BS: Popular Views on Obama

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 20 Mar 08 - 10:54 AM

I sensed a similar murk of falsification and vituperation in the reportage surrounding the stellar speech of Tuesday. The articles that appreciated it for what it was were few and far between. THose who treated it as a tactical manuver, another twist in the endless positioning battle, or worse, were in the majority. The speech itself was so lucid and accurate and rhetorically fine, that in contrast the interpretative clouds laid over it by the media are remarkable as indications of the deep, inbred, stupidness of our major media forum.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 20 Mar 08 - 11:01 AM

From the NEw York TImes columnist (South African by birth)Roger Cohen, in an interesting analysis called "Beyond America's Original Sin":


"...A racial divide, once lived, dwells in the deepest parts of the psyche. This is what was captured by Barack Obama's pitch-perfect speech on race. Slavery was indeed America's "original sin." Of course, "the brutal legacy of slavery and Jim Crow" lives on in forms of African-American humiliation and anger that smolder in ways incommunicable to whites.

Segregation placed American blacks in the U.S. equivalent of that filthy African harbor.

It takes bravery, and perhaps an unusual black-white vantage point, to navigate these places where hurt is profound, incomprehension the rule, just as it takes courage to say, as Obama did, that black "anger is real; it is powerful; and to simply wish it away, to condemn it without understanding its roots, only serves to widen the chasm of misunderstanding that exists between the races."

Progress, since the Civil Rights Movement, or since apartheid, has assuaged the wounds of race but not closed them. To carry my part of shame is also to carry a clue to the vortexes of rancor for which Obama has uncovered words.

I understand the rage of his former pastor, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, however abhorrent its expression at times. I admire Obama for saying: "I can no more disown him than I can disown the black community."

Honesty feels heady right now. For seven years, we have lived with the arid, us-against-them formulas of Bush's menial mind, with the result that the nuanced exploration of America's hardest subject is almost giddying. Can it be that a human being, like Wright, or like Obama's grandmother, is actually inhabited by ambiguities? Can an inquiring mind actually explore the half-shades of truth?

Yes. It. Can. ..."


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Mar 08 - 01:51 PM

I'm pretty sure the "Guest, Guest" and "Guest, guest" in this thread aren't the same as the one here.

If I'm wrong, Gigi, let us know. I hope I'm not.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 20 Mar 08 - 04:57 PM

From another columnist in the Times (NYT):

"Barack Obama this week gave the best political speech since John Kennedy talked about his Catholicism in Houston in 1960, and it derived power from something most unusual in modern politics: an acknowledgment of complexity, nuance and legitimate grievances on many sides. It was not a sound bite, but a symphony."


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Mar 08 - 05:06 PM

A have to see Barak Obama Cartoon: http://www.rense.com/1.imagesH/stooge_dees.jpg

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Mar 08 - 05:21 PM

Keep yer eyes on the media, folks...

Today's new cycle will be all about recent ABC polls that shows McWar takin' Obama or Clinton... That will over shadow the speech"es" that Obama has made this week and there's a reason for this... What the media won't be saying too loudly is that poll was taken close to a week ago when they were busy runnin' Rev Wright soundbites 24/7...

But I'll guarentee that this poll get plenty of media coverage tonight...

BTW, it was also taken before McWar showed that he didn't know squat about the Iraq war...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 20 Mar 08 - 06:14 PM

YEah, they're already spinning that scam, Bobert. It'd be nice if they included all the necessary data.

Sheeshe.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 20 Mar 08 - 07:36 PM

Hollywood's view on the Obama Comeback Speech.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 21 Mar 08 - 09:09 AM

Gov. Bill Richardson of New Mexico, who sought to become the nation's first Hispanic president this year, plans to endorse Senator Barack Obama for the Democratic nomination on Friday at a campaign event in Oregon.

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Governor Bill Richardson of New Mexico called Senator Barack Obama at a debate in Des Moines, Iowa, in Dec. 2007.

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Mr. Richardson, a former congressman and energy secretary in the Clinton administration, dropped out of the Democratic race in January after finishing behind Mr. Obama and Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton in the first nominating contests in Iowa and New Hampshire. Since then, he has been aggressively courted by his former rivals.

Mr. Obama's address on race in Philadelphia on Tuesday appeared to sway Mr. Richardson, who sent word to the senator that he was inspired and impressed by the speech, in which Mr. Obama called for an end to the "racial stalemate" that has divided Americans for decades. Aides said the endorsement was locked down over the following two days.

In a statement, Mr. Richardson hailed Mr. Obama's judgment and ability to be commander-in-chief — qualities that Mrs. Clinton has called into question in recent weeks on the campaign trail.

"I believe he is the kind of once-in-a-lifetime leader that can bring our nation together and restore America's moral leadership in the world," Mr. Richardson said in the statement, provided by the Obama campaign early Friday morning.

"As a presidential candidate, I know full well Senator Obama's unique moral ability to inspire the American people to confront our urgent challenges at home and abroad in a spirit of bipartisanship and reconciliation."

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Charley Noble
Date: 21 Mar 08 - 09:55 AM

Amos-

This is certainly a significant endorsement, given Richardson's long record working with the Clintons, and the timing couldn't be better.

Long ago I had posted that Richardson should head the list of vice presidential candidates to run with Obama. Maybe that's part of the campaign wisdom as well.

Wonder where Edwards is at this point, with a North Carolina primary coming up?

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 21 Mar 08 - 09:59 AM

I think Obama/Richardson would be a very interesting administration.
Compared to Obama/Clinton it could be the difference between life and death, methinks.



A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 21 Mar 08 - 10:57 AM

PEggy Noonan, WSJ:

"...The primary rhetorical virtue of the speech can be found in two words, endemic and Faulkner. Endemic is the kind of word political consultants don't let politicians use because 72% of Americans don't understand it. This lowest-common-denominator thinking, based on dizzy polling, has long degraded American discourse. When Obama said Mr. Wright wrongly encouraged "a view that sees white racism as endemic," everyone understood. Because they're not, actually, stupid. As for Faulkner -- well, this was an American politician quoting William Faulkner: "The past isn't dead and buried. In fact, it isn't even past." This is a thought, an interesting one, which means most current politicians would never share it.

The speech assumed the audience was intelligent. This was a compliment, and I suspect was received as a gift. It also assumed many in the audience were educated. I was grateful for this, as the educated are not much addressed in American politics.

Here I point out an aspect of the speech that may have a beneficial impact on current rhetoric. It is assumed now that a candidate must say a silly, boring line -- "And families in Michigan matter!" or "What I stand for is affordable quality health care!" -- and the audience will clap. The line and the applause make, together, the eight-second soundbite that will be used tonight on the news, and seen by the people. This has been standard politico-journalistic procedure for 20 years.

Mr. Obama subverted this in his speech. He didn't have applause lines. He didn't give you eight seconds of a line followed by clapping. He spoke in full and longish paragraphs that didn't summon applause. This left TV producers having to use longer-than-usual soundbites in order to capture his meaning. And so the cuts of the speech you heard on the news were more substantial and interesting than usual, which made the coverage of the speech better. People who didn't hear it but only saw parts on the news got a real sense of what he'd said.

If Hillary or John McCain said something interesting, they'd get more than an eight-second cut too. But it works only if you don't write an applause-line speech. It works only if you write a thinking speech.

They should try it.

"


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 21 Mar 08 - 11:23 AM

SeattlePi:

"A New York Times news story called it "an extraordinary moment" and "what may be the most significant public discussion of race in decades."

The Washington Post called it "an extraordinary moment of truth-telling." A Boston Globe editorial said, "Obama took the opportunity to engage the question of race in America, starting a bold, uncomfortably honest conversation."

Our front-page headline in the P-I soberly and matter-of-factly stated, "Obama confronts nation's racial issues."

But the overall tone of media coverage and commentary, both print and broadcast, was giddy and euphoric, with a few dissenting voices that wanted Obama to issue a stronger denunciation and to further distance himself from his former pastor and his church.

Like many others, I was inspired by Obama's speech and found joy and admiration in his words and delivery. If it starts a national conversation that begins to address and heal all that defines our racial divide, I'll be thrilled to say I underestimated its potential."

The writer then goes on to recite all his misgivings. His argument is that campaign speeches rarely provide really historic fodder.

PErhaps he has forgotten the Gettysburg address, spoken during Lincoln's second campaign.

I am continuously surprised by how badly the American blogosphere, and the media in general, miss the point of that speech. Either they are dull-witted, or too ignorant to see where it scales the span of American history, or they are informed by second hand soundbites without context. THey carp at him for mentioning his grandmother, for not decapitating the pastor, and for myriad other faults, real or imagined, while ignoring the bag of gold dust he has just laid before them. It is shameful.


A


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 21 Mar 08 - 02:39 PM

The byline on this excerpt from the WaPo is a great typo. I didn't know there was such a place.

"Updated 1:42 p.m.
By Jonathan Weisman
POTLAND, Ore. -- At a thunderous rally in Memorial Colliseum here, New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson endorsed Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) for president, appealing for peace in the Democratic Party and hailing the moment as historic.

"Your candidacy is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for our country, and you are a once-in-a-lifetime leader," Richardson declared at Obama's side. "You will make every American proud to be an American."

The moment was a calculated effort to try to put to rest the increasingly divisive fight between Obama and Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.) for the Democratic nomination. Both campaigns had assiduously courted Richardson, one of the nation's leading Latino political figures, ever since he dropped out of the presidential contest.

Richardson made his choice not when it could have mattered most politically, before the tight contest in Texas, but at a time of spiraling accusations and counter-accusations between the Clinton and Obama camps.

Richardson praised Clinton as a candidate and a leader, and he hailed the achievements of President Bill Clinton's administration, in which he served as ambassador to the United Nations and energy secretary.

But, he added, "It is time for Democrats to stop fighting amongst ourselves and to prepare for the tough fight we have against John McCain."

"

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 21 Mar 08 - 03:10 PM

"Senator Barack Obama has three new ads up in Pennsylvania, his first on television, following two radio spots earlier this week. Senator Hillary Clinton, who leads in polls in the state, has not run any ads in the state so far.

Mr. Obama's first spot, which runs 60 seconds, is called "Opportunity." Made specifically for Pennsylvania, this spot is biographical and underscores the Obama campaign's sense that he still needs to introduce himself to the state's voters.

The second, running 30 seconds, is called "Toughest" and describes him as having passed the "toughest ethics law yet" against lobbyists and special interests.

The third spot,also running 30 seconds and called "Carry," refers to bipartisan legislation that Mr. Obama "carried" in the state senate in Illinois.

All the ads are running in the state's six major media markets and come as both campaigns are stepping up already-ferocious registration drives to meet Monday's deadline, by which time voters must be registered as Democrats to vote in the April 22 primary.
So far, more than 100,000 new voters have registered and an additional 58,000 have switched their party affiliations to Democratic, overwhelming local registration offices.

The ads, all of which emphasize that Mr. Obama has fought special interests and can work across party lines for bipartisan purposes, will augment the final registration push this weekend."...(New York Times)

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 22 Mar 08 - 01:30 PM

CNN reports:

In the interview Friday, Richardson also said he called Hillary Clinton Thursday to inform her of his decision to back Obama, a conversation he described as "painful."

"It was painful and it wasn't easy," (Richardson) said. "I've spoken to others who have had that same conversation and they say at the end, itÕs not all that pleasant. "The former Democratic presidential candidate declined to elaborate further on his conversation with Clinton.Last month, Chris Dodd Ñ another former presidential candidate who decided to endorse Obama last month Ñ said he had a "not comfortable" conversation with Clinton informing her of the news.

Also in the interview Friday, Richardson said he ultimately decided to back Obama because the Illinois senator has "something special." "I think that Sen. Obama has something special,Ó explained Richardson. ÒSomething that can bring internationally AmericaÕs prestige back, that can deal with the race issue as he did so eloquently last week, that can deal with the domestic issues in a bipartisan way."

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 22 Mar 08 - 02:38 PM

Amos,

Here are Richardson's own words about these matters.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/23750513#23750513

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 22 Mar 08 - 02:41 PM

"Richardson's biggest assist, though, was that he took sides in a stalled Democratic Party argument over delegates. In the numbers vs. narrative debate, the New Mexico governor backed the view that because Obama has an insurmountable numerical lead among pledged delegates, the nomination has effectively been decided. There is no story Clinton can tell to convince superdelegates to reverse that mathematical fact, in his view. "My great affection and admiration for Hillary Clinton and President Bill Clinton will never waver. It is time, however, for Democrats to stop fighting amongst ourselves and to prepare for the tough fight we will face against John McCain in the fall."" (from Slate)

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 22 Mar 08 - 02:51 PM

Link to Jack's reference--Bill Richardson talking about his endorsement (for those who don't want to be bothered to cut and paste). :D

Good talk, thanks Jack.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 22 Mar 08 - 03:01 PM

"This week, Barack Obama gave one of the most important speeches about race many of us have ever heard. And, whatever you think of his candidacy, on the merits, this speech was anything but soaring, empty rhetoric. In the way of all truly important political addresses, it reached beyond comforting blah-blah (America É patriotism É change) and challenged us with truths we'd rather not contemplate. Instead of claiming to be a victim of race politics in America, Obama asked the victims on both sidesÑwhite and blackÑto acknowledge that there are victims on both sides."

This essay in Slate goes on to pose the question of what Hillary might say if she were to give a parallel speech on gender -- and why she never will.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 22 Mar 08 - 03:06 PM

The closer from that essay deserves citing:

"One of the most laudable things about Obama is that he always elects to rise above the politics of victimization. One of the most troubling things about Hillary Clinton is that she is never above cashing in on it."


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Little Hawk
Date: 22 Mar 08 - 03:07 PM

It was an astounding speech, Amos. I have waited most of my life to hear an American politician speak the way Obama did that day.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 23 Mar 08 - 12:53 AM

Story behind the story: The Clinton myth
By JIM VANDEHEI & MIKE ALLEN | 3/21/08 1:32 PM EST         Text Size:   

Clinton's campaign rests increasingly on a game of make-believe.

One big fact has largely been lost in the recent coverage of the Democratic presidential race: Hillary Rodham Clinton has virtually no chance of winning.

Her own campaign acknowledges there is no way that she will finish ahead in pledged delegates. That means the only way she wins is if Democratic superdelegates are ready to risk a backlash of historic proportions from the partyÕs most reliable constituency.

Unless Clinton is able to at least win the primary popular vote Ñ which also would take nothing less than an electoral miracle Ñ and use that achievement to pressure superdelegates, she has only one scenario for victory. An African-American opponent and his backers would be told that, even though he won the contest with voters, the prize is going to someone else.

People who think that scenario is even remotely likely are living on another planet. ...

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 23 Mar 08 - 01:53 PM

Senator Barack ObamaÕs campaign has gotten some good news Ñ one of several bits of good news in recent days: a new Gallup tracking poll shows him on the rebound after the firestorm over his pastorÕs comments and ObamaÕs heavily covered speech on race:

Barack Obama has quickly made up the deficit he faced with Hillary Clinton earlier this week, with the latest Gallup Poll Daily tracking update on Democratic presidential nomination preferences showing 48% of Democratic voters favoring Obama and 45% Clinton.

(Gallup Poll)

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 23 Mar 08 - 04:55 PM

James Carville told the New York Times that Richardson, a former member of Bill Clinton's Cabinet, had committed "an act of betrayal," adding that it "came right around the anniversary of the day when Judas sold out [Jesus] for 30 pieces of silver, so I think the timing is appropriate, if ironic."

"I'm not going to get in the gutter like that," Richardson responded on "Fox News Sunday." "And you know, that's typical of many of the people around Senator Clinton. They think they have a sense of entitlement to the presidency."

"I am very loyal to the Clintons," said Richardson, but he said he wanted something beyond "Bush, Clinton, Bush, Clinton." "You know, what about the rest of us?" he asked.

He called for "a new generation of leadership," and added, "I think Obama represents this new change of not just bipartisanship, but bringing people together, bringing races together, bringing America's role in the world to be respected again."

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 23 Mar 08 - 07:03 PM

From the Int Heral Trib:

"Obama, in an interview, said that "a lot of these old labels don't apply anymore."

He said he was a progressive and a pragmatist, eager to tackle the big issues like health care and convinced that the Democrats could rally independents and disaffected Republicans to their agenda.

Only then, he said, could the party achieve what it has so rarely won in modern presidential elections - a mandate to do big things.

"Senator Clinton's argument in this campaign has really been that you can't change the electoral map," he said. "That it's a static map and we are inalterably divided, so we've got to eke out a victory and then try to govern more competently than George Bush has.

"My argument is that if that's what we're settling for, after seven or eight years of disastrous policies on the part of the Bush administration, then we're not going to deliver on the big changes that are needed.""

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Ron Davies
Date: 23 Mar 08 - 10:22 PM

Look at that "30 pieces of silver" quote by Carville. And he was serious! Obviously anyone who leaves St Hillary is the worst kind of treacherous scum. Where have we heard this sort of attitude before? How about the NY NOW head remark that Ted Kennedy's endorsement of Obama was "the worst possible betrayal"?

Looks like Richardson was right when he said that attitude is "typical of many of the people around Senator Clinton. They think they have a sense of entitlement to the presidency".

In case we still needed another reason to vote for Obama, that sounds like a pretty good one.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Riginslinger
Date: 24 Mar 08 - 08:38 AM

So, is Richardson angling for a VP spot? That's what he seemed to be running for in the first place.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: beardedbruce
Date: 24 Mar 08 - 09:41 AM

Note to clones: Many editorials are posted for a limited time, then are removed. The only way to see them at a later is to post them here.


Washington Post:

Democrats' Obama Dilemma

By Robert D. Novak
Monday, March 24, 2008; Page A13

Barack Obama's speech last week, hastily prepared to extinguish the firestorm over the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, won critical praise for style and substance but failed politically. By elevating the question of race in America, the front-running Democratic presidential candidate has deepened the dilemma created by his campaign's success against the party establishment's anointed choice, Hillary Clinton.

In rejecting the racist views of his longtime spiritual mentor but not disowning him, Obama has unwittingly enhanced his image as the African American candidate -- as opposed to being just a remarkable candidate who happens to be black. That poses a dilemma for unelected superdelegates, who as professional politicians will settle the contest because neither Obama nor Clinton can win enough elected delegates to be nominated.

Superdelegates, though they were inclined toward Clinton as recently as three months ago, now flinch at the idea of rejecting Obama. They fear antagonizing African Americans, who have become the hard-core Democratic base. But what if national polls continue their post-Wright trend and show Obama trailing both Clinton and Republican John McCain in popular support? The Obama strategists' hope of reversing that trend depends on whether his eloquent race speech, which he continued to reprise on the campaign trail all week, can overcome videos exposing his pastor's demagoguery.

Thanks to proportional representation, which was enacted as part of radical Democratic reform a generation ago, no candidate can replicate George McGovern's nomination victory in 1972 by capturing winner-take-all primaries. It is not possible for Clinton to score large enough victories in the remaining nine primaries (starting with Pennsylvania on April 22) to move ahead of Obama in delegates or the accumulated popular vote. Those goals became unreachable with the apparent Clinton failure to force a revote in Michigan and Florida.

That means Clinton must convince superdelegates that Obama is not electable -- validating this judgment by a neutral Democratic leader: "It was a great speech, but it cannot overcome the powerful [Wright] video." Since Obama's race declaration, he has fallen behind McCain nationally in various polls and trails by as much as eight percentage points in Rasmussen tracking.

In head-to-head tests with Clinton, he is two points behind in Rasmussen tracking and has slipped in other surveys, though he is still leading. Polls in Pennsylvania taken before Obama's speech Tuesday showed that Clinton's narrow lead had expanded to double digits, and private surveys since then indicate the margin is growing.

To combat that, the Obama high command privately contacted superdelegates Friday to report that his Pennsylvania and Indiana polling numbers have "come back" (without specifying by how much). Obama agents are also trying to minimize the distinctiveness of his embrace with Wright by distributing photos and letters showing Bill Clinton's contacts with the Chicago preacher in 1998, when the president was wooing friendly clergymen in his campaign against impeachment.

The problem for Obama is that furor over Wright has reached beyond voters normally interested in political controversies. Over the past week, I have been asked repeatedly by non-political people about Obama's connection with Wright's tirades. In the process, Obama's political persona has been altered -- transformed from Harvard Law Review to South Side activist, as described by one friendly Chicago politician.

The Clinton campaign has shied away from official comment about Wright. But in off-the-record talks with superdelegates, Clinton's agents claim that the connection casts doubt on Obama's electability. Furthermore, one Democratic operative who is inclined toward Obama warns that the issue will be raised in much harsher terms by Republicans during the general election campaign. In last week's Clinton conference call with the media, senior adviser Harold Ickes questioned "whether Senator Obama is going to be able to stand up to the Republican attack machine."

The consensus among knowledgeable Democrats is that Obama will win over enough superdelegates to clinch the nomination before the national convention in August, partly because of fear about the consequences if he does not. But one longtime associate said this of the Clintons in private conversation last week: "They will do anything -- anything -- to get nominated." That reminder deepens the Democratic dilemma.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: CarolC
Date: 24 Mar 08 - 09:55 AM

I'm still not an Obama supporter (although that could change), but I have two things to say in response to that Novak piece. The first is that his poll numbers are out of date. Obama has largely erased the losses he saw after the Wright thing first broke, and before he gave his speech. The second is this: Last night I saw Peggy Noonan talking about Obama with the same sort of broody glow she used to exhibit when talking about Reagan, and she had nothing but very positive things to say about him. If we can see something like that happen, I think Obama can attract a cadre of "Obama Republicans" in the same way that Reagan attracted "Reagan Democrats".

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Riginslinger
Date: 24 Mar 08 - 10:20 AM

If a Reagan supporter is heaping praise on Obama, I'm voting for McCain.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 24 Mar 08 - 10:44 AM

Peggy Noonan is one helluva speechwriter, whoever she syupports, I'll say that for her. SO maybe its just professional admiration.

Rig, ole buddy, your proposition makes absolutely no sense at all.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: CarolC
Date: 24 Mar 08 - 11:19 AM

Interesting position to take, Riginslinger. I suspect, however, that if you didn't like Reagan, you're not going to like McCain, either.

I think the kinds of Republicans who are gravitating toward Obama are the kind who want to be inspired. I certainly don't agree with their assessment that Reagan was inspirational, and I also don't think that's the best basis upon which to select a President. But I do think that this will help Obama win a broad range of support for his candidacy if he is the Democratic nominee.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Riginslinger
Date: 24 Mar 08 - 11:42 AM

"Rig, ole buddy, your proposition makes absolutely no sense at all."


                     I know, but in my book there's nothing more obscene than Reagan. Besides, this is American politics where nothing much makes any sense anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 24 Mar 08 - 12:01 PM

If Reagan was obscene, Rig, McCain will be Obscene Redux Ad ABsurdum -- the same deterioration of mind, genial soft-shoe, militariastic mindset, and ignoral on economic theory.

Let's at least put someone in who has the agility and clarity of thought to think things through with some rationality. Preferably, someone without Hill's baggage.

Why not start acting for the best outcome you can?



A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 24 Mar 08 - 12:15 PM

A respected conservative commentator endorses Obama:

"...Endorsing Obama
Today I endorse Barack Obama for president of the United States. I believe him to be a person of integrity, intelligence and genuine good will. I take him at his word that he wants to move the nation beyond its religious and racial divides and to return United States to that company of nations committed to human rights. I do not know if his earlier life experience is sufficient for the challenges of the presidency that lie ahead. I doubt we know this about any of the men or women we might select. It likely depends upon the serendipity of the events that cannot be foreseen. I do have confidence that the Senator will cast his net widely in search of men and women of diverse, open-minded views and of superior intellectual qualities to assist him in the wide range of responsibilities that he must superintend.

This endorsement may be of little note or consequence, except perhaps that it comes from an unlikely source: namely, a former constitutional legal counsel to two Republican presidents. The endorsement will likely supply no strategic advantage equivalent to that represented by the very helpful accolades the Senator has received from many of high stature and accomplishment, including most recently, from Governor Bill Richardson. Nevertheless, it is important to be said publicly in a public forum in order that it be understood. It is not arrived at without careful thought and some difficulty.
..."

From COnvictions in Slate, about 2/3s down the page.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 24 Mar 08 - 08:01 PM

Rasmussen national polls overview:

"This week, the early numbers seem to slightly favor Obama. In polling through Sunday, , Obama held a four-point lead over the GOP hopeful while Clinton trailed the Arizona Senator by a couple of points. Clinton also has a much higher percentage of the population committed to voting against her than either Obama or McCain.
However, those early numbers do not adequately answer the question of which Democrat would be more competitive."

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Emma B
Date: 24 Mar 08 - 08:11 PM

Amos that link seems to be early February!
I posted yesterdays here

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 24 Mar 08 - 08:14 PM

My apologies -- the above entry was from the 7th. Obama has not qwuite caught up with Hillary after the Wright kafluffle, but is gaining.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 24 Mar 08 - 08:55 PM

Ewen MacAskill in Washington
The Guardian, Tuesday March 25 2008 Article history
Barack Obama gained a boost yesterday when the first poll taken since his make-or-break speech last week on race put him back ahead of Hillary Clinton. A nationwide Gallup poll put Obama on 48% to Clinton's 45%. The same poll last week, taken at the height of the row over Obama's minister in Chicago, Jeremiah Wright, gave Clinton her first lead for weeks, 49% to his 42%.

---

Sorry about that.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: toadfrog
Date: 24 Mar 08 - 09:49 PM

If you read Peggy Noonan's piece all the way through, she ends up saying words to the effect of "Obama would be so great, if only he didn't have all those creepy liberal ideas." Which is sort of the way I feel about McCain, only in reverse.

I am all for Obama, especially as Edwards is no longer around. I hope I'm right. Just bear this in mind. Adlai Stevenson also gave wonderful, thoughtful speeches. But the first thing a president has to be is forceful. He/she has to have the ability to make people do what he/she wants them to do. I hope Obama has that ability, but I don't know it. Do you?

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Riginslinger
Date: 24 Mar 08 - 10:08 PM

It's funny you'd mention Adlai Stevenson. There are some similarities between McCain and Dwight David Eisenhower.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Azizi
Date: 24 Mar 08 - 10:09 PM

Philanthropist Theresa Heinz Kerry* wrote an op ed in the Pittsburgh Post Gazette that expresses her strong endorsement of Senator Barack Obama:

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08083/867043-109.stm

Here's an excerpt of that long op ed:

Sunday Forum: It's Pennsylvania's turn - vote for Obama
Barack Obama understands working families, offers realistic proposals to help them and has the vision to re-inspire America, says philanthropist TERESA HEINZ
Sunday, March 23, 2008

"...Mr. Obama's work taught him what happens to families and communities when factories shut down and jobs go overseas. He knows firsthand the devastation and despair the global economy can bring -- and how important hope is in overcoming setbacks and getting lives and neighborhoods back on track.

But there's more to Mr. Obama than hope. There's a practical approach to economic recovery. It starts with a tax cut of up to $1,000 -- for middle-class families, not for millionaires. And Mr. Obama believes that there can be no "free" trade without fair trade. He's committed to fixing NAFTA, so that it works for American workers. For those whose jobs are threatened by foreign trade, Mr. Obama supports reforms to the Trade Adjustment Assistance program so that workers can be retrained before they lose their jobs.

Mr. Obama's health-care plan will cover every child in America, and help families afford the same kind of insurance he and I both have, by giving them access to the same plan that covers Congress. He'll simplify paperwork and ensure no family can be turned down, regardless of pre-existing conditions. As I saw in Sen. Heinz, and as I see in my husband, Sen. John Kerry, a personal connection to working families drives Mr. Obama in his passion to get working Americans and seniors access to affordable insurance...

In the bicentennial year of 1976, Pennsylvania took a chance on a smart, hard-working and optimistic young congressman named John Heinz and made him their senator. They made a wise choice. He worked across the aisle to tackle the tough problems of the 1970s and 1980s -- saving Social Security, reforming nursing home care, demanding fair trade, offering new solutions to environmental problems. He proved that, when you love people and put their interest ahead of politics you can make a real difference.

That is the spirit I see in Barack Obama and why I look forward to voting to make him our 44th president.

The "audacity of hope" means a vote for change. Vote for Barack."

-snip-

* Teresa Heinz is very well respected in the Pittsburgh area. She is the chairman of the Heinz Family Philanthropies. The Heinz Foundations provide a wide range of funding in community service areas including health care, education, human services, and cultural programming.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Ron Davies
Date: 24 Mar 08 - 10:49 PM

Rig--

Nothing makes any sense in American politics? You're certainly doing your best to ensure that goal. Well done, good job.

Fortunately there are a fair number of voters willing to think. Too bad you're not among them.   You might want to try it, just for a change.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 24 Mar 08 - 11:00 PM

The Sidney Morning Herald cuts through the noise, counts the delegates and the money, and concludes that Obama is firmly positioned to win his nomination.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Ron Davies
Date: 24 Mar 08 - 11:01 PM

Similarities between Ike and McCain?   A few problems. McCain didn't lead the US to victory in war. You might note it's actually the victorious generals who may win elections--and they don't always win--see Winfield Scott.

And there was a great dissatisfaction with Truman in 1952--a mood to throw the administration's party out. Funny thing, there is that same mood now--not exactly boding well for McCain. Especially as it becomes obvious that his prescription for economic ills is tax cuts, and a bit of retraining. It seems likely the electorate will want more than McCain's base will ever allow him to offer.

But, by all means, Rig, if you have some actual evidence--for the first time ever-- please share it. And if you mean McCain's status as a war hero, that will play considerably better against Hillary--still burdened with the 60s-- (and the 90's) partly through her own stupidity--e.g. Woodstock museum---than it ever will with Obama.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: beardedbruce
Date: 25 Mar 08 - 07:51 AM

""Obama would be so great, if only he didn't have all those creepy liberal ideas." "

This is about what I think.

Obama is the first Democrat in a long time to run on something, rather than run AGAINST something. That is why I give him some chance of winning.


While I disagree with WHAT he will be doing, I at least have the feeling that he will be doing it because he thinks it is best for the nation, rather than just a means of enriching himslf.

Does not mean I will vote for him, but I can respect him for that.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Riginslinger
Date: 25 Mar 08 - 08:31 AM

Ron - If you want to check your history, you will find that when Eisenhower first decided to get into politics there was some indecision as to whether he would be a Democrat or a Republican. He was a real middle of the road kind of guy. That's where I think he shares some values with McCain.

                         In fact, if you really try, you can find a statement by Eisenhower: "Too far to the left, and too far to the right of the middle of the road are the gutters."

                         I think you're finding yourself in the gutter.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 25 Mar 08 - 10:20 AM

I don't quite understand what "all those creepy liberal ideas" refers to. I can't think of any idea he has voiced that was creepy. Personal responsibility? Working to form a more perfect union? RIsing above racial divisions? Redesigning how government works? Are these the ones being referenced here? If not, which?

Or is this just a slanderous exagerrated generalization?


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views on Obama
From: Amos
Date: 25 Mar 08 - 10:38 AM

Now 1400 posts have come
To sound Barack Obama's drum,
Folks in their workclothes and their nighties
FOlks in power-suits, sleek and mighty,
Folks in jeans and in pajamas
All gonna vote for Barack Obama.