BS: Popular Views on Obama

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: wysiwyg
Date: 13 Feb 08 - 12:06 AM

I suppose if one is looking for a great motivational speaker, one can choose now between Obama and Dr. Phil.

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 13 Feb 08 - 12:29 AM

Dr Phil is a third-tier wuss compared to Barack when he is on a roll. No comparison.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 13 Feb 08 - 08:16 AM

But Obama started to broaden his support in the last few rounds; he continued to make inroads Tuesday.

He carried Latinos in Virginia and women and lower-income voters in Virginia and Maryland; all have been vital constituencies for Clinton. At the same time, Obama continued to show tremendous strength among African Americans as he bids to become the nation's first black president; on Tuesday, he won nearly 9 in 10 black votes in Maryland and Virginia, according to exit polls conducted for a consortium of news organizations.

Obama easily bested Clinton in both states among Democrats most concerned about the economy and the war in Iraq. Clinton edged Obama among those most concerned about healthcare.

"Every week that goes by, people get a little more comfortable with him, and he gets a little stronger," said Paul Maslin, a Democratic pollster not aligned in the race. But, he cautioned, "this thing is not over."

Indeed, many Democrats confessed to a hard time deciding between the two.

"I almost didn't vote at all because if you're perfectly even, how do you choose?" said Marc Shapiro, 39, an international development consultant in Falls Church, Va., an upscale suburb of Washington. He wound up casting his ballot for Clinton.

"I went with the issue of who's ready to serve from Day One," said Shapiro, picking up on a favorite Clinton talking point.

Steve Selby, 56, a public policy professor at Michigan State University's Washington semester program, voted at the same Falls Church apartment complex. He praised Clinton as a "very strong candidate" he could happily support in November. But he backed Obama out of "a sense of change, sense of hope."

"I find the excitement among young people very encouraging," Selby said. "I think he's generated some genuine excitement that I haven't seen since I was a kid."

For the first time, Obama pulled ahead of Clinton in the delegate count, 1,223 to 1,198, according to the Associated Press. It takes 2,025 delegates to win the nomination at the party's national convention in August.

Despite the closeness of the delegate count, Obama has seized a decided edge over Clinton in momentum. He drew huge crowds over the last several days and flexed his financial muscle by handily outspending Clinton on TV advertising in Virginia, Maryland and the District of Columbia. Over the weekend, he racked up five victories -- in Louisiana, Nebraska, Washington state, Maine and the Virgin Islands -- by crushing margins.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 13 Feb 08 - 09:10 AM

McCain speaks with a quiet dignity, but he's no oratorical match for Obama--even as he lifted Barack's "Fired up, ready to go" slogan--and was thus overshadowed.

LAT: "Obama stacked his wins on top of a string of victories over the weekend, pushing his record to 8-0 since he and Clinton effectively fought to a draw a week earlier on Super Tuesday. Obama's performance puts a breeze at his back and increases pressure on the suddenly struggling Clinton to reverse her fortunes in the next two weeks, when voters in another half-dozen states go to the polls."

NYT: "The lopsided nature of Senator Barack Obama's parade of victories on Tuesday gives him an opening to make the case that Democratic voters have broken in his favor and that the party should coalesce around his candidacy."

(WaPo column)

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 13 Feb 08 - 12:15 PM

Will McCain advisor dump John if Obama gets nod?
by Frank James

Way back in distant political history, say last June, when Sen. Hilllary Clinton had a commanding lead in national polls over Sen. Barack Obama, the Cox Washington Bureau "WIndow on Washington" blog ran an interview with Mark McKinnon, a political consultant and friend to both President Bush and Sen. John McCain.

McKinnon heaped praise on Obama and said something rather remarkable, that if Obama turned out to be the Democratic nominee, McKinnon would stop working for McCain since the consultant didn't want to oppose Obama whose candidacy he saw in singular terms.

 
  Q: Are you committed to working for and supporting McCain no matter who the Democratic nominee is? 
  
  McKinnon: If the Democratic nominee is Barack Obama, I will not work in the general election. I will, however, still support and vote for John McCain. I just don't want to work against an Obama candidacy. I think a McCain vs. Obama race would be a great choice for the country.
  
  Q: Have you decided to back Sen. Obama if he is the Democratic nominee? 
  
  McKinnon: Not if John McCain is the nominee. (McKinnon said it is "too hypothetical" to say whether he would vote for Obama over a GOP nominee other than McCain.) 
  
  Q: What is it about Obama that attracts you? 
  
  McKinnon: I don't think Barack Obama needs the mirror of politics to reflect who (he) is. I think he has deep character and good judgment. I also think he's wrong on some fundamental issues. But, I believe he is honest and independent and if he were elected, I think it would send a great message to the country and the world. (McKinnon said Obama is "wrong on Iraq and pulling out troops too early.")
  
  
  Q: How does Obama's race impact his chances of becoming president? 
  McKinnon: I think Obama's race could actually make it more likely he could be president. I think Americans would vote for an African-American in a heartbeat. Had Colin Powell run, I think he would have been president.
  

The way things are looking, McKinnon could be facing that tough choice that last June seemed merely theoretical.

(Baltimore Sun)

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Ron Davies
Date: 13 Feb 08 - 12:24 PM

The University of Maryland rally Monday was an amazing experience.   Very well organized. I took the Metro to the U of MD Metro stop, then there were shuttle buses to bring us to the stadium. Stadium to the right. They told us to turn left. "The line is on the left--and it's a long line". True. It took us 1 1/4 hours to get into the (indoor) stadium--about 24 degrees outside. 18,000 people--hardly any empty seats. There were rumors we wouldn't all get in--but we did. There were all sorts of people--lots of students but also many adults. White, black, Hispanic. Everybody in great spirits, getting along great.

Electric atmosphere inside. Creative signs. The wave. Cheers interrupted Obama's speech, which was great--OK, I'm not an unbiased observer. Very obvious how Team Clinton has played into Obama's hands--"There is nothing false about hope". Other great lines--Obama said he'd been told he needed more seasoning'--"boil all the hope out".

And he had specifics on programs--I don't have the actual numbers he mentioned, but there are loads of details on his web site--those who think he's nothing but an inspirational figure need to do just a tiny bit of research.

But the main point was to vote the next day.

And the crowd was, as his video says: "Fired up. Ready to go".

And we saw the result last night in Maryland.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Ron Davies
Date: 13 Feb 08 - 12:28 PM

But, as Amos notes, it was not just students who voted for him. His appeal seems to be broadening with every vote.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 13 Feb 08 - 01:58 PM

Remarks in Madison by Senator Obama.



A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Feb 08 - 03:23 PM

Here he is delivering that speech

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Charley Noble
Date: 13 Feb 08 - 06:25 PM

Anyone into counting beans or delegates remaining?

CNN was saying that if Obama picked up 60% of the remaining delegates he could not win before the National Democratic Convention.

In fact they said if he won 70% of the remaining delegates he still couldn't win outright.

Is their math fuzzy or does it make sense?

Does it work for Clinton if she wins Texas and Ohio by 70%?

And who wins Vermont?

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 13 Feb 08 - 06:44 PM

Someone needs to counsel him and tell him not to use the same trite by now phrases over and over..boil the hope out of him..the same stories about the same people...he is getting very repetitious and not in a good way. I think he also should be bringing up the aloha spirit etc. etc. and put on a 10 gallon hat and learn to two-step and go take Texas. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 13 Feb 08 - 07:50 PM

Mr. ObamaÕs triumphs capped a week in which he went undefeated in states across the country, in many cases by big margins, over Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York.

And his strength on Tuesday sliced across nearly every major demographic line, with one element standing out: in Virginia and Maryland, according to surveys of voters leaving the polls, he beat Mrs. Clinton among women.

The sheer consistency of Mr. ObamaÕs victories over the last few days certainly suggests that many Democratic voters have gotten past whatever reservations they might have had about his electability or his qualifications to be president.

Mr. Obama, in his victory speech in Madison, Wis., acted almost as the primaries were behind him, offering a case against the probable Republican nominee, Senator John McCain of Arizona, as he spoke disparagingly of ÒBush-McCain Republicans.Ó It amounted to a preview of what an Obama-McCain race might be like, and it reduced Mrs. Clinton, at least for one night, to the role of bystander.

ÒJohn McCain is an American hero,Ó Mr. Obama said before a huge, cheering crowd. ÒWe honor his service to our nation. But his priorities donÕt address the real problems of the American people, because they are bound to the failed policies of the past.Ó

Mr. McCain picked up the challenge. While not mentioning Mr. Obama by name, he offered an unmistakable put-down of the theme that has become so closely identified with Mr. Obama.

ÒTo encourage a country with only rhetoric rather than sound and proven ideas that trust in the strength and courage of free people is not a promise of hope,Ó he said. ÒIt is a platitude.Ó

To make sure no one had missed the message, Mr. McCain appropriated Mr. ObamaÕs signature line with a sly farewell to his own audience in Alexandria, Va. ÒMy friends,Ó he said. ÒI promise you, I am fired up and ready to go.Ó

Even before his latest victories, Mr. Obama, of Illinois, had whittled away at the advantages amassed last year by Mrs. Clinton.

He now enjoys a big financial advantage. Her big lead in national polls is gone. By most counts, Mr. Obama can now claim more delegates pledged to him. He has won far more states than Mrs. Clinton, although she won some of the big prizes, like California and New Jersey.

For weeks, Mrs. Clinton and Mr. Obama had approached this race the same way: as state-by-state trench warfare, in the belief that the nomination would go to whoever got the most delegates.

But the latest results suggest that the race might be tilting back to a more normal form, where the goal is achieving a series of splashing victories and thus momentum. That has provided Mr. Obama with the opportunity, which he plans to seize in a more full-throated way starting on Wednesday, to argue that voters across a wide cross-section of the country have embraced his candidacy, and that the time has come for the group that could hold the balance of power, those 796 unpledged superdelegates Ñ party leaders and elected officials who have an automatic seat at the national convention Ñ to follow suit.

ÒWe are in a momentum phase of the process now,Ó said Tad Devine, a Democratic consultant.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Charley Noble
Date: 13 Feb 08 - 07:57 PM

I actually heard a clip of Obama telling factory workers the specifics of his economic recovery program, prefacing his remarks with the warning that he was going into lecture mode. He still sounded good and people were listening to every word.

We probably can expect to hear more mini-lectures in the future.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Riginslinger
Date: 13 Feb 08 - 08:54 PM

Remember Ned Lamont!

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Ron Davies
Date: 13 Feb 08 - 09:06 PM

mg--

Different strokes... I like "boil the hope out of him", coupled with "not seasoned enough". But I like extended metaphors, double meanings, etc. I like "Life is Like A Mountain Railroad".

How many times have you heard Obama speak?. I assure you the lines were well received at the rally--some of whom had probably not heard him speak before, just heard about him. It was probably his stump speech--or in his case, stadium speech. I've heard some of the same lines in clips from other speeches. But I don't begrudge that to him.

But, take heart--as Charlie points out, he is coming up with specific proposals in speeches to other audiences--as opposed to the rally-the-troops-to-vote speech, which is what I heard, no doubt--in anticipation of the Maryland primary the next day.

He said today that " as president he would spend $210 billion to create jobs in construction and environmental industries. It would be over 10 years, as part of 2 programs. The larger is $150 billion to create 5 million so-called green collar jobs to develop more environmentally friendly energy sources." In other words he's saying what Bush said earlier, but he's actually willing to put sizable funds behind it.

"60 billion would go to a National Infrastructure Bank to rebuild highways, bridges, airports, and other public projects. Obama estimated that could generate nearly 2 million jobs, many of them in the construction industry that's been hit by the housing crisis".

Source: MSNBC 13 Feb 2008

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 13 Feb 08 - 11:22 PM

Here's the coolest one.


And here is the rockingest one.



A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Ron Davies
Date: 14 Feb 08 - 07:24 AM

Hillary is now broadcasting ads in the Hispanic community in Texas-- an ad called "Nuestra Amiga". Both Obama and Hillary voted in favor of the 700-mile fence between the US and Mexico in 2006. Obama has however come out in favor of drivers licenses for illegal immigrants--which would be mostly Hispanic-- and also an obvious good step from a public safety standpoint.

Since one election technique is to suppress your opponent's turnout, I wonder if it is legitimate to point out to Hispanic audiences that "Nuestra Amiga" voted in favor of the 700-mile fence. And of course state that Obama did too. Then point out the difference on the drivers license issue.

Or is that dirty politics--the kind we are trying to get away from?

This is a genuine question--thoughts?

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 14 Feb 08 - 09:20 AM

Facts on the record are not dirty politics per se.

Distorting them would be.


The fence is (IMHO) a dumb idea.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Feb 08 - 12:44 PM

A dumb idea indeed, and a cheapskate one at that.   If the Romans could build Hadrian's Wall, and the Chinese put up the Great Wall all that time ago, you'd think the least Americans could do would be build something a bit more respectable than an East German/Israeli type fence. Probably festooned with ads for MacDonalds and Pepsi to keep the cost down.

And you can guarantee it'd keep getting blown up and so forth. It'd be a perfect target.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Riginslinger
Date: 14 Feb 08 - 04:34 PM

It is a dumb idea, and the only reason it passed in Congress is because elites in office think the American people are too dumb to grasp a more sophisticated means of controlling immigration. But if they subbed it out to an Israeli contractor who hired illegal aliens to build it, they'd have an experienced builder and be able to keep the cost down.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Feb 08 - 05:25 PM

And it'd still be a perfect target. A pushover in fact.

Maybe they could get the Chinese to build a proper wall. At least that would be a tourist attraction even if it didn't keep people out.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: GUEST,John O'L
Date: 14 Feb 08 - 05:55 PM

Time for change?

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 14 Feb 08 - 06:02 PM

Well, I think the wall is a great idea. It will provide hardware stores in Mexican border towns with huge sales increases in ladders, shovels, wire cutters, ropes, grappling hooks....

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Riginslinger
Date: 14 Feb 08 - 06:46 PM

And as the authorities return illegals to Mexico, the pawn shops in border towns will start building up with ladders, wire cutters, and etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Don Firth
Date: 14 Feb 08 - 07:39 PM

"For a fee, I guarantee I can get you over the wall, senor, but once you're over the wall, the rest is up to you."

Don Firth

P. S. Either business will fall off sharply after the first couple of attempts, of there will be a sudden spurt in the sale of hang-gliders.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 14 Feb 08 - 07:56 PM

Amazing how the two excellent clips linked below are receiving no comment from all these musicians.

Odd, as well, that all the media stories today are chiming about predictions in favor of Hillary in the next round of primaries. 'S up wid dat?


I guess they are drawing out the conflict as far as they can, squeezing the last pair of eyeballs out of the story.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 10:18 AM

February 16, 2008

AFTER Tuesday's big win in the Washington DC, Virginia and Maryland primaries, Barack Obama's campaign team was jubilant when it held its usual phone conference on Wednesday morning to brief senior Washington correspondents.

The reason? They now believe it is impossible for Hillary Clinton to win because they say she cannot pass them on the pledged delegate count - that is, delegates elected by voters.

The only way she can win is to rely on her share of the 796 super-delegates, who include elected officials, party heavyweights and even her husband, Bill Clinton.

"David Plouffe, campaign manager, made it explicit on a conference call this morning, telling reporters that it's now 'next to impossible' for Clinton to surpass what he says is a 136-person lead among pledged delegates," the journalist Ben Smith wrote in his blog on the US website Politico.com on Wednesday morning. "The only way she could do it is by winning most of the rest of the contests by 25 to 30 points," he said. "Even the most creative math really does not get her, ever, back to even in terms of pledged delegates."

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 10:24 AM

Amazing how the two excellent clips linked below are receiving no comment from all these musicians.

What clips, what links?

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 10:29 AM

KEvin -- see my 13 Feb post that says "Here's the coolest one; here's the rockingest one."

Each line is a link to a YouTube music file which has been sweeping the cybersphere at a mad rate lately.

In other news: "Two labor sources tell Politico that the giant Service Employees International Union, which has been neutral through the primary, is on the verge of throwing its support to Sen. Barack Obama.

"It's done," said one person close to the union.

SEIU spokeswoman Stephanie Mueller confirmed that union leaders are set to discuss a potential endorsement today.

"Our board is going to be talking this evening," she said. "This will be a topic of their conversation."

---

A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 10:30 AM

THE US Congressman John Lewis, an elder statesman from the civil rights era and one of Hillary Clinton's most prominent black supporters, said he planned to cast his vote as a super-delegate for Barack Obama in the hope of preventing a fight at the Democratic convention.

"In recent days, there is a sense of movement and a sense of spirit," said Mr Lewis, a Georgia Democrat who endorsed Senator Clinton last year. "Something is happening in America and people are prepared and ready to make that great leap."

Mr Lewis, who carries great influence among other members of Congress, disclosed his decision on Thursday. His comments came as fresh signs emerged that Senator Clinton's support was beginning to erode from some other black politicians who also serve as super-delegates.

Another Georgian Congressman, David Scott, who was among the first to defect, said he would not go against the will of voters in his district, who overwhelmingly supported Senator Obama last week.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 12:15 PM

Here's an interesting take on the choice facing Democrats...

Who would you pick?

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 12:15 PM

WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) -- In the race for the Democratic presidential nomination, Barack Obama is now leading rival Hillary Clinton by double digits, a new poll found.

Obama leads Clinton 49% to 37% in the daily presidential tracking poll by Rasmussen Reports. The poll of likely Democratic primary voters was published Thursday.

Moreover, the poll found, Obama is now leading Clinton among women voters by five percentage points. Clinton retains her lead among white women but her advantage is down to three percentage points in that demographic, the poll found.

Clinton's campaign is reeling from a string of losses to Obama in Democratic contests but is quick to point out that the New York senator is leading her rival in Ohio and Pennsylvania.
After a delay of nine days, Clinton was declared the winner of the New Mexico Democratic caucuses on Thursday.

The next big contests for the Democrats are in delegate-rich Ohio and Texas. Those are held on March 4 with 389 delegates and super-delegates at stake. If Obama can pull off an upset in Texas, it could tilt the nomination heavily in his favor. IVR Polls determined that Obama was 10 points behind Clinton as of Jan. 31, but he has steadily closed the gap in recent weeks.

Obama is leading Clinton by a razor-thin margin in the delegate count: 55 delegates, according to a tally by The Wall Street Journal. Obama currently has 1,275 delegates to Clinton's 1,220. The Democratic candidate will need 2,025 delegates to secure the nomination.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 12:41 PM

Interesting dialogue, LH!!! :D

A correspondent from Zimbabwe wrote in to a blog editor:

"About three weeks ago, I was in the eastern highlands of Zimbabwe, having dinner with about a dozen Zimbabweans, all black, and they were fully informed about Obama and their excitement was incredible. These were educated people -- some of the few professionals left in that part of Zim in the wake of the Mugabe-induced economic and political meltdown -- and they were grilling me on how it could be that a man of African ancestry could be elected....

When I told them that to almost all Americans under 40, a candidate's race wasn't of any consequence, they nodded in agreement -- "what a great country," one said "that can ignore such things as race and prosper."   These were all people, though, who have learned the bitter lesson of the consequences of reverse racism -- Mugabe's seizure of white-owned farms and businesses that has led to Zim's collapse, and to widespread hunger in the formerly most prosperous African country. One thing Mugabe has done in Zim- he has made whites and blacks all brothers, united in hatred of bad government. "


Seems Bush and Mugabe are kindred souls under their skins...


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 01:00 PM

Bad government loves to play the "divide and conquer" game. That's an old story, and one that is written in blood and sorrow.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 03:55 PM

The Service Employees International Union gave Barack Obama its highly prized endorsement on Friday afternoon.

The S.E.I.U.'s endorsement is especially coveted because the union has 1.9 million members and has a rank-and-file that is far more politically active than most other unions'. Moreover, its political action committee is expected to collect more than $30 million this campaign, making it one of the biggest PACs in the nation.
In a telephone news conference announcing the endorsement, Andy Stern, the union's president, said: "This is about more than one election. It's about building for the next generation of America. Barack Obama is creating the broadest and deepest coalition of voters we've ever seen."

The union's executive board cast ballots by email and fax on Thursday night, and union officials were unable to finish the tallying until Friday.

With John Lewis, the Democratic Congressman from Georgia and former civil rights leader, indicating on Thursday that he intends to cast his vote as a superdelegate for Mr. Obama, the S.E.I.U.'s endorsement is expected to further build momentum for Mr. Obama after his wins in eight consecutive contests. Mr. Stern, like Mr. Lewis, said it would not be a good idea for superdelegates to ultimately choose the nominee in what could be a highly divided Democratic convention in August....(NYT)

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 07:54 PM

Why Obama Succeeds


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 08:19 PM

Glad to see Kermit in there.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 16 Feb 08 - 09:37 AM

"The senator from Arizona is clearly unhappy about the possibility of having to run against Barack Obama, who he has disliked ever since Obama had the temerity to present himself as a campaign finance reformer without McCainÕs permission. And the fact that the 46-year-old Obama keeps referring to the 71-year-old McCain as a military hero, in tones that suggest the conflict in question was the Spanish Civil War, doesnÕt help."

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Charley Noble
Date: 16 Feb 08 - 10:03 AM

The other option being pursued to "win" the nomination by the Clinton Campaign is to get full credit for it's "win" in the "sooner" primaries in Michigan and Florida. These primaries were moved up by their state committees in violation of the National Democratic Committee policy for timing primaries. Obama abided by the Committee's decision and did not participate in either primary. Clinton decided to leave her name on the ballot and "won."

If she wins at the convention by securing credit for these votes it will further poison her subsequent campaign for President. I would rather not see this happen.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Ron Davies
Date: 16 Feb 08 - 02:14 PM

" tones that suggest the conflict in question was the Spanish Civil War".   I love it, Amos. What's that quote from? (I thought maybe the conflict was going to be the Spanish-American War.)

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Riginslinger
Date: 16 Feb 08 - 02:21 PM

Of course it would help to keep in mind that the wrong side won in the Spanish Civil War, at least, in my opinion.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 16 Feb 08 - 02:32 PM

Opps!! Sorry...it is from this very funny Op Ed piece in today's New York Times.

Enjoy.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 16 Feb 08 - 03:37 PM

Toni Morrison's letter to Obama

Dear Senator Obama,

This letter represents a first for me--a public endorsement of a Presidential candidate. I feel driven to let you know why I am writing it.Ê One reason is it may help gather other supporters; another is that this is one of those singular moments that nations ignore at their peril.

I will not rehearse the multiple crises facing us, but of one thing I am certain: this opportunity for a national evolution (even revolution) will not come again soon, and I am convinced you are the person to capture it.

May I describe to you my thoughts?

I have admired Senator Clinton for years. Her knowledge always seemed to me exhaustive; her negotiation of politics expert. However I am more compelled by the quality of mind (as far as I can measure it) of a candidate. I cared little for her gender as a source of my admiration, and the little I did care was based on the fact that no liberal woman has ever ruled in America. Only conservative or "new-centrist" ones are allowed into that realm. Nor do I care very much for your race. I would not support you if that was all you had to offer or because it might make me "proud."

In thinking carefully about the strengths of the candidates, I stunned myself when I came to the following conclusion that in addition to keen
intelligence, integrity and a rare authenticity, you exhibit something that has nothing to do with age, experience, race or gender and something
I don't see in other candidates. That something is a creative imagination which coupled with brilliance equals wisdom. It is too bad if we associate it only with gray hair and old age. Or if we call searing vision naivetŽ. Or if we believe cunning is insight. Or if we settle for finessing cures tailored for each ravaged tree in the forest while ignoring the poisonous landscape that feeds and surrounds it. Wisdom is a gift; you can't train for it, inherit it, learn it in a class, or earn it in the workplace--that access can foster the acquisition of knowledge, but not wisdom.

When, I wondered, was the last time this country was guided by such a leader? Someone whose moral center was un-embargoed? Someone with courage instead of mere ambition? Someone who truly thinks of his country' s citizens as "we," not "they"? Someone who understands what it will take to help America realize the virtues it fancies about itself, what it desperately needs to become in the world?

Our future is ripe, outrageously rich in its possibilities. Yet unleashing the glory of that future will require a difficult labor, and some may be so frightened of its birth they will refuse to abandon their nostalgia for the womb.

There have been a few prescient leaders in our past, but you are the man for this time.

Good luck to you and to us.

Toni Morrison

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: GUEST,dianavan
Date: 16 Feb 08 - 04:24 PM

An endorsement from Toni Morrison actually has meaning for me.

What about Obama as pres. and Hillary for V.P.?

They are not that far apart on their foreign policy:

http://www.cfr.org/publication/13074/

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 16 Feb 08 - 04:29 PM

I think Clinton would add absolutely nothing to an Obama presidency, not votes, not prestige, not brownie points for having a woman VP. He can find others. I found him a nice one but she had been born in Canada. If he wants a former first lady, perhaps Rosalyn Carter would do. Clinton would bring with her a rogue husband, dealing with rogue states however he wanted in exchange for what? Money? Power of some kind? Too dangerous a world. Obama is smart enough not to go that way, and hopefully politically astute to pass up being her VP...I think she would get votes having him on her ticket and will probably announce to the world that she is going to invite him to be the VP, knowing he will not accept. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Feb 08 - 04:50 PM

Funny how language works: "Nor do I care very much for your race." In another context, from another person that could mean something completely different and highly offensive.

Surely the point of having Clinton as VP wouldn't be to add something to an Obama presidency. It would be that doing this might increase his chances of making it to the White House in the election. At least that would be the idea. Of course it might work the other way...

If Cliton does win the race, why wouldn't Obama accept the offer? This rivalry between them is genuine enough, insofar as they both want the same job (and probably think that they would do it better), but there's not that much difference between them on issues. And the chances are that her VP would be first in line to be put forward to replace her when she's done, because it always seems to work out that way.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 16 Feb 08 - 05:10 PM

eb. 16 (Bloomberg) -- Barack Obama picked up key newspaper endorsements in Wisconsin and Texas today as he and Hillary Clinton compete for delegates in states that may help determine which candidate wins the Democratic presidential nomination.

The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, Wisconsin's largest daily newspaper, said it recommends that voters support Obama in the state's Feb. 19 primary because ``change and experience are crucial to moving this country forward'' and the Illinois senator is the ``best-equipped to deliver that change.''

The Houston Chronicle, the biggest daily publication in Texas, gave similar reasons for endorsing Obama, 46, over Clinton. He's ``the best-qualified by life experience, skill and temperament to be the standard bearer for his party,'' the newspaper said in an editorial today. Texas will hold its primary on March 4.

Both newspapers also backed Senator John McCain of Arizona for the Republican presidential nomination, whose lead in some of the largest states with contests coming in the next few weeks effectively blocks any challenge to his nomination. McCain, 71, has 814 of the 1,191 delegates needed to claim the Republican nomination, according to unofficial estimates compiled by thegreenpapers.com, an independent, non-partisan Web site that tracks election statistics.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 16 Feb 08 - 05:13 PM

Having the other as a VP would add much more to her campaign than it would to his -- which is one reason I suspect he is the one who will have the option, and decline it. His grass-roots inertial momentum is being echoed by media voices and superdelegates. He is nearly to the point where all she will have left to do is flail; almost, but not just yet.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 16 Feb 08 - 05:20 PM

Who would he get in terms of votes by having Clinton as VP? That he couldn't get by having some female governor instead? Or Patty Murray or some senator with less of a toxic cloud about her? mg

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Feb 08 - 05:53 PM

The thing is, one of his strongest messages has been about bringing people together and healing division and reaching out to opponents and so forth, and inviting Clinton on board would be seen as a way of doing that in the context of the Democratic Party.

There'd be counter arguments around the claim of Clinton being divisive in herself in relation to the wider electorate, but binding in the Clinton wing of the party would make a lot of sense.

It'd make less sense for her to accept it, especially given her age. (Though even after eight years she'd be younger than McCain is now...) My bet is if he gets to be candidate he'll offer her the job, and she'll decline it.
........................................

If Clinton does get to be the Democratic candidate for president, one theoretical possibility would be that she could even pick Bill as her running mate. No rule against a former President being Vice President that I can see. And nothing to prevent him from taking over as President if she got elected and couldn't carry on, or whatever.

There's no bar on being President a third time, just on being elected to the office:

Twenty-second Amendment to the United States Constitution Section 1. No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice, and no person who has held the office of President, or acted as President, for more than two years of a term to which some other person was elected President shall be elected to the office of the President more than once...)