,
and going on the defensive when
confronted about remoteness and manner.
And, although we two patients are very different,
we both found ourselves shouldering blame and guilt
for how badly the therapist relationship went,
which speaks to why each of us needs treatment, of course!

Each of us, in the formal process of changing clinicians,
had to go through a formal 'consultation'
in which a senior clinician, with whom the patient has no prior connection,
interviews the patient separately,
as well as a separate interview of the therapist.

And each of us two patients
had a different senior psychotherapist for this consultation,
and yet our consultant clinicians
agreed on the breakdown of the therapeutic relationship
and the accountability of the therapist.

This afternoon, for the first time since the initial interview,
my work begins with the new therapist.
We have a lot of catching up to do!
(I get a little weary thinking about it.)

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 04 May 20 - 08:42 AM

Good conversation. And anything that brings those tears out is good. Tears serve an excretory function- nobody can be well while their brain is stopped up.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 04 May 20 - 07:24 PM

Yes, it's good to be making progress at last.
That obstacle in the first two months was a struggle to get past,
but hopefully a lesson was learned from it.
There are leaves on the trees at last,
after all those months of bare branches.
Hope for new inner growth as well.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 07 May 20 - 06:56 PM

The young man who plays the 'cello ...
well, he made his offer
BEFORE the coronavirus pandemic.
He is still here, I am still here,
but nobody has been very music-minded of late.
I don't think he has touched his 'cello since then actually.

However there is a local chorus director (retired singer)
who comes two nights a week to the clinic -- he lives nearby,
and if I hear right, he walks here from his house --
to cheer up the patients with singalongs.
He has good classical-music credentials and experience,
so I got up my nerve and went in to the community room
where he was holding forth at the piano.
I let him stick to the piano,
and I did some singing --
Schubert, Schumann, Brahms.
I haven't made music like that in ages.
He was very gracious about my un-warmed-up singing.

I believe I just might have made a new friend.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 10 May 20 - 11:00 AM

Coming up to ten weeks at the clinic,
where admissions were suspended in mid-March
(I just barely got admitted before the pandemic restrictions).

Tomorrow, is the first week
that the clinic is processing possible new admissions.
Because this clinic is all about voluntary instead of compulsory,
right up to the in-person interview with the admissions director,
the potential patient can say No, and turn around and leave.
This week, on Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday,
there is a potential admission scheduled for each day.
Because this is a small clinic with a strong emphasis on
an extended therapeutic 'community,' in which
the patients contribute enormously to the 'community,'
the patients as a collective are watching this closely
and some of us have volunteered to assist, as we may, with
making the new patients welcome.

Because all of these first three applicants come to the clinic
from out of state
(one is from Texas which is a LONG ways from here),
each one must observe a two-week quarantine on the premises.
The clinic has hospital accreditation, albeit this place doesn't look like a hospital in some respects.
And so, with adjustments and adaptations here and there,
it is possible to turn the admit wing of the in-patient residence
into a quarantine area, and such has been done.
Three meals a day will be carried to the patients' little rooms.

I checked in, as one does, with an assigned nurse this morning.
She is one of the young healthy vigorous nurses
(some of the nurses are downright elderly), and
I commiserated with her about the extra work with the new admissions in quarantine.
I observed, "You nurses are going to be run off your feet, bringing them three meals a day."
And she laughed and minimized it, saying,
"it's not like we're breaking rocks!"

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 11 May 20 - 07:35 PM

Whew!
The clinic admitted a new patient for the first time in two months.
With the coronavirus orders and restrictions and everything,
first day of admissions is being done rather differently
than it was ten weeks ago when I showed up.

This young (30-ish) woman is a New York native, and as
we are not in New York and she is from out of state,
she must be isolated for fourteen days in the admit wing.
She can go from her little admit room
to the nurses' station on the same floor, and will do tomorrow.
But she can't join us in the dining room for meals.
And when she has therapy / psychiatry /social worker / clinical appointments,
she has to have the sessions remotely, using ZOOM.
I hope the two weeks are not unbearable for her,
it is so different than it was for me.

I am one of the volunteers who helped to welcome her today.
I've never done this before.
Normally on the first day, one of the patients will volunteer
to take the new patient on a tour of the clinic campus --
always it is a patient who is supposed to do this.
Actually, on my first day,
the volunteers were all signed up for patient-sponsor duties,
but the one who was supposed to give me the tour
went all space-cadet and never showed up ...
so an embarrassed member of the admissions staff
gave me a hasty tour, then handed me over to the dining room for lunch!

I've never forgotten that.
So I volunteered, fool that I am, to provide the tour,
so that the new patient today would have
what I missed.

Oh dear. I had a script to work with -- well, okay, an OUTLINE.
This had to be done remotely, as well.
The new patient is in her little admit room,
and she stayed there the whole time using ZOOM on her computer or smartphone or something.
The nurses' station loaned me a tablet,
since I have no smartphone or cellphone myself.
So there I was, marching around inside the residence building
carrying this tablet connected to a ZOOM session,
showing her the inside of the residence areas through the webcam
or whatever you call it,
and keeping a walking commentary running,
answering questions, and so on.
I was all out of breath when it was over,
and it ran maybe half-an-hour or forty minutes.

The poor kid! I hope I didn't embarrass myself TOO much
but she was very polite and good-natured about the whole thing.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 31 May 20 - 09:11 PM

The clinic has five 'newbies' now;
three of them stuck out their two-week quarantine
and are now circulating amongst the rest of us.
The other two are still in quarantine,
having arrived more recently than the first three.



Change of subject:
this is so hard, so very hard.
I can't say much.
Not happening to me, but to other patients.
These other patients have submitted complaints about, sad to say,
yet another patient who has been here for several years now.
The way this last patient is mistreating others
hits all of my deepest triggers.
The clinic's trouble-shooting protocol is slowly creaking its way
through the formal procedure.
As much as nothing has directly been done or happened to me,
I feel so fearful and angry and sad and distrustful and unsafe.

Well, something was bound to trip my triggers in treatment,
and if there is one thing I don't feel, it is surprise.
But I hate that this troubles me so deeply.
Am I talking about my feelings? You bet I am.
My therapist has heard about my feelings,
my social worker, my care coordinator,
the nursing staff (Emergency Services),
the residential program manager,
other patients,
group facilitators, and on, and on ...

I was so happy and trusting here, until this came out in the open.
Out in the open is, of course, where it ought to be.
Some of this on the part of the problem patient
had been covered up for months,
which makes me even angrier and more distrusting.

Donuel spoke weeks ago of a sandbar.
Now I've got more of a
undertow/riptide going on.
No, I'm not going to drown, obviously,
because I'm not entirely at the mercy of the current,
to continue the metaphor.
I am buoyed up to the surface,
there are helping hands,
there are lifelines.
I am far from abandoned.

And it still feels like a nightmare
from which I am desperate to wake up.
Thanks for listening.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Helen
Date: 01 Jun 20 - 01:12 AM

keberoxu, when you are in an undertow with other people around you who can talk you through it, help you to make sense of it, and advocate on your behalf, it's a completely different situation than trying to make sense of it all on your own.

Your triggers have probably been tripped, but if you evaluate your current situation, it may not be anywhere near as scary as previous experiences because of that support system and the increased knowledge and awareness that you have gained so far in your life.

I know I've said this before on Mudcat, but when I was in teacher training one of the lecturers said that learning is not walking around and around a circular path, seeing and doing exactly the same things over and over again. It's a spiral going upwards, so when you encounter a situation which you have been in before, you are different than you were previously.

Hopefully you have more awareness or knowledge, even if it feels like you wish you didn't, but every little bit of progress can help you to make better sense of each similar experience when it occurs until finally, hopefully you can walk through an experience with relative ease, recognising what is happening, and making decisions which have more chance of achieving a positive outcome.

By the time I was in a work situation 10 years ago and a bully was holding power over a lot of people, I recognised fairly quickly what the situation was, how the bully behaved, how his hangers-on behaved, why the managers let him get away with it, why other people did not complain about his behaviour, but also what actions I needed to take, and how much determination I would need, but also how it would affect me psychologically and emotionally, even if I won and he lost the battle. That's because I had encountered similar situations over many decades and gradually learned what I needed to know with each new experience.

It's a spiral. Onwards and upwards. Per ardua ad astra.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 01 Jun 20 - 10:22 AM

Buoy oh buoy, dearie!

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 04 Jun 20 - 07:50 AM

Floating this thread back to the waterline...

I googled "buoy jokes" and found some truly bizarre humor. Have some.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Jun 20 - 10:39 AM

Are you wearing masks?
You are fortunate to be insulated or isolated from some triggers in the larger outside world lately. In such a clinical enviornment one stressful person can seem magnified in significance.

Ha! Helen everythings a spiral over time from tiny DNA to the solar system's trip around the galaxy called the Milky way. As my hair gets longer it too is begining to curl. :^/

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 04 Jun 20 - 02:32 PM

In answer to the mask question:

If the entire congregate-housing complex, including the residential unit, had people who were ill, if there were active cases of people ill with coronavirus, then, likely, every person here would have a face mask.

The way that our congregate-housing clinic is complying with laws, orders, and requirements, is to ask patients not to leave the premises; and as patients continue healthy here, the patients restricted to the premises go mask-free.   

It is a different matter for staff. Staff do not reside on the premises; they commute to this congregate-housing campus from their homes off-campus. Staff are required to wear face-masks at all times on campus.

A recent exception has negotiated the social-distancing requirement. Two people who meet for an in-person consultation of some length, provided they have at their disposal a meeting space that is well ventilated, recently cleaned and disinfected, and has sufficient room for the two people to sit six feet apart or further: these two people, under these conditions, may carry out their therapy/treatment/consultation, as long as they stay apart, with or without masks according to their own choice.

The one time when patients in residence at this congregate-housing campus MUST put on face masks, is when circumstances limit the patient's treatment to in-person work in a smaller room. Thus, in a little office not as well ventilated, where the seating cannot be a full social-distancing length apart, both the patient and the clinician go through their treatment appointment wearing masks.

I can tell you that some of the clinic patients
are getting hard to live with for the excellent reason
that they have been separated from their families and loved ones,
unable to have them visit, much less to visit them,
for over two months now.
Phone calls and FaceTime/ZOOM just are not the same,
especially for patients who are parents of young children.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 05 Jun 20 - 03:08 PM

These days, in my treatment,
I am floating on a current of my own tears.
It's tiring, but
I have to trust that I'm making progress.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 05 Jun 20 - 04:46 PM

Not backsliding is progress. Even backsliding can serve a purpose, and thus also be progress. Hang in there, k.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 07 Jun 20 - 04:43 PM

Here at the mental health clinic,
the new-admissions side of business is gaining momentum
after suspension during two months of pandemic restrictions.
All five potential admissions, during the previous month,
accepted and were admitted;
three have completed their fourteen days of quarantine,
and are living amongst the rest of us patients
at the in-patient residence,
dining in the dining room with us, coming to group meetings, and so on.

Two more will complete their fourteen days this coming week --
one of them, tomorrow, I believe.

And we have two newbies being interviewed this week by Admissions,
and they will head for their quarantine this week if accepted.

The clinic's in-patient residence
had a lot of empty rooms/beds last month,
but if admissions continue at this pace,
it won't last long.

I have heard one of last month's admissions,
a man a little bit younger than I
with a spouse and children,
say that this institution is exactly the right place for him
and that he is inexpressibly grateful to be here.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Jun 20 - 04:55 PM

There is a psych philosophy that equates tears and such as an emotional discharge that eventually rinses and rids the psyche of distress and angst. I called it curing emotional constipation but it works for many.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 09 Jun 20 - 09:34 PM

Update on my post dated
7 May:

going great guns with the local musician who comes to the clinic
two evenings a week to share music with the patients,
usually one at a time.

He has classical music education and formation on the same level as mine, so
we are like peers together.
We take turns -- he plays the piano and I sing,
then I play the piano and he sings.
And it's even okay when we each hit wrong notes and have to
stop and start over again.

He seems as grateful for the chance to
run through high-level repertoire as I am.
One of these days, I think facetiously,
I had better meet his good wife,
so she doesn't get suspicious about the two of us
away from her house!

But then, I AM a mental patient, after all.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 13 Jun 20 - 08:20 PM

A moment of reckoning has arrived.
When the upsetting thing happened at the end of May,
I thought I had heard everything.
I was mistaken.

What is surfacing now, again, is not directly about me,
but about other patients in the in-patient population.
Something happened a year ago, which,
if it had not been hushed up in a particular fashion,
would have resulted in lawsuits and liabilities.
Now, of course, it is all coming out.
And I don't dare expose it here.
Again, it did not happen now, nor to me.
But there are patients who were here a year ago,
who are still here now,
and I tell you, some of them bear scars (metaphorically).

If I had known about this thing, when I came through admissions,
would I have accepted and entered treatment here?
Moot point now, it seems.

So much for the new-patient honeymoon phase;
it was sweet while it lasted.
Now comes the reality check.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 15 Jun 20 - 11:47 AM

Don't cash it yet!

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 25 Jun 20 - 09:00 PM

Don't let
they-who-must-not-be-named
get you down, Mrrzy.
I support you.


About me:
still here at the clinic.
As this particular state eases up on
businesses and local economies,
the department of mental health
is getting even more strict, curiously enough,
with "congregate housing" like this.

Used to be,
25 people, max, in a room;
now, it's a maximum of 10 people,
AND
they MUST wear masks, all of them.
This is inside the institution.

So, walking a fine line between
boosting the local economy
and
protecting the health of the citizens.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 26 Jun 20 - 11:13 AM

Good on yer, k.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Helen
Date: 30 Jun 20 - 05:39 PM

keberoxu, your music collaboration is very inspiring. I'm interested to know which music pieces you are practising, just so that I can imagine your mini-sessions more completely.

This week I saw a news item on TV about the issues surrounding using face masks in mental health environments, mainly relating to the difficulties in making personal connection with people who are under stress or emotional difficulties while having half of each other's faces covered. I was only half watching it and I can't find the article. I'll keep searching for it.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 30 Jun 20 - 09:14 PM

Well, Helen, since you asked,
I just surprised him with Flanders & Swann's
"The Elephant," about the Elephant's Nursing Home
and being psychoanalyzed.
Of course he was familiar with
"Mud, mud, glorious mud," however
in the USA, few are familiar with much more of F & S than that --
so this was new to him. He was thoroughly amused.

We also went through
"Oh! quand je dors,"
words by Victor Hugo and music by Franz Liszt;
and last week at this appointment, it was
"Epiphanias,"
words by Goethe and music by Hugo Wolf.

The latter is comedy/satire, about We Three Kings, the Magi.
Goethe has it:
They like to be feasted when they visit,
they like to drink well,
and they do NOT like having to pay the bill afterwards!
And anyway, they are "Off to see the Christ Child,
The Won-der-ful" -- oops, wrong movie --
anyway, since there is no star standing still overhead,
they must get back on their camels and follow that star now.
Very funny little marching song.
But being a Lied, an art song,
it is much tougher to execute than it is to listen to.

We've also done Schubert's "Der Musensohn," I forget the poet,
a rapid bouncy song about the itinerant singer who goes from place to place
cheering people up with his singing, and one of these days
he honestly would like to get back home where
someone is waiting for him, but his MUSE keeps him wandering.

It's a welcome break from psychotherapy, I promise you!
(The food, however, is still first-rate,
so I always show up at mealtime.)

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Helen
Date: 01 Jul 20 - 04:28 PM

Hey keberoxu, thanks for your music "Liszt". The only one I have heard of is the F&S song about mud.

I'm Lisztening now to "Oh! quand je dors". Beautiful!

I'll find the other ones too.

(I have some favourite Liszt tracks on a couple of CD's.)

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 01 Jul 20 - 05:24 PM

Flanders and Swann wrote "The Elephant" for
the singer Ian Wallace, who first recorded it;
the song may turn up on their Beastiary, or whatever that collection is, of their Animal Songs,
along with The Gnu, The Warthog, The Sloth, The Whale (Mopy Dick),
and so on.


Composers Schubert and Hugo Wolf are both Lieder composers,
and I haven't looked up online listening for those songs
but some of their songs, surely, can be listened to online.

Another one we looked at last night
(it was a busy half hour:

a French Mélodie by Ernest Chausson
called Le Colibri (The Hummingbird).

Right now, as I sit at the computer station,
it is thundering and storming outside.
I hope the power doesn't get knocked out
the way it did on Monday, two days ago.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Helen
Date: 01 Jul 20 - 06:04 PM

I've found them on YouTube.

I have to admit that this style of song is not my favourite to listen to, but I appreciate the beauty of it.

I'm thinking about refreshing the classical music thread that I started. Wow! I thought I started it a few years ago, but it was back in 2006. The older I get, the faster time flies.

Classical music - what makes you listen

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 02 Jul 20 - 03:59 PM

How fast fourteen years fly when you're Mudcatting, Helen!


Meanwhile, back at the clinic:
It was bound to happen. I have stuck out four months before
experiencing this for the first time.
Five days a week, a general meeting is held, by and for the patients themselves, although staff members frequently attend and are welcome to do so. Patients themselves chair/facilitate these weekday meetings. They are voluntary, no one is absolutely required to come [although the patient who is community-meeting chair is elected to that office during a term of time, and that patient had darned well better show up during their term].
I have not attended each and every weekday meeting, myself, during my four months here, so what happened may have happened already during that time and I was just conveniently absent back then.

It's not unheard of for a patient to get up and walk out, although it is discouraged.
The patient who did it today, however, lost their temper before walking out, so we witnessed an outburst of anger and rage during the meeting.
Well, this is a mental health hospital, after all, so why would this not happen?
I suppose the wonder is that I have not seen it happen sooner.

Nor did it surprise me which patient it was, and of course
I cannot divulge too much here. I can say,
this patient has been repeatedly warning us all of two things:
their issues with rage, anger, and temper, which they're working on;
and their growing frustration with certain conditions, let's just say
they are related to the pandemic lockdown restrictions and
an enforced separation from family.
This patient is hardly alone in that latter predicament.
Nor the only one with anger management issues.

It's just that the two combined in an explosive fashion today.
Nobody and nothing was hurt or damaged.
A few people were 'triggered,' not least the poor patient who stormed out.
It certainly made for drama, though.

I'm all right, as I could see this coming, for a start,
and I know how to stay out of harm's way.
I also grasp that in the long run this is a positive development,
and can be used in future to make things better.
The people who had a hard time with this incident, of course,
were the ones who tend to merge with other patients and
who have a hard time letting go once they engage --
some of these were shaken.

So we had fireworks, you might say, before July Fourth.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 27 Jul 20 - 08:52 PM

meanwhile, back at the clinic ...

there is actually a group, with the newly admitted patients,
forming of classical string players.
We do not have, sadly, a true string quartet.
That said, there are three now:
one violinist, one violist, and one 'cellist.
The three of them, when they get a free evening,
congregate after supper (and after the final therapy group meeting)
and they get their instruments out.

On one occasion I attempted something on piano with them,
and on other occasions I have simply listened to them rehearse.

At first there was a lot of sight-reading going on because
we didn't all know the same pieces.

There is an interesting arrangement of an existing piece,
the Bach concerto for two violins in D minor
-- or rather, of its opening movement.
Somebody took the second-solo-violin part,
and the bass line which the cello plays,
and did an ingenious merge, just with that opening movement:
the second-solo-violin part is transposed down an octave,
and blended into the bass line.
And thus, you end up with
a duet for violin and cello.
Not the same without an entire orchestra filling in the chords,
but still you get a spare, clean arrangement of the piece.
It actually works,
and every time the two of them play it, it sounds better.

There is also a Shostakovich Prelude, not very long, which is
a duet for viola and cello --
or, perhaps, a viola-cello arrangement of something different?

Anyway, those two players ran through that one.

Then there was the evening -- this was weeks ago actually --
when the violinist was not free, and the question came up, is there anything for viola, cello, and piano?   It's rare.
And predictably, what we came up with was an arrangement of a differently scored piece of classical music, and what a find we caught:


Opus 114 by Johannes Brahms -- VERY late opus number for him, he was an old man and a fully mature composer, at his best --
is scored for a trio of clarinet, cello, and piano.
And it is arranged with
the clarinet part played by the viola instead.
So we ran to a public-domain computer website
and printed the score and the parts out.

Being as it's Brahms, and ALL of us were sight-reading,
I suggested we attempt the two SLOW movements in the middle?
Well, my intentions were good, and it was still ...
erm ... in a way it was entertaining and fun, but
OH, how we butchered the Brahms! And we kept bogging down and getting stuck.

The other night, the cellist confided to me that although he has not practiced his cello part in the Brahms,
he did find time to pull up online sites where he can listen to the music, which of course he did not know before;
and he could see/hear that this is a beautiful piece of chamber music
and worth working on.

All this, in addition to the ongoing dramas of
treatment at a mental health clinic. It's a change of pace, anyhow.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Jul 20 - 10:44 PM

I know the concerto well. Once a new conductor at concert time decided to conduct in 2-4 instead of 4-4 to give it some spontaneous energy but the orchestra instead thought it was 4-4 so they played it twice as slow. When the soloists joined in they too went at a lugubrious molassas tempo. There was no hope so I stood up and did my best Jimmy Durante imitation and yelled "Stop the music, stop the music... Now lets play the hell outta this thing, Maestro" then the conductor did a furious 4-4 and we began again. Most people thought it was part of the act.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 28 Jul 20 - 04:55 PM

Fascinating...

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 30 Jul 20 - 11:53 AM

I concur, Mrrzy, fascinating on more levels than one ...

remember the patient who lost his temper and stormed out of a community meeting, which one is supposed not to do?
He is in serious trouble now.
I'm not going to say what substance he was 'using' but
suffice to say you're not supposed to use it, or other substances that compare to it.
He had been secretly doing so for weeks, right under our noses.
I'm not even going to specify if the substance is generally illicit or if it is legal past a certain age or whatever.
The point is, he is an in-patient resident living in close quarters with several dozens of other patients, and his actions affected us all, however indirectly.

Having avoided 'substance use' in general for the whole of my life, there is a lot about which I am ignorant.
I was just aware that this patient, always needy and dependent on interacting with others, was presenting in a way that was increasingly conflicted and complex.
With a change to his prescribed meds --
something that happens quite often in a clinic like this one --
he went through a downright euphoric period, and in fact he was insufferable for a while,
because he wanted the whole civilized world to know that he felt like life was worth living again, aargh, which is anything but considerate of fellow patients who may really still be struggling.

Then, with the improvement in his feelings and well-being, came the moments when he could no longer avoid looking at the really tough issues which were his excuse to abuse substances in the first place. And so, he took the path of least resistance, for weeks as I say, covering it up the whole time. And the way he presented, while hiding it, was a different presentation. His volatile temper got worse instead of better. However, instead of demanding attention and being needy, he became wary and guarded, holding people at arm's length or further. This is a troubling combination even to someone like me who does not know what to suspect.

Of course the patient population includes other recovering abusers of substances, and no one had been watching this patient MORE carefully than they had. One of them caught him out, not because he was obviously in an altered state, but because they caught him carrying a certain implement, and: "Is that a ***** ?"   Sooooooo busted.

Eventually these others will sort things out, but right now they are royally pissed-off with this patient, now that they can look back on the last few weeks and recall all the times they socialized with him and what he said, and how he said it, instead of coming clean.

This patient has not been discharged on the spot. He turned himself in, for one thing, after being caught out by his fellow patient. Other mitigating factors. This does not mean that he won't be asked to leave -- just, that it won't happen now if it does happen. First his case will go through a couple of weeks of reevaluation, for which there is a definite protocol and procedure. So whether he continues or whether he receives an administrative discharge, he will have the benefit of sustained, cooperative, care and attention from a whole integrated team of different specialists.

In my months here, I have witnessed this reevaluation process for two previous patients, both of whom were allowed to continue their treatment following the process; it was a wholly positive experience for both of these;
and for one of those earlier patients, whose parents had sort of dragged him here after years of having psychiatrists controlling him with addictive prescription meds, the reevaluation -- following a really scary "discompensation" incident -- was truly a turning point; now he is grateful for the attention that he received when his need was greatest, and he continues his treatment on an entirely different footing: not against his will, as when he was first admitted, but voluntarily and with gratitude and appreciation. That is a beautiful thing to watch, as unnerving as the incident was that was the catalyst for the breakthrough.
Time will tell, with this third patient, how things work out; and meanwhile the patient community is helping each other get to grips with the disturbance and the drama.

Although I am hanging in there, and my treatment is going well and I am working hard and productively at it, I'm starting to think carefully about life after treatment. Which I guess means that I feel safe enough to do so without doing it as an escape or an avoidance of reality. And only time will tell how that, too, works out.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Jul 20 - 09:52 PM

With the absence of migraine agony, my life feels worth living even more. Perhaps too much for timid souls. I'm pretty sure total trust is not healthy. chant- 'it just doesn't matter'
May you dispense with the useless agony of your choice.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 31 Jul 20 - 08:08 AM

Your user fellow-inmate sounds as if they really need to be there, k, so good that they weren't immediately banned, imo.

Meanwhile in other news my son is, as I write, in front of a magistrate for a decision on whether to commit said son involuntarily for longer than the 3-day hold he's already on. That is the independent evaluator's recommendation, and my fervent hope. I am also [after 5 1/2 months] no longer Completely Fine... Considering going back on meds. Sigh. It was a good run, though, and I do still feel *mostly* fine. Some physical zoominess akin to overcaffeination [I consume no caffeine but chocolate], my [mental? Metaphorical?] hamster seems to be getting out the exercise wheel again [I have named it Scaramouche], overuse of brackets, difficulty working on anything tedious... But I have been worried sick about my adult child, too. If he actually gets committed I will feel a lot better, and maybe it will all Just Go Away.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 02 Aug 20 - 09:56 PM

Tonight the four of us got together around the grand piano
and had at the Trout Theme and Variations again.
God help me, I sound SO BAD
and they are so nice to me.

The violinist discharges in about ten days' time to go back to school. So if we are going to perform this thing here, we have to do it soon, before we lose the violinist.
Don't know if it will happen or not --
but the violin player is game, and she will talk to somebody.


OH! I didn't tell you about the Trout?! Sorry ...
It's the Forelle Quintette, Forelle is German for Trout.
Franz Schubert. First, he wrote charming music to a truly atrocious poem
about how sorry the poet is to see the angler hook the trout.
Then, he took the charming tune and music
and wrote a theme and variations on it, with NO singing:
violin,
viola,
cello,
double-bass viol,
and piano.

Well, we don't have a double-bass player.
It's just the four of us.
So I play the piano part in one hand mostly
and in the other hand I alternate the double-bass bass line
and the rest of the piano part.
The classical music purists would have apoplexy.
But this makes it possible
for the violin, viola, and cello players, my fellow patients,
to play this spirited music,
and it's worth it to see them enjoying themselves and each other.

We're just doing the Theme and Variations which amounts to
one internal movement out of five movements total:
the entire Forelle Quintette is a long difficult piece,
especially hard on the seated rear end, I can tell you.
But this one movement doesn't last long
(for all the hard work we put into it)
and it's easy on the audience's ears
(if we don't utterly butcher it, that is).

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 04 Aug 20 - 08:16 AM

I tend to enjoy things that might cause apoplexy...

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 05 Aug 20 - 09:53 AM

Should you feel remotely curious about
Schubert's Trout Quintet,
the song "Die Forelle" on which it is based,
and the god-awful lyrics to the song,
there's a thread above the line titled
"my first performance in thirty years"
to document the musical side of things.

If we are actually going to perform with this violinist,
we have barely seven days to do so, as it turns out;
she's very young, she was admitted in May after school let out,
and the plan all along was for her to spend the summer in treatment
and then discharge in order to go back to school.
Which starts, if I hear right, very shortly.
So the best we can do:

is to organize a little performance here in order
to send the violinist off and say goodbye and good luck.
Still don't know if this will happen or not.
But we rehearsed at length this past Sunday,
and we may not be ready for prime-time
but we can probably get away with an
in-patient send-off here.
Oh, my nerves.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 16 Aug 20 - 01:50 PM

The 'first performance" thread in the above-the-line Mudcat Music thread section
will tell more about the performance
here at the psychiatric clinic,
which did happen and was well received, if far from perfectly executed.

The day after the performance, going to therapy and continuing
my usual weekday schedule of treatment,
my emotions, which are rather numb as a rule (depression),
were alive and kicking.
I think my therapist has never seen me as happy as I was in that session.
And then I had to sit through a patient-community meeting later that day.
Providentially, I didn't have to be in the meeting room.
The in-patient residence has provided a set-up to help with the meetings, which, before the pandemic and social distancing,
were in-person meetings with all the attendees crowded into one big room -- and these meetings happen five days a week, EVERY week.
Comes coronavirus and the attendant restrictions,
especially upon indoor gatherings of more than six people.

Now, at the clinic, these five-day-a-week meetings are
mostly in a "hybrid" format.
There is still a physical meeting room which is wired for ZOOM
and can have only a limited number of warm breathing bodies in it.
All the community members who have access to computers of their own
are encouraged to ZOOM into the five-day-a-week meetings from outside that meeting room.
And finally, fortunately,
the clinic facilities department had pity on some of us who can't ZOOM as we don't have computers.
A conference room, smaller than the meeting room,
was wired up for ZOOM with a computer and a large screen monitor.
And there, half-a-dozen people can sit in the room,
without computers of their own,
and ZOOM into that meeting without having to
cram into the big meeting room.

As Providence would have it, that day's meeting had low attendance
and I had that little conference room ALL TO MYSELF.
Which is why I felt free,
when all my buried anger came to life,
to sit there, with the door shut, and the ZOOM link on 'mute',
and shout SHUT UP! SHUT UP! at the ZOOM screen when
certain people who shall not be identified
were hogging the meeting time and doing all the talking.
The fact is that I am terrified of presenting my anger in front of others.
Had there been fellow patients in the room with me,
I would have kept my big mouth shut
and I would have sat there seething.

But I had the room to myself for the whole meeting,
and I could sit there insulting the meeting speakers
and talking furiously to myself
and letting the anger vibrate through me
without letting anybody else see how nuts I am.
It was simply wonderful.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 18 Aug 20 - 11:13 AM

The post in this thread dated 11 May describes
my volunteer efforts to welcome a newly admitted patient,
a big deal at the time because
this state was just coming out of the lockdown period,
during which clinic admissions were suspended for a good two months.

As it has turned out, the new admit described in the May 11 post
is the violinist in our chamber music group,
who ought to be safely back at university this week,
having discharged from the clinic.

We miss her, and her dry, deadpan sense of humor.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 20 Aug 20 - 06:18 PM

... and she misses us, as it turns out.
I never did get acquainted with her well enough
to ask what diagnosis she had,
for what she was being treated.

Having her e-mail address, I updated her with all the gossip since she discharged,
and I IMMEDIATELY received an e-mail response (she was probably using her smartphone to access her e-mail)
saying how badly she misses being at the clinic and in treatment and misses all of us!
Back at university, many of her classes are virtual
and she is spending a lot of time on ZOOM. Not very social.
And she is a fairly sociable young woman, and misses people.

She and I have since exchanged posts back and forth,
and we concur on how well the nurses do their work here at the clinic
and how under-appreciated their hard work is.
So when the chance arose, I told one of her favorite nurses
that I had heard from this former patient, and she was delighted.
When I told her that the former patient confessed
that she missed the clinic, and treatment,
much much more than she actually expected to miss it,
the nurse sighed knowingly:
"I knew it would be tough for her to adjust.
She has jumped from the fire-pit into the flames!"

Draw from that, if you will,
what conclusions you wish about
the presentation for which our violinist was here to have treated.
She is in another state at her university,
and it is hard to imagine how our paths will cross in future,
but who knows? Things might come to pass
in ways that I can't possible foresee at the moment.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 21 Aug 20 - 08:43 AM

Keep on truckin' k!

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 23 Aug 20 - 06:35 PM

Well, the patient who got caught/busted
is headed for rehab, which is to say,
transferring this week to a different institution.
One characteristic of this clinic,
although "dual diagnoses" turn up in applicants and admitted patients all the time and indeed are welcome,
is that this is no detox place.
Before an applicant with "dual diagnosis" issues may be admitted here,
there has to be a successfully concluded detox/rehab elsewhere.
I don't know which institution is this patient's destination.

Sadly, we are counting the HOURS until we see the back of this fellow,
because, well, as much as the patient needed to be here,
we all need some distance from this person,
who has worn out their welcome and then some.
Very bad aftertaste for a lot of us.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 25 Aug 20 - 05:41 PM

Reporting from the clinic, facemask in place
before the computer terminal.
One can only guess how much longer the coronavirus pandemic will keep us all, inside or outside the clinic, under siege.

Dreadful as it is, I am steeling myself quietly for
a second spike in COVID-19 infection nationwide.
Is nationwide the wrong term?
According to different regions within the nation,
the infection rate rises and flattens differently.

Here in New England things have, I guess, flattened somewhat,
but the infections could so readily flare up again,
and such might yet happen in the near future.
I'll be an inpatient here for more months yet,
don't even have a discharge date at this point.
Wonder if I will be "in" or "out"
during the dreaded second spike in infection rates?

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 27 Aug 20 - 08:03 PM

I feel superstitious about posting this, like saying it out loud.

Before treatment I have messed up so many times
when interacting with people,
expressing myself, saying things that I can't take back.

I've been here six months and I've been working diligently
to allow others breathing space, not to crowd or frustrate anyone.
There have been corrections and feedback from fellow patients,
usually welcome and helpful.

I've been at the clinic long enough to see patients come and go.
More often I have seen patients leaving who were here when I arrived.
And there has been no shortage of conflict, drama, misunderstanding, disappointment.
I hope I have been successful not to contribute to much to the problems.
Sometimes I have to know when to hold my tongue, honestly.

There is a lot of talk, in treatment and at large, at the clinic
about honesty.
The people who chatter the most about honesty, in fact
are likely to be the people
who hurt other people with their big mouths and quick tongues.
They leave hard feelings behind them when they go.

Is kindness or compassion dishonest?
Is it dishonest to keep one's opinion to oneself?
I ask myself these questions nearly every day.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 28 Aug 20 - 05:03 PM

Ooh *good* questions. Philosophers, chime in.

I don't consider myself unkind when I fail to respect people's ignorance. Especially nowadays, especially here in Murruca where respecting people's ignorance is how we *got* here.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 28 Aug 20 - 05:03 PM

Here being the covid mess, not murrica in general.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 28 Aug 20 - 08:18 PM

Neil Miller Gunn, more simply Neil M. Gunn, of Scotland,
is a writer whose book,
The Green Isle of the Great Deep, fascinates me.

"For love is the creator
and cruelty is that which destroys."

And he has written elsewhere, though I could not locate the quote,
that cruelty is the greatest -- hmm, what?
the greatest something ... evil maybe?

And the paradox on which I meditate, is that
honesty can be cruel,
and kindness, dishonest.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 28 Aug 20 - 09:26 PM

Found it!


... cruelty is the worst of all human sins.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 28 Aug 20 - 10:46 PM

Nicely fished!

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Charmion
Date: 29 Aug 20 - 09:44 AM

I, too, suffer from a sharp tongue and a tendency to shoot from the lip.

I have often read that personal remarks should meet a three-point standard: Is it true? Is it helpful? Is it kind?

These qualities are highly subjective. My fact is the other guy's blatant lie or misunderstanding. I may think a piece of advice is helpful when the recipient takes it as sheer meddling. And kindness, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.

Usually, when I have thought it through, I change the subject.

How about them Blue Jays?

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 30 Aug 20 - 01:30 AM

Maybe someone can help out Charmion and me with this one:
my recall fails me, but I remember
learning THINK years and years ago.
What's missing here?

T is for, is it True?
H is for, is it Helpful?
I ?
N ?
K is for, is it Kind?

Important and Necessary, perhaps?

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Thompson
Date: 30 Aug 20 - 05:50 AM

Good stuff.

Maybe, too, the secret is not to blurt out reactively from within your own prejudices, but to see the other person, and so sideline your own reactive boorishness. Hard to do, though.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Charmion's brother Andrew
Date: 01 Sep 20 - 10:37 AM

"How about them Blue Jays?"

Charmion, should we not both stick to blue jays? :)

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 01 Sep 20 - 04:06 PM

Hi, Andrew! Nah.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 01 Sep 20 - 06:12 PM

Well, you can forget about the Red Sox, I fear;
the Yankees did quite a number on them this season.
Now the locals are eyeing the Boston Celtics,
pronounced 'seltics with an s',
to see if basketball will be any more gratifying.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Charmion
Date: 02 Sep 20 - 10:25 AM

I would much rather watch the avian kind of blue jay, to be sure.

Their performances take place free of charge in the tree outside our bedroom window, and are not punctuated by the stadium organ and snatches of rock music played at ear-busting volume.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 03 Sep 20 - 11:37 AM

Spending the Labor Day holiday weekend here in the clinic,
and grateful for it.
After months of procrastination, however,
earlier this week I had to take my car
and get it serviced,
which meant driving out of town.
I was so relieved to get the car fixed and come on back.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 03 Sep 20 - 02:07 PM

Ooh, your first outing?

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 03 Sep 20 - 09:56 PM

Second time out, in truth.
In July, before several of us patients began
making classical music together,
I drove back to the apartment which I continue to rent,
in order to get some summer clothing
which I didn't pack out at admissions in late February.

Both times I was relieved to return to treatment.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 07 Sep 20 - 07:58 PM

It's a positive thing, apparently, when people come to group
and talk about suicide there for the whole meeting ...
as opposed to keeping the issue to themselves.

My only real contribution to meeting this evening
was to mention the despair that goes with a long-term pandemic.
Interesting how that dovetailed with the suicidality topic.
What gave me personally a moment of relief was that
one of the group members who had spoke resignedly about suicide
was able to move beyond resignation, with the new topic,
and express vivid rage and anger about the pandemic.
Maybe this is misguided on my part, but it seems to me
that where there is anger, there is, in a sense, hope.

It's the fellow patients who show no emotion about anything
whom I fear for.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 15 Sep 20 - 09:34 PM

Meanwhile, back at the clinic ...
better not to dwell on the particulars of the latest drama.
Suffice to say that there is communication which the higher-ups ought to have passed on, about how we are required to minimize the risk of infection ON THE CAMPUS and in the common areas,
which, well, somebody in administration dropped the ball somewhere.

A certain percentage of us patients on campus just discovered said information/decisions this very week,
and these decisions went into effect here three months ago.
There are a select few who knew about this thing.
Nobody thought to tell the rest of us.
But it blew up in the last few days, and some of US blew up as well.
As in,
When were you going to get around to informing the rest of us?

It will sound so trivial if I spell it out. I won't --
i've said enough.
The worst of it is that failure-to-communicate thing.
These are stressful enough times for the healthy people.
We have people here with presentations ranging from
high anxiety to suicidal ideation, getting intensive treatment,
and some of us really, so to speak,
freak out when we get a nasty surprise like this one.

We feel betrayed and we wonder whom to trust, generally speaking.
Of course there are individuals on staff who are
universally trusted, because they have proven themselves,
like the very best of the nurses at the nurses' station.
One of the nurses who retired, this very summer, after working here for thirty-seven years (!),
said on her last day, to this small huddle of patients
who lingered around her, unwilling to see her go:
"You have my utmost respect." And we believed her.

It's those managers and coordinators and office administrators
who pass the buck and cover each other's you-know-wheres,
that's who we are upset with just now.
Things will be negotiated, they always are;
it's just that right now emotions are running really high.
Thanks for listening.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 17 Sep 20 - 10:00 PM

Feeling like somebody pulled the plug.
Actually, when someone greeted me with
the how-are-you-doing,
what I told them today was,
I feel like the pencil that wants sharpening --
worn down to a nub.
Such fatigue and weariness.
And so, to bed.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Sep 20 - 10:25 PM

You sound pissed off. Thats what healthy people do when intimidation, or lack of communication or trust occurs. When you are sure you can trust yourself you can tell them where to go and go into the world, as diminished as it is for everyone now. Wise people can't be intimidated or harrassed or pissed off. Dissappointed maybe.
Anyway it feels like I'm trespassing on your diary.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 17 Oct 20 - 08:19 AM

I'm still in treatment at the clinic.
Will be for months more, unless something unforeseen occurs.
For now, it's all right.

Not sure, though, if I can manage to vote this year.
At this rate, probably not.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 17 Oct 20 - 05:15 PM

Yeah, mad is a lot better than apathetic.

Or maybe I should say angry, heh heh.

Les Barker said something like depression is just anger without enthusiasm.

Nice to see this thread back.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 19 Oct 20 - 03:45 PM

The chief in-patient residence at this clinic
does, indeed, store holiday decorations of different types in its storage room boxes and such.

All the Halloween decorations came out yesterday afternoon,
and now the place is groaning under their weight, almost.
The Facilities/Safety supervisor was in the residence lobby
at lunchtime, evaluating the risk of fire hazard. Seriously.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 20 Oct 20 - 09:14 AM

What about suicide hazards? I ask seriously. Depending on what is being used for decoration; my last place wouldn't have allowed most stuff.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 20 Oct 20 - 09:38 AM

Yes, Mrrzy, I take your meaning -- seriously.
Well, this clinic, although it has to meet the accreditation standards of a hospital,
does not have a locked unit/ward.
That makes the place, I would say, vigilant after a different fashion.
This clinic has to have good close well-working relationships with the hospital at the county seat, up the road, which DOES have one or two locked units.

As to the decorations themselves, hmmm:
cardboard flat skeletons; big plastic three-dimensional skeletons;
inflatable pumpkins; plastic Jack-o-Lanterns;
some of the skeleton bones are hanging off of fake plastic chains that have been strung from the second floor landing so they
are hanging next to the staircase and the bannister ...
let's see: big phony spiders in big phony spiderwebs ...
I don't see any other hanging stuff,
I don't see how the phony chains, which look very breakable and lightweight,
could be used for suicide...

yes, interesting questions.
All these decorations came from the clinic itself, stored away in a box by housekeeping/maintenance from year to year.

Yes it's a good question, and
one that I had not thought through until this moment.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Helen
Date: 20 Oct 20 - 02:39 PM

At my last ever workplace i.e. before I retired, a group of people in a different area to mine decided to decorate for Halloween and went OTT (over the top) with dark and ghoulish props like pretend dead bodies and fake blood etc. It was set up like a murder scene. They were asked to remove a lot of the items because it was not good for workplace morale. I saw the display before it was removed. I realise that they thought it was a clever idea, but it wasn't appropriate for a workplace. Especially a government workplace with strict guidelines on what is or isn't appropriate.

As a result, I interpreted Mrrzy's comment in relation to the possible effect of dark and ghoulish decorations on our psychological state, rather than as potential tools for self harm.

Having said all that, I'm not into Halloween at all. It's mostly viewed here as an unwanted American intrusion into Aussie culture. Sorry!! :-D

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 22 Oct 20 - 09:44 AM

Oh, no, I meant where I was would not have allowed plastic inflatable anything or chokable-on spiders or anything I could have used to kill myself back when it was all I could think of, which is why I was there.

The ghoulish death stuff would have been great, though. When I was obsessively thinking about death I would have relished a societally-acceptable reason to do so, and especially to have others join me. As it was, it was isolating.

Hope your staff is monitoring, keberoxu, and that you and your fellows enjoy yourselves as much as you can!

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 22 Oct 20 - 06:56 PM

The fake spiders, I hasten to explain, are too humunguous (sp?)
to fit in ANYBODY's mouth. They can be measured in MANY inches.
You might bust your jaw just trying to cram them between your teeth ...
(poor Senoufou!)

Well, something actually did get taken down, and
it wasn't what I would have stopped to think of:
there were "fairy lights", as they call them in the UK,
like Christmas decoration lights, on a long electric cord,
except these were orange with black Halloween decorative touches.
The patients who did the Sunday decorating
had wound the "fairy lights" around a stair bannister.
The lights are gone now,
and the bannister is once again un-adorned.

Human skull decorations in every conceivable size are sprinkled about, however,
and somebody could more easily choke themselves
on one of the tiniest skull thingies, now I think of it ...

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 22 Oct 20 - 10:14 PM

Tell the admin. Better fewer naked skulls than fewer living heads.

But it sounds like fun, enjoy!

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Oct 20 - 04:27 PM

It looks like some of the cable channels have decided that wall-to-wall holiday movies is the cure for what ails us. I'm seeing ads about them starting this weekend. Most of those movies aren't worth watching, but every now and then a good old one pops up.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 25 Oct 20 - 04:51 PM

Well done, SRS. If you want to use this thread to push down the treacle, I'm all for it, thank you so much.

Hmmm. Treacle, and entertainment.

Two successes that come to mind are:

the Dormouse, in Lewis Carroll's Alice in Wonderland
... "it was a TREACLE WELL."

Discworld, courtesy of Sir Terry Pratchett.
Many many layers and facets has the Discworld.
On the one hand, you have got four elephants standing upon ... erm ...
what are they standing upon again?
The back of a cosmic tortoise?
Or is the tortoise on the backs of the four elephants?
You must realize, fellow Mudcatters, that
here at the mental health clinic
I have no Discworld and no Terry Pratchett books so I can't look it up.
But then you have Ankh-Morpork and environs,
where there are not merely treacle wells,
but TREACLE MINES! Remember the treacle mines?

I'm wondering if Pratchett didn't start with
Alice in Wonderland's Dormouse, and decide,
Well, if Lewis Carroll can write about treacle wells,
then I shall write about treacle mines. So there.

And I end with the recollection of the sleepy dormouse singing
twinkle twinkle ...
twinkle twinkle ...
twinkle twinkle ...

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Oct 20 - 05:05 PM

I did pick threads where there was actually something to say, otherwise it would be as bad as the one being pushed down the page. :)

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 25 Oct 20 - 05:16 PM

But hopefully they are treacle-free threads to begin with.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 27 Oct 20 - 07:48 PM

In spite of everything, I cast my vote amongst the other early voters in my town.
I had a weekend to drive from the clinic back to where I live,
so I looked up the early-voting schedule for this year's election
which schedule can be referenced on the Internet.
Turned out that early-voting hours had been arranged
for Saturday afternoon and Sunday morning!

So I showed up at Town Hall, duly face-masked,
and there was a policeman on duty by the voting booths.
I filled out my ballot and signed the official envelope, and I was done.
Then headed back to the clinic, which feels more and more,
these days, like my home, than my apartment does.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 Oct 20 - 11:19 PM

That vote should give a hefty boost to your psyche!

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 28 Oct 20 - 06:29 PM

Good on yer keb!

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 30 Oct 20 - 11:41 PM

Well, the predictions of a second pandemic spike
appear to be coming true,
and the clinic administration and staff
are talking about another
'shelter-in-place' -- in other words, another lockdown --
before year's end.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 01 Nov 20 - 04:05 PM

Well, the laugh is on me, this time.
I am in my bedroom here; I let myself into the room using my room key on its keyring with the little plastic room-number tag.
So I have not locked myself OUT of my room,
as I am in my room, however:
I can't find the key.
I'm taking the room apart, I know the key is here SOMEWHERE,
but can I find the key? NOWHERE.
Emptied and shook out all the tote bags, handbags, luggage, pockets of everything ...
the only thing left to do is to strip the linens off the mattress, and inspect the stripped bed and the sheets, spread, blanket, pillows and pillowcases ...

I just picked up the room phone, and reported to the nurses' station
that I'm in my room and I can't find my room key.
Do I ever feel STOOPID.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 01 Nov 20 - 09:41 PM

... and, in fact, it was only after stripping the bed
that I looked at the mattress sitting loosely
in an ill-fitting wooden bed frame,
and saw the key lying inside the wooden frame,
above the floor.
I had of course crawled all over the floor looking there for the key.
No wonder I couldn't find the thing.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 02 Nov 20 - 10:13 AM

I am reminded of my nephew losing his keys and not finding them though he had taken the cushions off the armchair he'd conked out in and thoroughly searched, then months later picked up the armchair to carry it upstairs and it jingled. The keys had fallen through an invisible and impalpable hole and were *inside* the armchair, not just under the cushions.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 03 Nov 20 - 06:45 PM

Oh, the drama ...
in a way, it's remarkable to have been here for eight months, and not have previously witnessed what just happened.
We were having supper, some of us, in the dining room, when one patient collapsed, hitting the floor practically head first, and really hitting their head HARD on the floor.

It was a seizure, of course, and a bad one.
The ambulance just pulled away from the clinic, taking the patient to the ER and possibly a hospital admission. It took the ambulance a while to get out here. In the meanwhile the dining room was cleared, we all have our dinners on trays so we could pick up and empty the room quickly; it was simply to give the patient some privacy while about four nurses held the person steady and saw to it that no further harm was done. All the way down the hall, away from the dining room, I could hear the person's heels drumming heavily into the hardwood floor of the dining room.

If I wanted to, which I don't, I could not tell you much background on this patient, as I cannot do with many of my fellow patients. Part of being in long-term residential in-patient treatment here, is that one tries to be considerate and discreet. It's a delicate balance between privacy and secrecy. I was not aware that this particular person had a condition that included seizures in their presentation, although it had come out that this is not the person's first hospitalization.

Such diversity even within what is a small clinic and a limited number of patients. Obviously some of us have really serious chronic issues and have much to endure, with a lot of suffering in our pasts. And we all have such different ways of living with ourselves. I don't see why the patient who had the seizure, won't be welcomed back in time, because this patient was working hard at treatment and is not ready to end treatment -- and had not done anything wrong. On the other hand, there are dual-diagnosis patients included, and a few of these people, coping with addiction as well as other conditions, can be remarkably self-involved and waste a lot of time, their own time and others' time as well. Only this week I watched two of these acting out. One turned out to have alcohol in their bedroom, definitely a violation of the rules, and has been discharged and packed off to rehab. The other one doesn't abuse substances in their bedroom, but they are so demanding and hostile towards the nurses that they are just impossible to reason with -- if this person stays the course, I will be surprised.

Stressful times for us all, and humbling to take notice of the situation in this clinic where some people are at their most powerless and vulnerable. That's enough for the moment ... thanks for listening.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 04 Nov 20 - 12:06 PM

Seizures are terrifying to witness and must be awful to recover from.

Stayed up till after 3 last night, got up today and listened to all of Waiting for the Hero by our own darlin' Anne Lister / Tabster, and wept absolute buckets. Now I feel better.

...and teach my children's children to love my father's enemy...

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 06 Nov 20 - 09:20 PM

My needed service to my car could not be done all at once.
The trip away from the clinic, detailed several posts back,
was the first installment.

This weekend into Monday (first thing Monday morning) is
the second appointment to have my car serviced.

This time it is a manufacturer's recall for defective safety-belt mechanisms.
Not something I want to take chances with.
Also we will fit in part of a service-schedule tune-up and check-over.
Then, if all goes according to plan,
I pay my bill, get in my freshly-serviced car, and drive
STRAIGHT back to the clinic on the other side of the state.

The scariest part, after all, is servicing the car
so close to the Boston area -- near where I rent/live.
But a little bit of relief came my way today.
Massachusetts has just altered their INTERPRETATION of metrics --
not the numbers themselves, mind you, those stay the same,
but the INTERPRETATION has been altered.
And this more subtle and refined, less "blunt-instrument" calculation
results in an interactive map of Massachusetts municipalities
which still shows all the numbers and percentages,
but changes the color coding around.
Grey/White for a number below a certain ratio, the least infection.
Green for a low number/ratio.
Yellow is higher.
Red is highest.

On the old map, my residence town,
as well as the town where the car is being serviced,
both were RED.
On the new map, they are both yellow, not red.
So, nobody is lying to me or concealing anything,
but the interpretation is more flexible.

I listened to an ALL-THINGS-CONSIDERED broadcast with
a little piece inserted for the Massachusetts area
from the station hosting the NPR broadcast.
And the little Massachusetts piece explained
that the number of new cases of COVID-19
is now being balanced/ratioed against the population of each community,
which interpretation was not being used before.

So the coronavirus is definitely out here,
but it's easier to see which areas have more concentration
and which towns still have mostly test-negative citizens.

I'm posting this update from the hotel where I am staying
near the auto service department/center
where my car will be fixed on Monday morning.
Of course it will be a relief to get back to the clinic --
and even greater relief, all told,
should my car be so thoroughly serviced
that it will be several more months
before it needs attention like this again.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 10 Nov 20 - 10:38 PM

Well, the recall replacement parts order had yet to be delivered.
The car got the oil changed and stuff.
The recall service must be scheduled in the future
after the parts arrive at the service department.

Back at the clinic and having a very rough evening.
Dis-regulation, they call it here.
Miserable, I call it.
I just read that Sinead O'Connor, having planned a tour,
has called the tour off in order to enter in-patient treatment
for trauma and addiction.
If she feels any worse than I do right now,
then she needs help very badly.
I hope she gets what she needs.
I hope my treatment works.
And gets to me feeling better before the end of everything.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 11 Nov 20 - 01:44 PM

Getting help is always a sign of strength.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 21 Nov 20 - 09:22 PM

Back at the clinic, and had supper in the dining room.
Mashed potatoes:
the potatoes had been chopped up with their skins/coats still on them, and although the mashed places were creamy and even, lumps of solid potato from the big chopped-up chunks were still in place ... with the torn-up potato skins still attached. Which made the mashed potatoes even more tasty.
The green beans may have been frozen, but they certainly did not come out of a can/tin. They had been steamed, and the haricot beans were thoroughly cooked without being wilted and soggy.
Whatever cuts of beef were ground to make the meatloaf were extremely lean cuts. The seasoning was savory, and the ingredients had just enough fat and starch to make the meatloaf even and light, without making it too greasy.
One of the simplest and most delicious dinners of my long life.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 24 Nov 20 - 09:12 PM

It's unbelievable what you can get used to.

The patient who is prone to seizures has
a strange tendency to have them at suppertime
in or around the dining area/pantry/common area.
It happened again tonight,
and there were one or two nurses there right away.

It's just so weird to be sitting there eating a fish supper
and suddenly,
I hear the hammering of feet kicking the floor
as the patient goes through another episode...

I picked up my supper tray and walked my dinner
to my bedroom
so as not to listen to the percussion serenade.
That sounds terrible.
But again, it's unbelievable what you get used to.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 27 Nov 20 - 01:05 PM

Just overheard what I can only describe as a temper tantrum;
I'm sitting at the computer lounge in the residence breezeway/"Connector"
which is like a concierge station,
one can hear everything in both the new annex and the old building.
And somewhere very near the breezeway,
another patient made a scene.

Now, this is NOT the same as a seizure!
We all have witnessed enough of those in the past month.
No, this was somebody who flopped down on the floor
and bawled like a very small child.
Suffice to say that the patient
is NOT a very small child,
just behaving like one, inside an adult body.

I have to hand it to the nurse.
She was thoroughly professional with this adult patient,
talking in a calm cheerful voice,
letting the patient speak about what they were bawling about,
listening and encouraging the person for several minutes,
and then saying in the same calm cheerful voice:
"NOW, GET UP."

Let me tell you,
the nurses work hard for their money around here.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 05 Dec 20 - 09:40 PM

It's been a challenging week.
I have been expressing my anger and my attitude that
sometimes this place feels emotionally unsafe.
I get a lot of push-back.
I have not backed down yet.
However, I am discouraged enough that I have gone silent now.
I am being extremely careful now of whom I speak with.

I have to be here through the holiday season pretty much.
But I am already considering how much longer I can tolerate
living in a place where every luxury is available,
and everything you want may be asked for,
but you might have to take your business elsewhere
to find what you really need for your treatment.
From now on I have to take care of number one,
and let others go their own way.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 06 Dec 20 - 09:57 PM

Careful is good. Stifled is not.

I am beginning to think carbs which are not in chocolate put me in a bad mood.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 22 Dec 20 - 03:38 PM

I wish things were not as they are, sometimes.

Took my younger son, the one with all the issues, some solstice prezzies.

No thanks, not even a smile. He accepted them, though.

But I would have liked an acknowledgement.

And I would have loved a gift.

Sad, but not *depressing* so that is something.

And the quarter of a Valium before seeing him helps.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 24 Dec 20 - 04:22 PM

This is one heck of a mixed blessing of a holiday season.

Our patient population has no shortage of adults who cut themselves.
I venture to say that there are some self-harm patients histories
that I don't even know about, to add to the ones I do know of,
since I'm not in a position to be well acquainted with all of us.

This week, however ... of all the distressing incidents here
during my months in treatment, this puts everything else in the shade.

She's still alive, as best I can make out, but she seriously attempted to damage herself permanently --
she did it with a knife that she got her hands on someplace.
Having harmed herself, and shortly afterwards the nurses got to her --
she was being closely watched already --
the ambulance was called, and off she went to the county seat,
miles up the highway, which has
a big full-service hospital with one or two locked units.
She has been there since Tuesday.
And I reckon that she will not be back here, very unlikely,
as her actions are a violation of one of several things that
one agrees not to do upon admission:

substance use, especially NOT to give substances to other patients;
sexual relations with other patients;
and self-harm, that one agrees that if one feels the urge to injure themselves, one goes to nursing right away and speaks up,
rather than actually cutting themselves.

Seriously, had she since died, the whole patient population would have heard about it, because news is travelling like wildfire, and so are
all manner of rumors, some of which had to be squashed
by announcements during community meetings.

So it's anyone's guess what happens after release from the locked ward at the big hospital:
will they send her home to her relatives?
will she go into a state institution (she's already been through that in her history)?
transfer someplace different?
But after this violation, I fear we have seen the last of her at this institution.

To add insult to injury,
there are fellow patients in patient government office positions
of maximum exposure within the collective of the patient community,
who are passing judgment on this, their former fellow patient.
Now things are already ugly here amongst the patients,
there are developments over the past two months which
I thought better of reporting to this thread,
because it's too sickening when patients bully each other verbally or in any other fashion.
But the verbal aggression in the patient community is getting so bad
that I have dropped out of patient government completely after
finishing a recent term of service.
It's the first time, since the month of my admission,
that I have not been serving in patient government committees in any way, shape, or form.

So I have stayed away from the (admittedly voluntary) community meetings and the group sessions.
But my fellow patients know me well enough from my past service,
that when I interact with them in the common areas of the patient residence,
they will volunteer the latest updates, I don't even have to ask.
So I am hearing second-hand, at best, about
how the community meetings are being dominated by fellow patients
who are highly opinionated, strongly biased, deeply insecure,
and who compensate for their insecurities by dominating every conversation.

And this week, when fellow patients speak up in support of the unfortunate former patient who cut herself and
is now in hospital,
OTHER patients interrupt them, shout and scream at them,
pile on to them, and overwhelm the entire proceedings with
their opinions about the hospitalized person's commitment to treatment --
as though this troubled person were attacking this institution on purpose,
and not acting from a sense of utterly desperate isolation,
which is my take on what happened.

I don't have to show up and listen to something so contemptible, I tell you, I really don't have to.
There is a culture at this clinic which doesn't just allow patients to verbally walk all over each other,
it rather promotes their doing so.
I have seen it happen too many times during my treatment here.
And that is one big justification for my disengaging from the patient community, as a collective,
and stepping away from patient government service.

It's roughly ten months I have been here,
and I have declared at periodic intervals that
I question the emotional and psychological safety of
the patient community at this institution.
The utter tragedies occurring this week --
I won't even speak of the OTHER patients who resorted to self-harm and who went to nursing for help recently --
serve only to confirm that something is,
to quote Shakespeare,
rotten in the state of Denmark.

The things that are good here, are very good indeed.
But the things that have gone wrong are inexcusable and indefensible.

No, I'm not running away this time.
I'm going to keep a low profile during the holiday weeks, staying here and staying in contact with staff as required,
and I'm going to take advantage of the holiday period
(when many of the clinical appointments are canceled anyhow)
to think long, hard, and carefully about
how my treatment ought to transition and step down
and get me moving back into the outside world.
Because, so help me, I deserve better than this.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 25 Dec 20 - 02:00 PM

Yes, k, indeed, you certainly do.

Have strength. You are worth it.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 26 Dec 20 - 02:32 PM

My depression is suddenly worsening.
Nightmares have replaced nighttime dreaming,
and all the nightmares point to the helplessness and despair
that are presented in depression.

I'm afraid it will take something more than
a change in my dosage of meds
to intervene with my depression.

I am confident that I will survive this crisis,
but I am not so confident of how
my relationship with this instution will survive this crisis.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 26 Dec 20 - 03:43 PM

Oy, k, wish I could visit you!

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 28 Dec 20 - 02:58 PM

I'm feeling better now.
There were a few rough days and nights,
but I am back on form.
Most likely will not need to increase meds dosage.
May be saying this too soon,
but feels as though I have bounced back,
and am not stuck.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 29 Dec 20 - 07:08 PM

Good to read, k.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 31 Dec 20 - 12:45 PM

This has been one heck of a year.
It's ten months I've been at this clinic.
The self-governing committees and activities
of the collective body of patients
has been the most heartbreaking experience for me.

One-on-one work with clinicians and therapeutic staff
has been the most satisfying part of my treatment,
although it took time and trouble
to switch from an unsatisfactory therapist and pharmacologist
to new clinicians with whom I am happier.

So, not a total loss: far from it.
Still, I am going into the New Year with a lot of sadness and disillusionment,
and seriously calculating the conditions
by which I can transition off the clinic campus.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 08:23 PM

This week, the bedrooms at the in-patient residence
began getting re-wiring for the telephones there.
Including my bedroom.

The job took two days in my bedroom alone,
not because of what my room is like,
but because they checked the cables going from my room
through the wall down to the main electrical connections below.
And found cable with rotting wires in it,
so the cable had to be replaced ...

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 01:20 AM

That sounds like a good thing.

"Is this supposed to be a good thing, Miri?"

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 17 Jan 21 - 04:43 PM

Last week there was another failure-to-communicate deal
from staff to patients.

Noise of the conversational variety is still going on
about the patient who was kicked out one month ago:
more generally, this patient has become representative of
all the self-harming presentations amongst all the patients,
and this is a significant percentage of all of us.
Though I say it who shouldn't,
self-harm is not one of my issues --
I have issues, all right,
but I don't cut myself etc etc, as some do,
and I do not have intrusive suicidal thoughts as some have.

So, a communiqué which I will not quote here, went out,
a very bureaucratic memorandum-sounding thing,
in writing and posted where all could see it.
And to boil it down to the fewest possible words,
the staff (group facilitators and program managers, as opposed to
psychiatrists or psychotherapists or social workers)
demanded of the patients:
Help us help you.

And the response from many of the patients is ... unfit to print.
And I for one do not blame them one bit.


At this time a little over a year ago,
when I was admitted to this clinic,
I freely said that I dreaded leaving, that I was afraid to leave.

A year later,
I am afraid to stay.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 17 Jan 21 - 06:23 PM

Oh, dear. I can't think of anything helpful to say, but I wish I could help. You have been a sweetheart to me.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 20 Jan 21 - 02:49 PM

I'm going to show up for one of the infamous
Community Meetings today, heaven help me.
Because I probably ought to actually say something,
short and simple.
I will catch all kinds of flack for saying it, as well.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 20 Jan 21 - 09:15 PM

It made me feel better to see
Senator Bernie Sanders wearing his mittens at the inauguration.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 23 Jan 21 - 09:22 PM

It was bound to happen, and now it has.
Nearly twelve months into the United States crisis over
the coronavirus pandemic
(which actually broke out more than twelve months ago),

the twice-a-week testing here at the clinic campus
has yielded positive-for-COVID-19 test results in three persons.
One works in the patient dining-hall kitchen -- yikes!!
One is a patient living off-campus, on a day-treatment plan.
One is a patient living right here in the on-campus residence hall.

Contact tracing began once the test results came out.
At latest report,
NONE of the three individuals with positive test results
have symptoms.
All three, wherever they live, are isolating in their homes.

Here at the largest of three on-campus residences,
not only is that one patient under quarantine,
but TEN other patients are now in isolation in their rooms,
as a result of the contact-tracing work.

The staff in the nursing/mental-health-worker department
are being run off their feet,
fetching meals on trays to the patients who may not leave their rooms.
The kitchen was understaffed already, and now it's worse than before.

Well, the whole purpose of twice-weekly screening tests has been
to catch the thing early so people don't fall seriously ill.
The three people are relatively young in years, and healthy.
Ditto for the ten people in isolation.

We will see ... what we will see.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 23 Jan 21 - 11:05 PM

Yikes. I have a stuffy nose... Not a usual 1st symptom, at least.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 25 Jan 21 - 11:24 AM

The weather outside is clear sunny dry and
very pretty to look at,
and bitterly cold today.

My internal weather is dreary with despair and depression.
I better do something.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 25 Jan 21 - 07:27 PM

On second thought,
what I need is a rest cure, and this is a better place than most to have one.
It occurred to me that
I'm recovering from four years of waiting to exhale
while the Trumpasaurus Rex, who did not get MY vote,
was in the Oval Office.
No wonder I feel overstressed.

Meanwhile,
the hearty extroverted kitchen staffperson
is still out and in isolation after his positive COVID test.
But the patient who tested positive (screening test)
and lives here in the in-patient residence,
has now gotten back negative results from the latest screening test,
and been released from quarantine.
Of the ten contact-traced patients isolated in their rooms,
all but three have gotten back
the negative results from their most recent tests,
and been released from isolation.
The other three, I gather, are still waiting for test results
but are asymptomatic.

Better too much caution than too little.
My latest screening-test results just came back negative (whew).

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 27 Jan 21 - 05:21 PM

Water started tasting horrible so I got scared, but then read the fine print on the antibiotic rinse I am using till allowed to brush again, and it says Don't rinse with water or it will taste horrible.
Whew again.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 08 Mar 21 - 10:12 PM

Things are better now.
The weather is improving, not so bitterly cold or snowy.
We have sunny days now.

A number of patients have discharged.
Two staffpersons are getting ready to retire in a month or two,
and it looks like some others will follow.
After New Year's, suddenly we had
three new people to facilitate therapy groups:
new hires, all of them. Not sure of backgrounds,
they are not clinicians as such.

What this amounts to is
conditions are improving here.
Sure, there is still drama and breakdowns and all.
But some sort of balance is being found,
after the utter debacle of the year-end holidays
when patients were acting out like mad.

And some of the patients who have recently discharged
have occasioned great sighs of relief, as they were
causes of upset and conflict while they were here.

The holidays, I was quite safe here
but it was also rather sad and heavy.
Now I am getting a second wind,
and doing some really good therapeutic work with my clinicians.
Even when I find myself in a distressing situation with someone
( one of the staff, God help me),
I have plenty of support at every level,
including other managers and directors
who take my part, so I never have to feel isolated.

It's a good thing I stayed the course and did not quit.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 11 Mar 21 - 06:28 PM

Bully for you, k!

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 17 Mar 21 - 10:07 PM

An earlier post reported
a distressing conflict with a staffperson. Today my request was granted,
and a brief mediation session was held
in which I aired my complaint with the staffperson,
with another staffperson present.
The person with whom I had the conflict apologized.
And it was all very civil and quiet,
and we all went our separate ways after.


The strange thing for me is how difficult it was for me to speak.
I felt like I was having to lift this impossible weight,
it was just this insupportable heaviness.
I said what I had to say,
but it felt almost unbearable.
I have been resting for the rest of the day.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 18 Mar 21 - 10:58 AM

Did it feel like that weight was off your shoulders, afterwards, k?

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 18 Mar 21 - 11:49 AM

I sometimes try but fail to work out what it's like.

I've had a couple of stays in mental hospitals.

The second, and longer one was probably around 2012 when I was in for an alcohol detox. It was a bit odd as I'd made, before admission, a comment about a demon that disturbed the consultant who wanted to see how I went for a week without alcohol. The end result was that for the second week of my stay, I was there and on no medication at all (and was given a clean bill of health).

Overall, I enjoyed (well after the initial higher doeses Benzodiazepines [Librium] were over) my stay and this is from someone who doesn't usually get on with hospitals. Yes, there were restrictions in getting out but very friendly staff, very nice (home cooking, I'd call it) meals and I found myself fitting in well to make up a group of (in jest) 3 grumpy old men who would sit in the canteen, go out for a fag (UK cigarette which, yes, was allowed then) and generally put the world to rights. Perhaps I could have become institutionalised...

I was saddened to read a few years later that the Hospital (Helesdon, Norfolk) had become part of the worst rated mental health trust in the UK as, during my time, I felt they did a lot right.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 19 Mar 21 - 10:24 PM

The deflating answer to your question, Mrrzy, is no:
that weight is still inside me.
I experience it as resistance to confronting conflict or disagreements.
The whole point of being in treatment here is that I don't have to deal with this all alone,
but they can't make it go away -- I have to confront the resistance inside of me.


Jon Freeman, destiny is a mysterious thing.
Although your hospital had a low rating,
your experience there was somehow destined to be constructive and salubrious.

I'm having, on balance, good treatment at this institution where the patient milieu is a little ... unpredictable.
I don't name it, as you see.
The institution for one thing
would probably be all up my you-know-where,
did they know I was describing them online like this.
For another this institution has a reputation to uphold:
within its niche of long-term residential treatment
it has made a name for itself. So, I withhold the name.

And it is no secret at all, however quietly told,
that some patients have come to this very institution
and have had experiences that were thoroughly unfortunate.
You just never really know how things will work out,
no matter how you plan.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Mar 21 - 11:23 AM

I welcome confronting conflict or disagreements and think destiny is 20/40 hindsight but who says this is the way to go. I know overall it doesn't help but I do it anyway. Sounds like your way is a perfectly fine way to navigate this diverse world. Persona is more varied than skin color.
As for staying afloat I've mastered the dead man's float and save energy compared to treading water. ;^/ I know there is no cure for dyslexia and am fine with it.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 20 Mar 21 - 11:55 AM

Well, k, years of therapy... Decades... helped me, so I have hopes for your future emotional-weight loss.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 09 Apr 21 - 12:40 PM

Requested, as an in-patient, and had scheduled for me at a local hospital,
my first colonoscopy.
Sound choice. Of course the bowel prep is miserable and all.
Much better to do it as an in-patient, with support,
before and after the procedure, from the clinic's nursing department.
The in-patient residence kitchen supported me during that day of fasting and cleansing
by heating clear chicken-soup broth for me.
All the comforts of home, really.
And they tell me -- at the hospital --
to come back for another procedure in ten years.
Thank goodness that's over.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 09 Apr 21 - 04:08 PM

Ooh no fun at all!

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 20 Apr 21 - 06:31 PM

Nobody but me is gonna care about this, that's okay:
today, after months months months too many months,
the auto service and repair required
FINALLY got done, and done right.
Sure it was expensive. I paid in full.
It was the time more than the money that was an obstacle.
Being an inpatient at a clinic, and getting the car serviced ...
harder than I planned on.

But here in this part of the US, this week in April, for some reason, is a vacation week;
and all my clinicians took their vacation this week, so I said:
Fine. I'll take a few days off from the clinic, go back to where I rent an apartment,
and make an appointment for the service mechanics I have a history with,
to evaluate and repair/replace things on my car.
This included a manufacturer recall involving seat belts,
that is something one does not leave to chance.

So the work is done, the bill is paid, and in a few days
I can drive back to the clinic and get back into the schedule.
The weather, thankfully, has been cooperating nicely.

I just feel hugely relieved.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 16 May 21 - 04:01 PM

Working out what to do next with my in-patient treatment.
No longer feeling stuck, if anything
I'm spoiled for options to choose from.

Looked at another in-patient, on-campus residence
which can be lived in, at a lower daily/monthly rate
than that charged at the main residence.

The main residence has the dining hall;
the smaller cheaper residence has its own kitchen,
and tenants may choose to continue to dine at the main residence
while sleeping in bedrooms at the cheaper treatment-plan building.


I could do this.

I could also move off-campus.
Thinking hard, very hard, about it all.

Post script:
most of the patients who were making life hell
for the rest of us,
have either discharged or
are in day treatment off-campus.
It's almost like a different community of patients. And yet.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Helen
Date: 16 May 21 - 04:07 PM

Choices, choices! :-)

Can you try out the alternative residence to see if it suits you and works for what you need?

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 16 May 21 - 04:27 PM

Take your time over your decision, too...

But this is all really great to read, keb.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 19 May 21 - 04:36 PM

Hey, Keb. May I call you Keb?

I'm sorry I am so late to this conversation. I can see how many people care about you. I'll add something uncharacterstically short for me. In the Christian faith, it is fundamental, and yet often forgotten. It's good advice, whatever your faith or beliefs;

"Love your neighbor AS YOURSELF."
Love for others is built on the foundation of loving yourself.

Sometimes you have to separate yourself from those who are destructive, even if you love them, and they are family or close friends.

You clearly know this.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 28 May 21 - 11:02 PM

Welcome, Jerry, and you may call me that or whatever else.

After taking time to think it through,
while the visit to the other on-campus residence was worthwhile,
my decision was to stay where I am probably through the summer:
I have settled comfortably into this program
and want to enjoy it a little longer.

When it is the right time to move,
I will feel better about my options for having looked around now.

The Memorial Day holiday long-weekend is upon us,
and many of us remaining here in the campus residences
are surprisingly over-sensitive and cranky,
snapping at each other,
breaking down and crying,
or just expressing exhaustion and impatience with listening to each other.

Oddly, after joining in with my own complaints
and hearing somebody say I hurt their feelings,
I feel ... very brave for having spoken up to complain in the first place?

How weird is that?! I'm supposed to be nice to people
but I'm proud of myself for taking the risk of
saying how I feel even when someone else's feelings are hurt.

I guess that's how you think and talk
when you've been in treatment for over twelve months ...

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 13 Jun 21 - 10:45 PM

Instead of moving to a different residence on the campus,
with a different program rate,
I moved to a larger bedroom in the same building at the same rate.
And I'm sleeping better at night, strange to say.
(Private bathroom, I don't share it in a suite like before.)

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 19 Jun 21 - 06:26 PM

The new and different bedroom is an adjustment but overall a good thing.

What I may do next is something different than I considered before.
I was looking at a cheaper plan on the institution campus.
Now what would answer my needs best is to get
more support from nursing while staying in the present building --
and this, of course, means switching to a more expensive plan.

My present plan features a little bit of contact with nursing, per week,
with a lot of group therapy sessions.
Now, doing some particularly delicate and painful emotional work,
I feel more trusting of nursing than I feel about the group.
It doesn't help that, in the past two months,
the group membership is so greatly changed.
I would feel better cared for, right now,
with less group therapy and more time with nursing.

Two months ago the group-therapy membership was
a pretty chill group of people.
We could be together and separate, in a positive sense,
at the same time: giving each other space and respect.
Some of us -- not necessarily me -- behaved like adults most of the time.

Well, many of the respectful adult members discharged within the past eight weeks.
The group membership now is dominated largely by patients who only arrived recently, some more recently than others;
and they are as needy and intrusive and boundary-oblivious
as the previous members were respectful.

I have felt myself going along with the group dynamic,
and on looking more closely at my behavior,
I see things I want to change, for myself and for the sake of others. Some of it strongly influenced by the drama in the group now.

Certain group members will fuss, like tantrum-prone children,
when I set a boundary and tell them that
my treatment is no longer any of their business;
all the more reason to do so, and that firmly,
and to have the support of clinicians and nursing while doing it.
It won't be easy.
Asserting myself in this fashion is something I haven't done often.
I believe I will be better off for doing so now
and getting on with the uncomfortable parts of my treatment
amongst people I can trust.
Thanks for listening, it means a lot to me.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Helen
Date: 20 Jun 21 - 04:03 PM

Hi keberoxu, I always listen because I want to know that your life-project is progressing well. And it seems to me that you are fairly clear about what you want and how you plan to get there, and that the plan appears to be working.

I'm thinking again of the idea that life and learning is a spiral. I talked about it in this thread on 01 Jun 20 - 01:12 AM

"learning is not walking around and around a circular path, seeing and doing exactly the same things over and over again. It's a spiral going upwards, so when you encounter a situation which you have been in before, you are different than you were previously."

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 30 Jun 21 - 10:11 PM

Just when I thought I had witnessed everything:

I haven't seen all the players in this saga.
However, a patient whose room is not far from mine,
is under the rather worried and definitely harried scrutiny
of nursing, program managers, and other staff.
Calling this patient eccentric is ... euphemistic.

The patient is almost routinely flunking
the weekly room inspections, what with clothing all over the floor
and I forget what else, never puts anything away.
Until, having flunked room inspection, they are forced to do so.

In the meanwhile, this patient has so desperate an attachment
to their pet dog that
a relative has sort of moved into a nearby hotel, WITH the dog,
and
the patient spends nights and weekends, not in their room,
but at the hotel with the relative and the dog.
This family has the smarts, at least,
to keep the dog away from the clinic,
so I've never observed the dog,
just had second-hand info about the patient being with the dog.

The patient is not from this area,
and is also desperately homesick,
crying themselves to sleep until hitting upon
this scheme of the hotel room, the relative, and the pet dog.
Mind you, this clinic is NOT cheap,
and neither are the hotels, not the ones where
a pet dog is permitted anyhow.
So this family is tight-knit and, erm, spendthrift??

As for me, for the time being I have negotiated that
I will stay on my present treatment plan.
Not step up to that more intense nursing option.
And, with the understanding that I keep my clinical team informed,
I will stay out of the group therapy sessions:
these are voluntary anyhow, no one can force me to attend.
And as long as I stay in touch with, and work with,
my doctor, my therapist, my nurse, my social worker,
my program manager and so on, then
I can pick and choose, and work out how to continue treatment.
We'll see how this goes for a while.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 15 Jul 21 - 10:38 PM

Today,
stay afloat
felt more like
drag my tail.

The work I did in my therapy appointment was necessary and promising, but it hurt like the dickens, and I cried a lot,
during and after.

I misplaced the key to my room, which, thankfully, somebody else found for me and returned. I NEVER lose my room key.

The humidity and dew points are so high hereabouts, that
the humidity sensor device in my room's bathroom
keeps turning on the exhaust fan.
Even when I have neither bathed nor showered.
That happened earlier this week.
To adjust the switch on the sensor device,
I had to pull an occasional table into the bathroom
and stand on top of the table
in order to get my fingers on the switch.
The switch is so high up the bathroom wall that
even when standing on the table top, I cannot see the actual lever,
on top of the little component box that says Honeywell.
The exhaust fan, of course, is a ceiling fixture.

I just showered and shampooed and dried off,
so the exhaust fan is going as I enter this
at the room desk on my laptop.

If I have got to have a nervous breakthrough,
this is a really comfortable bedroom in which to have it,
I will say that.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 16 Jul 21 - 03:08 PM

The saga of the pet dog has taken a new turn.

Earlier this week, our needy patient was approved to step down their treatment, by moving out of the main residence (where my room is) and relocating to a different building here on the clinic campus, where the treatment plan rate is cheaper.

The move happened immediately upon approval, the patient cleared out of the room here, and relocated to that other building.
And on that same day, their puppy dog went missing.
Now, HERE AT THE PATIENT RESIDENCE,
a Lost Dog Notice has been posted with a photograph of the seven-month-old puppy dog.

As if!
I'm sorry ... under no circumstances are we patients permitted to have a pet animal with us, and here is this Lost Dog notice on the patients' community bulletin board.

There are a bunch of questions I don't know the answers to. Like, what about the relative who paid for a hotel room somewhere close by where they looked after the puppy dog. And where, often as not, the patient would spend every night.
I recall being in my room after hours, and hearing in the hallway outside,
the nurse on duty coming to the other patient's room, knocking on the door, calling the patient's name, then shouting that she, the nurse, was going to unlock the door and let herself into the patient's room to see if anyone were there. Then the nurse would unlock the door, I would hear the key in the lock and all that, and the nurse would confirm, No, the bedroom has nobody in it, either human or canine, and would lock the room back up and return to the nurses' station to report.

Sigh.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 21 Jul 21 - 03:47 PM

When first admitted, my assignment to one therapist
was a source of much distress and frustration,
so I switched clinical teams, last year,
and have since been much happier
with my present psychiatrist.


As to that psychotherapist (not an MD)
that I could not get on with, last year,
this clinician has completed their fellowship at the clinic, and ...
been hired to work full-time on the therapy staff.

The ways of bureaucracies are beyond me sometimes.
If this were one year ago, I would be up in arms.
But now ... c'est la guerre, or some such.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 18 Sep 21 - 01:19 PM

I have been locked out of my residence bedroom.
The funny thing is, I have the device to unlock the door mechanism,
right here in my hand.
It just doesn't function.

You see, after a rash of thefts this summer,
a decision was arrived at.
All the residence bedroom doors,
which had conventional locks in the doorknob with metal keys,
would change over.

So the past week was spent collecting those metal keys from us,
after fitting each door with an electronic lock device,
activated (unlocked) with an electronic key fob.
Not just any device, but the sort with a
"high-security" rating,
which means you have to hold the fob up to the door device panel
just so,
you cannot merely wave it about, or touch the panel anywhere.

It was working yesterday and the day before.
I left my bedroom this morning, key fob in hand as it ought to be.
I come back, and the lock mechanism does not respond to the fob.

I go to nursing. The charge nurse is on the phone,
demanding to somebody else to tell her where to find the master
which will unlock any and all bedroom lock mechanisms.
Another nurse, on hearing my complaint,
accompanies me from the nurses' station to my bedroom door.
She has her own key fob with her ...
and her key fob also will not open my door. Nothing will.

Then it is explained to me that I am far from the only patient with this dilemma, as there are
other patients who are shut out of their bedrooms because the key fob stopped unlocking their door today
after functioning correctly yesterday and the day before.

I dunno.
As I always kept my door unlocked regardless, and am careful
with personal effects,
the series of thefts left me unscathed anyway.

Of course, as you would expect in a psychiatric treatment place,
the patient population includes people who feel out of control
if they can't control their bedroom doors.
One example is a patient
whose history of abuse and trauma includes
being shut up in closets.
For this patient, it is essential to be able to open the door
under any and all circumstances;
they lock the door on leaving the room,
but while inside the room
they feel anxious, or worse, behind a locked door.

Sometimes the solution makes a problem worse?

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 19 Sep 21 - 09:30 AM

Oh, keb, life just sometimes has it in for the living.

I am still fine. Fall does not seem to be bothering me. Pourvu que ça dure, comme disait, avec son accent corse, la maman de Napoléon...

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 19 Sep 21 - 04:32 PM

Yesterday maintenance got the door mechanism re-set
and now the key fobs will let the door open at last.
Meanwhile most of the doors on the other bedrooms did the same
sputtering-out of the lock mechanism
and all THOSE had to be re-set.   

Nurses' station staff is still growling about it,
but at least we can get in and out of our bedrooms now.

Oh, I still find the whole missing-dog saga too complicated to work out.
That patient is still in treatment.
They got their treatment stepped back up to the main residence.
Now, at last report, they have got a significant friend living nearby, somebody they met after admission to what they call "the asylum" . That significant friend has stepped up to dog-care duty. And there is now more than one dog, don't ask me how many, but "my dogs" it is, now, plural instead of singular.
Right this moment, however, the patient is out of the country, visiting the wealthy and spendthrift family for a week.
No more hotel rooms with relatives,
as the significant friend living nearby can keep the dogs ...
all most irregular ... but when you have got the money,
somehow, all manner of things can be negotiated.
It's all a bit much.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 25 Oct 21 - 07:49 PM

The hour of reckoning could no longer be postponed -- not for ME, don't worry --

but for that patient whose family seems to have limitless wealth
and very little discipline or sense,
and who went so far, this summer, as to post a notice for
a lost dog ...
why does a patient post a notice for a lost dog when
it is against the rules for patients to have pets anyway!
I never did encounter the dog, or dogs, anyhow.
This patient for months has come up with this or that excuse
to get out of the buildings, off of the campus, and
do anything other than treatment or therapy.

Today the patient was served with an administrative discharge.
And, I might have guessed this,
substance use is involved.
So often, in the cases when a patient here is forced to discharge,
there is some sort of controlled substance amongst the contributing factors.
Add to this, that fact that this patient is one of those
who conceal and hide and deny drinking or ingesting anything.
Until their bedroom is inspected and the inspection turns up ...
containers for alcoholic drink, containers for prescription meds that they were NOT supposed to have ...

I suppose during the time this patient was here in treatment,
we are all fortunate that there was no overdose!
It could have happened, but did not, in this case.

I really wondered about this patient's treatment, all these months,
on account of the patient's presentation which seemed so at odds
with getting any constructive work or support here.
Sometimes a person and a place are a poor fit with each other,
and I wondered about it the whole time.

Well, the patient is going home to Mother, and home to all the money
and the relatives who are, shall we say,
a questionable influence on somebody who needs professional help.
This clinic/institution has done what it may do
and it's out of everyone else's hands now.
It could have ended much worse than this,
and at the same time, it is a somewhat sad conclusion.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 26 Oct 21 - 07:31 AM

Under the heading of Not Helping...

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 06 Nov 21 - 11:56 AM

This morning I just sat down with someone at the nurses' station to alert them
of a community conflict.

Two patients have got a drama going on between them, about which it is prudent not to disclose too much.
They are both very young people, close to the minimum age for admission to this clinic. Both are deeply troubled.
At least one of them has a history of suicide attempts and hospitalizations.
I have hope for one of them, who is breaking the silence now, and coming forward and telling the truth about getting hurt, and asking for support.
It's the other one I'm worried about.
Not so much malice, but, sadly, impulse-driven, and desperate.
I'm afraid that this patient CAN'T stop -- that's exactly what I told nursing.
And the kind of neediness and obsession driving this patient
is the kind of thing that damages an entire community, one fellow patient at a time.
At this point, the rest of us need to protect ourselves and each other,
and the impulse-driven patient ... I don't know what hope there is for them.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 08 Nov 21 - 07:53 AM

The more desperate the more likely help might be accepted? My version of home.

But in the meantime... Yikes.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Nov 21 - 09:32 AM

https://www.helpguide.org/articles/mental-health/mood-boosting-power-of-dogs.htm

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 18 Nov 21 - 08:30 PM

This is to keep me from giving in to a terrible temptation,
I speak tongue-in-cheek but really it's a big distraction.

I want to blurt out something in group therapy
on behalf of the entire group of us
to one patient who is impossible to communicate with.
It goes like this,
and if it sounds familiar, it ought to:


Whatsa matta you?!
Gotta no respect!
What you t'inka you do?
Why you looka so sad?
It'sa not so bad,
It'sa nice-a place
AH,
shut uppa you face.

This patient attends group now and then.
Every time they show up, we never know what to say,
because mentally they are just ... somewhere else.

Tonight several of us talked in the person's absence about
how frustrating it is to try to talk with the individual.

One fellow patient used the a-word: Autism.
And I had to respond, "I really don't know what 'Autism' means.
Does it mean that a direct conversation is too much to ask for?"

It's just that I dread telling this fellow resident
how I REALLY feel about the invisible gap between us which seems
impossible to bridge with words.
I don't want to get too specific here, it would invade privacy if I did.
But the more any of us try to talk with the person ,
the more bewildering and hopeless it is --
tonight we were all comparing notes on conversations with the person
and how remote and unreachable the person seems to be.

So now,
maybe having said what I feel like singing/saying online here,
there will be no need for me to
make a fool of myself by blurting out Whatsa Matta You
in group therapy sessions . . .

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 20 Nov 21 - 11:45 PM

The simplest thing to say about that odd post before this one,
is that my old buried anger is coming up --
and the trigger is shame.
It's too tedious and messy and private to spill about here.
The year-end holidays plan is to spend them here at the clinic.
Plans can change, but that's the plan, for now.

When my situation overwhelms me with discouragement at times,
it is really helpful to consider
that had I chosen differently in the past,
my situation now would be altogether worse than it is.
Helen is right about that one.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 22 Nov 21 - 11:02 AM

Still ok here... Relaxed the keto thing through chocolate because it wasn't making me labile, but then I noticed the number of bandaids I was sporting because of cuticle-picking. So I got back on the diet. Picking compulsion went away.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Helen
Date: 22 Nov 21 - 02:10 PM

Good song choice, keberoxu. The *other* Aussie anthem (well, not counting Waltzing Matilda).

Shaddap You Face - Joe Dolce

The interesting thing about the song is that it sounds aggressive when you first listen to the words but it is actually warmly funny and sends the message about being involved and inclusive in your living situation and with the people around you, even if you didn't choose to be here - i.e. a child who migrated with your family to a different country. That song always makes Aussies smile - well, almost all of us. Some people get antsy about it.

(An aside: the influence on Australian life and culture from the people and cultures who came here to live is immeasurable. I can't imagine what Aussie life would be like without all those amazing people living here.)


Mrrzy, have you tried carob as a chocolate substitute? It tastes very similar to chocolate and can be used in similar ways in cooking. Also, I found that when I stopped eating chocolate bars it was the excess sugar which was addictive and eating dark chocolate with a high percentage of cocoa made it a lot easier to limit my chocolate intake. It was quicker getting the chocolate hit. That's just me, but it worked for me. My current trick is melting dark chocolate and mixing nuts and some dried fruit into it. It gives me the chocolate hit without the high sugar content.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 25 Nov 21 - 09:41 AM

I don't sub chocolate. Just eating less of it... Dessert after dinner, but not after breakfast, lunch *and* dinner.

Carob was a thing when I was in college. Tried it, didn't like it. Anybody remember Postum? Might look back into that for caffeine avoidance...

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Nov 21 - 10:09 AM

Ovaltine?

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Nov 21 - 10:21 AM

Ovaltine is 49% sugar. Enjoy your carbs!

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Helen
Date: 26 Nov 21 - 01:30 PM

Mrrzy, regarding carob I was thinking more along the lines of not-chocolate brownies using carob powder. I don't like the carob bars pretending to be chocolate bars. It doesn't work for me.

I found a recipe using my fave cake ingredient. I make a lovely gluten free orange and almond cake using processed almonds or almond meal instead of flour. I'm not gluten free but I used to take it to work because one of my friends is gluten free. The orange flavour is a real orange boiled and then processed in the food processor - everything but the seeds. You can also have orange syrup made from fresh orange juice poured over the cake when it is cooked. Or different fruit can be used in the cake instead of an orange.

I found the recipe to make chocolate brownies or even orange choc brownies and it was super-yum. It would work with carob, but maybe some cocoa powder as well to provide the chocolate hit.

Almond meal brownies
Gluten-free brownie
Ingredients
•        125g unsalted butter, chopped
•        125g dark chocolate, chopped
•        3 eggs, lightly whisked
•        335g (1 1/2 cups) white sugar
•        110g almond meal
•        30g (1/4 cup) Dutch cocoa powder
•        1 teaspoon vanilla extract
•        Pinch of salt

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 26 Nov 21 - 01:36 PM

That sounds yummy!

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Helen
Date: 26 Nov 21 - 03:19 PM

They are yummy - both the cake and the brownies. And the best bit is that they are super easy and very quick to prepare although they need to be cooked a bit more slowly than some other recipes.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 27 Nov 21 - 09:50 AM

Ok, so, yeah, yummy stuffing and pie and salads with fruit in them... Thursday night got 3 hours sleep, and Friday cried at folk songs and got a little het up in the mah jongg game (which I won by miles, may I add), then could not sleep till 4 am, awake at 8 something. Also broke the vape cartridge with my calm-go-sleepy-now medical weed extract, so that help is not available... Going to try for a local head shop for that. But not yelling at people, not really labile, ok-ish, just not comfy.

So totally worth the pie and the stuffing!

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Helen
Date: 27 Nov 21 - 02:33 PM

Well Mrrzy, in my opinion sometimes it's worth pushing the boundaries - in moderation - and living with the consequences.

When I bought a house back in 1983 (a big deal, a single female getting a mortgage!) I was talking to one of my new neighbours who told me he had been diagnosed with a serious, potentially terminal illness. He said he could go through a traumatic medical procedure and the long, slow recovery, losing his quality of life in the hope of an eventual cure and a possible extension of his life, but he had chosen to enjoy life, come what may. He chose quality over quantity. He passed away a year or so later, but he seemed happy with his choice, happy in his life with his lovely wife, and it seemed to me (looking at his situation from the outside) that his choice was worth the risks.

So we can live a prolonged, less than happy life or we can choose to have a bit of fun in moderation now and then and get back on the health track. The fun bit helps to make the not-so-fun bits more bearable.

Like keberoxu playing piano with the other musician. Like my group of friends playing music together during the pandemic even though it has taken a lot of my time and ingenuity to work around the COVID lockdown and post-lockdown restrictions to find suitable locations to play.

The fun bits make the rest of life worth living, in my opinion.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: The Sandman
Date: 27 Nov 21 - 03:09 PM

well said Helen

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 27 Nov 21 - 08:13 PM

Year-end holidays, like those last year,
will be here at the clinic
(unless something unforeseen arises).

Hopefully this year it will feel like more is possible.
Of course
it is unnerving to hear about the omicron variant of SARS/COVID
and to watch THAT making an impact around the globe.
New York State starting to shut things down again --
although the clinic is outside of New York State,
that state is but a short turnpike/toll-road drive from here.

But there are things going on that weren't happening a year ago:
cinemas showing films,
concerts with a chorus of live singers even
(one of the riskiest things to do
when an air-borne virus is on the loose --
they have planned the concert very carefully).

If I think ahead to the New Year then I feel overwhelmed,
as so much is unknown and cannot be planned yet.
So it's better to stick to the present.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 03 Dec 21 - 09:03 PM

Next week an appointment is scheduled to service my car.
To be on the safe side, have asked to reserve a loaner car,
in case my car has to be left at the service shop for more than a few hours.
There's enough things on the checklist,
and worrying details
(a dashboard light saying PARKING BRAKE coming on AFTER the ignition is turned off, with a frightening grinding noise underneath)
that the work may not be done quickly. Keep my fingers crossed here.

The campus provides for my needs well enough;
having the car, though, keeps me from going ... you know what.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 03 Dec 21 - 11:11 PM

Speaking of car service...

I am not allowed to go back to my dealership where I tried to take my newish car for a recall repair and something went wrong amd I *lost* it and yelled and swore. Then I backed into the door leaving and damaged my new car. Ooh I was mad. Over something minor. That was my fault anyway, it turned out, but I totally assumed it was theirs, given that they had screwed up the last two times and this was going to be their last chance not to screw up again...

So um yeah too many carbs.

Had long talk with shrink. Turns out his recommendation for the occasional glycogen break was a (one) meal every few weeks, not a whole holiday 5-day weekend's worth every few months. Live and learn.

Plus when I told him I lost it he asked were the cops called which no, they weren't, which put things back in perspective...

The highlight of the car thing, though, was when the manager, who had not been there, called to say he didn't want me back, I said with emphasis, You are the first person to do your job right at that place. You *should* protect your people from the likes of me even if they *are* screwing up. First time in his career, he said.

The highlight of the therapy session was I said I was crying at folk songs and I think I was lonely. He said, one definition of loneliness is what happens when a part of your soul is not being seen by the universe. So, he asked, what part of me us not being seen? And I thought about it, melted into tears, and said Meeeee...

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Helen
Date: 04 Dec 21 - 12:04 AM

When I said before about a little treat in moderation being beneficial for your state of mind, I definitely wasn't thinking of a 5 day binge.

Thanksgiving isn't a thing over here so I guess it was a cultural difference in understanding. Here was I thinking it is only one meal. LOL

My car is 16 years old, very reliable (Toyota Corolla), and usually I get her checked over once a year but because I've now retired my usual place to go is too far away from home so she missed out on her checkup a year ago. She made up for it by costing a lot more money than I'd planned or envisaged, but I prefer to know that everything is safe and going properly so I just paid up and thanked the mechanic for being thorough.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 04 Dec 21 - 01:19 PM

Here's the deal with North American Thanksgiving:
always on a Thursday,
maybe somebody else knows why, I don't, but it's always Thursday.
Followed, in the present millenium, by Black Friday,
which was NOT part of the original observation.

The outcome is a long holiday weekend instead of
a mere Thursday observance.
Hence, five days.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Helen
Date: 04 Dec 21 - 03:51 PM

keberoxu, I was friends with an American family a while back. They were working over here for a few years, she plays the harp so that's how we met. They invited me over for Thanksgiving one time and I couldn't believe how much food was on the table for three adults and a couple of small children. One thing which sticks in my mind was that she said that she had never prepared and cooked a real pumpkin for the pumpkin pie. I asked what she usually used, and when she said she bought it in a can I was totally incredulous.

Pumpkins are really common here. We don't get them in cans, and the other thing which amazed me was that the canned pumpkins are sweetened. Most of our pumpkin dishes are savoury - roasted pumpkin, pumpkin soup, pumpkin scones, pumpkin in stews, etc. All yummy! But the only recipe with a small bit of sugar added - except I don't do it - is in the pumpkin scones.

I only discovered this week what Black Friday shopping frenzy is about and its connection to Thanksgiving. The shopping thing cropped up here a few years ago but it seemed to come out of nowhere and it was never explained, and I never really knew what date it was especially since Black Friday means a Friday the 13th to me.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 04 Dec 21 - 05:10 PM

We used to go shopping the day after Thanksgiving before it had that name and got awful. Whole family split into twos and threes, walk around and point out likes and dislikes, reconvene, change groups, go back around for what people said they liked. Kind of a do-see-dough...

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 07 Jan 22 - 04:40 PM

Thus begins another year and
soon I will have my second-year anniversary of admission,
and I'm still at that same treatment clinic
for residential in-patient psychiatric care.

I've spent more money in those months
than I believe I had done in the whole of my adult life and career.
I don't regret the treatment,
but my stomach still drops at the thought of the total sum,
paid out one month at a time.

Just finished consolidating the cash reserves I have,
which includes shutting down accounts at a bank
where I was a customer for at least thirty years ...
having relocated to a part of the country
where that bank has no branch locations.
I kept that account as a nest egg, earning interest.
It was time to sacrifice the funds in that account
towards the payment of my treatment bills.
So, I had to travel out of state to get the cash
and close the accounts.
Just deposited the cashier's checks at my current bank this week.

My clinical team is pleased with my treatment so far and they find
that my recent work is productive.
Which means that it hurts like hell.
I'm sitting here trying not to cry
after getting out of my most recent billable hour of therapy.
I hate it when it hurts, I really do.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 08 Jan 22 - 10:00 AM

Good on yer, keb.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 28 Jan 22 - 03:48 PM

Keberoxu, don't know if it is about you, but the book Everybody In This Room Will Soeday Be Dead is absolutely exactly and perfectly about me.

If any of you are interested in what my mind was like before I managed to check into that suicide prevention program 2 years ago, read that book.

Spot on.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 28 Jan 22 - 07:03 PM

Which reminds me, Mrrzy my friend:

what transpired for your son Tim last year?
At last report, he was due in court
for what happened with his (former) roommate??

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 29 Jan 22 - 09:23 AM

Oy. Last seen when I went to hand out soup to the homeless on boxing day. I gave him soup before I recognized him. We spoke... He was unkind but not threatening, which is better, and he could put a sentence together, also better. He didn't make reasonable sense but grammatical sense. Hope *that* makes sense.
I ran into an acquaintance, a strange gay hispanic child-molesty homeless advocate dude (SGHiCMHoD) who reports that the other homeless are afraid of him (of my son), and that I should expect someone to beat him up for being belligerent.
Frankly, I hope he (son, not SGHiCMHoD) *does* get put in hospital. Even unvaxxed. He might get some help he otherwise refuses, that way.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 31 Jan 22 - 09:17 PM

Hearing that Norma Waterson has died
really brought me rather low today.

And there are more patients, than usual at one time,
complaining of suicidal ideation and scaring their roommates and friends with it.
There are some of us here in the patient community
who literally exclaim with exasperation,
What are we supposed to do when we hear stuff like this?
Just came from a group therapy meeting where we thrashed out that very subject.
It probably left some people feeling better after the meeting,
to air these heavy questions and clear the air a little better.

I am worried for some of my fellow patients, though.
I'll manage, but I am not so certain of the others.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 01 Feb 22 - 03:13 PM

Keb, what *are* we supposed to do?

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 08 Feb 22 - 10:01 PM

See, Mrrzy, they never DID answer that question,
the staff, they left it up to the patients. They always do, here.
Part of the whole analysis mindset, I guess.

It would be a different place if they did tell us what to do and how to do it.

I'm just in a rather low place tonight.
I see that a long-time, highly-valued Mudcatter decided to leave.
It made me very sad.
But then the sadness was there even before I learned that news.

My car, at least, is behaving itself. Just have to chip the ice off.

I saw a RED squirrel in the parking lot the other day, forgot to report that.
The red ones stay close to the woods and the foothills hereabouts,
it is rare to see them come into civilized lawns or parking lots
where they would have to tangle with other critters,
like the bigger, domineering gray squirrels.
So you go, red squirrel.
I remember the red ones from my childhood.
They used to make me laugh with their jerky speedy movements.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 08 Feb 22 - 11:37 PM

Hang in there, keb.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 10 Feb 22 - 08:59 PM

So now the week ends on an upbeat feeling,
and I can't even justify why I suddenly felt so much better.
All I did was stop trying to control everything ...
oh, wait ...

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 10 Feb 22 - 10:25 PM

Yeah, relaxing sometimes, staying in one's lane...

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 13 Feb 22 - 02:09 PM

Another pitiful drama coming to its denouement.
The patient in question broke the rule about staying off cannabis while in treatment.
Nobody listens to me, of course, but
I think said patient should transfer to drug rehab.
The cannabis abuse was serious
and this clinic does NOT do detox.

Of course the individual case has many tragic complications,
like suicidality and dissociative episodes.
It's just really sad to see it all coming to this.
The administrative decision, whichever it will be,
comes down to an announcement tomorrow (Monday),
and emotions are high, intense, and polarized.
I joined a discussion last evening to put in my two cents' worth
and right away somebody had to announce to the group
how angry my words made them ... it was not my intent to make anybody angry ...
I feel like I ought to keep my big mouth shut for a few days.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 14 Feb 22 - 07:44 PM

Oy vey.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 17 Feb 22 - 05:00 PM

Next month, through the big medical/hospital complex up the road
(with the clinic's medical office coordinating in between),
I'm scheduled to take a sleep study kit home
from the sleep disorders center,
and to use it that night in my bedroom at the clinic.
Bring it back to the medical center up the road, next morning.
Then a phone consult is scheduled with a nurse-practitioner
to go over any prospective diagnosis from the sleep study,
and the next step to be taken.

If there is no diagnosis of sleep apnea, I will be really surprised,
as the symptoms I do have are pretty bad at this point.

It means I am deeply fatigued.
I have all that I can do not to walk without staggering.
And my emotion/psyche level is really low down.

The support system in the treatment program at the clinic, however,
is doing its part.
In the last several days, my clinical 'team' has gathered around me
in order to nudge me into starting the paperwork to move out of the main residence,
and to transition to another level of treatment.
Still on campus, in a different residence,
where the patients/residents form a small household.
They still come to the big residence to eat in the dining room and so on,
but they have more privacy than one has in the main residence,
and there are little self-reliance goals they work at in order to
prepare for transitioning outside.

I have now been in the main residence for two years, and
the staff / team are literally saying to me, "It's time."
So I've gotten the paperwork started,
which needs a whole sequence of different approvals;
it will take time.
I have to trust that the staff knows better than I what I need at this point.
I just know I need to get some sleep.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 17 Feb 22 - 09:31 PM

Hey, keb, congrats! Bon courage!

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 15 May 22 - 06:10 PM

Have now been a resident for a month and a little extra
in the plan on campus, away from the main residence for patients.
There have been some rough days,
but on the whole, treatment is going well and the smaller residence hall with its privacy and quiet is an improvement ...
AND it costs less.

Last month, following the sleep study and the diagnosis of serious sleep apnea,
my insurance agreed to cover the acquisition of a CPAP machine
and I have been sleeping with it every night.
It was a big adjustment, and uncomfortable for a week or two.
Now the use of the machine in bed at night is part of my routine,
I am feeling accustomed to doing this every night,
AND when I do sleep, the quality of sleep is improved.
Others remark on how I am not as low-energy as I was before.
Still a lot of room for improvement,
as the quantity of sleep is still an issue,
and my sleep cycle timings are off, like dream sleep.

But things have gotten better with the CPAP treatment
and I don't feel that I am at rock bottom anymore.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Helen
Date: 16 May 22 - 02:37 AM

That's good news about your sleep treatment. I can empathise because I used to have sleep difficulties but now it's more under control.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 22 May 22 - 05:46 PM

One of the housemates at my smaller (cheaper) on-campus residence
tested positive for coronavirus.
Not a false positive either.
That was about eight days ago.
All week long, this past week, she has been in isolation in her room.
Her meals are brought to her.
My room is directly underneath hers, and sound, as you know, travels down in particular. I hear her coughing at all hours.
She gets medication so she can sleep, at least, and nursing at the clinic are watching her regularly.
They say her condition has stabilized sufficiently so that there is no question of transferring her to hospital, she can be treated here. So we are all going about with facemasks on, sanitizing and all,
and maybe this coming week the incubation deal will end its time limit
and testing this patient can resume, the better to find out if she is testing negative.
Can you test negative even if you still have a cough??

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 23 May 22 - 10:38 AM

Sure.

Stay well in there!

I am still fine. Stopped losing weight after a long talk with a keto nutritionist, whose advice boiled down (see what I did there?) to 2 words:

Eat more.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 23 May 22 - 12:26 PM

Your nutritionist wants you to stay alive, Mrrzy dear.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 27 May 22 - 09:55 PM

My fellow patient/resident, now testing negative for COVID-19, has been released from isolation.
Instead of having meals brought to her bedroom door, she may now leave the premises, cross the campus to the dining hall at the big main residence, and eat meals with the rest of us.
Her coughing had been very bad -- in fact she is still coughing. She is on antibiotics for the upper-respiratory infection, which are wreaking havoc with her already sensitive (read: irritable) digestion. And when she speaks, she sounds like a frog, with her laryngitis.

We patients continue to report for COVID testing every week on campus; the tests are paid for by the clinic, which is real nice of them.
Two days a week, normally, we may show up to supply test samples on the spot.
One of those days, however, is always Monday.
Next Monday is a holiday, the facility where we test on-site is closed.
So we will all have to cram our test appearances into one single weekday, later in the week. Could be crowded and confused . . .

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 31 May 22 - 11:16 PM

Things are calm here, which is nice for a change.
People managed to mellow out a bit, over the holiday.
Doesn't always happen --
this is my third Memorial Day at this clinic,
and at the worst of the pandemic/lockdown, holidays were just as tense and volatile, if not more so, than
the usual treatment schedule. But this time things were chill.

Somebody pointed out that this is the time of year
when bears get hungry and start raiding dumpsters again.
And this has happened in summers past, so we will have to
keep a weather eye on dumpsters for bears, all over again.

Because this region has had a high rate of infection,
we are wearing facemasks in common areas again.
Our housemate, thankfully, is testing negative and recovering slowly.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 01 Jun 22 - 08:46 AM

Good-O

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 06 Jun 22 - 06:51 PM

In a conversation today with staff who facilitate the group-therapy work and attend to resident patients in general,
it came up that since my admission here --
which coincided with the pandemic lockdown for the coronavirus --
the medical office at the clinic,
that's the office that is NOT psychiatric but that provides medical care of other sorts for patients,
has been through a turnover.
By this I don't mean those physicians who give us patients physical exams and treatments.
I actually mean the medical office nurse, the medical records keeper, and the office receptionist.
This is noteworthy because all three of these, when I was admitted,
were women who had been on the job for decades here.
And suddenly all three were no longer there.
True, one of them had her retirement year/date already set.
But another of them, considerably younger, quit outright.
So suddenly the clinic found that it had to re-staff this office altogether.

This came up because the new receptionist is having trouble fitting in. This new employee knows the job and all, but the culture at this particular clinic is a challenge for them.
Earlier today, a fellow patient was positively distraught because the receptionist
had left a voice mail for the patient, which crossed a confidentiality boundary, AND a third party was named.
It all reminded my fellow patient
of the dysfunction in her own family of origin,
and right now the patient is deep into the family-therapy work sessions
in which her parents are fighting tooth and nail with her and her clinicians,
and the stress of it is literally making her physically ill.

There's always something to struggle over, seems like.
It just gives me something to brood over.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 08 Jun 22 - 10:06 AM

Unfun, indeed.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 09 Jun 22 - 08:00 PM

Ok I have news: my mentally ill homelesss kid is in jail. Arrested on the 5th for lewd in public under some emergency protective thing (I am unclear)... It looks like he peed ON the jail, or something, from the arrest report I saw online.

This is likely to be good news.

I will update when I know more.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 09 Jun 22 - 08:40 PM

Mrrzy, this is old news, but I'll ask anyhow:

what became of the young man who used to be your son's housemate?

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 10 Jun 22 - 05:13 PM

He recovered and is currently a 4th in one of my weekly mah jongg games!

There was also an assault, apparently, with the arrest. I am hoping this gets him into a hospital...

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 14 Jun 22 - 05:36 PM

Um, it is worse. Ask if you want details.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 15 Jun 22 - 09:26 PM

Our housemate went for another COVID-19 test today . . .
they were talking about how it's been thirty days since ...?
I sort of lost it there.
There's the possibility that although she is much healthier now,
this particular test may still come out positive because
this test is sensitive to that virus at really minute levels.
I'm an ignoramus, I'm sorry -- people who know what they are talking about
know what this means, and I'm still in the dark.

Here at the clinic, members of the staff, worryingly, continue to
come down with COVID-19 and have to stop working and isolate and get treated and all. The patients are doing better at staying clear at the moment.
And this particular county, where the infection rate had shot up with the beginning of warmer weather,
has now stabilized and no longer is colored red on that online map.

Last evening in my e-mails I received an update from my attorney.
I need to ask for a distribution of funds,
and the trustee is responding to my attorney's demands and requests ...
very strangely indeed.
My attorney is frustrated, I'm disgusted, I don't know what to make of the trust company.
We wanted specific facts and figures.
So the trust company electronically DUMPED accounting statements that amount, my attorney says, to thousands of pages.
As though to say,
You do the arithmetic yourselves if you want to know.

I'm trying not to respond with the first impulse that comes to mind.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 20 Jun 22 - 10:55 AM

Indeed.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 21 Jun 22 - 08:06 PM

Today was a day of deep depression.
Did I tell you that my attorney is retiring in less than fourteen days? Well, she is. The retirement letter was e-mailed to me by her office today, same as to all of her outgoing clients.
I hope I get out of this half-alive.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 25 Jun 22 - 09:20 PM

Well I was unhappy about the development from the previous post,
with my attorney sending me notice of her imminent retirement.

Today I am calmer about the whole thing.
In fact, I think the soundest thing for me to do in response
is to look at this turn of events
as an opportunity instead of a setback.

Then again, it might be down to
the change in my prescription meds . . .

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 01 Jul 22 - 03:52 PM

How dare they retire when we need them!

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 03 Jul 22 - 08:17 PM

If that were not enough:

the program manager for the small select on-campus residence
to which I have 'stepped down' my treatment plan,
has caused so much distress in the household
that I went to the nurses' station for emergency services one day,
just to pour my heart out to somebody whom I trusted.

And when I had got it all off my chest,
the nurse said that
what I had disclosed is so important that
she has to speak to her supervisor.

I've done it now!

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Helen
Date: 03 Jul 22 - 08:39 PM

keberoxu, I'm a firm believer in calling out bad behaviour. We can keep quiet about it, endure it, and hope we make it through unscathed to the other end or we can be proactive and tell someone we trust and hopefully find a workable solution.

Stand by what you think is appropriate, and by that I mean, don't get pushed past the limit you are prepared to go in solving the problem but, as I said to a couple of ex-colleagues who were standing their ground against a workplace bully, "keep your eye on the prize" and don't lose sight of the goal to be achieved.

For that to work, you need to be sure of what that goal is for you. If, for example, it is a better and safer residential environment for you, then keep that goal in mind while others around you are trying to work on the issues. You need to be comfortable with the outcome and be alert to the possibility of being railroaded into something you could regret afterwards. I suppose I'm referring to setting boundaries, with the person you are not happy with and also with anyone who wants to take up the cause for and/or with you.

(Sorry, I was a Union representative for most of my working life. I'm used to standing up for people and especially helping others to stand up for themselves and achieving the desired outcomes, hopefully win-win outcomes for everyone, as far as possible.)

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 08 Jul 22 - 12:53 AM

About the program manager, I'm a little sheepish and embarrassed here.
See, I have always got on well enough, one on one, with the program manager.
I could not help but notice, is all, how differently the entire household behaves together during the program manager's absence.
I don't know what will come of the nurse reporting to the supervisor.

In the meantime, the program manager is back,
and I had my individual check-in with the person.
They know they are challenging in some ways -- some self-awareness there -- and they suggest that all of us speak openly about it.
Some of my housemates don't want to go there.
Since I am actually sort of entertained by the program manager personally,
I can tolerate a fair amount of the idiosyncracies.
And probably will go on doing so.
Honestly, I can do without the negotiating in this case.

THe other thing is that
it helped me so much more,
to speak with someone like the wonderful nurse I spoke with;
I felt ever so much better afterwards,
and found that by the time I saw the program manager again,
I had processed enough emotion that I wasn't upset any more.

I guess I sound like a real wuss.
My distress was real at the time.
What I believe I ought to do, is stay in the present moment,
not forget the past to be sure, but stay focused in the present.

Change of subject:
tonight I walked my bedroom trash, safely bagged, outside the house to the garbage cans, to put the trash out.
It was nice and quiet out there as it ought to be.
It's just that I could not avoid noticing how
the garbage can lid had been gnawed on,
and around the edges had been gnawed through,
by teeth ... really BIG teeth.
And I was reminded of the bears that raid dumpsters and garbage cans around here.
There's something about seeing a chewed-on garbage can lid
that brings it right home to you.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Helen
Date: 08 Jul 22 - 01:27 AM

I'm glad you have found some equilibrium, a sense of balance.

Bears? And people say Australia is dangerous!! LOL At least our dangerous species are little.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 08 Jul 22 - 06:08 PM

Ah, Helen, but the rumo[u]rs about BUNYIPS have made it into literature.

Update from my 6 June post.
The new medical receptionist,
who threw one of my housemates into an utter tailspin,
has resigned.

Here's hoping the next one has better manners and expertise and all.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Helen
Date: 08 Jul 22 - 06:28 PM

No, the ones you really need to worry about are the drop bears.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Helen
Date: 09 Jul 22 - 11:37 PM

Drop Bear


Drop Bear

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 10 Jul 22 - 01:16 AM

oooh, that one link had
quokkas on the page.

How can anybody resist a quokka?

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 10 Jul 22 - 05:15 PM

In continuing developments at my small residence at the clinic:
remember the housemate with full-blown COVID-19?

She was approved to move off-campus, to an apartment two towns over,
once she was clearly testing negative for the coronavirus.
So her room has been deep-cleaned and sanitized, and stands empty.
There is nobody on the waiting list at this point.

Although, one patient still at the big main residence had expressed
an interest in moving to this smaller residence.
Unfortunately SHE came down with full-blown COVID-19
and had to isolate in her room where there is nursing to take care of her.
She's out of isolation now.
Obviously this delayed everything for her, I don't know what she will do next.

I'm hanging in there.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Helen
Date: 10 Jul 22 - 07:21 PM

Hubby & I drove 3.5 hours up the coast a couple of weeks ago to see his Mother in a retirement village, although now she is in the nursing home section. We could only visit her for an hour. I haven't seen her since COVID began because there was a limit of one visitor and she was a lot more "with it" the last time I saw her. She was also walking around using her walking frame last time. This time she was immobilised in a large movable chair which the nurses operated.

So a total of seven hours driving there and back and an overnight stay at a hotel and she doesn't even remember that we were there. She has now been diagnosed with COVID but she would be up to date on her vaccinations so hopefully it won't be a severe case.

It makes me want to ask, "why is the news so wearying right now?"

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Jul 22 - 08:33 PM

Helen, whomever you ask I bet they will express a deep forboding as if a catclysmic event is expected. Even the news that the great sequoia forest is under the threat of an impending wildfire seems incidental.
We missed an asteroid collision by 2 million miles this weekend. Whatever is coming feels big even if the incremental change is small like the one more gram that achieves critical mass.

On the bright side 'these are the good ol days'.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 12 Jul 22 - 03:20 PM

Yesterday, a prospective new housemate visited our program meeting.
THis is of course a fellow patient at the clinic,
and someone who has been in treatment longer than I have,
and I've been here over two years.
Well-known and respected within the patient community,
as this person has struggled and overcome many obstacles and issues,
and has been a force for goodwill and kindness.

And we have two empty rooms, and on the weekends in this house,
people go away and the whole place feels like a ghost town.
Which is what I said to the prospective housemate
when I blurted out during the program meeting:
"PLEASE MOVE HERE."

How everybody else laughed and laughed . . .

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 12 Jul 22 - 04:49 PM

Bon courage, keb.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Helen
Date: 12 Jul 22 - 05:45 PM

Well thanks Donuel! Not!! A deep forboding of an impending cataclysmic event is all we need. The icing on the cake. LOL

Even with all the natural disasters i.e. many years of drought, bushfires, repeated floods, and then COVID over the past couple of years, here in Australia we seem able to be cautiously optimistic because we no longer have a climate-change-denier in charge of the country.

I don't want to drag this thread down with a full political discussion, but finally we may be looking forward to a more proactive approach to what this country needs to do for the future. A glimmer of hope.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Jul 22 - 08:43 PM

Regarding the 2,000 year old Sequoias; For, being green, there is great hope…

— HENRY VI PART 2, ACT 3 SCENE 1

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Jul 22 - 08:08 AM

Government grants to aid addiction services and mental health can actually benefit insurance companies and service providers alike to the tune of 11 billion dollars/yr in California alone. With that kind of money there is plenty to go around and give kick backs to various administrators. At $2,000 a day for two years one can imagine that keeping an income stream going might become a priority to the people who handle the money. Employees may have the best of skills, empathy and intent but following the money can POSSIBLY lead to a 'caring conspiracy'. I am not saying there is, I am thinking out loud how money that could pay for the finest hotel in Paris per day for 2 years could be bent for purposes that encourage administrators to push/wish for long stays. What makes us happy and how you spend money if you have it, is your own business and none of my concern. Sometimes "nothing is as it seems" doesn't matter. jus sayin... I'm just a retired hypnotist who saw how people can be led without knowing it or believe in a big preposterous lie. Life always has 2 choices.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Jul 22 - 08:25 AM

In a Parisian 5 star hotel $2,000 will get you the extravagant decor but only a tiny single room. The finest suites are 5 figures a day.

and up

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 13 Jul 22 - 10:00 AM

For two grande a day, you're not paying for the room, but for the ability to say "I can afford to blow two grande a day on a room at Hotel Extravaganza". The official term for this sort of thing, I understand, is Veblen good; another (mentioned iirc by Thorstein Veblen) is potlatch.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 Jul 22 - 10:30 AM

Staying afloat here this year means maintaining a livable temperature in the house while every day is over 100^o. We've have a month at least of it so far and no end in sight. The summer of 2011 was like this with 72 days over 100^o. A lot of people die in this kind of heat. People hunker down and come out after the sun sets and seek shady patios any other time. It's a time of year when if there is a traffic accident with a motorcycle or a bicyclist the victim could die of the heat of the roadbed.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Jul 22 - 03:56 PM

Up north when it got below 10 degrees we would say "Throw another dog on the bed". Sleeping in a dog heated closet also works in a pinch.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Jul 22 - 04:44 PM

Just in case anyone asks I'm not accusing keb of commiting a veblen good. I just pulled $2K out of the air as an average charge in many CA long term clinics.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 13 Jul 22 - 04:47 PM

Nobody (else) wants to gush over the cute little quokkas.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Helen
Date: 13 Jul 22 - 05:41 PM

To be honest, keberoxu, I've ever seen a quokka IRL, even at a zoo. They live in Western Australia which is the one Oz state I haven't visited yet.

What Is a Quokka?

"When National Geographic deems an animal 'the happiest on earth', you take note. And sure enough, the smiling, teddy-bear sized marsupials known as quokkas get that name for good reason."

I have seen rock wallabies in the wild in the Northern Territory, hanging about on a huge, reddish-coloured rocky face of a river gorge. They just hopped from rock to rock and then stopped and looked at us from across the gorge.

I'd have to check exactly where that was but I think it was somewhere between Uluru aka Ayres Rock in NT and Alice Springs.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Jul 22 - 03:34 PM

Dr. Trauma sez a regieme of MMDA would spring her from the compound and one treatment of psylocybin would provide permanent freedom.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 15 Jul 22 - 11:27 PM

Well, today a public tantrum broke the calm.
Not a patient, though.
A psychiatrist who is a Fellow in psychiatry at
the institute, as this is a teaching institution.

He scared the shit out of me when he lost his temper during a meeting.
I, be it noted, was in the hallway outside the conference room;
the meeting /conference-room location is surrounded by
consultants'/therapists' office, including my therapist,
and I had my regular appointment for this particular day of the week.

What's the difference, the old joke goes,
between the patients and the staff?
The patients get better, that's what ...

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 17 Jul 22 - 09:57 PM

I am reminded of the lug nuts nut...

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 18 Jul 22 - 07:06 AM

whatsa lugs nut nut ??

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 18 Jul 22 - 08:54 AM

psychiatrists are people with the potential to have all the problems (other) people have!

I had experience on a committee some years back with a very bossy over-talking, shouting member who also did stuff without consulting the rest of us. Said shouter was a psychiatrist & some of us wondered if their patients were treated like us! Several decades ago I had a psychiatrist friend who had a colleague who couldn't cope with tears(??) & prescribed anti-depressants on day one to all patients.

sandra

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 19 Jul 22 - 07:23 PM

The lug nut nut story is, a driver gets a flat tire at night outside the insane asylum. Trying to change the tire, steps in the hubcap and sends the lug nuts flying off into the bushes. Now mad, swearing, hears a voice from inside the fence which says, take one lug nut off each of the other wheels, that'll get you to the next station. When the driver seems surprised the voice says I'm in here because I'm crazy, not because I'm stupid.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 31 Jul 22 - 09:06 AM

Finally, at our smaller residence,
the patient whose move-in here was delayed while recovering from COVID-19
has moved in, this weekend.
So the house is not as empty as before.

In the past two weeks my attorney and I have been in contact
and the campaign to get distributions of funds
has resumed.
What a hurry-to-wait, hurry-to-wait process this thing has become.
I know it would be worse if I were actually going through the court,
but still.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 31 Jul 22 - 10:02 AM

Hoping for a good housemate

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Helen
Date: 31 Jul 22 - 12:52 PM

And also hoping for a good distribution of funds.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 05 Aug 22 - 06:05 PM

So far, the housemate situation is going well at the smaller residence.
I just enjoyed a Friday evening supper of fried perch, with steamed spinach. Have been feeling off my feed for a number of days, one of them with the sort of MILD back pain that ibuprofen can remedy.
So it was nice to enjoy a small supper and to feel a bit better.

We're supposed to have heavy thunderstorms tonight.
Weird, because it's been a brilliant sunny day all day today.
Hotter then Hades, though,
so I suppose the thunderstorms are related to the heat.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Helen
Date: 05 Aug 22 - 07:33 PM

Thunderstorms here are usually heralded by really hot temperatures here in Oz.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 11 Aug 22 - 09:09 AM

With regard to veblen good and the rest of that discussion,
I will just remark that
I checked in and was admitted to the clinic
just in time for the COVID-19 state of emergency and
the consequent lockdown.
I have been an in-patient for the entire crisis with the coronavirus.

SO I will always, in a metaphorical sense,
be in the debt of this institution for caring for me
and protecting me from dangerous isolation during the pandemic.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 11 Aug 22 - 07:58 PM

We're having rain as this goes online.
Hopefully no hailstorm.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 13 Aug 22 - 02:12 PM

Timing, while not everything, is a lot.

I came out of my in-patient thing just in time for the lockdown. Oddly enough I was much happier alone knowing I *couldn't* visit or be visited. Made it not lonely.

Then again, I had discovered keto by then. I just didn't trust it yet.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 Aug 22 - 02:34 PM

We hold our breaths here during this extended heat wave - the conditions can cause streets to shift that result in water main breaks and if a fire gets started it will spread fast. Happening at the same time would be catastrophic.

We're past the time of trying to keep some of the plants alive and are focused mostly on the larger more expensive shrubs and trees. The lawn is golden straw at this point (not that I treat it well, but I haven't managed to plant the area with something else yet.)

Staying afloat now means staying the course until it cools and there is some rain and we can go outside and start cleaning up dead plants after the drought. Fixing parts of the house that show signs of drying or shifting from the heat (our foundations all need to be watered to keep the house in good stead). My foundation needs to be stabilized and this year has left a lot more cracks in the walls.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 17 Sep 22 - 12:41 PM

This past week was a mixed one.
My mental health is resilient, more so than two years ago at the time of admission to the clinic [I'm still there]. Things roll off of me now, which back then would have set me back and overwhelmed me for a time.

Physically I have had better weeks. For some reason, on Thursday the best description for me would have been, as Senoufou quotes the Scottish, "peely-wally." Rather than hibernate, I got through the day taking brief naps, walking from my residence to the dining hall and back, eating sparingly and selectively, drinking a lot of fluids. I had to ask at the medication closet for a pair of ibuprofen tablets, which helped the achy feeling, in my head amongst other places. Can't explain what came over me, but it was gone in twenty-four hours.

Then came the debacle with the residence HVAC. The HVAC system is such that you can have either refrigerated air or heat, but not both -- you cannot change from one to the other with the touch of a switch or two. So here we were with refrigerated air from the length of the summer. Then Thursday night the temperature plunged, and when I got out of bed at 7 am on Friday morning, the temperature in my bedroom was down to 60 degrees F. Colder than I like it, I have to say. I was fortunate to have warm blankets on the bed; but then, I was most reluctant to get out from under the covers into the chill of the bedroom air.

So I went to the powers-that-be at the clinic and said, I cannot endure another night like last night, cannot something be done!
Well, maintenance came to the residence and did their maintenance thing. When they were done, there was heat aplenty in many parts of the residence, such as the large kitchen, with an abundance of hot air coming through the vents. But across the house, in my bedroom, nothing. No air moving at all, and no sign that any heat was going to visit the room anytime soon, and night coming on.
So somebody scared up a space heater, the kind that is filled with oil and resembles a miniature old-fashioned radiator. This was brought to my bedroom and plugged in to the electric outlet, and thankfully, it solved the cold problem nicely for the moment. I did not have to go through another overly chilly night in the bedroom.
In the meantime we don't know what is wrong with the heat in that section of the house, and more maintenance servicing and repair is probably in order. What a time for it to conk out, just as the seasons are changing.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Sep 22 - 01:53 PM

I've paid my dues
Time after time
I've done my sentence
But committed no crime
And bad mistakes
I've made a few
I've had my share of sand
Kicked in my face
But I've come through
And we mean to go on and on and on and on

We are the minions, my friends
And we'll keep on fighting till the end
We are the minions
We are the minions
Its time for losers
'Cause we are the minions of the World

I've taken my bows
And my curtain calls
I had five minutes of fame
And everything that goes with it
I lost it all
and it's been no bed of roses
No pleasure cruise
I consider it a challenge
before The human race
We're all gonna lose
And we mean to go on and on and on and on

We are the minions, my friends
And we'll keep on fighting till the end
We are the minions
We are the minions
All just for losers
'Cause we are the minions of the World
We are the minions, my friends
And we'll keep on fighting till the end
We are the minions We are the minions
We all are losers
'Cause we are the minions of the World



We are the minions to the one tenth of one percent who are the multi billionaires dedicated to keep expanding their con, scam or crimes. You agreed to the fine print of miniondom with a click but probably never read the user agreement.
Rights, freedoms and liberty are not obstacles to the ultimate rich anymore. Rights and freedoms will continue to disappear. Believe me they have improved the George Orwell outlook a million times over.

This makes many people angry for the wrong reasons and is easily handled by inducing a fight between the minions and the other colored minions or the other religion minion fights. The red blames the blue and the blue blames the red but they both lose to the system made by the owners of the Banks.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 18 Sep 22 - 04:46 PM

Good on you, keb.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 18 Sep 22 - 10:56 PM

Today one of the newest patients attempted suicide.
The patient was taken by ambulance to the big hospital up the road.
Every patient who comes here agrees to a code of behavior
that includes, no harm to self or to others.

A great many of the patients here sought admission
precisely to turn around their suicidal ideation,
I'm guessing this patient was one of them.

You would think that a mental institution would be inured
to this sort of thing, but in fact it is always a hard blow for us all.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 22 Sep 22 - 01:33 PM

Most of us patients are comfortable enough at the moment.
It's the staff, when I chat with them, who lament
that they've been having a rough time of it at work here.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 25 Sep 22 - 11:49 AM

Update:
it took maintenance an entire seven days to fix the house system
so that there is heat in my bedroom.
Just in time for the really cold nights,
fortunately in between there was a warm spell.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 25 Sep 22 - 09:27 PM

Awful about your mate, but good about the heat!

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 30 Sep 22 - 07:05 PM

Whole bunch of discharges in September,
and they have been replaced with new admits,
so many that I have got to the point
where I can't match faces to names anymore.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 15 Oct 22 - 10:27 AM

Sometimes I have the luxury of overlooking the fact that
others here don't have it together at all well in their lives.

The past weekend was a long holiday weekend here in the US, and
many people took advantage of same.
One housemate at my residence got permission to spend that weekend,
with its extended days, with their family at home.
To that end, they left on Thursday October 6, promising to return Monday.

Well, they seem to have gone walkabout.
We have not seen them since then. They have been gone for about ten days.
There have been one or two messages, explaining that they came down with a stomach 'flu bug for several days and had to recover from same.
Part of the complications include the fact that the family is putting more than one piece of real estate up for sale,
and this patient who is supposed to be getting mental health treatment, cannot imagine the family negotiating and processing the transaction without them.
But this is not how one is supposed to go through with treatment at this clinic, and I fear that
we will not see this patient again except when they stop by to remove their personal effects from their residence room after being asked to get out!

It isn't how I would do it, but I have to accept that this is a different person in a different situation.
Sometimes treatment here is a truly edifying experience, and sometimes it is merely mystifying.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 16 Oct 22 - 08:31 AM

Part of me says Their choice and thrn I remember they may not be able to make good choices...

Yikes. Nice that you care. You are a fine person, keb, wish you well. Be fine, someday.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Oct 22 - 10:56 AM

Real estate transactions can make the most rational of people go a little nuts. For everything you think you're doing to protect yourself from extra costs of downright being taken advantage of, there are people in the world who know how to get what they want at your expense. (A friend of mine tried to sell her house to a "normal family" so turned down an offer from a guy who was shopping for a house to use as a group home. So he sent someone else to make an offer and it still ended up becoming a group home for probationer sex-offenders. Not what she wanted and not what the neighbors needed.)

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 25 Oct 22 - 05:42 PM

Well, the housemate is back,
and the real-estate transaction, the big one with the lake house,
is done to their satisfaction, so all's well that ends well there.
Said housemate has a discharge date set, so is just finishing up here.

My psychiatrist and I are experimenting with meds dosages and combinations
and so far, the experiment is going well.
Not always a stable feeling, but having said that,
I have more ups than I used to,
I'm familiar with being all down all the time.
So now it's up and down . . . maybe that's normal?

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Helen
Date: 25 Oct 22 - 07:16 PM

keberoxu, I think up and down is normal, and it's only when feeling down makes us think we'll never feel up again that it causes a downward spiral and that can be a problem.

Knowing that downs are followed by ups helps me not to get lost in the downward spiral. When I was in my late teens, early 20's I hadn't figured that out yet.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 10 Nov 22 - 06:18 PM

Trying to stay afloat in terms of money to pay the bill.
The bills are paid, of course, up to this point.
It's the future I'm worried about.

I have an attorney representing me to
the people controlling the family estate planning.
They are arm-wrestling and negotiating this month.

Supposedly it is only a matter of time: of when, not if.
What if I run out of time?
Then the money will decide my discharge date, I suppose --
I would be far from alone, it has happened to many others.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 12 Nov 22 - 09:46 AM

Bon courage, keb.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 14 Nov 22 - 04:44 PM

Another rite of passage completed: enrollment in Medicare.
Because the social security website would not verify my identification,
I had to do this by way of a phone call with an SSA operator.
The call went on for thirty-five minutes!
The operator kept putting me on hold to double-check facts and stuff.
But we got it done.
And now I won't have to pay the dreaded penalties I was warned about.
A bunch of stuff will be sent in the mail from Social Security
and, eventually, notice of "award" if I heard right.

One more thing to help keep me afloat, so to speak.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 18 Nov 22 - 06:51 PM

There is a lot of emotion coming up without any obvious trigger.
I suppose this is what my counselor would call "productive" ,
I call it exhausting. Feeling is raw.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 15 Dec 22 - 06:45 PM

Hmmm, lots of emotion usually meant working on something to me... Here's to success if that's the case!

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 16 Dec 22 - 10:43 AM

It looks as though my attorney has come through for me
and the money will be distributed to me after all.
It took months of negotiating. Whew!

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 16 Dec 22 - 10:59 AM

I drove my middle dog to the vet this morning for a surgical procedure. That will be a one-time hit on my finances, hoping it just a fatty tumor and isn't cancer because long-term expensive pet treatment when it's so hard on them isn't in the cards.

I only mention that trip this morning because I drive a back-route to get to my vet who is in a rough part of town. Literally. Tough, and rough, with a lot of homeless people who refuse to sleep in the night shelter (because of their xtian rules, and because of bed bugs.) There are lots of brushy vacant lots in that hilly part of town adjacent to large brushy street rights-of-way, and on my way out again I counted at least 10 tents with tarps over them in vacant plots of land; they are usually at the back of the space beyond a few trees and out of sight if someone isn't looking for them.

It was early so there were a lot of men (this time) out walking towards the main drag where food may be purchased. There was one pair of tents set up with a bit more equipment around, including a propane grill. That is great for cooking and I imagine propane can be purchased nearby on the main drag. These are small communities, and they are hugely impacted in places like Dallas where they go in periodically and "clean up," essentially removing any personal items along with any tents or structures, leaving these folks all that more hard up.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 22 Dec 22 - 07:33 PM

Stilly, I hope Pepper is feeling better very soon, poor thing.

Spending Christmas at the clinic, my third Christmas here.
Something to celebrate, the family/trustee have said "yes" to reimbursing me for my clinic bills. That's a big one.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Dec 22 - 07:47 PM

That is big. It seems to be a comfortable space for you.

Pepper is feeling better, but don't get near her tummy or she becomes a dreadful barking monster. Threatening anyone with a growl and a snap. I fear the trip on Tuesday to remove stitches is going to be very difficult. Staying afloat - getting through stressful events - it's one day at a time. Sometimes one hour at a time is good.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 30 Mar 23 - 06:16 PM

Got through the winter months,
and spring is on a see-saw with winter,
up and down, back and forth.
Some blindingly sunny clear days,
and on days like those I get restless to be anywhere else.

However, I don't have to leave for want of money;
and it's not clear that I'm ready to discharge, have not set a date.

Other patients, esp former patients, tell me
that I will know when it is the right time to make my exit.
I hope they're right.

A staffperson sighted gypsy moths last night. Ugh.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 31 Mar 23 - 09:14 AM

Hang in there, keb!

Wedding planning for my well son is bringing up all kinds of pain about his twin, still homeless, still mad.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 01 Apr 23 - 07:09 PM

A few years ago I was part of a chamber music performance here at the clinic. Besides me there was a violinist, a violist, and a cellist. All were patients at the time; I'm the only one still in treatment, the other three discharged already.

The violinist, who is in medical school (very difficult), is a good email correspondent and has stayed in touch with me from that day to this. The viola player responded to some emails but the responses have gotten fewer and fewer. The cello player did not respond at all to my email.

This week I was told, third- or fourth-hand, of a suicide attempt on the part of the cello player; I was told two other things:
that this happened some time ago, people here are just now hearing about it, and
this patient is a twin, whose brother committed suicide --
and the former patient made the unsuccessful attempt using the same method as the twin brother. It was not possible for me to ask what method that was.

THis former patient is/was a very good musician, practiced diligently and had been well-taught; he could have gotten work in music.
I've only scratched the surface here:
there is more which I will not tell; he has a lot of problems.

Talk about staying afloat while others don't ... it's uncanny.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 03 Apr 23 - 09:02 AM

Yikes!

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 08 Apr 23 - 07:03 PM

One of the things that needs attention for me is
my attitude toward my family's occasional surveillance/harassment.
Over the years it has declined so that it hardly happens,
there were years when something happened on a daily basis.

The thing is that I still let it bother me more than is healthy.
What I worked out this past week is that
I feel guilt about abandoning my family, against all reason,
and the guilt is what makes me so paranoid.

This means that I have more work to do. I don't think it will be fun.
But if I can't get it done here, then where?

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Helen
Date: 13 Apr 23 - 04:07 AM

Hi keberoxu,

I read a news article about a very clever, very funny, very empathetic Australian writer of fiction for children and young adults called Paul Jennings. The article was about his memoirs and one of the situations he faced his whole life was having a father who was very difficult to deal with. He said it took him a long time to realise that the fault lay with his father and that he (Paul J) should not hold the guilt or responsibility for that behaviour.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 13 Apr 23 - 09:10 AM

Saw my mad, homeless son napping in the ground by a coffeeshop. Had a more coherent conversation than usual, he spoke kindly to me, smiled, asked for money but not threateningly... He did say he was a Cherokee chief prophesied to kill the people involved in his legal woes so, still mad as a hatter, but it had been over a year since I'd seen him so in all, a positive interaction.

Plans for the forthcoming nuptials of his twin brother proceed. I cannot talk said brother into letting me tell his crazy twin about the wedding. I would like to offer the chance to clean up temporarily, but have been forbidden from saying anthing. So I am not. But that is distressing me out,I can say.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 13 Apr 23 - 02:28 PM

Some stories have happy endings, and some stories have endings that are anything but.
Living a story like yours, Mrrzy, is not for the faint of heart.
The estrangement between your twin sons is surely complex, and to navigate the present situation you need to use your head as well as your heart.
It's not easy for you to be there for each of your sons;
but what you relate proves that you are indeed there -- for both of them.
All this is a clumsy attempt on my part to say, Take heart.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 14 Apr 23 - 03:33 PM

Mwah, keb.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 12 May 23 - 06:12 PM

Have been reading Judith Lewis Herman, MD, the psychiatrist who contributed the diagnosis "complex PTSD" some twenty or thirty years ago. She has long worked with survivors of abuse and trauma. She said something that resonated with me.

When a recovering patient goes through their memories and their story, especially the repressed, fragmented pieces around the abuse, time seems to stand still. Or, at the very least, time seems to pass much slower for them than it does for everybody else. It is as if time is frozen. It is natural for them to wonder -- as I did -- if they will spend the rest of their natural lives trapped in this heavy and frozen experience of time.

One sign that such a patient has moved on to another stage of healing and recovery, is that "time begins to move forward again", to quote Dr. Herman. There is even a sense of ordinary time being a special gift, after so long -- years in my case -- experiencing time as a form of purgatory.

I am having that experience now. My routine is mostly the same from week to week, with a schedule that is sometimes busy and sometimes waiting for the next thing. And the passage of time is no longer purgatorial. This doesn't mean that I am "cured". It means that I now get to go on healing in real time rather than in frozen post-traumatic time.

THis seems like a big deal to me.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Vashta Nerada
Date: 12 May 23 - 08:06 PM

Being estranged from a sibling is a complex situation; our parents seemed to have some influence on my youngest brother, though even they at times said they were afraid of him. When it comes to the sibs, we all recognize that he is more likely to hurt one of us than a stranger. He has a mental illness that is untreated; there may be underlying chemical imbalances. He had trouble in school, and as an adult it got a lot worse. He can't hold a job for very long. He is smart, he knows how to do a lot of things, but he can't get along with people. His one skill seems to be charming little old ladies, but even there, I fear some dreadful outcome one day.

Anything that happens is someone else's fault, when he's fired at a job it always ends up (when he tells the story) that when he talks to the boss the boss understands and ends up siding with him (but somehow he is still fired?) - so there is no knowing the truth of occasions like that. He had a union job with low seniority and his co-workers voted him onto the night shift, and then those workers insisted that he work in the tail section of airplanes (at Boeing) where they didn't have to deal with him. He's not in that job now, my other brother thinks he might have figured out a way to collect disability so he's not doing any of his old side gigs (not advertising because it could nullify the disability). He's a gambling addict and has lost all of the family stuff he hoarded from our parent's estates (that he fought so hard to get his hands on.) He has lost two houses and a condo, and now lives in a single-wide mobile home.

He tried scamming family, including he tried to shake down our rich aunt and uncle in another country. He kept going to the other brother's house, and that brother gave him money to get him to go away - and you know that isn't going to work. Only when the cash was no longer offered did that stop. No one lives close to him now, though that younger brother can probably track down any of us, but no one will open the door to him or take his calls. I've told my grown children not to give him the time of day if he managed to track them down.

Years ago we tried reaching out to the woman who he had a child with; we sent gifts to the child via the mother - they were returned "refused" in the mail. I have a nephew I've never met, but now that he's over 21, the next time I'm in the area I will look him up.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 15 Jun 23 - 08:08 PM

Today I had something like fifteen minutes before a panel of clinicians to talk about my treatment.
They let me talk freely as I wished; their questions were friendly.
I have been seen by this team of clinicians before, so they are all familiar.
In spite of which, I was a big bundle of nerves, short of breath, had a hard time just speaking.
I struggled through and spoke at some length about what I still need in my treatment,
things I could not focus on before that I am ready to work with now.
I remember some awkward pauses when I had trouble answering questions,
and I remember that it was easy to answer some questions directly.
I don't believe I dissociated, which I was afraid that I would do.
It was kind of excruciating just to stay present, but I did stay present.

There is no decision that has to be taken or change that has to be made at this point.
I just felt ready to update the clinical team on how my treatment has gone and on my thoughts on how to continue.
It was time to attempt something, however nervous or awkward I was.
So I did my bit. It's a small success for me.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 16 Jun 23 - 05:18 PM

Good on you, keb!

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Helen
Date: 16 Jun 23 - 05:47 PM

Which translates into "Onya, Keb!" in Aussie.

Congrats on reaching this milestone. Remember what I said (sometime in the last few years) about learning and progress in life is more like a spiral than a path straight up the mountain. You appear to have reached a point where you can look back at the significant points on your path and see them as milestones to achieving your life goals.

All power to you!

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Jun 23 - 09:50 AM

While others don't - The suicide rate is at an all time high.

On this Sunday CNN has a special on mental health at 8 PM.
It is about the future of therapy in mental health - Magic Mushrooms.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 18 Jun 23 - 01:24 PM

Helen, I believe you are right about the spiral versus the straight line.
And the spiral twists and turns, and it can be disorienting at times.
And the direction is not always up --
sometimes one has to go down before one can go up again.

Am getting my calm back after a month or so of hectic activity,
and catching up on sleep -- always important.

More power to the people who are actually helped by the mushrooms,
but for some of us, our recovery must be with prescription meds.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Helen
Date: 18 Jun 23 - 05:24 PM

Yes, keb, the way is not always straight up, but hopefully Trending upwards - look at the straight blue central line in this image and not at all of the little ups and downs, peaks and troughs.

The other thing about the spiral is that usually in our lives there are a lot of different issues we are trying to work through. On the spiral, we move around, past different issues, try to make progress and then another issue comes into view which needs attention. But, when we look back at our progress and compare where we started, way back there, it becomes clearer that we have made progress. If we only looked forward to our goals we would become overwhelmed at where we hope to be, but looking at how far and how well we have progressed already brings hope and optimism for future progress.

That's how I view the milestones in my life. I'm not there yet, where I want to be, but I have made a lot of progress so far.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 19 Jun 23 - 05:58 PM

Dig it.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 07 Jul 23 - 06:02 PM

Right now we are floating through a metaphorical swamp of heat and humidity.
While I wish that the air conditioning in my bedroom was working -- it isn't -- refrigerated air is available in most rooms of most buildings on the campus here.
It is something to be grateful for.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: NightWing
Date: 10 Jul 23 - 05:30 PM

Just read through this thread. Seen all at once, it looks like you are progressing toward better health. I'm sure that living it one day at a time, it feels much more of a question :-)

I have (thankfully, very minor) issues with depression, so I can definitely sympathize.

Know that many people are holding you in their thoughts. Get better!!!

BB,
NightWing

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 11 Jul 23 - 08:07 AM

Thank you, that is really sweet.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 13 Jul 23 - 08:58 AM

Mwah, Nightwing!

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 Jul 23 - 10:20 AM

Heat can be dangerous when you're not accustomed to it. A friend who recently moved from Texas to Cupertino, CA, sent a screenshot of the heat advisory in her new town - it will hit 90^o this week. She being glad that isn't a problem for her to adapt to. Here in North Texas today is forecast to hit 107^o. But for those CA folks not accustomed or prepared for heat, 90 can make people ill or kill some. Same in Seattle (we didn't used to have air conditioning in most of our houses up there.) So New England also - and when it's as humid as it can be up there - ugg. Stay safe, and sleep on a sofa in the lounge if your bedroom is too hot.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 16 Jul 23 - 09:41 AM

I got the working air-conditioning just in time to get cooled off
by the heavy rains,
and there's a tornado watch in effect.
Stay afloat, indeed . . .

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 21 Jul 23 - 10:58 AM

Yikes!

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Jul 23 - 12:04 AM

Mudcatter Haruo has had some hard times lately and has a GoFundMe account set up: Help me avoid homelessness... an injury and an electric bill, and the need to set up services for someone over-65 have converged.

I sent cash via PayPal that won't count toward the GoFundMe account, but he doesn't have to wait to use it or share a cut with the fundraiser company.

PM me or Haruo if you want his email address that works with PayPal.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Jul 23 - 06:14 PM

Today the high is under 100 for the first time in about three weeks. I'm watering, hoping to keep the foundation from cracking worse than it has already. My house is "afloat" - built on a slab on this clay soil. Few basements in this part of the world.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 23 Jul 23 - 08:17 PM

Would the news about Haruo get out to more readers if it were on
the Check-In Mudcatters Worldwide thread, I wonder?

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 26 Jul 23 - 06:31 PM

This is a surprise:
It was time for me to submit another temporary change-of-address /forwarding order.
The USPS wants you to do it online.
So I started online, only to find that a new requirement has been added.
Unless you have a working mobile phone account,
you MAY NOT submit an order to have your mail forwarded.

I have a little flip phone with a cancelled account.
Now it seems that the mobile phone is part of the means
for verification of identity.
It has come to this . . .

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Helen
Date: 27 Jul 23 - 12:40 AM

Hi keberoxu,

During the height (or depth?) of COVID here, a lot of businesses required smart phones to scan QR (quick response) codes but people like me with no smart phone were given alternatives, like downloading and printing a card which could be scanned by the business instead.

There has to be an alternative to using a smart phone. It might be worthwhile contacting them to work out an alternative. A comical aspect of my no-smart-phone status was watching the young people serving me while they tried not to look amazed, aghast or even disgusted at the little old biddy who is so out of touch with modern life and technology. ("I mean, how can anyone SURVIVE without a smart phone?")

The other thing is that in all of the government related departments I worked in there was a clear, strict policy of not denying access to services especially if the person had special circumstances to be taken into account.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 30 Jul 23 - 06:08 PM

Well, to shorten a long story,
I had a debacle of an experience last year,
trying to use a little flip phone as a mobile device.
It's cancelled now, but I did end up with a mobile phone number.

So, out of curiosity, I pulled up the US Mail online form
for a forwarding address,
and submitted the cancelled mobile phone number.
And guess what -- it went through.
So now my mail will be forwarded as before, for another six months.

The misadventures I get into ...

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Helen
Date: 30 Jul 23 - 07:15 PM

Well done! A neat bit of sidestepping.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 30 Jul 23 - 09:40 PM

Plus whomever they sell your number to, hah, foiled!

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 05 Aug 23 - 10:51 AM

This month, the dining hall needs a new floor. They tore it up this week.
It will be another week or two before the new floor is in.
All the tables and chairs have been moved out of the dining hall
and into various adjoining corridors and rooms,
and there we sit when we eat our meals.
The kitchen can still function even when the dining room is under construction, fortunately.
But the hammering and sawing are ferocious noises.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 09 Aug 23 - 09:15 AM

Doesn't sound appetizing.

I had an urgent meet wih my shrink to discuss betrayal, and my huge and childish overreaction to it. Shrink thinks what was taken was Agency. I am not so sure. We will meet again tho next month when I'm back from my vacations. I will think-and-feel on that as I sun sand sea myself into near-liquidity...

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Aug 23 - 11:15 AM

Keberoxu, you can set up a Google Voice account and port a mobile phone number into it to keep forever. The catch is that you have to have a phone number that it can forward any of those calls to. Do you have a different phone number now? Google has a one-time charge, maybe $25. I did that with a cell number that was once my house number. For a dozen years it has been my Google Voice number and it is the one I give in stores when they ask for a phone number. So it catches all of the spam. The account is set to only forward numbers from calls in my contact list. The rest go to voicemail, set upon Google Voice. I can also use it via computer and send text messages through it.

You can also set up a Google Voice account and have it assign you a number. But you still need a phone for it to occasionally forward calls to.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 09 Aug 23 - 06:20 PM

Ah, the word Agency!
Here at the clinic, there are three A-words that are part of the jargon.
Agency
Authority
Alliance

As in, patients are encouraged to take up their authority, a phrase that is repeated often.
Alliance refers to the interchange between patients and staff, the latter representing the institution.

You know, I'm not altogether sure what Agency means . . .
maybe I'm the one who had Agency taken?

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 09 Aug 23 - 08:33 PM

The Agency fallacy is the root of theistic thought, but I digress...

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Aug 23 - 10:08 PM

When Mrrzy wrote "Agency," why did Steinbeck's "nonteleological" philosophy pop into my mind? I've stumbled across Steinbeck several times this week. It must be time to pull out a book to read.
FYI, from an online homework help site:

There is no meaning to life. Life has no inherent meaning. The meanings of our lives are chosen by what we feel and experience or are assigned to us by others. The ends of our existence cannot be foreseen and will not be limited by such things as destiny. These are the ideas and philosophies of those who believe life to be non-teleological. A famous literary example of a non-teleologist is a man named John Steinbeck. Throughout his life Steinbeck experimented with Darwinism, transcendentalism, realism, socialism, naturalism, and Taoism (Endnotes 1). Each of these ways of thinking show up in Steinbeck’s philosophy and therefore his work cannot be classified specifically. All that may be said is that he had a non-teleological way of thinking. As nature played such a major role in his life, Steinbeck’s characters are shaped by nature and their surroundings give purpose to their lives. These characters’ fates are not pre-determined. Instead every event in the natural world gives new meaning to a life. As a result of Steinbeck’s non-teleological beliefs, his characters’ lives contain no inherent meaning and their ever-changing paths are influenced by occurrences and over the passage of time.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 12 Aug 23 - 08:07 PM

Today some triggering news came to me.
A musician I worked with forty years ago,
who has had a burgeoning career since then,
has been accused, by multiple other musicians,
of sexual misconduct.

This is messing with my head.
At the time I liked and trusted the man.
He was gay, and I'm a straight woman, so neither of us threatened the other in any way.
It's all other men who have come out with their allegations.
He has now resigned from all his posts and duties.

It's a heck of a thing when it's somebody that you used to know.
I'm talking about it and trying not to isolate with it.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Aug 23 - 08:42 PM

Don't let it mess with your head. Such people are past masters at concealing their predilections whilst putting on a face. I've mentioned in other threads a couple of people in my life who fooled us all into thinking they were pillars of society. One pretended to us all that his wife had tragically died and he was moving into our area to start afresh. He died of leukaemia a few years ago, and only then did we discover that his wife was still very much alive and that he'd fled from accusations of sexual abuse of his own daughter (he'd lied about plenty else too). The other was in his eighties, a true man of the Church, who is now serving twelve years in prison for grooming and sexual abuse of small boys decades ago. Lots of us round here knew him well (though not well enough....) and we all feel incredibly bitter that we'd been hoodwinked by him for many years. To say that we feel tainted would be an understatement. We should feel good about the fact that we generally try to see the best in people. That opens us up to being deceived, but I'd far sooner have it that way than to go around automatically suspecting everyone all the time. I feel your pain, having been through similar emotions. But if you knew him and loved him for what you thought he was, that's you just being a proper human being. That's good enough, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 14 Aug 23 - 01:02 PM

Reading this thread makes *me* feel better. Grope therapy...

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Aug 23 - 03:35 PM

Good advice, Steve. I know what you intended to type, Mrrzy, but that is a really classic Freudian slip, if I must say so. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 Aug 23 - 11:15 AM

It became clear in the charges leveled against Trump and his co-conspirators last night that one of the more egregious related crimes was how some of the GOP party folks treated the state election workers, and that goes directly back to Giuliani's persistent efforts on Trump's behalf. Ruby Freeman and Shaye Moss were subjected to abuse, one of the GOP workers tried to entrap one of them into saying they'd rigged the votes.

In the days after the election, Freeman and Moss became the subjects of a Trump-backed conspiracy theory that was later found to be "false and unsubstantiated," according to an investigation by the Georgia Elections Board. Giuliani, in an appearance before a committee of the Georgia state legislature, told lawmakers that a video circulating online showed "Ruby Freeman and Shaye Freeman Moss ... quite obviously surreptitiously passing around USB ports, as if they're vials of heroin or cocaine."

Last year Freeman told ABC News' Terry Moran that she subsequently received so much harassment from conspiracy theorists that for a time she was forced to leave the suburban Atlanta home where she had lived for 20 years. The pair gave similar testimony when they appeared before the House selection committee investigating the events of Jan. 6.

The investigation by the Georgia Elections Board cleared Moss and Freeman of all wrongdoing last month.

From The Hill.

That mother and daughter duo are after three years hopefully seeing things turn around. Ending up afloat can take a while.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 15 Aug 23 - 12:19 PM

Oh, I meant exactly what I typed!

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 15 Aug 23 - 01:37 PM

Dear Mrrzy, I believe you about the grope therapy post.
and by the way:

your question about "Iceland skipy?" on the obit thread --

I believe you were thinking of Skarpi, not Skipy!
What do you think?

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Aug 23 - 12:12 PM

Rhiannon Giddens prefaces this performance with a nice story about staying afloat. Nobody Knows You When You're Down and Out

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 21 Aug 23 - 01:30 PM

Well, according to the nice man at the filling station who helped
with the air compressor,
my tires are all fully inflated and supporting the car nicely, thank you.

THe only trouble is that there is a dashboard light warning that
tire pressure is low and the tires need air NOW.
THis even after a little bit of compressed air was added to each tire.

SO it looks like I have a malfunctioning dashboard light.
All that excitement for nothing.
I'll have to talk to the service/mechanic that fixes my car.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 21 Aug 23 - 03:42 PM

My car had to be manually reset after after a low inflation warning. This involves repeatedly pushing a button on the steering wheel to scroll through a menu on a dashboard screen, selecting the category and then scrolling through sub menus. As it is so rarely. needed, I can never remember how to do it so I drive around for several days with the alarm up before working out how to get rid of it.

My wife's car auto-resets after re-inflation but only after driving for a minimum time/distance at more than 30 mph.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Aug 23 - 11:37 PM

The sensors in tires that give pressure information fail after a few years. On my old Pathfinder I was told that 7 is average. And when you replace one, they suggest you replace all of them, but it is expensive. Otherwise, ignore the sensor warning, let the tires go rogue and check the pressure manually.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Aug 23 - 05:23 AM

The kind of technology that's there to give you safety warnings should be either be failsafe or not there at all. At the very least the car should warn you that the technology has failed. After years of being accustomed to being advised that your tyre pressures are low, a sudden failure of the warning system could be downright dangerous, so I'm with Maggie on that one. A few years ago the reverse sensors on my three-year-old car failed. I found out when I nearly backed into a wall until someone screamed at me. Ever since then I've never trusted parking sensors.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 22 Aug 23 - 06:29 AM

We used to get that sort of problem after half an hour on a long journey. When the car goes *ping*, Herself (a nervous driver) starts worrying. Now the car's neglecting to *ping* us, I don't know whether to be relieved that it's stopped, or worried that it's not telling us about whatever's on its mind.

I'll skip the rant about computers being shoved into everything, as this margi[snip]

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Aug 23 - 09:35 AM

For at least seven years my old Ford Focus used to flag up "engine malfunction" and put itself into limp mode. All I had to do was pull over, stop the engine for ten seconds and start up. Problem solved. It might do it twice a day, twice a week or twice every six months. You would never know. Issue never resolved and there were no error codes. Blind panic the very first time it happened, breakdown callout, the lot, and shoulder shrugs after that.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 22 Aug 23 - 01:08 PM

Steve: That sounds suspiciously like the running gag in Big Bang Theory about the engine warning light in Penny's car, which was always on, much to Sheldon's distress. The last exchange I can remember about it was (from memory):

What about the warning light?
That's still working, but the engine isn't.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 22 Aug 23 - 02:42 PM

Indeed

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 22 Aug 23 - 02:59 PM

That sounds very convincing, about the tire sensors --
so the dashboard light is in fact working fine,
just the sensors are off.

Presently I am driving the car with that light signal on the dashboard,
it does not switch off at higher speeds,
and if the car is stopped and started again, the signal lights up again.

This is probably a job for the service mechanic.
In the meantime the wheels and tires are as they ought to be.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 02 Sep 23 - 08:48 PM

The chorus that I joined has had the summer off,
and will resume in about two weeks.

Last year we performed the Brahms Requiem in June;
next June we are to perform Bruckner's Mass no. 3 in F minor,
which is another big long heavy piece.
Although it is supposed to be easier than Brahms for the chorus to sing.

I've just been listening to the
"Benedictus" movement from the Bruckner Mass;
it is slow and gorgeous.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 03 Sep 23 - 05:00 AM

”The sensors in tires that give pressure information fail after a few years. On my old Pathfinder I was told that 7 is average.”

I’ve never owned a car seven years. Although, in those hard-up times when my kids were small and my wife was a stay-at-home mum, I’ve bought cars, out of financial necessity, that were already seven years old (and more)! ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 09 Sep 23 - 10:24 AM

Talking of others not staying afloat:
there is a big hot mess in the patient community here.
It finally came to everyone's attention that
a group of very young patients were sharing cannabis and having intimate relationships with each other. It was all in secret,
but an older patient found out, and told.

Close to ten patients are discharging,
which is an unheard-of number to happen all at once.
Some are leaving of their own free will, others got kicked out.

Some within this large group have been through a re-evaluation process
and then were permitted to continue treatment.

It's going to be a little quieter, I think, when they all leave.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Sep 23 - 02:08 PM

The next round of vaccines for COVID are out, and my appointment is this afternoon. At this point it is a yearly vaccination, I don't think it is considered a booster.

Staying afloat these days means staying on top of the new vaccinations as they become available. Flu last week, and soon, the RSV dose. Everyone stay healthy out there this autumn and winter!

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Sep 23 - 02:20 PM

Had my Covid jab last Saturday, and my Flu jab coming up in a couple of weeks - what is ‘the RSV dose’?

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 23 Sep 23 - 05:11 PM

I had mine today. Covid jab in the left arm, flu jab in the right.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Sep 23 - 06:38 PM

RSV is a respiratory virus that can stick around for a long time and like flu, it can kill people. FDA Approves First Respiratory Syncytial Virus (RSV) Vaccine. The drug manufacturers are on a vaccine development roll lately.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Sep 23 - 04:18 AM

Aaahh! Of course! Sorry Maggie, you or someone else has explained that to me previously - sadly my 76-year-old grey matter doesn’t retain ‘stuff’ as efficiently as it used to!

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 30 Sep 23 - 06:04 PM

One of these days, I have to get
the Shingrix vaccine against shingles.
I keep putting it off.
But my grandmother had shingles and they were awful,
I remember her being bedridden.

They have just announced the death of Senator Dianne Feinstein,
and shingles was one of the things she was struggling with
in her final days, which sound like they were very difficult.

In the meanwhile,
Jimmy Carter looks set to observe birthday 99 tomorrow,
and Mudcat has a birthday then as well (but not 99).

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 14 Oct 23 - 01:55 PM

Anger is more an obstacle than a spur for me,
thanks to a lifetime of stuffing anger down and numbing it.
Therapy helped me deal with some buried anger this past week
and to my surprise I feel better.
I was always afraid that if I felt the anger,
I would feel sick, disturbed, out of control, I don't know what else.
Still, I feel more healthy now than when the anger was numbed out.
This is a big development for me.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 14 Oct 23 - 02:28 PM

Excellent! I have fear of my anger, too. Autoirasciophobia?

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Helen
Date: 14 Oct 23 - 06:43 PM

Hi keb, well done! :-)

I discovered when I was in my early 20's that I get angry when I feel powerless in a situation. That helped me to divert my attention from my own anger towards examining the situation which made me feel powerless, and then trying to find solutions to that situation or, especially if it was in the past, admitting I could do nothing about it and trying to accept that. My own feelings about my anger were made worse because I realised that when I am angry I cry, and then that makes me look like I am not in control so it was a bit of a vicious cycle until I realised how my mind and emotions were working, often against each other.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 18 Oct 23 - 06:23 PM

Thank you, Mrrzy and Helen!

My auto's warning system has been calibrated, and the tires filled,
so now everything is where it is supposed to be.
The timing of that dashboard warning is telling.
I was reminded by an acquaintance that
the change of seasons brings on a sudden temperature change
which can affect tire pressure equally suddenly.
So, although the tires had enough air in them anyway,
there would have been a sudden overnight change
which might have been enough to trigger the dashboard warning.
Anyway, it's done now.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 19 Oct 23 - 07:12 PM

Maybe that's what people need. Dashboard warning lights.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Oct 23 - 02:40 PM

Good manners drummed into women made dealing effectively with anger a challenge for the youthful me. As I get older I'm much more likely to push back, if I take a few minutes to consider the situation (if possible.) It means BS is called BS more often.

The SUV alert for oil change and tire rotation has been going off for a couple of weeks now; I've figured out which button to push twice to get them to go away during any given trip, but they come back next time I turn on the SUV. I have a note to call this week (since I also have a coupon for the oil and tire rotation that expires in early November.) Hoping to go a bit longer before new tires are needed.

On Friday during evening rush hour I had to traverse six miles of busy boulevard between my house and a friend's house (to feed her cats). I was headed toward town, so I didn't think it would be as busy, but on Friday it seems all such calculations are off. Things were creeping along and I realized I had to take my turn to weave between a crunched sedan at the curb and a bright red pickup with a smashed in front end that sat perpendicular to my lane. Police and tow truck hadn't arrived yet and the truck seemed unwilling to move. And as I slowly took my turn, I herd another collision in the lane travelling south. A quick glance showed a SUV was rear-ended. That was four drivers having probably the worst day of the week and I am always aware that any of us could be next. The glance was in the rear view mirror because rubber-necking always causes accidents.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 23 Oct 23 - 10:17 AM

A friend who had just lost her job was in an awful car accident last week, smashed ler leg up proper.... the ambulance chasers are already circling. Hope she gets zillions.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Oct 23 - 02:21 PM

And hope they had insurance.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Oct 23 - 02:36 PM

In MD if the other guy has no insurance the State covers your damage.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Helen
Date: 14 Oct 23 - 06:43 PM

Hi keb, well done! :-)

I discovered when I was in my early 20's that I get angry when I feel powerless in a situation. That helped me to divert my attention from my own anger towards examining the situation which made me feel powerless, and then trying to find solutions to that situation or, especially if it was in the past, admitting I could do nothing about it and trying to accept that. My own feelings about my anger were made worse because I realised that when I am angry I cry, and then that makes me look like I am not in control so it was a bit of a vicious cycle until I realised how my mind and emotions were working, often against each other.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 14 Oct 23 - 02:28 PM

Excellent! I have fear of my anger, too. Autoirasciophobia?

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 19 Oct 23 - 07:12 PM

Maybe that's what people need. Dashboard warning lights.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Sep 23 - 02:08 PM

The next round of vaccines for COVID are out, and my appointment is this afternoon. At this point it is a yearly vaccination, I don't think it is considered a booster.

Staying afloat these days means staying on top of the new vaccinations as they become available. Flu last week, and soon, the RSV dose. Everyone stay healthy out there this autumn and winter!

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Sep 23 - 06:38 PM

RSV is a respiratory virus that can stick around for a long time and like flu, it can kill people. FDA Approves First Respiratory Syncytial Virus (RSV) Vaccine. The drug manufacturers are on a vaccine development roll lately.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 23 Sep 23 - 05:11 PM

I had mine today. Covid jab in the left arm, flu jab in the right.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 03 Sep 23 - 05:00 AM

”The sensors in tires that give pressure information fail after a few years. On my old Pathfinder I was told that 7 is average.”

I’ve never owned a car seven years. Although, in those hard-up times when my kids were small and my wife was a stay-at-home mum, I’ve bought cars, out of financial necessity, that were already seven years old (and more)! ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Sep 23 - 02:20 PM

Had my Covid jab last Saturday, and my Flu jab coming up in a couple of weeks - what is ‘the RSV dose’?

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Sep 23 - 04:18 AM

Aaahh! Of course! Sorry Maggie, you or someone else has explained that to me previously - sadly my 76-year-old grey matter doesn’t retain ‘stuff’ as efficiently as it used to!

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 02 Sep 23 - 08:48 PM

The chorus that I joined has had the summer off,
and will resume in about two weeks.

Last year we performed the Brahms Requiem in June;
next June we are to perform Bruckner's Mass no. 3 in F minor,
which is another big long heavy piece.
Although it is supposed to be easier than Brahms for the chorus to sing.

I've just been listening to the
"Benedictus" movement from the Bruckner Mass;
it is slow and gorgeous.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 09 Sep 23 - 10:24 AM

Talking of others not staying afloat:
there is a big hot mess in the patient community here.
It finally came to everyone's attention that
a group of very young patients were sharing cannabis and having intimate relationships with each other. It was all in secret,
but an older patient found out, and told.

Close to ten patients are discharging,
which is an unheard-of number to happen all at once.
Some are leaving of their own free will, others got kicked out.

Some within this large group have been through a re-evaluation process
and then were permitted to continue treatment.

It's going to be a little quieter, I think, when they all leave.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 30 Sep 23 - 06:04 PM

One of these days, I have to get
the Shingrix vaccine against shingles.
I keep putting it off.
But my grandmother had shingles and they were awful,
I remember her being bedridden.

They have just announced the death of Senator Dianne Feinstein,
and shingles was one of the things she was struggling with
in her final days, which sound like they were very difficult.

In the meanwhile,
Jimmy Carter looks set to observe birthday 99 tomorrow,
and Mudcat has a birthday then as well (but not 99).

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 14 Oct 23 - 01:55 PM

Anger is more an obstacle than a spur for me,
thanks to a lifetime of stuffing anger down and numbing it.
Therapy helped me deal with some buried anger this past week
and to my surprise I feel better.
I was always afraid that if I felt the anger,
I would feel sick, disturbed, out of control, I don't know what else.
Still, I feel more healthy now than when the anger was numbed out.
This is a big development for me.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 18 Oct 23 - 06:23 PM

Thank you, Mrrzy and Helen!

My auto's warning system has been calibrated, and the tires filled,
so now everything is where it is supposed to be.
The timing of that dashboard warning is telling.
I was reminded by an acquaintance that
the change of seasons brings on a sudden temperature change
which can affect tire pressure equally suddenly.
So, although the tires had enough air in them anyway,
there would have been a sudden overnight change
which might have been enough to trigger the dashboard warning.
Anyway, it's done now.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 23 Oct 23 - 10:17 AM

A friend who had just lost her job was in an awful car accident last week, smashed ler leg up proper.... the ambulance chasers are already circling. Hope she gets zillions.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Oct 23 - 02:36 PM

In MD if the other guy has no insurance the State covers your damage.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Oct 23 - 02:40 PM

Good manners drummed into women made dealing effectively with anger a challenge for the youthful me. As I get older I'm much more likely to push back, if I take a few minutes to consider the situation (if possible.) It means BS is called BS more often.

The SUV alert for oil change and tire rotation has been going off for a couple of weeks now; I've figured out which button to push twice to get them to go away during any given trip, but they come back next time I turn on the SUV. I have a note to call this week (since I also have a coupon for the oil and tire rotation that expires in early November.) Hoping to go a bit longer before new tires are needed.

On Friday during evening rush hour I had to traverse six miles of busy boulevard between my house and a friend's house (to feed her cats). I was headed toward town, so I didn't think it would be as busy, but on Friday it seems all such calculations are off. Things were creeping along and I realized I had to take my turn to weave between a crunched sedan at the curb and a bright red pickup with a smashed in front end that sat perpendicular to my lane. Police and tow truck hadn't arrived yet and the truck seemed unwilling to move. And as I slowly took my turn, I herd another collision in the lane travelling south. A quick glance showed a SUV was rear-ended. That was four drivers having probably the worst day of the week and I am always aware that any of us could be next. The glance was in the rear view mirror because rubber-necking always causes accidents.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Oct 23 - 02:21 PM

And hope they had insurance.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 01 Dec 23 - 08:05 PM

Well, my spirits are good and my person is functional,
in spite of a recent fall in which my face scraped a brick pavement.
I was lucky; I was carrying a packed tote bag in front of me,
which broke my fall, otherwise it would have been a lot worse.

The scabs are almost all healed on my face now, they cleared up quick.
What needs attention now is my knee, which took the brunt of the fall.
It's still swollen and I am still using ice on it.
HOwever, the X-ray of the knee showed no fracture... only arthritis.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 02 Dec 23 - 09:59 AM

Yikes, keb! Verticality!

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 06 Dec 23 - 04:50 PM

My chorus had the big dress rehearsal two nights ago.
If I didn't know better, I would use the word disaster.
But really it was just a bunch of problems that piled up.
We had the rehearsal all right, and covered all the repertoire.
It's just that:

our performance venue is a church where we have never sung before.
It's hidden away in an old neighborhood on a hill,
and it's almost impossible to find AFTER DARK
which is the time of both rehearsal and Friday performance.
I drove back and forth hunting for the right cross street.

And,
one of the accompanist string players came down with COVID-19
so the string quartet will be a string trio.

And,
our faithful pianist had to rush his ailing wife to the hospital
following dire results on a full CAT scan.

Well, you know what they say about the worst dress rehearsals . . .

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 09 Dec 23 - 08:48 AM

One concert down, two more to go,
and one of those is this Sunday.

Friday went well but felt sort of unreal,
especially being in a church where we have never sung before.
A relief, really, to have overwith.

Our other concerts start in the afternoon.
It will be dark by the time we go home,
but at least we will begin before the sun goes down.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 09 Dec 23 - 10:19 AM

Lovely, keb.

I am trying not to freak out about my neck. Chocolate is helping, but must be moderate...

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 13 Dec 23 - 01:21 AM

Bonne chance, Mrrzy, with the surgery today (13th).

Since the Sunday concert, the chorister who stands next to me in performance, has tested positive for COVID-19, and cannot perform in the third concert on Saturday.
I'll get tested tomorrow which will be the third day after exposure.

In the meantime I have a cough which is mild when I am upright
and severe when I lie down to go to sleep. Sleep is elusive.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 19 Dec 23 - 01:35 PM

Well, I've now been in and out of isolation.
I am told that it is common for patients treated with Paxlovid
to get lingering faint positives on their first antigen test after treatment, as I did.
Anyway my symptoms are much improved, and there is no fever.

So, the protocol now is to mask and to social distance,
and in particular
not to eat in the presence of others.
Otherwise I can leave the isolation room
and sleep in my own room again.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Dec 23 - 02:38 PM

I skimmed back but am not up to what Mrrzy's remark was about (neck and chocolate). And surgery on the 13th - how did it go?

COVID is taking out folks around here also. A couple of professor friends ended the semester with it and passed it to family members before figuring it out. As the commercial says, the pandemic may be over, but COVID isn't gone. I hope everyone is fully vaccinated.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 22 Dec 23 - 06:59 PM

with any luck,
I will be permitted to join others at the table
for Christmas Eve and Christmas Day.

But I have to spend Saturday masked and social-distanced first.

At least the weather is fair and mild.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 23 Dec 23 - 06:59 PM

Facemask off tomorrow
and I can eat at the same table with others now.

I Just have to watch that residual cough.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 25 Dec 23 - 10:14 AM

I live from one dose of cough syrup to the next --
don't know if it's Long COVID or some other menace.

Anyway, I can eat dinner with everybody at the Christmas table today.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 28 Dec 23 - 12:40 PM

Surgery went well. See the Interesting Times thread for the horrible rare side effect... can't do without one of those!

Meanwhile, on the tower, as Edward Gorey wrote,..

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 28 Dec 23 - 02:28 PM

Thanks, Mrrzy, for telling me.
Good to know that everybody's well wishes came at least partially true.
Good luck with the rare side effect!

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 08 Jan 24 - 03:06 PM

The cough, along with some wheezing, still lingers,
and only cough drops can soothe and calm it down.
And those only last twenty minutes...

I've made a follow-up appointment with the physician.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 10 Jan 24 - 06:48 PM

The physician is going to try an inhaler.
It will be my first time using one, the nurses will have fun teaching me how to use the inhaler.
We're still waiting for the order to be filled.

IN the meantime, I am working those cough drops to their limits.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Thompson
Date: 13 Jan 24 - 01:11 AM

I'm told that using a spacer increases the amount of medication that you get when using the inhaler.
There are a few different kinds of inhaler, some work for one person and won't work for others, so if the first doesn't work, go back and see if a different kind might work better.
Good luck with it, keboroxu.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 14 Jan 24 - 06:36 AM

> I'm told that using a spacer increases the amount of medication
> that you get when using the inhaler.

Thanks, Thompson: *that*'s the word for what I use with my asthma inhaler.* If you don't use a spacer, and (as directed) breathe in hard when you use the inhaler, the active ingredient tends to hit the back of the throat, rather than going down to the lungs as it should. (That's why my brother, a fellow asthmatic, got thrush at one point.)

Much of course depends on the type of inhaler. The ones I was given at one point looked like a very small flying saucer, but those might have specially-designed spacers ....

* For those who haven't seen one, a spacer looks a bit like the cardboard tube from the middle of a toilet roll. You plug the inhaler in one end, and breathe in the dose at the other.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 15 Jan 24 - 08:38 AM

Another chorus rehearsal tonight.
My cough has lessened considerably over the past week.
Maybe tonight it won't feel so godawful to try to sing.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 Jan 24 - 11:41 AM

Still coughing? Less is good, but gone is better!

I'm not starting a thread, and others please don't. Our Canadian friend gnu in Moncton, NB, has entered palliative end-of-life care as of yesterday. Not staying afloat. :-(

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 16 Jan 24 - 02:25 PM

Aw, I hope that river flows gently.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 24 Jan 24 - 08:05 PM

The cough is better, but not gone just yet.
I'm quieting it with cough drops
unless it gets bad again,
then I may give in and use an inhaler.


I'm giving serious thought to a future as someone who lives in
a retirement community. I had avoided thinking about this for a long time.
Others have recommended this option, since I am alone and
have a dangerous tendency to isolate.
Also, after several years in an open-setting institution
with a closely-knit community inside,
it is especially important that I do not resume isolating
when I eventually make a discharge plan.

This is a daunting thing to consider.
I have very little experience with retirement communities
or even with care homes.
I can see that it is an industry and a big one at that.
There is a lot to learn about it and it feels overwhelming.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 16 Feb 24 - 04:32 PM

Continuing from the previous post:

then there is the question of location.

Should I go back to where I have lived,
outside a major northeastern metropolis,
and look for housing/community there,
where I have only a handful of contacts and connections;

or should I relocate to the area where my treatment center is,
where I do have connections,
but which is more rural with fewer conveniences?

I can't make up my mind
and maybe it is too soon to do so.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 16 Feb 24 - 08:58 PM

Sounds too soon. Much, much rumination about the what-ifs. I wish there were an English (language) equivalent of Bon courage!

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 17 Feb 24 - 06:35 PM

Today I got to visit and get a brief tour of
an apartment complex near the city;
it's not a home, but it's for seniors only.
Liked what I saw; busy activities program
and much emphasis on community.
And it's a lease with monthly payments, like I'm already used to.
A place like this one might be a good intermediate step between
where I have lived and a full-fledged community/home,
which seems a little too far a step for my comfort.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 19 Feb 24 - 10:01 AM

Good to know of possibilities

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Senoufou
Date: 21 Feb 24 - 03:58 AM

After an ultrasound scan,I've been referred by my doctor to have an operation in the Norfolk & Norwich hospital to remove my gall bladder. I'm in a lot of pain all over my back, and often have to lie down to ease it somewhat. No pain-relief tablets shift it. I got a letter last week from the hospital saying there are massive delays for operations due to strikes etc, and it may be 'up to 18 weeks' before I get the summons!
Very depressing, but hey ho, such is life!

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 21 Feb 24 - 08:27 AM

Oh, I got to play Stump The Medical Student with my gall bladder! It had polyps, not stones. So much fun.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Feb 24 - 01:32 PM

I am headed to a sleep study one of these days, after a follow-up with my doctor to do with my thyroid level. I thought I might need a boost in the dose, but she says the level is fine, the reason for a lack of energy lies elsewhere. Do any of you sleep with CPAP or other devices?

Keb wrote
Today I got to visit and get a brief tour of
an apartment complex near the city;
it's not a home, but it's for seniors only.
Liked what I saw; busy activities program
and much emphasis on community.
And it's a lease with monthly payments, like I'm already used to.
A place like this one might be a good intermediate step between
where I have lived and a full-fledged community/home

Where do you want to end up? What amenities do you want? Are you a gardener in need of a little space to dig, or do you have musical instruments to move in (and practice without disturbing others)? Are you wanting a pet? Are any of the people you know in this area staying here and will continue to be friends when you move?

A friend of mine moved from Texas to Arizona (Green Valley) and lived there for about 15 years. Her tiny house had a postage-stamp sized yard for gardening and the community center had a lot of activities she participated in. A couple of years ago she decided it was time to move closer to her family (almost all in Texas now) and has moved back to Texas and in with her oldest son (she turns 90 in May.)

A different friend has just taken her husband off of the PT he was on (he has a brain thing that isn't actually dementia but the result is the same). He was hospitalized last week and when he returns home will be in a hospice program because the PT wasn't helping and this will at least provide more of what he needs at home (help for her, Depends, etc.) It's a difficult decision, but maybe like Jimmy Carter he'll be comfortable enough to stick around for a while.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 21 Feb 24 - 04:32 PM

Where I have lived for the last fifteen years, I have been in such persistent isolation that I know hardly anybody and have no friends to lose.
I don't dig in gardens, nor do I have musical instruments to move.
Although I have given thought to one of those portable keyboards,
don't they have some with headphones so that only you can hear what you are playing,
or am I making that up out of wishful thinking?

So an apartment complex with active seniors and a full roster of activities
would be a big improvement over where I was living before I got into treatment.
The buildings are on the edge of a municipal park, good for walking, in a good residential neighborhood.
The community amenities include two meals a day in the dining room,
and light housekeeping once a week.

The staff and administration get rave reviews for being hard-working, well organized, and genuinely dedicated to the well-being of the residents --
I mean reviews literally, from multiple sources.
They work hard to make the community inviting and welcoming.
The complex is large enough that a resident can retreat for some downtime without being missed, if need be; not so small as to feel totally exposed all the time.
I do wish they had public computer stations, but I didn't see those; some places have them in a sort of community library space.

The complex is "independent living" although residents who are frail or ailing can get assistance at an extra cost.
It is not a community with "assisted living" as such.
I just don't feel ready for
a community that also has assisted living and memory care on the same campus.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 23 Feb 24 - 07:06 PM

Senoufou/Eliza, I am so sorry to hear about the gall bladder illness.
I still have my gall bladder, but I well remember the time it acted up, I felt miserable.

Here's hoping the NHS will get you that surgery sooner rather than later.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 25 Feb 24 - 10:48 AM

In other news, my brave, brave kid has pled Not Guilty By Reason Of Insanity. Now it's out of my hands, which is not stress-relieving at all.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 25 Feb 24 - 06:07 PM

Mrrzy, this has been a very long time coming.
You must find it overwhelming.
Take good care of yourself, you deserve it.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 26 Feb 24 - 11:22 AM

Thanks, k. It has been a slog.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Helen
Date: 26 Feb 24 - 01:09 PM

keberoxu, the apartment complex you described on 21 Feb 24 - 04:32 PM seems very similar to the retirement village my Grandma lived in when she was about 70, when she decided that her house and big garden was getting too much for her. She was very happy there. She could live independently, do the activities she wanted to do, have meals and some housework provided, make new friends, be involved in group activities or spend time on her own, as she chose. The reviews there were excellent too. She moved to the nursing home complex when she became unwell in her mid '80's and passed away a few years later. We always knew she had chosen an excellent place to live, at every stage of her life needs.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 29 Feb 24 - 02:08 PM

Mrrzy, your son's story has spanned so much time I've lost track of all of the details or where he has been in recent months. I won't ask you for a recital of it and I won't go back and read for years worth of bits of the story - but in short, where does this place you as far as your cost and safety and access (or not) to him, etc?

Keb, are you any closer to finding a place to live that is more suited to what you want now?

Jon Freeman, we haven't heard from you in ages - how is your health and how are your parents? You were consolidating the help that came to the house so they worked with all three of you last time I saw your remarks about the household.

Sleep study tonight for me - since a general tiredness isn't due to low thyroid, it may be due to the weird sleep of late. All of my life I was asleep right after my head hit the pillow, but that hasn't been the case for a while now. I do enjoy an afternoon nap, but not today; if they want to study my sleep then it behooves me to be able to go to sleep while I'm at the clinic. Friends who use the CPAP devices report great results, so I hope it is as easy is that.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 03 Mar 24 - 10:51 AM

Stilly, I have used a CPAP device for some time, and it does make a difference.
The apartment thing is not going to be settled quickly.
I'm still in treatment as I occasionally take time to travel to the apartment
and clean it out a little at a time.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Mar 24 - 02:03 PM

Senoufou, have your doctors taken pity and moved you closer to the surgery date? If it becomes an emergency situation will they take care of it right away?

In the "not afloat" category, the US did food drops into Gaza, but that is a program of last resort, a way that Biden can do something that the Republicans can't shut down.

According to a 2021 report by the World Food Program, airdrops, in addition to costing roughly seven times what ground-delivered aid would cost, can deliver aid in smaller amounts than truck convoys, and require a significant amount of ground coordination in the delivery zone. . . .This is likely why deliveries have been aimed at beaches, but sometimes, as with the airdrops by Egypt, Jordan, the United Arab Emirates, Qatar and France, that results in aid falling into the sea. In the case of another Jordanian effort on Thursday, the wind carried some of the aid over into Israel.

I wasn't aware of the airdrops by those other countries. Anything is a help, but it is far short of what is needed. The ability of the US government to function is tied to the fortunes of the Palestinian people and the people of Ukraine right now.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 06 Mar 24 - 04:28 PM

No cost, Stilly, just the uncomfortable feeling of things being so completely out of my hands. It'll be up to a jury, and I won't be there to read their faces and hear what is said. But I toiled diligently uphill through deep snow to get to this place, so, good...

And yes, Senoufou, do report in.

Good going, keb! That's always been my best approach. Slowly but surely breeds success, or something.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 06 Mar 24 - 06:54 PM

Thanks, Mrrzy. I really needed to hear that today.
I'm thinking of Senoufou as well,
hope that chance favors her and she gets the procedure done soon.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 Mar 24 - 07:57 PM

Dorothy Parshall posted on Facebook recently that she was angry and frustrated and being ignored when she complained about symptoms and when finally someone sent her to a private doctor they found the cancer. I put a link to her FB post over in the Declutter thread; this is a toss-up between here or that Jane's Rainbow thread, but Dorothy is nothing if she isn't afloat. She's getting treatment and good care from her partner.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Senoufou
Date: 07 Mar 24 - 01:32 PM

Thank you all for your good wishes. I still haven't heard from the hospital about my operation to remove my gall bladder. There are very long waiting lists due to the doctors' and nurses' strikes. I'm coping quite well taking painkillers and lying down as much as possible.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 09 Mar 24 - 06:32 PM

The question arose a few days ago as to why I want to leave the apartment.

Although the apartment itself has nothing wrong with it,
I went through years of isolation and depression there.
I really need not to go back to that physical place to live,
for fear of going back to the psychological stuck place that I was in.

When I moved into the apartment, for reasons too tedious to go into,
no re-do was done of the premises;
so it had the same old wall-to-wall carpeting and appliances and all.
THere are advantages to that, too,
but it made for a rather dingy-looking place.
I actually had visitors comment on the old carpet,
and not favorably, either.

Therefore, it is more or less time to move on.
I have a lot of work to do before I am ready to pack everything out.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 26 Mar 24 - 07:21 PM

Senoufou/Eliza, it's been over a month since you reported to us
that your gall bladder would have to be removed.
How are you holding up?

I don't know how to verify what is happening to me,
but it seems as though the depression is lifting somewhat.
From my experience, things may feel worse before they feel better --
buried emotions coming to the surface can be very uncomfortable and unpleasant.
I have to have faith that this is a healing process
and that things do get better with time and effort.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 26 Mar 24 - 11:27 PM

Hoping the clouds keep lifting, k!

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 30 Mar 24 - 08:12 PM

There is some difficult stuff coming to the surface.
I have the good fortune to be in contact with my first counselor from years ago,
when the repressed buries memories were first coming to the surface.
We gave up our counselor/patient relationship twenty years ago,
and we have stayed in touch and can "talk" as friends, mostly by e-mail.

It is such a blessing to be able to confide in a true friend.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 01 Apr 24 - 10:53 AM

Indeed! Great!

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 03 Apr 24 - 05:21 PM

My practice now is acceptance of self, instead of judgment of self:
accepting that I have done the best I knew how to do
in order to take care of myself and to survive,
instead of judging how well or how poorly I did so.

The relief from changing this attitude toward myself feels so strong.
Strong relief and an overall lightness,
in contrast to the heaviness and darkness of depression
and the tension of anxiety.

It may not last, but I'll take it while it does last.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Apr 24 - 10:43 PM

That sounds good, Keb. Comfortable.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Apr 24 - 09:57 AM

For some reason I am reminded of a street saying, 'its not where you are from-its where you are at'.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 06 Apr 24 - 07:26 PM

A lot of old junk/trash from the unconscious mind lately.
The words 'open wound' figured in what came up.
Also 'safety'.
My therapist would call this a productive experience.
Sometimes this stuff hurts a lot.
Today I'm having to be very gentle and careful with myself.

Very near where I am staying, there is a Divine Mercy shrine,
and this weekend is Divine Mercy Sunday;
so there are literal busloads of tourists coming in and out,
and the services are amplified on speakers and can be heard for a mile or so.
Good time to stay off the streets.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Senoufou
Date: 07 Apr 24 - 11:58 AM

Thank you keberoxu for your kind enquiry. I'm still waiting for my operation, but the Norfolk & Norwich hospital is snowed under with a long list of patients awaiting their operations. Apparently it could be around 18 weeks before they get in touch. Meanwhile I'm in quite a bit of pain but hey-ho, what can one do?

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 07 Apr 24 - 01:00 PM

That's a dreadful wait, Senoufou! I hope something opens up much sooner for you.

Keberoxu, we all have varying degrees of open wounds as we progress through life; I once had a charming friend who caused a lot of pain and chaos for a number of people (we compared notes after his death). I recently revisited those wounds after reading the obituary of one of our mutual friends. I favor the "talking cure" to use words over medications for dealing with depressing issues, so decided to try a sonnet format to see if I can distill the old relationship (and an imagined outcome) into something that is resolved to my satisfaction. Are you familiar with the Mark Twain remark about writing a long letter because he didn't have time to write a short one? It's like that with a sonnet, they're short so take a while to craft, but are such a satisfying way to state the situation and resolve it all within 14 lines.

I've had a second sleep study (this time at home with a wrist device that connects to a finger and a wire to a chest sensor) and suspect that while it will again show some organic problems, mostly I need to mend my ways and develop a different evening routine that doesn't have me in front of the computer screen before bedtime. I've made a start in that direction already.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 08 Apr 24 - 09:08 AM

Computers vs sleep: The current theory is that too much blue in artificial light causes the brain to think it's daylight. There's software out there which changes the colour balance for computer monitors, which helps redress this: I forget the name of the MS-Windows product, but what I use with Linux is called redshift.

There's a similar blue caste to LED lamps; manufacturers do this because it makes the lights look brighter than they really are. LED lamps with a redder output may be available, and are worth looking for if you're intending to read in bed to help send yourself to sleep.

Hope this helps, Stilly.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 Apr 24 - 04:01 PM

It reminds me that I can change the color output on a couple of smart bulbs in the house, and it might be worth considering a programmable bulb in the office area for evenings. Mostly what I need to do is adjust my schedule so I'm doing different things late at night.

I have the phone and computer and tablet all set to use an evening routine that gives a more amber cast to the device screens. The thing that is most helpful is the schedule set up in the phone to not make any noises from 11pm to 7am. I used to have pings wake me; I don't turn the phone off that often any more (only periodically and usually to do with updates.)

Today's eclipse was fun - my nextdoor neighbors came over and we shared my pair of eclipse glasses - no one wanted to stare at the sun the whole time, glimpses were enough, and when the totality occurred it looked amazing; the camera can't do it justice, you have to just look with your eyes and enjoy the beauty of it. This is the kind of thing that is best not mediated by a camera lense between you and the thing you want to remember. I hope that anyone needing a mental boost today was in the path and could enjoy the occasion. It was a thrill to see it.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 11 Apr 24 - 04:32 PM

Today I was informed that my mother died yesterday.
Her passing was peaceful and my siblings were at her side.
There is no funeral, and her body was cremated.

Although we have been estranged for years,
and there is no shock at this news,
I find I am experiencing grief and loss.
I am actually very emotional and shaky.
I will have to go very carefully for a while.

I guess it is a good thing that I am in treatment,
as I can get the attention I will need, am needing now.
I'm grateful for this thread where I can share my grief.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Apr 24 - 04:44 PM

Of course you are grieving; the pain from whatever caused the estrangement returns full-strength at a time like this. I hope hindsight helps; having removed yourself from a toxic situation was a sound move and one you need to remember was necessary. (My reference for this is from a similarly toxic relative who caused estrangement in our family - cutting your losses and moving on with your own life is the healthy thing to do. If that relationship is beyond repair you only hurt yourself by leaving yourself open to more harm from them if you keep trying.)

That said, were there early good times with her that you can revisit and celebrate, so you're not throwing your own past away?

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 11 Apr 24 - 06:39 PM

The toxic family situation was generational, and the toxic part was in place
long before my mother was born. So it was tough on her as well.
She was a single mother with her parents living next door,
and she felt responsible for three generations of people at once.
It was a lot to take on even in a healthy situation.
Some of my mother's choices were better than others.
And yes, there were some happy moments.

I don't know how things are with my siblings, as we don't speak.
I think there is hope, though;
we are the elders now, our mother was the last of her generation.
In our separate ways, each of us is free now, in a way that we were not before.
I'm still keeping my distance, though, it is the healthiest way.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 12 Apr 24 - 11:56 AM

Aw, keb, condolences.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Helen
Date: 12 Apr 24 - 01:12 PM

keb, I am sorry for your loss and I hope you can work through the issues relating to your Mother and siblings.

It is the 22nd anniversary of my Mum's passing in two days so I have been thinking a lot about her this week. Luckily for me I have only good memories of her, so I am keeping you in my thoughts and hope that you can work through this and reach a lighter space in your life.


Stilly, I watched an excellent documentary about improving sleep recently, presented by one of my heroes, Dr Michael Mosley. Australia's Sleep Revolution with Dr Michael Mosley

There is also a site with some of his information.

FastAsleep: How to get a really good night’s rest

I used to have breathing issues while sleeping about 40 years ago but I had surgery to correct a deviated septum and the surgeon also recommended sleeping on my side, which I have done ever since. It helps a lot.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 16 Apr 24 - 06:41 PM

Thank you, one and all.
SOmeone asked me if I was experiencing grief in waves,
and I had to say, not yet.
I'm a thinker/doer, not a feeling/expression person,
although the emotions I do have are intense.
It seems I'm good at tamping feelings down,
and I must be doing a lot of that right now.
It means I can keep going and getting stuff done.
I guess my grief will surface when it needs to do so.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 25 Apr 24 - 11:01 AM

See good news thread! I have won the long, hard fight to get my kid to hospital instead of jail!

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Apr 24 - 11:52 AM

Good news, Mrrzy! That thread will be my next stop.

Helen, Thanks! I watched a program by Michael Mosley from years ago that had to do with different forms of fasting. I think he set off the surge in programs that tweak various types of intermittent fasting. (I lost 45 weight that way, but not using anyone's program. I watched my calories, keeping them to ~500 alternating days, regular eating the rest of the time, and got to the gym a lot). The program he hosted was Horizon, and he seems to have a lot of science interests (reminds me of the US host David Pogue, who came perilously close to that Titanic submersible that imploded in one of his programs).

I'm already finding that making myself leave the screen behind not only helps sleep but I'm getting to bed a bit earlier. Better quality of sleep is goal.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Helen
Date: 25 Apr 24 - 01:23 PM

Yes, good news Mrrzy!

And keb, I have been keeping you in my thoughts, hoping you are feeling ok and progressing well on your life plans.

Stilly, my Hubby & I used Dr Mosley's 5:2 fasting diet (5 days of regular eating, 2 days - but not consecutive - of 500 calories, with mostly veges and salad and lean protein on the 2 days) a few years ago and we both lost the amount of weight we were aiming for and kept it off. Now I cut calories without thinking on certain days and stick fairly well to the Mediterranean type of foods and very, very limited junk food. (I do like hot chips now and then, but I only eat a few now and then and I have probably only had a few shop bought burgers in any given year.)

I have seen almost all of Mosley's TV shows and I think he bases his work very firmly on reliable, practical science which works in the real world. For that reason, I trust his Sleep Revolution suggestions.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 Apr 24 - 01:32 PM

i have found this breathing exercise helpful, Pranayama is the practice of breath regulation. It's a main component of yoga, an exercise for physical and mental wellness. In Sanskrit, “prana” means life energy and “yama” means control. The practice of pranayama involves breathing exercises and patterns

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Apr 24 - 02:14 PM

Where are the breathing exercises directed? Grief, sleep, or dieting?

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 Apr 24 - 03:54 PM

7uey are supposed to help sleep anxiety and stress, they go under the name 4 7 8 breathing exercises
4 second in through nose hold for 7 seconds then breath out through mouth for 8 seconds

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 25 Apr 24 - 07:06 PM

Today was another difficult day.
Luckily there were people I could talk to.

Someone decided that my mother needed not one, but two obituaries.
They can be read online, that's where I found both of them.
The situation was this:
my mother stayed where she was born and raised until her father died.
Then she relocated across the country,
and lived her last forty years there --
of which roughly thirty years were in good health, before the end.

So the two obituaries were place-specific:
one for the area where my mother spent the early part of her life,
and another for the area where she relocated.
And yes, the obituaries were different -- related, but different.

In the place she came from, and published in their local newspaper,
the obituary did all the formal things,
identifying the pre-deceased and the survivors,
mentioning the parents and the upbringing,
all the places she went to school, and the divorce from the father of her children.
There was a brief paragraph about her relocation elsewhere, where she died.

In the place where she died, there was next to nothing about her life before she moved there.
Instead the obituary pretty much started with, "[name] moved to such-and-such a city in such-and-such a year," and went on from there.
Much attention was given to all the volunteering that she did in her healthy years there,
and to her time in assisted living and memory care. (Alzheimer's)

So it is almost as if she lived two lives in one.
ONe of my friends asked me who wrote these two obituaries,
and of course they never print the person who writes them.

Online obituaries can have photographs attached,
and both of them did -- completely different photos as well between each obituary.
I think looking at some of those photos was triggering for me a little bit, which is not surprising.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 Apr 24 - 10:43 PM

From the point of view of an uninvolved bystander, that dual-obit sounds kind of perfect. Takes in everything.

I've realized in recent times that my history fits neatly into ~ 20 year segments, with radically different things happening in each of those times. That the people in those worlds don't know much about the people in the rest of them.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 May 24 - 07:32 PM

keberoxu, how is the apartment declutter going? An occasional participant on the declutter thread (PattyClink) has just moved stuff from a storage unit to a new place via trailer (packing and moving it herself). Are you considering anything along those lines as you decide what to keep? Had you found a new area to apartment hunt (I don't remember)? How is that going?

Mrrzy, is your son comfortable and settling into his new routine?

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 22 May 24 - 03:01 PM

In thirty minutes, I have to phone in to a videoconference
with my mother's attorney, my attorney, and the bank.
I'm not looking forward to this one.
The last time I went through something like this,
the settlement of the estate of a recently deceased person,
was forty years ago, and that was the stuff of nightmares.

I just hope this occasion will be more positive and constructive
than that last one forty years before this.
But back then, when I was young, I didn't have my own attorney,
and I have one now, and this is her specialty,
so I ought to be all right this time.
I'm still emotional, of course, about losing my mother.

So I'll eventually report back on how it goes,
I may need time to compose myself afterwards.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Helen
Date: 22 May 24 - 03:39 PM

keb, I hope it all goes well. Think positive and focus on the good times you remember. Keep calm and carry on.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 23 May 24 - 07:20 PM

The conference call went better than I could have imagined.
It's the difference between night and day,
the way it was forty years ago versus yesterday.
I was actually treated like an adult.
The bankers and attorneys were on their best behavior, faultless manners,
and they were eager to be of service.

It's partly because they were on the clock, but it was astonishing
how much information got crammed into thirty minutes.
AND I could understand most of it,
at the same time I did not feel that they were talking down to me.

There was even a timeline given that explained how probate and everything are going to take a long time,
"everything" meaning the IRS for the most part.
It was all laid out and open to questions and comments.

I'm still taking it all in. But in a good way.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Helen
Date: 23 May 24 - 08:24 PM

Hope for the best, but expect the worst - except in this case - because you were expecting the worst and you experienced the best. Yay!

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 May 24 - 10:11 PM

Keb, when I administered my father's estate I knew there was a sibling who would argue about everything, so all of my work was documented, and with the house contents I had an appraiser come in (recommended I don't remember how, but he was a local dealer and had booths at antique malls, etc.) That made it a lot easier in the long run. The income taxes had to go to a local accountant because of a bank account that I had inherited with a CD that matured before he died, and the tax on income that needed to come out of the estate. There were also a couple of IRA's that had direct inheritors to be noted and excluded from the total.

It all took over a year, maybe as long as 18 months (I'm not pulling out records to confirm my estimates). I'm hoping it's easier for you than it was for me. I did all of the work myself once (with a set of state-specific probate documents) then had to turn it over to an attorney to do the exact same thing I had already done because of the fighting sibling. Before it was over that attorney had a restraining order against the sibling, so it wasn't just me he was mad at. (And a more personal note - at the end of this I was diagnosed with a form of endometrial cancer that I am still convinced was brought on by the stress caused by that particular sibling.)

Here's hoping you're dealing with functioning adults through the process.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 27 May 24 - 02:46 PM

The residence where I am staying is on Main Street, and is next to an intersection with a War Memorial island.

So when the Memorial Day parade went past today, the parade stopped in front of the War Memorial and the servicemen made a gun salute.

Good thing I was outdoors watching, so I knew what was happening.
Hearing that close-quarters gun salute inside the residence would have scared me.

The weather is fickle today. We are in for thunderstorms late in the afternoon.
Fortunately it was bright sunshine during the parade at noon.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 01 Jun 24 - 10:11 AM

This is a good time to look back on the opening post to this thread.
That post speaks of a blood relative "operatically" dropping hints that they don't know if they can live with it any more.

That relative was my mother, who died in April.
She died in memory care, with my siblings in attendance.
So there was no suicide attempt;
she saw her life through, one way or another, to its natural end.

I might have known that those melodramatic hints amounted to so little.
From some people, hints of being unable to live with it any longer are serious affairs and cause for concern.
But in her case, it was business as usual, I'm afraid.

In fact, whenever she threatened something in anger or in tears,
the thing she threatened never came to pass,
whether it was a bad thing or otherwise.
Her volatile emotions would rage through her and consume her, temporarily,
and then she would snap out of it and forget everything she had said.

So in a way this thread has arrived at some conclusion,
since, as I say,
the troubled relative saw their life through to its natural end.

The drug-using relative is still alive and kicking, though.
And I'm still in residential treatment.
So the work, and the struggle, go on.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 07 Jun 24 - 07:17 PM

Then there is a de-clutter that is years overdue in my apartment.
I"m thinking seriously of getting professional help with this one,
not because it has gotten that bad,
but because my health and attitude are kind of fragile.
I have to do something about it this summer.

This at the same time I am considering moving to a retirement community.
The two are related, as I would be leaving a two-bedroom apartment
for the community's one-bedroom apartment,
so downsizing is inevitable, and I have to let go of things.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 07 Jun 24 - 07:41 PM

Keb, I visited a friend's house this afternoon because she had some fabric and notions for me or my daughter. I knew her kids were working on the house, and when I walked in I could see it is a major intervention in a hoarding situation. I'd considered messaging the older daughter to ask if they had plans, but they took the initiative themselves.

My participation today was to take away a number of usable items they don't need that can be offered on the buy nothing or free sites in my area. It wasn't a lot, maybe a cubic yard of stuff, but every little bit helps and my friend is ok with it. (Resigned?) They do ask about things, they're not just rolling over the top of her. (Her yard is piled with big stuff like furniture that is functional but surplus - I told them about the groups I'm using, the FB buy nothing and Freecycle, and I think they'll join and start listing this weekend.)

I don't suppose you have any younger relatives out of college for the summer looking for a job to do for a while? To work beside you on the task? I think the fact that all three of her kids (plus one friend of the kids) are there at the same time makes my friend so happy the sting is mostly gone from the reason they're doing the work.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 10 Jun 24 - 06:32 PM

No, no younger relatives who need a job to do.

Tomorrow I see a general surgeon who is going to remove a cyst;
it's under my scalp.
It got infected, and we've cleared up the infection;
but these things tend to recur,
so the only way to stop it is to get the cyst out.
Tomorrow is just the consultation,
the surgery has not been scheduled yet.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 16 Jun 24 - 10:47 AM

I read about Helen's two recent falls; now I've forgotten
which thread she posted to, but I read her posts.
I'm really sorry to hear about that;
I had a couple of minor falls late last year,
and they were like warnings really,
more a shocking experience than a really damaging one.
Sounds like Helen was actually seriously injured. I'm sorry!

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 16 Jun 24 - 11:24 AM

Keb (and Helen) I use the exercise program Essentrics, it's from a Canadian former-ballerina Miranda Esmonde-White. She talks a lot about doing some of these for better balance, to help prevent falls. They play some of her programs on PBS (usually before dawn - never a time I'm up to exercise) and she has DVDs as well as a site you can join. And I bet if you search on balance exercise you'll find similar through Silver Sneakers or other insurance company sponsored programs. I think the exercises really do help.

Did you already do the cyst removal? If it has the same annoyance factor as a few moles I've had removed over the years you'll be glad to have it gone.

Mrrzy, how are things going for you, health and family-wise (that you'd care to share).

Heat is here, so now it's a matter of going in and out to do things and cool off before doing a little more. I'm never very good at getting up super early to work, so I pace myself when it is hot. And it is about time to put the cooler on the porch with water for the mail carrier and other delivery folks. I've done this for several years, an on one instance the UPS or Amazon driver stopped and thanked me - told me they didn't have a delivery here one day but knew about the water and stopped to grab a bottle. That's fine - it's there for folks who are spending their day in the heat and need a drink now.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Helen
Date: 16 Jun 24 - 03:49 PM

Thanks keb & Stilly,

I posted it to the thread called Obit: Dr. Michael Mosley - UK physician/journalist because the autopsy has revealed that he possibly had a fall and that heat exhaustion probably contributed to his death.

I broke the radius bone in my left wrist, also crushed the carpal tunnel nerve and had surgery, a cast, then a splint for a couple of months, couldn't drive, couldn't play harp for those two months as well - that was the most difficult bit to live with - but it is very close to back to normal with only a very small amount of numbness in the fingers. The funny thing was I broke it on the afternoon of Halloween. Spooky! LOL

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: robomatic
Date: 16 Jun 24 - 04:31 PM

If you're familiar with the concept of running a diagnostic routine on a piece of software - for years I've run a self-diagnostic. I recite a litany of doggerel with a few formulas. I can do it internally (fully silent) or aloud in front of a mirror. Well, after doing this for a number of years, I experienced substantially mental fuzziness and I could not get through the recital. Went to Emergency. Whatever it was was temporary and have had no recurrence. I was impressed by the rapidity with which they accepted my reason for being there.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Helen
Date: 16 Jun 24 - 04:48 PM

And Stilly, I'll check out the Essentrics exercise programme.

I saw a Michael Mosley programme where he tested people by getting them to stand on one leg and then timing it. The younger people could hold it for longer than most of the older people. I do a little bit of a balance thing when I am waiting for something to cook on the stove, or waiting in a queue by going up on my toes and then moving up and down, or going from one leg to the other, or standing on one leg to see how long I can maintain balance.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 18 Jun 24 - 08:02 PM

The cyst removal has been scheduled next month, to give the inflammation time to settle down, the surgeon said.
It will be outpatient surgery, the procedure will be new to me.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Jun 24 - 09:37 PM

I decided recently that it's time to visit a dermatologist to rule out any problems with a couple of existing spots. Appointments are a few weeks out so I'm on the schedule for early August.

Some of those balance exercises are helpful, but you have to keep doing them. Other of the exercises in the program I use most often (called Hinge Health, through my insurance company and via an app on my phone) are never gonna happen. The one where you bend your knee and grab your foot behind you (quad stretch) is one I've never been able to do. My knees don't bend that far (especially after knee replacement surgery).

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 19 Jun 24 - 06:52 PM

I, too, would like to know how Mrrzy is doing.
Didn't one son get married this year?

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 21 Jun 24 - 01:12 AM

Hello! I was en voyage, trying to get my French back, not reading English, but I'm back, great trip.

Keb, good to catch up.

One son's wedding is early Sept, yay! And I got a great suit tailored in France.

Other son, we won the Not Guilty by Reason of Insanity, he's in a real hospital, yay! I get to visit Sunday.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 21 Jun 24 - 03:09 PM

Great to hear from you again, Mrrzy.
And things have worked out happily for you, indeed.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Jun 24 - 11:03 AM

Mrrzy, Excellente histoire! Toutes nos félicitations!

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Jun 24 - 07:40 PM

Keberoxu, are you seeing improvement on the spot where you'll get surgery?

Senoufou, how are you feeling? Any closer to the gall bladder removal?

Helen, any luck finding exercises?

Last week I decided to take myself off of the statins my doctor put me on a couple of years ago. I've been reading a lot and concluded that the reasons for taking them are not good enough. Lowering cholesterol to prevent heart disease isn't actually rational and taking statins can make some cancers more likely. I picked up my copy (bought a number of years ago) of Good Calories, Bad Calories: Challenging the Conventional Wisdom on Diet, Weight Control, and Disease by Gary Taubes and from there have read several other things. The low fat/high carb diet isn't actually good for us, and add on lots of sugar in the Western Diet and it's even worse. So I'm resuming the gluten free diet I was on a number of years ago, and adding more meat protein.

And apropos of nothing, someone earlier today refreshed the Pesky Sarpent thread - for some reason that song has always been a earworm for me, and just reading the title was enough - it has been running through my head all afternoon.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Helen
Date: 25 Jun 24 - 07:51 PM

Er, aah, I forgot to look for the exercises. [mumble, mumble, embarrassed mumble] :-)

A long time ago my doctor tried to convince me to take statins and I said, quoting from Amy Winehouse, "No! No! No!".

Starting way way back when I read about the perils of high carb, high fat diets, and then reading the late lamented Dr Mosley and watching his fantastic TV shows especially about the 5:2 diet, I have built my nutrition around low fat, low sugars, low carbs, and more healthy proteins including legumes and a balanced amount of meat & eggs. Pretty much a Mediterranean diet, really. My recent blood test showed that although my cholesterol reading was 5, my good cholesterol was high so the doc was happy.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Jun 24 - 09:23 PM

It's the low fat part of that diet that is the myth of medicine. In the 1950s there was an influential doctor (Keys) who had a hypothesis about a low fat, high carb diet being the way to prevent heart disease. Thing is, any time a study came along that didn't concur with those findings, it was dismissed. A classic case of confirmation bias was going on; in the 1960s a Senate committee used some of Keys' staff to write a report about a low fat diet and it became the thing that science then had to catch up to. But it never has. The bottom line - eat bacon. It's good for you (and butter and cream and meats with fat. Your brain is happier when those are in your diet.)

I have been meaning to go back to the Mosley program about fasting - because while it makes the point that the time of the fast is helpful, you can eat what you want (watching the calorie count on the off days).

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Helen
Date: 26 Jun 24 - 12:34 AM

Hubby & I followed the 5:2 diet and had good results. It was fairly easy to stick to because there were only two non-consecutive days of a lower calorie limit, and that was easy with lots of veges and good proteins and very limited carbs, sugar etc. The last time we had a burger was a few months ago and we shared it because eating that much white bread in one go is too much. On the five non-fasting days we ate healthily, usually Mediterranean or similar, and as we began to lose a bit of weight our motivation to eat good food on the non-fasting days was higher.

To explain, I say low fat because we don't eat a lot of junk food apart from an occasional schnitzel and chips (fries) and very little white bread, but one of the last articles I saw about Dr Mosley was that he said fat is less of a problem than carbs and sugar.

There was a beautiful two-page spread in an Aldi supermarket catalogue a couple of weeks ago with a photo of a variety of fruit, veges, onions, garlic, mushrooms. I looked at it and thought it was an apt illustration of a major part of our daily diet, with only proteins, legumes and wholegrain foods missing. I kept the photo because it made me feel good about what we eat.

I'll admit there is the occasional bit of chocolate but I tend to make nut or fruit flavoured chocolates using dark cooking chocolate with the lowest sugar content I can find.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Helen
Date: 26 Jun 24 - 12:36 AM

This catalogue will disappear soon so have a look at the lovely

Aldi photo of healthy fruits & veges

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 02 Jul 24 - 11:31 AM

Not on topic, but that confirmation bias reminds me of archeological research in the Americas, when the dominant theory was that the Clovis people were first. So researchers would dig down to the Clovis layer... and then stop digging.

Took decades before someone thought to just keep digging, and discovered the prior civilizations...

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 Jul 24 - 11:41 AM

The bottom line - eat bacon. It's good for you" QUOTE srs

The World Health Organization (WHO) has determined that processed meat is a major contributor to colorectal cancer, classifying it as “carcinogenic to humans”. 30 grams of processed meat, which is just one hot dog or a few strips of bacon, consumed daily increases cancer relative risk by 18%.
Bacon that has not been treated with preservatives is OK, but to obtain that you have to know someone who has their own pigs and who gets it butchered without preservatives other than salt.
The only place in Europe where preservatives that cause cancer has been banned is italy, because they have a Parma ham industry to protect.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Jul 24 - 11:45 AM

Exactly! Great example!

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 Jul 24 - 02:04 PM

It's estimated that a little over 42% of American adults have obesity, while about 30.7% are overweight. Overall, more than two-thirds of U.S. adults in the United States are overweight or have obesity. Adults between ages of 40 and 59 are more likely to have obesity."

why is tha? is it diet?

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 13 Jul 24 - 03:29 PM

The outpatient surgery has been performed, two days ago,
and in another ten days or so, the stitches/sutures come out.
The procedure was stressful, less said the better.
As long as I leave the site alone, there is little pain.

Meanwhile, I am in touch with
the director of the chorus I sing with,
which has the summer off.
The director wants, next spring, to perform
Haydn's The Seasons, in English translation.
I'm going to show the director a copy of the vocal score
to see if he approves of its English translation
and wants to use that particular edition;
the scores will have to be acquired as
this piece is not in the choral library/repertoire.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 24 Jul 24 - 07:41 PM

Update on previous post:

the sutures came out two days ago.
There is more scabbing than I expected,
so I am having to go softly and carefully with that part of my head.

The chorus that I sing with during the school year,
just had a board meeting which established that
they have got hardly any money left.
The director is gloomily thinking of austerity measures,
including not hiring an orchestra --
so much for Haydn's The Seasons, in that case.
Donations are drastically down this year.
There is serious talk of grant-writing.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 12 Aug 24 - 05:59 PM

We haven't seen Mrrzy around here for a number of weeks. I hope all is well. Wedding plans, travel, etc.

Keb, are you back to your old self now many weeks after the cyst? And is the estate work moving along?

Senoufou, it must be close to time for you to finally be on the schedule for the surgery. I hope!

Last weekend I emailed a book review to old friends who have lived in West Texas for about 20 years, but who were some of my first friends in the neighborhood when we moved to Fort Worth. We don't talk often, but it is that kind of friendship where you pick up where you left off. Except this time I learned the husband passed away last month of a rare and late to diagnose bile duct cancer. I'm wondering if she will decide to move back to town now, in which case I'll do everything I can to help. She has her hands full with selling some extra property out there, but there are no children or siblings to make her work more difficult. The husband was 67 with a healthy lifestyle and the expectation to live many more years.

What reminders have each of you had lately that we should have our affairs in order?

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 13 Aug 24 - 09:47 AM

Keep healing, keb!

Thanks stilly! Fine, but frantic, indeed. At least the wedding is next month, yay, and my other kid did get long-term committed, yay again.

Beach next week. Then classes start.

Retirement is terrifically busy.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 15 Aug 24 - 11:40 AM

Mrrzy, good to hear how well things are going!

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 17 Aug 24 - 10:00 AM

Spoke too soon!

Woken up this morning by frantic call from friend, whose wife (also friend) is suicidal, can I come help. No, I am 6 hours away at the beach.

Next message from friend who is supposed to be my date at my kid's wedding, who may not make it because her sister is dying of pancreatic cancer, to say that SHE now has been diagnosed with a pancreatic insufficiency that might be cancer, they don't know yet.

Well, shit, is all I can say. Am at the beach. Nothing I can do, so I'm going to the beach. With my phone, though.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Aug 24 - 09:05 PM

Mrrzy, it might be best to leave the phone behind while at the beach. Give yourself time to absorb the salt and fresh air without the worry. Do you have a book for summer reading? Breathe deeply. Get the full value of the trip, it will help you work through the rest later, especially if there is nothing you will be able to do about it anyway.

I've been reading about health and diet recently; the amount of diabetes and pancreatic cancer is increasing and it has to do with the Western Diet. There's a lot we can do about that, but it takes research.

Last year I met a woman via a Facebook group and have been able to offer assistance on occasion; the goal is to not interfere or make someone dependent upon me, but to be a friend who can help occasionally. This spring she moved into a high-end building because the housing authority in town has placements with a few subsidized apartments for disabled/Medicaid-eligible people (the builders get a big tax break). She is finding that the mostly rich people in her building throw away a lot of things they should donate, and via bin diving has managed to round up and offer some interesting items on her Buy Nothing group. She is also able to sell some things and help her bottom line a bit. (Do you know how hard it is to get a bank account if your credit rating is low? She finally got a credit union account and is rebuilding that way.)

Yesterday I delivered two hard-case suitcases (rolling) and two sturdy gym bags to a homeless shelter for her. Staying afloat is a challenge, so I'm pleased that she's enjoying the bin diving in her building and with all of the activity is also still helping others. I'm pretty sure that minutes after I dropped off those items four people at the shelter with crumbling bags had a new suitcase or duffle to put their possessions in.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 23 Aug 24 - 03:10 PM

Now, if only we could hear from dear Eliza/Senoufou,
who hasn't been heard from in weeks at least ...
waiting patiently on the waitlist of the NHS
for her gallbladder surgery.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Thompson
Date: 30 Aug 24 - 11:36 AM

Diabetes and its evil allies are also increasing because of obesity, which is increasing not only because of awful diets but because of the accursed private car, in each of which sits one person dying of loneliness and texting and instagramming and tiktoking all alone while driving.
Talking of obesity, for those of use with swollen electricity bills, what's the deal on air fryers? Are they really that much cheaper to cook in than ovens?

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 30 Aug 24 - 02:16 PM

I believe this is a response to The Sandman "Dick" several days ago.
Funnily enough there is a discussion germane to this topic,
but not on this thread --
seek out the DECLUTTER thread instead to see
talk of transportation and of eating habits.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Helen
Date: 30 Aug 24 - 02:33 PM

Thompson, our oven takes at least 20 minutes to pre-heat and a lot longer to cook the food than our versatile oven-style (not basket-style) air fryer. We can use either the air fryer or oven settings on it, and for some foods like roasting vegetables, we use the oven setting and then air fry for a few minutes at the end to brown the veges a bit. We're happy with it and almost all of our food is healthy and nutritious, except for some potato or sweet potato fries now and then. :-D

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 30 Aug 24 - 02:58 PM

I have never fooled with an air fryer but I bought a clean used convection countertop oven I use all of the time. It is so much more efficient than the big oven in the stove when I'm baking something small. (I also use a microwave and have a bowl-and-lid-style convection oven for bigger things like roasted whole chicken or baked vegetables, etc.)

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Thompson
Date: 01 Sep 24 - 06:46 AM

Thanks, lads, both air fryer and convection oven sound great; I shall definitely invest in one when I'm a millionaire.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Helen
Date: 01 Sep 24 - 11:18 AM

I've never been called a lad before. How about you, Stilly? :-D

We struck it lucky. Just as we were about to look for an air fryer a catalogue for a well-known local store landed in our mail box and it offered an air fryer/oven combo for a little over $AU200, reduced from over $AU500. It has been worth the money.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Sep 24 - 01:22 PM

A lot of what ends up in thrift stores are the previous versions of things that people received for holiday gifts, etc. Excellent working crock pots, countertop skillets, toaster ovens, convection cookers, grills, many of these are still the best items to use instead of the new all-in-one devices. Every year at xmas I tell people please don't give me appliances. I like my cast iron skillets and versatile devices. My Mom used to get one-function things to try and they were soon neglected (egg cookers, hot dog cookers, etc.) I found a George Foreman grill for $3 at an estate sale (the plates top and bottom both heat, and the grill is sloped so grease drains, in my case, to a small plate put in front of it.) Fish, beef, pork, chicken, any kinds of meats, but you can also stack on cut vegetables and drizzle olive oil, etc for a great fast meal.

Family and friends know for my fondness of thrift stores so will let me know when they need something. My ex had an expensive and well-used older bread machine in which the bread tin inside had cracked. Could I find another of the tins? I ended up finding a bread machine that had the tin but was missing the rubber gasket and beater bar for kneading (for $20). He ended up putting his gasket and beater in the new tin and started using the much newer machine. Marrying devices like this means less stuff in the landfill and doesn't trigger a sale that indicates a manufacturer should make more.

Modern industrial nations are so wasteful. As a way to run an economy Capitalism can bring out the worst in investors and businesses who make things instead of building the best and fixing them when needed. Planned obsolescence is an obscenity.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Helen
Date: 01 Sep 24 - 03:36 PM

I'm a big fan of op shops (i.e. opportunity shops), and secondhand stores.

I have also been a big fan of cast iron cookware. I bought a large frypan/skillet probably nearly 50 years ago from a camping supplies store and I use it almost every day. I had a large cast iron casserole dish which I used a lot but then I found an enamel version and I use it for slow cooking recipes.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 02 Sep 24 - 06:32 AM

> Planned obsolescence is an obscenity.

*Agree*, Stilly. The rot for me set in with the transistor radio, which was *only* *just* repairable with a soldering iron and a bit of native wit .... once everything got merged into single-purpose chips, that were that.

But the repair instinct does have a downside if it isn't shared with one's spouse. I've inherited my father's DIY and hoarding habits, while Herself is a minimalist; we've evolved rigid areas of doubt and uncertainty to minimise conflict.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 04 Sep 24 - 09:04 PM

Yikes. Wedding rehearsal tomorrow! It begins!

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Sep 24 - 09:59 PM

Good, Mrrzy! We look forward to your account of how it goes!

A friend I've described before, who is on a housing voucher living in a high-end apartment downtown (the corporation gets a huge tax break when they allow for a percentage of subsidized apartments) continues to amaze us with her account of things she finds in the trash rooms of the building. She is slowly building an income from selling things that people have thrown away; most of it she offers for free to clear the space in her small apartment and to pass on to others who need these things, but the items she can sell help her bottom line. She's a survivor and I am proud of how smart she has been to make this work for her. Dumpster Diving is an art and a science for survivors.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 05 Sep 24 - 03:07 PM

Mrrzy, you're in the home stretch! Keep it up!

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 20 Sep 24 - 02:25 PM

Keb, are you fine, is that why this thread took some finding?

Wedding will get its own thread if required. It was grand.

But after the wedding, whew did I crash, emotionally. I knew there would be *a* crash, after trying all year to get one kid into hospital and the other twin successfully married, so I was braced, but woo baby it got really, really bad. Actually it started between the rehearsal and the wedding. It got better, took about a coupla weeks, OK now. Hadn't had that kind of anguishing agonizing desperate hyper-ultra-sadness in absolute decades...

Still trying to figure out what I was so sad *about* - working on that. Some was just the let-down after success in arduous projects with no other projects on the plate, but there was something deeply distressing therein. Which I prefer to think about than feel, being me.

In other news, The not-guilty-by-reason-of-insanity one is about to be transferred to the hospital where he'll be for the foreseeable future, so that is good. They'd been waiting for a bed, paperwork had been done a while back.

And the newlyweds will be back from honeymoon (Sligo for her, Bruges for him) tonight, woot. I got occasonal pix, even! Woot again.

Love you all!

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Sep 24 - 09:20 PM

It sounds like you managed to work your way out of that crash fairly promptly, Mrrzy. Good for you!

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 21 Sep 24 - 11:15 AM

INdeed, good for you, Mrrzy.
Mental health is such a precarious, even treacherous, area. I'm sorry you had to go through that. I hope you weren't alone and that you had support to call on when your need was greatest.

As for me, my head bump is behaving itself since the surgery; there is still a bump there but it is no longer infected.
I just had two vaccines in three days' time,
the flu shot in one arm and the COVID vaccine in the other.
So now, both arms hurt like heck,
and I feel under the weather.
At least I know it will pass.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 24 Sep 24 - 07:33 PM

Indeed. Good to hear!

Honeymooners back. Luggage is another story.

Still not well but out of despair. Doing things about it, though!

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 01 Oct 24 - 09:20 AM

Keb, how are you?

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 01 Oct 24 - 01:27 PM

Keb is fine and celebrating my 67th birthday today,
a birthday I share with the Mudcat itself.
Am especially pleased at how the decluttering and downsizing is going,
having just sold an extra bed frame to a nice family one town over.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 05 Oct 24 - 01:56 PM

Woot! Hippo birdie all around!

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 Oct 24 - 03:18 PM

We are a month out from the presidential election so my village now allows political signs in yards. I'll be mowing then strategically placing two Harris/Walz signs. I've ordered one for the senate race (against Ted Cruz). It will join the others as soon as it arrives. The next door guy has a Trump banner on his house.

My neighbors across the street have put up Democratic signs in the past, but they've both been unwell and are about 90 now. Not doing so much. So I'll be sure to put my signs so they can enjoy them any time they look out. Staying afloat here and buoying the neighbors.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 06 Oct 24 - 05:04 AM

The thread title continues "...... while others don't". Our US friends will sink or swim together on this one.

The post of 05 Oct 24 - 03:18 PM belongs in the "BS: American Presidential race 2024" thread, not here.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Helen
Date: 06 Oct 24 - 06:20 AM

Whatever the outcome of the election, some will be floating and others won't and there is a lot riding on that outcome.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 06 Oct 24 - 06:27 AM

That doesn't change the fact that the post belongs elsewhere.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 Oct 24 - 12:07 PM

Doug, it is just fine here. The point is that the neighbors across the street aren't doing so well now, so the signs are a boost to them. You don't have to read between the lines to understand that simple point.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 Oct 24 - 12:43 PM

Lots of videos of Western North Carolina and other places where many are having to start over, where "staying afloat" is simply to have stayed alive during Hurricane Helene.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Thompson
Date: 06 Oct 24 - 04:44 PM

Mental health is indeed precarious - most tragically for those cursed with psychotic illnesses. Which makes it particularly excellent (fingers crossed) news to hear that for the first time in 50 years a new medicine for schizophrenia has been launched. It doesn't cause the raging hunger and resulting fat that the current medicines do, or other side effects, though it does have nausea as a nasty side effect. Only available (at US costs) in the US so far: Cobenfy

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 09 Oct 24 - 10:59 AM

Mental health is indeed precarious for we who have mental health conditions- mine took a nosedive recently, but I am being monitored. And drugged, for the 1st time in over 5 yrs. Gabapentin, anyone?

Overreacting to real things. New term: statastrophizing. Using statistics to catastrophize.

It got very bad, though, before I realized how bad it was getting. But as soon as the plastic bag I took off my sunny paper said, you know, you could put me over your head, I called my shrink in.

Better now, on a slow upswing. Not yet well enough to be watching for the overshooting, whee, still just trying to climb out of the hole.

Cooked with knives today, which I'd been unwilling to risk. Tiny cut on fingertip. Thought, serves me right.

So, not well yet. But definitely better.

And someone else is doing all the driving, but that's because I am drugged to the gills on this stuff. Enjoying that part, actually...

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 09 Oct 24 - 03:28 PM

Mrrzy, I'm thankful that you got the help you needed,
and that there is medication that helps now.
Did the bride and groom ever get their luggage back?

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 10 Oct 24 - 12:37 PM

Yes on luggage, only one day late.

And just for fun, broke 3 bones in my foot last night. Whee!

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Oct 24 - 01:43 PM

Mrrzy, someone in my Facebook friends recently posted a clever cartoon to which I originally posted a "hahaha" Facebook response but then realized she'd posted it because she had broken a toe in the way described in the cartoon so I felt bad about laughing at the cartoon and changed my response to "wow!" Sometimes things deserve a laugh and tears at the same time. I hope you can sort that out in our responses!

Will you taper the meds at some point to see if they have done the trick and you can proceed without them? Does their making you loopier mean they can be reduced (because they're not as needed?) Understanding how your medicine works is probably as much work as figuring out that you now need it in the first place. Good luck with all of that.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Helen
Date: 10 Oct 24 - 03:04 PM

Mrrzy, I'm hoping that your current issues might be the post-adrenaline physical and mental slump resulting from your recent need to keep on top of family events. Rest and recuperation, pamper yourself, give yourself some time and space to recover and hopefully you will get your equilibrium back. Sending healing thoughts from sunny Oz.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Thompson
Date: 10 Oct 24 - 06:41 PM

Mrrzy, sorry the world is out to get you right now. It will divert its savage attention to some other poor victim when it's had its fun (in my experience).
Meanwhile, I'd recommend (from the first quarter or so) a strangely life-affirming book about a woman who takes her own life - but before dying, finds herself in a library full of regrets, where she can relive all the things in her life that have burdened her with regret, grief, guilt and sorrow. It's called The Midnight Library, and it's as comforting as a warm purring cat on your lap.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 11 Oct 24 - 05:12 PM

EXCELLENT cartoon! Love Strange Planet. I have been to that location, too.

Meds are for a month, said shrink. Don't want to taper yet, at any rate.

The purring cat reminds me of a different Strange Planet cartoon, where the one holding the cat says, It's vibrating, and the other says, That means it's functioning.

A purring cat is definitely functioning.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Oct 24 - 07:54 PM

Several years ago I started following The Oatmeal for the same kind of cartoons. And he has branched out into other products, particularly games and puzzles. My favorite jigsaw puzzles have come from there (and they are a challenge - this is the one set up on my sunroom jigsaw puzzle table now. I fall in love with each one as I work it, but the Great Wave (the parody of the Japanese wave) and the Dog's Nightmare have been favorites so far.

Knowing how to taper is a skill, and knowing when you're ready is also a skill. Good luck sorting them out.

Thompson, that sounds like an interesting book.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 14 Oct 24 - 09:39 PM

Indeed.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 15 Oct 24 - 04:14 PM

How are all of y'all?

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 15 Oct 24 - 07:37 PM

Today I got a tour of a retirement community, have had this in mind for a while, but haven't got round to it before today.
Looks like a strong candidate for my big lifestyle change.
I got a whole folder of paperwork and literature and stuff.
So many problems would be solved by taking this step. It's still a big one.
But this visit today left me feeling hopeful.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 16 Oct 24 - 08:53 AM

Well, good!

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Oct 24 - 12:18 PM

Police rescue injured man from tracks seconds before an oncoming train - a better story of police work than so many we see these days. Hopefully Harborview has a good psych ward to help him also.

I have a pooch in a t-shirt this week after a small surgery to remove a small fat mass from her side. Two years ago I didn't act quickly enough when she developed a similar mass that turned out to be mastitis - and that got bad when it finally blew up - so I promised myself I wouldn't let something like that go for too long. And the t-shirt means she doesn't have to wear the cone of shame, for which we are all truly grateful.

Small donation made to a former coworker's cause on Facebook - trying to offer moral support to what is apparently an issue in her family. Just in general trying to stay on top of things and help others feel better.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 18 Oct 24 - 10:40 AM

Dig it.

Am slooowly climbing out of my Slough of Despair. Tried to titrate down the gab(apentin), too soon. But I drfinitely feel better.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Oct 24 - 10:49 AM

What does Gabapentin do for you? It sounds like a moving target as far as the off-label uses it is prescribed for. The top answer I see when I Google it (without AI) is that it is prescribed for epilepsy, but then I hear about all sorts of other uses. The [new] vet tried to send some home for my dog a couple of weeks ago (we declined, she wasn't in the pain he thought she might be.)

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 20 Oct 24 - 11:14 AM

It keeps my mental hamster, Fortesqueue, off his tiny yet invasive wheel. Does a good job but I feel too drugged to drive. Luckily I can't drive right now because of my foot, so yay, driver.

Going to visit son in his psych hospita later today. That is never relaxing, but at least he's in the not-max-security place now, so I can bring him food, and pj pants...

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 22 Oct 24 - 09:15 AM

Lovely visit. Excellent deep philosophical discussion of free will v determinism. I have missed those!

Meanwhile I have finally turned a corner where I can take 1 gab in the morning and one at night, without having to add one in the middle of the day, yay. And the foot is almost ready to drive, so we are converging nicely.

How are y'all?

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Thompson
Date: 30 Oct 24 - 04:52 PM

Interesting piece in the Guardian about an experimental treatment for one of the most distressing symptoms of psychotic breakdown, The Voices.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 30 Oct 24 - 05:24 PM

Today I saw this and it doesn't take much time to contemplate the arc of what this guy is going to experience, in rapid succession, in the next few days, both socially and legally.

He thought he was so smart to grab the glove and the ball, but on live TV with millions watching and he is clearly identifiable, the fans are going to crucify him while the courts spoil his day. And he'll probably be banned from attending games forever.

That said, my one thought at the very end of the video is that the profile of this guy looks like Down's Syndrome - and that could be a mitigating factor.

I'm curious to see if this guy stays afloat or not. (It's possible we could all be really surprised.)

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 02 Nov 24 - 12:49 PM

So glad to hear that Mrrzy had a good visit with hospitalized son.
Those visits have to be good for the soul.

Yesterday I traded in my old car for a gently used car,
never an easy move for me as I hang onto cars.
But I have hopes this newer car will serve me well.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Helen
Date: 02 Nov 24 - 02:46 PM

Yes, better times ahead for Mrrzy and family, I hope.

keb, what a coincidence! I bought a newish secondhand car a few weeks ago and sold my 19 year old car which I have had for 17 years. I keep my cars a long time too but this one was for longer than any of the others. She's an old friend, part of the family but luckily she has gone to a good home. I put a For Sale sign on her, parked her out the front of the house, and a neighbour couple checked her out, test drove her and then paid for her within four days. I was panicking about driving the new car but I'm used to her now.

The funny thing is that I learned to drive just over 50 years ago in an FJ Holden which was as old as me, and which my Dad, a motor mechanic, owned and looked after like a member of the family, and the number plate on the new car has FJ in it. First ever car that I drove is commemorated on the last car I will ever own. (Dad's FJ was the light blue colour shown on that page of photos.)

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 02 Nov 24 - 03:35 PM

I heard part of that BBC thing on Voices, Thompson, fascinating, what a great idea.

Driving again taught me exactly which muscles I'd shredded at the ankle, by wow, pain up the shin and calf in truly specific fibers! But I love my stickshift.

Do you all do Halloween?

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Thompson
Date: 02 Nov 24 - 03:55 PM

Hallowe'en here is like a small echo of Gaza. Fireworks, which are, strictly speaking, illegal (from the days when people were liable to make a revolution with their contents) are ubiquitous on that night. Samhain has also become Americanised, with lots of plastic cobweb material (fatal to small animals and birds, plus plastic skulls, plastic spiders, plastic witches, etc, as well as the old-fashioned thing of gangs of children dressed up and made up going around begging for sweets - nowadays saying "trick or treat" in the American style rather than "any apples and nuts" as we used to. The kids were flawlessly polite, most taking only one sweet from my plastic boxes of plastic-wrapped chocolate, and thanking me nicely, before going out again into the explosives-riddled sunset.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Nov 24 - 05:41 PM

No Halloween, I turn off lights and stay away from the front of the house, but I didn't hear anyone walking around in the street, so it was probably another quiet year. Most years here are quiet. My dogs don't appreciate the kids and costumes, so we hunker down to spare them the excitement.

Keb, good news on the newer used car. With each couple of years a whole bunch of useful safety features come along so it's a good thing for you to have traded up. (I also miss having a stickshift; the last couple of times I bought cars I didn't have the leisure to search for something with a good standard transmission. Not all are created equal, so I drive a ubiquitous automatic.)

That baseball duo I linked to seem to be staying afloat - after that stunt they were only banned from one game and their admission price to that game was refunded. There will still probably be a social comeuppance.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 07 Nov 24 - 06:21 PM

The newer used car I am now driving is holding up as it ought to do.
Today was time for the registration and the state inspection.

Wouldn't you know, my old license plates failed the inspection --
the plates are "chipping." Everything else passed.

So it was off to the department of motor vehicles in order to
order replacement plates, which may take up to ten weeks, they said,
to be delivered.
In the meantime, I am driving with the old plates on
and a paper license tag taped to the rear window.
Sigh. It's always something.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 09 Nov 24 - 01:12 PM

Keb, I love how minor that is, as aggravating things go! Not that it isn't aggravating, of course, but Everything passed but the plates is a pretty good inspection.
i hate failing inspection on something minor like that.
I once had someone put the intact but now-unattached side mirror their poor parking had apparently removed from my car onto the roof of the car, where I'd notice it, at least. Forgot about it when I went to get inspected. Passed because the guy said Well, the glass has to be intact, and it is.
So sometimes it's the people, not the car. Did you have to get a Failed sticker?

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 09 Nov 24 - 02:54 PM

Right now the inspection sticker on my windshield is dated, which means it passed.
There may have been a failed sticker that had to go to the DMV to be processed. I remember the DMV visit but not clearly as I was that gobsmacked by the whole thing. Then it was also distracting to be told that the replacement license plates might take as long as ten weeks to be delivered. The temporary registration I have now (paper tag in rear window) is good for three weeks, and I can get extensions if the replacement plates have not arrived by then.
Of course the delivery of both plates and title will be to the apartment that is my residence, not the treatment center where I am staying. SO there will be traveling back and forth to keep up with things.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Nov 24 - 06:23 PM

Staying afloat - ditching Spectrum is a struggle - when you try to close your account they send you to the sales folks who insist on this and that - discount offers, you're paid up and losing 10 days of service - crap - it really helps if you have a Scotch before making the call. On hold several times. The last time she came on (after telling me my router doesn't work well enough - it's blazing along at 650 on ATT, nothing to do with being deficient) I have repeated I want to simply close the account. I paid the last bill, I am aware that there are a few days to the end of the enrollment month, I don't give a phuck that I paid for service I'm not using. Ditching that 800-pound gorilla is a pleasure. Good riddance. I feel better already.

I feel awful about the election results and have already dedicated these savings to monthly donations to the ACLU.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 10 Nov 24 - 10:11 AM

Yes, my credit card got compromised (well, I stupidly fell for a scam) so I am finding out about all kinds of recurring charges I forgot about, as they fail, because I canceled that card. Albatrosses, most of'm.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Nov 24 - 03:01 PM

A little bit of stress is good for body and soul. In fact it is healthy. Stress that is unrelenting over long periods is more dangerous.?

A cold bath or a hyperbaric chamber experience are both small stresses that can be good for you.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Nov 24 - 06:25 PM

Mrrzy I'm sorry to read about your credit card adventure. I suppose looking on the bright side you can cancel the accounts you weren't using. Save some money.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Helen
Date: 11 Nov 24 - 08:34 PM

I don't know if I said this before, but when one of my debit cards was cloned and a couple of transactions for Pizza Hut and a chocolate shop in Atlanta, GA showed up on my statement the very helpful bank service person told me a good tip for online shopping. She suggested setting up a specific account and only adding money to it just before an online transaction, leaving a small amount only to keep the account open. That way, even if that account is compromised there is never enough money in it to worry about.

BTW, when I saw a Pizza Hut transaction I literally laughed out loud. I haven't been to a P/Hut for decades. They don't have shops around here any more. The transaction stood out like it was lit up in neon lights. I only lost about $200 and the bank reimbursed it after a quick investigation to show my transactions around that date were close to home and not in the US.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 14 Nov 24 - 10:38 AM

Indeed, Stilly.

Meanwhile as was not improving on the gabapentin, they've added olezapine, aka zyprexa, and I like it, but oh, do I not want to be back on meds. But I am feeling better, and having more energy, and disorganizedly organizing. I couldn't stay on task but I got a lot done by the end, just doing everthing at once and nothing first, like a General Products hull encountering antimatter. But stuff got done, the hats are sorted, the clean clothes folded if not in drawers, the kitchen acceptable if you don't open the fridge. That's today's project, so here I am on the Mudcat instead. On verra.

And on the tower (Amphigory reference), they are looking into why both legs are showing weakness now, so this morning was an MRI for lumbar. Probably cervical coming up... and myelograms, or whatever nerve tests for legs. Then for hands, I hope, as I am really dropping things a lot, some of which break. Anybody know where I can get a lovely green glass chillum with stars engraved? Don't recall where I got it, malheureusement.

One immediate effect of the olzo was getting back into my body, as I hadn't realized I had dissociated, but the things that didn't hurt, like my toe, started hurting, as they should have been all along.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 Nov 24 - 12:06 PM

Mrrzy, it's always something, isn't it? I had to look up glass chillum, so that pretty much means I can't help you with that. Reminded me of a rainstorm decades ago in NY City - walking with a friend in Greenwich Village when the heavens opened. Approaching us on the sidewalk were two foot-patrol police officers. As the rain hit we all darted through the nearest business doorway and found ourselves standing in a beautifully set up head shop. Everyone was kind of surprised. I don't remember how long we stayed but I'm sure the cops left first.

New Internet provider set up this week, went through the fuss of installation and declining the offer of help (and sales pitch for bundled stuff) from the associate who arrives partway through the installation. I set up online bills and auto pay to lower the price by $10 a month - and the first bill arrived via email full price. A week into the plan I have to call and badger the billing department. That is probably why they give you a $100 gift card as a thank you for switching - it covers all of the nonsense in that first bill.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 16 Nov 24 - 11:45 AM

I got to dance in the sunshine for a couple of hours yesterday, in a parking lot where I randomly ran into a group playing old-timey music! Guitars acoustic and electric, fiddle, bass, lap steel guitar, ukelele, drumset, and the lap player also fiddled, and sometimes there was song. I was surprised at how many people just walked by, but a few stopped, mostly with kids, and only one other person danced. The icing on the cake was the fellow-dancer telling me about a dance coop, so I can go dance 3 times a week when I would never go *exercise* woot!

So last night I broke another *bloody* toe! Can you believe it!

It IS always something.

Meanwhile things are moving along in therapy about basics. Social behavior is a wave, not a particle. But in solitude, the particle has to actually exist. I do the wave fine; I have serious trouble with the particle part. We are working on that.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 16 Nov 24 - 11:55 AM

So sorry about your toe! Good news about a dancing venue. Not sure about the particle and wave bit - it sounds like a physics problem. Rearrange some of the letters and it's a psych problem. Good luck with either one.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 16 Nov 24 - 06:55 PM

Anagrams are therapy too!

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 16 Nov 24 - 07:24 PM

Kind of lost me, too, with the wave versus particle question.
I'm more of a which-way-is-the-wind-blowing person, I guess.
Sorry you have another broken toe,
but glad that so much else is going so well,
from the hats to the adult children.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 18 Nov 24 - 07:57 PM

Wave particle: 2 people together do not behave as either does alone. For instance, in conversation with someone, one speaker pauses, the other nods, then the first talker goes on. When talking to yourself, you don't pause for the nod from the audience. And if you pause and don't get the nod, it feels as if you are not being listened to.

Social behavior is a wave between the individuals being social with each other, while solitary behavior can be a particle.

Apparently, when I am alone, I cease to exist *to myself* - I can only be *me* in the context of other people.

What my shrink noticed was, as I was describing my day, that I only use the word "I" when with others. When by myself, passive voice gets used a lot, or at least use objects rather than myself as the subject of my verb phrases.

I have always had issues with being ignored, or left out... well, if I don't exist unless attention is being paid to me, by someone else, no wonder.

Sigh. Years more therapy.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 18 Nov 24 - 10:20 PM

Rereading - objects other than myself are the subject. Sorry.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 19 Nov 24 - 02:31 PM

Since the question was asked,
I"m spending Thanksgiving in treatment along with a number of other patients here.
We'll enjoy a small festive dinner (we sign up for it in advance) from the treatment dining/kitchen staff.

Mrrzy, the wave/particle explanation helps a lot.
Sounds like you have a good therapist, as well.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 19 Nov 24 - 08:27 PM

Indeed. You have a good team, too, it seems.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 21 Nov 24 - 06:56 PM

I am now on the waiting list for the retirement community.
The waiting list could take months or as much as a year,
so it had sense to go ahead and get on it already.
A deposit and paperwork were required, which I supplied.
I asked for, and was given, a copy of the packet for new residents.
There's a lot in there, including the standard agreement,
which reads like a rental lease in many respects.
I will have to study it all. But I have time.

The part that was new and different was all about provisions for death:
tell us where your will is and who the executor is,
and something about a power of attorney, and more besides.

For those who pay attention to such things,
Mercury is about to go retrograde through much of December.
Schedules, communications, and electronics tend to go haywire then.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Nov 24 - 07:40 PM

Good to know about the electronics, Keb - I'm getting a head start on that retrograde bit. Having your paperwork in order and people knowing where to find it is a good idea for all of us.

Interesting insights about self and other people, Mrrzy. The flip side of that would be those of us trying to figure out when to nod and when to stop talking or when to jump into a conversation. When the part of the transaction that is clearest is the "I" part and trying to grok others. (Not letting Musk own that word; it has been around much longer than Twitter).

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 22 Nov 24 - 08:48 AM

It may predate Agent X himself, Stilly: "grok" is in my first-edition copy of The New Hacker's Dictionary, and in its source document, the Jargon File*, which goes back in various guises to the 1960s. I decline to comment further on Agent X, as I've more respect for my digestion.

* I used to promote that at work as "How to understand your friendly neighbourhood MaJoC".

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 22 Nov 24 - 09:42 PM

Excellent therapist, indeed.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Nov 24 - 10:12 PM

Google Ngrams gives me Strangers in a Strange Land as a result. 73 pages matching "grok" in this book.

After the computer UPS exploded two nights ago (wasn't Keb on target with her astrological warning!) I've replaced it and set up the computer and equipment again (there was a small explosion and fire but nothing damaged and the old unit is out in the driveway still).

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 26 Nov 24 - 09:26 PM

Please tell me everybody knows that grok is from Stranger in a Strange Land.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 Nov 24 - 10:43 PM

I always thought it was - but the Ngram search was to confirm what I thought. :)

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 27 Nov 24 - 09:05 AM

I concede: it took a bit of digging (the shelves in our e-scriptorium* suffer from chronic books-behind-books syndrome), but The New Hacker's Dictionary acknowledges Strangers in a Strange Land as the origin of grok. It's between gritch and grunge.

--- Rats: now my first-edition copy of TNHD is getting even more loose-leaf. Perfect binding isn't.

* For completeness, Herself has a Sulkarium upstairs.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 27 Nov 24 - 11:23 AM

Please tell me everybody knows that grok is from Stranger in a Strange Land.

I had never come across the word until I read it in this thread.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 27 Nov 24 - 11:30 AM

Thanks Doug - I’d never heard of it either! Still don’t have a clue what it is…

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 Nov 24 - 02:44 PM

To save MaJoC having to pull out the book again, I'll dip into Wikipedia:

Grok (/'gr?k/) is a neologism coined by American writer Robert A. Heinlein for his 1961 science fiction novel Stranger in a Strange Land. While the Oxford English Dictionary summarizes the meaning of grok as "to understand intuitively or by empathy, to establish rapport with" and "to empathize or communicate sympathetically (with); also, to experience enjoyment",[1] Heinlein's concept is far more nuanced, with critic Istvan Csicsery-Ronay Jr. observing that "the book's major theme can be seen as an extended definition of the term."[2] The concept of grok garnered significant critical scrutiny in the years after the book's initial publication. The term and aspects of the underlying concept have become part of communities such as computer science.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 28 Nov 24 - 09:28 PM

Grok the fullness would be a good name for a band...

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 Nov 24 - 11:32 PM

Staying afloat - these days it is pitching between keeping occupied with daily activities and having silent moments when the stunning results of the recent election can erode one's sense of well-being. Of finding productive ways to put one foot in front of the other that will add up to meaningful contributions to the next election.

Tough holiday season. Trump is acting like a president even without having been sworn in yet, and there is no shutting him up. He knows how to push the media buttons. There are few times one roots for the criminal class, but if only the kid in Butler, PA, had been a better shot. I wouldn't even wish that on Nixon or Reagan, but Trump - a whole new ballgame.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 29 Nov 24 - 05:04 AM

Grok the fullness would be a good name for a band...

If I hadn't already looked it up in the dictionary, and was asked to guess what the verb 'to grok' meant, I would have come up with something quite unpleasant. As in:-

"He had so much to drink that he came home and grokked all over the bathroom floor."

By my definition, 'Grok the fullness' would have to be a punk rock band.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 30 Nov 24 - 10:13 AM

Going by the confusion, clearly the meaning of grok, unlike that of glark, can't be glarked from context.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 30 Nov 24 - 01:40 PM

The thread on the US election is a nice safe place
for people to do some much needed venting about
the troubling election results.

But I'm not going to post to that thread.
I'm just posting here to say that
I find the polarization wearying and pessimistic
and honestly don't find the words strong enough for the negativity of it.

I'm going to cope with it all by practicing what detachment is possible,
and thinking of the two sides, not as right versus wrong,
but that both are human, fallible, and need healing and grace.
I'm sorry if that sounds sanctimonious,
and it isn't that I'm any better than the people venting.
There just has to be a more humane way to live with each other
once one gets exhausted from the fight.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 04 Dec 24 - 06:08 PM

I'm staying in the town of Stockbridge
which is about to have the Today show descend upon Main Street.
It's about recreating a scene from Norman Rockwell.
I'm doing my best to stay clear of the whole shoot.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Dec 24 - 07:27 PM

Keb, I like your observations of Nov. 30. Good post.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 05 Dec 24 - 04:10 PM

Now lemme tell you about the town of Stockbridge, Massachussetts.

-Arlo Guthrie, somewhere in Alice's Restaurant

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 08 Dec 24 - 04:45 PM

The TODAY show has been and gone a couple of days now.
I was passing by when they were shooting,
and heard this huge cheer by all the people in front of the cameras.
Lucky for them, the weather cooperated, good conditions.
Today is the last day of the Norman Rockwell act,
tomorrow Main Street will be back to normal.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 09 Dec 24 - 08:30 PM

Keb, totz fun!

Normal, for Main St...

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Dec 24 - 06:50 AM

Keb, your observations of Nov. 30 assume that other people do things according to your own motivations and thoughts. This is a normal bias, but it does not reflect reality very well.

For example, if you assume an extraterrestrial has the same motivations and thoughts as we do, you would probably be misled.
The same bias happens when looking at another unusual culture.

It is practically a miracle, like falling in love when communication works perfectly. When friends are different species the bonds seem extra special like a man and dog, a gorilla and a kitten or a horse and its goat friend.

No the world does not share our thoughts such as

What the world needs now is love sweet love
no not just for one but for everyone...

peace on earth, good will to men.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 10 Dec 24 - 07:16 PM

Well, I now have the title to my new[er] car.
All i need now are the replacement license plates,
until then there is a paper license tag in the rear window.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 16 Dec 24 - 03:14 PM

Two choral concerts down, one to go.
We've had two snowstorms here,
and each was followed by a warming period that melted all the snow.
This melting is happening now, after a few inches of snow last night.
At least we are getting some precipitation,
the rain is badly needed as we are in the severe drought category.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Mrrzy
Date: 18 Dec 24 - 05:42 PM

It snowed for 10 mn one day, lovely

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 18 Dec 24 - 09:25 PM

And now we're having a steady soaking rain, which is needed.
of course, it may freeze overnight ...

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Dec 24 - 11:58 PM

I put the faucet cover back over the back yard spigot after doing some work this week that required a hose. We haven't quite actually had a real freeze yet; the basil is still green in the pots on the driveway side of the house though some of the sweet potato vines have slumped from the cold.

Odd weather this fall.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 20 Dec 24 - 06:44 PM

We are getting thick powdery snow overnight.
Just in time for tomorrow's choral Christmas concert,
a fresh coating of white snow on the landscape.
And it is to be bitterly cold, single digits Fahrenheit.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 22 Dec 24 - 03:29 PM

Winter solstice and no turning back, not even for the weather.
It is bitterly cold outside and
there is a coating of snow on the ground.

The choral concert was a success, although
it was difficult to warm up the church sanctuary for the concert
with the subfreezing temperatures outside.
Still we had good attendance and the audience received us warmly.

Now we get a couple of weeks off,
until it's time to rehearse for concerts in the New Year.

Subject: RE: BS: stay afloat while others don't
From: keberoxu
Date: 25 Dec 24 - 06:11 PM

Where I'm staying, we had
a combination Christmas/Hanukkah dinner,
complete with singing around the menorah.
A good time was had by all,
even if the apple crisp could have been a little better.
(besides, there's chocolate candy around)