BS: Popular Views on Obama

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 07 Apr 08 - 11:22 AM

Olbermann and Limbaugh are NOT on the same side.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Riginslinger
Date: 07 Apr 08 - 12:10 PM

Jack - I know it seems like a stretch, but you'd only have to watch one episode of the "Hannity and Colmes Show" to see how this works. Hannity is so far out in right field he's about to fall off the edge of the planet, and Colmes is just a little right of center, then they argue the issues and end up at some point in the middle. They call this "fair and balanced."

                  It's perfectly plausible for two newspapers to do the same thing. Pick two: The Washington Post and the Washington Times, they do it all the time. They don't ever come to any agreement, the the reader is given these two points of view, and neither point of view is in agreement with my own.

                  I might be way out is space: but that's the way it looks to me.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Apr 08 - 02:25 PM

Views and policies that count as pretty extreme left in the USA would count as centrist or centre right in many European countries.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Riginslinger
Date: 07 Apr 08 - 03:13 PM

"Olbermann and Limbaugh are NOT on the same side."

             Maybe they don't seem to be, but they might be serving the same master.



                     McGrath - I've picked up on what you are saying whenever I give my views on illegal immigration.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 07 Apr 08 - 09:25 PM

David Axelrod interview. He's no Mark Penn.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 08 Apr 08 - 01:15 PM

Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama is moving within striking distance of rival Hillary Clinton in Pennsylvania, according to the latest Quinnipiac University Poll, out Tuesday.

Obama is now trailing Clinton — who weeks ago had a comfortable double-digit lead — 50 to 44 percent among likely voters surveyed in Pennsylvania from April 3-6. In a previous Quinnipiac Poll released April 2, Clinton was leading Obama 50 percent to 41 percent. The margin of error was 2.7 percent, meaning the poll does not show a statistical tie.

However, one of the most notable shifts, according to the poll, is among women — Clinton's stalwart base. In the latest survey, she leads Obama among women 54 to 41, compared to 54 to 37 percent in the April 2 poll. She is also dropping among white voters, where she leads Obama 56 percent to 38 percent, compared to 59 percent to 34 percent a week ago.

Obama is for the first time in the Quinnipiac poll doing better than Clinton among men, leading Clinton 48 percent to 44 percent, compared to a 46 percent to 46 percent tie on April 2.

"With two weeks to go, Sen. Barack Obama is knocking on the door of a major political upset in the Pennsylvania Democratic primary. Obama is building his own constituencies, but is taking away voters in Sen. Hillary Clinton's strongest areas — whites including women, voters in the key wing Philadelphia suburbs and those who say the economy is the most important issue in the campaign," said Clay F. Richards, assistant director of the Quinnipiac University Polling Institute.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 08 Apr 08 - 07:40 PM

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Democratic presidential contender Hillary Clinton will win several state nominating contests in the coming months but has little chance of becoming the party's candidate for the November 2008 election, traders were betting on Tuesday.

Traders in the Dublin-based Intrade prediction market gave Democratic front-runner Barack Obama an 86 percent chance of being the Democratic presidential nominee, versus a 12.8 percent for Clinton, the New York senator and former first lady.

Results were similar on the Iowa Electronic Markets at the University of Iowa, with traders giving Obama an 82.9 percent chance of winning, versus a 12.8 percent chance for Clinton.

Intrade traders were betting the Democratic nominee would ultimately become president. They gave the Democrat a 59.1 percent chance of winning, versus a 48.8 percent chance for the Republican. Iowa traders gave the Democrat a 57.1 percent chance of winning, versus 46.3 percent for the Republican.(Reuters)

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Riginslinger
Date: 08 Apr 08 - 09:51 PM

"Democratic presidential contender Hillary Clinton will win several state nominating contests in the coming months..."

                What this tells the discriminating voter is, the primaries that Obama was most apt to win came early, and the ones that Hillary was most apt to win came later. If they decide to count Florida and Michigan, we'll have a more honest count.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 08 Apr 08 - 10:00 PM

How do you reckon it will be "honest" to count votes cast in an event in which one candidate wasn't even on the ballot? Doesn't that strike you as... unintelligent?


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Riginslinger
Date: 08 Apr 08 - 11:33 PM

Not really. I don't think it was a good idea for him to take his name of the ballot, but we've already discussed the mistakes he's made in the campaign.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 08 Apr 08 - 11:41 PM

>>From: Riginslinger
Date: 08 Apr 08 - 09:51 PM

"Democratic presidential contender Hillary Clinton will win several state nominating contests in the coming months..."

                What this tells the discriminating voter is, the primaries that Obama was most apt to win came early, and the ones that Hillary was most apt to win came later. If they decide to count Florida and Michigan, we'll have a more honest count.<<

That does not follow at all. All along Obama has won more contests by larger margins. Why is this concept so easy for Irish handicappers and so difficult for a certain American voter?

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 08 Apr 08 - 11:53 PM

What it tells the discriminating voter is that early or late, Obama is demonstrating more momentum than Hillary, and appears to have the stamina to continue to do so, has outpaced her in fundraising, and will carry the popular and pledged delegate counts with an unambiguous edge.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Riginslinger
Date: 09 Apr 08 - 08:06 AM

Well, if he ends up with the nomination, I guess we'll just have to get used to John McCain as president.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 09 Apr 08 - 08:51 AM

I think you are being disingenuous. McCain has shot himself in the foot so often people will walk away from him.

There are milliions of Hillary rooters who would sigh, but turm to Obama long before they'd vote for McCain. THe reverse camp is much, much smaller.





A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Riginslinger
Date: 09 Apr 08 - 10:22 AM

"There are milliions of Hillary rooters who would sigh, but turm to Obama long before they'd vote for McCain. THe reverse camp is much, much smaller."


                   I really think you're wrong about that.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 09 Apr 08 - 11:26 AM

Oh, fine, Rig.   I will not rant at you for that, beyond saying that your thinking has frequently impressed me as being a little bit lopsided. Mine probably looks the same to you.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 09 Apr 08 - 11:31 AM

Six months ago supporters boasted that Clinton was unbeatable (in Pennsylvania). But as a new Quinnipiac University poll shows the contest narrowed to 6 percentage points, it's looking like Pennsylvania could be Clinton's last stand.

"She's getting dangerously close to the edge to losing this," said Clay F. Richards, assistant director of the Quinnipiac University Polling Institute. "It is a game of horseshoes, and close for Obama is a victory for him."

Pennsylvania is the "make it or break it point for the Clinton campaign," he said.

Clinton, who once led by a 16- to 20-point margin, has watched as Obama cut her advantage to 6 points — 50 percent to 44 percent — in the Quinnipiac poll of 1,340 likely Pennsylvania Democratic voters.

Across just about every demographic — old, young, blacks, whites, women, men, rich, poor and in Democrat-rich regions such as southeastern Pennsylvania and Philadelphia, Clinton's numbers are slipping.

At the same time, Obama has played his own expectations game as he constantly reminded voters that he's the underdog during a recent campaign swing through Pennsylvania. ...

(Atlanta Journal)

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 09 Apr 08 - 11:54 AM

"There are milliions of Hillary rooters who would sigh, but turm to Obama long before they'd vote for McCain. THe reverse camp is much, much smaller."

Lop sided or not it is simple common sense.

Hillary's base is the Democratic base and much of her success comes from having state and local political machines behind her. Die hard Democrats will support Obama.

Obama is appealing to the Democratic base but he is also picking up new voters, independents and Republicans. A lot of those people will not be voting for Hillary.

Obama puts a lot of red states and swing states into play that Hillary does not.

Look at the "anti-establishment" voters. McCain is much more and outsider than Hillary, Obama is more of an outsider than McCain.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Riginslinger
Date: 09 Apr 08 - 12:03 PM

Well, I agree on one thing. If Hillary loses Pennsylvania it's probably over for her. That would piss off a lot of folks here in Oregon who are changing from Republican to Democrat just to vote in the primary.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 09 Apr 08 - 12:25 PM

They will still get to vote. I believe that Hillary will not suspend her campaign. I think she will just scale it down and use the platform to bash McCain and promote the Clinton brand until the convention. There is always Chelsea in 2020 to think about.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Riginslinger
Date: 09 Apr 08 - 12:56 PM

I doubt if Chelsea will run, they'll still be trying to get her to bite on Monica Lewinsky.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 09 Apr 08 - 01:05 PM

By that time she will have had her own scandal to talk about.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 10 Apr 08 - 12:34 AM

"WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Barack Obama is gaining ground on Hillary Clinton in Pennsylvania, moving within range of an April 22 upset that could end the hard-fought Democratic presidential race months earlier than expected.

Less than two weeks before their next showdown, opinion polls show Obama cutting Clinton's once big lead in Pennsylvania to single digits and making gains among some voting blocs that have been her most reliable backers.

An Obama win would be a shocking twist in a Democratic race filled with them, effectively scuttling Clinton's hopes of overtaking him in the fight for the right to face Republican John McCain in November's presidential election.

"If Obama wins Pennsylvania, the race is over," said Cal Jillson, a political analyst at Southern Methodist University in Texas.

"That would be a signal to the Democratic Party to move decisively to end this nominating race now and to start looking to the general election," he said.

A loss in Pennsylvania would destroy Clinton's central argument in the race against Obama -- that she is the strongest Democratic candidate in the big states the party needs to win in the election battle with McCain.",,(Reuters)

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 10 Apr 08 - 01:52 PM

Colin Powell says he's considering all three candidates, praises Obama's race speech: "I'm looking at all three candidates," former secretary of State Colin Powell, a Republican, said during a pre-recorded interview with Diane Sawyer for today's Good Morning America. "I know them all very, very well. I consider myself a friend of each and every one of them. And I have not decided who I will vote for yet." Powell said some of the things said over the years by Rev. Jeremiah Wright are "deplorable," and he praised the way Barack Obama has handled the controversy over the senator's former pastor. "I think that Sen. Obama handled the issue well," Powell said. "He didn't look the other way. He didn't wait for the, for the, you know, for the storm to go over. He went on television, and I thought, gave a very, very thoughtful, direct speech. And he didn't abandon the minister who brought him closer to his faith."

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Riginslinger
Date: 10 Apr 08 - 02:51 PM

"'...he didn't abandon the minister who brought him closer to his faith.'"


                   Of course, it's his faith that bothers a lot of us.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 10 Apr 08 - 02:55 PM

Rig:

His faith is none of our business, as he shows no sign of trying to foist it onto his political channels --unlike Bush and a few other fanatics.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Riginslinger
Date: 10 Apr 08 - 04:13 PM

I would agree that his faith would be none of our business, if he wasn't running for public office.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 10 Apr 08 - 05:20 PM

It is STILL none of our business as long as he does not insert it into the commons of his public office, which he has not done.


The Constitution of the United States, good Rig, forbids any religious test for public office.

But he is required to support and defend the Constitution, as regards separtion of Church and State, likewise.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Riginslinger
Date: 10 Apr 08 - 06:35 PM

Okay! I won't talk about it if Sean Hannity doesn't talk about it.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 10 Apr 08 - 06:58 PM

Mwaahahhaaa. Talk about UnAmerican, Sean Hannity would probably love to throw such constitutional provisions out the window if it forwarded his tantrum and awe campaign.



A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Riginslinger
Date: 10 Apr 08 - 07:35 PM

Yes, that's probably true. We can agree about that.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Ron Davies
Date: 10 Apr 08 - 11:27 PM

But where would Rig get all his information if he didn't watch Sean? He relies on him (and Rush, Ann etc.) for all his political knowledge. And without them his brilliance might be slightly dimmed. And we certainly wouldn't want that.



Separate topic:

Those of us who are in favor of Obama should watch out for the old inflated expectations scenario---as in NH and TX. In both situations Obama made up a huge amount of ground, but the curse of positive coverage, and we on Mudcat who report polls should be aware, is that if general reporting is an uptrend, any dip down is magnified. Both in NH and TX, Obama's own people tried to reduce unrealistic expectations.   But the polls predicting a continuing surge in his favor dominated coverage. And in both instances, Hillary claimed victories--which then became the "story"--but actually were not triumphs--particularly considering how far ahead she had been a few weeks prior.

Similarly, we are in danger of setting ourselves up for another Hillary "victory" in PA. A few weeks ago she was expected to take PA by 15 to 20%. Now if we cite a poll of 50 to 44% (6 percent separating them) that becomes the new benchmark, allowing her supporters, known for expert grasping at straws, to claim that if she wins by 10% that is a "famous victory". Which it isn't.

Far better to insist on a 15% difference to be a win for her. Which is in fact what she needs, since she will lose NC-- which has about 2/3 as many delegates as PA-- badly. Anything less than a 15% win in PA is a loss for her. If she comes out of the PA, NC ,IN, clump of primaries having only made up about 10 delegates, she has no chance to convince superdelegates to trend towards her.

Especially since Dean and the other DNC people are well aware of her huge negatives--and the equally great opportunity Obama presents.   Rig Blfsttsflk-- (affectionately named after the Li'l Abner character who always had a cloud over him)-- notwithstanding.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 10 Apr 08 - 11:42 PM

The problem is with the Press but not as you say.

Clinton did claim victory in New Hampshire, but she tied. 9 delegates to 9.
She claimed victory in Texas but she lost by 4 delegates.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 11 Apr 08 - 11:45 AM

"Standing together in City Hall yesterday afternoon, 11 city and
state elected officials endorsed Sen. Barack Obama for president.
The group was composed of six City Council members, three state representatives, and two state senators.
In addition, City Council President Anna C. Verna, who did not attend
the news conference, has informed Obama that he has her vote as leader of the 36th Ward in South Philadelphia.

"This decision is in her capacity as a political leader, not a
councilwoman," Verna spokesman Anthony Radwanski said. He said she
was confining her endorsement to her ward position so as not to speak
for the leaders of other wards in the Second Council District that
Verna represents.

Some of those wards back Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton; others are behind Obama.

Verna did not take a formal vote in her ward, Radwanski said, "but
she knows her committee people well enough to know who they are supporting."

The intent of yesterday's endorsements was to boost the show of local
support for Obama, given that heading into Pennsylvania's April 22 primary Clinton has the backing of two high-profile officials: Gov. Rendell and Mayor Nutter.

Council members announcing their support of Obama yesterday were Curtis Jones, Bill Green, Jannie L. Blackwell, Donna Reed Miller, James F. Kenney and W. Wilson Goode Jr.

With them were State Sens. Shirley Kitchen and Vincent Hughes, and State Reps. Jewell Williams, Harold James and Tony Payton Jr."

(Philly.com)

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 11 Apr 08 - 01:04 PM

INDIANAPOLIS (Reuters) - Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama will push on Friday for passage of a bill to put the huge pay packages of some U.S. corporate executives under greater scrutiny.

The Illinois senator has introduced "say-on-pay" legislation that would give investors more of a voice in setting executive compensation packages.

"We've seen what happens when CEOs are paid for doing a job no matter how bad a job they're doing. We can't afford to postpone reform any longer," Obama said in prepared remarks for delivery later on Friday.

"That's why Washington needs to act immediately to pass this legislation."

Amid fears the U.S. economy may be in recession, many U.S. voters are anxious about a weakening job market, the mortgage crisis and higher gasoline prices.

At the same time, many are also expressing outrage over big pay packages given to executives of some of the companies at the center of the financial and mortgage crises, such as Bear Stearns Cos Inc and Countrywide Financial Corp."

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Riginslinger
Date: 11 Apr 08 - 04:10 PM

Ron - You surprise me. I didn't think you were old enough to remember Lil' Abner.



    "The Illinois senator has introduced "say-on-pay" legislation that would give investors more of a voice in setting executive compensation packages."


                   Nobody is more frustrated with executive pay than I am, but if the US passes these kinds of measures to control the actions of corporations, what's to prevent them from pulling up stakes and operating from some place else, like Blackwated did?

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Apr 08 - 04:16 PM

They could probably use some power under your Patriot Act to get them as "economic terrorists". If they wanted to.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Ron Davies
Date: 11 Apr 08 - 08:54 PM

Actually Rig, my grandpa told me about Li'l Abner when he was telling me about the Depression and other ancient times. Look Rig, if you read widely enough, you learn about all sorts of things. And there was a musical based on Li'l Abner--I love a lot of musicals. Great song from that musical about one Jubilation T. Cornpone, as I recall.

And I do think you fit the Joe Blflltstk--spelling may be off-- character to a T. How long has this cloud been following you?


Jack--

We both realize that neither NH nor TX was a triumph for Hillary--though I have to say I didn't realize they tied 9-9 in delegates in NH. Is that so?

My point is that unrealistic expectations for Obama allowed them portrayed as victories for her. And that we'd best be careful not to let the same thing happen in PA. For her to claim victory in PA, especially considering the likely shellacking awaiting her in NC, she will need to win by 15%. And we should stick to that requirement. When we mention polls showing the race already closer than 15%, we can fall into the trap of assuming the PA race will be very close. One poll may say 6% difference, but others say over 10% still. So let's stay with 15% as her required margin to claim any advantage.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Riginslinger
Date: 11 Apr 08 - 09:40 PM

Ron - Again, you need to check your history. The musical about Jubilation T. Cornpone came out in the mid 1950's and the Joe Blisflik character--who I think I mentioned in an earlier thread--was not only a prophet of doom, but disasters followed him everywhere he went. So I don't fit the stereotype unless "Oh Bummer" gets elected.               

    And then there's Oh Bummer's latest comments about the small town folks of Pennsylvania. That ought to play well in Wilkes Barre.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Ron Davies
Date: 11 Apr 08 - 10:11 PM

Ah, but Rig, I think you're off base (again), much as it pains me to say it.

First, the most important issue--I suspect my spelling of Joe's name is closer than yours. I think his last name has no vowels at all.

Secondly, you are the Joe character. You endorse Hillary--and her campaign goes to hell in a handbasket.   You're the cloud that follows her. Sorry to have to say it.

We Obama supporters are also so grateful that she has Bill speaking for her--he's just pointed out, resurrecting the Bosnian sniper fire disaster, and pointing out that she can't be expected to think straight or talk sense--especially since she's so ancient (60!) and needs her sleep--11 PM is too late--(what was that drivel about being alert for the 3 AM phone?--not likely). And she's forgetful (at 60).

On top of that, their taxes establish him as the #1 lobbyist of the world. Just what the president needs--as a spouse.

Conflict of interest? Nah, not a chance.

He's our secret weapon.


I still think it's interesting that all your worst opponents seem to be black or brown-skinned.

Would you mind giving us a clear statement now that if Obama is the Democratic nominee--as is very likely-- you will support the Democratic nominee?

Thanks.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 11 Apr 08 - 11:13 PM

I know that Ron. My point was that it doesn't matter what expectations are set. The press is bending over backward to make it look like she is doing better than she is. Making the horse race look closer makes for better ratings than telling the truth.

BTW NH was 39 Clinton, 36 Obama and nine delegates each and to hear the press Hillary won like The USA vs Granada.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Riginslinger
Date: 12 Apr 08 - 12:02 AM

Ron - As the truth comes out about your candidate, I will admit he becomes increasingly more difficult to support.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 12 Apr 08 - 04:44 AM

Specifically and exactly what truth ghave you seen that could have that effect, Rig? Or are you just being slimey ?



A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Ron Davies
Date: 12 Apr 08 - 07:07 AM

Rig--

You didn't answer the question. If Obama is the Democratic nominee, will you support him--yes or no?

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Riginslinger
Date: 12 Apr 08 - 10:13 AM

this from the Houston Chronicle:

    "'Obama said, "You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania, and like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them...   
   And it's not surprising, then, they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.'"


                It's funny that he accuses them of clinging to religion when he sat in a pee-you in front of Reverend Wright for 20 years himself.

                And he says they "cling to guns?"

                They are "anti-immigrant." Of course illegal immigrants took what few jobs there were at wages way below the poverty level, and sent the money back to Mexico or Costa Rica, or...



                   These are the statements of an elitist Democrat speaking to other elitist Democrats in San Francisco, like the ones who run Moveon.org.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 12 Apr 08 - 12:18 PM

Oh, horse pucky. Those statements are general descriptions, and fairly accurate of the way a lot of people find emotional shelter in special activities.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 12 Apr 08 - 12:38 PM

This "elitist" crap is coming from Hillary and McCain at the same time. Are they Comparing notes of does Mark Penn work for McCain too?

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 12 Apr 08 - 01:29 PM

True or false what the hell is he thinking? He doesn't need rural or working class voters? Has he never heard of George W. Bush? Major screw up. Those rural voters gave us Bush and they can give us McCain. He may have nailed his own coffin with that.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: GUEST,dianavan
Date: 12 Apr 08 - 01:34 PM

"...they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."

Many people blame others for socio-economic circumstances that they do not understand.

I don't understand why you think this is an elitist expression of the situation. Its an educated perspective. Elitism and education are not the same.

I suppose you prefer a president you could invite to a barbecue but who wouldn't be able to explain or wouldn't bother to give you a reason for anything. At least Obama attempts to understand the fear and frustration of others.

Why do you think people are anti-trade and anti-immigrant? Why do you think people cling to guns and religion?

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Riginslinger
Date: 12 Apr 08 - 02:04 PM

Why does Obama cling to religion?