Vegetarianism&Song Circles Oil&Vinegar!

Subject: RE: Vegetarianism&Song Circles Oil&Vinegar!
From: GUEST,Sooz(at work)
Date: 06 May 03 - 03:48 AM

HP sauce is brown, spicy and vinegary and comes in a bottle from the supermarket. My Mum used to say it would rot my guts. Hasn't yet!

Subject: RE: Vegetarianism&Song Circles Oil&Vinegar!
From: mg
Date: 05 May 03 - 09:59 PM

Dr. Enig is a biochemist. Here is the book I keep referring too..the original researcher was a dentist. Metabolic typing diet. William Wolcott and Trish Fahey. You can sign up for a free newsletter by Dr. Mercola who uses this concept a lot in his practice. I think we have been scared away from meats and dairy products, to the detriment of the health of many people who need them, assuming there is good animal husbandry, which most often there is not.

A lot of this stuff is emperical. You don't need a theory. You can measure improvements in your health by weight, temperature, blood sugar, blood pressure etc. And you will feel better. I know that I can lose weight by eating a high fat, high protein, high vegetable diet, and when I start adding in even good carbs I either stop losing or gain. The struggle I have is not physical...it is really quite easy to do this diet..but logistical and financial. It is more expensive, and it is not portable and everything is more complicated..shopping, porting it around on the bus, cooking more often, etc. You can't just take a sandwich to work for example...I also am one of those people who don't extract energy from carbohydrates..it all goes to fat..has to do with insulin resistance, which of course I know I have. So if you have weight struggles or health problems, read this book and Dr. Schwarzbein's books on diabetes. mg

Subject: RE: Vegetarianism&Song Circles Oil&Vinegar!
From: Jeri
Date: 05 May 03 - 05:18 PM

What's 'HP sauce'?
I've had okra in soup and liked it. That's what made me want to try cooking it. I like the taste of it, just not the glutinous nature. I suppose knowing how to cook it would have helped me a bit. Pickled would probably be fine, as would fried.

I'd suspect most vegetarians have healthier diets than I do. I don't eat much protein at all and I probably should eat more. I'm into convenience food. Thank goodness nice weather is arriving, as it makes it easier to just put a bunch of raw veggies or beans in a bowl and add dressing! (And BOY, did I gain a load of weight last winter! Pasta is a pretty convenient food too.)

Subject: RE: Vegetarianism&Song Circles Oil&Vinegar!
From: Sooz
Date: 05 May 03 - 11:23 AM

Here in Britain HP sauce is the classic condiment for the chip butty.

Subject: RE: Vegetarianism&Song Circles Oil&Vinegar!
From: PoppaGator
Date: 05 May 03 - 11:07 AM

It took me a minute to figure out what is meant by a "chip butty" -- I couldn't imaging it was anything made from okra, and had to look a bit further back in the thread.

It's a fried potato sandwich, right? (I do have enough international savvy to have learned that "chips" are what we call "fries" on this side of the Atlantic, and "crisps" are what we call "chips.") I had never encountered such a thing before arriving in New Orleans 30+ years ago, and did not know there was a British equivalent of this carbohydrate overdose.

The classic N.O. potato po-boy is basically an effort to duplicate the taste, and exceed the filling-ness, of the popular roast beef po-boy sandwich, without the expense of using actual meat. A liberal dose of roast beef gravy is the critical ingredient, which normally disqualifies the sandwich for vegetarians. My vegetarian guest figured he could ask the counterman to subsitute "red gravy" (tomato sauce) and came up with something he could eat, and indeed did eat with considerable gusto, once every day for over a week.

Subject: RE: Vegetarianism&Song Circles Oil&Vinegar!
From: Frankham
Date: 05 May 03 - 09:10 AM

Mary Garvey writes:

"Read everything that Dr. Mary Enig has written. She actually studies this."

There are a great many people who are studying this field. Many are doctors. Doctor McDougal is one who would be good to read as well. Also, it has to be said that doctors as a general rule are not acquainted with nutrition as much as dispensing medications and surgery. As to the individual body needing specific requirements, this makes some sort of sense until you realize that bodies have been conditioned psychologically to eat certain foods which are not necessary or beneficial. There is little objectivity here, as Mary says, but also a lot of misinformation propagated by the meat packing industry, the dairy industry, the poultry industry and other ancillary groups such as the medical people who rely on these industries to fatten their wallets. Drug companies are also culpable in this regard.

Frank Hamilton

Subject: RE: Vegetarianism&Song Circles Oil&Vinegar!
From: mg
Date: 04 May 03 - 12:14 PM

You guys, no one here knows whether you are eating too much protein or not. Your body knows and you override it with good intentioned fear mongering. Every person's needs will differ. Not only do some people need a fair amount of protein (like more than 2 oz per meal..or some would say 3 oz per day..the famous deck of cards) but some need the high purine protein found in red meat, some fish, etc. Some people need the saturated fat found in animal products. Read everything that Dr. Mary Enig has written. She actually studies this. A lot of what is passed off as nutritional advice is really a philosophy and/or religion with some nuggets of truth and some whoppers of misinformation. No one needs artificial fats and no one needs highly processed or refined carbohydrates. After that, the jury is still out, and a whole lot of the massive health problems we have are caused by people not eating what their, not your, body needs. mg

Subject: RE: Vegetarianism&Song Circles Oil&Vinegar!
From: Sooz
Date: 03 May 03 - 01:05 PM

It's taken me 2 days to realise that PoppaGator is describing a chip butty in his post! It hit me while I was eating one during an excellent concert at Wath-upon-Dearne Folk Festival this afternoon.

Subject: RE: Vegetarianism&Song Circles Oil&Vinegar!
From: Charley Noble
Date: 02 May 03 - 08:35 PM

Well, it's all over for them Brussel sprouts, the ones I found in the bottom of my parents' freezer while I was defrosting it today. Vintage 1973! I summarily tossed them out the woodshed door, where they produced a crater rivaling that National Park in south central Oregon.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Vegetarianism&Song Circles Oil&Vinegar!
From: Burke
Date: 02 May 03 - 07:24 PM

I left Louisiana over 30 years ago. At the time there were lots of veggies I did not eat, including okra.

My dad worked very hard to grow okra in Minnesota. That was not easy, even with hardier hybreds. I think I developed a taste for okra & tomatoes about the same time from my dad's home grown vegs. Once you're past the slime, the taste is soooo good! Much more worthwhile than, say, raw oysters. Or grits, that put me off by texture as a child & I still don't much care for.

Subject: RE: Vegetarianism&Song Circles Oil&Vinegar!
From: PoppaGator
Date: 02 May 03 - 12:13 PM

I forgot all about pickled okra -- excellent in Bloody Marys!

Subject: RE: Vegetarianism&Song Circles Oil&Vinegar!
From: GUEST,John Brown
Date: 02 May 03 - 12:12 PM

Linda McCartney might as well have eaten a little meat, and that goes for Eul Gibbons too! I got your pine nuts...right here!   JB

Subject: RE: Vegetarianism&Song Circles Oil&Vinegar!
From: Homeless
Date: 02 May 03 - 11:23 AM

Oh, man, how could anyone not like okra? But the best way I've found (outside of gumbo) is pickled okra. Better than pickled cukes any day of the week.

Subject: RE: Vegetarianism&Song Circles Oil&Vinegar!
From: PoppaGator
Date: 02 May 03 - 10:04 AM

Burke,

I don't have any first-hand knowledge of frying okra; I was only passing along what I've heard from others. (I was privy to a long message-board discussion of various vegetables about a year ago, as part of a technical writers' group dedicated to goofing off and discussing just about everything *except* technical writing. Quite a few respondants who had grown up in the South had fond memories of Momma's fried okra.)

We use okra pretty much exclusively for gumbo. When I first moved to Lousiana about 30 years ago, I had very limited experience eating okra and found it pretty disgusting. After my fist bowl of turkey and oyster gumbo, I had a quick change of heart about the slimy vegetable.

Subject: RE: Vegetarianism&Song Circles Oil&Vinegar!
From: Charley Noble
Date: 01 May 03 - 07:28 PM

My parents also used to steam eggplant, until it transformed into, what looked to my brother and I, a gelatinous pool of Irish Setter droll.

It wasn't till years later that I discover the joys of traditional Italian baked eggplant parmaginia. And, yes, I agree that even okra, suitably submerged in gumbo is fine!

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Vegetarianism&Song Circles Oil&Vinegar!
From: Burke
Date: 01 May 03 - 06:30 PM

Poppa, I've tried to fry my okra that way, but the cornmeal does not stick. I've also had it dipped in a batter, deep fried & with parmesian cheese on it. Doesn't Kentucky Fried Chicken have it? My grandmother could buy big bags of okra frozen & battered ready to deep fry in the Mobile area.

Personally, I like plain okra, steamed or boiled & a little butter. As a child I rejected it. Fortunately my parents allowed us to eat alternative veggies. I really do like it now, you get the full flavor.

Subject: RE: Vegetarianism&Song Circles Oil&Vinegar!
From: PoppaGator
Date: 01 May 03 - 06:06 PM

Okra!

This strange vegetable may have come from Africa on the slave ships --experts differ. Most agree that another name for okra, in one of the West African languages, is "gombo" or "gumbo," and the thick stew called Gumbo, usually containing two meat and/or seafood components (e.g., shrimp and andouille sausage) snd served over white rice, is the most palatable use of okra. The "sliminess" that can be quite disagreeable when okra is boiled by itself serves as a thinkening agent in a good gumbo.

Another good okra dish is fried okra: chop the okra into bite-sized pieces, roll in corn meal, and deep-fry. No need to dip the pieces in egg wash or any other liquid; the okra's natural, er, fluids serve to make the cornmeal or corn flour stick tight.

Subject: RE: Vegetarianism&Song Circles Oil&Vinegar!
From: Charley Noble
Date: 01 May 03 - 05:27 PM

Well, Frank, finally drew me into posting the first part of "Down at the Barnyard Dance" which as I recall goes:

It was late last night in the pale moonlight
That the vegetables had their spree;
They put out a sign, said "Dancing's at 9
And All the Admissions are FREE";
There was peas and greens, cabbage and beans,
It was the biggest thing you ever did see,
And when Ol' Cucumber, struck up that number
You should have heard them vegetables scream!

I used to sing it for our periodic food co-op benefits in Michigan, followed by "Dundebeck's Machine" or "Sweeney Todd the Barber" depending on my fancy.

No one, I think, has mentioned the "okra", that lovely slimey green thing that my mother used to like to steam up and pile onto my innocent plate, next to the leaks and brussel sprouts.

I was intrigued to learn from this joke thread that Hitler was not necessarily a vegetarian. I'll have to forward that info to Joel Mabus who composed a song entitled "Hitler was a Vegetarian Too."

What an amazingly educational thread!

Cheerily,
Charley Noble, who's getting hungry!

Subject: RE: Vegetarianism&Song Circles Oil&Vinegar!
From: PoppaGator
Date: 01 May 03 - 04:04 PM

New Orleans offers many great culinary alternatives for those who avoid meat but gladly eat seafood. However, eliminating fish and shellfish from the menu makes it a *lot* tougher to make any recommendation at all.

There's one excellent vegetarian restaurant in town, called "Old Dog New Trick Cafe." They used to be located in the French Quarter but have moved a few blocks uptown into the Central Business District.

Also, I believe the Middle-Eastern ethnic cuisine includes a number of strictly vegetarian dishes; Mona's, which has two or three locations, is excellent.

Bennachin's, an African (Ehtiopian?) restaurant, runs a concession at the Jazz Festival offering excellent vegetarian dishes, so one would assume that the same fare is available at their regular restaurant address.

Also, there is a large Vietnamese population whose markets and restaurants offer vegetarian meals. The two centers of Vietnamese culture are on the West Bank (not far from the center of town, but across the Mississippi River Bridge) and New Orleans East (more remote, well beyond the High-rise bridge out I-10 East, but within the city limits).

There are still a few po-boy outlets that serve an old-time favorite, the fried potato sandwich. This is normally a cheaper alternative to the classic New Orleans roast beef sandwich, a loaf of French bread stuffed with French fries swimming in brown gravy and dressed with lettuce, tomato and mayonnaise. A strictly vegetarian out-of-town guest a couple of years ago discovered this sandwich and ate one every day, substituting red gravy (marinara sauce, i.e., Italian tomato sauce) for the usual brown (beef) gravy.

By the way, his favorite source for this sandwich was Danny & Clyde's, a chain of gas station/convenience stores found in all the surrounding suburbs. Despite appearances, these guys produce really excellent, authentic New Orleans food for a very reasonable price.

For yourself and anyone else in your party willing and able to ingest seafood, I suggest you indulge in a lunch at Uglesich's, a wonderful little spot just outside the business district on the edge of a sdomwhat more downscale neighborhood. Originally a very ordinary working-class lunch spot catering to the employees of the large dairy operation across the street, this place turns out the most original versions of traditional local dishes, using the absolute freshest ingredients. Mr. Anthony, the owner/chef, is approaching retirement age and has no younger generation ready to take over. He closes for a nice long vacation every August, and each year we don't know whether or not he'll ever reopen. The place does not serve dinner, only lunch on weekdays, and there are only ten tables. Show up before noon to be sure to get in, and show up before August or you might never have the chance again.

Subject: RE: Vegetarianism&Song Circles Oil&Vinegar!
From: Susan A-R
Date: 30 Apr 03 - 10:57 PM

Say, Poppa Gator,
My truly vegetarian spouse is heading for New Orleans in a week. I was just there and had a fabulous time eating po' boys, meat, shrimp and other fishy things. Any suggestions for someone who really doesn't indulge in fish or meat? (Beignets are great, but I suppose he can't live on 'em for a week)

Subject: RE: Vegetarianism&Song Circles Oil&Vinegar!
From: PoppaGator
Date: 30 Apr 03 - 03:50 PM

Nice lyrics, that "Barnyard Dance" -- brings to mind the Danny Barker classic "Save the bones for Henry Jones, 'Cuz Henry doesn't eat no meat."

What a vegetarian would want with gnawed-down bones, I wouldn't venture a guess; however, the song is pretty entertaining. Sorry, I don't have it memorized, so I can't quote it in its entirety.

Subject: RE: Vegetarianism&Song Circles Oil&Vinegar!
From: Frankham
Date: 30 Apr 03 - 03:39 PM

k, you opened a can of worms or shall we say you are being pummelled with organic carrots of varying sizes. Before you are pelted unmercifully with produce, I think that we could all as you say lighten up.

I think what goes into a person's mouth doesn't necessarilly indicate what happens when music comes out of it. I believe that people should ingest what they want as long as I don't have to breathe it (second hand smoke). Everyone has the right to do with their bodies what they want. Anybody who claims they have a superior lifestyle to lord over someone else is just plain rude or stupid.

I think it's ok to poke fun at us vegans. We may be from a different planet, (The Planet Vega) not necessarilly more advanced in any way than anyone else but we are happy with our choices. We reserve the right though to turn the tables on cow consumption for a little fun as well. So, anti-vegans, "mooo--ve over." And we need to be able to express what we view as the facts without eliciting rancor.

The little turnip top did the backward flop
The cabbage did the shimmy and she did not stop.
The little beet shook his feet
And the watermelon died with a cockeyed heave.
Little tomater, that agitater,
Did the shimmy with the sweet pertater.
And old man garlic dropped dead with the colic...
Down at the barnyard dance (this mornin')
Down at the barnyard dance........Martin, Bogan and Armstrong wrote a great song.

Frank Hamilton

Subject: RE: Vegetarianism&Song Circles Oil&Vinegar!
From: Frankham
Date: 30 Apr 03 - 03:16 PM

Hi Pied Piper

You say,

"Your point about protien storage is correct, but vegetables also contain protien and an excess of vegitable derived protien would be excreted after breackdown into ammino-acids in just the same way as animal."

I say,

This isn't quite right. The body handles animal protein differently. It also handles cooked food differently than it does raw. The fats break down into trans-fatty acids which create blockages in the arteries. Veggies don't do this.

Frank Hamilton

Subject: RE: Vegetarianism&Song Circles Oil&Vinegar!
From: PoppaGator
Date: 30 Apr 03 - 03:07 PM

Yes indeed, white gravy is often poured over chicken-fried steak (which is a boneless piece of beef, ideally but not always a veal cutlet, battered and deep-fried in the same manner as fried chicken).

In the bad old days of the '60s folk "revival" or "scare," there was a whole lot of tobacco smoking (along with incineration of other substances as well). I can't count the number of times I saw a performer light a cigarette upon arriving onstage, and then stick the thing under a string up near the tuning machines at the head of the guitar neck. Just to add to the "atmosphere," apparently.

Here in New Orleans, there is *plenty* of smoking at all the live music venues (i.e., bars). Your hair and clothes smell pretty much like an ashtray after an evening out. Among the musicians, especially vocalists, there's less tobacco use than 10-20 years ago, but *way* more than "one out of a hundred" still indulge.

Subject: RE: Vegetarianism&Song Circles Oil&Vinegar!
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 30 Apr 03 - 11:21 AM

White gravy eh? Is that what I'd have had on a "Chicken Fried Steak"?

Boy customs are different in the different regions of North America. In Toronto, perhaps one out of a hundred folkies smoke. When I go to a Bluegrass show, practically EVERYONE'S puffing. At a Blues show, the musicians ON STAGE are smoking!

Cheers

Rick

Subject: RE: Vegetarianism&Song Circles Oil&Vinegar!
From: PoppaGator
Date: 30 Apr 03 - 10:54 AM

Good gravy indeed -- sorry about being too serious; those militant vegans can be pretty dern serious, and you caught me responding in kind.

By the way, white gravy -- at least, as served over biscuits in Texas -- is far from meatless. It's made outta fat ( skillet drippin's), if I'm not mistaken.

If I may, let me introduce some thread creep here:

Those vegetarians who are dictating your potluck menus -- are any of them chainsmokers? I've encountered this more than once in the past, and considser it the height of hypocrisy. After all, if you don't want to eat meat, you can pick and choose your selections from the buffet, but if you are offended by / allergic to secondhand tobacco smoke, there ain't a damn thing you can do about it.

Subject: RE: Vegetarianism&Song Circles Oil&Vinegar!
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 29 Apr 03 - 08:02 PM

Well actually Homeless....that WAS the joke. The food at Toronto Song Circles has become vegitarian based.

Rick

Subject: RE: Vegetarianism&Song Circles Oil&Vinegar!
From: Homeless
Date: 29 Apr 03 - 07:15 PM

Good Gravy! (Can I say gravy on a veggie thread? (I guess if it's white gravy it ought to be okay.)) Rick's right, everyone is pretty serious on this thread.

BTW, Rick, shouldn't that be oil & water, rather than oil & vinegar?

Subject: RE: Vegetarianism&Song Circles Oil&Vinegar!
From: PoppaGator
Date: 29 Apr 03 - 05:13 PM

I feel no need at all to quantify the exact amount of meat you should eat, Homeless, although MMario's mother seems to have a reasonable suggestion.

If you thought I was "shaking my finger" at you as a carnivore, you probably *do* need to cut down on that read meat just a little bit.

My intention was to offer some constructive criticism to the vegetarian camp, while granting some of their most valid and obvious arguments. My point was that complete elimination of meat from the human diet is neither healthy nor is it ever likely to happen, even granting that overindulgence in meat is no good for society, for the environment, nor even for the individual consumer.

If the human community is clear-cutting rain forests to raise beef cattles for fast-food industry, something obviously ain't right with the world. And TV advertising has brought you to the point where the *only* thing you can think of to eat when you're hungry is a burger or a steak, perhaps you need to reducate yourself and your palate.

Subject: RE: Vegetarianism&Song Circles Oil&Vinegar!
From: MMario
Date: 29 Apr 03 - 04:43 PM

My nutritionist mother always said that 2 0z of meat was sufficient for a meal

Subject: RE: Vegetarianism&Song Circles Oil&Vinegar!
From: Homeless
Date: 29 Apr 03 - 04:41 PM

So, just how much is "a lot less meat"?
Supposing I don't want to continue eating "the typical industrial-world diet," how I do know where I should be within that vast gray area that goes from "*way* too much meat" to "a lot less meat"?
Are we talking one 16 oz steak a week? A steak a day? One chicken nugget per meal? (I know, chickens don't have nuggets. However, I contest that roosters do.) No meat except on Sundays? Nun on Fridays?
I mean really, if you're going to shake your finger at us, give us some pointers to help mend our evil ways.

Subject: RE: Vegetarianism&Song Circles Oil&Vinegar!
From: PoppaGator
Date: 29 Apr 03 - 12:14 PM

Yes, the typical industrial-world diet includes *way* too much meat, and is bad not only for the health of the meat-eaters but of the planet as well.

However, I don't think strict veganism/vegeatrianism is the appropriate reponse. Meat is our only source of *complete* protein, and humans are, and have always been, omniverous animals. We just need to eat a lot less meat, using it as a small but essential component of our diet rather than as the main feature.

Look at all great peasant cuisines from around the world. Lots of grains and greens, with a little bit of meat and seafood. The ever-popular Chinese food is a good example, as are Mexican, Cajun, etc., etc.

All these different peoples around the world learned to combine beans with rice, which is the only combination of vegetables yielding the full spectrum of amino acids. They didn't go into a laboratory to determine that this combination made a uniquely nutritious dish, they learned from experience, independently in various places around the globe. I suppose this is what is meant by the "folk process."

And, of course, combined with your beans and rice, you include a modicum of flesh -- "seasoning meat," as we say in Louisiana. The Cajuns, who are only a couple of generations removed from a pre-industrial hunter-gatherer culture, can remember when the available meat or seafood component was determined by the season of the year: shrimp in the spring, fresh pork in the fall, sausage (preserved meat) in the dead of winter, etc. All in moderation, of course; a diverse and healthy diet maintained in balance with nature.

Subject: RE: Vegetarianism&Song Circles Oil&Vinegar!
From: Marion
Date: 29 Apr 03 - 10:47 AM

Rick, I wrote some things about my vacation in "Germany: busking, sessions, people".

Beccy, one more I thought of: if anyone expresses disgust at seeing me eat tofu or whatever, I've been known to say: "This, from a guy who eats livers."

Marion

Subject: RE: Vegetarianism&Song Circles Oil&Vinegar!
From: Gurney
Date: 29 Apr 03 - 04:22 AM

On the thread, I always take a big pork pie to the 'plate' functions, and I buy it in a shop. It is usually the first plate empty, and the only complaint ever was for not bringing mustard. Speaking for myself, I like to know what I'm eating BEFORE I take a serving, because some of those things look as if they've been eaten once already, and I don't like to sniff them. Maybe labels?       Chris, who'll eat anything he takes, but wouldn't take a parsnip.

Subject: RE: Vegetarianism&Song Circles Oil&Vinegar!
From: Susan A-R
Date: 28 Apr 03 - 11:03 PM

Wow! As an omnivore who makes her living cooking largely vegetarian food (Susan's Kitchen just started doing one meat meal a week) this IS interesting. An awfully large portion of the world doesn't eat meat for a variety of reasons, costs, religion, health, whatever, and there's some mighty fine vegetarian food because of it.

So much good food (of all sorts) and so little time.

Lately I've been encountering more "Carnivore backlash" as I call it, folks being agressively MEAT than agressive vegetarians. I wonder what that's about?


Personally, I want to start the ban on mushrooms. Slimey little devils. Can't swallow 'em, can't stand 'em. I'll eat pretty much anything else though.

Oh, puts me in mind of a wonderful Julia Childs Story I heard recently. Someone came to visit Julia when she was cooking beef tongue. She asked them if they would like some, to which they replied that they would never eat something that came out of the mouth of a cow. She said, without batting an eye "shall I make you an omlette?

Rick, I cooked from some massive, wonderful vegetarian Indian cook book for about three years before I realized it was Vedic (Vadic?? who knows, I can't spell) ie. onion and garlic free. It's good stuff, but no critters.

Subject: RE: Vegetarianism&Song Circles Oil&Vinegar!
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 28 Apr 03 - 10:56 PM

Welcome home Marion. Are you going to tell us about your adventures?

Rick

Subject: RE: Vegetarianism&Song Circles Oil&Vinegar!
From: Mudlark
Date: 28 Apr 03 - 07:56 PM

Since this thread has crept all over the place I'd like to add my 2 cents worth...which is...as far as music sessions go I'm a nofoodarian. If I want to talk, I can use the telephone. If I want to eat, I can fix it myself. But when I want to play with other folks I find both talking and eating a terrible waste of music time! Living in the boonies, I often have to drive for over an hour to get to someplace for 2-3 hours of music. Much as I like the people I play with, I prefer making music with them at such times, rather than eating and endless socializing. The thot of having to drag along a covered dish of ANY ilk to such a get together, along with guitar case, dulcimer case, music, etc. doesn't thrill me either.

Now a little glass (or more) of a robust red wine, just to clear the pipes, is always welcome. A sip between songs is always salubrious.

Starved for music curmudgeoness...

Subject: RE: Vegetarianism&Song Circles Oil&Vinegar!
From: Beccy
Date: 28 Apr 03 - 01:37 PM

Touchy, touchy, Marion... I am from the south and I also collect redneck jokes. FYI, I started collecting "smart ass" statements about vegetarianism when I WAS a vegetarian.

Beccy

Subject: RE: Vegetarianism&Song Circles Oil&Vinegar!
From: Marion
Date: 26 Apr 03 - 04:51 PM

Geez Rick, that was quite a dramatic story you came up with just to avoid coming over for a vegan meal.

Since Beccy asked for more smart-ass quotes about vegetarianism:

When somebody asks me why I'm veg and I feel the situation calls for sarcasm, I say, "I don't like the sight and smell of dead bodies. I'm a little funny that way." And if someone who should really know better asks where I get my protein, I just say, "What's protein?"

(When not being a smart-ass, my thoughts are similar to Matthias'.)

Marion

PS I'm a fifth level vegan: I don't eat anything that casts a shadow.

Subject: RE: Vegetarianism&Song Circles Oil&Vinegar!
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 26 Apr 03 - 11:44 AM

When I was vegitarian, I was sometimes nice...
More frequently all sensity, Offended once or twice
ttr

Subject: RE: Vegetarianism&Song Circles Oil&Vinegar!
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 26 Apr 03 - 10:53 AM

Ummm, actually Frank, I can't even imagine getting angry at something as innocuous as someone touting a certain lifestyle, vegitarian or otherwise. The whole thread was a joke....didn't I say that before...several times actually.

PLEASE, will someone (preferably one of the folks taking this seriously) start a "Vegitarianism" thread. It IS a serious subject, and I'm sure a good discussion will ensue.

Cheers

Rick

Subject: RE: Vegetarianism&Song Circles Oil&Vinegar!
From: Jeri
Date: 26 Apr 03 - 07:36 AM

Missed or ignored points, missed or ignored humor: I'd like to say these are caused by a vegetarian diet, but alas, there are meat eaters involved in the Great Diet Debate. I suspect scientists will eventually isolate the food rich in sense-of-humor bolstering ingredients, and it's probably going to turn out to be the cockroach parts that accidentally get into all sorts of foodstuffs.

It may well be that certain types of vegetarian diets are the modern-day hair shirts. There are those guys who are whacking themselves with whip thingies or slicing their heads OVER THERE and saying "It Is Good," and we've got folks making pine cone pies and hay souffles and saying the same thing. There's a certain amount of social brain-washing involved: "Here, try this. I found the recipe in 'Fibre Weekly' and it's absolutely to-die-for!" Then you eat it and either lie about how much you like it or manage to convince yourself its actually yummy!

I don't personally have anything against good vegetarian dishes, just the ones that make me look to see if I'm eating my napkin.

Subject: RE: Vegetarianism&Song Circles Oil&Vinegar!
From: Pied Piper
Date: 26 Apr 03 - 06:52 AM

Hi Frank.
You clearly have not understood my post, maybe next time I'll use shorter words.

PP

Subject: RE: Vegetarianism&Song Circles Oil&Vinegar!
From: Sooz
Date: 26 Apr 03 - 05:49 AM

Solidarity Frank! I'm with you all the way.

Subject: RE: Vegetarianism&Song Circles Oil&Vinegar!
From: Frankham
Date: 25 Apr 03 - 11:58 AM

Sooz is right.

Meat has an over abundance of protein. The body excretes it and does not retain it the way vegetables do. As a result, meat eating can leave a person with protein depletion. Cases of osteoporosis, cancer, and other diseases that are associated with meat eating countries do not exist in other countries where meat is not a staple. In order to get protein requirements, it is necessary to eat a variety of veggies.

Meat is so rich in fat that it has created a nation of obesity, heart disease, colon cancer, intestinal disorders and gall and kidney stones.

The idea that meat creates energy is fallacious. It takes more effort to digest meat products than veggies.

Many African societies are not predominantly meat eaters. There are people from so-called Third World countries who do not suffer aforementioned afflictions.

Atherosclorosis of the brain is another by-product of meat eating.

As to the morality of eating meat, the rain forest has almost disappeared in the Amazon jungle to make way for cattle production. This happened in the 1930's in the US with the advent of the Great Dust Bowl.

It would be interesting for those who talk about the virtues of meat eating to take a trip to the Chicago stockyards, then discuss morality. Or chicken processing plants in the South.

To say that meat eating has a bearing on intelligence is like saying the sun comes up because the rooster crows.

There are many vegetarians with great intelligence.

This being said, I think it is inappropriate to criticize those who eat meat in a snobbish manner. This is just plain rude and I don't like to see it. At the same time, it would be best if carnivores didn't make fun of herbavores either.

Rick, I don't blame you for feeling irritated at those who make vegetarianism a cause celebre to hang over the heads of others. It bothers me too.

But I think the facts need to be presented as well as the parodies.

Frank Hamilton

Subject: RE: Vegetarianism&Song Circles Oil&Vinegar!
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 24 Apr 03 - 07:26 PM

WHY I OTTA!! YOUSE GUYS IS GONNA GETTIT!!

Onion boy

Subject: RE: Vegetarianism&Song Circles Oil&Vinegar!
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 24 Apr 03 - 05:19 PM

Alionionization... Allium based gastric distress... brought about by impatience at the chopping block, and the frying pan. Cook till clear.

Onions are good for you. You are not going to leave your computer untill you've eaten every last poignant chunk of raw onions that is there on your plate... yeah, but well cooked, they help remove toxins from your body, and leave that feel good feeling!.

...unless your body is already perfect, like Little's...

ttr

Subject: RE: Vegetarianism&Song Circles Oil&Vinegar!
From: MMario
Date: 24 Apr 03 - 02:03 PM

NOOOOooooOOOOoooooooOOOOOoooooo! Say it isn't so!

*sob* I can't believe Rick is an allium alienist! *weep,wail, knash*

Subject: RE: Vegetarianism&Song Circles Oil&Vinegar!
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 24 Apr 03 - 01:59 PM

Hester. I'm not sure if this is what you wanted, but I'm gonna start a thread SOOOOOOO scary, soooooo weird, and tell about my lifelong fear of....oh Hell, it's more than a fear, it's a vendetta against onions. If I was a drinker, I'd get drunk first just to get up the courage!

I'm just thinking of a title now.........hmmmmmmmmmmm......

Subject: What veggies grew in Sherwood?/ Onion allergy
From: Hester
Date: 24 Apr 03 - 01:41 PM

It's not just song circles. The two other local Robin Hood enthusiasts I've met are BOTH vegetarians, believe it or not.

When getting together with one particular RH friend, we've racked our brains and cookbooks to come up with -- a medieval vegetarian menu!
Strange but true. I did learn that turnips (the real white turnips, not the rutabega that my mother of Scottish descent calls turnip), although authentic to the historical period, give me gas pains.   Enjoyed a rather nice mushroom pastie, though.

Unfortunately, we even had one British archer who briefly joined our on-line Robin Hood discussion group and, though he was not even a vegetarian, threw a flying fit that some North American bowhunters belonged to our group. Gee, deer hunters interested in Robin Hood -- who would ever have expected that?

Happily, that's the only kerfuffle we've had over venison, and how it's obtained. The vegetarians in the group are neither preachy nor squeamish when I post a medieval game recipe.

But speaking of onion allergy -- is this some sort of Canadian affliction, Rick & Clinton? Coz, damn! -- I'm becoming increasingly less able to digest them as I age, unless they're cooked thoroughly, preferably in lots of butter (oh, how unhealthy!). And I've never been able to digest garlic with any predictability. I thought I was in heaven when I discovered shallots a few years ago, but now they too give me a terrible stomach ache.

I'm really not looking forward to a bland and onion-less old age! My medieval rabbit stew just wouldn't be the same without onions.

Cheers, Hester ... merry moderator of The Greenwood